If you want to know why people are having less sex than before, you must ask "why are women giving out less sex than before?"

sawouthkay · 2018-11-22T03:09:15+00:00

That kind of post is the very reason I do not call myself a red piller. You’re extrapolating way too much from concepts that are sound (hypergamy, etc.), but more complex than you make them seem.

“Ok” guys do get laid. Do standards for men have increased? Yes, without any doubt. But that’s only a minor part of the story. Most likely, the bulk of this phenomenon is due to the increase of entertainment and decrease in physical interaction.

Autistic_Reeeeeeeeee · 2018-11-22T05:05:40+00:00

The reason is extremely obvious.

Women are transcending the need for men due to the state or government replacing mens roles.

We have police, Welfare, healthcare, Public housing, alimony, child support, Technology like Security systems and copious other things replacing the male in homes. This was all previously handled by a man in the home and women acquired it by providing sex.

Women do not need give men sex anymore. All of their needs are taken care of.

Women have now determined that the male sexual market value is not as high overall.

If the western world were to descend into chaos and became dangerous you would see a lot more women using sex to pay for protection and their well being.

manwithmeasuringline · 2018-11-22T05:01:17+00:00

Is it just me or does it seem like someone makes this exact post in their own words like at least once a week?

storffish · 2018-11-22T03:38:46+00:00

I assume you're a teenager but there will come a time when you're often too exhausted to chase tail and would rather jerk off that night and get your time back. if there's anything experience has taught me it's that most broads aren't worth the effort.

rainisthelife · 2018-11-22T06:49:01+00:00

Most people that fret about why people are having less sex, are men. Women don’t care. As long as they have their relationships and are having sex with the one person they love (and maybe with a few fwbs or ons tossed in for the novelty, variety and excitement of it), then they’re fine. Most women are not on a mission to rack up their numbers, as men are. And sex is not the main drive pushing them to pursue relationships. A man that prefers to seek spurious ons or short term flings all because of variety, instead of nurturing a healthy relationship, should not be whining about the low frequency of sex he’s having.

Plus I actually think the reason why people are having less sex, is because they’re marrying later. or not at all. Married people, on average, have more sex than single people. If a guy wants to have more sex, he should marry, and marry early. And since men are more often the ones that propose marriage, they are the limiting factor to their own sexual frequency. Are there downsides to marrying early? Perhaps. But from the sexual frequency standpoint, it’s the best way available for the average man (i.e most men) to have the more sex that they want.

messiahslave · 2018-11-22T12:02:09+00:00

Best explanation to that was given by Houellebecq, the main cause is the liberalisation and the desacralisation of the intimacy which turn the mating and sexuality into a market, we call it a sexual market where people have a value and the same principles apply :

"In a perfectly liberal economic system, some will accumulate considerable fortunes; others will wallow in unemployment and misery. In a perfectly liberal sexual system, some will enjoy a varied and exciting erotic life; others will be reduced to masturbation and solitude".

So like in the liberal economic system this translate in some people becoming very very rich and other becoming very very poor and since there is absolutely no regulation in this market, especially no regulation of the competition, then monopoles ("Chad") take it all.

In this market, the men are not the buyers, women in reality are.

Indeed, it is safe to say that men will sleep with the main majority of women while the reverse is not true so the rare ressources is the "Chad" not the woman.

So the Chad has all the ressources at his disposal but cannot fu... them all.

it is like in the economy, the very very very rich cannot be the bulk of the consumption, I mean, one can only one steack, one can buy 1 car, 2 cars but will get bored at the 10th cars.

So if most of the ressources are in fewer hands, the consumption will decline on average.

The same thing apply here, few people get a lot of sex but the vast majority lives in scarcity which results in an overall decrease in the sex consumption.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-11-22T02:16:51+00:00

Women have absolutely no desire to sleep with an "ok" guy any more

when do you think they did?

