I came across this question on Quora and found this answer. Confirms a lot of things re. Making the most of yourself in life, personal responsibility, mission, etc etc. Enjoy.
When will girls begin to notice the nice guys? Emily Payton Emily Payton, Psychology student, baby neuropsychologist, disappointment. Answered 14h ago Let me ask you a different question: When will guys begin to notice the nice girls?
Some facts about me: I’m 5′3″, with short legs and an arse so flat you could play bowls on it. My breasts are small, just like the rest of me, and they adorn a bony, birdcage chest that makes a hollow sound when you tap it. My elbows are pointy, knees knobbly and arms twiggy; I am the antithesis of thicc. My hair doesn’t shine, but rather floofs, in whatever direction it pleases. I was late to the puberty party, so my acne still hasn’t cleared up, even though I’m approaching twenty one. No matter how hard I try, I can’t seem to get my smile symmetrical, and when I do smile, my eyes (also small) shrivel up like raisins, forming cheery little squints. The only part of me that is big is my Roman nose, which sticks, beak-like, out of my undersized face, and throws the whole minuscule ensemble into disarray.
I’m not hideous, by any means, but I’m hardly the image of feminine perfection. I’m not the heterosexual-male-fantasy that I spent most of my teenage years trying to be.
I don’t get noticed a lot by men. I’ve never been asked out in the street, or hit on in a club. No one has ever used a clumsy line on me, or come up with an excuse to get my phone number. People don’t beg their friends for an introduction. I don’t get stared at, my pictures aren’t popular on social media, and my existence goes largely unnoticed.
But I would like to consider myself a nice person. I’m empathetic, understanding, and I like helping people. I’m positive, give compliments freely, and I always see the best in people.
Is it fair, then, that me, a nice girl, gets overlooked because of my bony bum and bird nose? Probably not. Am I happy about it? Not particularly.
But do I blame men for it? Absolutely not.
Do I expect some poor bloke to settle, to force themselves into a relationship, just to boost my ego? Of course not.
No one can help who they’re attracted to. Biologically, historically, and socially, people are programmed to want certain physical attributes. It’s almost impossible for a man to overcome millennia of evolution, decades of social conditioning and good ol’ peer pressure to force themselves to become attracted to someone they aren’t. Most men are going to have an image of perfection, and if given the choice between her and me, without any intervening personality info, they are going to choose her.
And why shouldn’t they? Why shouldn’t they approach the gorgeous girl in the club? The only reason they’d avoid the gorgeous girl in favour of the plain one is because they assume, based on some outdated 90′s stereotype, that all beautiful girls are bitches. Now, if the gorgeous girl was a bitch, and he knew it, then maybe I’d think less of him for choosing her, but in a club situation, where there is next-to-no chance for conversation and no way of assessing morality, he’s bound to choose the one he thinks is sexier.
In the street, he’s going to steal a look at the hotter girl, because he’s not checking her out for her personality. On Insta, he’s going to slide into the DMs of the girl with the best selfies, because there’s a chance they might click, and wouldn’t that be awesome? If he’s going to swipe right, he’s only going to do it for the girls he thinks are fit, because where would be the point in matching with a girl he doesn’t fancy, on the off-chance that she’s a great person?
No moral imperative is going to change attraction. I don’t expect it to.
So, with that in mind, why the fuck do people keep demanding that women notice nice guys?
The annoying thing is, I do notice nice guys. If they’re hot. If they’re funny, and intelligent, and they dress well and look good, then I notice them. And I do notice their kindness, and it’s a big tick in their favour — probably bigger than most other things.
But if that’s all they’re bringing to the table — they’re just nice — then what’s the point? Nice is dime a dozen; I’ve got scores of friends who are nice. What I want is exciting, attractive, purposeful. How am I meant to select amongst the nice guys without looking at other attributes? Why should I settle for just nice?
And why should I settle for just nice when I would never expect any man to do the same?
I get really pissed off seeing this question constantly come up. Not because it’s a bad question, but because it’s only ever directed one way. People act like men never get into bad relationships, never choose the wrong girl just because she’s good looking. It’s just accepted that men are going to pick pretty, sexy women, even though there are plenty of nice, ugly women. It’s accepted because everyone understands the laws of attraction, and that morality cannot be magically gleaned from appearances.
But when one man gets friendzoned, it’s like ALL women are suddenly shallow Staceys, who are deliberately ignoring good men for no other reason than to spite the Y chromosome. I wish people would get off their whiny, self-victimising high horses long enough to see the illogic of it.
The truth is, women start noticing nice guys at the same time as men start noticing nice women; when they offer more.
And if you think that’s unfair, well, it is. But that’s life. Get used to it.
Compared to others here, I find this to be a useful point of view.
It's true. Humans both select for certain traits and each gender selects for different traits.
Just as an ugly women is screwed for life (in the bad way), so is the average or below average Joe. This might also seem unfair, since an average women can get laid and get a bf. Yes, she can, while an average Joe most often can't. But her power wanes when she's 30-35. Average Joe still has the option to make something of himself at 35.
On average, women have higher power levels and a higher risk factor (pregnancy), that's why they are able to choose, but only for a shorter period of time (15ish years). An ugly women is lucky to get anyone and can't do anything about it.
A man is nothing, unless he makes himself something. It's harder, but more rewarding because you earned your success, it wasn't given to you. You clawed yourself out of a pit and defeated your lower self so often, that you are a demigod now. And it lasts, possibly even to the end of your life ((that's 30-60 years) from now).
This is just basic red-pill and it's the truth.
And it is understandable, that people here want to hate on women. I get it, I was in the anger-phase for a long time.
However women have their own struggles (pregnancy risk, rape risk, violence risk, not being taken seriously (for the rare woman that is actually responsible and accountable for herself). Us men have other advantages (like being physically stronger in almost any case naturally and some other things).
