Don't do this when talking to women (and how to fix it)

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January 3, 2019

There are plenty cardinal sins when interacting with sex-dispensers, such as being needy or seeking approval. However todays lecture will be addressing the main reason you're scaring pussy away and that's taking a subservient attitude with her.

Recently I saw two people waiting in line insist that that the other person go ahead of them repeatedly for about a minute. The exchange was terribly awkward because behind the veil of their superficial kindness was a battle for who was at the bottom of the barrel. "You may go in front of me because I am unimportant" was the implied argument repeated over and over again.

The real issue here is that if you're requesting permission to land your cock between an HB8+s legs you must do so from a position of superiority. Girls are hypergamic, which means if you put yourself below them they won't want to swallow your cum anymore.

If you're wondering if you fall into this category simply ask yourself the question, "Would I do anything to fuck this girl?" If the answer is yes, then you have already lost.


Putting yourself ABOVE a women means you understand your value as a man. Even if you aren't a 6'2 chad with a 7inch cock you should still present yourself as one.

Here are a few ways that you're probably fucking yourself up and how to fix them:

  1. Over-explaining shit

Hey maybe we could go to the movies it would be a really nice time and I think you'd enjoy it a lot         

While this sounds sincere it also makes you sound like a long pussy.

Let's watch Aquaman Saturday     

Hey look at that we got to the fucking point. If she's going to reject you no amount of explaining is going to prevent it. Explaining and over-talking is a method to avoid rejection (and just bitch behavior in general).

  1. Talking too much

    Hi Amanda I wanted to let you know that you just look so amazing today and you should know so I just had to tell you how amazing you look!

Many times guys will say the same thing 2-3 times. This is just hurting their own chances of landing in poon-town as they lower the value of their speech. It's also obnoxious as fuck to listen to. Try listening to a recording of yourself if you talk like this and you will understand immediately.

You look great               

Less really is more. It show's your comfortable with silence and that you don't need her approval for what you say.

  1. Insisting

    Why don't we get a drink together? I know the perfect place you'll love it, They have live music, and the food is so good, and the drinks are cheap too!

While you were writing her a persuasive argumentative essay she made plans to fuck chad. Insisting is just a way to say you have no other option and can't take no for an answer. Don't use suggestions, be direct.

Let's grab a drink, first rounds on me           

Sounds like she can depend on the second guy for a good time.

  1. Hinging off of her opinions when choosing a venue

    What do you think of dinner? What kind of food do you want? What are you in the mood for? Is Italian okay?

Again this is searching for approval, but most importantly it shows that you don't have the balls to make any decisions.

Let's grab dinner Friday, found a place with the perfect fillet                   

Doesn't search for approval, takes charge, makes a decision, keeps an air of mystery, it should be something you know she will enjoy and some place that you will have fun at. I've dated some girls with weird food tastes and they ALWAYS let me know somehow someway or they don't complain about it. Ask them about their weird fucked up preferences in advance not when you're asking her out as it will give her an extra thing to think about and say no. I.e. "Is there anything you're allergic to/can't eat" is all you need to say.

  1. Hinging off of her opinions in general.

    What do you think of my ....

Just stop. Don't ask her to formulate opinions of you. Asking her will ruin the illusion of things "Just happening naturally" and will come off as attention seeking and forcing the interaction. Her opinions of you will be determined based off of your actions, and she will show you her opinion of you with her pussy if she likes you.

Understand that the root cause of these behaviors need to be addressed and this is just a patch job to help you smash some holes this year. Happy hunting.

Edit: Formatting took a shit on me

Post Information
Title Don't do this when talking to women (and how to fix it)
Author The_BitterTruth
Upvotes 791
Comments 98
Date 03 January 2019 06:43 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
Chadthe red pill

[–]revaforce385 points386 points  (8 children) | Copy

TLDR: Be decisive and to the point, the more you talk, the more you’ll block.

[–]SeyiDALegend24 points25 points  (5 children) | Copy

Mmmm how do you express your personality though? It's all good be mysterious when you're good looking but what if you're average looking? Where's the charisma?

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]SeyiDALegend8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ahh that makes sense. I'm never as self-deprecating as the above examples but I do talk some to get across my personality and get the conversation going.

