What do you think of Jordan Peterson's response to the question "why do I find small talk boring?" posted on Quora?

LowCreddit · 2019-09-18T19:42:39+00:00

I had a lot of trouble with small talk and the like. It took me years to get to the point where I could navigate socially with strangers competently. It is easily the most important skill you can have, and a lot of people ignore it. A lot of people will get anxious and retreat to either a comfortable place, person, or today a smartphone.

I have never felt that way about awkward people, so I think Peterson's example is a bit harsh. He's still on point though. No one thinks small talk is brainstorming particle physics or moral philosophy. It is a way to get comfortable and maybe tease out topics for actual discussion. If you can't understand that, you need to work on your basic social skills.

philomexa · 2019-09-18T19:54:49+00:00

I normally don't like daddy lobster, but that was pretty savage and on point.

philomexa · 2019-09-18T19:58:51+00:00

I don't usually like JP but I think he's spot on here.

I'm a pretty typical INTP female who struggled with social flow, especially among other women, when I was young. I was def at risk of going down the whole "I'm just too clever and deep! That's why I hate small talk!" hole until an exuberant ENFP decided I was her bff and dragged me out into the real world. Also lots of MDMA and acid in my late teens.

It comes naturally to some people, and others, like me, have to learn it. The issue is when kids refuse to admit it's a shortcoming, and decide that it's everyone else who's defective. People don't see you at smart, they see you as boring.

tnais · 2019-09-18T19:37:48+00:00

I mostly agree. Small talk demonstrates whether or not you possess a baseline level of social intelligence. If you’re bad at making small talk, this is a critical life skill that you need to teach yourself! It benefits your career, dating life, and day-to-day life in general.

sniper1905 · 2019-09-18T21:31:19+00:00

As an INTJ male, I certainly agree. Learning to actually listen to people without waiting to chime in is probably one of the most effective skills in building everyday relationships. The good news is all we really have to do is chill and open our ears.

BeIatrix · 2019-09-18T19:34:37+00:00

what is there not to agree on, people will tell you weird, complex, certainlly not boring things if you listen, and while I can't say about myself that I never dissmis anyone, or that I'm not an asshole, I can definetlly tell that whenever I dismissed someone I regreted it afterwards. So be open to small talk as it is the precursor of verry intersting stories and things people might share. I do come off as an awkard guy to most people as I plunge deep at the start of a conversation but I'm currently tryin' to mitigate that

peterlongc · 2019-09-18T21:42:52+00:00

absolutely true. "you are how you see the world" is very often true and everyone should consider it deeply.

-if you think most people are assholes; guess what? you're the asshole. think everyone only cares about sex? it's you that only cares about sex. everyone's greedy? it's you. can't trust anyone else? you're the one who's not to be trusted... on and on [some people avoid this style of projection entirely of course, but it's very common]

this type of hypocrisy is easy for everyone to see when they look at extreme members of the opposite political side.

goatismycopilot · 2019-09-18T20:16:57+00:00

I can understand disliking small talk, I don't get why it is such a burden for some people and it causes them this giant storm of contempt. Small talk is not complicated really if you are with stranger you either say something nice/complimentary to them or comment on the situation that you are in together. I am one of those super generic looking people who either looks familiar or I make them comfortable somehow so strangers say shit to me all the time. I find it fascinating that there are people who think they are too important to bother developing such a basic unit skill. Now I live in a friendly part of the country but I am from a place Southern Ontario that has a reputation for being more reserved ( not Toronto ) and it really is not. People who dislike small talk AND make no effort because it is somehow beneath them have something really wrong with them. Either they are aware of it but just struggle and I feel empathy for that or they just look down on others and cannot self reflect.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-09-18T20:54:01+00:00

i am an intj and while i personally have little patience for small talk or desire to engage in it, i was ruthlessly oppressed by a gregarious ENFJ mother into learning how to be socially normal when i have to

the INTJ sub is intolerable, dont go there.

Polojames123 · 2019-09-19T00:16:45+00:00

People that can't expound upon 'small talk' are usually people that are insanely insecure, stupid, 'echo chamber types', that need to be or feel 'right' to feel good about their lack of accomplishments.