Your post is solid brother. I think the correct term for the "anger phase" is called depressive realism. Once harsh TRP truth hits it leads to a sense of cynicism but that very cynicism leads to more accurate inferences
Yes! Depressive realism sounds exactly right! And it sums up my situation right now and how I'm handling it. Hahah, it's so funny how 2 words can give you an epiphany about yourself. Thank you!
Glad it gave you clarity. Funnily enough I discovered it on the ForeverAlone subreddit. Something the feminists never address is the statistic that men are 4 times as likely to kill themselves than women. The harshest truth a man can face is his own loneliness. If you listen to Mac Miller's lyrics his loneliness killed him. Songs like Rush Hour and Someone Like You show a guy jaded by money and filling the lonely void with drugs
So very true. I think it is waaaaay better to be a man because, even for those that didn’t win the genetic lottery, happiness and success with attractive women are still attainable and within their control by simply striving toward great things. An ugly woman who becomes CEO of a large company will still struggle to find a fulfilling relationship with an attractive man.
BP AF! I gave up on that shit long ago. Now all my happiness is internally sourced, don't need a great relationship. To be a women with all the perks you get today, plus having a source of internal happiness would be the best of both worlds.
Fucking read what I wrote before you get your panties twisted up. Fulfilling relationship was in reference to the woman’s perspective because that’s the type of bullshit they at least claim to want. Notice how I didn’t say that with respect to our interactions with women? Christ dude.
And if you think ugly women receive those perks just for being a woman, then you are a fucking idiot. Dust those Cheetos off your potbelly and step out into the real world.
Much needed insight without the hate or conspiracy theories about the sisterhood out there screwing oneself out of dates and sex.
A huge problem women have is they aren’t good enough to lock down a true alpha. They get pumped and dumped and blame men when they really should be looking at why alphas don’t want to stick around because most alpha men I’ve known want a steady thing it’s just that they know they have options once the girl shows how low smv she truly is.
Bitch management, most girls can learn to be cool.
The average Joe is nothing unless he make himself something. But men also win at the genetic lotery. They may be naturally slim & muscular & tall and overall handsome and they have an inifinite suply of pussy for themselve just by showing up. I have a friend that doesn't goes to the gym and do only some sport because he enjoy it. He doesn't make any particular effort. Yet see him nacked and you see a perfect body, muscular and fit. He doesn't follow any diet or anything.
On the opposite, many women are not pretty naturally by any means but spend lot of effort to make themselve prettier. They go the hairdresser twice a month, they spend lot of time going after the right clothes that put their body in the right frame, they spend time everyday to put make up on, they wear uncomfortable shoes all the time and like us go the gym except it is quite harder for them to be fit and slim because naturally women are meant to be a bit fat to secure ressources for pregnancy.
Downvoted coz dat sounds incelish.. People just wanna believe if they just game it enough they'll have success. Lol
Didn't really get your point, but no problem. I think that's part of the core rules of reddit. Don't feel like you need to justify yourself. No issue with that man.
Ugly men and men with bad genetics are fucked too no no matter what they achieve in life. At best they can become beta bucks. I don't care what anyone says they will never get the kind of attraction out of women that a chad does.
One of the most solid truths I've heard on here is that "everything face down can be improved." If an incel puts work in on his body, throw in some plastic surgery for the face. SMV can be raised for most
And they can't? Even without surgery they would be far better off than most guys and would definitely attract some female eyes. People are just too lazy to put in the effort.
There is a lot of buff even roided dudes that have near no action because there face is shit, also maybe even plastic surgery wouldnt help or maybe u need to spend a fuckton of money on it. Which means saving the money until lets say 40. Thats just bad imo.
I would assume that's because they got no game, because I also saw the opposite for the same type of guys.
They key about lifting is not that you will get pussy guaranteed, but you will improve the chances of getting results. If your face is shit and plastic surgery is out of reach, better to be fit than fat regardless.
Let's not advocate plastic surgery because it is sure to make you mentally ill.
Edit: I might have misread your comment, I'll leave it here cause I'm not entirely sure what you mean
What I meant is that TRP advocates self improvement. Everything from the neck down can be improved through proper diet,cardio,weight lifting etc
Yet face is still vastly more important. Its not about the belly or lack of six pack, but more leaness of face (showing the jaw if there is any good) and clavicle length (shoulder to waist ratio)
An ugly man can still get jacked & get rich which will still get him pussy. Bitches will be only for his money but who cares as long as there's no commitment.
Not judging but that reads like the the life of the average man.
True. She's signalling here what she wants, though. Men ought to initiate.
If we initiate then we're running a risk of looking like creeps. Plus, those efforts don't lead to anything
it is creepy only if you are perceived as unattractive
Nice guys get frustrated because the media, Hollywood and of course women tell them that to get a girl they have to be a nice guy.
So they do all of this stuff they're told to, only to have no success with women at all while watching the chicks going for the exact opposite of what they've forced themselves to become - on the advice of those very women themselves.
Typical by the way that a woman would take this question and turn it into a rant all about - women.
I actually feel genuine, heartfelt sympathy for her. Her situation reminds my of the nice guy situation but she doesn’t have the hope of turning it around with money and personality and skill and confidence. We men can reform ourselves out of this nice guy problem, i mean that’s why we’re here. We’re here to stop listening to female bullshit and act right. But if OP was say my sister or cousin or even just a friend...I’d have no advice for her.
On the other hand I have my own problems, so...
Girls can hit the gym too you know.
Yep. There are plenty of ugly women with sexy bodies. Guarantee they are doing juuuuuust fiiiine.
Until they hit the wall that is. You can't lift away age. And these old women I see at the gym try desperately to do so.
Sure, but this isn’t about the wall.
Yep. There is plenty of ugly guys with jacked bodies. Guarantee they are doing juuuuust fiiiine.