[–]pillkill4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. I tend to look for validation as well

[–]OldPeopleLeather10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think the rule is only for requests/decisions. Talking a lot during your clown game I don't think is a bad thing, especially if you're a beginner like me. A low energy game is probably more effective when executed correctly, but a high energy game is much more forgiving. If I'm high energy rambling and speak on 30 different topics throughout the night, I feel I can afford to slip up once or twice since you'd still say ~95% the right things. If I say only 5 things throughout the night though and slip up once, only 80% of what I said would convey the right alpha presentation.

[–]p3n1x6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

If she has agreed to the date, you are 80% there. Don't bullshit yourself with needing to "persuade" or "negotiate". Pay attention to body language and escalate quickly. After you escalate, follow through with action, not more of your need to be "charismatic". Are you trying to fuck her? Or fuck yourself?

This post isn't about cold approach opening, it is about speech that is leading to the date without looking soft / beneath her.

especially if you're a beginner like me.

Insecurity is no excuse to do things 'wrong'.

[–]lifeisweirdasfuck2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Or "Always say less than necessary"

[–]Field_Of_View1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Less than necessary would imply that there is information missing.

[–]TheSelfGoverned137 points138 points  (14 children) | Copy

In other words, don't be a soy boy.

A mistake I made over and over is peacocking, or trying to show you are cool/interesting/accomplished/worthy. This always backfires, no matter how legitimate or grand or confident or proud of it you are. In their eyes, it usually comes off as weak and insecure...or it can damage their ego, which doesn't win you any points either.

If at all, do it only in person, and keep show and tell to 3 min or less.

[–]pillkill14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

I read The Rational Male by Rollo and it was mentioned more than once that pea-cocking should be practiced if possible. It didn't quite work for me. You have an opinion along the same lines. Why and when should we peacock and not?

[–]TheSelfGoverned7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

On the second or third date, maybe. And keep it short and vague. Don't talk about it after, don't expand on any details...Leave lots of room for mystery.

Don't ever peacock via text or during the first date. It doesn't matter if its one tiny fun/creative thing you did 3 years ago, if its your life's work, something you created that is absolutely beautiful, the hobby that you spend all of your time on, if you are Elon fucking Musk himself, or if its a time-lapse video of you perfectly chiseling a life-sized marble statue by hand... she will think its desperate and disgusting.

Women will want to fuck you LONG before they are mentally ready to actually get to know you as a person. In fact, that doesn't really matter AT ALL until maybe 30 days in. What does matter -what only matters- is your game.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime26 points27 points  (2 children) | Copy

Peacocking depends entirely on how you wear it.

If it's look at me, I'm struggling to get noticed so I'm trying real hard, then it'll certainly backfire.

If it forms part of who you are, and is genuinely interesting, and you own it, it only peaks her interest further.

She'll start hamstering all sorts of stories and keenly want to know more.

[–]TheSelfGoverned4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

That is building a sense of mystery by giving her little bread crumbs of info though... It is different than peacocking.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Peacocking in the manosphere is generally drawing attention to yourself, either with but not limited to a prop, or item of clothing to initiate conversation or draw interest.

Mystery forms part of it because she's wondering what the hell it's all about.

The success of it depends on how well you wear it. If it looks out of place on you and you don't own it, it'll flop. If you wear it with confidence and frame it feeds her fantasy/story.

What you're talking about is qualifying yourself.

[–]Eclipsespirit8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Law 5: Always court attention but surround yourself with an air of mystery.

[–]temerity186 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Peacocking is wearing loud, flashy clothes. Trying to show you are cool/interesting/accomplished/worthy is boasting, showing off

[–]TheSelfGoverned4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the clarification.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are supposed to show it. You arent supposed to say it.

[–]p3n1x5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

trying to show you are cool/interesting/accomplished/worthy.

If you actually are cool, peacocking doesn't backfire. The keyword you said is, "try". Nike that shit.

[–]tchower2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a tough one. As a musician I like to talk about my musical accomplishments in College, at times this has served me well, while at other times, I over compensated because you walk a fine line between humility and self-deprecation. Too little confidence dries them up, while too much validating can look narcissistic.

[–]DayGameChirality0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A mistake I made over and over is peacocking

That depends on your style. I'm into hippie girls and it definitely works for me.

