I went out with this girl last night and ended up closing, but before we had sex she said something like, “honestly I’m not judging at all, I’m just curious, how often do you sleep with girls on the first date? Not that I’m opposed, but I never sleep with guys on the first date. What’s your secret?”
I just laughed and started kissing her. But it made me realize - I feel like my percentage of closing on first dates is pretty high. I’d say probably 75% of my first dates end in sex. I don't know what the average is, but I have a feeling that's a solid percentage. I'm not working today, so I figured I'd put together a little guide on what I think makes me successful.
For starters, yes, you need to lift. You don't need to be huge, but you need to be in shape. In fact, I think guys can get to a point where they're too big, and it looks like you spend way too much time in the gym. You don't need to be a gorilla. I'm about 5'9", 175lbs and hover around 10% body fat. Always get comments on how nice my body is. Bottom line, being in good shape makes a huge difference in terms of turning you into a guy they will break "the rules" for. And just generally speaking, you need to be doing everything else you can to maximize your value.
So back to the first date guide. This isn't earth shattering advice, but just a collection of things I've learned and implemented along the way. I think the most important thing to getting laid on the first date is kino. When you first meet each other at the bar, make that initial hug as sensual as possible. Hold it a bit longer than you might normally feel inclined. And really embrace the physical contact. Be as present as possible during that moment. Don't worry about what you're going to say once you sit down. Focus on the hug and feeling into that embrace.
Then about 15 mins into the date, touch some piece of jewelry on her hand/wrist and comment on it. Starting with the hands/wrists is best. Eventually you can start hitting/pushing her leg when she says something funny. Work your way up to putting your hand on her leg. You can also pinch her jeans and stretch them as she's talking. I don't know why I do this, but it feels natural and playful. The more you practice kino, the more natural it will become.
Eventually she’ll start reciprocating. If she doesn’t, I'll often grab her hand and examine it. Maybe comment on her nails with a backhanded compliment - "your nails look nice, do you ever get them done at a salon?" Meanwhile, she obviously went to a salon, but it's a nice way of simultaneously complimenting her while making her feel self-conscious. She'll think "wait do my nails really not look like I got them done at a salon?" But don't give her time to analyze. Take her hand and put it on your leg. Eventually remove your hand from on top of hers. If she holds her hand on your leg (she probably will) then you know she’s down, or if she immediately takes it away, then you know you still have some work to do.
The other thing I try to do is work in three phases. Step 1: attract - so tease her and display higher value. Step 2: transition to building comfort - so find common interests and talk about them intelligently. Step 3: finally seduce - so find a way to get to a location where sex is possible and escalate from there.
One note about the first two phases is the importance of eye contact. Eye contact is excellent for building sexual tension. Multiple times during the date I’ll try to make direct eye contact while thinking to myself “damn I want to fuck you so badly right now.” I think those thoughts basically get transferred into her brain telepathically or some shit. I don’t know if there’s any science supporting telepathy, but I think it’s definitely real. You can communicate your desires without saying anything. And that's the best way to do it.
Also body language is key. So when she’s blabbing on about some boring work drama, I’ll turn my body away from her and pay more attention to the bartender or other patrons. Kinda zoning out and not paying close attention to her. This makes her chase your validation. At this point, I'll either change the subject or she will, and once that happens I’ll turn back towards her and become engaged once again. This helps set the frame that she’s chasing your validation, not the other way around.
Another trick I'll employ when things are going well is what I'd call the silence game. At some point, while she's talking or when there's a lull in the conversation, I'll decide to just stop talking entirely. I'll make eye contact with her and smirk without saying anything. Girls can't stand silence like that, so odds are she'll reflexively start blabbing about something. Keep smirking and keep making eye contact. Just let her go. This gets funnier and funnier the more she squirms. Eventually she'll be like, "whatttt? what are you thinking aboutttt?" Then you can start laughing and say something like "I have a feeling you'd keep talking forever if I didn't say anything."
At this point she'll laugh and say "omg you're such an asshole," and then you can go right back to building rapport. I think this works because it once again sets the frame that you're not trying to impress her. You've already built attraction. And you can just sit there comfortably in silence like an autistic monkey while she does all the work of trying to impress you. She'll wonder if all the shit she was just babbling about was stupid, so maybe that's why you did that. But you never said anything to make her feel self-conscious, so she won't put the blame on you.
Anyway, now you've been there for a couple hours. At some point before we’re getting ready to leave, I’ll go to the bathroom, and when I get back, I’ll put my arm around her before I sit down again. This takes the kino up another notch. Then you’ll get the check. I don't know about you guys, but I usually just take my time getting my wallet out, and 90% of the time they get their card out too, without me having to say anything. I always split first dates (unless it's just one drink each, then I'll pay). But splitting first dates sets the tone that you're not the guy she's going to get free dinners out of. You're the guy she's going to fuck, and she'll need to find another chump for the free dinners.
The other important thing I’d suggest is going for the kiss when you walk out of the bar and you're heading towards your cars/Uber. Just walk in front of her, stop and face her, and she'll know exactly what you're doing. Kiss her but make sure you pull back first. This isn’t supposed to be hot and heavy. This is just a quick primer. It shows her you’re not all talk, it confirms you're sexual, and now she wants to experience more of what you’re offering. I think this quick kiss before heading to the sex location primes her for sex as a possibility once you get there.
