CMV: The concept of female attraction is the hardest pill to swallow

TechnicalCriticism · 2019-01-25T18:58:12+00:00

You’re putting up a straw man. Nobody ever once said that in a perfect world women would get wet and quivering when she sees every man. Men are not comfortable with how female attraction works because it is extraordinarily picky, bordering arrogance.

Some women would spit on an objectively ugly man if they tried talking to her. That is the root of the problem. Nobody is expecting to have a girl ride them and bear his babies just by looking at him. But to be ignored entirely based on a first impression of appearance is the problem.

diffdedbed · 2019-01-25T18:55:45+00:00

I know a hot guy but he's practically on the spectrum.

He goes to parties and sits on his phone.

Women come to him. Him on his phone does better than me on my best game.

cxj · 2019-01-25T17:51:32+00:00

Why is it hard to accept women don’t get turned on immediately from just looking at a man. (Incoming comments about how they do for ‘attractive’ men)

Do I really have to cyv if you pointed out the flaw with your argument

celincelin · 2019-01-25T20:04:50+00:00

Off topic: I'm honestly completely happy with the social norms that men approach women and dislike it when the idea is pushed on Reddit that women should ask guys out more.

You don't realize how good you have it until you start getting hit on by women you aren't attracted to. That happens more often towards your 30s. It's annoying as fuck and makes you think how annoying it must be for women as well.

mgtow-zen · 2019-01-25T18:56:00+00:00

When I ask myself honestly, I'm really only physically attracted to about 10 to 20% of the women I see, and of that the attraction quickly fades.

It's not a hard pill to swallow, for me.

The reason it once was a hard pill to swallow was because I once believed it mattered. That my value was proportional to the number of women willing to fuck me.

I don't think men actually are attracted to very many women, it's just that men (blue pill men) are kind of desperate because they honestly believe their happiness is tied up in it. Making it seem like they are attracted (sexually) to many many more women than women are to men.

One unfortunate aspect I've found, is that I become attracted to women in non physical ways quite often. I think "gee, she's really neat" and end up having to "defend" myself, because she thinks I'm into her as a partner when I'm not. She then tells everyone in the group that she's not into me, and even though I never asked her out and that makes a very awkward environment.

So, I still have to watch out for that.

passepar2t · 2019-01-25T18:59:35+00:00

Oh my gee. How many times do I have to explain this? Being hot and valuable lowers the boundaries to entry.

mwait · 2019-01-25T18:13:35+00:00

If you think chicks don't play by different rules for hot dudes, then I have a bridge to sell you.

Five_Decades · 2019-01-25T22:44:13+00:00

Part of its just that the genders have trouble understanding each other. Men just assume women work the way men do, and discount them when they say otherwise. But women do the same thing. I have lost count of the number of times I or other men have tried to explain to women what male experiences are like (for example in online dating), and the women just write off our experiences and unreal no matter how many men say the same thing.

But also, the reality of female attraction can be very depressing. Women don't find most men attractive, and even when they do it is a selfish attraction. Once your good genes, SMV, or personality traits that make you useful as a protector/provider/parent disappear, so do they. Is a sad pill to swallow.

chubby_leenock_hugs · 2019-01-25T19:52:18+00:00

"some do; some don't

It seems to me the hardest pill to swallow in this sub and in many places is that human beings are individuals and you actually have to get to know people before you can say stuff about them and the easy way of making assumptions about them based on their gender which may sound easy is like wrong 60% of the time.

petrichordium · 2019-01-25T18:02:20+00:00

You’re half right: men here project a hyperactive male sexuality onto women. Honestly redpill rage erotica (all the cheating alpha cock hungry sluts) is the only form of written erotica i like, even if a lot of it is unintentional.

That saaaaid, women have a tendency to sublimate their sexual responses into more socially acceptable forms, and they have a tendency to value weight their RELATIONSHIP standards when communicating what they like. They are also incentivized by purity standards to do this. Take those expectations off the table and women will DISH. And There truly is a gulf of difference between what higher libido women DO and what women as a whole SAY. I’m not super red and i think this is obvious.