Another thing is psychology of peacocking that isn't discussed here. Implied that you're at a party of mostly new people - whether a small party or a venue, it matters not. Say you're wearing a pink hat. What is the purpose of the pink hat? It's to be easily identifiable. You walk around the party, meet new people. Other people whom you haven't met yet will notice you more often because you stand out of the crowd. Instead of noticing you once like a normal grey pleb, they'll notice you 4-5 times, or if it's a venue (club, bar, etc.) or a subculture (underground electronic music, hippie communities, etc.) you go often to, they'll notice you every time you go there. This creates a subconscious impression of you being a "known guy", someone who goes there often, and most importantly, someone they know. People are friendlier towards you before they even meet you, because they know you. You're safe. They've seen you there before many times, even if it's a single party and it's been an hour since you came.

[–]blackjustin192 points193 points  (42 children) | Copy

This is something I had to learn recently.
I'm normally very quiet and stoic, and I think that's that makes women interested in me. I began seeing one gal, and we wound up banging for a few weeks. She kept telling me things like "I want to see what happens in your brain one day, blah blah blah." (I tend to think abstractly). So one day I finally told her what was going on up there, and after that, the entire balance of power was thrown off. It started to feel like she wanted me to prove myself to her, not the other way around. Then, of course, every disagreement we'd ever had got brought up and thrown in my face. She wasn't really what I wanted anyway, so I just stopped talking to her. This has happened to be in LTR as well. I was with a girl for four years, and as soon as I expressed myself, she started acting like the dominant one of the two of us.

Lesson learned: Just STFU. Which, honestly, is a bummer. But it is what it is. /shrug

[–]Gmann1471 points72 points  (6 children) | Copy

You learned A valuable lesson,.. Keep em in the dark and feed em shit.

Wamen are like children, their moral development stage ends at 3, men at 6. They don't think like we do, so stfu and tell her to make you a sammwich

[–]blackjustin47 points48 points  (3 children) | Copy

I don't know. I still don't believe in "all women are like that", but the more I date... It's hard to ignore the fact that behavior, although sometimes different, falls within the same guidelines. I spent four years with a girl who almost certainly had borderline personality disorder (I don't put that accusation lightly, but I am a psychology major and she certainly fits every criteria of it), and now, after dating her - It's almost like women I encounter - they try to do the same things she did, but they aren't as good at it, if that makes sense..? There are definite parallells between women, even though there are a few deviations.

Relationship starts off good
The sex is awesome

The woman pulls a foul (this could be something disrespectful towards you directly, or just something you don't like such as flirting with other men, etc)
Verbalize your unhappiness/call her on bullshit

Lie, or if you can't lie, manipulate

Call her on the lie

Manipulate harder or steamroll (a defense mechanism that people use; when called out, they roll over all your concerns and bring up random shit that has nothing to do with the problem at hand)

on and on and on until you just stop fucking with her.

Sometimes it seems like the best thing to do is just ignore her behavior, and when she pulls a solid foul, just move on.

[–]FractalNerve16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't say that lightly, because I strongly believe the weaker must be protected. But who is really weak, let's be real. I think force and power cannot exist without each other. Men need to use force AND power in survival, such as keeping a family alive. Yeah you become the asshole, but also the only real asset everyone silently agrees who has higher value and needs to be respected. Resent, foul-playing and blaming cannot be stopped by men with low SMV simply because this is a social situation that involves more than those two parties and your own SMV must be agreed to be higher by everyone involved. Period. Fight for that. Or gain unimaginable popularity.

With all the SMV girls reciprocallly get in social media and society the average men are the most unimportant and easiest to replace resources. I work in AI and Automation in the industry.. I know how easily people are being replaced.

If you are curious here's more about me for some background :

I have a hard past and LIVED the experience spectrum in the trinity of absolute power, absolute loser and average Joe.

I know how it is to be mobbed, hated, spit on, fought for attention with by total strangers even and also know how it is to be the undenied alpha whom everyone opens the door, shares their havings with, is given money and presents for seconds of attention and who wins any argument or fight without trying, but the most depressing life, one that fits too many heads more comfortablly than we'd wish it did, is the life of an average Joe. Invisible and frustrated Because SMV is very unstably shaking between good and bad, but never enough to open doors out of it.

[–]Trenned_out2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yep. I think the real end goal for those who want LTR's should be a "mini" LTR. Do it until it goes bad and move on. Having 6month-few year relationships and when it sours know when to pull the plug and move on.

Your get the best parts of the LTR and can appreciate that genuine connection for what it is, but know it won't last.