Once you get to the sex location, take your time. Let her adjust and start to feel comfortable. Make a drink. Ask for a tour of her place or give her a tour of yours. Put something stupid on tv that you don’t have to pay attention to. Start making out. Disengage on your own. Start talking again. Do this song and dance a couple times where you start and stop again. A lot of times she’ll do the stopping. No worries. Laugh, pull back and start talking again. Go through this cycle enough times, each time progressing a little further and getting a little more into it. Eventually she’ll be ready to get down.
My move to transition to the end goal is usually to just pick her up and start walking towards the bed. She might say something like “where are we going” to which you can reply “it’s a surprise.” But you both know. Give her a solid dicking. Harder and faster than you might normally because you want to differentiate yourself from just any old dick. Cuddle a little bit after, but don't spend too much time cuddling. You do this all the time so you're not desperate for a woman's touch. Eventually say "it's getting late, I'm sure you have a bunch of stuff to do tomorrow," and then start gathering your clothes and getting ready to say goodbye.
Before you leave, kiss her one more time and say "I had a great time tonight, text me if you want to hang out again." If you did it right, they always do. And now they're chasing you.
That awkward silence is golden. You are 100% correct in letting them break the silence and keep talking. That's called seeking rapport/comfort. If they don't break the silence, then it's a good sign they're just not that interested in you (yet).
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Honestly I never knew what to do with women before TRP. I fell for blue pill conditioning pretty hard. I could get girls here and there just by being decent looking, playing sports, being smart, etc, but it was usually only girls that were pursuing me. And those girls were usually below my standards.
I was afraid of embracing my sexuality. I was scared of rejection and “me too” type accusations. TRP helped me realize how important embracing your masculinity is. You’re a horny dude and you want to fuck. And you’re going to act on that to make it happen. That’s what girls want. They want someone who will take charge and make it happen. Always remember that.
That's where that quiet gross desperation of the "nice guy" comes from. Unable to face the fact OR do anything about it
It's a very good writeup - the silence and cheeky smile trick is fantastic one, akin to the negotiation hack "he who breaks the silence, loses". But how do you proactively defend yourself from potentially being "me too"ed? Surely there's some offensive defense you've worked out?
That's why you need to make sure she's reciprocating your kino. She needs to be sending you IOIs in order for you to feel comfortable when you finally make your move. I've never been turned down going for a kiss after a date because I'll make sure she's sending me enough green light signals first.
This is a game after all. Think of it like a nature documentary where two birds do some sort of dancing and call/response routine before they procreate. The male bird will show off his feathers, and the female will start chirping or something if she's impressed with what she sees.
That's basically what you're doing with a woman. She needs to assess whether or not she wants to fuck you, and you need to decipher whether or not she's signaling that she does. And if you're getting the right signals from her, then you have to take action, otherwise her attraction will fade.
Yep - 1000% agree that reciprocity is absolutely essential. Being able to properly identify IOIs and step up the kino appropriately is massive.
However - it's entirely possible that she will be reciprocating wholeheartedly, even escalating herself in the moment, but then after you've had sex (the next day, the next year, then next decade) she feels bad, guilty for whatever reason, or there's the potential she'll face consequences and decides to throw you under the bus because who's going to belief the guy over her?
I fucking hate unaccounted for risks - and this strikes me as a risk to be mitigated or avoided. So do you for example never fuck married chicks, usually go to their place, etc. etc. I'm asking this sort of unrelated question because you seem to have some good insights, maybe you've got some here? Cheers
Yeah I don’t really worry about that dude. Just don’t do anything that would give them reason to do that. Don’t be a dick for no reason. And one important principle to follow is discretion. Chicks hate when word gets out and everyone knows they fucked a guy. So keep your escapades to yourself, or only tell your close friends, but remind them discretion is key, since you don’t want to blow up her spot and subject her to slut shaming.
Extremely important tip. This is why you are better off pursuing chicks from outside your friend group since this way they are way more likely to even consider fucking you. Unless she sees you as a total alpha male there's very little chance you'll tap that and (in her eyes) have the chance to let the word spread. It's a reputation killer for a woman.
Why would going to their place be a question of concern?
I meant that going to her place would be preferable, especially on the first date/lay like OPs post was addressing. At least until you've gotten to know her better and judged that she's not crazy enough to cause you trouble down the line. I'm just very focused on risk mitigation and evaluation
Would you consider neutral response as positive? For example, she's not clearly reciprocating your moves but is not rejecting either.
I've been in a couple of situations where I'd get neutral response and had to do all kino work but eventually it led up to sex, so at the end of the day I got what I wanted, but still.
Yeah I mean neutral is ok. But I try to keep pushing until I get her to reciprocate. I think it gets her more excited and turned on when she thinks she’s actively participating. That’s what that putting her hand on my leg move stems from. Sometimes they’re just too scared or nervous to reciprocate, so you need to lead them into feeling comfortable doing it.
So you were chased by girls before TRP? Not surprising that you have big success now.
Not really chased. But I played sports and hung out with the dudes who got all the girls, so I’d occasionally get the “so and so thinks you’re cute.” But so and so would often be kinda fat and below my standards. I mean I definitely could’ve had it worse, but it wasn’t great by any stretch either.
It's good you had enough self-awarness to realise the fact you are good looking and a "good guy" are not enough to get the girl, so to speak. I used to be in the exact same spot.
