FR: Losing My Religion

CryptoManbeard · 2019-06-06T17:02:13+00:00

I have a good neighbor friend going through the same thing. If people aren't familiar with the LDS they may not understand the dynamics. When you give up your church you become a pariah to your own family. That takes courage and I wish you the best on your journey. It sounds like you're doing things right even if you have some setbacks.

Staying together in that situation is hard. You have some serious road bumps coming either way.

Reject444 · 2019-06-06T17:32:08+00:00

Good for you, man, if this has helped you and is making you happy. We've discussed this before, and as you know, I have also been a Mormon from the time when I was born. In a way, I never fully bought in--I appreciate the church and its teachings for the value it brings into my life, but I'm realistic (I think) about what that value is and where my boundaries are with it. I didn't go on a mission (sacrifice 2 years of my life in some third-world shithole? No thanks). I don't pay tithing. I don't make the church the center of my lifestyle or worldview like so many others do. I actually believe that much of the core gospel is true (for a host of reasons that I won't get into here), but I don't believe ALL of it blindly, and I don't define myself or my life through those beliefs.

In a way, I think I've been lucky in that I've always been able to distance myself a bit and take the good things that I want to take from church membership without much of the downside. It has given me a strong and healthy moral framework and helped me wrestle with questions about the fundamental purpose of life and other metaphysical issues.

Lately I've been wondering about my kids. My wife carries tons of sexual shame and hang-ups, largely because of the way she was taught in her youth by the church and her own parents (who are pretty devout). This has messed up her enjoyment of sex throughout her life, and has obviously created big problems for me as her husband as well--and now that I've found MRP and grown some balls and a willingness to stand up for myself and the life I want, it puts our entire marriage and family at risk of dissolution. I don't want my daughter to face the same twisted outlook my wife has, though we are unquestionably better parents than my wife's parents are and have been very careful about being more sex-positive when we talk to our kids about it. I think the church is in some ways a healthy environment for kids and gives them a mental anchor on which to base their own sense of morality and ethics, but I do wonder if the dangers of the culture--which I have largely avoided or overcome while still being a respectable member of the church--might outweigh the benefits for young children. I don't have an answer or resolution here, just noting that it's something I've been thinking about, and I fully understand why you've taken the course of action described in your post.

hystericalbonding · 2019-06-06T16:57:47+00:00

Nice post. A new starting point. You now have the potential to establish your frame. You've taken the practical steps to determine your options, and it sounds like you're willing to follow through.

RPeed is shitting on you, missing the relevance of the religious stuff to rule zero. This is the red pill - your reality, your sexual strategy. There has been a fundamental shift in your reality, which opens up countless options in sexual strategy.

She may try all kinds of crazy shit to subvert your influence on the kids.

amalgamator · 2019-06-06T21:46:41+00:00

Dayum - I’m rooting for you. As a Mormon, I can relate 100% with everything you said. I’m lucky my wife has responded well to MRP so I’m not about to blow everything up (yet).

xender19 · 2019-06-06T16:22:31+00:00

I was also born into Mormonism though I made a full recovery from it at 14. Many of my friends have gone through similar things. Some of them got their wives out and they're ok today. Some of them are always on the edge of divorce. Men recover from Mormonism at much higher rates. Really sucks for Mormon women like my sister who have no real place to go because the men have many options and she expects to marry up. I really hate the culture where everything depends on living a lie. Best of luck to you.

bliceroquququq · 2019-06-06T18:23:18+00:00

Sorry man, rough time for you with a lot of changes all at once. Give yourself some room to figure shit out and don't let internet strangers opinions weigh too heavily on your decision making process. If it were me, I'd think about what kind of peace I could make with the church while being a non-believer in order to maintain my family life, assuming I still wanted (not needed) to be with my wife and see my kids every day.

LDS has always been a fascinating thing to me. On the one hand, the Mormons I know are almost all universally kind, decent, loving, family-oriented people with strong community values. On the other hand, the entire religion is made up of complete nonsense from a well-documented bullshitter, and its main purpose is to grow its membership and collect 15% of their incomes for life. They are selling inner peace for a fee, that's it.

But then again, all religions are bullshit. Mormonism, like Scientology, just happens to be recent enough that its claims are easily disproven, where traditional religion's root are so far now in the past that some can still pretend there was once a magic man, born of a virgin, who was the literal son of God, and raised people from the dead, and if you'll pledge your life to him, he'll save you from eternal damnation, or whatever the fuck.

