Being controlling is for losers!

Sturmgeist781 · 2014-06-17T18:48:29+00:00

Good thread Arch.

I let women I date do whatever they want. It's my choice if I choose to associate with them after what actions they've decided to take.

streetsorcerer · 2014-06-17T18:07:21+00:00

Stupendous synopsis of the redpill philosophy. What really irritates many feminists is not that they perceive this behavior to be an attempt at controlling women...rather, they see it as an attempt to undermine their CONTROL over men. By not bending over backwards and treating women like queens, you are actually being "manipulative" because that causes them to view you as an independent and uncontrollable male...this both irks and attracts them.

vandaalen · 2014-06-17T21:23:46+00:00

The problem is that many guys here do not even understand this.

They tend to think of TRP of being some magical mumbo jumbo to magically make other people - and women in particular - do what they want them to do. They are still caught in their BP-nice-guy mindest where it is possible to do certain things to "trick" everybody into changing their personality and behave the way they want them to.

They still deny the fact that there is no way (other than violence - physical or psychological) to own somebody's body or mind.

Women will not draw their jaws and faint in aww just because you choose to behave like a bratty douchebag and a controlling asshole. A Jenna Jamenson will also not magically become a Virgin Mary. Sluts are gonna slut, bitches are gonna bitch and hamsters are gonna ham.

You might always be able to make them suppress their true personality for a certain period of time but ultimately their true ego will want to break free.

So in the end it comes down to yourself. Firstly you need a set of rules you apply to people sourrounding you. What do you expect them to behave like? What is a no go? What are you willing to tolerate? What is inacceptable to you?

And then you need to live by this rules! This involves being able to drop people which violated these rules. Only if you are always righteous in your actions and are willing to take losses will you be percieved as being confident and strong. You need to be able to communicate this in a clear way.

So instead of trying to control people by constantly telling them what to do and what not to do they should know what they are expected to behave like upfront if they want to be with you and that you are perfectly able to terminate them from your life if they fail to do so.

This is nothing that you constanly communicate. Nobody is interested in your current bitching about what they should do or shouldn't do. Nobody.

So you need to become a person who is so valuable to people that they will gladly like to follow you. Being controlling is a trait nobody likes by the way. People will stick to you although you are controlling not because you are controlling. And this only if you your value is high enough to them.

And never underestimate people. You might think you are kind of superior just because you've read some articles, watched some videos and finally accepted the truth.

Just because they are in trance doesn't mean they are dumb and are not able to see right through your insecurities.This race is old enough so that we all have a gut feeling or at least a subconciousness. Just because people don't know why they think you are a whimp doesn't mean that they don't.

To be righteous in believeing for yourself that you deserve to be leader you have to firstly start bettering and improving yourself so you become the person you for yourself think would be the idela leader that you will like to follow. Just telling everybody that you are won't get you anywhere.

Edit: You also need to accept that people are different. We've all got our BIOS running, but the operating system and the software is slightly different in everybody. Learn to embrace these differences and don't try to reboot the machines and hack into superuser mode. This is what makes life interesting and exciting. Trying to change it will only end in frustration again as being the nice guy did.

Start observing and listening to other people and combine it with what you've learned about our true nature so far and you will see the connections pretty quick and clear.

And instead of thinking: "He/She did do this. What an asshole!" start asking "I'm curious. Why would he/she do this?". This will get you much further than mocking and getting angry at people for being people.

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T19:02:56+00:00

What's fascinating is that when women behave like this, it is just them empowering themselves and not manipulation...if a man dares to step outside of his subjugation, then he is all the sudden some kind of evil monster...why? Because he tipped the balance of power back in his favor.

ss4james_ · 2014-06-17T18:26:50+00:00

This is a great post and should clear up some misunderstandings about what TRP is...

I simply changed my behavior and my SO just settled nicely into being second in command (we were arguing before TRP), things just kind of clicked when I let go and stopped giving a fuck about what she does.

Ultimatly, it's for women's benefit, we're becoming the type of men that women desire, not the type that women settle for.

Relevant Elliot Hulse video:

http://youtu.be/_YNB39MwYhM

Johnny_Shades · 2014-06-17T20:41:24+00:00

This should be required reading for ALL red pill subscribers and visitors.

Invalidity · 2014-06-17T18:57:05+00:00

It's the same tactic as calling someone out on trust issues or insecurity. Having a preference is not the same as telling someone not to do something. If you tell a girl that you don't want to see her going clubbing with her girlfriends and that you'll leave her if you do, is having conviction about your values. She is free to make the choice, but likewise, you can make your own choice should she make that decision.