I’m fairly new to red pill although I’ve been subscribed to the sub for a while now. I read posts here and there, but I feel like I’m missing something and I don’t know what to read or where to begin. I have not read the sidebar yet, but I just wanted to know if the sidebar is everything I should read or if there is more to redpill.
Read the sidebar here and the sidebar on asktrp. I'd also recommend a few books. Start with the Book of Pook. Also, No More Mr. Nice Guy is decent depending on what your starting point is. And then The Rational Male is great breakdown of everything, but it's a little more advanced than the other two books. I'd also recommend Way of the Superior Man once you start getting into relationships with women -- it's not a perfect book, but it does a good job of teaching you how to manage women in relationships as long as you don't forget to rely on your other TRP knowledge.
One thing I took away from that last book is never trying to change her emotional state with logic. Instead, change it by making her *feel* something different. She's stressed about something that happened at work and she's venting -- don't try to explain what she should do, but embrace her and start dancing or something instead. Problem solved. She got to vent, you didn't really have to listen, and now she feels happy/comfortable because you weren't phased by her problems, you showed her they're insignificant, and you'll always be there as her escape from her own emotional turmoil.
Thank you so much for this response, I honestly wasn’t even expecting a reply.
I like to add that this post is (probably unintentionally) a very good summary of the book Bang written by RooshV. I guess you don't even have to read the book anymore if you read this post. But the book has some really funny comments you could use when you're dating, that could be a reason to still buy the book.
also, not to be "homophobic" or whatever, but don't be a faggot.
spent 4 days in SF with my gf recently and i swear to god if the guys aren't gay then they're feminine as fuck. either or. no in between. I am not a 10/10 stud by any means but i am masculine. I talk like a man and I have masculine mannerisms.
I have never gotten so many unwanted IOI's from random beautiful women in my life. If I ever break up with my gf I am definitely suggesting a guys trip out there. I can just sense that these girls are desperate for someone who wears old spice proudly and might even lift at least one weight every other week or so.
This is true, I went there 3 years ago on business, before I really understood RP (beyond instinct) and hooked up with two women in a week, which was unprecedented for me. Only after RP did I realize what happened.
You are unfortunately right. Show half a thick skin and you'll be fighting the uggos off in a cosmopolitan area. The occasional hottie is where you have to strike.
P. S. Every gay dude I know laughs about the word fag as long as you're using it in earnest, don't worry.
One of the eye openers of TRP is that women do notice masculine men and they put themselves in the situation where you can open the interaction.
Perhaps she asks directions or crosses your path or more likely just enters your vicinity.
They rarely initiate the way shy bloops need. They just appear and silently beg to be swept off their feet by a bad ass
Next time this happens just ask her if she is having fun. Or likes the coffee here. Or wants to feel your muscle. They entered your world and frame for a reason. Everything women do has a reason
Very true. They also give you that stare. I really like it.
So simple, I like it
I get a lot to man. It's crazy. It really does depend on how Alpha you are though. Girls aren't really attracted to looks like we are. If you're able to hit all there sub communication switches then you're pretty much a 10. I develeped hella masculine traits through Game. It's all about how you stand, sit, talk, eye-contact ect.
yup 100%. i was going through a slump a few years ago and at one point i was watching a video that i was in like on someone's vacation video or some shit. i'm looking at myself like wtf why am i slouching like that? So right then and there i went to the mirror and adjusted my posture, and it felt really good on my back, physically. So i started walking differently at that point. Man just that one fucking change did wonders for my social life. Got more looks, confidence improved, which forced me into more social interactions whether I wanted them or not, then became more confident, got more looks, cycle kept going. it's so easy when you think about it. but you have to be able to look at yourself and realize you're being a fuckin pussy, admit you have to improve, and then actually be willing to improve and do it.
I don't really sit up straight. I lean back and take up space. Just be hella relaxed.
Body language is the fucking master trick.
It really is that simple. Walk tall!
What are some examples of sub communication switches that need to be hit, and how would you go around hitting them?
Slow, deliberate movements. Strong eye contact. Confident, domineering voice.
I'm by no means an expert, but what I noticed, if we are talking about parties and other social situations, know when not to give eye contact and just let her stare at you. Make her fight for your attention.
Important Edit: Forgot to add it only applies if you are AMOG at the time, if you are not then what the fuck are you doing
Very true, I lived in SF for 3 years and it is hard to distinguish gay men from the straight ones. It seems like the straight ones have over the years switched their "game" up to imitate a women in order to befriend one and then linger in the hopes of getting something out of it.
You would be surprised even the most feminist, masculine hating women will be defenseless if you stand your ground when it comes to discussing beliefs or even just saying ridiculous things as I like to do. They are never met with any resistance from the men that live in SF so the slightest bit of masculinity is secretly appreciated.
Bro... this is what you should tell that fag with the orange beard from RSD. He thinks he’s picking up women by talking in that high voice and acting like a fucking clown but really they are comfortable talking to him because he comes off as the gay best friend that girls like talking to.
His game is solid though - he gets results. It doesnt mean you have to emulate it, I sure as hell dont.
Results as in talking to people? Yeah sure. But it is deceptive because the people that are looking to him for information are wanting to know how to pick up women not just talk to them. So while it may seem as though he is sleeping with all of these women, he is just having friendly conversations with them as if that of a gay best friend counterpart
have you ever seen him out in WeHo? I have seen him a few times, he is out constantly, and pulls hot ass women - and he is even shorter in person than you would think lol. His game is unquestionable. Again it doesnt mean you have to emulate it.
