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They will look at you weird. (On IOIs) (self.askTRP)

submitted by Heathcliff--

This post may be obvious to some, but it'll be useful for some newbies on their journey. I sure wish someone had mentioned something like this to me a while back.

I got hot, but didn't realize it for a long time.

It takes a while to get hot. It won't happen overnight. It will come in stages. If you're lifting (like you should be), you won't really notice the change in your body, as you're constantly scrutinizing yourself in the mirror. You'll always be forever small.

However, friends and family will. One day someone you haven't seen in a while will come up to you and say something like "wow you've really changed!" or "you lost a lot of weight dude well done" or "damn your arms got huge have you been working out?". You'll be genuinely surprised; you won't have noticed the drastic changes because you'll be so focused on the increments.

And girls will treat you better. I guarantee you. Women might "accidentally" touch you more, they will look at you different, they may hug you when greeting when they've never done that before.

While working out presents incremental changes; fixing your style or haircut will be a drastic change that people are sure to notice straight away. Some may even make fun of you for it at first. Don't stress too much about it; a lot of people are weirded out and uncomfortable with drastic change. They have this mental image in their heads that they've assigned to you, a caricature per se, and when you break through that image and present yourself as something different, their reality is flipped on it's head and they may be a bit befuddled at first. That's normal, they quickly acclimatize again and get used to the new you. It happens quicker than you think. Don't stress too much about it.

But the real clincher is the looks you get from women. They check you out. All the time. All the hot guys on this sub know what I mean. If you don't know what I mean, it's because you haven't reached that stage of attractive yet. I'm going to explain what happened to me:

Even though I've been lifting for at least a year now, I'm still pretty slim. The combination of doing a strength program over hypertrophy, being tall, not eating enough consistently and having an albatross wingspan means my skinny arms and weak chest really give away how beta I used to be. I can still be bigger, and that's the plan.

However, I fixed my posture. I started dressing for my age (Don't just dress well. Dress for your age). I got a decent haircut and I take care of my hair properly. I got some shades that suit the shape of my face. I started shaving every day. I wear cologne.

One day I was commuting to school and I noticed a woman was giving me a weird look. When I saw her looking at me she snapped away. I was confused. Was there something on my face. Did I have a booger? Did I just look weird?

Being beta and self conscious I went to the bathrooms before my lecture to make sure there wasn't anything in my teeth or whatever.

On the way back, some teenage girls kept glancing at me. One turned around to look and I caught her. Her friends laughed.

I went home that day dejected, were those girls making fun of me because I looked stupid?

The next day I was sitting on the train and some HB7 looks at me. Then looks away. Then looks again. She was staring me down angrily. I remember thinking "what's this bitches problem".

Another did the same thing, fixed her hair when I met eyes with her. I looked away quickly. "Damn, can't have her thinking that I'm stare-raping her".

This kept happening, for a long time. I seriously went at least a few months wondering why all these women were looking at me weird on my commute to and from school. Why did they keep staring at me? Maybe I just had a fucked up face. Maybe I dressed weird? Smelt weird? Gave off a weird vibe? I was so used to being that weird nerd kid that I assumed every time someone looked at me they were making fun of me.

And then one day I had a pretty obvious eye opener. A very effeminate camp man stared me down on the tube. He wasn't even shy about it. When I looked at him again, he smiled.

"Why did he smile?". I realized he was the first man I'd found who was looking at me with those weird "scared" eyes that all the girls were giving me. I thought I was scaring those girls cos I looked, acted or smelt weird.

But no other men were staring me down on the train. I couldn't remember a single time a man looked at me weird on the tube like the way the women were. If I looked, acted or smelt weird, surely I'd be getting death stares from all genders?

And bam, that's when I realised. Maybe they're checking me out.

The "imposter syndrome" post recently got me to write this up, because really, that's what I was feeling. I couldn't for the life of me notice that I was being checked out, because I never considered myself hot. I never even realized that I'd GOT hot; but of course it had to happen eventually. I was actively working on improving my appearance after all. I just never really internalized that at one stage I actually would reach "attractive". Eventually I was going to get to a stage where random strangers on the street were going to check me out. I just hadn't realized I'd hit that stage.

And from there all the previous encounters with women on the train made sense to me. They were all checking me out.

"No way", I thought. "There's no way they can be that blatant".

And then I started looking out for it. They do it ALL the time. On the train, at the library, at the coffeeshop. Women check me out CONSTANTLY now. I couldn't believe it. I've never had this much attention from random women before in my life. I've never been validated so much by strangers. Is this what it's like to be a pretty girl?

Once I started noticing it, I learnt to look out for it, and now I notice it more. On every commute I take there will be at least 3 or 4 women who give me the eye. They look at me, look away, and then look at me again. This is an IOI.

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick. Almost certainly. A woman who notices an attractive guy will almost straight away groom herself to ensure she's looking at her prettiest. If you see a girl across the bar/cafe or whatever fix her hair after looking at you, you have been given a free pass to approach. I have never been had a rejected approach after hitting on a girl who fixed her hair after staring me down.

I know it's a sure thing because I realized I did it to. If I saw a hot girl I'd fix my hair quick while she wasn't looking. Women are the same.

I read in a comment on here a while back that if you catch eyes with a girl, don't be the first to look away. It's true. If you look away first it signals how beta you are. In almost all cases the girl will look away first. Some snap straight away. If she stares you down and you end up playing chicken it means you've got a feisty one.

If she looks away and then looks back at you and your eyes are still firmly locked on her, she will melt. It's a sure technique to framing yourself as alpha before you even open your mouth. You know what you want and you're looking at it, you won't look away because you're scared of her. She'll notice you checking her out and her panties will wet.

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs. If a girl you're checking out sees you and fixes her hair or clothes. You're getting IOIs. If she looks at you, looks away and then looks back at you, you're getting IOIs.

And no matter how you hamster it away to your beta self, it's becuase she thinks you're hot. You might not think so, you might still see an ugly nerd in the mirror, but the women who are checking you out don't. Don't let imposter syndrome stop you from apporaching girls that are very obviously sending you cues; you're wasting oppurtunities. Use these obvious cues to break through approach anxiety; these girls are bascially begging you to talk to them.

Or you could just have something on your face.

Lessons Learned

  • You will become attractive before you yourself realize you've done so

  • If women are staring at you in public places, you're being checked out. Even if you don't think so.

  • If you're being checked out, it's becuase you're hot. Even if you don't think so.

  • Women who groom themselves after seeing you are sending IOIs

  • Never be the first to look away when you look eyes with a girl

  • If she's constantly looking at you don't waste the opportunity and go fucking talk to her


[–]1jcromero81 points82 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Real talk, real IOIs are often WAY more subtle than you'd expect.

  • Instead of staring at you, a girl will desperately try NOT to make eye contact. She's so nervous and filled with attraction she simultaneously wants and yet dreads your attention

  • Girls negging guys. This is usually a sign of an older woman that's been banged out by alphas and has lost or just lacks a lot of her socialization skills.

  • Women and gay men will touch you WAY more. Like they get more physically aggressive and invade your personal space.

  • The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

[–]_the_shape_27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The weirdest thing that happens when you become attractive is that many women won't be your friend anymore. They're no longer interested in you for moral support; they have other beta males to do that. Weirdly, women will respect your time and energy more. This is because they're trying to lay you. However women get discouraged SUPER quickly, so you have to either move super quick or super slow.

Great point, and one caveat to keep in mind is the old saying: "hell hath no fury like a scorned woman".

Women do not typically handle rejection well, especially the higher they appraise themselves. If she thinks highly of herself (i.e. Borderline to full-blown narcissist), outright offers you her pussy, and you friendzone her - hah! Prepare yourself for the reckoning..

[–]Heathcliff-- 18 points18 points [recovered] | Copy Link

There was this one girl who was into me and I had no idea. No idea at all. She was hanging out with me, sending me IOIs, making it super obvious. I didn't see it. I thought she was being super friendly.

One day on the bus to a club while we were all drunk she cussed me out hard in front of all our friends. Screaming at me "I hate you I hate you I hate you".

I had no idea why she was doing this. Still even after that, it took me months to realise "damn, she liked me. Fuck".

Girls get super angry when they're rejected. Guys are too stupid to notice hints.

[–]LexaBinsr16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Meh. I'd say you dodged a bullet if she acted so psychotic.

[–]RamboDonkey 17 points17 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree with this. Women will usually play their cards fairly close to their chest when they do not know you well. If unknown women are making extended eye contact from afar, without really trying to hide it, then you are encroaching upon chad territory. What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot, and drop vague hints, along with perhaps the occasional overt signal. They may start doing favours for you, or suddenly shit test you here and there. IOIs are useful, but just be mindful that women can be very cat-and-mouse about this sort of thing. The women that make solid eye contact from the outset, interspersed with preening behaviours, probably like you so much that you don't even particularly need game.

I don't agree on the friendship part though. I find that women who are not interested will often not proactively make efforts to be friends with you. Women who have a medium level of interest may proactively creep into your friend zone in some ways, perhaps sizing you up. Women with high interest will send the more obvious signals early on, such as sly touching or eye gazing.

[–]2Overkillengine12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What will often happen instead, is that women in your social circle will begin to just be around you a lot

And they will fucking jump on any excuse to be alone with you. The amount of plausible deniability she will require will also decrease the more she wants you.

[–]1StoicCrane0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Friendzone is BB territory. No man should ever tolerate it.

[–]MAWL_SC10 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Women won't be your friend...

This struck me, I've noticed this and wondered why women will be very respectful and complimentary and then not even respond to simple friendly gestures.

Also, the fickleness of female attraction is incredible. So many times I have not been in a position to return female advances due to circumstances or other variables. That attraction turns to disdain, apathy, and even loathing with blinding speed.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You attack their ego and destroy their currency. It’s obviously not appreciated. This is only in specific circumstances where they actually show that they’re mad, most time they’ll hamster it away "he’s probably gay" etc.

