Here's What a Boy-Friendly School Would Look Like

renzy77 · 2014-05-01T17:24:59+00:00

The all-boys school I'll be sending my son to incorporates all three of these elements:

They do 3 recesses a day to allow boys to release their energy. They expect boys to be high energy and don't punish them for being that way.
They split the boys up into various "houses" (teams essentially) and have them compete against each other, because surprise, surprise research has shown that boys tend to work harder when given the extra motivation not to let down their team.
The staff is predominately male, instead of predominately female like it is in public schools. When your teaching staff is composed entirely of men, what do you think they are going to focus on more: Results or "try-hard" effort?

I would encourage parents of boys to look into same-sex schools for boys. Assuming you can afford the tuition, and I know that's a big if for a lot of people these days, it can be a great opportunity for your son(s) to escape the feminized public school system where traditional masculinity has essentially become pathologized and boys get treated like they're defective girls.

VZPurp · 2014-05-01T17:01:11+00:00

I like the ide of letting whoever gets the best grade on a test drop their lowest score; it'll make it extremely competitive

MockingDead · 2014-05-01T17:56:59+00:00

1) Results-Based Not Effort-Based

Going to disagree with this one. In sciences, homework reinforces understanding of the information, so it can be drawn with ease from the memory. It also shows a willingness to put in effort, to remain determined, and to grind when necessary.

Stephen Hawking is brilliant, but his brilliance would count for nothing if he didn't work. You seem to labor under the illusion that most scientific discoveries are simply imagined ex nihilo, and not the product of continued testing, theorizing, and tinkering.

Don't give an A just because homework is turned it - it must be graded. But I found classes that provided homework reinforced my knowledge. And if I was good at it, I could do it in a very short period of time.

2) More Recess & Gym Time

I agree. Sports, Lifting, and track. And let me tell you, I hated track...

3) Less Cooperation More Competition

I think this is a good idea.

trpMilo · 2014-05-01T19:39:46+00:00

Thanks for posting! Mom of three young boys here. Considering homeschooling them because of the three things you highlight in your post. My first grader does terrific in math -his teacher says that he explains it to kids that dont understand. I dont make him do his homework...he gets bored enough at school all day. They get 10 minutes of recess throughout a 6 hour day. They are disciplined for speaking without raising their hand....totally ridiculous. There are no all boys schools anywhere near where we live. In your opinion, could a female (Me) using these teaching techniques be effective? They have an awesome Dad who is very involved in their life also.

junk2sa · 2014-05-01T17:02:42+00:00

Assigned reading would not be about emotions and relationships.
i.e., NOT these:

Where the Red Fern Grows
Romeo and Juliet
Diary of Anne Frank
Judy Blume

One of the very few boy-typical books I was assigned in school was Lord of the Flies, and that was showing boys acting like animals. Let's see them assign a book about girls where they are all horrid evil people to each other (like they can be).

Books would be about HUMOR, science fiction, perhaps some adventure, and bodily functions. (we are talking 4th-8th grade boys here) Boys often check out of reading around 4th grade because the books assigned start getting very girly and emotion-centric. Women rarely like science fiction, and since most teachers are women, they rarely select science fiction for assignments. 1984 was the closest thing to that I was ever assigned, and of course, was assigned by a male teacher.

RPsixthree · 2014-05-01T18:10:43+00:00

In my country, as I was finishing school, the funding was cut bit by bit.

You might already guess what classes had to go.

In the first few years we had 4 hours (2 on tuesday, 2 on thursday) of gym per week. Which is already not much but at least it was something.

Over the course of 3 years it was cut to 2 hours, then 1 (which, with everybody changing into their gym clothes, setting up the gym, choosing teams etc. was already more like 25 minutes...).

The only ones to protest were like 90% of the boys. Of course, to no avail.

The fat guys and the girls all applauded that they didn't have to do those "extremely straining" 10 minute runs anymore... Most of the girls were just standing around in groups and chatting anyway, so it wasn't like they actually ran for 10 minutes, ever.

