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Off TopicUltimate Guide to Getting Out of Depression (self.TheRedPill)

submitted by KemalTenebris

Summary: I wrote the ultimate guide of getting out of depression. I have been there and beat it, now giving back to the community. This article was published on Medium before here and doesn't have the TRP lingo, but is still based on concrete, red pilled ideas. I hope it'll help.
Body: Depression is the modern plague, there is no question to that. I have been experienced it along with anxiety for 4,5 years. Worst fucking 50 months of my life. Best fucking 50 months of my life.
If you are also struggling with it, don’t worry and relax, just read. This is not another “Think positive!” or “Lincoln had it, too! Even Churchill had it and called it his black dog!” kind of shit. This guide is crafted by a person like you; who struggled with depression. Who was on the verge of losing his fucking mind, at least he felt that way. Who carefully thought about the best way to commit suicide. Who wanted to be born again and shape his life from scratch. I am here, I am a person like you. I know what you’ve been through and know the way out. This guide is to help you out of that hole. So, let’s start.
I don’t want to waste time explaining why depression happens and so on.If you ask me, there are two types of depression:
1) Depression caused by something we know about.
2)Depression caused by something that we “don’t know” about.
First one is basically things like loss of a parent, being sexually abused, losing job, losing a friend, breaking up etc. Things that you can address. This guide will help you on that, but not to the full extent. I recommend getting professional help on this one. Although, you can improve drastically by applying you’ve learnt here.
And there is this “existential” kind of depression. Depression that you don’t know why exactly it exists. It somehow found you and got you, at least for now. Life feels empty, things are stupid, people are hell and so on. You feel like you are a pilgrim who’s on an unknown quest. You aren’t able to feel any sense of direction in life or any goals, dreams even. Getting professional help on this one is also recommended, but this guide will mostly help you on this kind of depression. Therapy + this guide will +95% solve your problems.
I have to tell you that, there is a way out.
But you have to apply what you will learn here.
And believe me, there is no magic pill, you’ll realize.
The magic pill is this method itself.
I can give you the blueprint, but can not execute it for you.
You have to take the control of your life. And control comes with responsiblity. The good thing is, these two also lead to a life of freedom. A life that’s free from unnecessary shame, fear, anxiety, depression, unhappiness.
Approaching the methods here like every other article on depression you’ve read, any other video you watched about it or question you asked on forums, I promise, will not work. I want you to be open-minded. Approach everything in this guide as if you are seeing them for the first time and actually apply these. I promise, there is no way out if you don’t. There are two categories of things that you are going to be doing:
MUST: *exercising (p) *diet (p) *meditation (m/s) *output (m) *sleep (p/s/m) *relaxation (p/s/m)
RECOMMENDED: *socializing (p/m) *personal story (m/s) *personal projects (m) *goals (p/m) *actions (p/s/m)
p: physical | s: spiritual | m: mental
These are your loyal servants. They will never let you down, if you also don’t let them down. Musts are 10/10 important and recommendeds are 8.5/10. Don’t get overwhelmed or stress yourself, we will figure something out. I was like you before, I know how it feels. And since I am also a lazy-ass guy, I have also developed a system for these to work and you will not even need extra willpower of energy for it if you take your steps right.
Let’s go one by one.
Exercise: Yeah there are thousands of benefits etc as you know. But you still don’t care about that because you’re actually too comfortable living like this. I don’t want you to run 10 miles a day or spend 2 hours in the gym. Only this; 4 days a week, you will be walking for at least 30 minutes. You don’t need to sweat or put real effort into this. Just wear your earphones and put on an audiobook and fucking walk. Come on, you know you can do that. It seems arbitrary but is a must (10/10), don’t forget!
Diet: Diet is really important and have played a big part on my recovery. You don’t need any crazy caloric deficits or any fancy supplements, just this: Track what you are eating, and subtract low quality, life shortening shit out of that. You know what they are. Just admit it. Also, if you have serious weight issues, go see a doctor and work on losing weight. Body fat percentage plays a serious part on your physical and mental health, take my word on that. So, you got exercise and diet figured out. Start small and don’t rush yourself. Do these, or any other thing I recommend will have very arbitrary effects on you, honestly. These are just stepping stones. Don’t forget, improvement is also a necessity, so after you keep doing these for some weeks, take the next step and configure those two again; join a gym, go to the next level on dieting.
Meditation: This one is a BIG one, trust me. It is actually easy! You have to do nothing? — ?as a depressed person, this is something you are an expert on, right? Download Calm or Headspace, or just search “mindfulness meditation” on YouTube. You will love it.
Output: Depression makes us passive, so all we do is to consume and in the end we just don’t do anything. Nature is all about balance, and it is important to balance input and output. I want you to think and note down the things that you spend most of the time doing. You realized it is mostly rubbish, right? Doesn’t matter. Think of ways of creating output from those. For example, I used to lurk on reddit for hours? — ?especially subreddits like entrepreneurs, guitar, getmotivated and so on. The problem was, I’ve never created a company along that time with all the things I’ve learnt. I’ve seldom practised guitar with all the techniques I was taught. So, if you are reading a lot on photography, fucking take some pictures, for yourself. You will spend at least half an hour doing this a day. The more you consume, the more you create.
Sleep: Sleep is really important, that’s why it’s listed under the MUST category. You have to figure it out for yourself, but basic premise is: sleep at least 5 sleep cycles? — ?which is 7,5h/day, go to bed early and get up early, no screens/artificial lights 2 hours before sleeping.
Relaxation: Relaxation is something that we forget to do. After you put all the effort you have into something, you have to relax? — ?remember, nature and balance and all of that? Listen to your inner self and relax when you need. Just don’t waste time relaxing for extra periods of time or use it to procrastinate.
Socializing: Friends and family, meet and spend fun time with them at least 2 days a week. If you have no friends or family, just go to a crowded coffeeshop and spend time there working on your stuff. Be with people and don’t shy away from asking things you think are interesting or having conversations etc. Humans are social animals and as long as you deny this fact because you’re still able to somehow survive without them thanks to the economical system we have in the modern world, you are going to suffer. Don’t suffer.
Personal Story: Get a good journal or any kind of notebook and start to write your own story. Write the old you, the new you, the current you. Take daily notes and share your feelings with that. Sounds gay? It is. That’s what makes it good. Carry this little friend around and use it however you want. Important thing is to capture your life and how you’re doing, all the progress etc. Don’t forget, 8.5/10.
Personal Projects: Invent your own small/medium sized projects. For example, one time I decided to analyze a blog’s method of creating viral posts and built a schema around this idea of finding how they do that. I learnt very basic Python for it, scraped datas, worked on some small details and in the end I knew what kind of process they used and it was great fun. Just find something you’re curious about and let it take you somewhere else and don’t procrastinate!
Goals: Goals are important. Very simple: Set 6 goals for each day from the night before, sort them in order of importance/urgency from 1 to 6 and your main goal is to complete all of them until next day. Very, very important, and thankfully simple!
Actions: Do you see a pattern here? Nearly the whole guide is all about doing something, taking the control over your life, changing your point of focus from consuming to producing. Actions are priceless. Every day give yourself a challenge, and take action on it. But it has to be a challenging one. For example, if you want to read books but get distracted or “can’t create time for it” (a big, big lie? — ?there is no “time creation”, only priorities) take up a 80–100pg book and finish it in a single day. Or a better formula, do something that scares you everyday.
So, these were the ways of taking control over our lives. If you do all of these together, you’ll start to see huge improvements in no time. And I have some techniques to make it work. I know this is a big article, but take your time and don’t forget to take notes! Have a clear idea of it in your mind.
#1- Self-Talk: Every negative pattern you have in your life is related to your self-talk, that dialogue-ish monologue in your head. I don’t want you to fucking repeat “I am awesome!”s or anything like that. This is simple and works like magic (well, because it is): Everytime you have a negative thought, block it. Kill it before it reaches your subconscious. You will be able to sense that and do that easily after a few practises. If it really bothers you by repeating and you can’t kill it, which rarely happens but is a good sign that you’ve detected something, turn it to an actionable thought. Example; “It was very rude of me to yell at my father. I wish I didn’t, I am a fucking bad son and don’t deserve his love. Fuck me.” -> “I can go to him and apologize for it, and can be extra nice for a period of time. I yelled at him but won’t do it again, because I see how it feels after I do. Fuck it, everyone makes mistakes.”
#2- The Sims Technique: We all know the game, right? Great technique for discipline. Whenever you “don’t feel like it” and know what to do, stop being the person who is in the order. Stop thinking like the person you are right now, and go into the “God Mode”: “Going to the gym right now.” and fucking go there! It is really easy and practical for beginners. After sometime, you won’t even need this, believe me.
#3- Stress Management: You have to manage your stress. Meditation, proper diet and exercise along with relaxation will help you with that. Also, find things that make you forget of your daily life and do it whenever you need. For me, it is playing the guitar or the drums. It should be something productive, because we all know that pornography & masturbation also works for it but what it leads you.. you don’t want that. Writing about what you’re stressed and then creating solutions for it also works great. You will realize 2/3 of the things you worry about actually aren’t in your control or you don’t really need to worry about them at all.
#4- Nutrients: Proper diet is really important, but I also recommend getting a blood test done. Especially men have problems with Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Zinc and Magnesium. You can find multivitamins for it but I don’t really recomment it. Get B12 shots done, really worth it. Vitamin D pills or ampuls are easy to find. ZMA supplement contains both Zinc and Magnesium, it is perfect for men. Also, you can eat really carefully to get these nutrients. Depression is about chemical imbalance and these chemicals works perfectly for it. Please try these for a month or so, and if you don’t want, don’t continue taking these but I really recommend these.
#5- Stop Dopamine Abuse: You should learn more on that, but dopamine is basically the neurotransmitter that works about rewarding. Modern world chokes us in dopamine and we feel like we’re amounting to something, but actually we are not. Here is a great comic & article about this. All the time you watch that TV series, eating that fatty garbage could’ve been used to do something better, more and actually, realistically rewarding. This is really important.
#6- Simplicity, Cleanness and Tidyness: Be simple and do simple. Be clean, and I don’t mean just hygiene. Even if you’re not leaving the house for a day, take a show and look after yourself? — ?it is unbelievably important. Also, have a tidy living place. Start from somewhere and put on a music, it will be so great for you? — ?dopamine, remember?
#7- Ignore Everything, Focus On Only This: Ignore everything external, and focus only on the internal. That doesn’t mean cutting your realationships or not going to work. This basically means, only important thing is how you feel, what you feel and why you feel that way- and after understanding them, what are you going to do with that. Everything else is number two.
For now, this is it.
I also recommend you to look into and learn more about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (it’s really easy, you can do it just by yourself) and Stoicism (great philosophy) — but for now, just do the things that I’ve written about and try not to get overwhelmed. I know there is A LOT to learn about, to look into; maybe you are more confused after this article before how you were like reading it. Return to this guide time to time, take new notes, look into newer and more things. I promise you it will get better.
Oh and; cut anything that stresses you or makes you depressed/anxious out, but validate it is unnecessary before doing that. For example, going for a walk as I’ve written might stress you out and you might want to procrastinate, but you know it is not unnecessary stress, it is important because after awhile, you will want to go for a walk yourself. But things like “There are a lot of Game of Thrones episodes to watch, what am I gonna do?” kind of stuff should be delegated.
And lastly, discover new stuff. New places, new people, new books, new documentaries, new artists. But don’t do it too much that you forget what are really important, which is you and your improvement. Don’t use these as an escape, use them just as an enchantement to life. Few personal recommendations that came to my mind; Herbie Hancock, Mark Knopfler & Dire Straits, Supertramp, Elliot Hulse, Amélie, Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room, Inside Job. And I am always ready to help. Please reach me whenever you feel like.
You can reach me via email : kemaltenebris{at}gmail.com
via Twitter: twitter.com/@KemalTenebris
And subscribe to my newsletter for more great content, exclusive to subscribers : https://tinyletter.com/KemalTenebris
Conclusion: Good luck on your journey! Don’t forget to read this article again ang again whenever you feel hopeless/misguided, and take notes — most important thing is that you must apply these, never forget! I hope I was able to help.