[–]1jcromero1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, consider how hurt you've felt when a girl rejected you. Girls are just way more likely to feel rejected just out of regular female insecurity. It's fairly immature. The best remediation is just to start gaming them slowly.

[–]MAWL_SC0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure, but as a man, I don't just toss aside that attraction. Sometimes she's a bitch, sometimes I want to strangle her, but I still want to pound her. Despite my disdain. With women it's different.

[–]vorverk8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha. At social gatherings my ex would literally RUN to the orbiters she was not attracted to. Giving them hugs, kisses, even tease them with rubbing her boobs against them (by accident) and stuff like that. Then when a guy that she was attracted to came close, she completely froze up. Total black out. She couldn't get one word out of her mouth.
So funny, I see a variation of this all the time now. Girl I know is attracted to me hugs everyone around when she comes to a social gathering, but me.

[–]Pumptodump2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

What I really need to know is how do I differentiate between "girls trying not to give eye contact" cause they are shy and like you or "girls that are avoiding eye contact cause they think you're a creep and want you to stop looking at them!!??

[–]1jcromero4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women biologically have a huge peripheral range of eyesight. Typically if they like you they'll keep you in their peripheral line of sight.

If they don't like you they'll usually turn away from you completely, and have very closed off body language.

Also, here's a crib sheet of eye contact rules.

[–]pisspoordecisions0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your last point is so true. All through high school and my freshman year of college I had tons of girls I considered close friends, probably more than my guy friends. Then I joined a fraternity, upped my status, banged a bunch of those girls, and barely talk to any of them anymore...I don't even have close friends that are girls now.

[–]maxbrooksmacbook0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've noticed girls at my corporate job always see me in the hallway and then look down and never look back up at me as they walk by.

I'm from the Midwest so I expect a certain level of friendliness even from strangers walking by. On the east coast I get none of that.

It's fairly disconcerting

[–]1jcromero1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Building relationships out on the east coast just takes time and a certain level of assertiveness. People are just super isolated from one another.

[–]bowie7470 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The amount of female friends I've lost in the past year is ridiculous. I put it down to me not being a beta orbiter anymore // giving her constant free validation.

Once I stopped giving that to them they don't want to hang out anymore. Bitches.

[–]Snufek189 points190 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs.

Damn this swoleshaming, makes life sooo difficult.

[–]TomFoo50 points51 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

watch out for them bitches on r / nice girls and r / legbeards

[–]ioncehadsexinapool8 points9 points  (31 children) | Copy Link

Will lifting naturally decrease body fat? Or should I take care of that first before I start lifting?

[–]_fappycamper55 points56 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Start lifting right away. Don't wait because you will wish you have started sooner.

[–]roflrazz79 points80 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."

  • Chinese Proverb

[–]ACE-JHN19 points20 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

eat calorie deficit while lifting. If you are a noob/haven't trained consistently for a long time. You will get bigger while getting leaner.

Find maintenance calories reduce calories by 300-500 lift 3-5x a week. PROFIT !!!

[–]Luckyluke232 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

i lift like 3 times a week now, I also do cardio some times too ( just for fun really)

say i eat 2.5k calories now, if i drop that down to say 1.8 - 2k would that help? i've been going like 6 months now and I've had no weight change ( though i know i need to work on my diet)

[–]ACE-JHN6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It might help but tracking is the only way to find out. weigh yourself everyday for a week while eating those calories then take the average of 7 days. To keep losing weight either increase activity or decrease calories. I suggest reading some stuff by eric helms and the 3dmj team. I know a lot of info can be found for free online, but the muscle and nutrition pyramid books have been a godsend, literally answered all my questions. Now its all about applying (much easier knowing that i am going in the right direction). Check out the New rules of lifting - 6 moves, my friend plays football and he gained a lot of size and strength following that, my other friend is into oldschool routines and he did the body for life routine from the book and got insane results in a year lost 50 lbs and then lean bulked for 15 lbs. I am on the back to fit program because i am coming from numerous injuries to my knee and shoulder. This was a rant, but i just love this fitness shit now.

[–]Thevoleman3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Calories in, calories out. You're just not tracking your diet, if you do and you're actually at a 500 cal deficit, you will lose weight.

[–]byers189010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd say love ok at the 4 Hour Body man. Nothing to do with number of calories just the kinda of calories.

Depends where you are at though I suppose. Just starting out though you def want to go 6 days on and 1 day overfeeding to trick your homeostatsis so it doesn't get used to x cal intake. Bc then it will ramp down fat burning an you plateau.

[–]dblink0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It absolutely will help. 500 daily calorie defecit comes to 90k average over 6 months. With 3500 calories per pound of fat, that's 25 pounds lost. Just remember to adjust your intake as you lose, or your slowly decreasing maintenance calories amount will meet your current intake.

[–]Don_Keydick3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lifting can be used to burn fat and build muscle, but you should focus more on your nutrition. Look up HIIT cardio and cardio acceleration.

[–]byers189010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

High Intensity Interval Training is a godsend. If not in the mood for that much dedication look into the kettlebell swing.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is a total derail, but I'll answer: Lift.

You can lose fat while gaining muscle. It will happen slowly, but it's possible.

Focus on high-protein meals, with not a lot of sugar or starch.

Basically just eat better in general, be active, lift weight, and you will lose fat.

I have gained about 30 pounds in the last year while significantly lowering body fat percentage. I put on a ton of muscle. I look very different from a year ago.

[–]vagbutters-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You can lose fat while gaining muscle. It will happen slowly, but it's possible.

Is this accurate? I've read from numerous sources that building muscle is only possible at a caloric surplus. I know, for sure, that building strength while lifting at a caloric deficit is possible, however.

[–]1legedu0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's possible. Super high protein diet coupled with a slight calorie deficit can do it. Meal timing becomes way more important and there isn't a lot of room for error in your diet.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In other words it’s pointless and a waste of time, cutting if you’re fat down to a low bf% and then going on a lean bulk will give much faster results and it’s a lot easier.

[–]vagbutters0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much, this.

Also I've heard that meal timing isn't particularly important, though this has never impacted me personally as of yet.

[–]RedPistola1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It'll decrease body fat. Just don't eat an excess of calories when you start. Cut, then bulk.

[–]grewapair2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The answer to your question is generally no. Lifting usually increases appetite, far in excess of the calories burned, and makes it difficult to lose weight.

Plan on burning no more than about 200 calories per hour lifting. You'll usually increase eating by more than that when you lift.

What many people do is to lift, gain a little weight ( the "Bulk" phase) while gaining strength and therefore muscle, then keep lifting while you struggle to lose that weight and more, while limiting or even reversing your strength gains by continuing to lift, but probably not increasing, and possibly even decreasing what you can lift (the "Cut" phase).

So you do them one after the other until you hit the physique you want. You typically do not do a bulk or cut for very long, until you have the body you want, at which point you really try to do neither.

So you might go 4 weeks of bulking and 3 weeks of cutting, then repeat.

[–]byers189010 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Use theromodynamics to your advantage. Namely rinse with cold water for 2. - 5 minutes in the showers.

[–]grewapair0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

.001 calories. Your blood vessels will constrict and your heat loss will be negligible.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I do IF.. lift and eat big 6 days a week, then fast 24-36 hours on the 7th.

[–]1jb_trp0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm on a ketogenic diet with IF. I'll get ~1500 calories/day (trying to cut!) and I'll have my last meal by 5 pm. I work out (rock climbing then lifting) for a few hours and then bed. I don't eat again until 8 a.m. The fat is flying off! Once I lean out a little more, I'll change things up (up my calories, etc.).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I did carb cycling.. Two days no carb, three days carbs.. Course I was already fairly lean 14%.. Cycling works best at the low body fat range over noticed.. Just keep going, it'll drop fast

[–]vagbutters0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it can, but remember that with weight loss, diet is king. People here are suggesting pretty large caloric consumption, which is perfectly fine for people who are consistent. If you have the sack for it, you can cut down to 1200-1500 calories depending on your weight/height and get in enough protein to lose weight at a fast pace.

When I lost 100+ pounds years ago (or when I cut now), I would always mix in cardio into my week. I'd usually lift 3-4 times a week and do cardio on the "off" days (in addition to doing so on lift days). The fat came off ridiculously quickly with this method.

[–]Crailberry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You will burn fat and put on muscle at the same time from lifting. That's what happened to me. I weighed 179 when I started lifting. For the most part I didn't really change weight, but I lost tons of fat, and put on lots of muscle.

Learn to love the gym. Go 6 days a week. Eat enough, and eat healthy.

[–]RationalKing0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Start lifting and eat right. A low carb high fat diet is good for losing fat quickly, at least it worked for me.

[–]PM_Me_Your_BootyPlz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lift while you're losing weight silly.

[–]got_MLK-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fat is all about what you eat. Do cardio first and eat right and you will become lean. Then lift.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That queer on the subway changed your life bro

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor94 points95 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

So, for those guys out there that are getting stared down; you're getting IOIs

If a woman is looking at you for more than is required to get around or away from you, she is interested.

If there is ZERO interest, you are invisible to them.

I just don't understand how so many young men can't accept and utilize this very simple rule.

[–]cazzah12330 points31 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Is it honestly as black and white at this?

Like I something think they might be looking more due to bad things.

I never look at really fucking average woman.

But I will stare are really hot women, and really fucking disgusting woman.

[–]d0lphinsex25 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You on hot women, you on disgusting women.

[–]RealRational8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm just not ever that expressive, neutral face for pretty much everything. Used to get told I looked pissed off all the time, so I practiced making a moderate smile my "default face". That's as expressive as I care to be, I'm not a fucking performer.

[–]d0lphinsex1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Learn to eye fuck. That's the only expression you'll need with women.

[–]RealRational0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, that's pretty much all I do. Then they approach me. I will approach, but it's not my style, so I usually don't and don't really have to.