Then why do you spend so much time here complaining about yours?...
girls can take anavar while they're at it
Dont feel bad for her, trust me, it's not as bad as she makes it seem. If she had braces, and dresses well, maybe takes on a certain niche look, she will have her pick of the lot. Maybe not the entire lot, but give me a break. Another thing, maybe if shes not a hot bitch she shouldnt be looking around at clubs where hot bitches go? Like our smv, its situational. Over half of women are fat. Shes not fat and shes 21 yr old girl. Give me a breeeeak
Bullshit.....there are TONS of guys that are looking for a girl like her but they are invisible to her because she only wants the Chad cock
Assuming she really is "not hideous, by any means" then her story just reaks of bullshit. I know 20+ stone shewhales who complain about unwanted male attention and guys with oneitis. The idea that she's never been asked out is just highly, highly unlikely. What she probably means by "men" is "the men I feel entitled to".
>Assuming she really is "not hideous, by any means" then her story just reaks of bullshit.
I'm almost certain that her story reaks BS. That is what girls do when it comes to debates. Give this story on how they are some unicorn to make a point. She's turning down the guys that she doesn't want and is mad that the star QB or the top fraternity guys in her college isn't asking her out.
I don't care what she says (keyword "says"). I saw the most basic and unattractive women get approached a million times in bars, clubs and don't even get me started on online dating. A guy who is an 8 in looks can still struggle with women compared to a girl who is a 4. Guys who are 9s and 10s will still bang 4s and 5s.
Those 4s and 5s think that just because they can get sex from the 10s that they deserve a 10 to commit to them. Anyways everyone here's know this so whatever.
I would love to see her dating profile, messages and all social media messages. I can guarantee that she has tons of guys trying to talk,bang or even date her.
This is true, there are guys that will fuck simply if they get the chance to. And hey, one of them might even be the guy for her but as you said, that's not the bigboi baller dick.
Not bullshit. The most average guys still want a pretty girl and the reserve is also true. They may settle in the end, but they would exchange their partner for a much better one if given the opportunity.
Often the nice boys and girls that are single is because they didn't accept the offers they got in the past. They ask for more than they can pretend. There isn't only girls that are like that. Mens too.
Not even close.......80% of men are sexually invisible to women.
Also, consider this. She still has to worry about the wall. I mean, it’s taking a while to turn it around for myself, I’m only just now getting it right. If I were a woman I’d be just about hitting the wall now. It’s actual a raw deal. When you’ve got your stuff together and just lovin life you can really game for another two good decades, as a man.
Now that I’m thinking about it they have to be as fickle and have as much fun and not care about a man’s feelings like they do early on. All their fun is front loaded.
Now in fairness to us men, after dealing with that through my 20’s...I want only casual easy relationships going forward. I don’t want to hear anyone nag me, ask me where I’ve been, second guess my financial choices to buy a motorcycle or whatever. You had your fun...now it’s my time.
And 50% of women invisible to men. While the number are better for women, it doesn't change much in the principle or for the bottom 25%. We all want a 7+ and may accept a 5... but if we have to settle for a 3 because we are a 3 too, that hard to shallow.
What we also forget as men is that women find only 20% of the men attractive physiscally, but that physical apparence is also far less important to them.
LOL you are either a woman or a blue-pilled simp. Register a dating app account with the most hideous women you can find image of and observe. Try putting a transvestite as well. You'd still get more matches than 80% of average blokes.
Insulting people doesn't make you right.
And you are actually agreeing to me. Be it a manor woman you would find somebody, but you think they are bellow your standard. That's it.
You shouldn't feel bad for her unless you feel bad for all people who are in the 4-5 range. She can easily go after men in her same range and easily get plenty of dates, which isn't true the other way around. She will just have to do the work because these men will not know what to do. Any man who has the smv to go after women on the street or in the club isn't looking for her, she isn't invisible, she just isn't on the primary hunting list. If all the other more attractive prey disappears a wolf will happily eat mice.
One must never forget that the "nice" guy approach is also a very valid sexual strategy.
Not everyone will be able to be powerful, dominant alphas, in fact most men won't. The only functional alternative is to display yourself as a long term provider.
This behavior is often synonymous with the archetypal nice guy.
Additionally, naturally attractive men can use the blue pill strategy without much harm. That way they stay together with their high school sweetheart and have a romantic LTR for life.
I've seen it quite a lot of times. And while they could upgrade they seemed happy with their lifes.
This is a very interesting point that is not talked about enough. I think many of the nice guys already subconsciously know this, hence a lot of their actions.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try if you have the ambition.
you say this as though there are only two modes of being, dominant Alpha male or long term provider. You are either one extreme or the other, seems you have forgotten the grey area. seems a flawed way of conceptualizing people, they tend to be complex. heuristics are helpful, but i feel in this case you're missing important nuances.
Nuance with regard to human behavior is a fait accompli, it's pointless addressing it every time one discusses general theories.
i don't think "nice guys" is being used here properly. "nice guys" are people who think they get sex in return for being a polite gentlesir, but they don't actually transgress into "nice guys" territory until they start flaming the girl because she doesn't provide the pussy. that's not being a real nice guy, that's a 2 faced flaccid shitball. there are plenty of guys who are nice to women that get laid, it's more about looks really than it is about whether you're the bad boy or a nice guy.
there are plenty of nice people that get married, have kids, and are ugly as shit when you look at them. you can't really believe that they all act like assholes and that's how they got paired up. i'm a nice guy (the real type, not the 'you stupid bitch, you're just a whore(when she turns me down)' type, and i get plenty of pussy. the real problem area are guys that pretend to be nice expecting something in return, rather than being genuinely nice.
the truth of the situation is the 'nice guys' are probably trying to bat above their average, and that's why they're getting turned down. if they were genuinely nice to this girl, and are within 2 points or whatever lookswise, they'd make a couple.