KaraokeKween · 2018-11-22T03:10:02+00:00

Women are tired and overworked because wages haven't kept up with inflation, older employees aren't financially secure enough to retire, and student loan debt is strangling them. They're busy, they're receiving messages that the men they meet need extensive vetting due to current sociocultural atmosphere, they're on a budget, they have more time to work if they're not in a relationship and relationships, both finding and maintaining, need a lot of time and attention, in part because they increase the time per week spent having sex.

The same is true of young men. We're all really tired and we're not fucking as much as people expected based on past demographics who didn't have to work as hard to survive. I'm 21 and I can tell you, quite honestly, if I didn't have a wonderful boyfriend who was fine with me working long hours/living residentially on a campus where he can't live or even visit for very long, I would never have sex. I just wouldn't.

It's murder to get off campus, travel costs money and time that I could be working, for anyone but the kindest, most perfect, most understanding man in the world, I would not go to the consistent trouble. Not for 'tinder hookups', not for parties, not for bars. A hookup could be infinitely hot but he would not be 'worth it'. A larger portion of women than before are in college; a larger portion are bound for careers that are important to them outside of the potential short term gain of 'hot guy likes me'.

If I had not previously known and been in the position to date the absolute perfect man, I would not be dating. Many women are not so lucky. Fewer women are having sex. (the same is true of men, but this is in some ways a similar state of affairs to the past, in that men have always been well-represented in higher ed/demanding jobs... but everyone my age is feeling the economic pressure.)

So, you know, I don't want to have sex with an okay man. I don't want to have sex with any man who isn't more important to me than my studies or otherwise capable of working around them. I want to have sex with a steady boyfriend who doesn't pose a risk to me like an ONS would, and I want our lifestyles to work together, and if they don't, being happily single is worth more to me than being in an unhappy relationship or unhappy with shitty hookups. It's easier to pay my bills that way.

neubs · 2018-11-22T03:42:57+00:00

I think the problem is not as many men are fuckable anymore. Back in the day most men did heavy labor in factories, mines, and farms. Now we use machines for most of that and most men have jobs where they aren't active so they get fat and weak. Not everyone has the time or inclination to lift weights to try to replicate digging for coal or baling hay to get that type of body a woman would actually want to have sex with.

RoyalAugur92 · 2018-11-22T07:43:38+00:00

Women are less attracted to most men than they ever have been.

No, I think it's simply that women feel like they don't have to "give out" as much sex as they have before.

Electra_Cute · 2018-11-22T01:57:16+00:00

Sex is something that you do with another person, not something that is given out like money or diamonds.

Skratt · 2018-11-22T03:41:44+00:00

And this is a bad thing why? Women should be picky to motivate men to be better. Why would I want to sleep with a guy that can't provide for me or benefit me in some way?

OP you mention sex being supply/demand or transactional as I put it. So why would women want to give up sex to an ok man if men "need" sex so much? Giving up sex doesn't make men value us or want to commit to us.

GuyWithTheStalker · 2018-11-22T04:10:47+00:00

😬Yeeaaahh... Uhh...

Hypergamy doesn't really apply to sex so much as it applies to serious relationships and marriage.

Also, I looked up your claim that single people are having less sex now than before, and here is what i found.

I quote:

"The results suggest that Americans are having sex less frequently due to two primary factors: An increasing number of individuals without a steady or marital partner and a decline in sexual frequency among those with partners."

statsfodder · 2018-11-22T08:44:10+00:00

"Men" ... "parents are out"...

LoL hell no if you are still under your parent's roof you are a boy.

bunker_man · 2018-11-22T11:11:12+00:00

Its literally not a surprise at all.

People have more at home to interest them and live at home longer. Not sure what kind of math you are using but not everyone will have an equal amount of sex sneaking around parents as back when they'd have moved out. Many are afraid. Some just think its disrespectful to in parent's house. And for many others, the issue isn't just living at home but that now people hang out at home more. Games and the internet mean that even if you are hanging with friends it is more likely at someone's house than just on the streets somewhere. All these things add up to less sex. If you and a group of kids are at your mom's while she is noticeably home you are less likely to bang as back when you were out walking some bike trail. That's just simple math.