[–]Heathcliff-- 41 points41 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Ugly guys are invisible to women. If she is allowing herself to be near you, is talking to you, or even just looking at you multiple times, it means there is a shred of interest there.

[–]Fulgidus33 points34 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Or she needs something, just in case you're still not hot enough, which may be the case.

I, for example, still look like a free IT tech support coupon to them...

[–]garrettruskamp22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

^ People need to be aware of this. Guys who haven't raised their SMVs enough are about to make fools of themselves. I really like what OP is doing here- giving confidence boosters but unfortunately the real world not ideal and RP is assuming it is. Nearly everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

Majority of the time, assuming you're high smv, this advice is good.

[–]d0lphinsex9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it's still worth to take potential IOI:s as IOI:s. If they're not but you approach and get shot down, you have at least tried and worked on your AA.

[–]garrettruskamp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, but if you're a low SMV guy (read some posts from new where guys are unsuccessful) then getting absolutely nuked by a girl probably won't help your AA, if not make it worse. However I suppose I could see the flipside of the coin that when you finally do raise your SMV then you can be proud of how far you've come.

[–]AskYouEverything1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Biggest thing is the alpha always assumes interest too. Whenever you meet girls or even dudes you gotta come in with the mindset that you're a 10 and they want your attention. Internalizing that goes a looong way

[–]vorverk78 points79 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You know what's even a better feeling? When you're getting actively ignored. When she is actively trying not to look at you. Hard to explain, you just feel it. She is present, in your proximity, but trying really hard not to give you attention. It always makes me giggle inside. :)

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Haha.. I worked with a girl like this in a restaurant. I'd always catch her checking me out and she'd just give me like this look of disapproval. So I'd usually just use amused mastery with her.. Give her a shit eating grin and say something like "whatcha lookin at? ;)" good times and she'd blush. Pretty funny.

[–][deleted] 111 points112 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I had this problem. When girls check me out I would instantly assume they are talking shit about me. Now if a cute cashier smiles at me. I convince myself that she was into me and not just being nice for her job. Push yourself into that mindset.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The "just doing my job" smile vs IOI smile is wayyyy different too.

[–]vagbutters4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For sure-- you get used to it after a while and can differentiate between the two. Sometimes a bitch is just being polite. When a woman shows an IOI it's subtle yet you can pick it out (eye contact is the biggest indicator from what I've personally seen, and in rarer cases, blushing).

[–]ioncehadsexinapool5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree. I'm sure it does more good than harm.

[–]greatslyfer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was walking down the street with my dog when I see these three girls sitting on a bench on the side of the street.

I walk and walk and as soon as I walk past them I hear them spurt out "Not even a hi huh?"

I thought to myself "ugh... wtf do they want, another group of dickheads" until I slowly realized that they thought I looked good. I've been working out for a while btw lol.

[–]NeckbeardVirgin69-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think OP is right. I get stared down by girls constantly. I'm not even attractive. Lol.

(I'm not ugly either. Just average. Not really fit either.)

[–]Heathcliff-- 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Or maybe you're doing the same thing I did and are hamstering it away. or maybe you just look really weird.

[–]NeckbeardVirgin690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by looking really weird? Just curious. Obviously, you mean something other than ugly, because I already stated that I'm not ugly.

[–]forcevacum84 points85 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

Other things I've noticed-

  • If you are passing by an average group of girls, after you pass all the girls will giggle when you've gone about 5 paces past them. I still haven't figured this out yet but it's like you've gained their approval even though you are walking away from them.

  • On the dancefloor women will back into you as you are dancing. It's fucking rude. They'll flick their hair at you. It's fucking disgusting.

  • At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

  • Plates and old female acquaintances will "turn up" at social events where they aren't expected to be. For example I was at a concert getting a beer at the beer tent and an ex-plate "happened" to be right behind me in line (out of about 20 lines)

I'm 5/10 facially but have moved from a 4/10 to 9/10 body in the past three years so I've noticed these changes as well.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (35 children) | Copy Link

I went to an animal shelter last time I took acid. I walked into the room with the puppies and saw a girl from my work who didn't notice me at first. A few minutes later while I was looking at a puppy I notice her standing right beside me looking at them too. I say hi and she turns to me surprised like "Oh hey it's you" [what a coincidence]. In my mind I'm like oh shit I don't want to talk to someone from work right now but we actually had a nice conversation. The point is that a woman will very rarely initiate conversation but she will give you indications and opportunities for you to do so.

Same with adding you on facebook. Sometimes thats the big step they will take and then it's up to you to message them/open them. Of course not all facebook adds mean this but they sometimes do.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns64 points65 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I went to an animal shelter last time I took acid.

This is the opening line to a pretty awesome novel right here.

[–]i4mn304 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"And then I realized the searing pain caused mentally to me in the aftermath of the nuclear attacks. Bones and dust, bones and dust everywhere. Not a single pupper to be seen..."

[–]Heathcliff-- 42 points42 points [recovered] | Copy Link

No girl will ever add a guy on Facebook that they are not interested in. Full stop. Girls do not need to add betas, they have no interest and have a request list full of ignored adds. But if she sends you a request, it's 99% because she wants your dick. If she initiated the conversation after, it's 100.

[–]lord-denning33 points34 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree. As you know, girls love orbiters who comment on their pics, hit like, etc.

[–]d0lphinsex3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, tell me about it. I lived in the same apartment with a girl for a while (yeah I know, I know) and she was constantly updating her Facebook status and swear if she got few likes. She would also talk about other people's statuses and wonder why they got many likes and so on. Pathetic behavior.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This thread made me pick up an old book I have the I haven't read in years. It's called "the definitive book of body language" if anyone has this I highly recommend reading chapter 15. If not, it's worth the purchase just for that chapter

[–]stagmar24 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If anyone is interested in the book, you can find it online for free as a pdf.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

What do you think about work colleaguess adding you? A girl I haven't really talked to much but work with added me a couple of days ago

[–]vorverk62 points63 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You don't think anything. Keep professional and personal worlds separated.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I needed to hear that advice again.

[–]rigbyismyhomie51 points52 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Keep professional and personal worlds separated.

[–]i4mn300 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's a new girl at work at my place. She's interning for the moment. She shows interest, looks at me couple of times throughout the day. Should I game her?

[–]askmrcia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would. Just ask her if she down for drinks sometime during the week. If she says no... Abort mission. If she says yes good luck

[–]d0lphinsex0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

8 Essential Rules To Surviving The Workplace.

[–]bumblebee_lol1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

well I get what you're saying but some do. A girl from my class recently added me and she is married to a guy in my class...and has a kid. Sure she might still want my D but it be risky af and I think she just wanted to add me for the sake of it. But who knows she might really want me.

[–]mehdreamer1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I disagree. They will add you but never message you. The add is just to boost their ego and have as many "followers" and "friends" as possible to compete with another slut.

[–]i4mn301 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude sorry to say, but I've had 3 bitches (they were 8s) from my college add me and then never reply to message (2 messages in two week spans). Just fucking unpredictable.

[–]wanderer7799 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

How the fuck can you talk to non tripping people when you're tripping? If someone I knew just showed up when I was tripping I'd probably run home and go hide under the bed for several hours.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are fucking brilliant. Animal shelter on acid. My LSD days are over, but that would've made for a really great experience.

[–]2girls1george1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you find that they still continue to do this even though you have already talked before? I find that even guys do this and pretend to not know me, am I doing something wrong ahah

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think if you have had a previous good conversation with a girl before that gave her positive EMOTIONS then she will respond positively to you again and will even want to come and talk to you. The key here is the emotional aspect. People value you based on what you GIVE them. In this case positive feelings or tingles as they say

[–]2girls1george0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So when you have had good conversation with a girl in the past, the next time you saw them, did they come out of their way to say hello or did they do what you explained earlier and wait for you to initiate another conversation? Just curious.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you leave a good impression the person will be more open to you initiating conversation again. Like they might greet you with a big grin or a hello. Or yes, sometimes they do come up and talk to you.

[–]trpthroway12321 points22 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

I get a lot of girls that happen to bump into me one way or another (multiple girls, every time I go out). Most of them look up and say "I'm sorry", the rest are silent.

Not "excuse me" or "oops" or "watch where the fuck you're going asshole". Sorry, or just a meek look, is all they give.

Didn't happen before I got hot. If I got bumped, it was because "I was in their way". No pausing. Never an apology. Now, it seems like almost all of them feel the need to apologize.

They expect you to say "it's ok" or "don't worry about it" and maybe open conversation (they don't carry on, obviously wasn't just a bump while moving past). I used to make a joke, and start a conversation (At least you didn't spill your drink down my shirt! What are you drinking anyway?), but that's what every other guy does.

I've taken to saying "don't be sorry, just be right". Silent girls I just stare down and ask "did you just pickpocket me?"

If nothing else, it starts a conversation with you in the right position, while setting you apart from all the other guys who let them get away with it.

[–]AGallopingMonkey 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

That sounds pretty douchey honestly. But if it works, don't try and fix it I guess

[–]1empatheticapathetic15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You reckon? It's 'polarising' which is what they need to generate tingles. Polite and friendly is boring. The tone he says it in is important as well. If he's visibly pissed off then yeah that's douchey and childish. If he's looking at them in the eyes with a cool demeanour its dominant and full of sexual subtext.

[–]zephyrprime2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It would work BECAUSE it's douchey. Make no mistake about that.

[–]trpthroway1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It works because it's douchey and unexpected (especially to a hot girl that thinks any man should be lucky just to have the opportunity to be bumped by her). It catches them off guard, puts them on defense, and they know they can't apologize their way out of it. You'd be shocked how many offer to "make it up to you" with their number or a drink.

I say it "matter of fact", no anger or disgust, as if it's a life tip. Like "Don't stick your dick in a light socket" or "swim perpendicular to a rip tide".