To each their own.

black_jack_davy · 2019-06-06T18:40:29+00:00

I have been where you're at (except for the divorce threat, but w.r.t. Mormonism).

First off, bracket truth claims, period. The way the notion of truth is used in LDS circles is incoherent, and deciding things like whether or not the church is true, or what happened historically, actually need to be set aside. Instead, use the heuristic of utility: is what a church teaches pragmatically useful for your ends, in the context of your mission?

Sooner or later, every man arrives at a state of arrested development. This isn't directly due to religion per se —that is, all human institutions do this to their participants—but totalizing religions in particular can make this a struggle for men. When you awaken to it (often by realizing that you aren't making progress), it is disturbing and upsets your view of many things. Sometimes—eventually—for you to grow in the directions you need, you will have to step away from institutional forms including religion.

Mormonism as a totalizing religion has defined your worldview in deep ways that it will take you decades to identify. This means that you will continue to have a relationship with the church whether you like it or not. You're in an anger phase right now, most likely, so keep that in mind before making irrevocable decisions or burning bridges.

I've been what you would call "intellectually out" for half a decade after a faith crisis ten years ago, but I still attend. (I don't participate much but I'm a butt in the pew.) Why? For the developmental needs of those under my aegis, namely my wife and children. It provides my wife with a social circle which is moderately purple-pilled or at least antifeminist, and it provides my children with a framework for thinking about personal and spiritual development. Just because I've outgrown those particulars doesn't mean that they have. If my wife outgrows it, I'll revisit the question. If my children want to go a different direction, they'll have that option at 18. Mormonism works reasonably well for the components of my mission that involve my family: the heuristic of utility, there. (If you find yourself needing to chat or vent about post/Mormonism, hit me up in DMs.)

While your wife has to make the decision whether your relationship together is worth more to her than your participation as a priesthood-holding member of the church, otherwise the ball is still in your court. You have to be more alpha, which includes providing an overriding vision to her, than her church leaders. This isn't actually that hard in most places due to the random selection of church leadership.

Your leadership role in your family is going to change. Thousand-foot rope and all, but my TBM (true-blue Mormon) wife follows my lead because I've shown that I am trustworthy, that I am a slow (∴ thoughtful) but nearly unquestionable decision maker, and that I have an overriding powerful vision for our—my—family.

You provide that. If you are taking away the totalizing structure, which it is absolutely your right to do as patriarch of the home, you have to replace it with a new compelling framework. That's your vision, and it includes your vision for her. Not a covert contract, not an overt contract, not a contract at all, but a vision, a story, a narrative that helps her make sense of her world. She needs that from you.

_-resonance-_ · 2019-06-06T21:21:52+00:00

Jesus Christ... you are my goddamn fuckin hero.

SBIII · 2019-06-19T13:57:29+00:00

Religion, politics, sports, media, social media. Five of the biggest things that people waste their lives on. All of them are utterly pointless and not only do they add little value to your life, they actively detract from it. As soon as you enter into any of these worlds, you are entering their frame. The less time you spend on any of these things, the better for you.

I used to be a big soccer fan. It was like a religion to me. I grew up watching my favourite team - Manchester United - transform under Alex Ferguson from being an average club to the greatest soccer club of their era. They won every trophy imaginable and did it consistently over 15 years. When he retired, things went south and my interests waned. I still watch them from time to time, but have very little passion for the sport these days.

A couple of weeks ago, I went to a bar to watch the Champions League final. It was full of Liverpool supporters. When they won, the place went mental. Grown men hugging each other, some were so overjoyed, they were in tears. I sat there looking at them, thinking, "what a fucking waste of emotion". Most of these guys were 30+, out of shape and wearing replica football shirts. I doubt any of them have played a sport in over a decade. Yet here they were, getting emotional about a bunch of seriously overpaid sports stars winning a metal cup.

I've never felt so detached from the sport in all of my life and - on reflection - I'm glad of that. I no longer need soccer in my life. Nobody does. Nor do they need religion, politics, sports, media or social media. These are things that fill gaps in people's lives where there shouldn't be any gaps.

Religion doesn't care about you. It only cares about your money.

Politics doesn't care about you. It only cares about your money.

Sport doesn't care about you. It only cares about your money.

The media doesn't care about you. It only cares about your money.