[–]PalindromicBirthday29 points30 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Having conquered depression myself over the last 5 years, this would have been a major help rather than figuring it out on my own.

My favourite part is the Sims technique where you enter God mode and alter your mood. It really is as simple as making the internal decision to think differently. Most people can't comprehend how this is possible, because they only try it once, and when the negativity resurfaces they think the method failed and they give up. In fact you have to constantly, consciously and willingly enact this method, until the new way of viewing becomes default, and the thought process you are halting stops firing altogether.

It does happen, you just need to work at it. Most people who are depressed are stuck in a loop, whereby their depression makes them not even want to be happy. Break this cycle, and you will be free.

It is not an easy road, but once committed truly to path towards happiness, depression is a pussycat.

Just an aside, thoughts on treating your depression as you would deal with shit tests from a woman? Depression could be seen as an internal shit testing of the self?

[–]KemalTenebris 10 points10 points [recovered] | Copy Link

One thing I realized by talking to a lot of people after writing the article is, they don't take their fate in their hands. They don't control their own lives. They are on the verge of giving up and they don't really care, they expect a magic pill or a white knight. This is scarcity mindset at its worst.

Thank you for your further input, I appreciate it.

I think the only actual MUST is to keep trying new and profound stuff, changing them according to what works and what doesn't and never giving up.

I am also into occultism and things like that and I can easily tell you that you have to IGNORE and CUT THE CONTACT COMPLETELY with that bitching side in your mind. Don't treat it like inner shit tests. In the end you get a pussy after you pass shit tests, what do you get if you pass inner shit tests? It will keep you shit testing.

I like the way you think, improving stuff and adding techniques etc, but believe me, best way is to KILL that inner bitch by ignoring it completely. And you do this by not interacting with it. Create a rational, truthful and reliable inner self whom you can consort with.

[–]ghostbrainalpha1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually was wondering if you were into the Occult after catching some interesting word choices.

It's weird how the philosophy that looks the most like 100% imaginary bullshit, is actually almost completely about willpower and self improvement.

[–]PalindromicBirthday0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Great insight. My thought process was specifically on the ignoring aspect of handling shit tests, but you are quite right, there is nothing to be gained so no purpose in engaging in any way.

Perhaps a comparison could be drawn to the antibiotic nuclear option for handling shit tests, as this precludes any interest in engaging further.

The occultism thing is interesting, as I have no real knowledge of it, and as a philosophy grad I'm fascinated by different viewpoints. Didnt even realise it was a modern Philosophy so research is necessary!

[–]playingwithfyre2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry but this is feel good tripe. If you are clinically depressed, deciding to be happy simply will not work.

The issue is chemical in nature at that point and your brain is responding in a depressed manner. You can "think you're happy" but your body will still depressed, and you will be depressed.

That's why exercise is so important. It is a chemical attack on a chemical problem. The rest is just helping you cope with and understand your current state.

To change the state, you must make permanent changes to your body and lifestyle.

This post should have negative karma.

Source : Thought like this until I got clinical depression. Nothing will pull you out of that once you're deep enough besides drugs (which common side effect, suicide ideation, fucking GREAT) or exercise.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you elaborate on what the 'God mode' is please? I played that game a lot, and feel like an idiot for not getting it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You basically force your sim to do something. Sometimes they bitch and moan (stamp their feet, shake their head, having thunderclouds appear above their heads) so you click again and they do it.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I got cancer from reading this. Let me think away my cancer.

[–]Redasshole19 points20 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I would like to add my

Survival tips for depressed people

Buy a rice cooker. I cant remember how many times it saved me. Heat a pan? Wash rice? Pour water in the pan? Pour rice in the pan? WATCH THE RICE WHILE ITS COOKING? Clean the pan?You kidding me? Pour rice & water in rice cooker, hit two buttons : done.

When all you do is laying on your bed all day there is one thing you can do : read. All you need is a sentence to catch your attention. And what subject interests you when you are depressed? ... read feeling good the new mood therapy by david m burns.