Now the entire country is getting fatter and fatter. Of all the girls I have met after graduation, about half have gotten fat and the other half is skinny fat, but working on their increasing mass by sitting around and evading as much exercise as possible. What's that? One flight of stairs? Better take the elevator...

The "elite" 1% of girls actually lifting weights and the 2% that run from time to time are actually standing out of a crowd by now. It's sad, really.

The latest thing I heard is the maxium of gym time has been cut to 1 hour on tuesday and 1 on thursday. No more volleyball team for the girls, no money etc.

The feminist movement is on the rise and girls feel no shame in looking like swollen sausages anymore.

Well at least they get encouraged to exercise when they are still young... oh

WalkableBuffalo · 2014-05-01T19:11:19+00:00

But how will they attain the sexual tension required from girls to develop into a confused young man?

trplurker · 2014-05-01T21:41:30+00:00

I went to an all boys school that offered all of this and three recesses and gym everyday. Plus when we learned about the Civil War we were well emerged by recreating things such as Pickets Charge and doing Rebel Yells and stuff that keeps a young boy interested in school. The only time in my life I achieved more than C's was during this period where I attended this school and received straight A's for three years.

2014-05-02T00:05:07+00:00

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GreatOneFreak · 2014-05-01T17:28:43+00:00

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VZPurp · 2014-05-01T17:45:23+00:00

No lecture. Problem-based approach. Assign an appropriate problem set to think about. Reference material consists of some notes, a reading, and a recorded presentation (e.g. video of a lecture, should anyone need a lecture).

Lecture class is replaced by Q&A sessions, discussions, and problem solving workshops.

Homework and projects. Small problems leading up to bigger problems, bigger problems being broken down into smaller components, until students have the skills to tackle a large problem on their own.

I slept through school, or was absent, from elementary through university but was always at the top of my class. Lecturing at boys and men is a useless, inefficient waste of time. Pose a problem and tackle it - if you can get your hands dirty even better.

TaylorWolf · 2014-05-01T17:51:21+00:00

I used to never do homework but do so well on tests that it would save my ass just barely.

One class I remember failing both semesters (from not doing homework) then doing so well on the final that I made a D grade overall.

Most of my classes went like this to varying degree. I almost always got 92-97 percent on the final with failing grades for the semester.

billnye_theRPguy · 2014-05-01T19:15:45+00:00

I'd say other important things is a more hands on approach, less time in class, less required homework and more self responsibility/independence.

School doesn't teach kids to be independent, for fucks sake there's kids that go on to join the military and have to get used to the fact they don't have to ask their superior officer to use the bathroom.

Prometheus720 · 2014-05-01T20:06:03+00:00

THIS is what TRP/MRA movement needs. Constructive, objective prescriptions for social change.

2014-05-01T23:30:57+00:00

As someone who goes to a very RP private all boys high school, it is much better than public school (6/7 teachers are male, high competition, not much of a hw grade, can talk openly about women, etc.) Granted, the energy part doesn't apply so much to high school but to anyone or anyone with kids who is reading this, send your sons to all boys high school

nrjk · 2014-05-02T03:26:23+00:00

This goes without saying, boys simply want to run around and be active more than girls.

I was subbing in a high school class one morning (I was filling in for this particular class for ~10 minutes until the teacher arrived). It was an advanced math class with Jr's and Sr's. There was one or two guys standing up talking to their friends when this cunt (dept head) walks in and tells them to sit down. They were just talking, not loud, just shooting the shit, there was nothing for them to do until the teacher got there. Really?

What purpose did that serve? None, except to make that bitch feel like she had done something useful besides just reiterate was I had been told literally 3 minutes earlier. After she left I told them to go back to what they were doing.

This is a micro-example of the kind of shit I see everyday-pointless discipline that only makes students dislike teachers.

dave_is_not_here · 2014-05-02T04:45:53+00:00

Okay, good. Now here's why all of that will never, ever happen in public schools.