And here is the last, most darkly funny part. Lower libido women don’t understand that their opinions on this just count less. Women who aren’t having lots of sex... matter less. Women who aren’t as preening matter less. These women are always preaching loudly about how they actually want this or like this, and they might even be right in some way. But if they aren’t regularly taking part in the marketplace of who is getting laid, then they don’t matter as much in defining sexual mores and shaping how men understand female sexuality.

DREADC0RSAIR · 2019-01-25T20:42:38+00:00

Dude if you're even remotely good looking and step out of your house a girl will hit on you in some fashion. The part that is unsettling is their unconscious hypergamous behavior, it doesn't even matter how hot you are because if someone better comes along or if you're down on your luck she jumps ship.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2019-01-25T19:11:49+00:00

Nobody knows or claims to know toward what women are attracted, particularly usually not women themselves. And frankly guys don't really care.

They just want to know what works most often with the most women.....so guys test various behaviors and settle for what works with the most women, the most often.

And it is HARDLY, EVER what a woman claim attracts them.....I don't know how many times I have been told that I wasn't to what they normally are attracted...blah, blah, blah. And even more evident to anyone who has been around women of various ages for any length of time, there have simply been way, way too many times where we hear about a particular lady's Superman, Apollo Greek God of a Hercules of a man that is the epitome of Chadness in posit on Earth for months and months until the office actually meets the dude at the office Christmas Party where people are rolling their eyes because he in no way matches what the girl sees in the dude at all. She talks about his extreme charm, charisma but he often comes across as a doofus, boring dolt to the rest of the office and people quickly are like WTF? And on many occasions, in later months when the relationship goes to pot, suddenly she list many of those characteristics as the reasons.

It isn't that men don't know to what women attracted, it is that men are just interested in what behavior\looks works with the most women and the most often for them.

BobApposite · 2019-01-25T20:19:51+00:00

You can't make broad generalizations.

Who knows what's natural, healthy female attraction?

Lots of women these days are on meds that reduce their libido.

We live in a new age of asexuality and demisexuality and aromantics and who knows what.

Most men have had experiences where women approached them or pursued them.

So broad claims that "women just don't do that" aren't true.

And what's "most women" anyway?

Comments like that are usually assumptions based on the speaker, where the speaker assumes most everyone is like them - which may or may not be true.

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-01-25T20:45:47+00:00

I suppose it is because for men being men, we tend to view our own attraction as more...... honest(?), while I’m certain that women feel the same way about female attraction, but it just does not appear that way to us.

It is in no way women’s fault for how they feel and display attraction toward men. It simply is what it is.

However, you cannot expect anyone to be perfectly fine with being rejected by a multitude of people who say “Don’t take it personally,” because it IS personal. Everyone wants to be desired and feel like they belong within their own species, and being continuously rejected would make anyone feel like they do not belong eventually, because, to them, it means they’re unwanted.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that human attraction itself is a very hard (and strange) pill to swallow.

HonestyOverCivility · 2019-01-26T01:52:28+00:00

TLDR:

Women: “SMV inheritance”

Men: “Hard earned SMV wage”

From a male perspective it doesn’t exactly seem fair...

Most men don’t like the idea that they have to work on their personality and social skills because it’s fucking hard! Likewise, the path to personal improvements rarely quick or obvious. However, the payoff is long lasting

Conversely, most women inherit their attractiveness through youth and good looks which aren’t exactly “hard earned” but nevertheless fade quickly with age

To many young men, this dynamic seems unfair

HumanSockPuppet · 2019-01-26T02:23:24+00:00

Accepting the truth of female attraction is not the hardest pill to swallow. It's not even in the top five. I say this as someone who has provided thousands men with advice through articles, and dozens via private message.

It just seems like the hardest pill to swallow because it's usually the first one that guys swallow.

Orange_Paisley · 2019-01-25T20:10:18+00:00

It's pretty true. I see guys every day that I might think, "Hmm, there's an attractive fellow" but that doesn't translate to, "I want to have sex with him!" I almost never think that until there has been a buildup of flirting and sexual attention. Also, a lot of guys who look attractive at first glance end up being not attractive at all when you talk to them, and some men who are unremarkable in looks can be crazy sexy once you've gotten to know them. That whole RP/incel thing about "women know within 15 seconds if they want to have sex with a guy" is bunk.

blackedoutfast · 2019-01-25T22:21:29+00:00

no one thinks it's 100% about a man's looks except a few of the retarded blackpill incel faggots who are just looking for excuses.

