I showed up at the soccer game today. It was her day with the kids, but I still wanted to be there for my daughter... and to see my boys. Any chance I can get to to be with my kids is a plus. Even though I see them 5 days a week, I'd prefer it to be 7.
I arrived and couldn't find them. It's 100 degrees outside. Ah, there was my youngest boy jumping up and down because he saw me. "Daddy! Daddy!" I ran over and gave him a big hug and kiss, some tickles. He laughed. He asked if we could wrestle. "Not right now. I gotta watch your sister play, buddy!" My oldest boy comes over and tells me about how he was hit in the face with a soccer ball and it was awesome. These boys...
I set my things down, and there she was in front of me, facing the field. I didn't recognize her. Her hair looked extra shitty today. There he was next to her. The other man. Oh shit.
For those that don't know the story, see my other posts. Over a year ago the ex of 15 years left me for the uber alpha male.
I was the sweet one. He was the asshole.
I was the guy who could change a diaper and wipe a butt faster than anyone. He was the guy who could lift a house.
He was the one who convinced my wife to do anal. I was the one who would rub my daughter's head when she cried asking why mama left.
In the past 15 months, I have been daydreaming about this day. Would I stab him in neck with my pocket knife? Would I try to show off my physical attributes? Show him that I'm not a worm? "Man, it's hot... better take off my shirt! Whoa, my pecs are glistening! These abs! So washboard-like!" Would I give him a big speech on how he caused a lot of heart ache for some really great kids? Would I cause a huge scene in front of everyone and go down in soccer field history?
Then I had a good look at him. I sat quiet in thought.
It's not his fault. He's a dude. He stuck his dick in crazy. We've all been there. He got roped in. He's now with a 40 year old woman with three kids. Her best days are waaaay behind her. He'll have to wake up next to a woman that he knows left her three kids and husband when the first whiff of something exciting hit her in the face. He'll learn of her childhood baggage. He'll learn of her addictive/impulsive behaviors... and he'll start asking her about why she spends so much on strange stuff. He'll be where I was in no time. There's no way in hell I would ever want to go back to that point in my life.
I get up from my chair and stand behind him. I say his name. "David?" He turns around and seems a bit surprised. I extend my hand. "It's nice to finally meet you." We shake hands. I go back to my chair.
Poor asshole. He's the real Beta, after all.
Thank you for sharing that. Sometimes you have to make a decision about how you choose what perspective to take. You framed a perspective that works for you and you engaged the world to make that a reality.
I don't know why but you saying that just made the whole concept of frame click for me.
I would still appreciate a ELI5 version of "the frame" to be honest
Eh its late but I'll give it a shot:
ELI5: You paint a picture of yourself and hang it on the wall for everyone to see. This picture of you displays your values, beliefs, Ideologies etc.
Some critics show up and will question whether or not this is an authentic painting. "Did you really paint this yourself? How did you do this part here? What does this represent?" (these are tests)
Holding frame is the embodiment of the painting in real life. If you differ from the painting, they'll know you didn't actually paint it. "That's not you, you faker". Once they've figured out that your faking, you lose respect and ultimately value.
What a great explanation. Simple to understand. I had an idea what frame means but now it's clear. Thanks.
Frame is the physical and verbal framework of everything around you that is happening. When a passenger gets into your car, you control the frame because you control what is going to happen.
When an alpha male of the group (AMOG) interrupts a conversation between you and the girl you are talking with, and takes over the conversation/discussion, he is taking over your and the girl's frame. He is controlling the verbal frame by controlling the focus of the conversation, and by doing that he is also controlling the physical frame because out of politeness, the girl is now standing closer to him in order to listen to what he is saying.
Frame is the environmental, logistical pattern around each person that determines their point of view, what direction they are going to "go with the flow", and where their focus is going. It is the picture that they see of the world they are entering and moving through.
When you are alone, you control your own frame. But when two or more people are together and interacting, usually one of them holds the dominant control and the others go along as passengers, or they take turns and share control of the frame.
This is so freaking trippy. I'm so glad I found this subreddit.
Thanks dude 1 coffee /u/changetip
The Bitcoin tip for 1 coffee (2.965 mBTC/$1.50) has been collected by Dream4eva.
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http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/
it's long-winded but a great read
The other poster's painting metaphor isn't bad, but I'll take a crack.
Think about it like how you might frame a shot when taking a photo. Depending on where you stand, what lens you use, what you focus on, what you crop out, etc. the same physical scene can be portrayed many different ways.
Your frame is similar. It's a matter of how you portray the world, including past, present, and future. I think there are two components: external and internal.
Internal frame is how you present the world to yourself. It's how you spin the past to be a lesson instead of pain, how you spin the present to be full of potential in every moment, how you spin the future to be brighter than the present by way of your own actions. Internal frame is created consciously by you, by actively thinking about how you would have it be, not through spontaneous rationalization (hamstering).
External frame is the projection of your internal frame onto the world. From the internal frame comes your beliefs about how things are; your external frame is how you present those beliefs to others (as necessary), including your emotions, your outlook, your communication and your actions. All of these things should be as consistent with your internal frame as possible.
When TRP advises someone to maintain their frame, they're talking about the external frame, generally within the moment of some interaction with a woman. Self consistency is paramount to making your external frame believable. Self consistency in the external frame comes from both having a really well developed internal frame that is in and of itself consistent, and having experience in knowing how to maintain that frame externally, not backing down or allowing your frame to be damaged by acquiescence the way a beta male would.
Note this doesn't mean being overly insistent, or controlling, or outright manipulative. It just means being consistent, sticking to your guns when challenged, and not allowing yourself to become wishywashy in order to please others.
As for your internal frame, it should always be evolving. You should be able to look back at your internal frame as of a year ago and think about how far you have come as a person in terms of your mental maturity and development. Sometimes, looking back and cringing at yourself is necessary - it's a good sign in that it means you recognize your own past failings and can seek better solutions next time around.