Yea it sucks when it ends, but you know it's all part of the cycle. I know for me being entirely emotionally disconnected just banging girls isn't nearly as fufilling. But I also know the cold hard truth about the odds of it being good remaining with a woman for decades.

[–]blackjustin1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I agree. Sometimes catch and release is fun.. sometimes, not so much. I don't know that a LTR is what my end goal is, but I'm also not actively avoiding a LTR, either. I'm on the fence about it. Sometimes it sounds great, the problem is, when it's bad, it's absolutely awful. I'm not even sure if being in a LTR is reasonable. I think it goes against the basic human condition. But, meh. Here nor there...

[–]mahdif6215 points16 points  (12 children) | Copy

One thing I don't understand is this illusion/mystery thing. Girls know we like them or at least want to bang them. So what is the mystery here?

[–]SteveStJohn54 points55 points  (4 children) | Copy

Her hamster is working hard filling in the gaps between who you are and who she wants. When the canvas is blank she paints it with what she wants. When you explain something you are most likely telling her something about yourself that is contrary with her fantasy. So keep quiet, and let her hamster work for you.

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]Atheist_Utopia8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Gosh the feels. I've been doing a better job at avoiding the last part though.

[–]Mr-Kabuki9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

True. When a girl just starts assuming you’re fucking chad and that ‘you prolly get tons of girls’, don’t correct her. Just say “ yea well, you know”

[–]FrankCostanza1112 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Where there is uncertainty, there is real estate being used in her brain. Absolutely certainty = no interest

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillcad26 points27 points  (3 children) | Copy

And we know girls shit daily but if you invited one back to your place and she hit the can and dropped a deuce with the bathroom door open you would be turned off by her lack of social awareness.

Soy boys seeking mommy's approval and thirsty losers seeking sex are same damn thing

[–]blackjustin2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Okay, so the general consensus seems to be that saying too much kills the fantasy. But why does this reverse behavior? Why does it go from her proving herself to me proving myself? What is it about killing the fantasy that makes her feel as if she has some sort of authority over you?

[–] points points | Copy

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[–]2awalt_cupcake0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

blackjustin has a point, why does one different interaction make her entire behavior towards you change for the worse? I've experienced something similar. It's like they "think" they got you all figured out now and that they've "won" some game you weren't even playing with her and they march away triumphantly.

Let me put it this way. If you finally told me something concrete, it doesn't have to be huge or personal, I would never start acting like you were a push over.

"Drivestoofast, how do you like to make your eggs?"
You: [explains how you make eggs and why you like them that way
"Ha! Fucking pushover"

It's entirely nonsensical but women do it enough that something ought to be going up in their brains.

[–]yumyumgivemesome2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Her insecurities/uncertainties are a powerful drug. We really do not want to bang all of them all of the time. When my options are wide open, there are several instances that I've declined easy sex. In one case, it made the plate crazy, even though she already knew I didn't want anything serious with her. She was basically begging for sex or even just to come over and blow me. It actually turned me off even more.

[–]RonieGarret13 points14 points  (17 children) | Copy

Oh, cmon what is wrong with expressing yourself?

Just dont tolerate bitchy behavior. You discovered her true face(and vice versa).

[–]blackjustin24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy

By no means am I a Red Pill guru. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in to give you an appropriate answer.

As an academic, I very much value hearing people's thoughts and emotions. When I tell someone, "Tell me everything", I mean everything. Spare no detail. I want it all. That's how you legitimately get to know people. There's some women who are like this as well. But in my experience, regardless of the relationship, most women aren't interested. I'm literally texting with a chick right now - She texted me some video (not a dirty one, standard youtube randomness), and I replied and tried to start a conversation, and she just ignored what I had to say and kept talking about what she's talking about. She doesn't want to talk, she wants me to listen. So now I'm reading her text but not really responding, and on and on she goes.

If I had to guess the answer to your question, I'd guess that this goes back to the biological imperative of finding an appropriate mate. I don't think this is something you can look at with a modern perspective, I think you have to look at the foundation of mankind; think about before humans even had language. If you can't speak, you can't connect with one another emotionally or intellectually , so what was the judging criteria? Being the biggest, baddest, strongest dude of all the men, and being whiny is the exact opposite of being powerful. It's not something you can take personally. It's just the way it is. Men naturally want to have sex with a ton of women, and women naturally want a strong provider. It's the human condition at it's most primal level.

