Woman: I believe in the wage gap issue.Some yoyo: But men work longer hours, put in more effort than women and more likely to do the more risky aspects of the job.Woman: Oh, I didn't know that. Thank you for this information. I will reconsider my stance on the wage gap issue.
Never. Happened. Stop arguing with feminists, feminism- as among other ideologies- is the new organised religion. You getting paid to tell women this because it boost your view count is a different story, but most of you don't get $$$ for this.
If a woman says she's a feminist, and that she believes in concepts of feminism- there is no point in telling her a different point of view. Even a backhanded comment such as "Oh I think feminism has reached its peak" is just asking for it. A chick says she's a feminist, you acknowledge it with a nod or "Cool." and that's it.
This is really common with young men who are just starting out in life and are developing their views on life. A key point to remember is that feminism is a natural ideology for women (just as the Muslim or Jew believing that consumption of pork is forbidden) and that women take arguments to their claims personally.
Update 14/08/2019: Thank you all for your comments.
My final point, blue-haired overweight women are not the ones pulling the strings, it's the elites/corporations. For instance, we went from "Stay in your place, peasant! You are disobeying the will of God by moving about the social order we have!" to "Single motherhood, which creates soyboys who don't threaten us big people, is a very great family type that we need to encourage!"
This good advise if you want to get laid, but in general this way of thinking is the reason feminism has gotten out of hand. Nobody sane wants the trouble debating brings, which leads to a free reign of terror for feminists, and it's all mens fault for letting it get to this point.
True. People don't see how important the argument is even if you appear not to win it. Your words will echo in your opponents mind for a long time and have their way through the barriers more often than you will ever know.
The point of a debate is largely also to convince the audience; not the entrenched opposition.
Femenism is a shit test agree and amplify. Force her to buy the next round or agree with her and tell her how you are a femenist to and give her some story about how she should be your wage slave.
This, I did this almost every date in college (very liberal place.) Girl I saw for longer than most, and became friends with, said I owed her 100’s of dollars; I laughed and said I know.
I dated a women's studies + pscyhology double major at an IV league school - she was hot, smart, and obviously a bit crazy.
when we'd "have spirited discussions" I would insist she prove her power to me by picking up that meal's bill and then being on top when we'd fuck later, even tho i said it many times, it would stop the table-talk for a moment while she pictured us fucking - even on top, i'm the one inside her, I'm the penetrating force.... so her position in the end wasn't true power. And of course, half the time I'd flip her and finish from the top to remind her: "you like it when I fuck you like this, yes?" (moans of yes yes) ....ah, college...
The results of their ideology is all that’s left for them.
Argueing isn't the solution. If a child tells you it deserves more candy you don't argue. You laugh.
Sadly most people in positions of power have collectively failed that shit test a long time ago.
There is one case where arguing with a feminist has merit: this is when other people, that are on the margins, view the discussion, and you want to highlight the absurdity of the feminist. You are not arguing to change the feminist, you are arguing to make things clear for the others.
Feminism is just one of a few cultural Marxist tools used to corrupt Western civilisation from the inside-out. Simply blaming men doesn't address the true culprits.
"cultural marxist" is a neo-nazi conspiracy theory that refers to anything white supremacists don't like.
Incorrect. Cultural Marxism, with ideals such as political correctness, and it's intention to subvert Western Civilisation/culture is a well documented reality with roots in the Frankfurt school. You can research people such as Max Horkheimer and I can give you some videos to watch if that's more up your alley.
I'm well-versed on the topic. It's a neo-nazi conspiracy theory used to blanket label anything white supremacists do not like.
"Political correctness" itself is also a buzzword, and in general if you have to rely on buzzwords to define something you're only proving my point.
You're evidently not well-versed as it's not a conspiracy theory; just a conspiracy. And by no means do I need to rely on buzzwords (in short political correctness is the veil used to censor and govern speech, thought and political dissent under the guise of goodwill) as you so ironically do with terms such as "neo-nazi" and "white supremacists" - at this point I'm not sure whether you're trolling or serious. If the latter then I'll send a couple of you tube videos your way as independent research doesn't appear to be your strong suit. They will serve as a starting point to hopefully instigate further research on your end.
Doubleplus goodthink, comrade.