Obligatory "be attractive, don't be unattractive". This isn't something that works if you're not good looking.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

trying to initiate the ol' rom-com meet-cute

[–]Tie5o1117 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is the female open. You, as the man, need to be the one to actually initiate conversation- but you will get various types of approach invitations such as this. Be simple and normal with an opener in this situation- a "cheers- hows your night going" will usually be enough to get a conversation going.

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Is that all it takes to make conversation in bars? I am soo scared of going to bars, where I don't know anyone, and trying to make conversation/friends. I know I'm a pussy and I'm trying to get over it but it just seems so hard and difficult.

[–]Tie5o112 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you're not trolling- and its hard given the contradiction between your user name and the content of your post- then Yes, just go out and act like its completely natural. Having small talk with a stranger should be extremely routine, and if that's an issue for you- chat up the bartender or the old drunk locals first. Least pressure.

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha, that does in deep make sense.

And yes I assure you I am deadly serious - despite my name. Go look through my post history if you don't believe me!

[–]bigtuna459 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I went to Mexico last year and sat down with my wife next to a table of three hot 18 to 20 year old natives. One looked over and adjusted her hair. The other two looked over and then they adjusted their hair. The first one reacting to the other two adjusted her hair more aggressively. In the end all three were fucking with their hair like they had lice. It was pretty hilarious, I had to look away to avoid laughing.

[–]I_Need_More_Space_5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

May have been a team of hookers. LOL

[–]bigtuna455 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha. No they were daughters/family of the restaurateurs in the area.

[–]Hakametal22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On your first point, I've noticed more that girls will go dead silent when you walk past. It's like their lizard brains just went into fuck-mode in an instant.

[–]TaylorWolf15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude spot on this is my life... I have been training MMA for the past 4 years and after the 1st year I started noticing these IOIs (especially from walking around the mall, the mall is actually an extremely sexual environment everyone is horny)

The backing up on the dance floor is hilarious!

My theory about the girls getting loud after you have passed is that it's a last ditch effort to get you to turn around and acknowledge them. It's always loud and desperate or forced sounding laugh or statement directed right towards your earlobes. Crazy thing is for me this happens just as often if not more when a girl is with a boyfriend or date than girlfriends. It's almost like they are desperately inviting me to Alpha the chump and crush him into the dirt and steal the girl.

Of course when a girl looks at you and then fiddles with her hair or adjusts her top or shorts this is a massive IOI... I get maybe 100 of these a day when I am out in public. Women today are massively horny sluts especially the younger ones. It's so fucking funny and ironic that they wear shorts so short their asses are poking out then try to tug on them as if they could make them magically grow longer and cover more skin. The tugging down on the short shorts is by far my favorite IOI.

It gets more and more intense the more I train and the more "man strength" I develop. (Was skinny AF until my 20s) now I have this phenomena where girls just hover around me wherever I go. They position themselves next to me and expect me to make a bold move (because they are so deserving "what guy wouldn't want to approach me especially this decent looking dude") it's not like I am a 10 either. (Maybe a 9 now hehe check my Twitter for a pic) it really is crazy how they all position themselves near me.

I'm still somewhat in shock and awe by these hens flocking to me and not confident enough in my social skills or game to pick this low hanging fruit unfortunately. By hesitating everything changes with girls who I have encountered more than once. Girls I see regularly at work or the gym quickly change their behavior after a few encounters and steer clear... With maybe a few thirsty glances from across the room to check if the status quo has changed. It seems like they either rationalize that something is wrong with them or something is wrong with me and sort of give up on staying near me. I have a feeling they are used to guys like me as being aggressive approachers and stereotype my manly appearance. Proof that you need to act in the moment and not overthink shit or hesitate.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

At bars they bump into you and still stand there expecting something but they don't initiate conversation.

Better then what I had to deal with.. Some average drunk girl at a bar kept trying to make out with me withing 10 mins of me sitting down last month.. I ended up leaving

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Another one

  • two women are talking while walking in your direction. As they get closer and notice you, the one talking will lose her train of thought and stop talking while she checks you out, before continuing the conversation once they passed you.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You know society is completely fucked when a man's last possible conclusion when getting checked out is that he might actually be desirable. Even then he doesn't believe it for a while.

[–]LexaBinsr1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really. It is better to conclude to yourself that you are desirable than to actually think that you are even if you are not. The first one forces you to improve while the latter gives you delusions of superiority.

[–]Krunjar31 points32 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I've had the weird look before. I don't get it that much though, usually I think those women are kind of insecure and trying to say, "I'm too good for you", but its like a premptive "disgust" as a rejection defence mechanism.

As long as you got their attention, usually they like something about you, ugly guys are invisible to women, apart from maybe truly deformed people who they can't take their eyes off because they're a rare sight.

Heres some others which are funny:

  • The startle / rabbit in headlights: When shes looking down or comes round a corner, and sees you, and obviously is surprised to see you (she hasn't had the chance to prepare or covertly observe). Can be 20 feet away but they look directly in your eyes with a slightly shocked look, and then look down, embarrassed (they don't have time to process whats happening).

  • The eyefuck: They just make it completely obvious, and eye you up when they know you're looking, usually with a big grin on their face. I love this one but they're usually really slutty ;D

  • The constant covert stare: Basically staring at you for ages, when they think you can't see them doing it. Its fun to turn around and meet their eyes, as if to say, "I saw you the whole time".

I get the gay men lookign as well... and had them in bars (not gay bars :P) offer to buy me drinks, and trying to kiss me. Had one guy slobber all over my neck once, I didn't know wtf to do (wasn't expecting it) but thankfully he walked off straight after.

But still I don't think I'm good looking, I know all my "flaws" :/ I just don't think about it any more though, I just focus on doing things right (like lifting, style and game) and seeing what happens, nothing will convince me I'm hot, even a million IOIS or lays, idk why, but I don't let it bother me.

[–]d0lphinsex16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

But still I don't think I'm good looking, I know all my "flaws" :/ I just don't think about it any more though, I just focus on doing things right (like lifting, style and game) and seeing what happens, nothing will convince me I'm hot, even a million IOIS or lays, idk why, but I don't let it bother me.

Only what you tell yourself matters. Start telling yourself that you're hot and you will, in time, accept this as true and give out vibes to others that you know that you're hot and that you know that others think you're hot.

[–]Krunjar3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, its one of my challenges. I find it hard to assume attraction, I always expect girls to find something about me they don't like, I find it hard to believe they would actually be attracted to me completely. I usually am burying those feelings when I'm with girls.

Mostly what I do is hold frame and game, and all the time I just think about "all I have to do is just play it right and I can fuck her", and just ignore what they think of me. I just have fun, think sexy thoughts, and remember to kino/escalate. All that matters is how she responds in the moment. To be honest that probably gives out the same vibe as thinking I'm hot, even though I don't.

I suppose its a bit weird, because when I'm with a girl that obviously likes me, I do feel hot, "to her". But its just, in general, I don't. Its like every girl is different, they can reject you for the same thing that another girl loves you for Oo

So like, walking down the street, see a girl, I have NO IDEA if she'll like me until I've gone through all the shit with her and fucked her, its like fucking is the only true IOI xD And it doesn't even matter how hot she is, she could be ugly and find some sentence I said that she doesn't like, or maybe I had a hair out of place and it wasn't good enough.

I just think that if I was truly hot, things wouldn't be so hard, that it wouldn't be such a numbers game. It seems like hot people get away with a lot, and I don't get away with pretty much anything, I have to be completely on point or its fucked! :D

[–]SetConsumes6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

How does anyone know they're hot?

[–]Eyeswears6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No one ever can. It's why even drop dead gorgeous women still constantly seek validation. All we can ever hope to get are temporary radar pings.

[–]SetConsumes4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men can take their temporary radar pings and figure out where they stand. The higher the SMV of a woman that responds well to you, the higher you must be.

Women seek validation because women are insecure by nature of focusing on ever changing feelings.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah the gay thing can be pretty outlandish lol. I'm still not used to it

[–]ioncehadsexinapool0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh man this comment is getting me excited

[–]xXSoroxXx13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I cannot stress this point enough. I was a tall twig with acne, almost zero confidence past a blown up ego. Once I started working on myself, got swole, pretty clean face, haircut, etc. I noticed people staring at me and I thought they were laughing at me. This really bothered me and I could never figure out why until it just slapped me in the face. "They're checking you out fucker"

[–]AzzyMcGee23 points24 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I lost the upper half of my body in a horrible accident. So lifting is difficult for me.

[–]systemshock869 23 points23 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Damn that's the most important half

[–]stawek16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't make it an excuse to skip the leg day, though.

[–]greatslyfer5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

... I can't even visualize this, what do you exactly mean by upper half?

Like, your arms are missing or some shit?

[–]pizzafapper1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

somethingsomething both arms broken, mum has to help him out

[–]RedDeadCred4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You got a beastly leg press though right?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Upper half? You're just legs and chest?

[–]tabber87-4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Learn standup comedy. Watch every Jim Jefferies and Dane Cook video on YouTube. Chicks dig bro humor.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Standup comedy won't do anything for you when you're missing your head.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Don't you love being rewarded for hard necessary work? I'm sure my fellow ex-skinny bros remember going from flat-chested concentration camp kid to tits bounce a bit when I walk down stairs - that's an equally good feeling. Or benching 200 for the first time. Or a threesome. Or your first commission check.

Those moments where you briefly go "fuck yeah" but then go straight back to work because its only just begun. Live for that.

[–]Heathcliff-- 10 points10 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Walking down the street and big swole dude moving out of my way was my first taste of that.

[–]Crailberry2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Seriously. I wouldn't say that I've had a big swole guy move out of my way yet (or at least that I've noticed), but I have DEFINITELY noticed normal people move out of my way. Even guys with their girls. And actually it bothers me. I'm not used to it at all. I was always the guy who got out of the way for others. Now when I see guys move out of the way for me, I can't help but think to myself "what the fuck are you doing dude?!?". Especially when they're with their girl.