Results-Based Not Effort-Based

American education is about programming the lower and middle class to accept and defer to institutional authority while contributing to the labor force without expecting high rates of reimbursement. As such, the idea is not to teach students skills that they will find useful in life but to train them to perform repetitious tasks when commanded to by an institutional authority figure without expecting fair reimbursement for the time invested in said tasks and to do so while appearing to pass on useful knowledge. This is why you don't remember much of anything you learned in elementary or middle school, yet most Americans feel one must work a minimum of 40 hours a week in order to have access to food, shelter, water and clean clothing. As such forcing students to obediently invest certain amounts of effort in certain ways into certain tasks is the founding principle of all educational institutions. The results themselves mean little more than nothing at all. That's why you haven't gotten much of anything left from all that work you did as a child. Thus, any system wherein the efficient production of those results by any means is emphasized as a founding principle is simply not going to happen in any publicly funded school in America. Such systems, however, are extraordinarily common among private schools.

More Recess & Gym Time

American public schools are and always will be designed to produce an obedient and docile working class. That's why your lunch break starts and ends exactly when recess would. Long recesses and short days with optional attendance are all commonplace in high end private schools; they will never become part of public education in the US.

Less Cooperation More Competition

Before I go on, is anybody sensing a theme here? Public schools are designed to produce an efficient working class. Can you see how such an education system may perhaps aim to produce students eager to work with, rather than lead, their peers?

tl;dr - American schools are factories meant to churn out a docile, obedient labor force. Your ideas, wonderful and effective as they are, don't really jive with that whole scheme.

long-lostfriend · 2014-05-02T05:47:10+00:00

TRP public school teacher here. Allow me to weigh in.

Every one of your suggestions are excellent ones. Here are honest responses to your statements:

Why does homework count for a grade in nearly every class?

Schools encourage counting homework (or other smaller in-class activities) as grades so that poor test scores can be offset by them in order that the student may pass. Depending on the type of student population, teachers may not give homework at all because the students there will not do it, thereby defeating the grade-inflation intention of the assignments in the first place.

We should be testing for understanding.

Even better: we should replace tests with tasks/projects that demonstrate mastery of a subject. Employers don't give a shit what applicants can regurgitate on a test. They want to know what their employees can produce.

I think one of the biggest challenges facing boys in school is that being smart isn't cool.

Again, this depends on the school population. In shitty ghetto schools, this is absolutely true. In other schools, it isn't that being smart is uncool, but rather that many of the smart ones are uncool in a lot of other respects as well. A Red Pill-aware teenager who happens to be smart can impress the girls with his intelligence.

Imagine holding an activity once a week where students are divided into teams, given an exam or assignment related to the week's material, and then whatever team wins gets to spend the next class session having recess, or joining a gym class instead, or basically whatever they want to do.

The great thing about ideas like this is that they require both collaboration/cooperation (within the team) and competition. Both are necessary skills to have.

I have been re-structuring my courses the last several years to incorporate a lot of the things you mention (with the exception of the "gym time," as I am not a coach). It is an uphill battle in a mixed-gender school; and also because by the time boys reach high school, it is hard to get them thinking about school in different terms than they have known it since they were five years old.

squarehead93 · 2014-05-01T19:02:30+00:00

I like your idea about more competition-based learning. It would make being smart a more valuable asset among young children, especially boys.

However, when it comes to physical competition, I wonder if sometimes gym can actually enforce beta tendencies in some boys? I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a moment here, but I remember in grade school, a lot of the more athletically gifted kids loved gym, while the not-so-gifted kids hated it. Most of the activities we did were competitive games.

While I fully support fostering more competitive play among kids and encouraging them to value winning and self-improvement, I think gym class is the reason a lot of less athletic guys were scared away from sports and physical activity altogether. In the mind of the little boy who's always picked last at gym, it becomes easier to simply avoid sports and competition at all costs and the constant humiliation that comes with them than to try to get better. In other words, it conditions them to avoid hardship and not stick out. In short, beta conditioning.

And it's a shame because I feel the most important thing gym class should instill in boys is a healthy, active lifestyle, regardless of whether they participate in team sports or not.

I am all for encouraging boys to be competitive, but I think it should be done in a way that doesn't ultimately damage some of them and ultimately discourage them from even bothering.