They are getting laid by women well below their own SMV
After the woman got ran through her entire college basketball team and every "stud" on dating apps and clubs. Yea ofcourse women will settle down with a "nice" guy by then.
Except this isn't really true. You're doing the same thing people outside this sub do. You're classifying every "nice" guy as some nerdy socially awkward loser. We get it, those people do exist. But, in general good dudes who have their shit together and actually try to respect women more then just someone to hookup with are the types of dudes who are getting shitted on by women. Those are the guys who really complaining and having a hard time. Those are the guys who are told ever since they been growing up to respect women, treat a lady nice, have their shit together, don't just use her for sex and women will flock to them. Those are majority of the people who found this sub.
Women are the ones telling guys that they hate dating guys who treat them poorly, use them for sex, they hate when guys push for sex within the first 2 dates, they only sleep with guys they really like, they only sleep with guys who they are in a relationship with, they want to get to know the guy more before having sex with them, they don't do ONS, and they are not the hookup type. But, these women are dating and doing the complete opposite while friendzoning or placing the good guys on the back burner as a backup plan. Your comment comes across as white knighting" and you may not even realize it.
We get it, 4chan incel losers exist who claim they are nice and they're not getting women. However, the larger population of guys that are having issues are the normal dudes with good jobs, education, is social, has hobbies, but they still struggle with women due to reasons I listed above and more importantly they do NOT escalate quick enough thanks to the advice of media and women themselves. The lady in the post is the exact problem I listed.
This is also wrong and you know it. Avg and below avg women bat above their avg. Especially in modern society due to dating apps.
TLDR: Too all you nice/good guys, watch what they say and not what they do.
I don’t think that the first two have any real effect. I can’t remember a single instance in my youth where explicitly I noticed that kind of a message from the media or Hollywood. But women? Oh, yes. I remember that message coming a lot from women.
And I think this is where a good chunk of the red pill rage that men feel comes from: because it is the object of their attention simultaneously saying that they need to behave one way to be rewarded, then in the same breath actually rewarding the exact opposite behaviour.
And while we are all responsible for our own decisions in life, not all of us have been blessed with the same toolkit for dealing with things. As such, having a subset of the least desirable men dropping clear off into wharrderp land might be undesirable, it can hardly be unexpected.
I think the theory presented in no more mr. Nice guy is pretty accurate. Notwithstanding the Hollywood influence, most men are raised exclusivity by women, to seek validation from women.
As far as media, I'd say right around 1990 is when it started to change. Even a little earlier than that you had some movies with the clueless nerd getting the prom queen. After that though you really started to see the "strong independent woman", and bumbling husband make trope really explode.
The biggest conditioner for the nice guy mentality is religion by far. Hollywood for example has movies like 50 shades of Grey that show the craving for dominance that women have, straight up truth. Or watch nymphomaniac, or Californication. Whereas in religion across the board from Zoroaster to Mahavira and Christ sex is only supposed to be confined to marriage. Everything else is lust and is taboo. Religion is the main culprit of the nice guy conditioning
That's not exactly true, the Judaeo religions have clearly defined gender roles, men being leaders and such.
I wouldn't give religion that, that is determined by evolutionary biology. Contrast a hyena and lion. Hyena's are matriarchal, the females are bigger and more aggressive, domineering. Whereas in lions which are patriarchal the males are bigger and more aggressive, domineering. Humans just happen to be patriarchal through evolution. I'm no expert on biology but variables such as testosterone in males contribute towards us males being more dominant
You don't have to give religion credit for creating gender roles but you can't say they don't reaffirm them.
The sex only through marriage part is there for a reason, you know
It helps at keeping bitches away from the cock carousel
What society managed is you could not divorse and couldn't leave your partner without being ostracized... I guess it still happened through as it was enough to move to another region as official papers were not the stuff it is today. You could just go from city to city as a musician or merchant, fuck the local women just fine and let their beta cuck of husband feed them as they were even more enforced than today to do so.
People cheated. Religion didn't prevent that and it couldn't. Sex only if married never worked effectively and was not the point but the official charade to protect children. I think it was even much more common to have to provide for children they were not even from you.
What worked is that you could not divorse your official partner and had to stay with him, including if he was a pain in the ass, cheating, drinking all the time and all. So you would endure and provide for the familly regardless.
That you were happy doing it was not really the priority.
You make a decent point but my larger point is that religion criminalizes sexuality. Lust is natural and shouldn't be demonized. Us men spread our seed like fish so perhaps in evolutionary terms if a man fucks 50+ women he is increasing his chance of passing down his lineage and genes. Biology shouldn't be moralized in my opinion. So your saying lust is bad?
Lust has always been wrong. I can only think of a few religions/moral systems that don't 'criminalize' lust.
Holster the moralizing, chief.
Yeah but that's a denial of nature. Its like saying being fat is immoral. Its not aesthetic but certainly not immoral. Some people eat excessively because the brain makes fulfilling necessities pleasurable. Sex is pleasurable because it fulfills the natural inclination to reproduce. If you say lust is wrong you are denying the nature of man. Certain characteristics of homo sapiens will never change because they are hardwired into us. Another example is killing. The U.S defense budget is $600 billion. What does that tell you? Fight or flight response calibrated for fight. My point is that your point is unnatural. Look up Nietzsche's inversion of morality too, it explains my point better
+1 for californication reference. That show is one red pill mixed in with lots of oneitis.
Yeah man Hank Moody doesn't get enough mention/love here on TRP. His game is on point. Its a nice show to watch with chicks to set a subtextual communication of sexual chemistry. Check out Nymphomaniac too. Its about women addicted to sex. I remember watching it in my frat house in college with this chick Audra. K-Closed but didn't F-Close
The hero in Christianity is Joseph. The guy who stayed with Maria even though she cheated on him and got a child. That is one of the purposes of Christianity, to make men more willing to be cucks.