But I suppose I should relish it lol.

[–]turn30left3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Benching 200 isn't really a feat. I'm there now and my chest is still small. 5'11, 165 lbs. Max probably 230.

[–]killking721 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I remember walking down some stairs at Uni after I finally started putting on weight. I noticed my nipples were rubbing against my shirt, and then I noticed my pecs were large enough to start jiggling.

It's nice to see real tangible effects of your work, but that shit keeps me horny all day and it's annoying.

[–]Crailberry0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your nipples rubbing against your shirt and seeing your pecs jiggle makes you horny?

Interesting................

[–]killking720 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the nipple rubbing that gets me. Feeling the pecs jiggle just ups my confidence because I can see results.

[–]you33377 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I feel dumb because I've been browsing this sub way too long to not know but... IOI's ?

[–]corsega17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Indicators of interest. The idea is that women will go out of their way to subtly communicate that they are interested in you. Because you are a man, it is your job to lead and pick up on these, then escalate.

[–]the_steroider4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear22216 points17 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Put on a lot of lean muscle in the last year and have noticed a few of these. more than anything I notice they look "petrified" of me. I'm 5'8 and have a baby face but told that I look like I'm military all the time. It's different than what I'm used to, I wonder if fear is as good an emotion for opening women as general smiles and attraction.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours23 points24 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Fucking right it is. If she keeps looking back, puts her chin down and looks up at you while slightly turned, or over her shoulder, go talk to her. You're the same height as I am, and being intimidating is my go to for getting laid. Don't scare them outright, you don't want her thinking of being in a pit putting lotion on its skin, you want to give off the bad boy vibe. Play up the military look, high and tight or a flattop, not too flashy style, with an aura of comfortable confidence. I'm ex military, so it's how I am naturally.

The more you tease her and make her try to prove herself to you, the easier it will be to get her naked and putting your cock in her fuck holes. Yes, plural. I never have a girl turn down anal or head, they usually ask for it or offer my choice of orifice. Since we aren't overly stretched, we can look absolutely massive and lift more than the tall guys, so play to your strengths, it will pay off great when you're my age and 18-28 year olds are giving you "Please fuck me" looks.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"It puts the lotion on its skin" is my next chatup line. Gotta remember not to smile tho'

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It can be lots of fun. That is a running joke with my girl who just left this morning after a weekend of carnal knowledge.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear2220 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Could you elaborate on the don't scare them outright bit?

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pulling a gun on them might be a bit much. Being creepy because she isn't attracted to you doesn't work, but if she is digging on you, almost anything you say or do will be fine by her.

[–]tartarus2 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy Link

How do you gain 'lean muscle'? I'm 5'8 with baby face too, but any small weight I gain right now goes to my fucking face

[–]Endorsed ContributorMetalgear2223 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Work out, don't be afraid to go heavy, eat more, do compound motions and lifts

[–]1Jax7778916 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah I really want to add : women interested in you will say "hi" or "hello" as you pass by.

I got that a lot after swallowing the pill but I would reply back without engaging in a conversation. Do not be as dumb as I was. Now I know it is a massive IOI.

[–]jab10238 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To add to this:

I've noticed that even women who you just say hi to will suddenly start saying, "How are you/How's it going and they might use your name. This is more than just pleasantries in most cases. They are trying to extend the conversation.

[–]Magnum0074 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I had a girl compliment my shoes at the gym (they are sick jean coloured converse shoes). Since I was training and DGAF about anyone when I'm in the gym, I just answered "yeah thanks, my mom bought them for me. She even wrote my name in them in case I lose them".

She laughed. I walked away feeling mighty fine. I then immediately fucking destroyed my 50 meter 240lbs farmer's walk.

[–]stawek15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick. Almost certainly. A woman who notices an attractive guy will almost straight away groom herself to ensure she's looking at her prettiest.

There is an exception.

If they somehow rearrange their clothing to cover themselves, you are creeping them out and they want to avoid attention. It could be something like checking their top if it has big cleavage opening, or making sure their skirts are properly covering everything, or even holding bag to their chest to cover themselves. If you walk into a room and a girl sitting there in miniskirt suddenly makes sure her skirt isn't revealing anything - forget about her. If she perceived you as an alpha she would gladly let her clothes "accidentally" reveal more skin.

Any revealing and opening movements are IOIs, anything opposite, like closing body posture, covering with clothes, using objects to cover, turning away, shows lack of attraction. It could also mean she perceives you as beta whom she wants to catch, so she instantly starts playing a good girl. If you are loaded, it could be IOI.

[–]Pumptodump0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Is the hair fixing done subconsciously most of the time? Or are they fixing their hair to show you that they are interested?

[–]DJGammaRabbit6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This happened to me going from 285-165lbs. It didn't click at all until I overheard two coworkers:

you have to stop staring at DJGR

i know but he's so hot

Mind blown.

[–]NaughtyFred15 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Serious question.

Is there any reason I am starting to occasionally see this behaviour in women around me (hb4-7s) that isn't to do with them finding me attractive?

I have been hitting the gym, grooming/dressing/behaving better but I'm in no way "hawt" yet.

[–]SetConsumes7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They can find your change in attitude attractive too. But essentially, if she's looking at you, it's because you've caught her interest and must be at least somewhat attracted.

[–]forcevacum17 points18 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Occams razor my friend. For every cm your arms are bigger you bypass thousands of other guys in the smv contest.

[–]NaughtyFred0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This does make sense. In my city the men my age are either fat or very skinny, the young men...dress like girls? Their pants and tshirts look like girls pants and tshirts, and very few of them exercise.

[–][deleted] 0 points0 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]tallwheel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Occam brand razors give the best shave! Try them out for yourself.

(LOL. No. Try googling it.)

[–]AttackOnKvothe6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's what YOU think! ;D

...no homo.

[–]thebrandedman9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hell, homo compliments are compliments too

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol man,it doesn't take long to elevate yourself with the gym. Even one month of semi-serious training and a stricter diet will result in you looking better, whether you realize it or not. Improved grooming and dressing alone will inflate your smv quite a bit, working out or not. Unless youre grotesquely obese or a holocaust looking motherfucker, small improvements will inflate your smv quite a bit

[–]ioncehadsexinapool0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I doubt it. Would you ever look at a girl more than is required if you were zero percent interested in her?

[–]OzzyDaGrouch0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Your posture changes a lot when you work out everything correctly. Your body movements are more manly and rigid.

[–]NaughtyFred0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems /u/GayLubeOil was right about deadlifts making you walk like a man.

[–]d4n0wnz7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Girls are usually indirect about this kinda stuff. I've made the transition from depressed out of shape gamer nerd, to healthy and more confident, in shape mid 20 year old. I was completely caught off guard when this first started happening to me. Girls at random social events would find an excuse to start talking to me. Some real examples I've encountered: asking for a drag of my ciggarette, talking to me at a porta potty line, offering me water/gum randomly, a bartender complimenting my shoes. It only took me about 10000 failures of obliviousness to realize that I've become decent looking and should seize these opportunities.

I have yet tried to initiate a convo with a stranger at a non conventional spot(coffee shop, gym,etc) although I get body language cues to do so. I'd say the best tool to have in your toolkit is the ability to read these cues (girls fixing their hair, facing towards you, eye fucking). Man up... its your choice to act on these opportunities. No matter how good looking you may be, no girl is gonna throw herself into your arms. And also no matter how attractive you are, you to need to carry yourself as a valuable, confident, non creepy/awkward person to reach the finish line.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Another did the same thing, fixed her hair when I met eyes with her. I looked away quickly. "Damn, can't have her thinking that I'm stare-raping her".

You had moved up in the world but on the inside you were still the beaten-down beta.

[–]GnomeSkill5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think the moment I realized I might be better looking then I thought(back when I was still a recovering beta) was when this super hot chick just happened to get on the treadmill next to me even though there where 8 other ones opened up because the gym was empty at that time, then after about 12 minutes pulled out one of my ear buds so she could ask me about the sporting even that was on the tv at the time then proceeded to have conversation afterward. my buddy who was working there at the time was like "dude you get that chicks number?" being the beta I was I thought she was just being friendly but later realized I probably could of landed the lay or at least got her number.

-lesson learned girls don't initiate first contact unless they are interested

[–]Laz_The_Kid 10 points10 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Similar story happened to me. I was lifting free weights early in the morning in the gym in front of the 25 foot wide mirror one day. I noticed this one chick who would literally walk right in front of me while I lifting and bend over and do stretches. Keep in mind it's early and there was barely anyone else there. She would stretch in front of me, walk away to some machine, and then every few minutes like clockwork she would walk right in front of me again. Once she even looked back at me before stretching, as if checking to see if I was noticing her.

[–]jackandjill226 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yea, girls when interested often find ways to invade your line of sight so you can view their assets. Perfect example was probably 2 days ago.

Was in the shade in a Hammock relaxing in a public area. Girl & her friend immediately catch wind & move to an adjacent hammock directly facing mine, her friend starts doing(the cuter ones) hair & she starts turning over in different positions.

  • She lays on her stomach with her back facing my direction.

  • She lays down & puts her legs up & spreads them.

I kind've stare shocked at the behavior & her friend giggles every time I gaze towards their direction.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

she lays on her stomach with her back facing my direction

so.. you were on the roof as a spiderman or where the fuck were you located :)))

[–]jackandjill220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would you rather me say,"She layed face-down so her ass was in my direction"?

[–]ACE-JHN6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

FUCK.... I worked out, flossed everyday, whitened teeth, maintained my hair (have had a decent hairstyle for 2yrs), and lost 30 lbs. 20 year old male here, first day of junior year of college. Caught random girls and guys looking at me and did the "fix hair" or "look away fast". I honestly just thought i looked like shit.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy crap women have been like this to me for the past year. Thank you op for making me realise I'm hot.

[–]yomo8616 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are the only one who counts. Do not give a shit what men say and from this standpoint much less what fickle creatures like women say or even think.