PUT AWAY ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES: computer, smartphone... dont use them to flee away from your reality. They can make it bearable but that will prevent you from leaving it. Feel the pain, it will empower you. I can not stess how important avoiding porn and video games is.

Crawls out of bed and walk. You dont even need to shower. It doesnt matter if you stink - after all, life has no meaning right? So dont bother and get the fuck out and walk. Listen to sad songs if you want but get out.

You can meditate whenever you want. Even if you are lying in bed and cant muster the courage to sit. Even if you dont have any app to guide you. Close your eyes and focus on your breath. Dont try to make it deep or short - dont do anything, just watch it.

Do not adore false gods : all those things that make you think can help like ice cream, peanut butter, alcohol, drugs..stay away from those. Your salvation is in the pain.

Wash at least your asshole and your teeth, flush your toilets, force yourself to put the garbage in the bin and to take the bin out EVERY DAY.

[–]IWishIWasARealBoy 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

How do you just include peanut butter like that?

I really thought it couldn't possibly have counted.

TRP is better than me for sure.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Raw peanut butter is probably a better option

[–]justaskingman70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would not allow the listening to sad songs, it promotes the cycle. Listen to sad songs.. YOU WILL BE SAD.

The whole point of depression is that you are thinking the wrong way about things to be productive/successful. Productive/successful can be whatever you define it to be, however.. no one ever has had that defined with depression linked in with it too.

It's faulty thinking by way of faulty or just plain wrong 'inputs' in to the system that is YOU. You then get wonky outputs being depressive thoughts and unproductive behaviors. Change the inputs AND ALSO change the way you process things (think about, rationalize, value) and you get a different output.

This is where the music comes into it, the first step is to eliminate all bad inputs that you can. Sad music that promotes sad feelings.. is a bad input when you are depressed. ELIMINATE what you can in the area of inputs and this has got to be one of the easiest ones. Others are changing your environment (friends, school, work) or watching something more intellectual like documentaries instead of mtv music awards. There are of course things that you cannot change by the way of inputs, or not easily at least. With these things, it takes a change in the process part of your system that is you and thats much more complex but it starts with changing the inputs and then forming habits to enforce the right process and repeating.

Sorry for the ramble but not sorry, hopefully this is useful to someone and this way of seeing depression can help break them from the cycle as it did with me. It's a system and just like any system, it behaves on logic and has rules. Good input > good output. Bad > bad. That's the surface of it, once you master this fundamental step then you can delve deeper into the process portion of it.

[–]hipfash30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What did you eat with rice?

[–]Redasshole1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On those days I couldn't muster much energy, most of the time i would take some tomato sauce can, put it on it and microwave it, maybe with a little cheese. Really couldn't muster up the courage to cook anything. i would basically put on top anything that i had, so long as it didn't require more effort than putting the whole thing in the microwave

[–]RedDeadCred0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sad songs is a bad idea. Modern music is already a dopamine trap, and then adding in the negative energy of sad songs is just a terrible idea.

[–]KemalTenebris 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is a really weak, primitive point.

[–]RedDeadCred-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fuck outta here, it's a valid point and you don't have a counter argument. Music has a powerful grip on emotions and you shouldn't use it to compound negativity.

[–]PalindromicBirthday1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He meant your point was weakly presented. "Modern music is a dopamine trap" is not a statement you can sensibly make without further exposition.

You may be right in your statement, but your presentation was primitive. You don't counter someone who provides less than half an argument.

Read your original again and you should see why it is a primitive and weak argument.

[–]WarmApfelPi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's based on the assumption that people are already at least somewhat aware of the extreme emotional charge in music, especially recent works.

[–]WarmApfelPi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having been a fan of Smashing Pumpkins, I concur. Sad music is horrible as it just enables you digging further down the rabbit hole. Abstaining from the negative energy in such potent and easily accessible forms is critical to recovering.

[–]Endorsed ContributorObio1110 points111 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

You should add: You must be social and you must get your ass out of the house as much as humanly possible. Depression feeds on itself when it can feed on itself. Don't give it the chance.

[–]Rufferto_n_Groo20 points21 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And remember:

Only you can fix you.

[–]vagbutters29 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Being a prisoner in your own home is terrible. I remember a professor I had in college who I was tight with giving me advice that the best thing to do after the loss of a loved one is to just stay busy. I didn't heed that advice for a solid few months and I felt the true extent of depression. Get out of the house and go do something. For me I volunteered at a local hospital and also worked on EMT training in my free time-- kept me busy, made friends, and had me on a solid routine instead of moping around the house.

[–]KemalTenebris 10 points10 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Volunteering might be the perfect way of that, you're absolutely right.

[–]hagolu2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I volunteered for an organisation under UN in Thailand and after 4 weeks of working and being in between people of different cultures, my shyness and approach anxiety (and depression) has basically considerably reduced.

Now back at college, I make goals everyday and focus on getting them finished. I have to polish my social skills and get fitter but I am back on track again.

Keep busy, don't overthink and look people in the eye and smile while talking to them.

BTW, saving this article for later read.

[–]KemalTenebris 15 points15 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Avolition & anhedonia, they are big problems.

Look, this post was not intended for TRP, so the language is a bit soft etc as you might see. This article was intended for the general, everyday people who struggle with it so yeah.

I guess the gist of my writing comes down to those. Thanks for the addition though.

[–]brunomarini134 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit that's probably the most important thing I need to focus on, thanks

[–]ockhams-razor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolute truth right here. Get out and do things social... for damn sure.

[–]Heizenbrg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not depressed ( used to be, got out of it with exercise and social life), but Overwatch is definitely helping me staying glued to a monitor all day.
I'd say defeating temptations that are not too productive is a staple to a balanced life...

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd610 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for a very great write up on depression. Many people don't know there are several shades of depression. While some people can beat the mental illness, others are too deep to get out on their own. Many people find different methods and a combination of things that keep them from being completely down and out. In others, the manic depressive, sometimes medication is the only way to cut through it. Once you have the lift from the medication, it's a simple matter of following your guide in hopes that you don't relapse.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Also, there is an argument gaining traction that medication is a cover-up. When individuals stop taking their meds, they slip back into depression - therapy (TRP seems to hate the idea for whatever reason) is actually extremely useful here. Teaching a depressed individual the correct ways to think fixes an underlying behavioural/cognitive issue whereas taking medication just masks this issue.

Saying all this, I haven't even touched on the currently unknown side effects of prolonged use of antidepressants and SSRIs.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd60 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think we can all agree that the medicine only gets you out of the pit. The rest has to be up the person. If you are just typically sad and down on yourself, I wouldnt say that you need medicine or therapy.

I would say that if you cant get out of bed, and havent eaten for days. It might be time to seek professional help.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree - but at the same time psychology requires more research into positive and negative affect (optimism vs pessimism) to really understand if some people are just happier than others (there is some empirical data to suggest such a thing). And then further, we'd need more research into whether or not certain interventions can raise the overall level of happiness of more pessimistic individuals.

All very complicated, and psychology is so young we have much to discover yet.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbogeyd6-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems pretty common sense. Of course some people are just happier than others. Science sometimes baffles me.

[–]najaanwe10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

My two cents: Research and pay attention to your gut health. Your gut is essentially like a second brain, so take care of it and the foods you ingest. Some studies have indicated a correlation between certain strands of gut bacteria and depression, and vice versa. Probiotics may therefore be worth a shot.

An interesting read, among others: http://www.prevention.com/mind-body/probiotics-antidepressants

[–]KemalTenebris 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I believe this is a really UNDERRATED point here. This is some deep, very fucking important shit right there.

I have heard it somewhere and totally resonated with me and logic in general, but don't know the details - I mean in a scientific, philosophic and physiological way so if anyone knows, please tell me what you know.

Thanks man, VERY important point.

[–]PalindromicBirthday1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's complex, and not fully understood. Ongoing research into gut health is producing new information all the time.

From what iv heard and read it seems to be, firstly, the effect of your body digesting correctly, meaning your body is simply functioning better and allowing more energy to be used elsewhere. It's the most simplistic view, but seems to make sense, a body which functions and operates soundly and efficiently will be happier than one which does not. Good gut health also means better nutrient distribution, as digestion will be more efficient at drawing these out.