"cultural marxist" is a neo-nazi conspiracy theory that refers to anything white supremacists don't like.
Arguing with feminists won't solve any of this. It's like saying that arguing with Isis will solve terrorism. It's not the extremeists you need to get through to, and just arguing fact is never going to prevent the emotional manipulation they affect on others.
That’s absurd. The reason feminism has gotten out of hand is because people vote their interests (minus brainwashed middle class white males), and feminism serves women’s interests. The solution is to take away their vote.
Man... its arguing with women that's the problem. Hate to say it but its true. Of course a small minority can think like a man but it's a small minority.
Wanting to 'argue' with any woman should be a red flag for the self.
Amused mastery does not argue. You come up with a positive way to redirect the conversation.
It is hard to admit the truth sometimes, but wanting/willfully allowing yourself to argue her views, is the 'truth' that you as a man have lost attraction.
Do you want to have sex with 'cheerfull dirty girl'? Or bang 'annoying grumpy bitch'?
Arguing with a woman is abandoning your frame and entering hers. Doubly stupid. Amused mastery is good, being uninterested and changing the subject is good, ignoring her and remaining aloof is good. Engaging is bad
Not only that it makes you look bad. You can be absolutely 100% right but if you come off as an MRA type you will lose big social points in most circles
An optional play for engaging the topic: after doing things that are decidedly not feminist, I tell girls “I’m a feminist” in a completely deadpan manner. Stare off feigning disinterest as you say it and then hit em with the smirking side-eye. Turns a switch boys. Usually they have that slightly agape ‘I should be offended but I’m a little turned on’ look, or they will challenge which is easily swatted away with another acerbic jab and waggish grin. They want to argue because GoGrrl social conditioning wants them to, but you’re laughing so they short circuit. Women are so sick of BP men earnestly telling them that they’re feminists (gag) that they crave a guy who will make fun of feminism in a subtle way. Can’t be too direct or they will snap out of rapport and Defensive Debate Bitch springs into action. Moment ruined. You will never win an actual debate with a woman about feminism—even if you win, you lose.
My current is a feminist. When posed this issue my retort was; give me an example of ANY organisation that pays women less than men, based on gender. She couldn't.
I never argue with the current; I hit her with facts and she has the good sense to appreciate it. The trick is to frame it objectively. So she can't claim any emotional leverage. Then if she's too vacuous to accept fact; leave her on read.
Godspeed and good luck!
This makes sense, but I still wouldn't bother unless I know they're cool and willing to listen. Most of the time it is best to not engage at all I would say.
Great comment, this applies to life in general not just women. Be playfull, funny, dont take things too serious, while being an expert at everything you do. Arguing is a waste of time, either A or B gets his will or some kind of draw, but you allready know that your will shall be done so why waste time arguing? When you get proficient enough in life to adopt amused mastery, you will be high fiving trash that steps up in a club, asking the road rager if he prefers his pasta al dente and telling your girl/s that they look really cute when they get angry.
if its a friend and its one of those nights you want to talk politics then by all means do it, but it wont help you get laid.
Agree 9 times out of 10 amused mastery works wonders.
I dont give a literal fucking shit about getting laid. Im putting a shit eating bitch in her place, and then jacking off over it. Thats it
Can "appear" to think like men.
Unicorn, oneitis, etc. is what happens when we believe we've found "one of the few" who can relate.
Spez: for example, a recent plate was phenomenally fun and engaging to be with. Once she "secured" the dick, it was all gone. I learnt a lesson. The ones who seem to want relationships the least are the ones who want relationships the most, they want to convince they're "perfect" for you(the rp man). The ones who seem to want relationships the most are the ones who are trying to convince you they are "good", they only want the dick(mostly).
Wait...are you saying women and men think on fundamentally different terms on a variety of topics due to their biological makeup?
Wrong. We're exactly the same and the only difference is that one has a peepee and one has a woowoo. Stating otherwise is bigoted and sexist.
STILL WRONG! A man can turn into a woman and vice versa like magic! /S
FUCK! I need to check my privilege.
It's called a front hole you bigot
Arguing itself is the problem. Very few people are willing to change their view point, even when they're presented with facts.
Arguing in general is the problem. You almost never benefit from arguing.