When you say “pull” hot women, what does that mean exactly to you? Because where I’m from pull means to take a woman home and fuck her. Not make out at the bars not get a number but to actually have sex. You can tell by his interactions on his videos that these women are befriending him. They aren’t touching him or groping him. He is the one initiating all the contact. So I’m just wondering what your exact definition is
yes that is what Pull means - no I have never seen him in person have intercourse, I have seen him make out and leave the bar with hot women - yes they were touching him, I am assuming they have premarital intercourse.
Duly noted, will go to SF and take my red pill ways there in the future.
City of sixes.
The women there tend to be solidly average, it's a tech city and the men are thirsty.
Lol did you go to the Marina? It’s like watching monkeys in a zoo: all the bars are filled with some women and a bunch of dudes trying to get them.
And thAts the only neighborhood where you find a modicum of masculine men
Haha! Not in SF but this happened to me today. I had my 2 year old and we playing in the middle of this promenade waiting for my SO buying shit in a jewellery shop. These two girls barely in college came out of said shop and started putting on some earrings on the cuter of the two.
My 2 year old was entranced, stopped playing and just started watching them so I said "I think she likes your earrings." The both giggled and laughed but the cuter one out of nowhere starts eye fucking the shit out of me. Honestly I had one of my little FuckTrophiesTM standing right there in front of her and this poor little thing just couldn't help herself! Honestly I was almost tempted to go into dad mode haha!Now I'm not the biggest dude anymore but I've got arms that don't hide and an upper body that won't quit and I swear it's like crack to these girls!
These two just giggled something like see ya and I just said bye guys in reply but damn; it's a good feeling to know I probably had 10 years on these two and I still got it. Shit if I ever get tired of the current I'll be looking forward to getting back into the game.
Edit: OP FUCKS. I felt old reading shit I forgot I used to do haha!
I'm currently in sf and I'd say that you can kill it out here if you're 6'+ tall and white. Being a minority, you definitely need to lift and work on game. Also, women want what they can't have, that's usually the reason for IOIs when you're with your SO as discussed in other threads. I've noticed this on numerous occasions when out with plates.
Impressive write up. I use several of these tactics myself and they do work. A lot of this stuff is intuitive; you can't be autistic about it. Demonstrate your own competence, tease her, kino, and treat her like she's a stupid awkward little girl. That's all there is to it imo.
I am autistic. 😐
Silence comes naturally to me, but I can't pull the rest off.
Honestly, if you’re actually autistic, you should be able to integrate the mostly rules-based systems of TRP pretty easily. Autistic guys can be taught to think of social structures like an engineering problem. If you’re just inept and using autism as an excuse, on the other hand, go figure.
Asperger's.
I can easily execute most of these, but I need openers and more focus on eye contact. Eye contact is painful, but I am making effort to make more and more friends. The rest feels very easy.
I fucked up with that silence I think. Literally stood there for a minute of two in silence looking in a different direction...
OMFG I have also done this.
I fucked up with that silence I think. Literally stood there for a minute of two in silence looking in a different direction...
Haha yeah can't do that. Should also add that you have to be comfortable with the silence. If it makes you uncomfortable, then she'll think maybe you're just awkward. But if you've been charismatic up to that point, and it doesn't make you uncomfortable, then she'll think you're just super calm and relaxed and not trying too hard.
Well as I have these autistic moments it did not feel awkward per se, just that it was a bit more silent than I expected 😂 I should also add that I know her already and was actually doing an exercise at the gym (saw her again after two years) with her. We were standing and looking around. Of course it shouldn’t have been silent at that moment but it’s not as if I met her randomly, said hi and then awkward silence for two minutes. We were talking most of the time and then that gap of silence happened. After that we continued talking.
She also got my number so she could have “a gym buddy” but I haven’t heard from her eversince and haven’t seen her as well.
Maybe I should hit her up if she’s going again anytime soon 🤔
Sorry if this story doesn’t add up, I’m at work taking a shit and writing this quickly.
Finally some good fucking content
This is gold. Definitely incorporating a few of these things. That silence game seems money.
Smooth as fuck, lots of very practical and concrete tips in this post which you very rarely find. Doing God's work OP.
I think it's pretty cool that you are able to introspect on your dates and pick out the really meaningful moments. I will say that a lot of the things you advocate here really need to come naturally. Someone with a notebook list of these, trying to force them will not have the same results.
One other thing is that I don't think most women really need that much convincing. Women pre-select for a lot of categories, and if you fit enough, they will want to sleep with you. At that point, you just need to not fuck it up.
I went through a ONS phase about a year ago and slept with about 20 women in two months. I asked all of them when they knew they wanted to sleep with me and by far the most popular response was "As soon as I saw you", second being "when you started talking". I didn't "charm" my way into any of these women's pants. I'm tall, fit, dress well, look and smell good. I offered them a physical specimen they were very interested in and just didn't give them any reason to not want to sleep with me. Just something to consider.
Yeah this is great too. I think this is great advice, but for someone who’s more, let’s say, “naturally alpha”. I think this could honestly be a direct correlation to how much testosterone you have. High testosterone leads to a lot of qualities women find attractive, and there’s probably some pheromone-type shit going on too. Or they can just sense it or something. But for whatever reason, it makes you simply attractive to the female hindbrain, so all you have to do is not fuck it up.