This transitions to the second factor, which is that healthy bacteria and enzymes kill and negate bad bacteria. While it appears to be unknown at this stage what direct correlation can be drawn between bad bacteria and bad mood, my guess would be that bad bacteria spreads and creates more bad bacteria, which being located in the gut is distributed throughout the body. This last point is total conjecture on my part.

I am no expert. However.

I recommend everyone look up this supplement: Green Vibrance. I take it daily and it not only covers a spectrum of vits and minerals but also contains billions of probiotic baxteria. Iv been taking it for over a year now and have noticed dramatic improvements, everything from mood to not getting sick as often or as severe.

[–]RedDeadCred4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Studies have shown probiotics are a better antidepressant than antidepressants

[–]Azzmo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My life experience has also shown this. It's 100% true.

[–]boatdrinks0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you have any more information or some links on this?

Which probiotics to use? Is just yogurt enough?

[–]RedDeadCred1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea, fermented foods are all you need. Make sure you get yogurt that actually lists the probiotics they use. Saurkraut, pickles, khomubjca, kimchi, kefir are great as well. Try to vary it a bit too, and try to eat fiber after.

As far as links there is a huge amount of info if you Google it.

[–]krsuma3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post. I think its a great guide that shows people the first steps in a clear way.

[–]KemalTenebris 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you. I hope people will benefit this. And the amount of emails I receive is surprising.

[–]krsuma1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope you do bud. Ill be cheering for you

[–]Stythe2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're points all hit home. I once told someome depression is a choice. That's a lousy way to say it. More appropriately it's the lack of choice. The easy path of repition you continue to choose. Realistically depression can only be beaten through proving to yourself you can beat it. Since it can't be faught directly, you have to feed the subconscious with confidence. The only way to build inner confidence is to beat struggle. This is why exercise works. It's why meditation works. It's why diet is important. It's why hobbies distract you. Systematically, one by one, you counter the affects of your subconscious decision to maintain stagnancy and push yourself. When you do that, you realize you are fully capable of success.

It's a weird battle to fight. You know the answers but don't want to do them. But until you do, you won't win the war. Since the war is always ongoing you have to create a system that continues the win each fight. This is exercise, diet, socializing, having hobbies, exc. They pull you out of your home and being the focus away from your problems and into the world, into tangable things you can succeed at over time.

Id almost say depression is like killing your old self by inventing new routines and by extension, a happier you.

[–]PalindromicBirthday0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude, your last line hits true to my experience. I think many people are afraid if they stop being depressed they'll stop being them. Well, stopping being you is a GOOD thing if the current you is depressed.

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're already depressed and at least some of it is directly tied to their actions. More of it is probably indirectly tied to their actions as well.

I know from my own experience dealing with depression that it takes new actions and lifestyle changes to beat it. That can change you in the eyes of others, but who cares? You weren't happy, so change.

[–]FudgingEgo6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ive suffered and still am suffering bad depression, i noticed people at work did not really want to talk to me nor me them so would sit with my headphones in.

Slowly they tried to help get me out of the "funk" and i interact more, the interaction with other humans makes you feel so much better than anyone who is depressed will realise.

Talk to people, nothing deep just talk. Listen and contribute to what ever the conversation is.

[–]ragingcaterpie9 points10 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

This guide is great! But it doesn't work for people like me. My brain is chemically unbalanced and therefore I don't create dopamine like a normal person. I keep up with many of the things you recommend and i still want to kill myself at the end of the day if i dont take my medication. Sure getting the right meds takes about 6 months to a year, but once you find the right mix everything comes together in such a beautiful way. The only reason I'm still alive is because of medication. Anyone who doesn't have a chemical imbalance can take these tips and it will definitely improve your quality of life. Thanks for the read I'll pass it around to friends I know need this kind of explanation. I hope all of you have a great day.

[–]KemalTenebris 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you!

I also have that chemical imbalance and because of that even though I am not depressed, I am not really happy even now. But I think happiness is a shiny, not so much needed thing. There is contentment, which is better.

Contentment is what a man feels after he does what he needs to do, when he works on his mission etc. Find that and you'll be fine.

By the way, even though I don't take pills, I am not against them ;)

[–]ragingcaterpie2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To each their own. People like us are like family to everyone we meet. Thank you for caring about people, it's not something a lot of people do now a days.

[–]1whatsazipper1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

My brain is chemically unbalanced and therefore I don't create dopamine like a normal person.

Based on what diagnostic test have you determined that your brain is "chemically unbalanced"? What is the appropriate balance of chemicals?

[–]ragingcaterpie2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Not sure about the appropriate levels of chemicals, but from the blood test and the screening I had my psychiatrist said that I produce 20% of the dopamine that a normal person makes. Honestly not sure. Never got an Fmri. Only reason I agree with the doc is when I'm off meds I'm a horrible person. When I'm on meds I'm "normal". Tried to kill myself a year and a half ago when I was on abilify and Xanax. Doc figured out my meds quick after that.

[–]1whatsazipper0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, I am glad you have found some help amid all the suffering. My main issue here is to ensure that other people don't get harmed through poor science or greedy organizations. I wish you well.

[–]ragingcaterpie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks man same to you! I try to study what my doctors tell me so I can have a better understanding of the process, but yeah people get fucked. Like when they prescribed me xanax.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I imagine a psychologist or psychiatrist diagnosed him - perhaps there was a neuropsychologist that also ran a neurological test (fMRI is quite common). You can see brain abnormalities that would indicate chemical imbalances or neurological pathing issues.

[–]ragingcaterpie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just remember a blood test and some machine I got put into. It wasn't an Fmri. Diagnosed when I was 14. Had the same test a couple years ago. Same results.

[–]1whatsazipper-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

An fMRI is not commonly used to diagnose patients with depression and there is very little in the ways of concrete testing that yields information regarding chemicals and their balance in the brain. People have been listening to good marketing more than any hard science. The imbalance nonsense comes from the commercials not the laboratory. If you can come up with some hard science backing, by all means, but I think you'll find it worthy of "myth" categorization.

[–]ragingcaterpie1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true good sir. In psychology there are two types of depression. Mental and chemical. I simply don't create enough dopamine. And yes Fmri is fairly common even with the recent findings.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sorry, let me clarify - I'm saying that an fMRI is commonly used in neurological testing because we can see blood/oxygen levels of the brain, thus allowing us to see physical disorders, etc - not commonly used in diagnosis of depression. Diagnosis of depression is commonly clinical, often it involves personal history, situation context, psychological tests and a clinical observation.

[–]1whatsazipper-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Let's face it within 15 min of meeting a doctor you can be prescribed Lexapro and maybe even Klonopin too. Psychiatric medication gets pushed hard on patients when it often may not even be necessary and could easily do more harm than good.

Anyhow, I take issue with the "chemical imbalance" garbage. People are parroting drug companies.

Serotonin and Depression: A Disconnect between the Advertisements and the Scientific Literature

Contemporary neuroscience research has failed to confirm any serotonergic lesion in any mental disorder, and has in fact provided significant counterevidence to the explanation of a simple neurotransmitter deficiency. Modern neuroscience has instead shown that the brain is vastly complex and poorly understood.

While neuroscience is a rapidly advancing field, to propose that researchers can objectively identify a “chemical imbalance” at the molecular level is not compatible with the extant science. In fact, there is no scientifically established ideal “chemical balance” of serotonin, let alone an identifiable pathological imbalance.

[–]RED_PILL_TRUTH-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

How old are you? I battled this for years. I had an idea for you that might give you some faith.

[–]ragingcaterpie1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm 24. I've been diagnosed with severe chronic depression (genetic lyrics passed from my mother) and anxiety state. I take my pills and I smoke a little weed every now and then. Whatsup?

[–]RED_PILL_TRUTH0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I asked your age because if you hit your 40's or 50's it seems like this shit becomes a little more set in, and because there is good news. In my younger days, I bounced around from different psych drugs, SNRI's, anti convulsants, SSRI's, benzos, and non beta blockers and shit. Diagnoses ranged from bipolar to NPD to panic disorder to depression to bipolar II to generalized anxiety.