Depends how you define arguing
I don't need to get paid for it. It's sport. I do it for fun.
As long as you don't get mad
Never. It's entertainment watching them rage.
Women can’t argue about feminism the same way a man can argue about he patriarchy. Women cannot help but take it personally. Their emotions will not allow them to discuss both sides of the coin dispassionately. You only have to look at the comments on YouTube by women on videos of Red Pill info.
Typically, an exchange goes something like this:
RP: “so as you can see, 70% of divorce cases are instigated by women”
Women commentator: “you bald bastard, you only say that because you’re not getting laid.”
RP: “it’s true and nine out of ten men in prison come from a single-mother household”.
Women commentator: “did your wife leave you you sad cunt?”
It's not just women who do this either.
I've seen plenty of men act in this way, too. And many times it doesn't even matter what ideology they subscribe to; the minute you bring up a statistic or fact that challenges their world view even to the slightest degree they get defensive to the extreme and start slinging ad hominem and straw man attacks like a screaming toddler throwing his toys because he couldn't eat ice cream for dinner. Grown. Ass. Men.
I think the mass use and consumption of social media has a lot to do with it, and as a result both men and women have lost their ability to hold civil conversations about difficult and multifaceted topics, instead dumbing it down to cheap sloganisms and soundbytes they take as gospel because the latter doesn't take any intellectual effort whatsoever.
It's quite sad to see people act in this way, but at the same time there's no way to force people to better themselves emotionally and intellectually if they can't objectively look in the mirror. It's a waste of time.
People who only expose themselves to a specific set of views, take any argument or criticism personally because they identify themselves with those ideas.
It's really frustrating when people look at arguments emotionally and can't dissociate themselves with their arguments and ideas.
Not worth doing if you can avoid it tbh.
I'll one up on that
48 Laws of Power:
Win Through Your Actions - Never Through Argument
Yes, exactly, status/coolness first.
You can also argue orthogonally.
Feminist: "Wage gap blah blah blah."
Reasonable human: "Could there be any other explanation?"
Feminist: "No."
Reasonable Human: "I wonder. Maybe that's something to be considered." Walks away.
Yes, a gentle reminder for people to actually think critically. Even if it's only effective 2% of the time, it's something.
But when you do, do be ready for the reality of a main event. It's a tidal wave.
Disagree. Debating with friends is fantastic mental exercise, as long as people can handle the discussion.
So true once you really adopt it. Works with men as well, as stated.
Totally with you on this. This happened to me a few weeks ago.
Feminist: “I believe men do not resolve anything, they rely too much on their moms and women in their life to resolve things “
Me: I might need to differ with you there. What about Elon Musk, Tesla, Newton?
Feminist: “What do you know about this if you are a man “
Everyone on the table including her friends looked at her like “wtf dude”.
Feminist (realizing what a motherfucking sexist comment that was) : okay, it might be true what you’re saying, it could be generational...bla bla bla
Not pleasant experience for anyone. Never again.
Still. There’s every day normal guys who hold a sense of responsibility and aren’t overgrown man boys. The overgrown man boy problem actually became more prevalent as society became more feminist and basic male duties that were the common standard and expected of men became “toxic”.
Oops! Accidentaly showed her biases too much! Better recant!
This is a very good example. Literally no one benefits. The man already knows hes right and can prove it. The woman doesn't care if shes right because she feels right. Dunking on her makes her feel bad which automatically makes him wrong. And bystanders/social groups will see it as brutish and malevolent as if he were beating a child, because she feels bad.
Mockery is king in this situation. Forces people to go with the flow or drop the issue to avoid looking socially inept. However ignoring it is often way easier I've found.
I agree... you’ll just be wasting time and when they can’t anything else constructive they’ll just attack you personally to try and discredit you
I’ll BTFO a feminist anytime I want. I am lucky enough to be in a career where a phone call to my work won’t ruin my life and leave me homeless, and I’m over the high school/college popularity contests where you’re trying to be on everyone’s good side. Most of my good friends are red pilled and woke to female bullshit..
even without that, you should never feel ashamed to speak your mind given you do it respectfully and tastefully. If you find yourself around a group of people where you can’t do this, it’s toxic as fuck and will slowly drive you insane.. probably why so many people are on dope for mental illness and depression today.