[–]FractalNerve11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

You provide too much free meal. Free attention. Stop that. Now.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends what results you want and whether you want attraction or honesty.

Expressing yourself emotionally will only have her view you as weaker, less capable and make her feel more insecure in your leadership.

Expressing yourself like I think OP is talking about, is killing the fantasy. She perhaps had him as this interesting, mysterious, brooding thinker and then he probably explained it in way that made it common and uninteresting anymore.

[–]askmrcia8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh, cmon what is wrong with expressing yourself?

Just express yourself to a certain degree. You're a man at the end of the day. She views you as a man. The last thing you want to be is act like one of her girlfriends who complains about something that happened to them at work or their family. You can tell women about yourself, but at the same time don't over do it. You're the leader.

Look at it this way. Your qb (you the man) is the leader of the team. Once you start acting like an emotional basket case wanting to rant or express how you feel about something that has happened to you then that can negatively affect the team. No team wants to be around their leader who is crying about throwing 3ints or the coach calling the wrong plays. It's OK you bring that stuff up, but you don't want to be that dude who's always negative or venting about something.

On the other hand if you the qb see a teammate (your girl) acting up then you the leader needs to address it.

Maybe this helps better explain.

Also girls can be different. Some may actually be more tolerant then others and won't think of you as weak when you show certain emotions (again just don't overdue it) . The same way your teammate on the football team will have your back if they see that you're going through some shit.

In general though women are women and men are men.

Just dont tolerate bitchy behavior. You discovered her true face(and vice versa).


[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (12 children) | Copy

The dude was probably a neurotic mess. Women want to hear about the complex thoughts, not the emotional bullshit

[–]blackjustin1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy

Could you say more about that? (legit asking. This is probably a learning experience)

I wasn't super emotional about anything - I rarely am. I was explaining a complex thought, not whining, and the gal i'm referring to was def not interested.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (6 children) | Copy

When I explain to women that we’re made of stardust, or the infinite multiverse, or Buddha’s ideas of reincarnation and liberation I have never had a problem. They understand that I know more than them and love the feeling of a man knowing more.

But when I talk about how sad or worried or afraid I am, they are repulsed by the weakness. In your case if indeed you were talking about complex thought then it’s hard to imagine that was the cause of her disgust. Unless of course she’s just a trailer trash or druggie with serious inferiority complex.

[–]blackjustin0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Thanks for your response. Tbh, you guys are being super helpful but I'm way overloaded with information. There's a lot of things here to chew on and digest. In the meantime, I'll give a little more information about this specific circumstance and myself. (I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but this is legitimately where I think the problem lies)

So, I'm in academia. Non traditional student, both age and race-wise. I also have more than one learning disorder (ADHD, memory/spatial, math), and this has really unbalanced my knowledge level. What I mean is, the things I'm good at, I'm really good at, and the things I'm bad at, I'm really bad at. There's no comparison in the level of performance (I get A's, or I fail. No in-between). For me, I really excel in social sciences (specifically philosophy, psychology, other things that involve theories). Everything else is a bust. I'm calm and stoic most of the time, but if you get me going on one of my "things", I can go; if you ask me a question, I'll answer, and if you ask me a follow up question, I'll answer that as well if I can. Due to the ADHD, sometimes I find myself going from A, straight to Z, and then back to A, and I kind of wrap it all up in a neat package. (The ADHD is a very recent diagnoses. My doctor and I are still trying to find the right medication for it, but it's been a bit of a struggle). I think that can be really overwhelming for some people. I've been talking to a female friend (a legit friend, not someone I'm trying to sleep with) about a lot of psychology related things, and she told me my knowledge level was intimidating. I'm sure it' can be off-putting to some. I'm not a dick about it, I just answer questions as they're presented. I do have a problem making real connections with women. I'm not socially awkward, and I'm not bad looking. I do reasonably well with women, but when/if it gets beyond sex, it gets fucky. The real answer to my problem is likely to STFU, but in an academic setting, it's a little difficult when discussing class-related stuff.