2014-05-01T21:00:54+00:00

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PlantNutrient · 2014-05-02T03:35:45+00:00

While I do think homework is necessary to learning, I do agree that tests are the main basis of understanding.

I am not fond of busywork, and find a hard time focusing on doing all sorts of homework. I do, however, understand, and can apply, everything taught in every class. As consistently the top student, I feel like homework slows me down. I would rather take a hundred tests as preparation than going home and doing a hundred of the same type of problem.

Tests highlight what you do and don't understand, allowing you to focus on your individual needs. It also throws everything you've learned at you, showing you what you need in the real world instead of that one skill you learned last week over and over.

I currently have a teacher who cares way too much about our class, and treats it like military. Five kids dropped out the first week. We take insanely hard tests every few days and he lets you correct what you got wrong for half credit. He forces students to compete in regional and national academic competitions to instill a competitive hunger to learn.

He will ruthlessly harass you if you don't understand the topic, so you go home and learn that fucking topic.

He takes kids like me and has us do mandatory tutoring of younger classes and those who don't understand.

He embodies your post here, and I have never had such hunger to learn in school as I do in his class. He even turned a near-dropout football kid into someone who comes in after to get help. Well, you have to stay late to pass his class, I haven't left on time for months now.

savage1ma · 2014-05-02T04:08:10+00:00

I always liked Math... i treated it like a Race in school, try to solve whatever problem we were given the fastest lean back and watch how long it takes for the next person to lay his pen/pencil down.

2014-05-01T20:09:09+00:00

I agree with this post. I failed homework, and even spent my entire fourth grade in a back room as public ridicule because I refused to do any homework, ever. School is school and home is home, i never crossed the two. The joke was always on the teachers because my grades were never below b average. I understood and devoured the material.

Dreamtrain · 2014-05-01T22:21:49+00:00

How do you solve the problem of the kids who weren't so graced by genetics getting shit on and bullied by the ones who were? This might be more prominent in a setting with kids being competitive, though I could be wrong.

enclosed10 · 2014-05-01T21:09:37+00:00

Imagine holding an activity once a week where students are divided into teams, given an exam or assignment related to the week's material, and then whatever team wins gets to spend the next class session having recess, or joining a gym class instead, or basically whatever they want to do.

Unfortunately, this will never happen because the dumb kids might get their poor feelings hurt. Instead of encouraging the dumb kids to learn the material, people would rather tell them that they are perfect the way they are.

long-lostfriend · 2014-05-01T23:04:24+00:00

But school is where the BP mentality is ingrained.

If I ever get married and “settle down" I'm choosing to home school my children,

Question to the TRP father's...

Any of you guys that do this or would consider it?

Newwby · 2014-05-02T01:17:35+00:00

I feel like this would unnecessarily punish the students who tried hard but failed (as you mentioned) yet I'dve loved a system like this during school. I barely paid attention yet passed everything.

I'm going to finish this comment by noting that isn't necessary a good thing. The education system is for everyone, not the minority.

charlesbukowksi · 2014-05-02T06:19:49+00:00

Well said.

2014-05-02T07:20:45+00:00

Check out classical education. I believe we need to return to it.

cooltrip · 2014-05-02T16:37:05+00:00

You got it all so terribly, terribly wrong:

1) Results-Based Not Effort-Based

Exactly the opposite: it should be effort-based! I don't know if an asteroid will destroy the Earth within the next 10 seconds so, why should I take any effort at all??

3) Less Cooperation More Competition

Exactly the opposite: it should be cooperation-based! Homo sapiens sapiens hasn't accomplished all the current progress through competition, but through division of labor! we would not even know how to make fire without intergenerational cooperation!

I see you coming. It's the first time I downvote a TRP post.

2014-05-02T22:04:41+00:00

How does an all boys school compare to an all girls school?

Obviously from OP's post and others boys turn out into men, but do the girls turn into women, or they just gonna cock ride 20 dudes regardless of what they learn (AWALT).