Social Media doesn't care about you. It only cares about your money.

Learn to live life without these things, to fill the gaps with things that reward the time you put into them.

tap0988534 · 2019-06-06T19:50:10+00:00

Alphasixfour,

If you aren't familiar with the concept of noetic structure it is essentially a mental map of your core beliefs often represented as a spiderweb with a ball at the center and layered beliefs wrapped around it going outward. The outer beliefs tend to come and go (i.e. you think Bill is a great guy... then you find out he eats small children.) with minimal impact to the structure.

Beliefs that are deep at the core of structure are almost impossible to let go of because they rip apart most or all of the web. These are the beliefs we rationalize or hold onto in spite of overwhelming evidence, because they have become intrinsic to our identity. Even if they aren't religious, they tend to take on a religious-like fervor and have a component of moral righteousness, such as people's belief in catastrophic global warming or socialism.

When new core beliefs are adopted that result in tension with other core belief's, it essentially makes you feel crazy all the time. If your entire structure gets shattered, it is very difficult because you no longer have a foundation for any moral imperatives. (i.e. Why shouldn't I cheat on my taxes, or cuckold my wife, or become a crime lord with underage sex slaves?) So in persuading someone such as your wife, it is usually hard tear something away without replacing it with a coherent alternative for continued adherence to moral imperatives ( which are essentially common to the human experience.)

The other major problem is anger. We have a tendency to seethe with rage at the beliefs that hurt us. While this rage is motivating it is remarkably unpersuasive, and makes it extremely easy to ignore any argument you present.

Women are incredibly hard to persuade, and are more persuaded by your approach, which should be calm assurance and friendly willingness to engage in dialogue without judgement. Having spent some time arguing with Mormons, I can tell you what I have found to be the most persuasive, and that is primary source materials, and old church materials. Don't use any current official church materials, because these are constantly changing and do not even reflect church teachings from a few years ago. Another good resource is one of the honest histories of Joseph Smith that includes warts, published by real scholars at BYU.

But just obtain a some older Mormon texts of church teachings from 1925 or 1950, and see if your wife will read them with you. Also Brigham Young had people follow him around and write down everything he said, because he was the appointed prophet and his words were the word of God. The LDS church does not publish these writings, but they are still available. And much of the things he said are deeply disturbing and upsetting to every Mormon under 60 that I have shown them to.

One of the strangest things about the LDS is the total disconnect in belief systems between older and younger people in the church, because of the constantly curated changes in doctrine and teaching coming down in revisions from church management.

Older Mormons tend to believe in the perfection of Smith and Young, while younger ones are more commonly willing to admit Smith was at least partially fucked up for stuff like wife-stealing and marrying a mother and her daughter. But if you read enough older church material you quickly find that even thinking badly of Smith was a hellfire offense.

And of course the surefire logical coup de grace is always the Book of Abraham. Smith was wrong about everything historical or verifiable that he said in the BoM, but these arguments have been twisted in circles by church apologists leaving the average mormon struggling to make sense of it. But BoA, is a remarkably clear cut historical test of Smith's abilities as a prophet, that is almost impossible to discount. It not only shows his utter failure as prophet, but it completely proves his character as a charlatan. Furthermore the church canonized his translation of the Egyptian text for years before hieroglyphics were deciphered with the Rosetta stone, and in 1966 were excited that the document would be translated by independent scholars because it would confirm the veracity of Smith's claims.

If you go through this stuff, it is all pretty self-damning. Many years ago, when I used to take the time to go through this stuff with people, it would often end with the person admitting that nothing Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said were true, but that those things didn't matter because they didn't get personal confirmation from the Spirit that those people were real prophets, just that the LDS church was true. At that point there wasn't anything left to discuss, because they had already been convinced and were just grasping at straws.

helaughsinhidden · 2019-06-06T20:43:40+00:00

she can’t be with someone who is half in and half out of the marriage

She threatens divorce and THEN has the balls to say that!? The hypocrisy is so hot my the screen is loose on my phone!

epicaricacy12 · 2019-06-06T16:48:21+00:00

It's a cult. Glad to hear you are getting out of it.

Drummerboy860 · 2019-06-06T17:49:37+00:00

10% of everyone’s income for life. I’ve willingly paid it since I was 8 years old. Hundreds of thousands of dollars over my lifetime.

Ahh, yes - the Sunday Shakedown.