I used to work at a very high-end club in L.A., dealt with the really wealthy, and rich types.

They would due as Jordan Peterson said, say a 'quip' here or there, but I'm well read, and make sure I can speak about 'anything', then we'd have these deep conversations about the economics of Romania, or something obscure, and they'd tip the fuck out of me...

But my co-workers, were stupid, glum, didn't say much, but just 'what do you need?' and were shocked I made about 6 times what they did in a night (they make 80, I made $620), it was common as f*ck I made so much money people got jealous, claimed I was selling drugs etc.. Nope, I just love conversation.

I love new perspectives, I love hearing a person's true thoughts, and since I'm not a fucking "chatty patty' with information, and I don't tell people's secrets, and I make sure to keep confidentiality, I make a lot of friends of various ages, but mainly older successful people.

Point being, no one cares snowflake, learn about the world, to smile, talk, and a joke... Everyone is in the same race, ad it sucks, for them, not just for you.

Jordan Peterson was spot on.

[deleted] · 2019-09-18T21:26:26+00:00

Alcohol makes it a lot easier

RandomAttackHelpMe · 2019-09-18T23:31:08+00:00

My experience with small talk has been, it's always been about stupid shit I don't give a flying fuck about and most of the people engaging in it are actually making it be all about them rather than it being about a mutual one on one thing.

[deleted] · 2019-09-19T01:47:59+00:00

Lol so basically there are no boring people? Or if you dare think small talk with a person is boring you're the one who is boring? ... cool story

CainPrice · 2019-09-19T01:55:30+00:00

Peterson is on target here.

Engaging people in small-talk is like going to the gym then dressing in an outfit that looks good on you, but for your social skills.

The first hurdle when you meet people, men or women, is that you can't look weird. You have to at least be average-looking, not have an absolutely shitty body, you have to have decent hair/grooming, and dress okay.

Nobody actually wants to date you or be your friend because of your taste in shirts or because of the size of your quads. They want to be around you because you pass the first test of looking like you are supposed to look.

Small-talk is the second hurdle. You have to not be socially weird. You have to demonstrate your social muscles the same way your gym time and your outfit are demonstrating your physical muscles. It's not about what you talk about. You're not even really looking for shared interests or super-deep and interesting conversational topics. You're just demonstrating your social skills by successfully engaging in passable small-talk.

If you can't pass both of those hurdles, not only do you not get laid or get dates, but you also struggle with friends and professionally.

OldManWiggins · 2019-09-19T05:25:43+00:00

Hi ENFP and Meetup junkie here. My advice is to just skip the small talk and get right to the meat as soon as possible. Starting with what you do and where you are from is pretty standard. The real skill is doing word association to branch to an interesting topic from there. In this sense JP is correct, you both should be dropping hints during this part to "broaden the conversation".

Examples from a meetup I went to tonight:

Person one: Woman says she is from Wisconsin. We talk about cheese. She says she isn’t about that life anymore due to her veganism. Boom! We talking about the ethical treatment of animals.

Person two: We started talking about how rich the neighborhood is. Says she knows the dude who runs the place next door. I say that’s at least a $200k job. She says $700K. I say money doesn’t matter after 100K. She says actually the studies say $80K. Boom! We are talking about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and how that applies to her home country of Brazil and how her American children shouldn’t judge Brazil so harshly.

Person three: Dude finds out I visit a wild bar. I say I have committed all the blasphemies, and I ask if he believes in God. He says he is mystic and says that both the words for angel and demon mean messenger. They are his messengers. And now we are talking about religion.

Person Four: He removed tree stumps for a living. Usually I say good conversation is about objects and great conversation is about people. But tree stump removal was pretty interesting. Like seriously do you always have to fully remove the stump? Will it grow back or will it just turn to a dead piece of wood like the wood in your house?

So yeah if small talk is boring just talk about what you want. Also curious if my examples qualify as valid examples of transitioning from small talk to deep conversation. I might not be entirely sure of what people mean by deep conversations.

ontherailstoday · 2019-09-18T22:31:38+00:00

What I find amusing is that women can say that sort of thing and have been saying that sort of thing over and over but guys (and it is almost always guys) only listen when they hear it from a guy with higher status than them.

throwawayemotions34 · 2019-09-18T23:01:38+00:00

This is spot on.