The perspective that your ex is post wall, sliding down faster by the year, and that some other guy is fucking her after she cheated with him, is a good perspective. Being able to fuck 20 year old girls instead of worn out 40 year old pussy that has had three kids shoved through it, is a good thing.
I don't like the guys either of my ex's are with, but it isn't because they are fucking a 41 and 32 year old that I fucked when she was in her 20s, its for other reasons. The first one molested my daughters, so if I liked him what would that make me? The second one lied and set me up using his job to get me thrown in jail for something I didn't do, so that is obvious. I don't care they are fucking post wall bitches. I do feel just a little sad for the second ex, she has really fucked things up, and she was good for me. Can't make choices for her, she has to learn the hard way. The first one worked hard at making her life shit, so she earned it.
The college girls are back in town, next weekend there might be some field reports from the old silverback gorilla.
yeah... that's also the definition of "hamstering"
That's an interesting point. My knee jerk reaction is that frame is conscious and self-aware, whereas hamstering is done at an unconscious level and is almost radical self-unawareness. Also frame is a perspective for future actions, whereas hamstering is a rationalization for past actions.
I'm not so sure about hamstering being just about past actions. I mean if a woman is planning on doing something like cheat on her boyfriend to be with an alpha, she is gonna find a way to explain that to herself and that to me is hamstering. Basically is finding a different explanation (usally a socially accepted one) to an action, to cover up the real, inconvenient one. In other words: hypocrisy. So frame to me is not trying to bend reality in an attempt to make it fit you and convince yourself that what you're doing is right, but rather, choose a path that you belive in and stick with it, being coherent. Cause ultimately that's what i think women are attracted to: coherency.
In your example, she's attempting to justify a choice she made in the past (even the very recent past), like choosing to engage in infidelity.
For the woman in your example, she made the choice THEN attempted to justify it. That is cut and dry hamstering.
Eh, a woman would hamster in the moment to cheat on her boyfriend, action of the future. Frame can easily be hamstering if used liberally.
That rationalization is unconsciously thought about. Frame should always be a conscious decision based upon an honest appraisal of the facts.
well i'd suggest there are many frame holders who hold frame unconciously
It may be an action of the future, but the decision had already been made. Thus the scrambling to rationalize.
Hahaha I never noticed how eerily similar they are... like the Yin and Yang.
While I do not agree with your post completely in this instance, it is a good point that should be kept in mind.
Yeah, I don't believe in the whole red pill nonsense, but I understand the perspective. Framing the making of good choices using correct information as "a red pill" is lame as shit, i.e. like the KKK using secret knocks, "cool" alias lame, but I see the reality of how male-female psychology/interactions are.
And the narrative of OP's is very legit and I'm happy that he's in a better place and he has settled into that knowledge.
I feel like you are right about this. If he is the 'Alpha asshole' as he projected initially, surely he has plenty of better offers than a 40 y/o mother of 3? If he's just in it for the sex why's he at her kids soccer game? It seems like he's been suckered in
It's possible for a good looking, fit dude to be every bit the beta a scrawny WOW-playing loser can be.
Real alphas don't settle for middle-aged single moms with three kids' worth of baggage. Real alphas only LTR-up for the hot, young wild ones who are so much easier and so much more fun.
This dude may appear to be alpha to OP's wife, but he isn't. He's a beta shlub, she's going to discover that in a couple years when she becomes miserable again, and she's going to want to upgrade again to get that haaappiness back, but that's going to be an option off the table due to her age and single mother status.
She dug her own grave.
natural alphas are much less predictable in there relationship behavior than "RP-alphas".
Its very possible he has other plates. its very possible he has been brainwashed by this woman (very easy to do to a dumb natural alpha). its possible he gets off on the power dynamic of the whole situation. she may have also asked him to come. who knows.
if hes around the same age as her i doubt hes in it for the long run. she may just be an awesome and easy fuck, for right now. she is probably also just as easily obedient due to her "baggage".
Even alphas can get caught up in a storyline - her the damsel in distress and he the heroic rescuer. A good story becomes the veil pulled over your eyes. You could be years in before you finally say "What the fuck have I done?" Having been reduced by that point to a beta shlub.
This need to play the hero is an exploitable vulnerability. Get over it, or fulfill your destiny playing daddy#2 for someone else's spawn.
There's no such thing as natural alphas. A man is made, not born.
Lol whatever you wanna believe. Natural alphas, as in they didn't need TRP to learn their behavior.
There's many alphas in this world who would laugh if you showed them TRP. To them it's common sense.
Then call em non-TRP alphas, people who figured out the lies on their own.
Besides, if you'd take a second to listen to any young kid you'd realise that this so-called alpha behavior is something every boy has before they get bent over by society.
No, in fact it's the complete opposite. I'm a person you would call "naturally alpha", I didn't need TRP to learn how to "be alpha" as I was fortunate enough to have a very alpha dad to look up to. When I heard about this sub I had the same ol' reaction as everyone, "a bunch of woman haters" until I actually read the side-bar. I didn't laugh at the stuff, I completely agreed and even learned knew things, because even as a "natural alpha" you can't know everything mate, natural alphas are worse alphas than the people on this sub. You know what else I learned? How to be beta, because knowing how and when to be beta is just as important as being alpha.
Yeah. OP is in fact the only one who will get off that story better than he was before.
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dude! I'm trying to eat a damn sandwich over here!
Seems very similar to a guy I used to rent a room to, He was 19 when I 1st took him in and seemed like a cool guy, Fairly alpha and in good shape, only problem was he was young and stupid.
he was blind to the risks you take when you are like that and bang random women, He hooks up with this chick who is like 28 but manages to look like a 9 with makeup ... Turns out she is actually married but end up divorcing the guy 6 months later, he keeps banging her behind his back and then after the divorce.
The chick seems nice enough when she is around for dinner but you can tell she is crazy when talking to her, she moves in like 3 months after her divorce which is fine by me because I get more rent.