RP is very aware of the importance of all the non-looks-based stuff that contributes to a man's attractiveness. that's why there is such a strong emphasis on frame, seeing yourself as the prize, IDGAF attitude, confidence, game, social dominance and status, crushing shit tests, etc. even the parts of RP that seem to be entirely superficial and looks-based (like the emphasis on lifting) are really more about developing masculine confidence and discipline than looks.

that said, you are completely dead ass wrong about women approaching men. it absolutely does happen, especially if the guy's SMV is much higher relative to the woman's. it's not extremely common, and usually when a woman is very blatant and direct about hitting on a guy, there's a good chance the guy won't see it as a positive thing because he probably has an abundance of better options.

but really your whole post (and your other posts and comments) are just a lot of insecurity and hamstering trying to justify your belief that women somehow really do have all the power. that men are attracted to women because women are using their magical feminine wiles to seduce them. that women only decide to be attracted to a man after he has approached and starting to interact with them.

you can't negotiate attraction. none of this stuff is a conscious, voluntary choice. it all happens in a much deeper, more instinctive part of the brain that's beyond your conscious control. right now, when you're thinking about these situations in the hypothetical, you're imagining yourself as some kind of puppetmaster and decision maker consciously deciding who to be attracted to, and consciously seducing him. but that's not how it works in real life.

Nobodykers · 2019-01-25T22:55:38+00:00

Its jealousy of chad. You could be yourself in all of your glorious cringe and still fuck if you had a 9/10 face.

Since men's attraction strongly correlates to the physical attractiveness of a woman, while women only feel this type of physical attraction to top tier men, it naturally insinuates from a male perspective that she is only truly attracted to very hot guys. Even though her attraction increases through other parameters as well, like status and social behaviour. These 'Chad' outliers utilize a single parameter to gain the attractive power comparable to what men have towards women.

I believe that this on turn has the potential to cause negative emotions because of cognitive dissonance and jealousy, followed by inability to understand others. Which could cause a strong sense of unfairness and loss of focus on better oneself.

SupremeMystique · 2019-01-26T02:17:53+00:00

Why is it hard to accept women don’t get turned on immediately from just looking at a man

That's just false. Nobody is sensitive about it, it's just false. She's more likely to talk to you if you're attractive.

whitetrashcarl · 2019-01-25T17:55:42+00:00

I think the biggest sticking point is just that there’s no way for it to make intuitive sense to me, I’ve been trying to wrap my head around it for like 20 years now and I feel like I still have almost no idea. Even when I explain it in my own words what has worked for me I get a lot of eye rolls or “wow that’s a weird way of characterizing it”

It’s really hard bc I don’t usually have so much trouble with ideas , usually that is what I excel at, but with this one topic I’m just lost

The best analogy I have is I guess what healthy eating looked like to me before I learned how to count macros. It was all just a mismash of allegedly healthy foods and allegedly unhealthy foods but it was all a matter of opinion and I couldn’t really quantify it

openoids · 2019-01-25T21:55:38+00:00

But notice the crowdgasm when the beatles used to play in concert halls.

GuyWithTheStalker · 2019-01-25T22:59:38+00:00

Hooooooooly fuck, dude.

I'm sick and tired of hearing these stupid-ass questions on here.

If you

1) Have a job that pays at least 40k and ideally at least 60k,

2) Aren't too gross looking,

3) Aren't totally socially inept, and

4) Are not treated like absolute shit,

Then almost none of these dumbass questions of this sub should matter.

Get. Your. Shit. Together. (If you can't get and/or keep your shit together in a reasonable manner, then there may be fuckery at play...)

But anyway...

I swear to God.... I swear to fucking God... If I get "Quantum Leaped" into your body I am absolutely not switching back.

You're wining for no reason. Stop being such a waste of oxygen. If you can't do that, then please literally do not procreate.

LUClEN · 2019-01-26T00:04:34+00:00

I have two issues issues with your reasoning.