I am a very introverted person, I dislike social settings so I got over this by mastering small talk. In turn, many people who don't know me think I am outgoing and personable and won't believe the anxiety I feel before I get there. It has become a tool I mastered once I understood the importance of it; dating wise, relationship wise, job wise, everything.

Let me tell you. This was again, one of the biggest problems I had with my ex. He did not want to meet my friends or come to family functions because *he hated small talk* This turned me off. It made me feel exactly like JP said - That he felt he was "above" it, it didn't interest him, there was nothing meaningful to say therefore he won't talk or engage. I understood that in lets say the grocery store or getting gas - but meeting your gf's people... that was a huge incompatibly ESP since I myself am not comfortable but I UNDERSTOOD why it was needed and went to a different country to meet his family. It was like talking to a brick wall with him.

When I started to observe him silently in social aspects - he had 0 emotional intelligence (which leaked into our relationship) Immaturity was at its peak and he was extremely awkward and inappropriate at times. I tried to gently teach him, but it was no use. He was 29 with the mindset of no small talk needed - which came off very arrogant and egocentric. I couldn't do much.

SO FROM EXPERIENCE, I AGREE.

MisterJose · 2019-09-20T04:12:21+00:00

Even by Jordan's definition here, small talk is something you put effort into doing. So the question becomes: Why put in the effort?

I'm someone who used to have lots of social anxiety, and desperately wanted to be liked by everyone. I put tons of effort into conversations, acting engaged and like the people were super-interesting, trying to be entertaining, trying to fit in, etc.

...and none of it mattered. None of it. Not one single moment of all that effort paid off. Most of the people I did it with I never saw again. No girls fucked me because of it. Even my friends, my supposed friends, basically abandoned me at one point in my life. All that effort, all that trying, all that nervousness, and none of it had a point. I could have done anything I wanted; said anything I wanted, and the worst thing that could have happened would have been what happened anyway.

So, I meet someone new, and they engage in some conversation where I'm thinking, "Oh my God who the hell cares?" I could be chummy with them, and for doing that I'll get...nothing. Or I could put minimal effort into it, and also get nothing. Given those two things, why do the first one?

slytherlune · 2019-09-18T23:28:15+00:00

[clutches chest] My God. The day has come. I agree with Jordan Peterson about something.

I never have believed too strongly in Myers-Briggs typing, given how easily I can change my result on the test (actually, I'm not sure I can score the same way twice). But I used to be pretty down on small talk until I realized that was pretentious AF and not going to help me make friends. Nerds and nerdettes, we have to come off our high horses.

findingfemininity · 2019-09-18T19:59:48+00:00

Idk enough about MBTI to know if that part of your response is correct but I otherwise agree with Jordan Peterson. I also don't know where some people get that high IQ = bad at small talk. I would say the most successful people I know also understand how to navigate social situations. Social awareness is a form of intelligence too. Not being able to engage in small talk doesn't mean someone is smart, it means they're either autistic or were badly socialized as children.

katymarx · 2019-09-18T23:33:35+00:00

Love it, real talk.

RandomAttackHelpMe · 2019-09-19T00:00:34+00:00

I don't get the anti-sarcasm thing. I can do things without being sarcastic, but I have a sarcastic side. Sometimes it comes out.

Willow-girl · 2019-09-19T03:27:58+00:00

I can talk to anyone, anywhere, about anything. Used to love being a reporter and picking people's brains. Learned so much about so many things I probably never would have delved into otherwise! It was a better education than anything I received in college.

Peterson is spot-on. People who can't make small talk come across as awkward and weird.

Dunuk419 · 2019-09-19T10:18:36+00:00

INTJ here A small talk makes sense to me only when you see a goal from conversation. It does not have to anything big, for example just a name of some person I want to know etc. I don't seem to have problems to engage with people interested in same things as I am. I can talk for hours about one topic. I am agnostic, but I bond better with religious people, because as a person interested in mythology and philosophy I am curious about their believes despite they can be the biggest "normies" of the group (religious people are rare thing in Czech Republic). But when it comes to "normal" people, they don't have anything valuable with them. I don't really care about them being drunk, their job or this stuff.

philomexa · 2019-09-18T19:38:16+00:00

his advice is sound but (obligatory but). Nowadays both guys and girls, well, mostly girls, do not have anything of value to say about anything. Their information is anything that is consumed through social media but rarely does it involve careful reading of books for example or some interesting experience. Most people, young people that is, talk about how they got drunk last week and what happened to Patrick and Stacey etc. But for bigger topics they do not have an opinion. It's all gossip and shit.

So I agree with Peterson, any person should be able to handle small talk no matter how retarded it is. But nobody has an obligation to pretend they enjoy it or to prolong it if it doesn't lead anywhere (in terms of relationships - sex). I learned to small talk, it was hard, but I can handle it in most situations. Because really, the topics are so easy to digest that's laughable.

rus9384 · 2019-09-18T20:09:55+00:00

If Jordan Peterson heard that you ever believed in the myers-briggs instrument,

I am pretty sure he would only sigh.

^{Seriously people, it has zero scientific weight, the few good things about it were transferred to the Big 5 scale and its new versions since I was born. It is dead, It has been dead for 20 years.}

MrHerbSherman · 2019-09-18T20:11:59+00:00

I’ll say one thing is that many people , no matter how close I get to them, will not be capable of having the sort of discussions I care to have. It’s whatever they probably think all the theorizing and shit that I like to do is weird as fuck.

I don’t mind connecting with people on a simpler level, I don’t care about only connecting about superficial topics or hobbies or music or whatever, it’s just, I mean obviously I like it better when I can really engage with someone and bounce more developed ideas off them and know that they have meaningful input

rus9384 · 2019-09-18T22:46:22+00:00

I don't get Peterson's answer.

I do find small talk boring, usually. Unless there is funny or interesting story, of course.

But I have no problem to have a small talk. Participating in a small talk with people is like fingering a woman after you have cummed.

P.S. Yet I think smart people don't ask silly questions like "Why do I find a small talk boring?" A total lack of self-awareness.

FieldLine · 2019-09-18T19:43:21+00:00

I think he's wrong.

I hate small talk despite being excellent at it and engaging in it almost constantly. It's how I got to where I am today.

You can be virtually certain, as well, that if you find initial small talk boring then the people who are boring you find you, in turn, awkward, charmless, equally boring and perhaps even a bit narcissistic."

In my experience 99% of people are boring, stupid, or some combination of both, yet most of them find me charming because I know what to say to them and how to say it.

People are a lot more predictable than they want to believe.

AutoModerator · 2019-09-18T19:25:00+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

wtknight · 2019-09-19T00:52:30+00:00

I hate small talk but will openly admit that I'm awkward and have poor social skills and don't really care that I don't have many friends. I can engage in small talk with women though if I know that there's a potential of a sexual reward from it in the future.

Tomatoccino · 2019-09-19T01:27:16+00:00

How is this a new idea?

Violetta311 · 2019-09-19T02:47:10+00:00

Well, I guess Jordan Peterson and I agree on something!

I used to be down on small talk, and now I realize it is a beautiful attempt at human connection, and yes, simply the beginning of deeper conversation if you are open and paying attention. Seeking an experience you have in common - such as the weather- isn’t shallow at all.

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-09-19T02:59:11+00:00

I find that it can mostly be true, but not exactly with everyone, of course.

Personally, I'm an introvert, and I've had times during my life (including right now) where I just don't engage in small talk because I am not interested in talking with others unless it's about things that I'm interested in. Call me crazy, but everyone has certain types of people that they just "click" with, and "small talk" is as easy and as pleasant with them as any other thing that you love doing. However, when you don't share common interests with someone because you're both two different people living different lives, small talk is as tedious and treacherous as fixing a broken object with your hands tied behind your back while blindfolded.

Some people like to talk and do so with natural ease, while others just seem like they don't want to talk or lack social skills because of who they're talking to.