The feminist may not take in what I have to say but I’m gonna speak my mind and not enable their toxic bullshit for a millisecond.
I agree with everything you said, but you're making too little of an important part here.
"given you do it respectfully and tastefully"
Like most red pill advice, most blokes here need to follow the absolute "do not do this" rule because they don't understand moderation.
Look at all the "I love to shut the snowflakes up with my logic!" comments in the thread. These are the autists that need this advice.
That's why you have friends. If you're tip toeing around your friends then yeah I'd agree. But most people if not all need acquaintances and friendly connections to sustain and acquire benefits. That's when having some restraint is vital.
These people cannot locate how they formed those opinions, that's why when you challenge them it causes irreconcilable cognitive dissonance. They can't face the idea that their general opinions are not supported by sound judgement, they'd rather live in a fantasy.
Treat anyone who behaves this way like a child, even men do this now too.
The best thing you can do to cure the cancer that is feminism is to be really nice to them. You need to be a cool attractive guy. I know an unattractive feminist girl from work. What I done was talk to he with love in my eyes, ZERO CONFRONTATION, zero argumentation. I know how to dismantle the wage gap myth. I could bury her. But that achieves NOTHING. Instead I act a bit confused, mention a few examples and pretend that I am considering her argument.
I feel sorry for some of these girls, they are just unloved, single and bitter twords men. So I just be really nice in a giving way, I even praised her and gave recommendations. I have partly cured her. She is taking better care of herself and stoped talking about the BS issues.
You need to LOVE these girls not argue. But don't get me wrong, I wouldn't touch her with a ten foot poll.
Rare to see the L word here but I agree with your comment. They are hitching for guys to prove them right with aggression and 'gaslighting'. Be a courteous enough person and demonstrate a little kindness and sensitivity and they realize the crock of shit mantra that they have been worshipping.
It's true, most feminists are feminista because of a lack of strong male presence in her life. Daddy issues, boyfriend issues, bullied, daughter or friend of a woman with those issues, etc.
You're not arguing to convince them, you're arguing to undermine the rationality of their position in front of observers, to not let them control discourse without opposition. And it's sort of working.. feminists are angrier than before because they know theyre hemorrhaging symbolic capital.
I've noticed less boldness by feminists in the last half year. Slightly encouraging.
"You're a feminist? Oh that's a shame. Does that mean you don't give head and have big bushy armpits?"
A woman not shaving is brave and noble, you fucking neckbeard!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi1garD9v3jAhUHiqwKHTuJCn4QjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnybits.mobi%2F2013%2F05%2Fsometimes-men-make-strangest-requests.html&psig=AOvVaw05er1OtUNzLOa4pCuA3A9x&ust=1565719682846389
Discussing with feminists is like wrestling with a pig.
After a while, you realise the pig enjoys it.
Unfortunately for them, I am an engineer and a ENTP (debater) so there's no greater feeling than to shut them up with logic and get mad about it.
This isn't red pill advice though, it will definitely not get you laid. But sometimes you just wanna have a little fun.
Since when did they shut up when logic was used?! Careful with the ENTP... Narcissists hide behind those letters.
ENTP here. Thanks for sharing, was unaware narcissism was associated with this. But makes sense if I think about it through my past experiences...
Man I wish I thought well enough of myself to be able to be a narcissist...
It is fun to trigger the snowflakes, but social media can act as a digital version of a lynch mob. "Lead me not into temptation, 'cause I already know the way."
NO, you just want to be "right".
I am an ENTP/J, you aren't shutting them up, you are making them bigger feminists while jerking yourself off.
Funny how insecure humans work. Providing them with counter-evidence only makes their beliefs stronger.
Emotions don't have context sometimes. It's better to simply change the emotion than worry about "facts".
When is the last time someone argued with their dog for wagging its tail?
It show that there a problem. If nobody care it show the problem is non-existant.
I find being right to be a lot of fun.
But, you only think you are. There is a huge difference between 'arguing' and getting someone to "think".
It's still fun though isn't it..
Snap, dude. Engineer and ENTP, and I also enjoy doing that.