Women fawn over men they never even met and may never meet, such as celebrities. If we know this then why would we think attraction requires pursuit? Doesn't make sense, guy.
Nightclubs function as sexual display grounds and studies have given us good insight into how this plays out. Dancing, clothing (or lack thereof), eye contact and more are all displays that build attraction, often before any actual engagement occurs. If women needed to be pursued or didn't like hot men then these places would not be able to function since they depend on physical displays.

Xemnas81 · 2019-01-26T02:18:30+00:00

I'm pretty sure that triggers men less than the fact that

The statistical odds are that if you are an average man, you will die without reproducing.
If you are an average man and do attempt to reproduce, it will be on a woman's terms
which typically means bound to family law which is a minor death sentence.

equanimous_samsara · 2019-01-25T17:55:38+00:00

It's not that hard to swallow it unless you really had something vested in it being another way. Men don't really have to swallow a pill when it comes to learning that women generally don't approach, it's pretty obvious they don't. "If you have to approach you’re a loser!" is a strawman

I think the real hardest pill to swallow is the fact that we're going to get old and die someday, it kind of makes this whole "what's attractive to women" talk kind of silly.

rxbDJ · 2019-01-25T23:01:22+00:00

This whole sub lost its meaning for me once I realized I'm not in control of the people I meet or who takes a liking or disliking to me. We're just passengers on a ride

This can be good or bad because anything can happen but never what you think. The girl I'm forever hung up on and ruined my life to confess my love to chose a 55 year old man after she toyed with me for 5 years

So uggos rejoice because if you think the baddest baddie getting with you is too stupid to believe, trust me stupid shit happens

supernerdycyclist · 2019-01-26T03:53:04+00:00

If your view is that female attraction is the hardest pill to swallow, I would argue that there are harder things to swallow as a man. I doubt people would be on this subreddit debating blue/red/black/rainbow pills if this concept was the hardest to swallow.

However, if you are arguing that:

most women don’t feel attraction in that way until a guy makes moves on her

This is already just a given making the generalization that females are not as visual as men in terms of attraction.

[deleted] · 2019-01-26T08:10:29+00:00

Except women DO get turned on by looking at a man. It's not the exact same as in men but..

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7plates · 2019-01-26T13:46:18+00:00

the hardest pill isn't the attraction itself because it makes logical sense, it's that you've been lied to about it and the road ahead if you go down that path is gonna be a hard and difficult one requiring constant work and progression.

bigmfkr · 2019-01-26T15:52:33+00:00

Have you never seen men getting chased by women without having to put any effort beyond saying a few words to them? Maybe they "don't get wet immediately", but they certainly get interested enough to chase these men.

You probably haven't though, hence the post.

throwaway-637 · 2019-01-25T22:01:23+00:00

It's almost like men find it hard to swallow that female attraction isn't just physical. Like they always lament about "women only being attracted to 20% of men". That doesn't fucking matter. They're too solipsistic to fathom that unlike male attraction, female attraction isn't only based on physical appearance, women are just less visual. You can be attracted to someone for their charisma/personality too. Women can and do become attracted to guys they weren't initially physically attracted to. Men don't want to accept that because it's easier to blame women and play victim, and tell themselves that it's out of their control.

And since men in the manospheres are so focused on casual sex, they see women having sex with attractive men and then they say women care about looks as much as men do and only want attractive guys. No, it's just that their only attention is on casual sex so that's where their observations come from, and obviously casual sex is only gonna be based on physical appearance, what else would is it supposed to be based on. But it doesn't say anything about general male and female attraction. And even below average guys can get laid with status, charisma or personality. Men's looks don't matter, they have a lot of ways to charm and attract a woman.

SavingMasculinity · 2019-01-26T00:22:16+00:00

feminism insists women are the same as men so when people see that's not true it's hard for them to comprehend.

[deleted] · 2019-01-26T03:00:25+00:00

I can tell you how it should be but it’s not

Females should be just as horny as men and just us forward about

Also women should be as open to screw even the ugly guys like men will screw even the ugly girls

I know it’s just a pipe dream but it would be fun

Title	CMV: The concept of female attraction is the hardest pill to swallow
Author	wokein
Upvotes	70
Comments	268
Date	January 25, 2019 5:48 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ajrjzw/cmv_the_concept_of_female_attraction_is_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-the-concept-of-female-attraction-is-the.257626 https://theredarchive.com/post/257626

Gillette2019