She wasn't disgusted, but the conversations certainly changed. It went from her being open and honest to very short, one word answers, and the clear lies and manipulation began. I got tired of trying to decipher what she was saying, so I just moved on. She wasn't a hoodrat, but her family was full of hoodrats, so I think what she expected vs. what she got were very different things. She had several relationships with very physically abusive men and long term criminals, and I'm just not that at all.
(Edit: When I was writing this I began reflecting and realize I probably go a little too hard with answering questions. But I'm not sure how to balance it out)

[–]Chaddeus_Rex2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

So, I'm in academia.

That's your problem. Stop thinking like an androgenous academic and start thinking like a man.

Go out and skydive. Go do some winter camping. Go hunting. Go to the slums. Go get your face punched in, in the ring. You will learn much faster and be more worldly and less neurotic.

Have you read 'The Sea Wolf' by Jack London? Be like Wolf Larsen not the pussy ass academic.

[–]blackjustin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I literally LOLed at "angrogenous academic". True story. I actually used to be quite competitive in the local MMA and BJJ circuits. Injuries forced me to give it up, which is how I got into academia. It's not that I'm not masculine. I've dated several young ladies where you could kinda do what you wanted with them... but at the same time, we're in a different era now, and it's not always... safe.. yeah, that's the word we'll use. It's not always safe to behave in such a manner. Sometimes you don't know what type of woman you're interacting with until you know.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's not always safe to behave in such a manner.

It's not safe unless you position yourself as a dude that does these things. If it is known you do things like this you filter out girls that don't like it.

also from my experience guys in the bjj gyms I've been at haven't been the most masculine. in contrast, in my city the boxing gyms have excons, bikers, inner city types and just generally masculine dudes. its healthy for ones soul to socialize with these guys.

[–]blackjustin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So I entirely agree with what you're saying. I think there's a lot of validity there; word travels, and that word will separate the women who do and do not. That said, I'm real close to graduating and I think I'm going to err on the side of caution with this one. Personal success over women.
Also, you're right about BJJ/MMA gyms. The culture has certainly changed over time. I got lucky and got in on the ground level of MMA in my state. There were only a few gyms in the area, and they were all very old school. Some were full on meathead gyms like you said, some weren't. I certainly took a liking to the more savage of the gyms.

It's weird listening to new practitioners talking about their theory of self defense. "If I were in a street fight, I'd just hold an armbar until the guy tapped". To me, that's weak. The rules go out the door when punches get thrown. When punches get thrown, I can tell you the with complete honesty the first thing I grab is coming home with me, and I don't care if it's an arm or an ACL. People are weird....

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy

You killed her fantasy. Woman have a tendency to fill in the blanks with fantasy and wonder.

She probably had your thinking down as complex, interesting, meaningful thought.

Upon explaining it as nothing special, with it goes her fantasy.

It's now just plain old boring reality. A woman's desire/attraction generally lasts as long as the fantasy does.

[–]blackjustin1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Huh. Interesting. And it makes sense in a way - I gave it to her a few times and she went from LTR and children to clearly turned off. Weird concept.

I see you have a "endorsed contributor" next to your name. Does that mean you're a pretty solid RP authority? If so, I'd like to shoot you a PM and ask a question.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

It's probably part of it, there's alot of factors at play in a LTR dynamic, most have to be on point to maintain attraction.

Yeah, rules and glossary on the side bar explains it further, read the entire side bar if you haven't already.

As for PM, fire away.

[–]blackjustin7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm gonna take a little time to re-read the sidebar. If my question still isn't answered, I'll PM you. Thanks man~

[–]albino_red_head1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I was with a girl for four years, and as soon as I expressed myself, she started acting like the dominant one of the two of us.

What about when setting boundaries. I don't come across too many cases where I set a boundary and there's zero explanation. That explanation requires some expression of where the boundary comes from. Not hugely problematic but looking to get your thoughts as I can experience anxiety depending the topic.

[–]FractalNerve1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Exactly my thought. I talk a lot, but never talk about what is going in me ever with women. The first time I did I lost her in 2 weeks. 2nd time in 4 weeks. Hey, it really sucks that you cannot share your inner thoughts with anyone anymore unless you are OK with losing any value you have in their eyes.

No strategy?

[–]scuervo12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's what guy friends are for.

[–]p3n1x1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just STFU. Which, honestly, is a bummer.

This is why you save it for your buddies. She 'ain't yo buddy' that you philosophize with.

[–]poet_and52 points53 points  (5 children) | Copy

This! This is so weird, i feel comfortable talking a lot and explaining stuff. At some point I thought "Maybe I'm a gifted lector!" But now i realise its beta as fuck. How does one stop this verbal diarrhea?