[–]metallica114 points5 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Even after massive physical self improvement (body that could be on boxer brief modeling ad, fitted clothes, etc), I still do not get these looks from women. It took me a LONG time to get to 10% bodyfat while keeping a high level of muscular strength.

I am not facially super attractive...maybe that has to be it?

[–]Laz_The_Kid 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I have a hard time believing that if you actually have a body fat percentage of 10% that people don't stare even if you're shirtless. I was walking back from my campus pool one afternoon and I hadn't brought my change of clothes. I have about 12% bf, and some guys stared but nearly every girl I passed at least took a glance at me. Some longer than others but they all looked.

[–]metallica110 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

oh! they stare, but its never women. It's always guys. I remember going to the beach one time and some guys asked what my workout routine was, ended up hanging with them and grilling. At the same time I walked past a group of girls and none of them even noticed I existed...kept to their smartphones etc.

[–]GnomeSkill3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Walk with your chest out and in proper posture. Update your style/ hair cut. You need to be able to project an aura that shows confidence and dominance. A little while ago a guy posted about how he was at a concert and said even though he is the friendliest guy in the world when he was walking around every mother fucker around him would step out of the way when he walked and all the chicks would stare him down. After reading that post I started working on it and it has helped tremendously It is hard to explain. Also make sure you always walk staring straight forward never down or up so that way you catch eye contact with everyone that passes. never break eye contact until they do

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That post was ridiculous. Glad it helped you, though. I live in a small town and if I played that bullshit eye contact game everyone would think I'm a dickhead or retarded.

[–]GnomeSkill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

not breaking eye contact is a pretty common theme among TRP

[–]metallica110 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

totally get the aura of confidence part..maybe it is because I walk a little too fast

[–]GnomeSkill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yep slow your walk down. Chest out, Move your shoulders a little. not too much though so you don't just look like a douche. If you read Models by Mark Manson It will help greatly

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I always speed walk everywhere. Like I'll make a conscious effort to walk as fast as possible. I guess I'm not the only one then.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude I'm cracking up as to how you have that name and gotten it past the censors. I'm shocked really

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I post regularly here and in Trump subreddits as well. I'm as surprised as you are.

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Could you clarify on the eye contact part? How do you never break eye contact if you are still walking forward past people?

[–]GnomeSkill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When walking forward you keep it until you get to the breaking point most people will look away before you do, If a chick keeps eye contact you can probably stop and talk to her

[–]Laz_The_Kid 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Must be the area you live. If you're from LA where every other guy is jacked and most girls look like models, then you might get ignored just because people are used to other good looking people. You'll definitely get stares in any part of the country where most people are average in looks or on college campuses since most liberal schools are majority female and the males that attend them tend to be skinny, pale, nu males who have never stepped foot in a gym.

[–]metallica111 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

nah, there are a ton of overweight people around where I live. Whats odd is not that girls don't look at me, its that SO MANY guys look at me/older folks yet no girls look at me. I'd say half of guys look at me for more than usual...especially if they are out of shape etc.

but if you stick a group of 6 girls walking down the street right in front of me approaching me they would slam into me if I didn't move.

It's very odd

[–]Laz_The_Kid 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Hmmm. Idk what to tell you then, except maybe there's a possibility that either you or your style exudes a homosexual vibe. That's the only reasoning I can see for your problem.

[–]metallica111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah, it's very odd. I do dress more metrosexual, but that is more because it what works for me. It would be very hard for me to pull off the manly facial hair/beardy look. I can't grow any.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Self esteem is everything.

If you don't carry yourself confidently or with arrogance women will perceive you as weak no matter how you look.

[–]1animal_one5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 6'4". At 19 years old, I was 141lbs. At 25 I was 160. Fast forward to a month ago and I'm 30 years old, 200lbs lean muscle. I'm sitting in a bar on a date with a petite Russian beauty, and she keeps pawing at my bare arms and calling me a brute. It's fucking surreal to have 30 years of reference experiences telling you that you're the tall, gawky kid people make auschwitz jokes about, to becoming someone women physically desire on a visceral level.

[–]SmokeyMcBlunt2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

OP, how do you rate your face?

[–]Heathcliff-- 18 points18 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Asymmetrical, but my mum says I'm pretty.

True say though my face got "better" when I started framing it with a better haircut and put on some cheek and jaw pudge. At my skinniest I looked way too gaunt, my long hair just hid my face too and made it look too thin.

I also started shaving more often. I still have yet to develop a decent stubble/beard: so when I don't shave I look like a teenage boy who's just had his first chin pubes sprout. It gives my face an odd shadow and accentuates the wrong parts. When I shave I look older and more masculine.

[–]Magnum0074 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"but my mum says I'm pretty"

[–]jackandjill220 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you're seriously attractive your parents don't tell you. They actively hide it from you.

[–][deleted] 5 points5 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]DarkConquerer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think height matters a lot more than guys think it does. If your tall and have good facial aesthetics/hair, I don't think that anyone woman would care much that you were 145 pounds. Now obviously getting bigger would make you more attractive, but you were probably top 20-30% of men in terms of attractiveness anyways, assuming what your saying is true.

[–]hoodbgoode3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

this thread depresses me I'm not facially attractive or tall

[–]The1WhoCsAll2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

...but if you can pick up enough 45lb plates in the gym and resist enough unhealthy plates in the kitchen, you can maintain enough female plates to satisfy yourself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lift and go for massive success. Unless you are VERIFIED unattractive then muscle will help and so will your success

[–]-proof3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

And for those of us with receding hairlines..?

[–]Rhythmic6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lots of testosterone lead to hair loss.

Baldness can be very sexy. Except when you feel insecure about it.

Insecurity is an inside job. Stop self-sabotaging.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been on a cruise for the last two years and I think my hair is thinning. <shrugs>

[–]LexaBinsr0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Shave your hair to bald and grow a beard.

[–]-proof2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And if you're not 100% at that point yet? where a receding hairline probably looks better

[–]The1WhoCsAll1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It doesnt look better. You just dont want to let go of those hairstyle bonus SMV points

[–]LexaBinsr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

http://www.evolvehairclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hair_replacement_therapy.jpg

You should start if you get to 3 vertex.

[–]Guillaume923 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

A similar thing happened to me when puberty hit when I was like 13. Before that hardly any women hit on me, or gave me much attention. A few did, but literally over night something changed and girls just started staring at me in class all the time, at shopping malls, girls would even ask to take photos of me randomly in shopping malls. Being good looking is literally like being a celebrity, more so if you're a male even.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

THIS right here! There was an idiot who I'm guessing is a verified ugly guy who attacked my comment on how looks is the most valuable currency you can ever have by trying to push money as the way to go. It's not... having good looks will trump money anyday since you'll be getting easy money BY having good looks!

I'm not "there" 100 percent yet but I have had some shocker moments like earlier today paying LESS money for some towels I bought since the chick didn't scan one of them or having panda express for free. Coming from being acne scarred with nasty ass holes during high school and college its been a shocker. I look forward to improving more and more in the face (body as well).

[–]Guillaume920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People who don't realise how important good looks are are living in a fantasy/haven't woken up to reality.

The male version of hamstering is believing that you can succeed in any area if you put work into it, that our success reflects our choices and freedom. In reality successful people are born successful, mostly. People can't fathom that so much is out of our control, that there's a limit, an upper ceiling, to how much you can improve by lifting and game.

That said, you can improve quite a lot from self-help, appearance improvement, game etc.

It's just overstated.

And of course being good looking doesn't automatically get you girls. Men still have to make the first move. Even when a girl is literally throwing herself on you, she still is waiting for your initiative, your moves, and you can still very easily fuck up.

Edit: face matters much much much more than body for women, IMHO.

[–]Disillusi0n3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You ever been standing in line at the grocery store or something and a girl is in front of you with another guy and she looks back at you then starts shit-testing the crap out of her poor boyfriend?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ive lost about 15 kg in the last year, and that was the main thing it took to make the difference that you speak of. The irony is it was my LTR cheating on me that caused it and not even in a healthy, going to the gym way. Ive been living on what are basically ready meals and my stress has been pretty high, which apparently has been enough to shift quite a lot of weight quite quickly. Ive also been drinking 4/5 nights a week which kills my appetite the next day.

This can't sound good, but my attraction level has apparently risen quite a bit. Now, Im getting the looks and whatnot. I wasnt catching onto it either but they end up telling you when theyve had a few drinks that they think youre hot.

When I was lifting it never happened. I guess I mustve just looked fat, not known how to show it off properly or that I dont really suit muscles.

Even further irony is that this Ive had a big problem with my skin for a while, and it decided to move to my face before the summer and stick around despite multiple trips to the derm. So Im a skinny(ish) dude with a red face but Im somehow getting more attention than I can remember.

Perhaps the real story though is that it was always there, but I was too cowed by my ex to realise it properly. When you're living with someone you've got that pressure on you to fucking text them loads, think bout what's for dinner, what to do at the weekend, what to watch that night, blah blah. I think that in an LTR, you chance losing all sense of your SMV and you lose touch with the very basic rules of attraction.

[–]LarParWar1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Whatever you do, DO NOT use topical steroids or anything with a corticosteroid as an ingredient.

They will fuck your shit up like nothing else. If you doubt, search for "red skin syndrome".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for letting me know about this. I have been using them on and off for many years, and no doctor had told me. Actually, what is on my face is just what has been on my body so I dont think it is this, but I could be a prime candidate for acquiring red skin syndrome I think. Fuck knows I might have the early stages already. Ill mention it to the derm when i go next. Thanks again, being aware of something is the most importnat thing!

[–]LarParWar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Red skin syndrome at its essence is basically the withdrawal symptoms of your skin's addiction to corticosteroids. Your skin knows that it isn't supposed to have that much of the corticosteroid hormone floating around so it stops producing its own. So when you stop using the corticosteroid, your skin isn't producing its own corticosteroid hormone and the symptoms you experience are from a lack of natural corticosteroid in your skin.