When you look into Old Testament tithing principles, you will find that the congregation brought resources to the storehouse (grain, wine, etc), and not money. Those resources were then distributed out to people who actually needed it - the poor and starving.

I am a Christian, but I also see most churches today for what they really are. A social club that centers around money.

That being said, I hope things work out for you and that you don’t have to divorce.

In the meantime, dive deep into the teachings/words of Jesus on your own time. You’ll find that He was very unlike many of the people you encounter in church, today.

God used a crisis of faith in me to bring me closer to Him than ever before.

useful_stranger · 2019-06-06T18:23:51+00:00

Oh man. As an outsider, I have a lot of admiration for Mormons. When the shit hits the fan, it is people like the Mormons that will make it. Mormons have a very strong sense of community, they help each other, they are prepared in case something really bad happens, and have provisions in their basements for the next six months. Reminds me of the Swiss, who supposedly have a requirement by law to have a nuclear bunker in their basement. Some Swiss have even converted those obviously under utilized facilities into pizza ovens. But I digress.

You are a smart, savvy individual. You are now deep in this community, and hooked-up both on earth (and eternity supposedly) with this woman that you met when you were ~20. A green 20-year-old, impressionable, and fully buying into all of the teachings of the cult.

So at this point, you have some serious choices coming up. One is to blow up the ship, take the highroad, deal with the brutal realities of divorced parents. Use the full extent of the law in your favor. It’s going to suck, and you may still be conflicted. There’s going to be a big part of you that’s happy that you are out of it, don’t live the bullshit life anymore. Live live fully on your terms, which is very satisfying. But another part of you is going to constantly be wondering if perhaps that community you lost was worthwhile after all.

Your other choice is to become a wolf in sheep‘s clothes. On the inside, fully embrace that it is bullshit. Then turn around and feed that very bullshit to others and take a leadership role in the church, take a leadership role in your family, learn to take nothing personally, to joke about it, to basically use religion to your personal advantage. Do your thing, take care of yourself as a man, and outflank anything directly thrown at you to challenge your authority. Brainwash yourself fresh, by really focusing on all the good things that Mormons do. Start doing those things if you haven’t done them already. Recognize their practical value. That’s what matters. Doesn’t matter so much what you believe. Then overtime you can begin to use bullshit, and earn credits with the community as I think you have until now. Basically arrive at it differently, for your own reasons, and let them come up with theirs.

On that path, overtime hopefully, your wife becomes the biggest slut for you to enjoy. You must be a sneaky fox. Not an obstreperous rebel.

Either way, it’s going to be hard, now you are awake. You just need to decide what software you want to operate on and execute.

The only way is through. As Ryan Holiday says the obstacle is the way.

Lastly, understand the value of spirituality for women. It is much more powerful, and much more important to women than it is for men. You basically need to dominate psychologically your woman, before you dominate her in bed. And before she submits to you in bed. And in order to psychologically dominate your woman, you need to feed her need for spiritual leadership. I suspect at this point your best bet to do that is by remaining in the Mormon church. She’s clearly not ready to give up her heavily invested life in this entire community in order to be with you.

2741 · 2019-06-06T17:35:23+00:00

Fascinating story.

That triangulate concept is novel.

0io- · 2019-06-06T20:51:54+00:00

I'd try making one change at a time and really incorporate each one into your life. I've never been a Mormon but have a basically positive view of the organization (especially if they brought back polygamy....) I'm sorry to hear they've taken a hard-Left turn.

At the end of the day, you have to do you, but I'd implement maybe one new change every two or three weeks or so.

You want your wife and family to follow along (probably) and if you suddenly go off in what to them seems like a dangerous direction you'll scare them off.

The ship doesn't turn on a dime. Make a course correction and set a new course.

Edit: I have no idea how it works, but could you take over your local parish and send it off in a better direction?

BobbyPeru · 2019-06-07T03:27:44+00:00

I lived in a highly Mormon state for 4 years - business related reasons. Man, what a trip that was. My neighbor was the neighborhood bishop. Nice guy, but as soon as he figured out I wasn’t going to convert, he went from mr friendly to I couldn’t even get a wave from him as he ducked in his garage and acted like he didn’t see me.