Mary was a virgin you dumbass
That's one of the most common mistakes lay people make with Christianity. The original Hebrew never says Mary was a virgin. (The word was "alma", which just means young girl.) That detail was added later by Christian leaders trying to create a particular narrative.
If you really believe a virgin got pregnant, you're more gullible than you look.
I was under the impression that it was "unwed woman" or something along those lines. Agree with your general point though.
+1. Religion only ensure you are forced to provide for the children your official woman make, regardless of the real father and that you are forced to mary any woman that says she has your baby in her womb. Don't think the situation was better for mens, even beta.
The only thing going for it is that a clueless beta but from a rich familly could get a woman without really doing anything but this wouldn't mean she'd love or respect him.
Lmao bro. So true. Trump once actually tweeted that same sentiment. Have you seen Beowulf? I'm black but I have alot of respect for the old Nordic warriors. At one point during the movie, Beowulf says "The age of heroes is dead Wiglaff, the Christ God has killed it."
Because in a woman's brain, that usually does not have a great moral compass (or any) when they say be a nice guy they mean their fantasy of a nice guy (motivated,kind,stoic,direct, idk I can't think of more)
I guess they might believe themselves that we understand their fantasy of a nice guy by saying "be a nice guy"
TLDR; don't try to logic what women say, ever.
Emily isn't as bad looking as she makes herself out to be: https://www.quora.com/profile/Emily-Payton-20 . I find it hard to believe she's not getting hit on. That, and she's clearly very smart. Definitely a winner in my book.
By not getting hit on, she really mean's not getting hit on by the guys she desire. The low value males that approach or try and hit on her are completely invisible and don't even register.
exactly this, when a woman says she want roses an chocolates, she's not waiting for YOU to do it, she expects Chad or Tyrone to do it.
I knew it. She was being way too critical for all that to actually have been true. If she actually thought she was that ugly, she would likely be too insecure to talk about it like that.
Haha yeah this whole post reeks of virtue signaling bs
She's very tidy and definitely smart.
She is thin with all the fat women out there she is basically a 10
Especially in Britain. She's probably what they'd call an English Rose.
If an average women is thin, feminine, cooks, cleans, no kids, no trail of cocks, no tats, no nosering, wears makeup and dresses then she'll usually be in the top 25%, barring any deformities. And in the top 5% for men looking to start a family. This is very achievable.
Yea this is absurd. What is she talking about? Another delusional mentally ill woman.
How can you tell from the miniscule pic?
This. I can’t even see the person in that picture.
Edit; ok someone linked a pic farther down. She seems very average to me (this is clearly the best 1/100 pictures she took that hide her worst parts). Still, I’m sure it’s not hard for her to get a guy.
If she’s bitching now, you can easily see that in 15 years she’ll really have something to whine about.
i clicked on the profile .. the pic got bigger
Yeah, this chick is at least a 7 in my book. There's something else going on, clearly. Maybe she isn't feminine in her dress or demeanor. Maybe there are no men who are stepping up. She tells us what she wants in the post! She wants to be surprised and for a man to lead. On the other hand, her profile description rings some alarm bells. "Waste of space" and "disappointment" are false humility.
From her writing she is too smart and a nerd , for being 21.
Also she's not ugly. So, if nobody ever hit on her:
1) She's been sheltered all her life
2) She's extremely introverted and lived oatrasized
3) She's autistic and doesn't cue guys to pick her up or doesn't realize when guys are picking her up
Probably a combination of all 3
Never thought of the autism angle. Was reading some of her articles and the content is pretty decent. I think that I will side with some of the others here and say that her post lacks self awareness (she likely is hit on daily), and there is at least one Brit beta who is hoping she will some day notice him. Still, I think this is a good example of do what they show, not what they say. Get a wardrobe that doesn't consist solely of t-shirt and jeans, and take the initiative. They want to be chased.
I can't find any good resolution picture of her. I only see her profile pic. Are you guys looking at something else?
she changed her picture since I posted that. sorry. Take my word for it though. She isn't unattractive
Well, she is bony/skinny with a huge nose. On the 1-10 scale, I'd give her a 5. Not the best looking. Y'all must have pretty low standards.
Even if shes a 5, which for me shes average yeah, shes thin shes smart and young. Def getting hit on.
I've seen her photo courtesy of another poster and she is exceptionally pretty. She also seems smart. She's basically most men's dream girl.
And in the paragraph about nice giys she basically admitted that she has high standards. Hot, smart and interesting and dresses well. She is looking for the top 10% of 10/10 men.
I bet she gets hit on by men constantly. She probably doesn't register them as getting hit on just "making conversation" and probably because these men aren't the 10/10s she wants.
Ironically she is exactly the type of girl who doesn't notice "nice guys".
I continue to be surprised by the female brain’s endless capacity for delusion. I just can’t even comprehend how she should write this article.
Where did you see the photos? I went to the profile linked but it looks like the only photo there is for ants.
It used to be a different photo of her face.
I think this is besides the point, everything she is saying about nice guys and nice girls is true, but the difference is there is nobody telling girls to "just be yourself" and that eventually someone will appreciate you for you. As much as feminists hate it, society is quite honest with women about attraction, lots of women resent it and call it oppressive, but no one can claim they aren't hammered home by culture that their looks are very important with multi billion dollar primarily female targeted fashion, fad dieting, and cosmetics industries dedicated to proving otherwise. Almost nobody is telling a girl that she can be fat, ugly and poorly dressed and still get Chad.
This self-righteous Quora post essentially says what The Red Pill has always said:
Be attractive.
Once you're attractive, the rest doesn't matter so much. If you're attractive AND nice, women will think it's great that you're nice. But if you're unattractive and nice, women will think you're an entitled loser if you expect niceness to lead to sex or a relationship, and think it's creepy as shit if you're a little too nice.