After about a week they are fighting on a daily basis, and she is crazy... This shit goes on for a month he kicks her out finally but then Suprise! she is pregnant and says its his baby.
He now has to move out with a chick that is:
1\ Approaching the wall fast at age 29, Looks like a 4/10 without makeup.
2\ Is becoming a father when he has no way to pay for it, She has made it clear that she is keeping the baby and he told me her mother is harassing him to "man up".
3\ Is completely fucked when it comes to his career, Goals, Future that he planned out.
Also there is a very real chance that the kid isn't his, The girl before moving in was out partying every week and travelling to holiday spots with her GF's on her divorce money before she moved in.
Basically what I'm trying to say is being Alpha can backfire bigtime if you don't keep yourself focused.
No he isn't alpha at all. If he was he'd have used her as fuckbuddy to get occasional blowjobs. What he did was as beta as possible.
He was alpha before he bought into her shit, His previous Alpha side is what got her to fuck him while she was still married to her chump of an ex.
Edit: But yes I agree, I used to visibly cringe when watching the dude put up with her shit, Truth be told if They hadn't moved out I would have kicked them out in a few weeks time.
did you tell him the kid might not be his?
No, Keep in Mind I was his landlord so I'm not interested in biting the hand that feeds me.
i would understand if the relationship is ongoing, but if your landlord-tenant relationship is dissolving, what do you have to lose? maybe i'm missing something obviously.
Reduce the flight risk, You'd be surprised how many tenants bail and leave the rooms a mess, Sometimes even bond can't cover that and Tenants have the law on their side in my country.
If your kicking someone out or they are leaving you want it to be either on your terms or be there when they leave to do an inspection.
I have 5 rooms so over time you learn to watch that shit like a hawk or otherwise get screwed over by scumbag tenants.
Edit: To answer your Question about what do I have to lose ? Money... which is very important to my survival/future.
I don't think him being Alpha is wrong, he just wasn't careful enough.
The determination of him being Alpha or Beta has no meaning, he has the determination and the skills to get some. He simply handled logistics wrong.
Why not do DNA test? Why agree to move out so soon? Did he not see the history about to repeat itself?
No because he was too simple minded, You could tell when talking to him that he is the type of guy who does not think a woman is capable of that.
And being 20 years old was obviously too naive to understand why you don't date divorcees unless you have a REALLY good reason.
I really don't know what he's thinking. I do know that he has three kids, only one of which has his last name... so that seems to show a past history of bad decisions.
"He'll have to wake up next to a woman that he knows left her three kids and husband when the first whiff of something exciting hit her in the face."
Well stated.
You want my washed up leftovers? By all means. I have custody, just marry her already and nix my goddamn alimony payments, Man.
Oh, btw, meet my hot, pregnant 23yo gf; and her girlfriend because...
(RIP, asshole)
...and she's pregnant too.
Fuck yeah. Totally possible. Besides, Daddy keeps them in line these days. Don't put up with no bullshit these days.
Absolutely revealing of her true deep personal condition: trashy. Not a woman and not a person you could want to be around. I'm sorry for raven2000, who got his kids with her, instead of with a worthy and valuable woman and person.
I would say you got it right, you got the best years of her and children, granted you may be divorced but you rwally maximised your investment,
He on the other hand traded the rest of his life/freedom/money for anal from some old skank that he as you said will one day realize has no feelings for anyone.
I'm curious as to how he knows the anal story. Was she telling him, trying to make him jealous?
See other posts. I accidentally found some info, then hacked her iPhone backup and saw all their texts.
The one who got her best years was the one who got her virginity, whether it was raven2000 himself or another different guy.
And I don't want to make raven2000 feel bad.
I think raven2000 has already experienced as bad a feeling as can be experienced with regards to his ex.
So similar to my story. I could understand someone wanting to screw my wife, but marrying a 40 year old with three kids who ditches her husband out of boredom? Then I met the guy. He was just another loser. And worse off than me because he still didn't know what a bitch my old woman is. Now I chase young tail with no kids. Thank you life.
I thought you just said you had 3 kids.
Yes, to clarify I have three kids equal custody, the young tail does not. TRP + experience has taught me single moms are not date worthy. Even if you have kids, there is no reason to settle for dating a mom. The loser who married my ex didn't get that memo.
maybe this is just the weekend talking, but i really think it's actually critically important to fuck any ltr in the ass at least once.
I was harassing some chick online after losing to her in Starcraft 2. I was hiding structures and making it hard to lose because I was mad at losing to her. I was being overly disrespectful in my descriptions of how I treated my ex girlfriend to make her cringe through securing victory. I was telling her how I fucked my ex in the ass and made her bleed and the gamer said that anal sex is the ultimate compliment that a woman can give a man. After this she opened up a lot and was very interested in what I had to say. We would skype and basically became pen pals, which shared pics. That stopped when she admitted she wanted to fuck her brother and then she never logged on again or she blocked me. The last thing she said was "I've said too much".
OP how do you know he convinced your wife to do anal? Did she tell you?
This is a relevant question. I also want to know why OP didn't fuck his wife's ass? Clearly she wanted to be dominated in filthy, unspeakable ways. When OP didn't/couldn't give that to her, she found someone that would.
Think of it this way, raven2000 you got her when she was a brand new Chevy Iroc-Z28 in her prime, David got her after being lowered, engine rebuild, and a new front end(literally) but you don't need to hear that. You have the attitude of a winner. Good to see stories like yours have a happy ending.
All this guy got to do was get a new exhaust.
The "other man" got a shitbox with a head gasket that's about to blow
LOL!!!! I wouldn't object to 100 replies with shitty car metaphors.
Ya fell for the old put the banana in the tailpipe.
But seriously- forget the shitty car. Go get a shining new model and bring it to the next game. THAT is the update I want to read.
Cool! Good luck with your life!
Nah, man. The guy had a choice. He made a poor choice.
This was a good choice. Not the words I'd have used, though. "Nice" is not a word I'd have used, no matter how resolved you are with it all. Ah, well. Life goes on.
