TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

Weak men really *are* screwing feminism up.

Dalrock
November 22, 2018

I have recently had the benefit of multiple email exchanges with Larry Kummer, Editor of the Fabius Maximus website.  What follows is an edited version of one such exchange, with Larry’s gracious permission.  Larry will be posting the same discussion on Fabius Maximus as well.  Larry’s comments are in blockquotes and my responses are in normal typeface:

I describe fourth wave feminism as women seeking superiority over men. They’re quite open about it. Here’s a fun example, showing how far the idea has spread. The author is not fully on board with the program, giving clear statements about the Matriarchy with assurances that it won’t be a matriarchy. But clear thinking has seldom been a characteristic of feminists (unlike women physicists and doctors).

How To Prepare Our Sons for the Matriarchy” by Jenny Hoople at The Good Men Project – “We must not leave our boys behind even as we raise up our girls.” “The Matriarchy doesn’t mean women over men, it means strong women leading all of us in rebuilding a society …”

Here is the image that goes with it (shutterstock_10800637). It captures the nature of the article quite well, and the intent of those pushing for a Matriarchy.

That pic really does say it all.  On the other side we have conservatives responding that weak men are screwing feminism up.

The “cuckservatives” are part of the problem. It is more accurate to say that weak men are screwing up society. I’ve wanted to write about this, but it’s too complex and I don’t understand it sufficiently. Here is how I see it.

Strong societies devote a lot of energy to producing strong boys. We’ve found how to produce something worse for society then feral men (who are destructive but strong): hordes of weak men. Withdrawal from dating and marriage is a natural response of weak men.

How did this happen? Disasters (excluding natural disasters) usually result from multiple and reinforcing errors. Feminists produce weak sons. Dads subservient or acquiescing to their feminist wives produce weak sons. Families too busy to raise sons, especially with few larger institutions doing so, produce weak sons. Single mothers produce weak sons. Feminist-dominated institutions – such as our schools, churches and youth groups – produce weak boys. Institutions that train boys to be strong, such as Boy Scouts and male-only sports programs, are under attack.

Worse, we’ve stopped raising girls. So they grow with their core programming, their base nature. What we thought was their natural state was in fact the result of intense indoctrination (e.g. pronatalism). Modern girls, as often seen in music videos, are somewhat feral girls. Like feral men, they are disruptive to society.

Right. The problem is not the observation, but the frame.  The observation is accurate. The problem is the implicit desire to change men so that feminism will finally work. It can’t be done, and conservatives shouldn’t be trying to make feminism work anyway.

Like so much of your work, that’s a brutal but accurate observation. Obvious, once you point it out to us. It’s a sign of the ultimate victory when your opponents adopt your goals. It’s a commonplace in history.

[Note:  I created the title of the post intending to limit posting our conversation to this point, as it provides context into how I use the expression “weak men screwing feminism up”.  But at Larry’s suggestion I also include the rest of the exchange below:]

It is imperative, imo, that we break the debate out of the current two channels: despair (Aquinas: “To commit a crime is to kill the soul, but to despair is to fall into hell.”) and MGTOW (fantasies of being Tarzan: Me strong & self-sufficient, live in jungle alone with my animal friends).

I’m in general agreement I think, but MGTOW men aren’t the problem, they are a logical reaction to the problem.  I made an analogy a number of years ago regarding seats at a restaurant that ended up taking a life of its own.  In a nutshell, I wish the MGTOW men well and hope they have fulfilling lives.  My focus isn’t on trying to convince them to come dine in the restaurant (marriage), but to find a way to make more seats available for them to do so.

Now we’re getting to the core of the situation. Under your prodding, this is becoming a bit clearer to me.

“but MGTOW men aren’t the problem …”

I fully agree, looking at this on an individual level. More broadly, men bailing on the current system will be (guessing) a major force blowing it down. But – again guessing – I think most are kidding themselves. I’ve seen a lot of this, by age 63, and imo GAME and MGTOW are the equivalent of Fantasy Football for most men. They can be played but not won in real life.

But young women aren’t the problem, either (neither side has much empathy for or understanding of the other – which is part of the problem). They’re doing as they have been told, acting on the values the Boomers and Gen X taught them. They are like young women playing at being Wonder Women (vainly seeking to have it all).

Both young men and women are on courses that will end badly for many of them. Their damaged lives are pushing the system to its destruction. But not, as often described, as collateral damage. More like involuntary sacrifices. I can’t think of the right metaphor for them.

That’s why I refer to this current debate – 4th wave feminism vs. GAME/MGTOW – as a doomed fight from which we must break free from. This is a common situation in history, in which societies fall into conflicts in which there can be no winners.  {Fourth wave feminism is women seeking superiority, not equality. Take a feminist’s speech and reverse the genders. If it sounds sexist, then she is in the fourth wave.}

End of email exchange.

This page lists all Larry’s posts about the gender wars, sorted by subject, including A surprise end to the gender wars: men stand together.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the blog Dalrock.

Dalrock archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

Post Information
Title Weak men really *are* screwing feminism up.
Author Dalrock
Date November 22, 2018 1:09 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Blog Dalrock
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/blog/Dalrock/weak-men-really-are-screwing-feminismup.6920
https://theredarchive.com/blog/6920
Original Link https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/11/21/weak-men-really-are-screwing-feminism-up/
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter