Men are afraid to mentor women after #MeToo and it hurts us all: study

CainPrice · 2019-05-17T16:46:11+00:00

This was already the case in many companies. Long before MeToo, in my company, it was our official policy that male and female employees are never alone in a closed-door office. Additionally, any time you call in a female employee for termination or a reprimand, you always have another woman present.

On the other side of things, any time a female employee lodges a complaint about a male employee, it doesn't matter who you believe or what proof exists. You put the male on suspension and find another office, shift, or position where he won't be around the woman any more.

Nobody in corporate gives a shit about women's rights, men's rights, the truth, MeToo, or any of that garbage. Your job is to cover the company's ass and avoid lawsuits.

MisterJose · 2019-05-17T19:09:33+00:00

"Fuck you, men. You suck. You're the cause of all problems. Your desires are evil, and no one will ever love you...now come help me with this."

i_amtheice · 2019-05-17T18:37:51+00:00

“It’s not enough to not harass us, you need to not ignore us, either.”

Go fuck yourself.

says_harsh_things · 2019-05-17T16:46:53+00:00

Men and women both can spot professional victims that contribute nothing and make an issue out of everything from a mile away. What a coincidence that the people being ignored are the people writing articles like this.

Salty-Bastard · 2019-05-17T16:07:49+00:00

My buddy worked a few offices down from Sandberg (he's moved to an international FB office) and some of the stories he would recount about her were unbelievable. She is truly a vile human.

theambivalentrooster · 2019-05-17T16:11:56+00:00

One of the problems is that many companies have different cultures that make it easier to make fraudulent accusations.

My company culture doesn’t really offer a lot of opportunities to do so. No drinking on the job, Superiors don’t mingle with subordinates outside the office, travel arrangements are separated by gender. All of the offices Have windows. Formal discussions have witnesses present.

But if you work for a hip young start up that wants to have a flat structure and Blur personal and professional lines and have everyone work 80 hours a week you’re going to have more opportunities for accusations.

razenha · 2019-05-17T16:52:02+00:00

Oh, who would had thought that creating a moral panic would have negative repercussions.

Suck-Less · 2019-05-17T19:01:27+00:00

Dam right I am afraid of mentoring her. Terrified. And to be straight about it, I’m married and do not flirt. I don’t catcall, put my hands on a women, slap her in the ass, or use sex as a weapon in the work place. I save that ass slapping and catcalling for my wife. When I was single I had a “never in the office” policy. I don’t talk down to women and I don’t go out of my way to help a woman, when I won’t help a man in the same situation.

So why am I terrified of mentoring women? First off, I have mentored a few. In both cases is was more of a “fix her before we fire her” mentoring. In both cases I busted my ass coming up with lesson plans, orchestrating methods of learning and identifying what her next steps would be. In both cases all I got were excuses based on kids, or “I can’t” and crying. WTF, she is an adult and crying in the office?. That’s not my problem. Everything I laid out to handle could have been done after she put them to bed.

I never have a problem with any employee running home to do X with the kids as long as the goals are met.

In both cases I had to present my lesson plans, and copies of emails and chats to my manager because they claimed I didn’t help.... working to three am to get my goals done and their lesson plans completed, and they claimed a lack of effort on my part. This was, of course, right before they got fired. If that happened today, I’m sure they would make up some sexual harassment bs to keep their jobs.

Another reason I will never mentor her now is because I speak a different language. I’m GenX, and we tend to be less “touchy-feely” and a bit rough around the edges. Even my vocabulary would get me in trouble. “Hooking up” used to mean to meet somewhere.

Do you think I really want to second guess everything and every single sentence that comes out of my mouth, or how some feminist psycho interprets a normal word, because some women on a pedestal has a mental breakdown over a freakin a word?

Hell no I won’t mentor her. Because she doesn’t need proof, all she needs is a Twitter account. Like this or not, I already have a complete list of excuses just in case.

Besides, I’m a man. No one mentored me why should I make some woman’s job easier?

Aggressive_Beta · 2019-05-17T16:30:23+00:00

It’s always men’s fault no matter what. This is what happens when you spend decades indoctrinating an entire gender about how toxic they are. Eventually they just drop out and avoid you altogether. And if there’s anything that’s a woman’s kryptonite, it’s withdrawal of provision (attention/validation/resources/commitment).

I will continue to ignore feminist garbage and only look out for number one.

darudeboysandstorm · 2019-05-17T19:00:25+00:00

Corporate culture in the US is driven management trends, being global cannibals, and acquisitions, men do not really want to mentor other men and they were never interested in mentoring women to begin with. Most people go their entire career without a mentor or they might have a temporary one tied to specific projects or a temporary ally because of shared interests.

In the hospital world, mission statements are big, they are complete bullshit. Hospitals in the US are driven by cost containment and maximizing profit so every five or six years when a new CEO shows up they restructure. Nobody mentors they grab a piece of the pie and leave.

Nobody including women cares about what Sandberg says.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-05-17T19:26:25+00:00

There’s a symbiotic relationship between 2 types of comments on this thread:

1) Man saying that he’s hesitant to mentor women because he fears false suspicions and accusations

2) Woman saying that men who mentor women are actually just creeps hiding their true intentions

passepar2t · 2019-05-17T16:23:59+00:00

Didn't we discuss this like six months ago? I think last time it was brought up, some lawyer in a different article was quoted as saying that if you avoid mentoring women, you can end up backing into a sex discrimination claim but if you do mentor them, you can misstep into a sexual harassment claim.

So it's a bit of a minefield, only instead of mines scattered among empty patches of dirt, it's vindictive bitches scattered around normal women who are just there to do their job.

I don't know what to make of this tbh. I've never run into this type of thing in my career but I'm sure it's out there.

exit_sandman · 2019-05-17T19:47:10+00:00

“There’s not a company in the world that can afford to leave talent on the sidelines because it’s female,”

I reject that this is happening. If someone in a position of power within an organization spots a quality in a candidate that they think they can leverage to make the organization stronger, I absolutely refuse to believe that they'd pass up the opportunity because, "she might #metoo me :("

I looked up "reasons people choose to become mentors" and most of it was like "shape the leaders of tomorrow!" and "change someone's world!" and "exercise your emotional intelligence!" which is to say that the dividends of mentoring are largely happy feelings about having shared your wisdom and enriched some young person's life... which are nice things that most people are probably willing to invest a little time and effort into, even if there's no tangible remuneration for it. The possibility that someone might take the "intimacy" involved in a mentor-mentee relationship and use it to ruin your professional reputation probably makes the warm fuzzies you'd get from mentoring a junior person way less compelling. The incentive's not enough to compensate for the risk of which all these men have now been made aware.

Finally... nobody's entitled to a mentor. You earn one's interest by being competent and teachable. Mentoring is fucking VOLUNTARY. Cheryl is out of touch with reality.

2019-05-17T16:30:09+00:00

Now Sandberg says it’s time for men to “step up”

Once again, "dear men, please act against your own self-interest, shaming language, shaming language."

Sandberg says. “It’s not enough to not harass us, you need to not ignore us, either.”

Ah yes, the female "Goldilocks Principle" - "have the psychic power to understand exactly what I want, not too hot, not too cold."

Never understood this anyway.

I don't think women understand what "mentoring" means. It means guiding someone's career by telling them what they're doing wrong, and putting them in positions where work will advance what they're doing.

What they think it means is "that SOOPER SEECKRIT WAY THAT THE PATRIARCHY GIVES A WHITE MAN A GREAT JOB WITHOUT ANY WORK."

Once you put it in these terms, it involves women being told what to do and having people give them things to do - well, that's when the backtalk starts. Because it's a feminist axiom that women always know better what to do than men and women always are right and men are always wrong.

So basically what you're asking men to do is basically just give women carte blanche to do what they want to do. Let me guess, the next whine will be that mentoring involves soooooo much wooooooork and we need a "new kind of work-life balance mentoring" or suchlike.

That's the best case scenario.

What's a bad one? Look at our fictional office of Product Development Inc. Cathy works there. Cathy thinks she is hot shit and shoots flames out of her asshole because she just came back from the Democrat rally where there are uteruses and vaginas everywhere and WOMEN ARE POWERFUL AND WOMEN ARE STRONG and blah bladdy blah. And gets confronted, nicely and patiently, with that she isn't, what she did was absolute crap, it would damage the business, do it again.

Well, she either raises a stink about the patriarchal, nasty, evil man and they wouldn't treat a young man that way.

The worst case? Cathy is chosen to be mentored and of course, Cathy is very very smug about this around the dinner table with Becky, Jenny and Norah. This doesn't sit right with Becky, who's very, very, very, very, very jealous. She goes to HR saying she thinks she overheard someone talking about how Mr. Smith told a very inappropriate joke and might be having a sexual relationship with Cathy.

In other words, the best case scenario is - she gets resentful that you're telling her what to do as opposed to giving her your job.

The worst case is, you basically have to deal with a shit-ton of non-work related departmental drama.

The real solution is to suggest that since women know it all, they should get on with it.

MrHerbSherman · 2019-05-17T17:57:02+00:00

For so many women, everything has to be “just so”

Bntt89 · 2019-05-17T19:15:55+00:00

Ya I bet the same thing happened when people where asked how they felt about women being CEOs. They are just afraid, if we stop demonizing Male sexuality maybe then most men would realize what's appropriate or not. I dont think this is as big of a deal as we make it out to be.

StaleBread1 · 2019-05-17T16:25:23+00:00

Women are not entitled to have a mentor

nada_fap · 2019-05-17T16:34:45+00:00

Fuck this - I've been working as a.software engineer for over a decade at both mega-corps and small companies. I've never been mentored. I get thrown a laptop, a list of tasks, and told to get busy.

At best, I have a project lead who helps with technical stuff if I ask, and I am happy to return the favor for new engineers.

But a formal mentorship program? Yeah right, lol.

What's funny is that a few of the mega-corps I worked for did have these programs. We'd all get emails about how we could apply and it was open to all employees. But not once did I even get it after applying every year. But guess who did always get them? Women and especially women of color.

0kool74 · 2019-05-17T17:14:15+00:00

“The vast majority of managers and senior leaders are men,” says Sheryl Sandberg, Facebook COO, SurveyMonkey board member and founder of LeanIn.Org, in a statement. “If they are reluctant even to meet one-on-one with women, there’s no way women can get an equal shot at proving themselves.”

Well maybe they should have thought about that before all this #metoo shit started. Sandberg is a fucking cunt! She can use this pedantic shaming language all she wants but it's not gonna change the landscape. It's already bollocks in the workplace without risking career over personal mentoring. These stupid fucking women......they never stop to think about how their actions may have consequences. BED! MADE! LIE!!!!!

v3r1 · 2019-05-17T16:37:13+00:00

I mean I think women have it figured out, just whine at all stages of your life until you die of old age, cry about being helped too much, too little, and so and so. What ever you do, remember to cry and whine and pout.

Just don't even try as hard, cry until the system changes to accommodate your every personal need.

Ofc if men interact with women and get fired they stop interacting. Some women took it too far and ruined it for everyone that's what happens. They could take a stand and actually reach a middle ground but they are not interested in that, they are interested in men completely changing their behaviour and adapt fully to them, as per usual.

Supernumiphone · 2019-05-17T17:50:49+00:00

There’s not a company in the world that can afford to leave talent on the sidelines because it’s female,

Citation needed.

It bears repeating that the #MeToo zealots shot themselves in the foot by shouting down people asking for there to be reasonable standards of evidence applied to accusations, and a presumption of innocence. In the absence of these things the only way for men to protect themselves is complete avoidance.

_Anarchon_ · 2019-05-17T16:15:49+00:00

Depending on their mood and how attracted to the man a woman is, mentoring will be considered mansplaining.

This is just one of the many problems with having women in the workplace. The solution is for them to get back in the kitchen and stfu. They are much happier when they are submissive, and aren't in charge of their own destiny.

liquidsnakex · 2019-05-17T17:39:10+00:00

There's an easy way to solve this during the hiring/interview process:

Are you a feminist?

If the answer is yes, just don't hire them; it's an extremist political ideology, not a gender or any other type of protected class. Problem solved.

Mr_Smoogs · 2019-05-17T15:56:23+00:00

Pretty obvious outcome to me.

I know some companies are having required mentorship training. My girlfriends company had this 'shark tank' thing where people presented professional devlopemnt ideas to the board and then they chose the best one. A female mentorship program was chosen (over her idea of paying for the PMP and others including data camp/powerBI/tableau training), but it obviously got defanged for being exclusive of men so it just became a general mentorship initiative.

Anyway, the men and women became assigned some work mommy whom they never spoke to beyond the first introductory meeting. The whole idea of mentorship is outdated IMO. It would be better money spent to just pay for the PMP for employees or pay for some data camp. The implication that some office mommy is going to mentor women into closing the earnings pay gap is hilarious.

Joey_Lopez · 2019-05-18T13:18:29+00:00

I don't even work with females anymore not to risk any accusations. I worked way too hard to get where I am just to risk my reputation because some random broad didn't like my joke, or even (gasp) I did try to flirt a little. Besides when I used to work with females they mostly expected me to do all the work for them. My company even canceled the annual christmas party to avoid any accusations.

Once sex is completely out off the table men will see that most females can not pull their own weight and will stop hiring them. Maybe then females will have to learn how to be marriageable again.

It's sad really because a lot of professionals spend all of their time at work or school and that was where they usually met someone. I really feel sorry for the young boys now in college that can't enjoy the sex I did in college because now the risk is just too high.

P.S.

Fuck feminism.

Sir_Koopaman · 2019-05-17T16:10:30+00:00

That's what happens when anyone can claim #PoundMeToo with minimal consequences.

nemma88 · 2019-05-17T16:04:27+00:00

I kinda get their issue, but having worked in a Tech company for the last 10 or so years currently in a team of 30 or so comprising of two women, also not really. Most meeting these days are not even face to face, and when they are most of the time they are in open offices.