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (1 child) | Copy

Say what’s essential and don’t explain it

[–]FractalNerve9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

That should be bold! Hung on your ceiling and be the first thing you see when you wake up

[–]yumyumgivemesome2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reading these helpful posts on TRP is a good start. You and I have both seen the advantages to shutting the fuck up and leading, and we've seen the consequences to over-verbalizing our thoughts and decisions.

This particular post is timely for me because now I realize my texts with a girl last night were very clearly over-analyzing the date we have set up for tonight. I almost totally fucked things up. Even though I would very much like to ask her questions about how much time she needs to get ready after work, whether she wants to grab drinks near her place or near mine, what time her curfew is due to her 8am work tomorrow morning, etc. ... now I have been reminded that I need to make the best guess of what those answers would be that will place me in the best position to fuck her tonight, and then tell her where to meet me.

It means we do way more work in our heads with the planning and simply feed them what they need to know and nothing more. Every step of the way becomes a surprise and an adventure for them. To the extent they trust us, they absolutely love being taken along for the ride.

[–]Chaddeus_Rex2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

When you have the urge to explain something. Just smile (preferable mischeviously) instead. Problem solved.

[–]BrownGummyBear0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Get friends to talk about your passions. I used to talk in detail about my passions but not anymore

[–]pythasaurus50 points51 points  (4 children) | Copy

Posts like this is why I still stay subscribed to TRP. I feel like there have been an abundance of shit posts and disguised ego stroking on here especially since the quarantine. Thanks OP, saved.

[–]yumyumgivemesome2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I completely agree. This particular post just saved me from screwing up a date tonight that I was already starting to verbally over-analyze with the girl. Now I know I need to do the mental legwork myself and then simply tell her the time and place.

[–]jeunpeun990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Be aware that saved posts on reddit will be deleted when our subreddit is removed. There are several backup sites as you probably know.

[–]pclinuxmac26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men are leaders. The best leaders get straight to the point and get shit done. Don't pussyfoot around just be straightforward and "alpha" as fuck

[–]SlimShauny22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

Somewhere in the middle of mysterious/stoic and energized/entertaining is where you need to put yourself. I've always found this to be my biggest struggle when I'm first getting to know a girl; first impressions are everything. It's tough personifying cool, calm, and collectedness without seeming boring

[–][deleted] 58 points59 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sometime before Christmas I went to grab a couple of things at the grocery store and got to the register the same time as an attractive blonde. She said that since I only had 2 things I should go ahead. I said thanks and went first. When I took a glance back she was giving me a smirk, obviously impressed that I didn’t do what 90% of men would have - insisted she go first. A simple example but definitely the mindset we need to adopt and build on.

[–]Thunderbird9314 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

It boils down to domination. Females are hardwired to submit. As long as you express and display a dominant frame she will fall into yours and probably fuck you

[–]Andgelyo7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Direct masculine language is key. It’s how confident leaders talk. The unsure beta stutters and makes long conversations. The masculine confident man almost commands his conversations.

“Let’s grab some hot chocolate some time.”


“I was wondering, if you don’t mind, would you be free this Saturday? Maybe we can grab some hot chocolate if you don’t mind?”

Direct language is the language of men.

[–]jonpe8712 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

It helps to develop mental tricks to put you in that mental aloof state of zero fucks overlord

One that helps a lot: imagine that girl super fat, look to her belly and imagine how it would be like with more 50lbs, you have to do it at the very moment that you see the girl, it tricks your brain cause it doenst know what is reality and what is not, you can sense the disgust feeling and the respulsiveness of the probablity of any physical contact.

so when you go for the kino, gets back and say, you are more fat than I thought

[–]UrgotMilk6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn this really hits close to home. I have struggled with this for so long and even just now I went back and realized I just included the "If you don't like it we can go somewhere else" line when making plans for this weekend.

I've always preferred to get everyone's opinions and thoughts before making a decision, and I've always been a very flexible person so I usually want to make sure people know that I'm open to anything. But man, when it comes to dating it hurts me so much (although I really should stop doing it in normal life too). Really hard to break the habit.

[–]Fulp_Piction4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just stop giving a fuck, it's not hard. I know everyone loves new content here and any attempt at it is fair enough, but thats all there is to this. Be the uncaring asshole.