I don’t think I fit that mold though. I need to charm a little bit. For this reason, I do much better on dates or via day game in comparison to night game. I suck at night game. I think those natural alpha/high testosterone qualities matter more in that environment. There’s less talking, more alcohol, less room for conversational stimulation and it’s more dependent on things like body language, physical appearance, etc. Personally, I hardly ever get one night stands from night game. So that’s what I’m practicing and learning about now.
My guess is you’re someone who does pretty well with night game? I bet you’re what girls would think of as more naturally alpha. Possibly even taller with masculine features. That’s why I think your style works for you if I had to guess.
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Even with all of that. It’s still nice to have trp
Easy mode, sure, but only with 7.5's and below.
Even if your SMV is very high, TRP helps a ton with 8's and up. With a high visual SMV you can smash 7's all day.
Consistantly closing 9's and 10's usually takes everything you mentioned, TRP concepts and focused effort towards putting yourself in situations where there are single high SMV women available.
Sounds like u/csajhr knows enough red pill naturally or otherwise to download tutorial mode:
20 women in 2 months? Does your dick still work?
Can you write a guide on how to find a good Christian woman who will stay home and raise my children while I retake Jerusalem? Thanks!
Oh I have good advice for that : go to church, involve yourself in the local Christian community, you'll get to meet a bunch of girls.
Then you approach their parents, talk to them, befriend them. The girls will fall into your lap so easily it's like cheating.
To make sure she isn't led astray while you retake Jerusalem, I suggest getting her pregnant before you leave for the crusades, that will keep her busy.
Good stuff. To add, practice makes perfect
Yup. When I look back on how I acted on dates a year ago when I first found TRP, I realize so much has changed. I’m much more efficient now. Dating is like any other skill, practice is essential.
For example, I used to spend way too much time talking about myself. My write up wasn’t totally comprehensive — mystery is another important key I left out.
Avoid personal questions you don’t want to answer. Reveal just bits and pieces about yourself. Keep your responses short and flip the conversation back on her when she starts digging. Again, you’re not trying to sell yourself.
The only times I’ll get really talkative are when I’m talking about a concept / idea that interests me or when I’m telling a story. The mentality for not overselling yourself and pitching your backstory can be broken down into a couple factors:
First off, you know you’re the man, and you know she thinks you’re awesome, so there’s no need to overtly communicate that. And secondly, you do this all the time, and it gets tiresome telling people about yourself.
If you go on enough dates, I think mystery is one of those things you’ll intuitively start incorporating. But until then, be conscious about trying to be mysterious.
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Shoe lifts, no thanks. The fact you care that much is probably a bad sign. You’re average height dude. Yeah it’d be great to be a little taller, but you’re not. Can’t do anything about it. Except become above average in a different area to offset not being above average in height. That said, I will wear boots if it makes sense weather wise. Adds another inch or so.
Voice is an interesting one. I think it helps. I naturally speak from my chest/throat. But I took this public speaking class in college. One of the things it did was thought you how to speak from your diaphragm. Doing this makes your voice sound much louder, calmer, deeper, more confident, etc. I’d look into exercises for learning how to speak from your diaphragm. I’ll often do my warm up routine from that class on my way to dates.
As for clothes, get stuff that fits well. Personally, I hate logos. I think they make you look basic. So I’d say try to find some discrete brands that fit you well. I wear a lot of tight stuff to show off my physique. Not obnoxiously tight, but like a long sleeve shirt that reveals you have clearly defined shoulders. I never wear button downs anymore. Style is individual, but I like to keep it simple. T-shirts or long sleeve shirts that fit. I wear pretty tight pants too. But they stretch so they’re not uncomfortable. I’d tell you some brands I wear, but I like those brands being under the radar, and I’d like to keep it that way.
Other than that, one thing that’s helped me a lot is meditation. Check out Sam Harris’s meditation app. It’s useful for dating in the sense that it enables you to be much more aware of everything that’s going on. For example, maybe you’re slouching, and from meditation you can learn to catch it quicker and readjust your posture. Or maybe you’re nervous/anxious, and from meditation you can catch yourself feeling this way, then take a few deep breaths and return to a more relaxed state.
I don’t know if you know anything about Jungian cognitive functions, but my dominant cognitive process is introverted thinking and my auxiliary function is extraverted intuition. Introverted thinking means I’m constantly analyzing the logic of everything and recognizing patterns. And my extraverted intuition means I’m open minded and always examining new ideas and possibilities and trying to fit them into my existing framework of understanding. This cognitive stack has helped me refine my approach to dating (and personal growth in general) because I’m always testing to see what works and what doesn’t, then I’m constantly refining my approach as I get more knowledge/data. Plus I’m not too close minded to test out new things either.
Learning about my cognitive function stack has been very helpful for me. It can help show you what your strengths and weaknesses are. For example, my inferior function is extraverted feeling. This relates to my desire for connection with other people and my ability to read other peoples emotions. Because it’s my inferior function, I’m not naturally inclined to utilize it. So I’ve had to work on strengthening this cognitive process in order to be more balanced and more social. I used to hate small talk and talking to new people, but over time I’ve learned appreciate these things more as I continue developing my extraverted feeling function.
+1 for being a slayer whilst also being TiNe.
Wasn’t easy. Basically became my side obsession for a year. Think of it as trying to solve a problem. Trying to figure how women work, analyzing their behavior patterns, attraction switches, etc.