I found it amusing mostly

But yeah, I know how strong their culture is, and in that state being Mormon could sure open a lot of business doors. I’m curious as to whether or not you live in “the Mormon state”

maxwoj · 2019-06-07T07:23:30+00:00

I had been on your path several years ago. Wanted to be good Christian, so I started to read the Bible and faith related texts. I looked for clues how to improve myself. I found those resources cruel, abhorrent, inconsistent and shallow. It occurred that the Word of the omnipotent God is full of bullshit and insconstencies. If you wanna literally follow the Bible teachings, you need to do contradictory things, be judgmental and even perfom crimes.

Then I read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. This book answers a lot of questions the awaking from religion person has. Among many of them, this book proves why the religion is not a source of morality. It's merly a byproduct of morality.

Getting rid of religion was hard. It felt exactly like checking out of a long, toxic relationship. According to all main religions all burden of the relationship with God is on you, and the God won't even bother to give you any sign he cares or even listen. As the Catholic Church claims God's Alpha. And Omega. No reason for a guy with strong frame to please ever absent and angry Alpha.

You're swallowing two different kinds of red pill at once. Good luck

becoming_alpha · 2019-06-07T18:50:17+00:00

As my brother who started from roughly the same place at the same time, I feel a bit like I've been on this journey with you. You're right about the social consequences of letting the ward know you're out. The ministering visits will increase and you'll become a project for the ward council. You can get through that, my own brothers have, though they left the church before they had families.

A fellow MRPer here did almost the exact same thing you did a few years ago, but I think not believing in the church came before MRP for him. I think for the sake of his kids, and teaching them good values, the social structure of the church, and because he had a really good stake president, he decided to stay "active" in the church but doesn't hold a calling and I don't think he pays tithing. He even dropped a talk full of red pill truths at sacrament meeting. I'm not saying you should do that, but it's a path to consider. Even if you get divorced, your kids will be going to the church half the time anyway. If you can't stomach going through the motions, I get that too.

You're a good dude, and I'm proud of you for standing on your own two feet and following your personal convictions.

One serious glaring problem with your post though. Not nearly enough beard :-)

screechhater · 2019-06-07T23:39:03+00:00

This is an ass kicking, take no prisoners post of developing “frame”

It is about educating yourself. Never, ever underestimate the power of knowledge.

It just fucking blows me away how many fucks come here, start and never really understand “frame” is about living with knowledge to live a better life, and then implementing it.

I fault you for Defending your stance and talking way to much on the lawyer meeting. But then again welcome my friend, freedom lies beyond the next series of doors

witnessthenomorebp · 2019-06-08T19:03:52+00:00

Left 4 years ago after reading the CES letter and discovering the exmormon sub Reddit. I feel your pain and it was the best thing I ever did. If you are in the valley there are a bunch of us here. It's a cult and that is why you are feeling the way you do. Brainwashing and mind control combined with shunning = cult. Stick to you and you will come out happier, healthier and much better off.

alphasixfour · 2019-06-10T16:23:50+00:00

Damn bro, I'm late to the game after being out of town the last few days. Can't say I'm shocked to see this is the conclusion you've reached. It's a liberating experience when you allow yourself the freedom to question the "truths" you've been taught, but you're now in a position of navigating unfamiliar waters. A few thoughts:

It’s patently obvious that I’m still a shit captain, because she is not following my leadership and doesn’t believe or respect a fucking thing I say. I’m the bad guy.

Just as you can't negotiate desire, you can't force her to follow your lead out of the church. She will need to come to this on her own, which may or may not happen. The more you push for this, the more she will retrench. I'm taking the long game approach.

Once my retraction from the church goes public ...

What's your plan here? Are you going to resign? I'm still on the records but have been open about my status as a non-believer. I semi-regularly attend with my family, don't hold a calling, don't pay tithing, don't hold a TR, etc. I enjoy the social component, and when I attend I treat it as such.

My family will be a project for church leaders, and since I will have stepped away, a degree of my authority within the household will be cucked to local priesthood leaders.

This is another reason I've decided not to remove my name from church records. Here's an interesting twist ... my bishop has actually complimented me for attending as a non-believer. I've never felt like my family is a project, but if I completely stopped attending or removed my name from the records, that would likely change.

She threatened me with divorce being on the table if I choose to leave the church. AWALT revisionist history makes me the aggressor. No fucks given. Stop engaging and STFU.