I'm curious, what would've had been your word of choice?
I probably would has said something more like; "It's about time we met." or something along those lines. Something that conveys absolute neutrality. Possibly a double entendre if you can pull it off subtly.
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While stroking your cat and secretly gesturing to a henchman.
If I had not previously punched him in the throat, I'd probably have said something very simple like, "Hi, I'm ______", and left my introduction there. I'd look him in the eyes, shake his hand, and watch how he responds.
Classic, but that was exactly the picture I imagined as well.
This is brilliant. It puts the onus of continuing the conversation on him, and you get to find out what he's made of, which is probably not much.
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Absolutely. It would only show insecurity if you insulted him. By taking the high ground, it seems like you have your shit together and matter more than he does.
Can't really do that in front of the kids.
Reminds me of Pierce Brosnan's character in Mrs. Doubtfire. Why the fuck would a good-looking alpha male want to bother with an aging woman (who really isn't that hot) and who already has three kids (some of whom are already teenagers). It's mind-blowing some of the lower SMV women high-SMV men will sometimes put up with. I guess this means the character in the movie was realistic, though. It really happens.
It could be because it's a movie, a work of fiction designed to pull a set of strings within all of us. Just spitballin here.
Yes, they overplayed it to make it obvious that Robin Williams' character felt the anxiety that Pierce Brosnan's character was a superior husband and father to him.
However, the point of my comment above is that, apparently, similar things actually happen in real life.
She must have been a real bitch for you to get the majority of custody. Be careful what poisonous lies she starts feeding them when she has them alone.
Or he'll cut her loose in a few years (or months) and go on to learn his lesson too and fuck someone younger chick. I'd recommend avoiding making up these extensive fantasies to make yourself feel better - this is what betas do to maintain their state. As tempting as it is to look for signs he's the true beta or whatever, it clouds how you view reality.
Yeah maybe, but maybe not. See, getting there is not easy. So you can't give someone credit he hasn't done yet.
We can always talk about the present and past. So putting someone with a label only concerns the present reagarding the decisions and actions taken in the past.
OP should evaluate his current position [in regards to the past decision and actions he made] in comparision to the other guy. A man without competition is nothing.
OP should feel better because he did take action to improve himself and he indeed has given his genes to the next generation. The poor beta (which was considered alpha) did not, so he ultimately lost the life game. So that's not even a fantasy.
There is nothing you could have done to punish him more than he has punished himself.
You have to remember that this guy and his ex are 40. These gen xers lived through literally the worst of AF/BB/feminist propaganda in history.
Give the guy a break.
There was no reddit and RP 15 years ago.
Alpha and beta are terms from ethology. Alpha is used to refer to the socially dominant mating strategy.
100 years ago, OP would be the alpha, no question.
Today, OP is considered to be the beta. Why? OP had 3 kids and is likely raising them well. How many kids does the alpha have?
We use 'Alpha' in a slightly different context around here. In it's distilled form it merely means a successful man, but more broadly than simple reproductive success. Alpha behaviour is thus whichever actions lead to increased success.
Being saddled with an unattractive woman with tons of baggage that will likely end up making your life miserable down the road is pretty far from anyone's definition of success.
The schadenfreude is deep in you. Embrace it.
I don't think if he took on a 40 y.o. woman and her three kids he's the "uber alpha male"
My ex whose been trying to win me back has been telling her current boyfriend that I'm the one obsessing over her. Pretty sure the guy hates me from false information.
I can't wait for the day that he calls or when I see him, I'll just thank him for helping me dodge the biggest bullet in my life. She's batshit crazy and they've been seeing each other for a year. When she was talking back to me she mentioned some arguments they had. This let me know that she wasn't one of his plates and he was actually invested in this crazy manipulating bitch.
So is he paying for/raising your kids now or is he just fucking her?
He's at her kid's soccer game. That should answer that question.
"Poor asshole. He's the real Beta, after all.".... Perspective is a wonderful thing.
Thank you for sharing this story. I recently saw the "other man" that my wife cheated on me with. I, like you wanted to destroy him physically but I didn't. I called him a piece of shit and a scum bag though
When you talked about the differences between you and him. It was similar to me and the other guy. I have a great career and he is a factory worker. I am built like a brick shit house and he is the one that can't afford a gym membership. I was a dedicated husband and he has cheated on her three times in the last 4 months. She caught the excitement. I wasn't exciting. I worked hard nearly an hour away from home so I never had the time to give to the marriage. She found a scum bag that had nothing to do except say the right shit to her.
Divorce happened fast. He actually tricked into to crazy ass shit that kept me from being divorce raped (big thanks for that i guess). I moved closer to work and I am trying to get my life back.
But thanks for sharing how you dealt with that for the sake of your kids. Serious respect.
You should be a author! I love reading your post!
"He's the real Beta, after all."
Well Damn
Women are pretty shitty. It sounds like you are a good dad. I can't really recommend marriage to anyone anymore. I can only recommend doing whatever you want with women, as long as you are honest with them.
How beta to concern you with all this :')
Sometimes the best revenge is time.
“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.” Sun Tzu keeping it real
Many of us here (in TRP) have been in your place. We were the good guys, the awesome partners, the unconditional ones... and they left us. We should be grateful. We learned how to be respectable traditional Men. We learned how being the ideal modern man is a recipe for disaster and how to avoid passing on the same flawed logic unto our children. The other guy got the worst part.
I really congratulate you on the strength it took to do what you did and welcome you to the other side. We are on the prime of our lives, we are free and know how to make the best of our different situations. Make money, get ripped, travel and enjoy making love to the many beautiful women a Real Man's Attitude makes available to you.
Live your life to the fullest, be a proud successful man and teach your son to be like you.
BTW, my alpha "other man" and my ex are past the honeymoon stage. She is her usual bitchy negative self and he is dirt poor... but by God is he alpha! LOL
Amen. A fucking men. He's with the damaged goods now.
the dream would be having a marriage until your kids turn 18 and move out of the home
I think you are rationalizing in order to not lose it, which i understand. Your options are limited. What are you gonna do? Shoot him and go to jail for twenty years?