*fist bump*
You know, I've been trying to incorporate MBTI with Game for some time now. Everyone else says that an INTJ's cold and aloof exterior is a weakness but it's actually a strength as far as frame and DGAF are concerned, for example. My reservation is that AWALT doesn't discriminate on whatever a woman's personality type is. Even the most introverted, rational woman will get her pussy wet over the right alpha she comes across.
A short post, but brevity is the soul of wit. Even beyond arguing some ideas like wage gap and equality, most new guns will want to argue trp and prove what they have learned. Don't do it. It's pointless.
I've got to be honest, I was fine with feminism when it was equal rights. Now it's give me free stuff because I have a vagina. Most women will fall into the first group. The ones who want an argument are usually in the second.
So yes, ignore and move on.
I too was never fine with feminism.
I think this issue has more nuance than OP is representing. Young men need to see older men representing the strength and positive aspects of masculinity— if this content or perspective is drowned out by mouthpiece ideology then young men are worse off.
You shouldn't argue for its own sake, or for the sake of converting the other party, but you absolutely should for everyone else's.
Like a lot of red pill advice, this is a case of "always follow this rule (until you know how not to)"
Most blokes here can't contain themselves and think that spouting statistics they read on the internet is going to break the minds of every feminist within earshot and make every bro cheer them on. They are the ones who are best served by this advice.
When the loudest voices of your opinion are those of bratty children, your opinion now seems childish.
Feminist women are not the issue here. The issue is that all women are like children and arguing with them is like arguing with children. There is absolutely no point in it and it's just a waste of your precious time
This! every time you interact with a woman, repeat it in your head "women are like children" "Women ARE children" a woman's mind development stops when she grows tits, around 16. Even if you talk to a woman in their 40, she reacts like she's 16. Men however mature up until 30 and maybe 40.
I'm 40. Most girls, even 30-40 yo, are like teenagers to me. They post inane memes, childish stories. Grown, pathetic men often do the same, and pretend to be kids, but is just that, pretending. Women, however, are children.
Feminism is a reaction to a society of weak men. If you hold frame - playfully and politely disagree and it will build attraction and usually they will drop it. If they see sincere strength in you - and u subcommunicate that u aren’t down with her pussy hat faggotry, over time they will change or at least soften their radical views - not through logical words - women don’t think like men stop expecting them to.
Women always "win" the argument at the end. Men always win it at the beginning.
Everytime a woman argues, it is about emotions ultimately, not content. Content is less relevant at the start and becomes totally irrelevant as time goes on. The mistake many men think is that women want a discussion. Nope, they just want what they want along with the emotions. Words are secondary to a woman.
Everytime someone gets emotional, they lose rationality.
If there is a wage gap, companies would only hire women at 80 or 85 cents to the dollar. Women would get paid more, companies would save money overall, owners and shareholders are happy at better numbers.
If women were so enraged about rape as a national crisis, then they would also be working to get rid of in prisons amongst men, to punish female teachers who
sleep withrape their male students and to punish women to make false rape accusations.If women really wanted "girls night out" just to be with their female friends, there would be women-only bars and clubs.
Gender studies is a scam. Going to college to study something beyond stem may be as well.
Don't argue with women and their White Knight chump male friends. But also be aware of the bs.
i agree with all of your points except the hiring of only women at a cheaper price. yea if it was true i dont think companies would do that because ultimatley women make for terrible employees and they would end up running the company into the ground.
Thats oart of his point, if they did equal work and the wage gap was real, companies would be all female. Yet that isn't that case, so either they do not do equal work or the wage gap is fake.
Exactly. There may be no such thing as equal work. I get it if it's something like retail or fast food (something minimum wage or close to it). But two mid-level employees with the same title and credentials can be handling completely different tasks day to day, thus they provide different value to the company. Equal pay for equal work is kinda bullshit, let alone gender wage gap.
Arguing in general when there's nothing at stake should be avoided.
Of course. They are postmodernists philosophically speaking. They don’t care about facts, not reason, nor even logic. They only care about you being submissive to them. They want obedience and deliver hysteria. They are hysterical self-victimism poison. Do not interact with them. At all. Not even joking.
What if you’re having a regular human-to-human conversation with someone, maybe older than you, and they say something I don’t agree with, and we have a calm, civil discussion about it? Surely a conversation like that should be fine, right?