Also had to keep putting myself in social situations and forcing conversations in order to get comfortable bullshitting with people and making small talk. Used to hate that. Was always witty and funny but hated bullshit fake conversations with randos. But it’s just like most things, the more you practice it, the more comfortable you’ll feel and the better you’ll get.
TiNe has its benefits if you play to your strengths. We’re problem solvers. It’s what we like to do. In this case, women were the problem, and I needed to figure out how to solve it. Finally just now getting to the point where I feel like I’ve solved that problem. Which means I’ll be getting obsessed with something else soon lol.
Not the op but honestly if you get the date it doesnt matter what you wear or what you do. You just have to be comfortable in your own skin. That is the most important thing. I went on a date with a girl and she blew me in my car and i got pussy juice on my shorts. Then i went on another date with the same shorts and made out with the girl.
Your insecurities can be your biggest strength if you believe in them.
This post is really good. Thanks for taking the time to write your experiences into real life applicable content. We appreciate it dudes
You left out the first half of your 'Step 3: finally seduce - so find a way to get to a location where sex is possible and escalate from there. ' I'd like to hear the part about you suggesting to go to your place or her place while coming up with a plausible deniability bullshit excuse. It has always been a stumbling block for me, especially on the first date.
Oh dude great question. Def left that part out. It’s not really a problem for me anymore. I do a few things:
First I’ll schedule the date kinda early. So like 730 instead of 9. So after two hours it’s still kinda early and neither of you wants to go to bed yet. That helps.
Secondly, I’ll set some expectations during the date. I’ll essentially tell her my place off limits. I’ll use a couple different excuses, but I basically frame it as your place or no place, take it or leave it. If her place is actually off limits, then I’ll have to start thinking of ways to get creative because I don’t have the right living situation to bring girls to mine right now.
I’ll also ask a few questions during the date that help me plan my seduction strategy. So I’ll ask her things like how she got here, who does she live with, etc. So for example, if I know she took an Uber, when we’re getting ready to leave, I’ll tell her I’ll drive her back. She’ll give a little push back, “oh no you don’t have to,” but she’s just being polite. Say “it’s cool, I’m not going to bed yet anyway.”
When you get to her place, there’s a few options. If you know she’s feeling it, once you pull up to her place, you can just say “you wanna keep hanging out?” And she’ll invite you in for a drink or something. If you’re unsure, you can used the tried and true method of “do you mind if I use your bathroom?” They always let you in. Go take a piss. Pretend if you have to lol.
Then she’ll ask if you want a drink or water or something. Say yeah and give her a little space. Play with her pets if she has any. Look around a bit. Maybe ask for the tour. Then you can start hooking up.
If she drove herself, I’ll bring it up once we leave the bar and go outside. I’ll say something like “it’s pretty early, you wanna keep hanging out?” Or maybe she mentioned something interesting about her apartment during the date. In that case, I’ll use some variation of “wanna show me [that thing] you were talking about?”
Very rarely do they object to any of these methods if they’re attracted to you.
As a rule nobody comes to my place unless we've been dating a couple months. Otherwise you risk your tires getting slash and pets killed.
If she's adamant her place is off limits, hotels are always a great substitution. And if you really are in a tight pinch, then the back seat of a car.
A great tip I learned years back was always parking at the top of parking garages.
You always have a view of the sky/skyline if the weather is nice, so you have a plausible reason to take her to the car in the first place.
The top level has the least amount of traffic and interruptions.
You can make out and excalate in the stairwells and elevators. More than a few times we never even made it back to the car and banged in either one.
I'll add. One of my go to strategies is to suggest they meet at my place to pre game before heading out. Or I'll say they can meet at my place or I can meet at theirs and we can carpool to x location together. This all depends on how the conversation went leading up to the date.
Now if I get vibes that neither of the above options work as in the girl only has interest in meeting at a neutral location then I'll simply bring up my pets, xbox kinnect or whatever I said earlier during the date. If it's early enough I'll give them my address and say to meet me there so we can do whatever it is we talked about. Depending on the girl and how much she's into me ill say "I think it's time to go back to my place."
On the flip side, if a girl suggest a place close to their place then you pretty much have it in the bag. They are basically telling you that they are open to inviting you to their place as long as you don't screw up.
Hope that helps
I really needed something like that. Just great. Thanks! Would love to read and learn more things from you gamewise
This is one of the best advice posts I've seen. Usually there will be at least a couple of things that are straight up cringey. Nicely done.
Before take wallet it’s better to say “let’s go to pay”
You don’t want to be in situation when you take wallet and she’s watching you and tell her you got to pay
If she doesn’t bring hers out, I’ll say, “so I usually split first dates.” If she asks why, I’ll say something like “I feel like the first date is just two people getting to know each other so...”, or I go funny with, “because I’m a feminist.” That one usually works. Then they’ll pay. And if they refuse, that’s not some chick you wanna be fucking with anyway - clear red flag.
"because im a feminist". excellent.
i'm gonna field test this one myself
I'm stealing that one.
My first dates are usually just a round of drinks or coffee. If it's just 1 round of beers or something I'll usually pick up the tab if I actually like her but if it's anything more than that I split. When I do pick up the tab I usually say "I got this one but you can get me back next time" with a smirk.
A decent amount of women actually offer to split in my experience.
Yup I do pretty much the same thing. And they usually offer to split.