That being said, no Alpha, in my opinion, goes to a soccer game with a mother of three and meets the kids. He's there for banging, nothing more. So this guy is clearly not playing his cards right now, even if he played the right before.
I think he will eventually bail. She might look to come back to you if the bills get to be too much for her.
I'm not going to sugar coat this for you, but your last statements reek of Beta rationalization. “He’s the real Beta after all” is the Beta hamster whirring away because your only frame of reality is in the context of what your egalitarian equalist conditioning has raised you to believe.
Even when presented with the glaring duplicity of your wife’s hypergamy, after 15 years of marriage, your ego protection is still about how much better you fulfills the gender equal role the Feminine Imperative has established for you than your wife’s new lover.
You're not a better slave than he is.
Hypergamy doesn't care about how well you change a diaper and wipe a butt.
Hypergamy doesn't care about your consoling your daughter when your wife left.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/05/16/hypergamy-doesnt-care/
Oh no... you're absolutely right! I posted this as a follow-up to my other posts which very bluntly state "Holy shit, all that good guy stuff meant nothing. She left for the poo-nanny tingles!" I was rehashing those things to reframe the issue... show that I was super duper nice guy and did these things, and here I am today.
You'll be happy to know I turned the corner in a big way and have completely reinvented myself.
Big fan, by the way. Bought your book a while back.
Have you read this ? We've been lied to. Women want men not the pseudo emotional men we've been told.
Kudos on the reinvention. I did the same and have never been happier. I also know it still hurts sometimes. Sadness, melancholy, anger, disappointment, the feeling of treason... they all go away with time. Good luck man.
I came here an incel and I will leave here an incel.
Most amusing post in this thread. Upvoted. LOL.
As soon as I read that he was at your daughter's soccer game with your ex I was confused as to why you would call him an alpha. No alpha would be sharing responsibilities in rearing another dude's jizz droplings. He would've peaced out a loooooong time ago, i.e., the second after he busted in her gross old mom-ass.
If this dude is really alpha and has any brain at all, he will dump her and her kids as soon as he's had enough of pounding her ass. Getting seriously involved to the point of no return with a single mom is one of the dumbest things a high-value alpha could do. I hope he is off to bang a college slut after the game.
I agree. I really don't get it, either. The guy does have the over-the-top alpha appearance, at least externally. But, the more I learn about him, he seems to be a serial monogamist. He marries/dates long-term, then splits and quickly jumps on to the next one. I know a lot of women like this. Plus all of his women seem to be very muscular. Last girlfriend was absolutely on steroids (I used to be in that world and there's no doubt). He may be giving my ex some anabolics, too.
The whole thing is very F'd up, for sure.
This was a great read. A lot of shit that gets posted on here is too long winded with unnecssary details, but you got your message across very effectively in a short manner.
Sadly, I read this wondering if you could be one of two friends that I have, except that a few of the details don't add up with either of them. If it helps, you're in a more common situation than you think, unfortunately.
God damn the red pill is hilarious.
Good for you for finally accepting the situation though man.
Excellent timing, read this brother: http://therationalmale.com/2014/08/24/back-to-basics/
Great post, man. Glad you could think of it that way, and that you're involved with your kids.
Sir, your head and heart are in the right place. You are exactly where you need to be.
My ex left me for some fucker, in a shitty story, learned about TRP then, decided instead of calling her and telling her how stupid she is for changing me for some futureless loser and asking her to get back I would rather let them be. And instead of thinking on how would I harm that bastard I decided to let it be too, he would not need my help to ruin his life, and little did he know how my ex was IRL.
They didn't lasted very much, his endeavor here failed miserably and he went back to his city, and I haven't heard from her in a couple of months(blocked everywhere because she kept randomly sending me emails about my posts).
And now I'm doing what I want with whom I want, much to learn ahead, but not dragging some heavy weight I don't need with me.
Meh I've had girls cheat on me with other beta males, and alpha males. Truth is girls are just crazy although they understand your mind and your fears so they can conjure up some image in your head pretty well and paint it onto whoever they want. But assuming the "other guy" is beta/alpha doesn't matter or that your wife is an old slut with 3 kids doesn't matter, they are just people doing what they do. The only comparing you should be doing is yourself now to who you want to be in the future.
That's the thing with cheating: Even if one person is significantly better than the other, the cheated on person allows feels lesser. It's why most people cheat in the first place, to ensure they won't be the ones feeling that way. It's the ultimate signal of not being good enough or valuable.
In this modern world men need to understand, more than ever, that they are the prize. YOU ARE THE PRIZE.
She threw away a lottery that pays her 100k a year for the rest of her life for that quick 300 grand instantly. This is what modern women do: choose the quickest means of gratification.
Good for you for seeing the optimistic view. So many guys here get so cynical and down but there's no need for it.
Thank you sharing this. Incredible Words, and seering truth.
Whether or not this is a true story, I enjoyed your writing style.
It would have set a terrible example for your children if they were to see you fighting. Good on you as your ex wife is already beating him up with baggage and the mental games.
What makes you think an alpha who can lift a house would settle for a 40yo woman with three kids from a previous marriage?!
The real alpha is your 40yo engineer neighbor who has a hot 25yo girlfriend and runs triathlons.
That's ME motherfucker, that's ME !! I'm 40 and she's 25 and I'm an engineer and I run marathons and shit (ok, i'm working on triathlons). I WON, I WON. What do I get? Oh ...wait ... nvm.
Dude ... NO!
She's 25 ...man, WTF? That's old, she close to the wall and ... nah, -20% off!
Engineer? Really ... unless you are the Robert Downing Jr of engineers ... -20% off
40? RP is 20 to 30 motherfucker ...you stopped matter 10 years ago ...GTFO -50% off mother fucker
No triathlons? That's old man ...-20% off
Oh, you're at -110% off ...damn, you BP motherfucker, GTFO!