They believed there was a genetic component, but I dare you to find one family that doesn't have someone with an issue. It's a rarity, and if it's not diagnosed it tends to manifest itself in other ways.

That being said, do not give up hope! After 7 years of anti-depressants and benzos- the only thing that really worked to "slow my brain" other than booze- I'm off that stuff. The male brain is fucking weird until 25/26. I hit 25, and my brain slowed down considerably.I was able to slowly ween off the medicine. 26 hit and boom, flushed the rest like it's like a forgotten past- the only time issues come up now are when I drink too much.

I also suggest visiting a good internal medicine doctor (they really are some of the best) and having a full blood panel. I had severe allergies- anxiety!, insulin insensitivity- anxiety!, and very low vitamin-d- anxiety/depression! (most white people do have low vitamin D, but it does really help with mood disorders).

Don't accept a fucking label, even a lot of pdoc's have no idea what's going on. It's fucking guesswork. If I lived by my diagnoses I would be on SSD living a pathetic life at 300 lbs. masturbating all day eating Pizza Hut. Don't let some human try to fit you into a box. Every human living will feel depression, it's part of life. You and I just got put in a little bit more a rut. There are ladders out.

Anyways, I put a lot of the work in, if you want to know more shit PM me. Others should benefit from the time, money and energy I poured into fixing this shit.

[–]ragingcaterpie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the outlook. I'll definitely look into the blood panel. My brain never slows down so I hope it does in the next year or two. I'm happy to know that other people know what it's like. Everyone and anyone I've talked to about it doesn't understand what I'm talking about. They say how can you not control your thought process, why do you freak out about little stuff, and my favorite, quit being a wimp. Thank you for the insight you have no idea what that means to me.

[–]TomFoo2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Awesome post. I've had something short of clinical depression but I got better once I started doing good things for myself. 100% agreed.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

With all due respect all this superficial shit like exercise and dieting never worked for me, what really worked was Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that I learned reading the book Feeling Good by David Burns.

All you need is pen and paper and 10 minutes of your day. Try it out people.

[–]KemalTenebris 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link

"Superficial shit like exercise and dieting." - don't be dumb.

You're right about CBT, as I've also mentioned in the article.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I say superficial because although it helps, it won't solve the problem. I did all the routine: lifting, running, crossfit and it makes life more bearable, helps to sleep, make you strong mentally, but doesn't touch the root of the problem. That was my case at least.

[–]Corruptdead3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

As much as I try to get exercise my mind seems to tell my body it can't. I've seen doctors about both the physical and mental aspect but I get the usual "Just stop being depressed and do it." But in reality I pick up the weights do the cardio for a few mins and my motivation just dies. Do you have advice to overcome the mental barrier?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Follow his (op) advice, it's spot on. You have to push through the times when you have no motivation. It's going to happen a lot.

There will be times when you have to push past the point of any fucks given and when you do, you'll learn a little about yourself. Every time you do that, you'll forge your character into something stronger and better. Before you know it, you'll be so confident in just doing those things you'll see them as pretty insignificant to do and you can expand that into pursuing your other dreams or ambitions.

[–]MrInternetDetective2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My advice for when this type of mood hits me is simple: "Just 1 more" One more lift, one more minute, one more lap. You trick your mind into thinking "oh cool one more then I'm done!" But then you just tell yourself again, "ONE MORE!" until you reach your actual limit. It sounds cheesy typing it but it does help me.

[–]RedDeadCred0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the circumstances. Loss of motivation for exercise is a sign of overtraining, so if you're working out hard this could be it. If you can't even do your warmup though then it's probably something else. Also, don't do boring ass workouts. If I had to run on a treadmill for 30 mins I'd never do it. Intervals are much more interesting.

[–]changshuaidiao0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exercising is an addiction, and before you can chase the dragon you must experience the high. The high doesn't come from doing the work but from seeing the results. Force yourself to do it until you see a positive change, and you will be itching to do it more.

Also, take creatine.

[–]human_bean_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you tried team sports, or maybe walking a dog? There are various fun ways of getting exercise without even noticing.

[–]hamsterbator-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Jesus. Stop being a pussy and continue to force yourself until it becomes a habit. Don't go the gym without a plan, and don't leave until you've done all of the sets and reps as planned. Find a program and stick to it.

After a month of regular exercise it will become a habit.

Or continue being a big pussy for the rest of your life.

[–]5t3fan0-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

do you need motivation to breath all day long? nope, its necessary and you just od it, wheter you like it or not.

so just excersize and dont expect it to be funny. IT WILL BECOME FUN later, guaranteed, but that's just a bonus.

shut up the mind already, the curse of modern men is being trapped all up the mind and forgetting the rest of the body all the time.

[–]PM_me_nicetits1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is magic. I needed this right now. Thank you so much.

[–]PissedPajamas1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The depression "you don't know", 99% of the time, is a nutritional imbalance or deficiency in your body. I know it sounds silly, but even slight deficiencies can completely alter your state of mind.

For years I was in the dark about deficiencies and took regular multi's to cover all the basics. Big mistake. The multi's caused an induced deficiency of activated B vitamins in my body because I had problems converting the inactive vitamins into the bioactive forms in the body. This gave me fatigue, anxiety and depression. It wasn't until I did some nutrient tests and genetic testing that everything started making sense. I was stupid low on B12 (energy), B1 (removal of toxins from body), B3 (promotes relaxation), and B6 (controls sulfur in the body and promotes mental stability).

A lot of you might have deficiencies if you're feeling brain fogged, fatigued, anxiety or depression. Don't just say "welp, this is happening to me and I hope it passes". Research your symptoms, track your nutrient intake, take action. An active B vitamin should be the staple of every man looking to improve his mind as well as enough exercise, sleep and staying away from alcohol.

I was pure shit for brains for years on end cause of my persistent brain fog, but now I feel on top of the world. I have a very strict diet free of folic acid, msg, gluten, wheat and soy, but my mind is at its peak right now. I can enjoy life again without the major fatigue that plagued my existence.

Please look after yourselves and get tested for deficiencies, it might change your life.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you very much for your input, this post is really important.

I have touched the subject briefly in the article, but this is a much detailed explanation, perfect.

I'd like to ask, why don't you take folic acid, MSG, gluten etc? Have you got tested for them if yes how, and if not, is it because you might be reactive to them?

[–]PissedPajamas1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Folic acid is a cheap alternative to Folate that undergoes four different conversions before its turned into the proper nutrient for absorption. Methylfolate skips all these steps, as it's the nutrient that folic acid hopes to convert into. Under normal circumstances, people can convert folic acid into folinic acid, into folate, and into the nutrient methylfolate. Some people have genetic mutations that cause problems in the conversions, so they end up with a build up of unmethylated folate in the body. Since its unmethylated, it can't be used and instead causes symptoms of deficiency. Most people with this genetic problem suffer from fatigue, insomnia, extreme social anxiety, anhedonia etc.

MSG and gluten are trouble foods for the majority of the population. MSG can trigger seizures in certain people due to the glutamate it's bound to (Monosodium >>>Glutamate). Glutamate is a necessary neurotransmitter for attention and focus, but too much and you have mania, convulsions and anxiety.

Gluten is a trouble food, it's hard to digest and a common sensitivity, so I dropped it altogether with wheat and dairy.

I tested myself at a lab, I have a high Glutamate-to-GABA ratio, so I'm lacking some calming neurotransmitters. I don't have a gluten sensitivity but I've been more energetic since dropping it.

I hope my explanation helps

[–]shamanwolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

^ this.

A lot of doctors aren't even up to date with the research and will just resort to mainline SSRI treatment. But all the Prozac in the world won't make much of a difference if your body isn't able to produce a decent amount of neurotransmitters to begin with.

Also, thanks for the gluten tip. I've never given it much thought, but I remember doing well on a low-carb diet.

Perhaps I didn't resort to pasta and bread because I'm a lazy fuck... rather, consuming pasta and bread is making me a lazy fuck. I will give it some more thought.

[–]faaboy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where did it go? I saved it to come back to it and now it's gone.