If you're attractive and an asshole, women will still think you're funny, charming, and better yet, maybe even take you home for casual sex since you're unsuitable for a relationship on account of being an asshole. If you're unattractive and an asshole, you're just an asshole.
Long story short, be attractive always. Be nice maybe, if you wanna. Or not. Doesn't matter.
Just be born with good genetics bro
This guy ^ gets it.
Nobody talks about genetical or physicall attractivness here. I mean when u lift dress fitting and fashionwise and take care of ur skin, posture and hair, face still remains out of bones and incels have it right.
I did improve my body, clothes and hairstyle. When i was an asshole (wannabe alpha) i was just called rude, asshole and ignored. But, hey maybe i just didnt held frame enough, right? Just lol
you probably went autistic as i did at first, you need to calibrate your wnb alpha behaviour after some time spent practising it
Nah i didnt went autistic, no more than 'true' alphas
Even with all her flaws (let's say she is bottom 20% look-wise), if she posts on Tinder, she will have 20 guys willing to fuck her the same day. That's absolutely not the case even for an average-looking guy, let alone bottom 20%.
if you check out the second Quora link she clearly states she's "A girl who dates girls" so something is amiss. I suspect bullshit somewhere.
She's not anywhere near the bottom.
From a link further up the page:
https://www.quora.com/profile/Emily-Payton-20
Because girls don't give a shit about guys who want to fuck them. They want a relationship, whereas guys are glad to get either.
The difference between this and the men’s version is that men aren’t lying about what we want.
For the most part, it doesn’t really matter how nice or mean a girl is. If she’s hot, we want her, and women know that from the very beginning. As a result they’re raised their whole lives with that idea in mind and base a lot of their choices around that idea.
For men though.... women constantly push the idea that it doesn’t matter how a guy looks as much as how nice he is. Really what matters is status. How nice a man is plays almost no part in relationship potential, but from a very young age we’re told that the most important thing is to be nice and respectful. 90% of women don’t give a shit how nice or respectful a man is to her. Women constantly date men that don’t respect them and aren’t nice to them, and if they do date men who respect and are nice to them, they walk all over them. Because of this around our teenage years and earl 20’s, men have to undo every teaching about women that we have learned throughout our youth. That is a very frustrating realization to come to for most people, and in order to recover from that constant lying communities like TRP arise.
The difference is not that both men and women don’t care about how nice someone is: it’s that women pretend to take the high horse route and flat out lie about it. If women were just honest from the beginning, men would spend more time elevating their status instead of just being a nice person to her. Nice men can get girlfriends absolutely, but whether they’re nice or not plays almost no factor in the case of their girlfriends at all.
Women want to brag. They want to say “oh my man is an athlete” “my man does cyber security” “my man runs his own business” “my man has a 6 pack” “my man makes 6 figures” etc. Women NEVER talk about how nice a man is when they describe him to their girlfriends, unless they’re already together and he got flowers or something stupid like that.
But if you ever ask a woman what she wants in a man? “I just really want a nice guy” which is a complete lie.
Write on brother, you hit the nail on the head.
It's been said before in this discussion, but I don't think she understands.
It's not that men in our culture are angry because women won't fuck "nice guys", it's because we've been socialized from a young age to be nice guys and told that's what women want...by women. Once we're old enough to realize how wrong that is, the psychological damage has already been done.
I do approach, it's the hardest thing I've ever done. When I see a cute girl in public, I hate entering into her space, taking up her time, interrupting what she's doing, making her uncomfortable, and God forbid asking for her phone number. I have the most beta mentality in the universe and trying to undo decades of brainwashing is by far the hardest and most emotionally challenging thing I've ever done. I'm perfectly aware that most men will never have the courage or ability to do it. We aren't just raised to be beta nice guy cucks, it's reinforced on a daily basis.
You're right. But the red pillers who digested the pill fully are already over that petty shit.
True, hotness is most important for both sexes. To women, hot + funny > funny, but funny - hot = 0. Funny without hotness makes a man just an entertainer to women.
Intelligence means nothing to women except for what money that intelligence can bring in. This is why women don't consider theoretical physicists to be worthy of reproduction. An inventor millionaire, however, is a different story.
Well dress is a proxy for money and an influence on hotness.
To men, hot + nice > hot + mean. To women, hot + nice < hot + mean. That's the difference. Niceness is a proxy for low status and low options. If a guy is desired by many women, she expects him to be somewhat mean and rarely nice as being nice is an attempt to get people to like you. You don't need to make that attempt if people already like you.
This sets up a dilemma. In order to get the woman, the man must not be a nice guy. In order to be a good husband, he has to be a nice guy. He can't throw a switch to alternate between the two because you could become what you do. Thus, almost all marriages are doomed to fail today. The optimal strategy is to just be a little mean, once in a while nice, and pursue only short-term relations.
I don’t agree. The theoretical physicist doesn’t get laid bc they are stereotypically nerdy, scrawny and into video games. If the theoretical physicist was 6’3, ripped, surfed and bagged a few hundred thousand a year, then their SMV would be through the roof and women would be screaming from the mountaintop for him
I.e., the physicist isn't hot and hot is what matters. Intelligence means nothing to women except for what money that intelligence can bring in. Nerdy, scrawny intelligent men will get laid if they are a tech billionaire like Elon Musk.
Your example confirms what I said.
hot + smart = hot = laid
hot + dumb = hot = laid
hot + nice < hot < hot + mean, but all three get you laid
ugly + smart - money = no laid
ugly + smart + money = laid
Ergo, smart is irrelevant except if it brings in money. Women do not value intelligence at all. Women value money and sometimes intelligence leads to money.
Poor thing she wasn’t gifted in the looks department but got good stuff in the smarts department. Lots of things we can learn from this.
