The full extent of value that can be derived from a marriage has always seemed like a mystery to me. At first it was the Disney dream, but that was quickly killed after finding MRP and observing the effects of my beta experiences. After the sidebar reading, I spent months doing everything I could to make my life better and happier that involved only ME (slimming down, muscling up, getting out, keeping busy). After being really satisfied at the direction my life was going, I started working on parts of my life that involved other people (meeting new friends, red knighting old friends, finding new groups) and I found my life filling up more and more.

All the while I was applying RP to my marriage, and in the main event...sort of?, I described my vision that we would get to a point where we would give each other value, not as some form of this for that or out of obligation, but as a natural want just because. The idea is based off of some real life examples of people I've met/know now that give of themselves freely, and so much so that it makes me take a step back and say "You know what, I really APPRECIATE what these people do." It makes me feel like giving back to them, just because they give of themselves to me without expectation. That mutual value is ultimately what I want to shoot for.

 

Is it possible with marriage? Recently I've been looking for the continuum of just what kind of value a marriage can bring. On the low end I've taken note of posts on askMRP of just how low things can go...when a wife is slamming doors, getting revenge because her feelings were hurt, saying you can't go out, etc. And I really think to myself of how the wife and I used to play minor 'you did this to me so i'll do this to you' battles, but it never really got that vile. Then I read a lot of top posts from /u/subprimemate, from /u/2gunsgetsome, from /u/UEMcGill. I take note of the marriage /u/TheFamilyAlpha describes where he has stated before that 'friend, or lover, pick one' isn't necessarily true, and I've even ventured over to read /r/RedPillWives and see a few women who seem to take a conscious, joyous effort in their marriages. I see a lot of success posts where wives have turned around and are now jumping onto their guy's dicks with enthusiasm, but I'm unable to parse out:

Question 1: Successful men of MRP, is your relationship with your wife one that I describe above, where it's gotten to the point where there is no more scoreboard, where the value she gives she gives freely, and so much so that it makes you feel like giving that value back just out of pure appreciation for her giving that value? Does it get this good? Or is this a resurgence of a Disney outcome, and life with a wife really never turns into anything that good...it's just like success at lifting, at game, at looks, where it feels good, but it's just another piece of life?

 

I've also seen a lot of reports of men whose wives have found RP, or who were given books like First Kill All Marriage Counselors, which I read about in this post /u/BluePillProfessor authored. It begs the question that even though Rollo makes very clear arguments that women have the hypergamous nature they follow with their reptilian brains, and that a lot of the changes men make in RP to make their lives better influence the way their wives act (through dread, preselection, etc)...the thought has crossed my mind that women may have the capacity to change their behavior through conscious introspection. That their view of a marriage dynamic may be in part due to them being just as lost as us betas were pre-MRP, that they may just not know what they don't know yet. That maybe they aren't just lab rats whose behavior is influenced by what we do. I'm not saying I buy into this, I'm saying the thought has crossed my mind. So I ask:

Question 2: I'm not saying talk about fight club. But successful men of MRP, some of whose wives have found MRP or you have given them a book like First Kill All Marriage Counselors...or whose wives have otherwise changed their behaviors based on actually re-learning marriage dynamics from some source of information...do you think that some kind of learning process like this is ultimately beneficial in a marriage. Or do you believe that simply leading her to possible improvements, letting her decide whether to walk through the door or not, reinforcing those behaviors if she does and saying "oh well" if she doesn't is the right way to go?