[–]SW98762 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There is a paradox, though. The guide requires dedication and work to fix the issue of being lazy and not wanting to work.

[–]HappyManBeast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But nobody is lazy and don't want to work all the time. Depression doesn't mean that you are sad all the time. Depression is not a constant.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is not a paradox, you asshat.

This is a vicious cycle. And you CAN break out of any cycles. In this case, even the article is a component to break the cycle.

[–]SW98760 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What i'm saying is breaking the cycle requires one to put in work and dedication. The whole reason one would try this method in the first place is because they lack dedication. The sentence I am calling into question is the following, "I have also developed a system for these to work and you will not even need extra willpower of energy for it if you take your steps right". That's just completely and utterly false. This requires consistent effort. I'm not saying your method is bad or wrong, but there is a clear contradiction in the fact that one needs dedication in order to follow your method to fix lack of dedication.

[–]PalindromicBirthday0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is a fair point, but can be solved by changing extra to extensive, or some other word denoting a large amount. Considering OP is clearly not a native English speaker I think you are being a bit picky. Furthermore someone who is depressed is usually put off by anything requiring effort, so telling them these methods are within their capabilities makes it easier to follow the guide rather than give up, even if in some cases these methods do require extraneous effort.

It is not a paradox though, as another replied, it would only be a paradox if the depressed person had no willpower whatsoever, in which case they are already dead or comatose. All people have dedication and willpower the amount merely varies.

Still, you have hit on the most difficult factor in depression, that it actively works against any fixes you apply.

[–]___Jamie___1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most seriously depressed people already know this. They just don't really feel motivated to get better. They don't love themselves enough do they don't feel like they are losing anything by just rotting away.

[–]lukianp0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

How do you go about empowering others (friends, partners etc) who have generalised anxiety or mild depression, and know they have this but dont like being told so nor helped? Secondly you can address such situations, and the bouts of depression and anxiety come in waves, usually out of completely nowhere ( like life is good, job is good everything is fine, then the dark storm comes into their head, they lose balance need to sit down and wait it out)

How would you combat something like this?

[–]KemalTenebris 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It is hard to talk about this actually. Whatever you do might seem fake to them. But, just be there for them.

The problem is, they are living in an irrational, illogical world - which is caused by depression. So, whenever you want to do something with them, that shouldn't be just sitting and talking in my opinion. Sure, sit and talk hours from time to time, go into deep topics etc. But the best way would be to make them do something.

Take them out to dinner, go to cinema, all those basic activities. Think as if it's a date. Their mood will be way better.

Only time you should really be careful is when you head back home. They might sink into depression again after they end those activities, so spend time with them.

[–]lukianp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

solid advise thanks for that. Every day is a struggle, her GAD is super sensitive and we come from 2 very different backgrounds and cultures. Making her do something is quite the task and because she is so exhausted from the stresses of life its not easy

[–]Jack4ss920 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

You just have to keep putting yourself out there, keep forcing yourself out of your comfort zone, til your senses become less sensitive. If you are unable to force yourself, then find a mentor to push you. Take a job in sales for example, they will train you to talk to people. If it was anything like my old job, they will push you, and help you on a one to one basis.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Very very bad, basic (in a negative way) advice.

[–]Jack4ss920 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whats wrong with my advice? its tried and tested.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Numbing your senses is a stupid way to go, man.

I say, connect with them deeply and find core problems & solutions. THIS is the salvation.

[–]Jack4ss920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Obviously i dont mean numb your senses til you are a black hole

[–]Rosenmyah0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good read. A lot of the things you've mentioned I have done in the past and have been effective. My problem is staying consistent. I've found myself in a funk as of the past couple months; it mostly has stemmed from my job. I tend to let my unhappiness at work justify over indulgence of video games, junk food, alcohol etc. Finding a new goal or career path is something I need to tackle head on instead of ignoring it or just waiting for the weekend.

[–]798119960 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why nobody mentioned how over-masturbation and porn watching leads to depression? Nofap is protip numer one, every man should consider and implement it.

Vitamin D: get out of your house and sunbathe. Vitamin B6 is best for me(not depressed though - makes me happy and full of energy, 300mg per day taken once at morning)

Also worth trying: 1. GHB/GBL(cured my depression three years ago); some ppl recomend LSD/shrooms.

[–]WakeUpTheWorld0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Amazing guide! What advice do you have for setting goals and priories when everything feels so flat and subpar? I feel too blocked to even create a goal.

So blocked that I can't even push myself to do it. I have tons of work to do yet can't do any of it because of the heaviness I feel.

[–]KemalTenebris 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you for your kind words.

Life has probably threw a quest at you, a goal. It might be getting into a good university, getting a promotion etc. If they are good for you on the mid/long-term, you can go with them. But if you're going to go with those, you have to add a parallel, more personal goal.

I know that feeling, man. Only thing you have to do is to take 2-3 small steps. If you don't, there is no salvation for you for now.

[–]WakeUpTheWorld0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True and you are def right. I just haven't felt so blocked in such a long time it truly came out of left field. I need to start putting myself first again and business second as when I did that I felt better.

[–]buttpincher0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Damn this is a huge wall of text but so worth the read. Thank you so much for writing this all up!

[–]gatorgrips 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you very much for this post. I genuinely appreciate the effort put in and I will make use of the content. Thanks a lot, man.

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What do you do when you are depressed because you can't get a woman, then you can't get a woman because you're depressed?

I force myself to go out several nights a week and interact with women. Though nothing ever happens so I feel like shit on my way home. I haven't spent any time with a girl in eight months and it's really getting to me.

People don't seem to understand that repeated rejections can have a negative effect on a man.

[–]KemalTenebris 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

That is not depression. That is frustration. This is really important to understand the basic differences here, don't kid yourself.

The reason behind your lack of success might be that you're too needy. This is not the topic to discuss that I believe. AskTRP.

[–]Snazzy_Serval0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Excuse me? That's a very cold thing to say in a thread about depression.

Just in case you aren't aware, constant, repeated frustration can lead to depression. Or more likely it's that a person with depression is going to fail with women because he doesn't have the happy upbeat personality that attracts them.

This is not the topic to discuss that I believe.

I'd wager that the vast majority of men who have depression are struggling with women. There is no better topic to discuss it.

For the record I've been living with a constant diagnosed depression since I was 18, I'm 34. It sucks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Legit! I can definetly vouch for this since I have used some techniques like meditation and journaling when I went through it.

I had the unknown one for the longest time in 07 and a really bad one in 13. I realized I needed to do something drastic when I had a pistol near my head one night in the winter of 14.

Sometimes I think its crazy I would not be here. All I needed to do was jerk the trigger a hair and have a hollowpoint slug end my life.

I've come a long way since then and have dealt with ANOTHER situation earlier this year (loss of loved one) and since I've had prior experience with this disease I've gotten better and only went through it for about a month lightly.

This is truly great stuff because, unlike the keyboard tough guys say "man up", this shit will hit you hard and doesn't care WHO you are. I'm glad theres some resource out there to help those with the silent killer.

[–]5exyb3a5t0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depression is a loop.

I have these periods of productivity and focus but then it goes away because of depression. I deal with it by doing shit that's not productive and end up feeling more depressed.

I just need to be more aware and conscious about thoughts that trigger it.

Thank you for this amazing post. It really helped shift some perspective on some things.

[–]HappyManBeast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have made an automate response to my negative self talk. The magic word is, "Unless". For example:

“It was very rude of me to yell at my father. I wish I didn’t, I am a fucking bad son and don’t deserve his love. Fuck me.”

Unless...

“I can go to him and apologize for it, and can be extra nice for a period of time. I yelled at him but won’t do it again, because I see how it feels after I do. Fuck it, everyone makes mistakes.”

Every time I have a negative thought, I end it with "unless", which is much easier to remember and gives me a mental breathing room before I start to consider a positive upside to the previous thought. That way I insure that I always end with a positive outcome to any negative thoughts.

I also don't try to stop or fight any negative thoughts, they are just thoughts, so I let them run their course which often makes them more ridicules, then stopping mid sentence which feel forced and makes you wonder if you are just ignoring a bad aspect of your life.