Gilly96 · 2014-05-03T00:03:38+00:00

1) A results based success is actually detrimental for child's development male and female. I've been reading a book on this called the growth mindset. Basically the reason why you should make everything effort based is so that children learn to develop themselves and their abilities/weaknesses (sound familiar?) because when they're rewarded for trying they will always try.

If it is results based and people get praise for being smart just for being smart they will never grow and be in the "fixed" mindset (apart from the growth mindset.) they will label themselves as smart and believe you can't get smarter. Likewise people who aren't praised for being intelligent but are trying will, believe that their efforts are futile because all traits are "fixed" and nothing can be developed. This mindset seeps into late life.

ProfessorD2 · 2014-05-03T06:21:17+00:00

1 and #2 are already heavily pushed for by those in the know. I just got my Education degree 2 years ago and these are pretty widely accepted by Education professionals who have read the studies.

The problem is Education is a field with too many ignorant hands in the pot. Everyone gets a say: parents, politicians. Hell, even the kid's physician gets heavy input in IEPs.

cherrypoptart27 · 2014-05-01T19:10:09+00:00

I like your overall idea but disagree with point 1. I think effort on homework assignments absolutely SHOULD be part of the grade because it instills discipline to get the job done, like a MAN. The idea is a mans work isn't always pleasant. With that being said, I think that it shouldn't act as a safety net to hinder the motivation for true understanding of the material as you said.

Probably the most alpha and best teacher I ever had had the opposite policy: if you do all the homework, it does nothing. If you miss one homework, you get dropped a letter grade. Needless to say this motivated those who weren't motivated to begin with.

tangman · 2014-05-01T20:02:31+00:00

Mandatory training for powerlifting.

Mikesapien · 2014-05-01T22:42:08+00:00

I don't feel like school is super feminine, it's emasculating in many ways but not feminine enough for me to say that it's harming boys because it's feminine. I get where the emasculation comes from, it's the orchestration of solipsistic females but I don't feel that their mechanization are inherently feminine.

First off school is for learning, learning doesn't have to be hard but it shouldn't be expected to be made fun. teaching children to enjoy learning is the most important change I think.

Some thoughts on improving education for boys without stifling girls and the acceptable feminine:

Leader Boards in physical education and regular classes. Post them in the school not just online.
More team based competition outside of a single specific project; the top comment mentions that his sons school uses "houses" this is more along the lines of what I mean. Don't force kids to have awkward conversations just force them to work together, IRL you don't get to pick your co-workers unless you're the boss.
More time for physical activities, with a greater focus on physical health and competition in high school; lifting, martial arts, and sports. Give them something they can take into the real world.
More male teachers (make this a higher paid profession.)
End zero tolerance policies for masculine things, a boy that draws a gun doesn't need an expulsion, suspension or a shrink, give him a tour of a gun store, some safety lessons and maybe a look into gun smithing. Same goes for boys that like war and strategy these are male interests and shouldn't be shunned as complictous to violence.

There are plenty of other changes I would make that don't focus on either gender traits and a few that I would make focusing on feminine traits in schooling to make them more effective and reasonable. Men need a capacity for the feminine otherwise you can't expect them to put up with their wives and daughters or any women for that matter.

ITakeAllthePills · 2014-05-02T02:45:50+00:00

I think some of these changes would just be beneficial for everyone (except possibly the competition part). Kids in general hate sitting still for 8 goddamn hours a day, of course they get antsy and seem "attention deficit". They don't have the brain development necessary to make extended attention as easy as it is for adults. Jesus, let those kids go and play, run around, get hurt like kids are supposed to. Give them involved, creative things to do that facilitate learning, and stop treating kids who are not in high school like little templates we need to prepare for college. Hell, even stop treating high school kids like that. We need finance courses to teach people how to handle money, this is a skill everyone needs, unlike Calculus.

Encouraging a lot of group activities can potentially backfire though, there are factors like social loafing that make people more lazy if they don't feel as invested. It could also possibly increase bullying and animosity among the students, but as long as its paired with proper training and discipline as well, I doubt that'd be a problem.