So I guess I propose a end to private offices.

ivisi0n · 2019-05-17T17:06:09+00:00

You just learn not to play with the fire once you get your hand burned with it. + Not everyone has to burn their hands to know that it's painful.

czerdec · 2019-05-17T17:03:49+00:00

The solution to this problem is for everyone to adopt the principles of minarchism in the manner of Ayn Rand and just put them into practice.

It's amazing how many problems disappear once you apply that simple trick.

(jk, obviously)

PaintingOfJoan · 2019-05-17T16:12:04+00:00

This really sucks for men and women, but I guess this is just what it came down to in the end. This is just the backlash from people standing up to other people in positions of power abusing it. This had to happen eventually and it will just play itself out. It’s kinda colorful ‘cause it looks like times going backwards and men and women are going to get re-segregated.

concacanca · 2019-05-17T16:17:41+00:00

I imagine that criticism of her will be pegged as misogyny so she'll keep spouting shite no doubt.

Doesnt seem all that prevalent in my industry. In fact that last I saw, there were more harassment cases brought against women in my company than by them (which may be due to underreporting idk).

sublimemongrel · 2019-05-17T16:11:57+00:00

Well this doesn’t appear to be happening in my industry lol. But it’s not surprising. I see the point she makes but it’s also a little rich - if people feel they have to walk on eggshells not to offend someone or give someone the wrong idea they are bound to be more avoidant. Of course that doesn’t mean that feeling is always justified but what do you expect really, people will overcompensate when they aren’t sure the best way to navigate a problem and it’s always been a tricky issue even without metoo#.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-05-17T20:54:07+00:00

Sheryl Sandberg is a CEO, she's not "mentally ill." You can debate her ideas without name-calling.

flaxeater · 2019-05-18T02:32:20+00:00

Honestly, the current climate is chilling, it's like a lottery where the only thing you win is your life getting ruined at worst, at best some pretty fucked up conversations.

However, as always it's a case by case basis, if I want to I will if I don't I probably won't. My experience in corporate life is any woman with competence has mentors lining up.

Suck-Less · 2019-05-18T15:13:33+00:00

Funny side note. I just went through the usual corporate reorganization. New team, same role. The difference is that the team is larger and there are a few females on it now... fk.

So, first staff meeting and one of them speaks up about how we should mentor people. Know what the response was from the entire team? A team that has on average 20 years per person in the field?

Crickets. Absolute crickets. The whole conf call went silent. No one will say it out loud, no one will risk their career by even commenting, but no man on that call was dumb enough to put themselves in that situation.

No one in corporate America will publicly admit it, but the Pence rule is everywhere.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-05-17T15:54:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2019-05-17T15:51:30+00:00

Is anyone surprised by this? It's all so tiring.

madmadG · 2019-05-17T16:35:29+00:00

Yup I won’t talk to women or make eye contact at work. Too risky.

geyges · 2019-05-17T16:16:51+00:00

Yea I don't know. Never had problem with mentoring women or meeting them one on one in professional environments. It's not that scary.

I wonder if these men had mothers or sisters. Like not every female is a cunning backstabbing man-hater.... I don't think...

angels-fan · 2019-05-17T16:49:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

cattermelon34 · 2019-05-17T20:08:51+00:00

So men are scared of a false complaint? Imagine how women feel about sexism in the workplace which is WAAAAAYYY more common.

Seriously dudes it's false rape accusations vs rape all over again.

Im not saying false accusations don't happen or aren't serious but you can't act like the two things happen in equal abundance and deserve equal amounts of air time.

squishles · 2019-05-17T18:06:12+00:00

men were never interested in mentoring women in the first place, it isn't a metoo thing, but now i guess they have an excuse

AutoModerator · 2019-05-17T15:43:14+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

jackandjill22 · 2019-05-18T02:46:19+00:00

jackandjill22 · 2019-05-18T02:46:23+00:00

angels_fan_rp · 2019-05-18T05:15:23+00:00

ColCrin · 2019-05-18T15:17:21+00:00

Can't blame them to be fair.

Willow-girl · 2019-05-20T02:05:43+00:00

Haha, I remember one time (at a government job, no less) I was assigned a mentor and one of his first questions was, "So ... you married?"

Blargh. :-(

poppy_blu · 2019-05-17T17:36:43+00:00

I’ll just sit here and watch the PPD bros dig their own/men’s grave with this one.

Who’s got the popcorn?

throwaway2323423477 · 2019-05-18T02:31:54+00:00

Who gets mentored these days in corporate? Also, why does anyone care what Cheryl has to say about this shit?

Title	Men are afraid to mentor women after #MeToo and it hurts us all: study
Author	Atlas_B_Shruggin
Upvotes	116
Comments	484
Date	May 17, 2019 3:43 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/bpsuyp/men_are_afraid_to_mentor_women_after_metoo_and_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-women-after-metoo-and-it.255724 https://theredarchive.com/post/255724