I used to be a feminist but I’ve always had an open mind which is why I don’t identify as one anymore. I think that the wage gap is a really lazy and intellectually dishonest idea.. I think that women are discouraged to be aggressive in day to day life so when it comes to their careers of course they’re going to not want to rock the boat and ask for higher pay or do as rough things as a man would. I do think that men and women should get paid for the same work and a lot of the time it simply boils down to how men and women are socialized rather than the boss thinking, “this WAHMAN deserves less than my alpha MALE over here” like some feminists believe.
Arguing with them is often like interacting with a child.
Only argue with anyone if you feel like it would actually lead to a productive discussion. Otherwise, even if you're right, some people don't wanna hear it, so it's best to just acknowledge their views.
About 8 years ago, in University, I dated a feminist. I was a male feminist (don't judge, I was young and blue-pilled).
Most fucked up sex I've ever had. She was really into being dominated. We're talking full bondage, blindfolds, beating up her tits, and spanking her ass bloody and raw with an instrument and then fucking her in her ass as her asscheeks bled from the beating.
I've spoken with other guys who dated feminists and they've had similar experiences. I'm convinced feminism is just a massive shit test and they all secretly want a very conventionally masculine man. Our society has failed that shit test and we are suffering for it. It will take a generation or two to correct things, if we ever manage it. My generation, the millennials, are the worst of it. Gen Z looks quite promising, though.
Lol I know a ultra-feminist millenial girl and she's into rape simulation sex. Weirdest thing I ever heard.
Yeah, but this ideology has already contaminated universities and legislature. (More or less depending on the country.)
Argue in vain - no. But here needs to be some counter argument because this thing affects everyone.
Or just don't talk to them if they say they are a feminist. You don't need that bullshit in your life.
Don't bother arguing with any feminist. Tell them, and leave. There's no need for a back-and-forth.
If you have to encounter them (at work, for example) I find the best way to deal with them is to make comments such as, "Oh, I heard [feminist] is good at making coffee..." when everybody is discussing who is getting the hot drinks for the meeting. Works a treat.
Arguing with a feminist is like arguing with a rat, get that out your life.
And don't forget, avoid like the plague. Because that is what they are. A real plague on the society and the men they come in contact with.
Yeah this is called practice. Let people do it. It's more informative that what you just said.
This is correct, you never argue with hoes, you regulate them.
As a wise man once said: "You can think what you want, till I blow the back of your brains out, then we see if you can think with your front."
Learning to keep one's mouth shut is one of the many benefits of joining the military.
See your recruiter today.
Just open the argument with "Yeah well we have PZB" and walk away #micdrop
Just cut any open feminists off.
When this discussion comes up, I reference two things:
Provide me a company name that pays women differently than men that have the same job title, experience, education, and tenure at the company. So far I've received zero answers
Glassdoor provided a study that essentially referenced #1 and found that the % of women's salary to men's at the same level and company is about 96%. Its not 100%, and the fact that there is a shown gap sucks...but there are plenty of factors that go into, some of which are biological.
Why you even waste time arguing with them in the first place? You cannot get anything positive by arguing with them...
Absolutely agree. Need more posts like this!
Yeah but feminists can vote...
Plus I love debating (arguing for them) so I just turn dates into that. It's not like I'm gonna try get a second one after that red flag anyways
Yeah, at best, you win them over or induce a mental breakdown.
It’s a loaded argument.
You’re both basically trying to “debate” the wage gap on the scale the size of society, but let’s be honest, neither you nor the imaginary woman in the scenario really understand wages paid for every job out there for male vs female.
But also, the moment you start positioning yourself against the idea of the reality and authenticity of a wage gap, it will be interpreted as if you’re starting to defend the ideology of a wage gap (and if you honestly think someone else should be paid less for the same work because of their gender or race, you’re an asshole) even if that’s not what you’re trying to say.
This is so true. I never learn though. Keep debating with feminists and it really doesn’t matter. They aren’t going to change their stance and pretty much pointless. LOL!
I also read post that feminism by itself a big shit test. When I started treating it like a shit test, it started to make more sense that it is. Simple AA works when it comes to feminism.
Like they say “feminist until you’re married”. It’s just a new level of shit test to gauge your confidence. Another way to seek the alpha Male.
Spending the time to argue is validating that the ideologies might have merit and value--that they are worthy of debate and discussion--reinforcing the beliefs.