But I thought I won!
Oh, crap ... I feel a Jack Daniels relapse happening right now!
AND you drink ? -20% off motherfucker
I dunno man, shouldn't you have pointed out that you can't go lower than 100% with cumulative penalties? Your score is 25.6% redpill, once you start to work on the triathlons and remote controlled gun turrets, you'll be golden :)
Although in earnest.. RP is 20 to 30? u/rubycando, the fun starts at 40, when you have the money and the experience.
+20% for us! YAY :)
Do paper planes and a tree house count? I also considering Pilates:D The way I see it is Pilates is the unnatural evolution of the word Plates! It does put the I in plates though ... food for thought.
If that is true, your life must be pretty damn awesome.
You realize that what you did was the male version of the hamster, right? You rationalized what he and your wife did and justified it all. You pretend that somehow you are better off and that he is the lesser man in all this. You need to nip that line of thought in the bud.
Take responsibility for what you did to become the kind of man that your wife couldn't be attracted to. Realize that this other guy won and you lost due to your own actions and behavior. This story is almost a perfect example of alpha fux/beta bux and you were the beta. If you don't realize this then you are going to hamster all of this away and if you do this you won't learn the lessons that you need to know.
Yes, he won. I'm fairly certain OP acknowledged that and most, if not all, of the other things you mentioned. The point here is that while the other dude did win, the prize was a shit stain on his rug. More of a "hahah serves you right" than a "well, I didn't fuck up after all!"
"You pretend that somehow you are better off and that he is the lesser man in all this"
Of course, the OP is better off as hes now not looking after an unfaithful wife. The other man is lesser as he has essentially been cuckolded into a relationship with a deteriorating woman with 3 kids
He's better off without her now but he could have controlled the situation before it got to that point. He isn't better off having his family ripped up. He isn't better off having to console his children when their mother disappoints them. If you the wrong kind of man long enough then don't get amazed when your wife turns into the wrong kind of woman.
It's the hardest part of the pill to swallow. I keep gagging on it and retching it back up, then forcing it back down with the bile.
Yep, you're absolutely right. I got to this place because of my actions... there's no doubt about it. She had baggage and all of that craziness, but I didn't do my job as a man to prevent the bomb from exploding and taking out the family. See my other posts... I go into detail. Lost my edge after a failed business and kids came.
I AM in a better place, for me personally... but it is at the expense of my childrens' well-being and mental health. That's something that's very hard for me to come to terms with. I could have prevented all of this.
You didn't read my other posts. All covered.
As much as I hate to say it, I have to agree.
Not saying OP should've decked the guy -- if he's spending time around the kids, he and OP need to have a working relationship.
But although "He's the real beta, after all" has a great ring to it, but it certainly doesn't seem to reflect the situation.
He handled the situation like a grown up.
What else can you do? Show your ass? Not an option. He's got to smile and play nice.
His wife left him for another man. Its a shitty situation anyway you slice it.
Knowing that his wife is a shallow dipshit might be somewhat gratifying, but now the best thing he can do is to just put the ex in the past and move on.
He needs to seek out and find happiness completely and utterly independent of his former marriage.
He needs to find romance/companionship/sex on his own terms now that is gratifying and fulfilling.
The ex is the past. He needs to focus on the future.
Haha, I was at like 20 upvotes, now down to 5 after you posted that.
I don't disagree with a single word you wrote. My issue is that OP is backwards-rationalizing his situation.
His wife left him for another man, which OP didn't want to happen. These are the facts, and all the pithy phrases about the other guy being a "poor asshole" don't change them.
I am glad that OP is able to see the bright side of his situation, but he didn't win this one. He lost. His post doesn't reflect that, and I think it should.
That's the woman he made a marital vow to, and dedicated himself to building a life with, getting fucked in the ass by another man.
But now perhaps, OP can indeed switch roles with other dude. He can now be the one out there spinning plates and having his way, while other dude is on lock down with a cheating whore of a woman - going to work everyday so he can write checks for kids that aren't his.
There's only so much solace you can get from that lipsticked pig of a situation, though. He's got another decade plus of seeing this cunt on a weekly basis, knowing what she did. That just fucking straight up sucks. No man goes into a marriage thinking that's the way he wants it to go down. That's some shitty ass lemonade made from lemons.
The point I'm making is that a marriage is different from LTRs & plates and we should not just shrug our shoulders and say well that's just those damn hypergamous bitches.
You should be able to have a reasonable expectation of marital fidelity. Should be able...
Unfortunately, in the way the world works today, we've come to expect differently. Women like OP's wife can shitcan their marital vow, breaking up a family for strange cock and get rewarded with the monthly perpetuity of child support (and alimony in some cases).
So lurkers often recoil from TRP when we say things like women are the most responsible teenager in the house.
When 80% of divorces are pursued by women and the #1 reason for divorce is leaving for another man ("dissatisfaction") - and these bitches are getting paid for this behavior - can you really blame us for coming to this conclusion? WTF?
The reality is yes, women are adults and should be held up to the same standards as men. That's called EQUALITY. Bad behavior is bad behavior. When large percentages of women in marriage pull this kind of bullshit, that's not anecdotal bullshit. That's something you should take notice of.
We can both identify and condemn such behaviors.
One thing, though I'd like to point out is - looking that motherfucker in the eye, smiling and shaking his hand like he ain't sweating shit - and then just taking it all in stride is definitely an alpha move. Absolutely 110%. Forget all the shit that's already happened.
That takes a man's strength and maturity to do. OP has his children to safeguard, and that includes protecting them from the truth about their slut mother - at least for now. He can't throw that shit in her face in front of them. They aren't ready for that yet. By the time they get old enough, it will have long since become a healed over wound not worth discussing.
Divorce with children is a fucking complex and mind-bendingly difficult thing. Women do some heinous, tantrum throwing shit that as a man - as a father - you have to deal with. Nobody will call a woman out on her bullshit, but you better believe the expectation to be beyond reproach will fall on you. It's some fucked up double standard lunacy that will blow your fucking mind and test your resolve to the absolute limit.