[–]Kpwn883 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

a battle for who was at the bottom of the barrel

Oppression Olympics aka Liberalism

[–]meowgoesdog3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hey maybe we could go to the movies it would be a really nice time and I think you'd enjoy it a lot

Saying things like this is not just overexplaining for no reason, it is basically trying to present the idea in a way that makes it seem more attractive, and you deciding to do this with a girl will show that you think she needs some sort of compensation for coming to the movies, that just going there enjoying your company is not enough, basically communicating lack of confidence and putting her above you (since you are the one fighting for the date to happen).

That is why short direct communicating is so powerful, it shows you know your worth

[–]YasserZe7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your Title looks like YouTube clickbait

[–]opper-hombre12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Loved the movie example. The long response kinda sounds desperate and you REALLY want her to go to the movies with you.

Short response shows a much more IDGAF attitude. I don’t give a fuck whether or not you say yes because I got other options!

[–]liquorbaron1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Hinging off of her opinions when choosing a venue

What do you think of dinner? What kind of food do you want? What are you in the mood for? Is Italian okay?

Again this is searching for approval, but most importantly it shows that you don't have the balls to make any decisions."

Or more like I don't care enough to be bothered to put in effort to remember every fucking place in the area that serves food in some capacity. I would usually wait for the girl to list off places and just shoot each one down until there was one I wanted to go to.

[–]Bilskee10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post OP. Something I had to learn long ago. Use less words to actually say more. Silence makes the hamster run fast.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for this bro. I tend to do alot of the above and never even knew I was doing anything wrong. Noted.

[–]Fraita0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Shit... This really stuck to me.
I've always been a master to continue a conversation, but it's because I do all the things above and it has landed me in Friendzone a COUPLE of times.
Sure I've still fucked some because of it.

I've noticed that girls like it in the beginning first/the second week, it really hooks them because they feel that you're master of social life but after two weeks/first sex they get tired of it and it's kinda needy.

What do you think? (haha, nr. 5)

[–]2INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

All about IDGAF. Why waste your time overtalking to someone, who has proven absolutely no value to you? Get the fuck outta here, with that attitude.

IDGAF and abundance. With those in your frame, less talking will be organic.

[–]olimpicus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, the examples are very good!


[–]apost540 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I actually just watched aquaman with a girl and then she gave me head in her car after. Paid for everything too.

[–]JohnIan1010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Recently I saw two people waiting in line insist that that the other person go ahead of them repeatedly for about a minute.

Yes and no.

One of them may have busy at moment, needed a bit of time for themselves. If not, then yeah.

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

TL;DR... make yourself your mental point of origin, i.e., "i am the prize."

note: it doesn't work if YOU don't firmly believe it yourself. and don't ask women questions; make decisive statements and act on them.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This isn’t what this post is about

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

right before #1 by OP... "putting yourself above a woman..."

imo, if you adopt that mindset, AND BELIEVE IT, the rest falls in place.

[–]santino3140 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Not trying to contradict you, I'm just trying to reconcile your tips with some stuff I've read in the past.

In Dale Carnegie's How to make friends, he talks about framing everything proposition in terms of the benefit to the other party. In your first example, the first phrase mentions "I think you'll like it", which I think is closer to what Carnegie is saying.

Second, I am all for being succinct, even laconic. Hell I used to be like that. However, in some social skills books, they always mention how you should give "long" answers, so that people have something to bounce off in conversation.

Is there something I am missing? How do you pull off being pithy without being curt?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dale carnegie is useful for general social skills. Realize it’s BP oriented. Doesn’t mean you cannot apply what is useful.

Making friends and picking up gals are two separate skill sets. They overlap some but they are polar opposites in other aspects. In a non-sexual setting, building consensus can be an effective strategy. In a sexual situation you’re not going to convince a girl with words to bang you that wasn’t already into you. No desire is negotiated.

See the difference?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"I think you will like it" is not giving the party any knowledge of the benefit. It just comes off as needy for the most part.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is long way to explain not stepping into her frame.

[–]Bing_Bang_Bam-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

So don't ask her opinions on anything. Treat her as subhuman. Got it. I dunno when I go out I like to be loud and drink and sing karaoke.

I like to the loudest most obnoxious mother fucker in the room. I like to ask people's opinions but I usually don't care what they say

Of course it's been a struggle getting laid lately....

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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