Doesn't it make sense to decide that before the dinner? So she can't use you for free food?
Oh I wouldn’t order food on the first date. I’ll eat a big ass meal beforehand. If she orders food and I don’t (they rarely do), then it’s usually understood she’s paying at least her share.
And once you set the precedent for splitting, she’ll usually keep that going, even if you go out to dinner at a later date. Plus you always have the ability to pay occasionally if you feel inclined. Just say “don’t worry I got this one. You got next”
I was just re-reading the Book of Pook, and your advice striked me as very similar to his post on embracing your sexuality:
Eye contact is so fucking important, it's not even funny.
Yeah I read Book of Pook a year ago. Must read for anyone who hasn’t read it.
I actually completely forgot about that passage. But one thing I do remember him saying was one day you’ll forget about trying to apply his lessons and they’ll become natural to you. In other words, you’ll forget about trying to act attractive and you simply will be — it will become subconscious or even unconscious.
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Yeah I mean I’m definitely in good shape. Eat a pretty clean diet. Pretty low carb. I do better with less gluten. I know I’m below 10% when I can see veins in my lower abs, but I’m not always that lean.
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Dude honestly I think diet and neuromuscular connection (really isolating and utilizing the desired muscle groups) is more important than how much weight you’re actually lifting. It’s all about how well you can tear those targeted muscle fibers.
It’s kind of my own personal lifting philosophy, but there’s def others who advocate this. I think Arnold used to talk about this being his stance too actually. Think about every well-proportioned bodybuilder you’ve ever seen. They all lift with perfect form.
So my advice would be treat lifting in terms of practicing and perfecting form instead of how much weight you can actually lift. Then obviously the heavier you go, while keeping form, will put more stress on your muscles.
Blackdragon advocates for having sex on the second date. Just sharing a different point of view.
This isn’t terrible advice actually. My first dates end up being very long. Definitely in the 5-7 hour range when it’s all said and done. Couple hours at the bar, then a couple hours at your/her place. So I could see this model being beneficial.
But I’m also usually getting with girls in the 23-29 age range, so sex on the first date is much more likely than if I was pursuing older women. Plus once I get a drink in me, I usually like to keep the party going. Having to shut it down after an hour or so would feel like a buzzkill.
That said, this two date model is definitely something worth experimenting with.
Women over 29 will fuck on the first date just as easily if you are worth it. I have never failed. It only gets easier, honestly, as your competition gets sadder and fatter every year.
As she proceeds to sleep with you on the first date. Watch what she does, not what she says. AWALT
The reason I included that is because she said something about not being opposed to it. She was like “yeah if I want to fuck, I want to fuck, I’m not one of those girls. But usually guys either can’t make it happen or don’t even try.”
She’s also bisexual and pretty open about her sexuality. She definitely wasn’t trying to make it seem like she’s normally “a good girl.” So I just took it at face value.
What if she's at your place. Do they stay the night?
Not OP but not usually no. Especially on the first night.
"I have work in the morning I need to get some rest"
"I have a 6am bootcamp tomorrow"
Any dumb excuse to get her out of your place.
Yeah that or something like “well I had fun tonight. It’s getting late though. Come on, I’ll walk you out”
No excuses. And not mean either. Just kinda laying the ground rules. She can sleep over only if you tell her to. I find most girls don’t want a sleepover on the first night anyway.
How do you address the white elephant, "can she sleep over" and do you need to call her an uber?
I feel like my previous response addresses the sleep over question.
The Uber thing I’d say is a case by case basis. If she has a real job with a real salary, she can pay for her own Uber. Most girls I hang out with have careers. But if she doesn’t, then I’ll consider ordering it. You can rationalize it because it gets her out of your place.
Have good looks and big cock. Don't say too much. Pull it out. Gtg. I never did much more than that.
Good stuff dude I will be referring back to this
Lol you don’t need to lift to get laid.
Ofcourse getting jacked will Increase your value but its not a necessity.
This SMV bullshit is getting out of hand these days.
Ok. Then don’t increase your value you lazy asshat.
I'm doing the same thing with eye contact and thinking thoughts I'd like to be transferred to another person. And it works more time than not - magic!
How do you approach splitting the bill? I always feel like it gets akward if i would say lets split the bill
There’s another response thread somewhere in here where I address that.
This is the weather report.
Incoming: shit storm about "being too big".
You can get huge if you’re doing it for yourself. But I think it gets to a point of diminishing returns with women. Most women want someone who’s jacked but not necessarily someone who looks like a bodybuilder. That said, there are some women who are into that if it’s your thing.
not sure if someone already mentioned it, but changing venues on the same date really works, helped me succeed in more than one occasion. TRP theory says it creates the impression that she's been in multiple dates with you already, she wont feel like a slut. Normally I greet her in café or delicatessen place, we have coffee or a shake, then I invite her to a nearby place to eat, from there I invite to a trendy bar for a drink or to my place. Important to have the conversation flow going and keep the iniciative. They normally let me lead to the new place. If they dont, maybe they are not into me anyway or really have other appointments, so I just let go. Rate of success is better than the usual "dinner and try to close" traditional date.
Yeah I’ve read that before. Never really experimented with it. Seems like too much effort for me. But there’s more than one way to skin the cat. If it works for you, then keep at it.
now these are the posts that i want to read
As someone who has had a good amount of success with women and sometimes gets in a rut (like we all do), this is very solid advice and will definitely implement on my next first date. The key is escalate, escalate, escalate. Women want a guy who is sexual and she's not into you, NEXT.