Now if you told someone that they cannot do something... that is the essence of being controlling.

sithman25 · 2014-06-17T19:47:51+00:00

I think the discussion of being "controlling" or not is just a straw man that is meant to take us off base, discussing it and how we aren't controlling is in my mind akin to the feminist nut cases that want people to stop using the word bossy.

I am controlling and I'm keeping my frame. I want control over my life, my body, my freedom of choice, I don't want to be limited by mass societies whims, hubris or hedonism nor it's demands of obeisance.

I would force one thing on all man kind so that I might live a better life and also my children: Self Awareness. In this I am outwardly controlling but if one decides upon his role in life after thorough introspection I will respect any decision that individual makes but I refuse to respect the life choices of people that follow the flow of a culture and society that inherently disregards mankind's capacity to be civilized.

If this is some sin in the eyes of the world to day then so be it but I hold by this conviction; If man wont think before he acts then he is not man but animal. In this I am demanding, critical, unforgiving and controlling. I expect more of us.

supersonic620 · 2014-06-17T20:49:53+00:00

On the contrary, when I was bluepill, all I did was try to control women by being nice, being attentive, a good friend. That was the real "manipulation". I would put their needs above mine, in hopes of getting affection from them. Now, I do the exact opposite. Don't try to control them at all. Aloofness and focused on what I want to do. So much more fulfilling and fun!

Drogoe · 2014-06-17T19:55:38+00:00

Very good post. The only additional point I'd make is that there are occasions where putting your foot down is appropriate, such as if she's disrespecting you (by say texting her exes) and trying subconsciously to see how much she can get away with. Or if she's being a negative little brat. Especially as you get further into an exclusive relationship, giving a girl firm boundaries-- accept them or fuck off-- is important

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T20:01:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

jorgander · 2014-06-17T20:49:00+00:00

James Marshall talked about this. For some reason I can't link to the exact time, but it starts at about 44:45, and his main point is at 47:48:

The only way in seduction that leadership is of any value, and that you have an authority as a leader, is if when the person follows you, they benefit. A good leader [...] leads through making sure their subjects benefit every time they ask them to do something.

The TLDR is don't just control or lead for the sake of controlling or leading, make sure your actions lead to positive results.

streetsorcerer · 2014-06-17T20:22:45+00:00

RedPill behavior is easily imitated. ANYONE can come on here, cherry-pick what they read, validate their hatred of women, pretend to be a tough guy, and bully others around without changing their behavior. That's the kind of "men" that our detractors are desperate to believe that this place will create. They had to create an entire subreddit to convince themselves that we're creating manipulating, controlling, douchebag- rapists.

The truth is something worse than TheBluePill can ever imagine. And that is that for those of us that take the time and patience to change ourselves from the inside-out, that take these lessons to improve our lives... no one will ever know. People will only see the outward product of our hard work: the object of (most) women's desires. Redpillers are women's boyfriends, husbands, sons, cousins, and nephews. We're getting larger every day, so yes, there are some vocal, bitter assholes in the mix. But we're also the handsome business executive you saw at the bank. We're the witty and charming man you met in line at the grocery. We're the muscular athlete you saw leaving the gym the other day. No one in my life will know I'm subscribed here, and no one here will know who I am in real life.

Those who take this seriously, and are in for the long haul will change their lives in a way that others will notice with overwhelmingly positive reactions. They'll never know which forums you frequent. Those who see the bigger picture, and read the nuance in the RedPill message will know that YOU are the only person that you can control.

Awesome post, as always. Thanks Arch.

otiswild · 2014-06-17T20:14:40+00:00

Women have the right to do whatever they want with their lives, and to pursue whatever kind of happiness they want, however they want to go about it.

Not entirely correct.. If 'however' means they want to use my money in the form of taxstortion, then they can go fuck right the hell off.

RedEcstasy · 2014-06-17T21:29:37+00:00

To be fair, the vast majority of question asked on asktrp could be answered with "Next!".

Not only we can't control women, but also there's no point in worrying about the fact that we can't. There's no point in worrying about the veiny dick that could or could not be inside your girlfriend while you're at work. What good will worrying about it do to you?.

This is a difficult concept to grasp for those who are still pursuing the futility that is monogamy. While monogamous relationships are still possible, it's not realistic to aim for them in western culture.