Interestingly, her contempt for self-victimism and her description with a balanced sense of justice makes her psychologically attractive to me, but... as a friend.
Hands down I’d have a coffee to chat of intellectual content with her and very likely include her in a circle of friends attracted by intellectual affinity (not the one you’d go out chase girls).
I think she made a great point to help nice men understand why they can’t trigger sexual attraction on girls by “being nice harder”.
For a man, by just being playfully arrogant and sexualizing conversations, they will solve A LOT but for a poor looking girl it’s harder. They also improve significantly when women lift and become fit but mostly won’t because is a lot of effort.
Honestly I agree. And at least coming from me, saying I'd be interested in someone's friendship is one of the highest compliments I can give.
There are WAY more people I'd fuck or even date than be friends with. Romance is ephemeral. Friendship should be forever.
True!
There are shallow friendships too that are ephemeral too. Those also can be positive and have their place but when the values are deeply resonating, then the friendship goes as deep and unconstrained by time as that does
She's perfectly fine in the looks dept, someone linked her quora profile further up. I think she was just fishing for compliments from the blue pilled lurkers.
Oh, that one of my suspicions. It can easily be the case. Women can be intellectual attention whores as much as “look at my ass” attention whores.
I know of a case of a post wall woman that calls herself “libertarian” but all she does is to inject progressive feminist ideas in a very subtle way inside a libertarian intellectual circle. And she is somehow successful 🤦🏻♂️
I don't think she's even an intellectual attention whore, she's just a plain old looks attention whore. She's posting negative comments about her own looks so that simps say "oh no you're beautiful", "I wish you were my girlfriend" etc 🤢
Haha, happens in pretty much much all ideological circles, unfortunately. Where there are thirsty betas, women will always be successful.
This doesn't work as well as for men by far. Most men are ok if a girl isn't fat. They don't require slim or muscular. Second girls are programmed to have more fat to secure resources for the baby. Third men love girls with curves and being fatter give you more curves.
That girl is uterly flat and small. I think breast surgery is the way to go for her, by far.
Well, fat is part of the curves, right? muscle is what gives those curves the right shape.
A plate I stopped spinning was face really pretty and not fat, but naked was not totally bad but meh... so I lost drive for her
I looked at Emily thanks to the courtesy of someone who posted her Quora profile here. She is not ugly. Not by a long shot. She obviously gets hit on and chased BUT by people who are invisible to her. Invisible to her because she wants the 8-10/10 to be hitting on her to stroke her ego. She compares that with men in the same situation where it is actually NOT same at all. For men, being anything under 6 is like invisible to EVERYONE. Except the rare case of 1-2/10, they are invisible to ALL women. I am no woman hater by ant stretch but to me her post is screaming " HEY CHADS, LOOK AT ME AS WELL!"
In simpler terms the goal is to be : Exiting, Attractive and Purposeful.
That chick is 6-7 She's just fucking around. If she goes on Tinder, I'm pretty sure even Chad's will be willing to give her a pounding atleast once.
But an avg Joe? Sorry bro, you better go to Thailand.
TL DR lots of guys are nice but only a few guys are hot. Be hot.
Women don't need to be red pilled, they already are.
I disagree - the woman who wrote this is an edge case, not the norm.
I agree. Most of women are brainwashed and encouraged to abuse of their hypergamy, since there are less constraints now than ever in history for a woman. Now they don't give a fuck about anything. They do something close of a free will.
I must admit, This was a well constructed and well written piece by the individual. real or not I could care less... but in terms of understanding the point of view? well put together... none the less... REDPILL mentality must go on... Gentlemen... continue to evolve and stay savages.
So her implication is that being nice is still important (just not the only factor). This still misses the mark with guys, because being "nice" is exactly what gets them no where. To a guy, being nice means being submissive. But that's not the "nice" that women want. The "nice" that they want is simply this: respecting others' rights to do what they want. Beyond that, you don't submit to shit. You do what YOU want. That's where the "purposeful" part comes from.
I generally agree with her and all of this is fine if marriage still existed.
The point is that since marriage is something you can cheat on and leave without repercussion then the grass will always be greener on the other side and why wouldn't women continuously play the "I get to pick" game until they're 50+ and everything is fucked.
Women should pick. Once. Then they should be stuck with that decision just like men should be stuck with it because their children are for sure stuck with them as parents and splitting up doesn't change that.
People who shrink the one core responsibility on them for the continuation of the human race (and locally, your family) are terrible people and will inevitably exterminate themselves.
What bothers me is that it's undoubtable that these creatures will take some of us with them as they collapse under the weight of their irresponsibility and sin.
Yeah, she ain't wrong on that gotta give it to her she made a strong point.
isn’t it common knowledge that being nice ain’t enough?
i thought only people around 10-20 would think that way.
Overcoming the beast's curse.
So she said it just nature. She is ugly and gets the same treatment as men (I don't agree because she is a woman and if you care of your self you always can find a beta male but she wants a beter male ) I don't think so beacuse a lot of men since childhood are deceived in believing women are light beings and told to care for them. Women otherwise are told do whatever your vagina dictates and don't care about consequences.
A lot of women take advantage of men because of the desinformation. I am in favor of freedom of choice but with full information of the consequencese. And of course a egalitarian legisltaion.
"I’ve never been asked out in the street, or hit on in a club. No one has ever used a clumsy line on me, or come up with an excuse to get my phone number."
For the overwhelming majority of men, those days of cold approaches are long gone for even the most attractive women. Men have been ruthlessly shamed for doing it for decades. We've been the butt of jokes for making clumsy approaches on TV shows, movies, books, commercials... Likewise 'dating', in the traditional ways that women so want, gone. We're equal now, in every sense of the word. If you want a man, try being proactive.
So answering her question why men are confused that looks matter: it's because women say all the time that looks doesn't matter.