Once you get forged in that fucking crucible, you have no choice but to become alpha or get destroyed by it.
Wow... VERY well put. I'm going to copy this and save it for future reference. Thanks a bunch.
His victory story is about a specific incident not his entire life.
His move was the most Alpha thing he could possibly do in that situation.
I disagree. It wasn't a bad thing the way he did it but there are better ways. In my opinion he appeared too nice to the guy. He sought him out to shake his hand. He's the one building bridges after he was wronged. There's definitely better ways to deal with it.
+1
This is not a red pill example. This is a blue pill example. In fact it's as blue pill as it gets.
Case in point.
Mods should change this flair on this one.
Oh yeah, I totally had BP tendencies in the later years of my marriage. No doubt about it. I was reflecting that in the story.
Over the past year I've learned that, turned myself around... and now I realize he's the ultimate Beta for settling down with a 40 year old psycho with three kids.
Get it?
Being a good father is nothing to be ashamed of. Its not beta behavior.
On the contrary.
Being a good father is something a man does.
I agree.
But I quoted that bit to highlight how he frames the entire situation. Those two sentences sum up mental framework of the entire post.
There is nothing red pill about being friends with the dude who destroyed your family and stole your wife. It's just hamstering we see here. Well, the male version of hamstering.
This other guy might have ended up with a 40 year old now. But who gives a fuck? OP could have had provided and unbroken family to his children. He failed. How is this being a good father, please?
"OP could have had provided and unbroken family to his children. He failed. "
Why is the OP 100% responsible for the breakup of the family?
Shouldn't part of the blame go to the skanky wife who went to the other man?
Nobody said he is 100% responsible.
Can you say he is 0% responsible? I think not. What percentage is low enough for you to get him off the hook? 40%? 20%?
In the end. It doesn't matter. Responsibility is responsibility. And a man is responsible for his choices.
Lets put the blame squarely on where it needs to be - the ex wife.
OP did not break up his family. OP did not cheat. OP did not leave.
Ex wife did those things. Ex wife is a fully grown adult who prioritized her sexual desires over the well being of her children.
Unfortunately, in this day and age men like OP get left in divorce. 80% of all divorces are sued by women and the #1 reason women divorce is to leave the marriage for another man - hypergamy - either sexual or financial.
Yes there are things OP did wrong - like marry the cunt in the first place to begin with - and probably I would think repetitively failed shit tests, slacked off on his self improvement and forgotten about his masculine identity. However, it was the ex-wife who broke the marriage vow.
None of us should ever discount the fact that women are self-aware human adults who know the fucking difference between right and wrong.
OP provided and was a good father. Despite his beta behaviors, he still deserved better. He stepped up to the plate and wifed this jackass and gave her THREE children. He went to work every morning and was home with his family every night. He dedicated his life to this cunt. What he did was admirable.
Just because the ex's behavior is common and reproducible doesn't mean it isn't wrong. We don't give out the /r/PussyPass on bad behavior - just because they are girls. They know leaving a loyal, hard working husband and father for someone you want to have fuck you in the ass is selfish and wrong.
They do it quite simply because they can get away with it. When it comes to blame, they are like slippery eels. Not here though. This is a place where they get correctly called out for the bullshit they do.
OP has learned a harsh lesson. No more Pollyanna idealisms when it comes to romance and companionship. OP will always now seek the underlying truth of things and make sage decisions. OP will focus on self improvement and proper self valuation. OP won't take any shit from anymore hypergamous narcissists and learn to properly apply dread game when necessary. OP will next any and all unworthy bitches - making proper use of the pump and dump methodology.
OP won't ever get married again. He already has 3 kids. WTF would the point of ever getting married again be for?
She has acted out her hypergamy. I am not giving her a pussypass.
I did not say she's not responsible or that she doesn't have agency.
What I am saying is: OP has failed his kids.
While that phrase made me laugh, and I'm sure the temptation was there, it sounds like you handled it beautifully.
Can't wait for the inevitable "so I'm living under a bridge now since I can't afford to make rent due to my alimony payments yet I'm the real alpha" post.
Read his posts. He. DOESN'T. HAVE. TO. PAY. ALIMONY.
Now I'm waiting for a TRP post titled "Just met my girlfriend's Ex at a soccer game, couldn't even stand up to me, Alpha Fucks Beta Bux. Now I'm raising his kids as my own"
that would be a bad post brother
What's more alpha than taking another man's kids from him?
probably man'ing up and providing for them for 18+ years...oh wait
Having fathered them yourself.
If he's uber alpha, i'm sure he can do a lot better than a 40 year old woman. Why is he with her i wonder
Why are you all assuming that she's not attractive? There "are" attractive 40 year olds out there.
I never said she wasn't attractive, but women's peak aren't when they're 40. If he is a really good looking alpha, even in his 30s or 40s, he can get women younger than him
She might be celebrity good looking, there are extremely attractive women in their 40s who, though past their peak, are better than many their junior. They are rare though.
No. Definitely not. He's not a looker, either... but a very big, strong dude.
Do you want the red pill biker gang to go beat him up for you?
Thank you so much for the inspiration. I'm in the late stages of battling the exact same scenario, except in my case the 'other man' is married and wants nothing to do with my wife. I'm trying to work through it with her, but everyday it becomes more clear that it's futile.
The red pill is lodged in my throat. I'm trying to get it down, but fuck, it is bitter.
The odds are you are fucked. Verrrry high. Althol Kay of MMSL will tell you this. If she comes back, you will always know that it was most likely because the other guy didn't want her, not that she wants you more than the other guy. Hide assets, consult w/ all the top divorce attorneys in your area so that she can't hire them, and plan your freedom.
Letting out some words makes it always feel a lot better. You're strong and alphaness is not a measure of how much dick or muscle there is under the skin. But how much care there is for children. You are the dude man.