That's the most leftist statement I've read on TRP. lmal
A little different perspective. I am dating a self-proclaimed feminist. She is incredibly bright, self-sufficient and independent. She pays for 1/2 of pretty much everything we do together. She doesn't go overboard regarding feminist comments but they come out occasionally. I don't argue, but don't try and assuage her by agreeing with every thing she says regarding those topics either.
But the following is the noteworthy part to me. When we first started dating, we both met after work at her place and had planned on going out to dinner. I told her where I had planned for dinner. Her response was to thank me for making the decision. She stated that at work all she does is make decisions, and with her friends, she is usually the decision maker. The point was explicit in that with all the toughness displayed by her, in the end, she wants a man to make decisions and lead her in the relationship.
Now, here is the part for me, and for probably many of you, that is tough. The nice-guy conditioning is a tough habit to break. Occasionally, I will slip up and ask her: "what do you want to do?" "where do you want to go?' "is it alright if we go here?" Not surprisingly, as soon as I regress and ask one of these questions, I usually am met with a stammer and delays before answering. If I catch that quickly, then I shut down the stammering and silence by telling her where we are going to go and what we are going to do.
One of the best things about this site is not only guidance on how to act initially, but also, I come here frequently to remind myself that you have to be constantly vigilant. This is paramount for those of you like me that were indoctrinated in the nice-guy syndrome which is a harder habit to break than any other vices I have conquered.
there’s value in this comment. fuck the downvotes
Something something... idiot... something something... down to their level.
Agreed went back forth with my gf for years (she thinks women have it worse than anyone else on every issue) now I just agree to make her happy and save myself some valuable time and energy.
What is this? Satire or real?
Haha I wish it were a joke, all I can think about is all my wasted words and how she still believes I got my job because of some male “privilege”.
Yeah.
Nothing wrong with your gf thinking you have no value. Hold on to her cobber, no way you could find a sheila who doesn't assume you're worthless. Right?
Fair point lol I think I could cure cancer and she would probably say “well they only fund research when men are conducting it” or something stupid.
It's no point debating with individuals with a dogmatic view of the world. Whether feminist, athiest, right wingers, left wingers, black lives matter supporters, Trump/hilary supporters or religious nuts. If they are dogmatic or adamant there is no use.
We have to stop living in this fantasy world where everyone is rational and reasonable. OP I suggest to stop wasting your time with people who are not persuaded or open minded enough to see a different perspective. Not everyone values debate. Not everyone values civility. Let them continue to get upset and outraged by political issues that the majority of people don't even care about.
I'll simplify that for you: don't argue. If there is no jury and/or no panel of judges, there is no way to win. If you have a point to make, make it. If people require clarification, clarify. And leave it at that.
The only time you should go back and forth with someone is if you are baiting them to do something else.
Seeing yourself from a third person view, arguing with a child should be motivation enough to hold frame if you have some respect for yourself
Overall I agree but I think the final shot at Muslims/Jews kinda weakens the point.
If it weakens the point to you, then you have decided to take a specific viewpoint of mine and declared that since I hold a certain view- it must mean that my entire message is invalid which is a false way of determining the value of the said message.
I was anyway, speaking from first-hand experience, growing up in a Muslim family and such. Topics that even hinted that pork is no longer unclean meat to consume given historical reasoning being no longer valid and health regulations improving the quality of pork was met with instant disapproval. Why was this? Because such a matter was unnegotiable and even if believed, was an idea clearly wasn't going to be followed upon. Likewise, even if the feminist was to believe you, it would be in her best interest to state that you are incorrect and she is right.
Ok ok relax - I see your point after you spelling it out, about how it's the same sort of belief-preservation reaction in both cases.
I wasn't so much saying you were wrong; I was saying that I thought Muslim and Jewish avoidance of pork came from a completely different place than women going for feminism, so I thought it was muddying the argument. But fair enough, I haven't had the why-can't-we-eat pork discussion, it's interesting to think about how that would play out.
Why tell him to relax? He just explained himself.
Looks like you’re projecting
Fuck that, i wouldn't do it even if i was paid.
You see this on 4chan with shit like "convinced my girl of this RedPill shit, how do I convince her of this other RedPill shit?"