It's simple:
Men's value depends mostly on his effort. Women's value depends on luck and time (being young).
There's no red-pill for women. Women can't do anything to improve their value except wearing makeup.
It's a tragedy for them.
it has some truth in it, but it's fundamentally wrong: an average man will happily fuck an average girl, but an average girl will most of the time shoot for the top 10% and turn down the rest of them
Not going to lie. I stopped reading and just started skimming, once she was done complaining about how it's as hard for her to get a date as it is for a guy who's a bit above average to get a date.
Women are always the victim no matter what
So... Be a Chad. Okay. Thanks for that. Dumb bitch. Hopefully she's making chad a sandwich after riding is pole all night and drinking is cum. That's her place after all.
And THAT'S WHAT SHE WANTS.
With Chad.
The answer to this is simple, RELIGION. Look up Brahmacharya, celibacy promoted in the East by Mahavira(Jainism) and Buddha. In the west we have Jesus and Christianity. Matthew 5:28 " But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." What are the facts? We are homo sapiens, our brains make us the smartest animal on the planet. There is nothing wrong with the sexual drive but religion makes it a taboo. The nice guy has his origins in the prophets. Even Zoroaster said lust attracts demons. Thats the root of the nice guy problem. You think during the Paleolithic age before religion men were beta? Fuck no, they were hunters with no inhibition regarding pussy most probably.
Eh, idk man. Brahmacharis are some of the most red-pilled individuals out there. They are literally withholding their sex drive as a sacrifice for the truth. And in most cases, they turn out to be incredibly successful with women when they transition out of it to worldly life.
I hear you 100% bro. My brother is deep into Jiu-Jitsu and is a Yogi. I don't know man, to be honest I'm just a student of life
The goal of life is to be the perfect student. Then the perfect teacher will manifest :)
I agree man. Francis Bacon coined the term "Knowledge is Power" and I agree with that. When I was locked up I came across a lot of guys who just seemed institutionalized through ignorance. The Druze of Israel have a term for it "Daresah". Those who study
The problem with most nice guys is that they bombard you with their "niceness" to the point you feel, like, you owe them something without your consent. And it's usually true, you feel uneasy around too nice guy, fear that when you firmly say "no" to him, he will get offended. And he usually does, which confirms that your fear was true and his "niceness" wasn't actually genuine.
You gotta be humorous tongue-in-cheek jerk with occasional acts of kindness every now and then. Both with women and men.
This is the closest I've ever seen a woman coming to taking the redpill. She lays it all out no bullshit. If you're a nice guy so what? She clearly states that all guys act nice and think that's what's going to get them laid, she wants to know what else do you bring to the table. It's the exact thing we say about women, yeah you're good looking but what else you got? Can you behave, be pleasant?
well put. I think people have a tendency towards "archetypes," and the "lover" looms large. When something is most important to us emotionally (like finding a mate), we tend to revert towards a more primitive part of the brain-maybe more limbic. So when one's heart is broken by someone of the opposite sex, the recoil in their brain will revert to a primitive one size fits all response where all women or men of a certain age are now assholes or jerks or users. As a possibly overstretched example, consider people being heated to death in the back of a semi trailer (as happened in afghanistan a time or two). They were beating the hell out of each other from the stress.
Whew, I can be the asshole I love to be.
a 'nice', ugly girl will cheat on you given the right circumstances. so would a nice, pretty girl under the right circumstances.
women don't like men being 'nice' to them. you might say you like nice guys, but your definition of a nice guy is completely different to what in actual reality, is a nice guy.
the only reason a nice 'ugly girl' might actually be attracted to a nice guy as opposed to Chad is because she has no other options.
One immediately noticed flaw: dudes don't cackle about where all the nice chicks are, whereas the women do. This woman is full of shit. She's trying to make the men into hypocritical incels, to validate herself.
The difference here is that men can do far more to increase their attractiveness and keep it up for decades with the right lifestyle.
Wake up are realise that being 'nice' does not equal sexual attraction. It's not unfair, it's just the truth. No reason why 'nice' should equal sexual attraction. Why in the fuck would it?
'The last guys/girls you were attracted to didn't work out, and weren't always nice. Well, I'm different and always nice. Fuck me, please'.
But there is the rub, YOU'RE DIFFERENT TO WHO THEY'RE ATTRACTED TO. Rocket science it is not.
This.
Look, it sucks that a lot of us have been overlooked by the pretty, popular girls in high school and college. We played nice bc we thought that’s what girls wanted when they really wanted the tall, ambitious, sexy football player.
All you can do after the red pill is IMPROVE. Maybe you’ll bag the 10s but probably you won’t. But now that you know the rules of the game, you can break out of the habit of being a nice guy bc it simply doesn’t work.
You are not entitled and women should not throw themselves at you unless you’re worth a damn. Be more than nice.
Hugely depends on your attitude more than your looks and also if you're less attractive maybe you can put in a bit more effort into approaching.
Again, you want the superficial attention of social media and othet validation instead of a relationship.
On another note, less attractive girls in my experience are way more vicious while rejecting because they think you're fucking with them when you hit on them. Low self esteem.
That could be the reason people don't approach.
Funny thing is how society says men have to do the approaching. If this chick was more flirty with guys and took initiative she would be getting dicked down no doubt.
Gets no attention: blames men
Except she specifically said that, no, she doesn't blame them. I mean, she outright said it.
The point is that she just assumes it is because of her physical attributes.
The first part of the post is complaining about her body ffs
That's a fair point, actually
You edited her text to make the opposite point of what she said in the next 4 sentences.
She has a good point. We are a superficial species though. Nobody gives a fuck about inner beauty for the most part. Think of the high value man like CR7. Drives a sports car, is tall,wearing rolex watches,lives in a mansion. We judge by physicality which is external. The internal attributes aren't appreciated compared to the external