Just let your negative thoughts do their thing, take a mental breath and say "unless" before you know the answer and then try to figure out what you can do to change the situation for the better.

[–]CaptainRaz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My small account + asking for some extra tips! /// I've been "recovering from" depression from some years now, and I'm finally off my meds and feeling great most of the time. Truly, these advices are wonderful. I feel I worked more on stress management, self-talk, cleanness and focus, but still lacking on the exercise and productivity fronts. Also I've recently discovered stoicism which gave me a HUGE boost forward, awesometacular. The "sims" tip is great, I'll certainly try it.

Now to ask for some more help: I still struggle with my daily routine, never making anything properly "on time", always feeling that there isn't enough time to "chill" and "produce". Always chronically postponing my personal projects, and leaving too much time to games/series/youtube/porn (and in this order of magnitude, yes, I'm a addicted gamer and actually 'like' it). I'm also 30 years old (if that is relevant to your tip). I'm working in a good job with some bad days and more bad people than good people, but with a interesting career, so when I come home after the workday I usually fell just like relaxing and that I deserve it (and I believe I do deserve it, but not everyday... some times I slack too much at the job too). The difficulty I think is to "don't relax to much" (and hence not going to sleep to late, not oversleeping, not slacking at the job or at home). Anyone might have some tip? (this is not exactly a distress call, and obviously there are guys in more trouble than me... I hope my case can help these guys, actually, that's why I opened up with it)

[–]bobby8u0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interestingly this week, scientists published identification of 15 genome locations linked to depression based on crowd sourced data from the new sites that are doing home based genetic testing.

[–]dickie_smalls0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

get plenty of sunlight. vitamin D helps and a nice bronze won't hurt (the confidence).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never blame anyone else for your problems. Had bad parents? Well you learned how to walk, read, write, talk, how the world doesn't play by blue pill rules. That's a solid base for you to learn many skills.

[–]upvoteguy20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am currently reading Feeling Good: The new mood therapy, author, David Burns. It's feels like each page is a cognitive therapy session, which is great.

most important, You must follow through with writing down the techniques, which ever you feel comfortable with, or you think will be most helpful .

I'm glad you mention that just reading a book on self improvement is, just the directions. But the action, the real improvement comes from you physically writing down the exercises everyday, and following through.

Many of the techniques you summarized are written about in this book for defeating depression . The book shows how to deal with cognitive distortions and how they negatively impact your life.

[–]rpthaw0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is one of the best RP posts in a long time. Approaches a concise guide to living. Thank you.

[–]brandon_ball_z0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I recommend trying a "thought record" with self talk. It's a CBT technique that's helped me balance out my thoughts.

Here's what you'd note down if you realise you're experiencing really troubling thoughts:

1) The five W's about your situation RIGHT NOW

2) Any moods you're feeling and how strongly you feel each one on a scale of 0 - 100%

3) Thoughts that were going through your mind before you started to feel these things. Focus on the thought that's troubling you the most.

4) Evidence that supports the troubling thought. "Evidence" is something that has been said or done that relates specifically to you.

5) Evidence that does not support the troubling thought. Again, "evidence" is something that has been said or done.

6) An alternative version of the troubling thought with the supporting and non-supporting evidence in mind

7) A re-rating of the moods you felt earlier as well as any new moods you're feeling

Rinse and repeat when you realise you're experiencing troubling thoughts. With enough repetition, it'll start to become second nature for you to think more realistically and challenge extreme ideas about yourself. If any of the steps aren't clear let me know.

[–]darkstar10310 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I'll go ahead and save this for a better time in my life when underemployment and crippling debt aren't blocking all possible light from reaching me.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

You don't know how wonderful position you're in right now.

Many people don't even have directions, goals in life. Believe me man. I'm not even kidding.

[–]darkstar10310 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's just the thing, there is no better time on the horizon. All of the jobs I can find openings for I am either over or underqualified for. It's either why don't you have a 4 year degree, and 5 years of experience, or we can't hire you because you have too much experience and we are convinced that you will just get bored and quit. I can't fucking win. What the hell happened to all the jobs?

Where's the money?

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'd suggest you to become an entrepreneur, but that's not everybody's thing. But if you have a little bit of inclination, create your own business.

[–]darkstar1031-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, i'll start my own business with all those large piles of startup money I just happen to have lying around everywhere./s

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was pretty heavily depressed without acknowledging it for most of my teenage years. Living in a room and hating life but I had decided suicide was the only way to truly lose the game of life.

Eventually I got really angry at how shit my life was, ended up dropping 100 lbs and turned my life around.

Depression is self inflicted, but can be impossible to recognize, sometimes it just takes some kind of external impetus to start your drive.

Exercise is so so so important. Get outside and do something in the sun and you will feel like a new person, all that vitamin D and testosterone will invigorate you.

Good luck to anyone going through their own personal hell, there's a light at the end, you just gotta find what direction to go.

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Not ALWAYS self-inflicted, but it's nearly all the time definitely self-solvable.

[–]RPFlame0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Another book I always recommend is "Flow: The psychology of optimal experience". I went in expecting to read just about the research around finding immersive activities and lose yourself in them, but I got so much more.

The professor who wrote this started by analyzing the attempts of society to control chaos through religion, and the fact that the universe is indifferent of our needs, then after explaining what flow is he brought examples of people who turned traumatic experiences into bettering themselves, broke them down to general steps, and he ended up describing even how to get an "autotelic experience" in life, how to find meaning in life... Hell, he even asked "what is meaning".

Really underrated book.

[–]w0w1YQLM2DRCC8rw 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This will get buried, but if you can afford it, check your hormone level and especially thyroid and do the normal blood test. This can be done really cheap and can get you fast out of depression. Also, and I am not kidding, try to eat better. If brain has nutrition deficiency it does not work properly! If you need any help you can also PM me and I will try to do my best.

[–]n0rthernmonkey0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have completely fucked up my life over the past 2 years and I currently have nothing.

Thank you for this post, I really need it right now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm being a bitch boy and struggling with the motivation to start with all these things, but i'm gonna force myself to read this every day and start working on all things. It's overwhelming a bit, especially for me lacking the strength and willpower to overcome my depression or even have the will to want to overcome it. But eventually it will stick, right?

Good read nonetheless.

[–]beastboi270 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good advice. I feel very down and zombie-like at the moment and i just don't know what i can do to really change. I read and have my little hobbies and i feel better but i am alone still and i don't know how to connect with anyone.

[–]telenoobies0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

wish i knew all this earlier.

[–]Nex2010 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

[deleted] n n > What is this?

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Show me ONE thing that is REALLY EASY in the article, you stupid asshat.

The reason behind your current situation is because of your love for the easy. Fuckwit.

[–]Nex2010 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted] n n > What is this?

[–]ConfirmationMan 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

WHY IS IT DELETED? I saved this post to read today and now it's gone!! Does somebody please have it saved somewhere??

[–]Hilarsky0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

http://imgur.com/a/04qHl Dunno why imgur places last picture on top. Rest should be fine

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you.

You can also use archive.is

[–]Hilarsky0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you tell me why your post has been deleted? Cheers H

[–]Hilarsky0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

http://imgur.com/a/04qHl Mirror, imgur shows last post as first one, rest should be in order

[–]GainzdalfTheWhey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

pastebin of post

http://pastebin.com/pkbCLGs1

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I saved this for reading later. Now it is removed. Where can I find this again? :(

[–]LippyMinded 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What about medication? Don't kid yourselves. Medication is integral to beating depression.

[–]1whatsazipper4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

The medication is no better than placebo and comes with the side effect of making you chemically dependent. Scramble your brains at your own risk, but don't advocate it like it's sensible, or, amusingly, integral.

[–]LippyMinded0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're wrong. There are different classes of antidepressant medications, and there are different kinds of depression. Some kinds of depression are more susceptible to placebo, some are not. I've been on psychiatric medication for ADHD and depression for the last 5yrs. I've been the most "alpha", satisfied, productive and successful since starting this medication. The problem is it's a very consuming process to find the right medication and or combination. With that said, medication is an integral part of treatment. It is not the only component, but a comprehensive depression treatment plan that neglects to address medication is not a valid plan.