Unicorns are called that way not because they're rare, but because they don't exist. They're a fantasy. The only thing stopping your beloved unicorn from jumping to the nearest high SMV dick is herself, not you. While you can influence her by becoming a high SMV male yourself, you can't truly control her. Remember that even some top of the drawer males still had cheating wives.

No amount of money, fame, SMV, alphaness, or red pill knowledge will beat the all mighty hamster-driven hypergamy. Accept this, and adapt. Do not complain, do not despair.

As Archwinger pointed out, the only thing you have truly control over is yourself.

Anon_Dutch · 2014-06-17T20:33:24+00:00

Excellent summary of RPT, what we advocate and what we do not. That being said, to an extent "influencing," "manipulating," and "controlling" are synonyms with different connotations. Influence is viewed favorably, while manipulation and control are viewed negatively, but each is altering another's behavior according to your preferences. To those with a Kantian view of ethics, this could be seen as using another person as a means to your ends (which Kant rejects as unethical, instead he asserts that people must be viewed as autonomous beings with their own ends, not to be relegated to means to your ends). I do not share Kant's view, but it explains the negative connotation with manipulation and control. Why influence is still viewed positively in society I cannot explain. Personally, I view influence, manipulation, and control synonymously and positively.

j_arbuckle2012 · 2014-06-17T21:11:13+00:00

Dread game is fundamentally about flipping the power dynamic in relationships in your favor. That is manipulative and controlling at its root, the real type of control: control of yourself and your environment. We espouse dread game all the time. When we recommend soft or hard nexting a girl, we are controlling. The Red Pill is all about control.

It's not shallow control of another person though, it's control derived from man's three great battles. Man vs. the environment (dread game, and Game), man vs. man (social skills and the "TRP Mindset"), and man vs. himself (physical fitness, self improvement, meditation, etc.). In this way we control our lives and those of others who can't control themselves. So when they say The Red Pill is controlling, it really is. It allows us to control those who can't control themselves. Who can't self-regulate their shitty emotions and weak egos. Who are so helpless, so dependent on the system that they can't disconnect and see reality for what it is.

iluminatiNYC · 2014-06-17T20:59:54+00:00

I think a lot of women assume that since they've dealt with controlling men that AMALT, then project their issues onto other men. Let's not pretend that dudes don't work out or get more money or do all sorts of stuff to control women. The question is if one is focused on yourself or focused on others. If you're focused on yourself, it doesn't matter what other people do. Just make sure it's SELF-improvement.

RebootedMale · 2014-06-18T07:21:26+00:00

Any woman I am involved with is free to go at any time. They can stay if they follow my rules.

It's time for feminists to stop treating women like dumb little puppets that have no free will.

M_rafay · 2014-06-17T20:46:36+00:00

Can I just say I love your posts?

Offensive_Brute · 2014-06-18T01:18:12+00:00

Women require men to take a leadership role and that requires a measure of control. Pretending you don't value a woman isn't going to stop her from straying any more than it would stop a cow from wondering off your property in the absence of fencing or restraint. The idea that this human livestock is ever going to respect you or be loyal to you is silly. They are like children. Almost pure id. Functioning solely to satiate their needs and wants with little to no regard for anything else. They need to be managed and handled. Hell a lot of them want it.

greycloud24 · 2014-06-17T18:24:12+00:00

the red pill is about truth first and foremost. the truth is that what you have said is the most successful and humane plan of action in the western world. but the truth is also that western society is not the only society. the truth is that being a semi decent human being in a less humane area will provide you with all of the benefits of being alpha in the western world. the truth is that in poor countries with limited freedom there are entire cultures of beta chasing women. who live in fear of acting on their hypergamous natures because of the societal retaliation that will occur against them if they do. the truth is that if you are a western beta, that you will treat these women better than their local men will, and her life will be improved as well as your life will be improved all the while she will not cheat not out of fear from you, but from fear from her own family.

you don't have to control someone in an environment that already controls them. and there is no environment where people aren't controlled. you are controlled, i am controlled, all men are controlled, all women are controlled. finding an area that controls society in a manner that you are willing to live with, and are able to live a lifestyle that you want to live is a truthful option that will help many people.

you don't have to stay in western society if you don't want too. if you don't like the way western women act, than moving to a non-western country might be the right course for you to take. but if you want to be successful with women in the western world, the common red pill posts apply to you. but don't let them lie to you. beta is not worse than alpha universally, it is only worse in countries that have had significant exposure to feminism and allow for unchecked female hypergamy.