So when you, as a person addicted to this substance, use a corticosteroid, you're replacing the corticosteroid that you should have in your skin, but don't. But in doing so, your skin downregulates its response to the hormone even further. It's a downward spiral into insanity, and the only way to heal is to just go complete cold turkey no matter how bad the symptoms are and how long they last.

Depending on how badly your skin is addicted, it may be very, very bad and last for a very, very long time. The temptation is to simply use the steroid, but if you do you will be using it for the rest of your life, and it will be damaging your skin the entire time. The dermatologist will keep ratcheting up your prescription with stronger and stronger creams, and you will have to apply them to a larger and larger area. Eventually it may stop working entirely no matter how much you use. If it gets really bad you may go into adrenal shock. It certainly messes with your adrenals big time.

None of the dermatologists know about any of this. They're convinced these corticosteroids are a magic substance that heals all. I talked to eight different dermatologists personally, three of them at a very high-end clinic, and none of them knew about this. When you do talk to your dermatologist, ask them how many patients they have with what you have—they'll probably call it "atopic dermatitis"—how many of them use the steroid creams, and how many of them ever get better.

You'll likely hear something like, "oh, it's a lifelong condition, we don't know what causes it, and you'll have to use more steroids for the rest of your life to 'control' it".

They're wrong.

[–]jab10232 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I relate to "impostor syndrome" big, big time. It reminds me of the song lyric I've become spectacular, which is strange cuz I feel dumb

Good post.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

haha yeah it's definitely jarring when you get attention like that for the first time (s). You'll get used to it, but goddamn is it super uncomfortable at the outset. When you've lived in a subpar body for over a decade, with massive self esteem issues to boot, there will be significant growing pains. This is amplified even more if you're still a virgin or something. Just gotta get used to it

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Don't just dress well. Dress for your age

I could use help on this subject.

[–]slutnip2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

roll your eyes at them instead of staring back, lol its fun and they get even wetter

[–]rp_phoenix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Love this post. Great confidence booster to guys still on their way up. Having a high SMV makes everything easier newbies, please understand. If a girl looks at you and wants you inside her, all you have to do is not fuck up and be a boring ass dude when you approach, and you're golden. SMV is king.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I went through this a few years ago.. I've actually been lifting for over 20 years at this point.. However, a year after I completed a marathon I started getting a belly (thanks to an injury).. My gf at the time said it was a cute belly. I told her I could lose it easy and she laughted..

The next 8 weeks I got lean, like competition lean. Next thing I know even girls extremely way to young started flirting.. Started getting free coffee at the coffee shop. Cashiers would remember me week to week.

Then I went to a family function. One of my cousins looked at me and said, "jesus fucking Christ how did you get soooo ripped?" That's when it finally hit me.

[–]LarParWar0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

How many hours of cardio do you do?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hours? At the time I ran 3 days a week.. Not jog, but straight up 25 minute all out run

[–]LarParWar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What did you change? Did you add the high-intensity running, cut out the carbs, or both?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read fat loss 101 on kindle

[–]40_SixandTwo6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I've had this problem a ton in the past year. I'd been boxing and lifting constantly, I went from Trevor Reznik looking to Edward Elric.

I go to a very small college and there was a chick in a few of my classes who I was very attracted to. The only two problems were I was to nervous to talk to her and I was oblivious to the signals.

I was walking out of the parking garage at school one night while she was going in, I made eye contact and said hello, as I walked by, she gave me a nervous smile and didn't say anything. This happened many more times over the year. Even if I was in her vicinity, talking to someone else, she would look over to me with that nervous look, and still act like she was pre-occupied with something else.

Because of how oblivious I was, I'd convinced myself that she wasn't interested because she wasn't pouncing on me right then and there, or coming up and talking to me. I wouldn't talk to her out of fear of rejection. As I think and laugh about it, I'm convinced she was cautious about talking to me because she had the exact same thought process as me, but that roles were reversed and she was out of my league.

It happened more and more as the semester went on with other women I'd been around as well. In my opinion the biggest mindset I have to kill is that women who are interested will aggressively pounce on you, which sometimes may be true. What I'm seeing is as I up my attractiveness is they seem more shy, reserved and awkward as I interact with them.

[–]jackandjill225 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Definitely depends on the girl. Some girls depending on your SMV don't waste time. They've been searching for those tingles & every other dudes failed to show up on their radar. As soon as you've passed their litmus test they've already decided immediately you're what they're looking for.

[–]40_SixandTwo3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the other cause for it is most of the women in my classes already have awkward and reserved personalities to begin with.

I'm studying a field that attracts people who are socially strange.

[–]jackandjill221 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I see, interesting.(your username a Tool reference?

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You can gain muscle at a very slight caloric deficit if your diet is high enough in protein. Remember that you will burn enough fat very day to compensate for the caloric deficit, thus giving your muscles the "fuel" they will need for muscle growth.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

yes, lots of protein and hard trenning will do wonders for body composition.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

I have only barely heard of tren, and don't know what it's used for outside of the fact that it's a PED.

I don't use it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Consider it one day, you'll love it.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you use it? What's your experience been with it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes I do - you build muscle even with a caloric deficit and burn fat and build muscle - basically it's great for recomping. You can do fasted cardio in the morning without risking muscle loss (which is great for cuts) and if you keep your estrogen low it keeps you from putting on fat (messes with the fat building mechanisms - wont stop completely but makes it harder for you to put on fat). You get crazy horny too. The only side effect (and a common one) is insomnia (75mg everyday).

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Is it oral or injected?

What undesirable sides have you had, if any?

How long have you been on it, and what other PED's are you using?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Injected - there's oral tren but I would not recommend it since it is pretty heavy on the liver - although it is still pretty safe to use it if you don't have any pre-existing liver conditions and you keep your dosages sane and get bloodwork done to watch your liver values. I would stick with injected though.

Right now just testosterone and tren, been on testosterone for > 2 years ("blast and cruise" - http://forums.steroidal.com/anabolic-steroids-forum/730-maintaining-size-blast-cruise-trt-guys.html), did a previous run of tren for three months, now I'm doing it again, just started two weeks ago.

I did research steroids for 2 years before taking the plunge (pun intended), so you can check out the steroids subreddit and Anabolics and research for yourself. Overall, it is pretty safe to use anabolics if you keep your dosages sane, watch your body (bloodwork every 6-8 weeks) and you have no pre-existing conditions (bad liver/kidneys, etc) and PCT properly (which I don't worry about in my case because I never come off).

[–]AnnFranklyMyDear1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't lift because I'm not really full TRP yet, but I'm 6'5 and classically handsome. I am one of the lucky ones who is a good looking guy without much effort. I was the biggest beta of all time. I used to think people stared at me because I looked strange, but when I got to the end of my twenties I realised people, usually women, were checking me out. It was such a rarity that anybody ever told me I was attractive that I spent ten years thinking I was a freak.

As I walked past them in the street they would stare at me with an anxious frown, then when I caught them they'd look away or look at the floor while playing with their hair.

Women will be discreet about it. You have to be looking for it to notice it. If you really need the validation and reassurance that you're attractive (we all do at some point) then just watch women as you walk past them. See if they glance at you and look to the side or at the floor as if they're worried you'll catch them.

It's actually pretty adorable.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women will be discreet about it.

You are being too nice. Women are not just discreet, they are shit-scared to put themselves out there and risk rejection. I have this girl in my office that fancied another co-worker but she never said a word to him, even tried to get another co-worker to gauge the guy's interest in her (which he never did). As far as the guy is concerned, the girl doesn't even know he exists, but there she is, head over heels over him and he's completely oblivious to it because he keeps mostly to himself at the office and she's just deathly scared of going up to him and asking him to see a movie or even saying "you look handsome today".

As for OP's talking about lifting and looking progressively better, I agree and that's kinda happening to me too. After a 3 months cut my GF let slip that some girl at the church commented with her that I'm looking handsome - she still won't tell me who (mate guarding) though. Made me think back about all the times girls had an interest in me but never said anything (and being socially retarted, I couldn't process their subatomically-faint hints) and I just discover it later through mutual friends or the girls themselves, after months/years.

EDIT: remembered other situations too - a gay friend of mine told me that "only you think you're not attractive" and that more than once friends of his (male and female) asked him about me when I commented on his FB posts (his sister included) - and he only told me that because it came up in the middle of another conversation, otherwise I would've been completely oblivious to it.

[–]Guillaume920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

but when I got to the end of my twenties I realised people, usually women, were checking me out. It was such a rarity that anybody ever told me I was attractive that I spent ten years thinking I was a freak.

Not really sure how you could go through your entire twenties and not realise...?

Saying that, it is rare for men, even good looking men to be told they are good looking. Men often don't know which other men are good looking, and if they do, they won't mention it. And women are rarely that forward, the women who are that forward are usually loud and forward in other things as well, so their opinion not really is the best.

It makes me remember a piece a woman wrote about dating good looking guys:

"Really good looking guys don’t know they’re really good looking.

OK, so some do, and are total dicks about it, but the majority don’t. I once went out with a guy who was the closest thing to a living, breathing Adonis statue you can imagine. Women would literally turn their heads and gasp as he walked down the street. The first night I met him I asked what it was like to be told how beautiful you are everyday of your life and he looked confused.

At first I thought he was trying to play it cool and be all humble about it, but he’d honestly never been told how handsome he is. People either (wrongly) assumed that he was a douche and didn’t need to be reminded in case his head exploded, or thought that he got told so regularly that it would be like asking him if he had the time.

Handsome men aren’t approached by women half as often as average-looking ones, because everyone assumes that they aren’t pretty enough for them and that they’ll be rejected. They often thereby have no idea how good looking they are. They’re usually completely oblivious to the doors their looks open, and presume that everybody gets free coffee from Starbucks. I’ve never gotten free coffee in my life and believe me, I’ve tried."