TheKidFlash · 2019-09-19T04:53:27+00:00

INTJ here. Jordan Peterson's response was accurate. In my opinion, INTJs are rarely stimulated by small talk. Deeper conversations are how we prefer to connect/engage with others (quite possibly the only way). INTJs are completely capable of reluctantly participating in small talk (lol) but 9/10 would prefer not to.

wtffellification · 2019-09-19T07:36:18+00:00

There's a theroy that verbal communication only amounts to 7% or so, of the whole human-conversation-information-exchange... 38% is revealed by the voice and tone, and 55% is about body language

So... I don't think small talk is 'shallow' at all, I think in the first few moments we meet someone, we can learn tremendously about ourselves and the other person

And it can be very fun. like dogs sniffing each other's asses

"how was your day" is as superficial as you make it out to be

however, if you ask me about my day, and I go on about life and existence itself and 'not typically' small talk content.... and you look at me weirdly because of it.... I say fuck you, you asked me.

People who say small talk boring are probably lying to themselves; they don't JUST find it boring, because boredom is not JUST boredom, it's a mild form of contempt and disgust

I used to be the one who 'hates the small talk' and it was correlated with my social anxiety, which was correlated with other things.. I felt I was above that and "I haven't got time for this" and that I was too intellectual for such fleeting superficial exchanges.... I felt as if small talk serves as an antidote to awkward silence... but it was a selfe defense mechanism due to me being an arsehole and a pussy

Also, people often feel like "there's nothing to be gained" here, which is a cynical view. Sure, a spontaneous talk about carrots in a store with an old lady probably isn't going to impact your life in any tremendous way, but I find when you are just 'in the moment' and not too concerned about your problems, the process of sharing a bunch of simple words and glances with someone random can be really enjoyable in and of itself

That said, I still don't go out of my way to pursue small talk

nevomintoarce · 2019-09-19T07:44:19+00:00

As an adult I understand why not being able to do small talk is a red flag for work, friendships, relationships etc. In my younger (teenage) years I used to think people who do small talk are boring and stupid and "why can't we talk about deep or complicated things all the time? shut up about the weather it's a waste of time". I also had a personal grudge against small talk and people who are social because as a kid I was forced to socialize and even shamed when I wasn't charming/polite by my parents who are stupidly extroverted and social. I'm still not charming but I can make a decent impersonation of a normal person.

nemma88 · 2019-09-19T11:07:27+00:00

I think he's pretty much right. I too find small talk boring though. I know people feel I'm cold and that's fine with me.

wellhellotherefellas · 2019-09-19T12:13:45+00:00

Is ISFP similar to INTP?

Plopolok · 2019-09-19T13:14:04+00:00

the people who are boring you find you, in turn, awkward, charmless, equally boring and perhaps even a bit narcissistic."

But then you must, in turn, find them awkward, charmless, equally boring and perhaps even a bit narcissistic?

Anyway, fwiw, his analogy to trading in pennies rings rather true for me. I find the state of mind where I enjoy small talk close to the state of mind where I enjoy browsing a market with no specific goal. There's certainly a link between stress and not enjoying small talk.

lilasbaby2 · 2019-09-19T17:19:07+00:00

People who decided to be social should also respect other people who do not wish to interact with people. They have the right to not want to interact with anyone and 'social' people are being entitled and oppressive of other people's rights and privacy.

Speedvolt2 · 2019-09-19T21:05:16+00:00

I think trp people are mentally deficient, but this is spot on,

LeJacquelope · 2019-09-18T19:50:42+00:00

People who engage in excessive small talk are easy as fuck to manipulate because they have small minds. The only take I get from Jordan Peterson is that being good at listening is how you get in these people's heads and, if you really are listening, you can take some level of control.

#DarkTriadThugLife

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-09-18T22:10:24+00:00

JP is bluepilled beta dork who sounds like Kermit the frog, but he is 100% correct about this.

DareyFathom · 2019-09-19T00:04:37+00:00

MBTI isn't scientific. OCEAN is supported by science (and Peterson refers to it often BTW).

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-09-19T00:02:24+00:00

That's a strange answer. I dislike small talk because it's boring and doesn't go anywhere.

Title	What do you think of Jordan Peterson's response to the question "why do I find small talk boring?" posted on Quora?
Author	ppthrowaway19
Upvotes	158
Comments	135
Date	September 18, 2019 7:25 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/d62sdo/what_do_you_think_of_jordan_petersons_response_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-do-you-think-of-jordan-petersons-response-to.253809 https://theredarchive.com/post/253809