I know that we are in this #metoo era, but it's very rare for a woman to actually go as far as crying rape if you are trying to hook up with her and she's not into it. It is better to take two steps forward and have to take a step back, than to only have taken one stop forward.
Also remember that there isn't a one fits all. One thing I truly believe is that as long as you are a decent looking guy, there is a woman out there who wants to fuck you. I have fucked many women and currently 27, yet I have been rejected by so many women. Rejection is a part of the getting laid/dating scene. Key is finding that woman or in many cases, women who actually find you attractive and who you find attractive. What can be seen as "charming" by some women can be seen by other women as "creepy."
ABUNDANCE MENTALITY is key as well. Don't get hung up on that "unicorn" when there are plenty of women out there.
As someone who's starting out with TRP, this is much appreciated.
I've just started lifting, and from what you've written in your post and comments, it seems like you're in pretty good shape. What routines/workout plans did you follow? For instance, I'm doing the Stronglifts 5X5 workout, but many people have told me to move onto something more advanced as soon as I can (even though this is moderately tough right now lol)
Thanks, and great post!
Yeah honestly I don’t know anything about the stronglifts program. I tailor my program to my own body pretty specifically. I try to work out 6 days a week - two days chest, two days back/shoulders and two days legs. On the leg days, one day I’ll focus on squats/quads/calves and the other day I’ll do deadlifts/hamstrings/calves. Then I’ll try to mix in some core work 2-3 of those days.
Just keep at it dude. Eventually it will get boring or you’ll hit a plateau, and that should signal when you need to change up your routine. I’d also point out that diet matters just as much if not more than your weightlifting program. So spend some time thinking about nutrition if you want to get the best results.
Basic nutrition principles I’d recommend are trying to eat close to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight every day. Stop eating all processed shit. If it comes in a bag or box and it’s a snack, you probably shouldn’t eat it. Real foods only. And make sure you’re eating some healthy fats (nuts, cheese, eggs, salmon, etc). You can experiment with the amount of carbs you’re eating. I like to go low carb, but everyone is a little different.
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Hell yeah bro. That’s why I posted. Glad to hear it went well.
Once you start hearing “I don’t normally do this” and “we’re not having sex tonight” ... you know you’re about to have sex if you play your cards right lol.
Also that whipping the unit out move is bold. For anyone else reading, gotta make sure she’s receptive to your kino and reciprocating before trying that. Don’t wanna see anyone get me too’d.
This is really good insight. I mostly agree with it except not splitting if it's one drink for each. I always split. Anyway, this is minor. If you've established higher value, taken her for a ride on the emotional roller coaster and escalated like a man, you'll be fine.
Most importantly, remember it's a numbers game and even if you do everything "right", sometimes it won't work, and that's fine, as long as you have other options.
My thought process with paying if it’s just one drink is because that usually means the date sucks and I want to get out of there. I’m not trying to maintain frame anymore. I don’t care. And it’s just ~12 bucks. Not even worth dealing with trying to split that.
And if it happens with a plate, I can easily afford it. They are looking for that perfect alpha provider after all. Sometimes it’s nice showing them a signal that you could be that guy. And again it’s just ~12 bucks so not a big deal.
As an INTJ I just cant understand why any self respecting man would ever have sex with a woman
I'll assume INTJ is a type of autism so I'll explain. Pee pee feels good when it goes inside her vee vee hole.
If you want to get laid on the first date the best thing is if she wants to fuck you...
Hell I just made a movie out of gameplay of a video game and showed her that movie. I couldn't finish the movie without her wanting to fuck.
Obviously doesn't matter what you do. She often has decided if she is going to fuck you or not long beforehand.
Too much advice here lately. Man the fuck up and she will want you.
I mean yeah dude. I left out the part about working out all the time, eating healthy, developing interesting hobbies, having stylish clothes, working on my social skills, etc.
You need to do everything you can to be as attractive as possible. This was just supposed to be a guide to how I get women primed to have sex on the first date. They won’t even think about it if you’re not attractive.
The parts you left out matter most though.
I guess I just see more PUA type advice around here instead of talk about improving yourself. May be due to the quarantine. Just don't want to see the quality go downhill.
How many different ways must you be told to lift?
Self confidence is important. I was stupid attractive in hs but practically sexless due to no experience leading to low confidence. After 3 times getting my dick wet (practically by accident) I started hunting and discovered they wanted hunting.
Nothing else changed.
If I had practiced being as smooth as this mother fucker I would have drowned. In pussy. To clarify.
There you go. That matters most.
It's either you do that shit or you don't. That's a completely different post. I'm just trying to show dudes some tips on how to get laid on the first date once they've put in that work.
Meh, it seems more like PUA bullshit than good advice. Would sick to see TRP deteriorate to that kind of stuff.
There’s internal game and external game. TRP tends to focus on internal game, which I agree is more important. But that doesn’t mean you should ignore external game either.
Just because something seems like PUA advice doesn’t mean it’s not applicable. Confidence comes from within, but it’s hard to build confidence if you’re not seeing results. So I think internal and external game should go hand in hand.
Personally, I just went through a couple months of monk mode. Dropped all my plates to focus on getting a new job and improving in other areas. Believe me I know how important that stuff is. And just in the past two weeks I started looking for new plates to spin again.