This may be a shitty comfort test. She's likely worried you're going to start fucking around now that you don't have the moral obligations of a believer. Give her reassurance that you're still the same guy she married, even if you don't believe the same things. Then STFU and let your actions speak. It's hard for TBMs to comprehend that people can be good without the influence of the church. Take this as an opportunity to re-evaluate your progress and work on being a better captain than you were before.

My plan is to make my way forward in the way that I see fit and now free of having my life held hostage by her or any church.

This.

BluepillProfessor · 2019-06-10T16:43:03+00:00

The only truths in this world are The Red Pill and Holy Scripture. Read the Bible and find God the way it was intended. Jesus is still there even if your belief in the trappings of a particular religion have been shaken.

One point to ponder: If you have finally accepted that you can, in fact, divorce your wife, then it is far, far less likely that you will actually have to divorce her. If you don't leave the wife, why do you need to leave the church?

roasterviking · 2019-06-11T01:08:34+00:00

Mormonism made bitches of all of us that were in it. You got this brother.

Persaeus · 2019-06-06T16:51:47+00:00

If there is a God

there isn't. always fails me how any RATIONAL man believe in the sky god. pure projection

Her response to the dread so far has been underwhelming.

either she doesn't believe the threat is real or doesn't see it as a loss.

Sepean · 2019-06-06T16:40:48+00:00

Threatening with divorce is not dread, don't expect dreadlike results from it. Dread is the response to learning that other girls want to fuck you.

g_e_m_anscombe · 2019-06-06T21:11:57+00:00

I converted from atheism to Christianity in college and the first group I left after one year was pretty culty, like Mormonism. I’m one of the only people who stayed Christian, but I went on a 7 year theological journey. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because Mormonism is crazy doesn’t mean all organized religion is bad.

Your attitude of it’s not your job to convert her is right. If you lead well she may just follow you, but it’s hard to do when a whole family is in so deep.

SteelToeShitKicker · 2019-06-06T17:05:12+00:00

I'm sure you have thought of this, but just in case... We have a small mormon population in town, and they tend to be employed at the same places. Just make sure that if you go apostate, the church doesn't have members with influence to fire you or affect you financially. If so, best start looking for a new position.

meetinnovatorsadrian · 2019-06-06T17:40:23+00:00

The red pill by itself can turn into a black pill (ie very negative).

Before you throw everything away, learn about Rooshv, one of the most famous red pill guys in the manosphere who has now become a christian

https://www.thedailybeast.com/daryush-valizadeh-the-pick-up-artist-known-as-roosh-says-he-has-found-god

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-73256.html

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-72750.html

WhiteNight200 · 2019-06-06T18:11:51+00:00

Faith is deeply personal. I hope you find what you're looking for.

I'd be more interested in hearing where you were stalling with the Pill.

It's your prerogative, but I encourage you to leave your old posts as they are. They were influential in my choice to pursue MRP, as I'm sure they have been for many others.

Like you said, finding balance between Mormonism and the Red Pill is Nintendo-hard.

samwiser92 · 2019-06-06T23:44:09+00:00

You seem to be at an early anger/Rambo phase, you should slow down as you may destroy relationships you could regret a year+ from now. You’re conflating your personal/marriage/faith crises in a whirling victim puke looking for dopamine-inducing validation online here. You proclaim RP, but kinda sound like a faggot. I should hope once you get the anti-Mormon stuff outta your system you can find affirming things to bring you greater peace and a new mission.

waitshhhhhh · 2019-06-06T18:37:10+00:00

Great post /u/alphasixfour! And congrats on your, shall we say, faith transition. I'm a never-mo but was raised a strict southern baptist, but no longer any sort of believer.

For some reason, I'm a huge geek over LDS history, mainly because it's so recent, you can see how the sausage is actually made.

Last year I read two histories of the mormon church -- Rough Stone Rolling, by a TBM who is constantly making apologetics for the history he can't quite whitewash. And No Man Knows My History, by Fawn Brody, who was a TBM, realized it's bullshit and wrote a fantastic book about the early years.

I never post on MRP because, frankly, I just can't keep up with all the goddamn jargon. But the thing that jumped out at me reading mormon history is how goddamn blue pill the entire society is. With Joe Smith and his huge pair of red pill balls at the top. *Hey, you should go on a mission to england, I'll just stay here and keep watch on your wife and daughter.*

Seriously, holy fuck the balls on that guy! He's a straight up psychopath, but he just did what every other incredibly successful religious leader has done to one degree or another since time began. *Hey, God told me you should give me your shit. Here's a bunch of rules and regulations he also gave me to keep you busy and make you feel guilty. And when you do feel guilty, come back to me with more shit because God also gave me the solution to that!*

Do you ever frequent /r/exmormon? It's filled with stories just like yours. Some marriage destroyed by and others transformed by the realization that it's all bullshit.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi and that your wordy post was a fantastic read for this never-mo.