I think a mixture of results based and effort based would work best, but after elementary school all we're concerned about is your result on a test: how did your TAKS turn out? Better get ready for SATs/ACTs! All that matters is a number you get, and it really doesn't work, it only makes kids good test takers. We need a complete restructuring of the education system to something closer to Finland, where we stop teaching to the test and start to pay more attention to kids individually. Smaller class sizes would also help. Also, how much teachers are paid and how well they're trained is more important, I think, than putting elementary school kids into competitive groups - with the wrong teacher, that can totally backfire. We need to value teachers more and make our standards much, much stricter. These people are charged with teaching our future for God's sake, we need to take their job more seriously.

Rainymood_XI · 2014-05-02T07:38:10+00:00

The real reason homework assignments are graded is so they can act as a safety net for kids who try hard but don't understand the material. We should stop rewarding this, and stop punishing kids who understand the material but are bored by the homework.

Disagree. I was one of those kids that both understood it AND worked hard. I feel that working hard SHOULD be rewarded, the 'oh i am so smart but don't do anything' habit is really really toxic. You delude yourself into being smart but actually you're not, you just think you are. Actions speak louder than words.

I dislike grading homework too, but kids don't want to learn stuff (some do, I know) kids want to run around, jump, be active etc.

I displayed excellence in mathematics from an early age, the teachers allowed the 'smart group' (3-4 top of our year) to continue with next year's mathematics, we got a huge head start this way. I really liked this. We got the priviledge to sit outside class and work at our own leisure.

I think one of the biggest challenges facing boys in school is that being smart isn't cool.

We had this one year. Every single kid got a 'mark sheet' and if you made your homework or showed that you did your best, you'd get a mark (red curl), after X amount of marks you could choose a prize. Shit worked like a charm. We totally respected the teacher though, I think that really matters. We loved him but also respected him.

BluepillProfessor · 2014-05-01T21:45:46+00:00

To your great list I would add:

All boys schools.
Red Pill schools with all RED PILL MEN as teachers (think football coach, wrestling coach, army Sgt., Police Officers)
Strict physical training- get them in the weight room and some cardio: You don't need DRUGS- make the kids exercise until they are ready to drop. Let them catch their breath and THEN teach them.
Enforce harsh physical discipline- push ups etc. Think football practice.
Have masculine readings- fuck off "To Kill a Mockingbird" and bring on "The Red Badge of Courage."

trpMilo · 2014-05-01T20:01:18+00:00

If you can't be bothered to do the work because you feel it's so 'trivial' then it's your own god damn fault. Hard work is more important than raw ability, and those who work hard should be rewarded more so than somebody who sits about on their high horse crying about feminism. Just do your fucking homework dude.

griff62 · 2014-05-01T22:06:30+00:00

Here is a recent article with "research" data showing girls are better at school than boys.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/economy/here-s-100-years-of-proof-that-girls-are-better-students-than-boys-20140501

ProductivityMonster · 2014-05-01T22:47:56+00:00

It's called business school

trpMilo · 2014-05-01T20:13:43+00:00

Utterly stupid. 1. Homework being a safety net? Take some engineering classes. Ask an engineer if he thought homework was a safety net. 2. Competition? Sure. But you're basically putting these kids in the same position as John Hopkins kids: stealing notes and giving false answers just to get ahead. Not sure you want to instill those values in kids. 3. More active time? I'm on board with that. Give them time to do whatever they want, including reading if they choose to.

TL;DR: OP's first day on TRP and thinks it's just feminism but focused on boys: favoring boys over girls. Please read the intro material before writing something without much thought.

Derpmaster8 · 2014-05-02T01:33:55+00:00

Based on my high school experience, girls don't like arrogant assholes who think they are better than everyone. At least not the girls I liked. Maybe it's just because my girlfriends weren't shallow and easy.

Title	Here's What a Boy-Friendly School Would Look Like
Author	trpMilo
Upvotes	196
Comments	193
Date	May 1, 2014 4:36 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/24gtgp/heres_what_a_boyfriendly_school_would_look_like/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/heres-what-a-boy-friendly-school-would-look-like.14873 https://theredarchive.com/post/14873