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T21:37:21+00:00

Good read, but I have to add one point: you should share and convey your boundaries with your LTR because two persons of different backgrounds, upbringing and experiences will hold a different set of boundaries. Convey them and if she cannot respect you enough to never cross them, then it is up to you to walk away.

someboringdude · 2014-06-17T23:04:56+00:00

they see it as an attempt to undermine their CONTROL over men.

So much wisdom in this line right here.

ketebwoy · 2014-06-17T23:43:32+00:00

This was beautifully written. Watching weak men try and control bitches is such a sad but at the same time hilarious.

If they only knew controlling others is strength; controlling yourself is true power.

cdlawton07 · 2014-06-17T23:47:41+00:00

All the women I meet seem to love dogs and absolutely hate cats. I always have joked that it is because women like their dogs the way they like their men. Controllable.

ChauvOtoo · 2014-06-18T00:16:52+00:00

Solid summary, thanks.

Just as thought with this post, are we still improving the side bar? I feel like this could be tweaked to be side bar worthy... under the NEW HERE? portion.

highgrav · 2014-06-18T00:27:56+00:00

One of the best posts I've seen here! Awesome analysis.

no_face · 2014-06-18T02:00:19+00:00

If you become muscular and hot, you’re just manipulating women with your good looks.

Never heard that anywhere.

If you excel professionally, you’re manipulating women with your money and status

nor this

The closest I heard was supplicating with gifts and compliments in the hope she will sleep with you is manipulation (and rightly so)

Spurnout · 2014-06-18T02:39:22+00:00

I completely agree. One thing that I've been working on recently is emotional control and stability.

Evolved_Red · 2014-06-18T02:55:40+00:00

The night my fiancée left me (turned out she was cheating) I made the all night drive out from the place I once called home back to my parents house.

I walk in just shy of 5am and crash their bed, told my mom the engagement was over.

Mom tells me 'Well move on. She said she doesn't love you now, and you can never control what other people feel. You can only control things that you can do, so move on."

jm51 · 2014-06-18T03:42:56+00:00

Absolutely. I view this as a very healthy attitude towards relationships. No one should ever "pressure" the other person to stay in a relationship with them. That's just idiotic. If you're a good match and there's mutual attraction, both parties should stay as long as they are attracted to each other. And then, move on.

Even staying together because of kids or w/e is a bad idea. No one is forcing you to stay together, especially not your kids. My parents should have divorced a long time ago, but they stayed together because they thought it would be better for their kids, and they're still miserable. For their sakes, I wish they divorced a long time ago.

RobbyMalt · 2014-06-18T04:32:17+00:00

It so happens to be when you're behaving contrary to how they want you to behave you're labelled as a insert negative adjective here. Then everyone around them won't believe how much of a person you where all along.

through_a_ways · 2014-06-18T06:16:25+00:00

"controlling" "manipulative"

Unless you've got a gun held to your head, your fate is in your own control.

Summertime_Dimes · 2014-06-18T13:48:44+00:00

Well put, brah. From this sub I have learned so much about letting go of my flawed perception of control. From the time I wake up to the time I go to bed, I make the decisions about me and me alone.

The problem you expressed about being deemed to be "manipulative" is real. I have experienced it. I have no evidence to support this, but I believe that many pre/TRP bros do have certain behaviors that lean TRP. I certainly did. I would say and do TRP shit because it worked, but did not understand the actual reasoning behind it. In those moments years ago, I was 100% being manipulative because it worked.

Now, I have the same behaviors and a whole host of others which are full blown TRP. Some people who have encountered those behaviors in their past did so in the context of interacting with pre/TRP me and those like me. They have a negative association with TRP behaviors because they have only dealt with them in the context of being manipulated... Is my wild ass baseless theory on the subject anyway.

Luckly, IDGAF (thanks TRP! and Obama!) so if someone calls me manipulative it has no effect and I just keep being fucking rad as usual.

Fine Post, sir. Respect.

circlhat · 2014-06-18T16:46:50+00:00

Where The Red Pill and modern feminism and other detractors diverge, however, is that the others will tell you that self-improvement is cheating. It’s “manipulation.” If you become muscular and hot, you’re just manipulating women with your good looks. If you excel professionally, you’re manipulating women with your money and status. If you’re awesome socially, you’re just gaming women when you go out and wow them with your social network. And so on.

I never thought I would see the day where someone had to put words in a feminist mouth to prove point.

You make it seem like TRP is solely a self improvement site where we workout and eat healthy, when clearly it isn't, that is just the defense some members use. We believe in masculinity roles, shit test, last minute resistance, being aggressive, we believe rape culture is a feminist fantasy.