I've never understood the "no bitch is worth fighting over" mentality eschewed here...if I was in a marriage with someone for multiple years and had kids, then they fucked someone else and left, both people are going in the ground, even if I have to wait a couple of years to get away with it clean...especially if there are support payments involved.
Ya know... I said that. Everyone I know says that... but then when it happens, ya don't. You look at your kids and weigh the pros/cons. Eventually you look at your ex and their partner as pathetic, sad people. As long as they don't harm my children in any way, let them do and think what they want. I'm way better off without them and have improved immensely in every way.
Sure hope this makes you feel better about the fact that this dude is drilling the mother of your children up the shitpipe.
He's the beta, alright.
got any pics of those pecs? no homo
Yo I like the way your shoulders fill out that shirt. No homo
Your courage is admirable and with TRP you are the hero in all this.
the prodigal son has returned! Good job OP!
Good for you dude. Moments like this is when you realize how you had it in you all along.
You are completely in control of the situation, that's what makes you really alpha (say leader, or whatever alpha means to people).
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Not the new guy's fault that OPs wife is a slut.
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THREE vaginal births. Three.
What the fuck is this garbage? I expect this sort of rationalization and hamstering to get called out in this sub, not supported.
You went over and shook the hand of the guy that cuckolded you and now has your kids and ex-wife a good chunk of the time? DA FUQ? And this somehow makes you the fucking big man and him the fucking loser?
Man. I can't imagine the level of willpower it takes to eat that big of a shit sandwich and somehow decide that you're the one who walked away having consumed a meal of filet mignon.
Hehe... I get your point. Let's review, shall we?
I shoulda kissed the guy on the lips.
You did the right thing. Don't listen to these fools. The ones giving you shit are the same kind of guys your ex stepped out on you for.
So you're shagging an asian now?
You are looking at end-results in order to rationalize your decision-making and status. That's an irrelevant and fallacious line of thinking.
Because clearly we shouldn't judge decisions based on their consequences - that's fag talk!
Yep. Its truly pathetic. There is nothing red pill about this thread or the majority of posts in it. It's a feel good circle jerk of hamstering for a cuckold who submitted like a dog to the man fucking the mother of his children up the ass. The only thing red pill thing about this is perhaps his understanding of frame and how he was able to reframe the whole situation (at least in the minds of clueless betas) so that he somehow wins. we're supposed to be helping people by telling the truth, not bullshit lies to make them feel better about themselves.
Imagine the other bloke. "haha babe, your ex shook my hand today, i think he was trying to act tough or something, one of the weirdest things i've seen. i think he finally accepts that you need a real man who can give you a real fucking. fucking pussy haha. Now get on your knees and suck my cock you little slut, then im gunna fuck your ass again".
yep op. you're the alpha.
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You cannot award OP a point because you are not an Endorsed Contributor or your point score is below 5.
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He's like most of the cucks I know, a soft beta. Cuckyraven.
Actually, no. He made out fairly well in terms of the divorce and his future prospects. His star is rising out of this and hers is falling. This is the current situation. You must not have read his original posts.
Raven is redpill. You can learn from his story.
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Actually, I think he did the right thing by initiating contact. It shows he's not afraid and is outgoing, pluse the other guy had to respond. No, I think it was a good move.
He also modeled for his children how to step up in an uncomfortable situation and show some class.
I don't understand why you would shake his hand? Just about the most pathetic thing you could do.
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yeah I have to agree sort of, I mean he's gonna be yolked to that guy as long as he is around his kids, I'm not a dad, but I'm going to want to know everybody that spends time around my kids
Concur. The other man knows his dishonor. The handshake confirms it. Frame and amused mastery.
A man who takes a beating and just accepts it. Sounds like a women's version of a man to me. Clearly honor is a concept lost on you people.
Kind of like when someone yells at you, the most pussy thing to do is ignore them. Gotta yell back! Because countersignalling isn't a thing. Hell it's not even a word.
Why is it pathetic?
Shaking the hand of the man fucking your wife. How is it not pathetic?
If he started a fight, or did something rash, would that show mastery of himself, and social situations?
No, it definitely would not.
The OP isn't claiming to have been all that early on, but realizes that, in spite of everything, he has come out way better in these trades.
Fundamentally, there is a question at hand:
Is it more TRP to take as your lover a 40 year divorcee with kids, or to a young, beautiful woman?
"Is it more TRP to take as your lover a 40 year divorcee with kids, or to a young, beautiful woman?"
It's more TRP not to have some other cunt fuck your wife, and if said cunt is fucking your wife its more TRP to not shake his hand in acceptance. OP has rationalized a win out of this obviously massive loss. He has tried to tell himself he got the better end of the deal. That is complete bullshit. Again, this man is fucking his wife.
I never even insinuated starting a fight, what exactly would that achieve? fighting is for defending yourself against morons. if your wife is getting drilled by some other mans cock the situation is a whole lot more serious that a fight.
The most pathetic thing you could do is physically confront the man, as you seem to want to do.
Why?
The kids and the rest of the community would be embarrassed (your kids especially) by your violence.
If we dealt our enemies with force, there would be far more lawsuits between rival companies.
no i don't want him to physically confront the man, although if it was me i'd kill him and the wife but i'm prone to violence. But the idea that he shook this mans hand, who fucked and is fucking his wife, the mother of his children, makes me sick.
how far men have fallen that this behavior is praised as a good thing.
na dude, you're the beta. he's fucking your wife!! hes not married to your wife, hes just smashing her guts and you're probably giving away half your shit.
Shit happens. No use crying over spilt milk.
Holding your head high and handling it like a man puts him on the road to alpha.
Shit like this wakes a man up.
Heh. My brother had a similar thing happen. his Ex was the the worst human being i've ever met and preferred to fuck some black weed dealer who was ten years older than her than raise her kids.
Brother shook his hand and said "i just wanted to thank you for all you've done for me." right in front of her, got in his car and drove off.