Also, what is DEERing? I've seen it around, but can never figure it out.

Dickskingoalzz · 2019-06-06T23:47:20+00:00

I lived in Utah for 11 years, when my business partners tried to convert me I read the CES letter and 100% noped out. I’ve seen firsthand the effect it can have, if at all possible you should leave the Morridor and get your family into “normal” life.

[deleted] · 2019-06-07T02:18:47+00:00

You’re the leader, she’ll follow you. But do you want that?

framelessglasses · 2019-06-07T02:41:54+00:00

A church is run by people. God does not run it. His name is just used as a free endorsement.

Aside from your wife, your problem is with church people. Try not to confuse that with your relationship, or lack of it, with God.

Seriously , re-read your post, and, try to recognize how reactive you are to your wife's frame. Think about cooling your jets a bit, you are showing some Rambo macho mind here. That seldom ends well for anyone. Once you see how you've turned over way too much of your frame to her, and the church people, then decide about pulling the pin and running.

Wulfwinterr · 2019-06-07T02:53:15+00:00

Yeah, Mormonism is the biggest racket since Scientology - only it's been around a lot longer. You've probably already found it, but if you want help to un-brainwash your wife check out r/exmormon and cesletter.org.

Good luck dude.

Gofor_Pyle · 2019-06-07T04:49:09+00:00

The Bible is red pilled, churches are not.

FereallyRed · 2019-06-07T08:57:32+00:00

Religion and redpill are fundamentally antagonistic.

Religion gives you a framework of how your life "should be". According to, well, whatever someone else decrees.

Redpill states you should do what is best for you, taking into account you still have to exist in a society that does not share your view.

Sit on the fence and that wrought iron fleur de lis imbeds itself in your ass.

samwiser92 · 2019-06-07T17:00:58+00:00

You got some serious daddy issues with your church. You say your relationships aren’t real since they were founded on a lie, but a divorce court judge won’t use that logic when considering your four kids. Seriously, slow down. I recommended you find a new mission, for clarification, it needs to to be for something, not based on your anger against something.

Goobergus_Gubbins · 2019-06-17T21:37:47+00:00

Great post. I'm now 55. Was raised in a cult. [Aside/ Do you know how you can tell if you're in a cult? Great news! It's those idiots at the church across the street from yours with their totally-incorrect invisible beings from the ancient world that are a cult. Yours is the one true faith. /aside] At around 40, my cognitive dissonance shattered when I read a couple books about evolution and big bang cosmology that were written by scientists and not theologians. It's hard to describe how mentally and emotionally jarring it was to realize that Noah's ark was not real and evolution was not fake. Anyway, I became non-religious, and stopped donating $thousands to Jesus. This was hard on my wife, but when she realized that I was a better man without my old invisible friends, she came around and it's a non-issue now. Good luck to you.

freekshow88 · 2019-06-06T16:44:29+00:00

Sounds like you went Rambo on your religion and your wife.

RPeed · 2019-06-06T16:22:47+00:00

Curious: if someone skipped every paragraph that contained the word mormon/LDS/church/religion... what relevant detail do you think they would miss?

alphasixfour · 2019-06-06T22:21:33+00:00

start a blog

mrpthrowa · 2019-06-06T16:22:48+00:00

I came out of this post knowing more about her than about you

Give us some respect dude I don’t have time to know about a random ho

Gray_Harman · 2019-06-06T18:37:13+00:00

MRP is fundamentally antithetical to nearly everything the New Testament Jesus ever taught in the Bible. How MRP followers ever think they can be believing Christians and also follow the MRP plan is entirely beyond me.

FR: Losing My Religion

Mormon Discussions Podcasts – Full Lineup

Navigating Mormonism One Episode At A Time

Title	FR: Losing My Religion
Author	alphasixfour
Upvotes	84
Comments	175
Date	June 6, 2019 4:07 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/bxih8t/fr_losing_my_religion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/fr-losing-my-religion.240973 https://theredarchive.com/post/240973