We believe in placing self above all else

sheds82 · 2014-06-18T16:53:05+00:00

Great post. Be the best man you can be.

elduckbell · 2014-06-18T17:06:11+00:00

If a dog pees on your sand castle, start a new sand castle.

Just heard this on radio commercial while reading your post. I thought it fit reasonably well.

triceratraps · 2014-06-18T17:34:59+00:00

I agree but I think this applies to all life not just females. You cant ever control anything external. You can increase the probability of certain things happening by expending energy but there is always a chance they wont. Thats why you cant attach anything emotional or "spiritual" to external circumstances.

symko · 2014-06-18T18:08:32+00:00

I've had a good time on TRP but it's clear to me now, "All good things must come to an end." No matter how hard you try to find a perfect watering hole, a pack of wild boars will storm the brush and make it their duty to defecate around it. I'm not going to call it, "circle jerking" because all men need to be aware of TRP. But one thing you never saw in a western was a bar full of deadly gunfighters. Kudos to "the Rifleman. I fucking love that show.

TRP is a stepping stone. If you don't know by now to improve your life then our mission here was meaningless. (for those of you who are new, this comment isn't for you)

You're being controlled by every aspect of your life, your creditors control you to get a job so you can pay them back. Your wife or your girlfriend controls you because her girlfriends control their men and she's not going to be the odd woman out. Your government controls you because you don't pay attention to the freedoms they daily eliminate.(redskins) Being you is great advice, however it's in one ear and out the other. Every person aspires to be like someone they admire, never wanting to be who they are.

How many people still wanna "Be like Mike" and drop 200+ dollars, or kill for a retired athletes tennis shoe and never saw him on live tv go for a layup?

If you can't control your wife, you most certainly won't control your children and they will run all over you. If being controlling is a loser, sign me up!

[deleted] · 2014-06-18T18:16:32+00:00

This should be pinned. I think there are people that post here that do have control/jealousy issues despite the fact that they are trying so hard to become what they believe is "red pill". The person that cares less in a relationship holds all of the power. Cheaters are going to cheat. You don't have to expect the worst out of everyone, but you have to learn to be content with letting life happen. Free will.

Rollo-Tomassi · 2014-06-18T23:31:48+00:00

On Possessiveness: http://therationalmale.com/2014/01/08/possession/

simontemplar60 · 2014-06-19T00:21:53+00:00

Nice post. Another way of saying this is "emotional independence"- and that would be from everyone, not just women.

Ktigers · 2014-06-21T04:35:11+00:00

This subreddit says the same shit, in a different can.

Almost like Kim Jong Il calling for peace in a UN buttfuck conference.

wakingupasneo · 2014-06-23T04:09:55+00:00

Being jealous and controlling is “beta.” Damn right. A newbie on this sub here, and I recently woke up to this truth. A girl who I let friendzone me for 2 long years, was nexted when I realized that I was becoming a jerk by trying to control her.

lorddeathhh · 2014-06-18T12:59:02+00:00

I just want to mention by directly controlling yourself and your actions, you are "indirectly" controlling your surroundings and the people located in those surroundings. You are being incredibly myopic, child; you are also employing fallacious logic; case in point: "You can’t control a woman," Yes, you unmitigatedly can. Just because you are neither charismatic, charming, nor good looking enough to do so doesn't mean they are incontrovertibly uncontrollable. Perchance when you graduate from high school you will realize the veracity in my sound contention.

doladolabillyall · 2014-06-17T19:03:09+00:00

You should have left our wives alone.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/i61aSmql7a8/hqdefault.jpg

[deleted] · 2014-09-17T18:09:58+00:00

Me: "alltight, you can do whatever you want"

Girlfriend go fuck somebody else/give a lapdance to somebody else/kiss somebody else/anything that I don't like

girl: "but you told me I could do whatever I want!"

What can I answer to that?

[deleted] · 2014-06-17T18:59:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

LordOfMurderMountain · 2014-06-18T02:12:02+00:00

Fucking bravo! Its great that someone was able to articulate our TRP philosophy so eloquently.

Title	Being controlling is for losers!
Author	Archwinger
Upvotes	942
Comments	205
Date	17 June 2014 05:50 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	TheRedPill
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/16778
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/28dxl5/being_controlling_is_for_losers/

Being controlling is for losers!

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How to Stop Being Creepy and Needy

Repost of "Compilation of rules I live by that you may find useful too"

RMV Checklist: How to know if a woman is good marriage material

Compilation of rules I live by that you may find useful too