[–]1whatsazipper0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

The main kinds of antidepressants prescribed are SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclic antidepressants, and atypical antidepressants.

People are fed nonsense about chemical imbalances that were nothing more than a marketing gimmick. We realize the serotonin hypothesis of depression was a farce and the benefits largely derived from placebo effect.

The commercials should be outlawed because it's annoying to listen to parrots. But more realistically, they should be outlawed because it's unethical to pervert the perceptions of scientific reality in the name of profit seeking off the backs of people down in life. I don't doubt that people need help but it's another thing to ask me to look aside when bad science gets repeated.

Ask Your Doctor If ProLexa Is Right For You~~

[–]LippyMinded0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're hell bent on the anti-medication narrative and it doesn't seem like evidence matters to you so we'll leave it at this. I've benefited extensively from medication, and I would not have been able to be RP without it.

[–]1whatsazipper0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm hell bent on dispelling nonsense. Evidence does matter to me hence why I provide relevant citations with assertions that I make. We have people talking about a chemical imbalance that doesn't exist due to commercials they have encountered, not solid scientific literature. That's an unavoidable fact.

On the other hand, I'm fundamentally aware of the human condition and suffering. At the end of the day, I'm grateful that you've found some relief. I wish you well.

[–]LippyMinded0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will agree with you that the serotonin imbalance theory has been shown to not paint an accurate picture of why antidepressants work. It appears to be that SSRI stimulate neurogenesis through BDNF modulation, which is also why antidepressants start to work in 4-8 weeks despite that they instantly start affecting the serotonin levels in the brain. SNRIs, Tricyclics and MAOIs promote this neurogenesis but they also affect norepinephrine and sometimes dopamine as well, so they work on other mechanisms aside from serotonin.

[–]intalus 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link

That's a load of bullshit. When I stop taking Trazodone my motivation and ability to enjoy things becomes significantly diminished.

[–]1whatsazipper2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's called withdrawal. Trazodone mentioned here.

It's no surprise that cessation of trazodone leads you to feel worse. In any case, you see initial benefit due to the placebo effect.

Call bullshit all you want. I'm not the one who built a hypothesis with the structural integrity of a sandcastle.

[–]intalus 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Did you bother to read the entire thing and find out how long the withdrawal lasts?

Discontinuation symptoms typically appear within three days of stopping antidepressant medication or initiating a medication taper, though it has been reported that reactions may occur within hours of the first missed dose.9 Untreated symptoms are usually mild and resolve spontaneously in one to two weeks.19 In rare but more serious cases involving psychosis, catatonia, or severe cognitive impairment, immediate psychiatric consultation may be required."

Yeah, I wonder why my 'withdrawal' is in the duration of several years after discontinuing it (those years were the least productive of my life).

The 'withdrawal' feeling you're attributing is exactly how I felt before I started the medication, but hey, you're more qualified than psychiatrists at top clinics.

[–]1whatsazipper0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, I'm glad you have found some relief under exceptionally difficult circumstances. At the end of the day that's what's really going to matter.

[–]MortalSisyphus 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

we feel like we’re amounting to something, but actually we are not.

Define "something," and how it differs from "nothing," and why.

[–]KemalTenebris 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Who the fuck are you giving orders to?

Saw Sisyphus in your nickname, and will be answering just for the sake of Camus. Lucky bastard.

What is the best output you've created after masturbating 20 times? Is it a cumbox? First, you define that. But you still release very much of the dopamine that you have.

Let's say you're doing door to door sales. Every sale will give you a boost of dopamine. See where that ends up?

There are arbitrary actions, and there are actual investment-like actions. Every time you choose the arbitrary actions, you forfeit your manhood, you flapdick.

[–]MortalSisyphus 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

You dodged the question...

Yes, masturbation releases dopamine.

But if you want to boil things down to that, then it is all the same.

You become a CEO for dopamine, it just lasts longer than an orgasm.

So is "meaningful" activity that which produces long-lasting dopamine as opposed to short-lasting dopamine?

It is all just a dopamine cost-benefit analysis.

I'm simply curious what people mean when they talk of "amounting to something." Most of the time it seems to boil down to "meeting society's standards" or "winning the Status Game."

Or they see where this train is heading, and so become elusive and vague... "becoming the Man you want to be!"

[–]KemalTenebris 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Why would I dodge the question? Are you able to understand?

Not a cost-benefit analysis, but a way to build momentum. Are you laying bricks when you masturbate? No. Are you laying bricks when you overeat? No. Are you laying bricks when you write 3 emails to get hired? Hell yeah.

Do you think once you become a CEO, dopamine will be released continuously until the board fires you and makes some other person the CEO? Man, you're dumb or, uneducated. Dopamine release is a one time thing, except thinking about memories etc.

You are going way deep here. Your place is not here man. I've been there, and you're having a bigger existential problem/questioning - which I find profoundly meaningful and very good, congratulations on that, you're special.

If you think this way, nothing has a meaning. You are on your way to find the truth I believe and not even joking. Learn more about occultism and spiritualism, sometime you'll reach there.

[–]MortalSisyphus 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Man, you're dumb or, uneducated.

Learn more about occultism

Had a feeling these very basic questions would leave you uncomfortable.

If I wanted occult mumbo-jumbo I'd just pm Neoreactionsafe.

It seems we've hit a dead end, I'm moving on.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is what I wanted to read. I'm also skeptical of posts about mental health in this sub because TRP doesn't like therapy or psychology for whatever reason.

OP's entire post was a very large anecdote with no references to research. While I can agree on the point of mindfulness therapy (and it can be self-administered), I hate how just because a post is formatted well and has some face validity, it receives a lot of positive attention.

I'm an advocate of much of TRP, but the view of mental health is something I've always struggled to agree with.

[–]play_time_is_over0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Also anti-depressants are awesome if ya get the right one :₩

[–]KemalTenebris 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link

"If you get the right one" - yeah, totally agree on that. But I think they just make you able to live with depression, don't destroy it. I want a real solution.

[–]play_time_is_over0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Well I work out 12 hiurs a week, distinction average, internship lined up, going on plenty of dates. Still depressed. Drugs was the last thing I needed to fix it

[–]KemalTenebris 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Do you mean only drugs cured it? My English isn't the best.

[–]play_time_is_over0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No its a combination of things.

Drugs, exercise, friends, girls and goals.

[–]vagbutters-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It depends on how bad your depression is. Ultimately your physician should decide that, but be extremely wary of the medical community these days that is fast to prescribe drugs to every fatass who thinks he's depressed.

We live in a blue-pill mangina society where guys who are "depressed" are encouraged to take a pill that fucks up their neurochemistry as opposed to working out of whatever situation their life is in. There are legitimate uses, but in my time in med school so far I've seen this abused by hypochondriac beta bitches time and time again.

[–]randarrow0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Great post, would only like to add that people are starting to think that depression is an evolved behavior, a way our body helps us to deal with a negative situation we may not even understand, and to give us the resources to deal with it. Temporary depression is not a bad thing, might even be helpful. Recurring or long term depression is a bad thing.

Wikipedia article on theories of depression

[–]5t3fan00 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

good quality post, plenty of nice content and enjoyable writing style

i just found a shit job last week.... i hate it already and the pay is low and im outta home from 7am till 8pm (no lunch break)... BUT its still better than staying home depressed and antisocial because im ashamed of being unemployment.

the catch is, now that i want to be social again... i have no small time! ops!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd like to add: Remove toxic people from your life. If somebody doesn't have their shit together, has no direction in life, or actively tries to pull you down, it is time to let them go.

[–]TehJimmyy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You should have mentioned NoFap specifically. I know its dopamine rush stuff but its a good sub for saying goodbye to depression , guilt , and past-shame

[–]KemalTenebris 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

As I mentioned in the very article, this post was aimed to general public. Not everyone knows NoFap and I don't want to waste their time explaining it, not because it's worthless but still.

[–]TehJimmyy-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Last sentence makes no sense. A single mention won't hurt anyone.

[–]Canadaismyhat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Holy fuck that sounds like a lot of work.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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