[–]Nikelu1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You have no clue how close this post hits home. I thought I have a problem . I wouldn't call myself a 10 but more like 7-8+ . I was an alpha-looking beta . I was getting looks everyday and every hour. I was asking my friends what's wrong and if I have something dirty on me or anything or if they are getting checked out as well and they told me no. I thought I had a psychosis . Until one day I look back. How many girls looked at me and smirked when I looked back how many succeses I had with women I approached and gamed how many ons I had with zero lmr and I give myself a good look in the mirror. Hell for god sake I look better than at least 80% of the dudes out there. I was pretty lucky to get good genetics , nice facial hair and a good face and I was a swimmer from the age of 5 till now. Slapped with a good 2 years of gym I am near my peak . Women will try to even avoid you to not show interest while their pussy is wet as fk. Stop wasting time.

By the way how to cold approach tho ? Just go and say hey whats up? Its not so common in my country to cold approach . But tbh everytime i do it or sm1 else comes up to me I feel really good and it makes my day. So I suppose it's the same for them as well

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Must be Scandanavian. The unspoken red pill truth is that White guys (more specifically Scandanavians) are very good looking.

Definetly be grateful because life is great as a good looking guy as I'm sure you can vouch for it

[–]Nikelu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Greek . Definitely life is a bit easier. I can even see the difference the same people behave towards me vs my friends /others .

[–]I_Need_More_Space_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This may have already been commented. But as your SMV increases, women will begin to let you go first in a doorway, they will begin to apologize much more for many things that don't even need an apology (like walking in front of you slightly cutting you off and looking back over the shoulder, but there was still plenty of room), women pretty much start to pedestalize YOU. Not all women do that. But, its a good sign you're on the right track.

[–]bigdickedtyrone 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you sure that women fixing her hair after looking at you is always an IOI?

I heard that women do this just unconsciously, for usually no reason at all. So many women at my work do this when they see me. I doubt all of them find me attractive.

[–]1ItsTheHomeWrecker0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]bigdickedtyrone 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

probably because it's just a habitual reaction when they see any human being? I mean, women care a lot about their appearance right? They wanna look good at all times, even in front of their girlfriends.

[–]1ItsTheHomeWrecker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]PabloEscoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

True we are not lifting weights for wimen

[–]RMK240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take this stuff with a grain of salt. While it is good advice, by OP's logic, every girl that looks at you could be interested when that's not the case.

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It still throws me off sometimes. I grew up fat so that's what I notice, despite the obvious gains and that I've grown into my looks quite well. I didn't realize I'd come as far as I have until recently. I started to realize girls would touch my arms for seemingly no reason. They stare in the subway. They'd hover around me. Some would make small talk. A lot of my female friends act differently around me too and made me realize why men and women can't really be friends. Either way it's nice to be headed to the other side of the af/bb equation.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Props to hear that. Shits always good being on the other side having them dying to meet you literally. I bet you realize all this "game" shit is a joke and non existent.

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Game is just social dynamics at play. It's all how confidant you are and how much yourr willing to deal with bullshit. I've known that since I was a kid. In remember in grab 5 we used the term towards dudes and it hasn't changed, it's just become some kind of cult phenomenon. Even before any of this real change I still had enough pride in myself to get some pussy, and I didn't have a clue about anything.

People who try really hard to game chicks are trying too hard. That's my opinion. It always has been. Just go with the flow and enjoy the interaction while focusing on yourself and your own life. That's literally all there is to it.

[–]Eyeswears0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If they touch or fix their clothes or hair straight after seeing you, it means they want your dick.

Aside from stawek, any pros care to weigh in on this. Because a guarantee is a beautiful thing.

[–]stawek1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read "What every body is saying" by joe navarro

The main point of body language is you can't read what it means, only that the person is more or less stressed or uncomfortable.

Touching hair or face is a self-calming behaviour. Think about a toddler sucking on a pacifier - it gives the brain a lot of neural input so it can distract itself from stressful situation.

You can't know just by that if she's stressed cause she likes you (kind of like most men feel talking to a 9) or stressed cause she's scared of your attention.

A huge tell is her voice. Hard to spot on somebody you just met (cause you don't know her default pitch), but pay attention to chicks you know when they talk on the phone to her boyfriends. Within 5 seconds you know if their BF is alpha or beta. Talking to beta is same as talking to anyone else but when they start chatting to a Chad their whole speech mellows, slows down and gets a little quieter. That loud chick that frequently shrieks will turn into soft spoken "nursery teacher" voice instantly.
Men do the same. Which is a huge tell for females, of course, and one of the fastest ways to lose attraction.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I... What? Why are you upset about this?

Look. It's perfectly reasonable to lose fat while getting fit and gaining muscle.

Have you never seen a fat kid come back from boot camp?

Really. I promise.

[–]Endorsed ContributorHeathcliff--0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Crailberry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe that was supposed to be a reply to another user's comment.

[–]GunsGermsAndSteel0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I was trying to reply to someone else.

[–]Forcetobereckonedwit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's amazing how slow we are as men, to realize these things. It's true though. I can judge how well a haircut came out, how well a clothing combo works, by how many double takes I get.

Not getting any? Reassess your habits.

[–]dashthegreat6660 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm brand new to the sub what's an IOI

[–]belize3000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

An indication of interest (IOI)

[–][deleted] 1 points1 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]stawek0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It means nothing. She is aware of your presence, that's it.

To be more exact: it means something, but you cannot know what it is. It is a deliberate action on her part, which means it isn't an honest tell. Body language can only help you when it's instinctive, immediate and unconscious.

It could be her trying to look good for you, her covering her ass cause you're creepy, or just her habit of always checking her skirt after standing up.

[–]Friendly_B0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I got a new rad haircut today, and moved slow, minding my posture. This was happening to me all night. I had this article in mind so I was being a little self-conscious but I think I tune that out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wanna see a pic of this hot guy

[–]Temperfuelmma0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was at this event and I had to leave my chair to go to the restroom. When I came back there was this really good looking chick who I'd never have had a chance in my beta years sitting on my seat.

She stood up the moment she saw me as if out of respect, said sorry and started to move out, I told her it was fine and sat next to her in a nearby seat. I could almost see her giggling like a little kid for getting to sit next to me.

It's like I was some kind of God, although I acted cool throughout the interaction I was actually quite surprised.

Women treat you like a God once you get to that level I shit you not.

[–]mesershmit0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Belive me or not i am in the same situation. Years ago i was just pretty face with holocaust survivor body. On average,5 of 10 would check me out. Now when im buffed,very low fat,lean tone and close to ideal adonix index ratio 9/10 would check me out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Crazy how filling out a bit gives a pretty face good look boost. I bet you're low BF and have the facial indentations.

[–]LOST_TALE0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

end up playing chicken it means you've got a feisty one.

what does this mean? ''playing chicken'' and ''fesity one''

[–]brettfromtibet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Playing chicken" is a game where two people (or two cars) will go straight at each other and the most cowardly one ("the chicken") will be the one who moves out of the way first.

A "fiesty" person has a lot of fire, energy, and attitude... they are very lively and intense.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Now try take some MDMA or cocaine, groom yourself and go to a rave have a good time dancing. Is like IOI porn.

[–]justgotalpha0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i can def relate back in 2014 i went from your average guy to mr. steal your girl(at least thats how they perceived me lol) in 6 months of lifting,grooming,eating right , drinking lots of water,dressing in style and having a HAIRCUT that matches your face shape i got to a point where the attention got ANNOYING ,suddenly all eyes where on me i even did a experiment on my self on how many people would stare at me during the day and NEARLY 95 percent of the people whom i came accross with would stare at me multiple times and in 1 occasion i had a hb8 invite me to a barbe-Q within minutes of talking to me.am 5ft 6 and believe me it dint matter that i was short.the attention felt good the first 2 months or so but believe me it gets annoying after certain time,since everyone now wants to agree with you for no reason,want to be seen with you,ask you random questions as an excuse to talk to you.i even had a guy offered me a good position in the company that he supposedly "owned",not to say all the hate that comes with it ,guys not wanting their girls around you ,going to the bars was always uncomfortable since the guys who were with their girls will grill at you and feel threaten.

women will stare at you like crazy and will perceive you as high smv guy but you have to be suave type of guy since the interest is there dont go to hard on yourself just play it smooth and you could be smashing FAST.the DOWNSIDE with girls is that they will always have you in doubt meaning they will think you are a player and that you have lots of women at your disposal so you better get ready to get rejected yes REJECTED girls will do this as a way to protect their feelings(ego)

yes i cant lie it felt GOOD but you got to realize that its all fake admiration from people since when i dint looked this way nobody even bothered to ask me anything,stare or show interest in me,i wanted to be admired for being me.also you wont be able to focus on other things since now all you could think is about being a sex SYMBOL.I now moved to another state so the preassure of getting stable got me to stop grooming like i used to,stopped lifting(for now)cant afford haircuts and maintenance kind of hairstyle,dressed down a bit and ocassionaly wear hats and well the magic is GONE!!!..now i feel like i have to work harder to achieve things since now they are talking to my personality and not my looks!! now when i approach a girl i have to get my game tight since my looks are not there to save me when i screw on something.so ive seen both sides of the coin,maybe il get like that again but want to make money first and focus on my career.

sorry for my formatting!!!1

[–]play_time_is_over0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What I notice is that when you catch eyes with a women she tends to look longer. That or she does a double take.

The other thing is some women get more tense / awkward around you. This is not a pleasant feeling but I've noticed it, Im 6'4" maybe has something to do with it.

[–]RubbeRNL0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The book "Undercover Sex Signals" has all these IO's listed. It's an excellent read.

[–]byers189010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You gotta target the right areas. Namely the shoulders and the base id the neck.

Do you have an article btw? Just curious.

[–]wtg29890 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So that explains why every girl sends me a bitchy stare. It's because I'm hot lol. Now it all makes sense

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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