~ archived since 2018 ~

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" - Milan Kundera

[deleted]

December 22, 2013

9 upvotes

/r/RedPillBooks

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Post Information

Title	"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" - Milan Kundera
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	9
Comments	16
Date	December 22, 2013 3:57 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillBooks
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/redpillbooks/comments/1tful9/the_unbearable_lightness_of_being_milan_kundera/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillBooks/the-unbearable-lightness-of-being-milan-kundera.251051 https://theredarchive.com/post/251051

Comments

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

lol.

There are four protagonists, two of whom are men, two of whom are women. One of each views the act of sex as either "Light" or "Heavy" which makes the novel inherently gender neutral in it's exploration of sexuality. Men and women are not fundamentally different and gender roles are not complementary as TRP believes. No, men and women are also not "the same", they are in fact, individuals.

Kundera is also entirely unconcerned with how people get sex, and entirely concerned with how people relate to each other through sex.

Also, any notion of "hypergamy" is completely absent from the text. The only female character to leave her partner is Sabina, and she does so not because she's found a better partner, but because she is fundamentally opposed to being held down in any sense and because she despises the commitment of a public relationship with Franz.

Plus, I thought you terpers hated anything remotely postmodern, but whatever.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for the summary.

One of each views the act of sex as either "Light" or "Heavy" which makes the novel inherently gender neutral in it's [sic] exploration of sexuality

Gender neutral in the sense that equal representation is given to the sexes, correct. And this has nothing to do with TRP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that equal concentration on both male and female sexuality somehow goes against various TRP-related concepts. I don't see this.

Men and women are not fundamentally different and gender roles are not complementary as TRP believes

I would disagree with this entirely.

Kundera is also entirely unconcerned with how people get sex, and entirely concerned with how people relate to each other through sex.

An important facet of TRP.

Also, any notion of "hypergamy" is completely absent from the text

Yet other aspects show. You see both Tereza and Sabina having no idea whatsoever what they want, and often leaving out what they want when they do know. You see Sabina applying worth to a married man, and then leaving the married man when he commits to her, when he puts his power onto her. You see Tereza and Sabina describing their attractions using traditional masculine features and identities. It is highly, highly RP. You see Freudian and perhaps Lacanian interpretations of the Mother & Father figure-- a psychological and perhaps evolutionary look into sex relations. You have Tomas balancing more than a dozen mistresses with the knowledge that if any are to know about the other the entire system falls apart. etc etc etc

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Gender neutral in the sense that equal representation is given to the sexes, correct. And this has nothing to do with TRP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be implying that equal concentration on both male and female sexuality somehow goes against various TRP-related concepts. I don't see this.

No, gender neutral in the sense that gender is a neutral factor. Both sexes are shown to have a range of different understandings of sex and not as monolithic.

I would disagree with this entirely.

An important facet of TRP.

Certainly not in an individual sense, since TRP is concerned with how men and women relate to each collectively, which the novel is not at all concerned with. Gender in a broad sense is hardly relevant to themes of the novel at all.

Yet other aspects show. You see both Tereza and Sabina having no idea whatsoever what they like, and often saying exactly what they don't want. You see Sabina applying worth to a married man, and then leaving the married man when he commits to her, when he puts his power onto her. You see Tereza and Sabina describing their attractions using traditional masculine features and identities. It is highly, highly RP.

If you have the Harper Perennial edition from 1999 could you cite a few pages? If not could you provide the part and chapter? Or at least one specific instance from memory? I'm not entirely sure what you even mean to be honest.

What Tereza wants is an acknowledgement of her individual humanity which is indicated numerous times such as in the dream in which she is walking around a pool naked with other women while being directed by Tomas and in the flashbacks to her life with her mother.

What Sabina wants is casual sex and a rejection of kitsch. A lot like Tomas really.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Both sexes are shown to have a range of different understandings of sex and not as monolithic

And yet they have similar tendencies and can be categorized still.

TRP is concerned with how men and women relate to each collectively, which the novel is not at all concerned with. Gender in a broad sense is hardly relevant to themes of the novel at all.

God, the book is obviously not ABOUT TRP. But it is a great read, and an even greater read when you take TRP into consideration.

What Tereza wants is an acknowledgement of her individual humanity which is indicated numerous times such as in the dream in which she is walking around a pool naked with other women while being directed by Tomas and in the flashbacks to her life with her mother.

Ah yes, and that's why she leaves him when she finds out he's been with other people, right? Right? No, that doesn't happen? Huh...

Sure, I can get you citations. Not at 1:30am because I think I've already proven my point. Perhaps tomorrow.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Feminists make a lot of categorical errors. I'll probably end up writing about them in a few years, because it can be really interesting...

t's not concerned with gender, and TRP is concerned with gender, therefore the two are incompatible.

Incompatible! Incomparable! Fear and Trembling is about faith and Either Or is about existence, THUS THEY ARE INCOMPATIBLE! Is this really the conclusion you draw, love? No, the telos of Kundera is not gender. Yes, the telos of TRP is gender-related. That does not mean they don't relate to each other...

And she's horribly miserable until Tomas commits to her! Is that what TRP is about, making women miserable?

I never said it made her happy, merely that it is a gender-based difference found in Kundera. Tomas would have left Tereza if she were with someone else; Tereza does not leave Tomas and barely even thinks about it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists make a lot of categorical errors. I'll probably end up writing about them in a few years, because it can be really interesting...

What categorical errors, pray tell?

Incompatible! Incomparable! Fear and Trembling is about faith and Either Or is about existence, THUS THEY ARE INCOMPATIBLE! Is this really the conclusion you draw, love? No, the telos of Kundera is not gender. Yes, the telos of TRP is gender-related. That does not mean they don't relate to each other...

Gender is an irrelevant factor. The characters are evenly divided in terms of their views on sex.

I never said it made her happy, merely that it is a gender-based difference found in Kundera. Tomas would have left Tereza if she were with someone else; Tereza does not leave Tomas and barely even thinks about it.

That's because Tomas doesn't have a history of having his humanity and self-worth devalued by an abusive family. Not because he's male. Franz fell in love with Sabina and remained in love with Sabina even after she left him, and she was an equally promiscuous character to Tomas, though infidelity is not relevant to the two character's situation so it isn't discussed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SE17Creator[M] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LinkFixerBotSnr 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SE17Creator 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link