Entirely up to your frame, and your attractiveness dude. Arguing gets you nowhere.
I don't like their tree patting hierarchy either, "patriarchy" whatever damn hippies. Always trying to usurp the common good with their evil.
Missing in this argument is the key fact that men do not get pregnant and need to take 16 months to an indefinite amount of time off from their job.
Ha, you just described the strategy of the modern conservative when dealing with progressives. Just move along and vote crazy out of office
I have convince and shift feminist positions more than once.
The idea that woman are not capable of rational thinking that is implied here is just stupid. From my experience with my close ones I have been able to make changes on their views constantly.
Wrong. Do argue with feminists, not to convince them, or to win, but to know all the bullshit they can throw around, so you are prepared.
The feminazi discourse is not static. It evolves. They know about the red pill, they are always making new layers of bullshit over layers of bullshit.
Do not argue to the purpose of having sex or an LTR.
Guys we all know to be fair some women dont want to apply for certain jobs that have higher pay. Example carsaleperson aka carsalesman women hardly work in carsales unless they are doing car commercials aka eyecandy or helping a client sign the paperwork. Rarely do you see a woman actually work in car sales do the negotiating and making the closing sale. They are not interested. I would love to see a woman close in car sales. It would truly be gaming the game and women would be supporting real true feminism which would be helpful to society as a whole. They can negotiate sex for money as prostitutes but in general won't do a negotiation for a car sales.
It has happened to me multiple times. Although these women tend to be very young and very submissive.
This applies on Reddit, too. I made the mistake of engaging anti-Jordan Peterson posters on the Jordan Peterson subreddit, but then realised how much time and effort I was consuming in actually arguing my points, even if I and the person I was arguing against were both in good faith. I also realised how dumb it was to argue about Jordan Peterson.
That's not to say robust discussion isn't good; practising developing your own points forces you to expand and mould your thinking, so is helpful. The problem I have is finding the right place, people and topics.
I just "yeah yeah yeah, hundreds of thousands, even millions of years of human evolution doesn't mean shit. You're right, because a bunch of women and faggots came to a new consensus on these things less than a decade ago. I'm convinced! Anyways, wanna arm wrestle?" slam my beer, than walk across the bar and talk to an attractive woman that isn't a 220lb landwhale.
Y'all need to start socially ostracizing these unbearable cunts instead of being scared that you might not get your little peepee wet tonight if you dare to tell them to fuck off with their Feminacism. If enough men that they are starving to fuck kick them to the curb for voicing this toxic shit, they'll stop. I have 4 daughters, think I allow this faggotry to go on unchecked under my roof?
There's no point in trying to convince her to change her mind, but there is advantage in convincing any third party observer that she's irrational and her ideology is rotting garbage.
That said, pick your battles. The circumstances where this would come up and be worth debating are few and far between. If there's impressionable or open minded people observing the debate, intelligent and polite dissent can provoke her in to harpy mode and inoculate the observers against her ideology.
Impress her, fuck her, tell her what your opinions are and watch her suddenly have a new opinion.
Tadah
If she says shes feminist maybe just say, "oh, I'm not religious."
if you are legitimately arguing with a feminist you are doing it wrong. mock their beliefs why maintaining frame, and fuck them later if you wish. Nothing feels better than meeting a 'feminist' only to prove how much of a hypocrite she is by sucking your trump supporting dick.
Here is an example of how you respond (assuming at a bar or social event, not a work place where you might have to be PC).
Woman: "I believe in the wage gap issue"
Men: "I do too, it's a good thing"
Woman: "what!"
(any kind of response below)
Men: "You all get to live longer, its only fair"
"yea but you need to factor in how much the wife will get out of it"
"go over there and ask that guy to buy you a drink. See it evens out"
"Well duh, I am a much better worker than you"
Any of that type of aloof response will trigger both respect in you not being a yes man (women secretly hate that behavior) while keeping the conversation fun. Unless you are in the mood for a legit serious debate you should never get into actual policy. It's very easy to look like #angrywhitemale or whatever they think and put you in a box. You do NOT want to come off as an MRA, you want to come off as a smug asshole.
the majority of women don't even support feminism in the us so it shouldn't be an issue
But debating feminists and other crazies is great practice for debating men here.