Also, people are more educated now. The truth is that making impulsive decisions like having sex without protection or going to some hippie commune and just banging whoever are less common. Teens don't magically have less access to protection now. They are just better educated, and so less willing to not bother not using it. Several decades ago a lot of people barely even knew protection was a thing, since sex education was abysmal.

Saying that guys have infinite sex drive is simply misleading. Even if guys are more willing, the word "less" designates that you have to find out what times they, while still willing in theory, are going to refrain or put it off. Less just means... well, less. A guy who now has slightly less times he will means there is less. And a guy whose friends, including female ones come over more than they go out ambling about the streets likely has less times he will. Your fantasy of "doing it when parents are out for a few minutes" is a fantasy, because many parents deliberately never go out when anyone is over in order to prevent this. and saying "well they can invite someone fast" is still less window of opportunity than someone who is out and about.

What's more, women being less willing if a guy lives at home is not just about attraction. Some people you know, actually are afraid of the consequences of being found banging at someone's house. More than they are horny. I sure as hell never had sex in my house. The consequences are simply too high. And at my girlfriend's house, she had a huge house, but was deathly afraid of being caught. So we only did anything there that wouldn't take a long time to "look natural" for if we heard someone coming.

You also have to factor in that now more people move around and its easier to keep in touch. If someone say, moves to a far away college for two years now, you can chat on facebook or whatever or text 24/7. And so if someone is moving away temporarily who you are in a relationship with, or even if you meet someone far away you are more likely to keep in contact and have an ldr til you can move together. Thus less sex since you are less likely to seek other people in the immediate sense.

You also have to compare sex with crime. Many forms of crime and gang activity have decreased. As has the sexual element associated with them. This is another thing to add onto the pile.

Also, more women work out of the home now. So they simply have less time to have sex. If you are focused on your career and whatnot then there are going to be things impeding you.

So the truth is simply that there's a lot of reasons. Acting like its some kind of collective refusal to see guys as attractive done by women makes no sense. It makes even less sense if you try to simultaneously believe that they seek out hotter males. Its not just less people having sex. Its less sex happening all around.

killallthenarcs · 2018-11-22T15:14:12+00:00

We're all of us, men and women, less bored in our own homes than at any time in history. Seriously, a lot of stories that end in sex involve someone being bored at some stage in the story, and deciding to go out and see what they can find to relieve the boredom. If you're not bored at home, you stay home.

KikiYuyu · 2018-11-23T01:21:03+00:00

innate hypergamy

Yep, you totally lost me. What garbage. Whittling down a complex, multi-faceted issue to: "Women only put out for money". This post is total shit.

[deleted] · 2018-11-22T04:42:18+00:00

If women are less attracted to men, it would have more to do with the low T, video gaming, overweight dudes they have to choose from. A friend of ours (30) is dating a 21 year old that I've become quite close with. She has zero interest in boys her age because they're all fat and lazy. She doesn't have sky high standards, she'd simply rather go without when her options are gross.

flamingoinghome · 2018-11-22T09:12:12+00:00

Your starting premise is stupid. Even here on PPD, we talk about testosterone rates dropping, usually by saying how this makes men less attractive. Well, guess what T also regulates? That's right, libido. If men have less testosterone....maybe they have lower libidos...and aren't out chasing girls as much...because they are less horny.

Also, honestly, the idea that people might be opting to just not fuck, even if they ARE horny, because they think the risks (STIs, unplanned pregnancies, causing drama, idk) aren't worth it, isn't THAT crazy. I've seen guys turn down attractive women because they didn't want the drama that came with sleeping with that particular woman. It's not that weird.

Uncommon_Sensed_1234 · 2018-11-22T02:04:43+00:00

So, you still live your parents.

CaeruleaTigris · 2018-11-22T09:43:54+00:00

To repeat the same thing that's already been said ten times here, improve yourself. Women are not going to get wet for a man who sees that something has gotten harder and instead of trying harder just gives up completely. (Not to mention, if you refuse to inprove yourself for someone else how can you expect them to improve themselves for you?). The lot of you are seeing sex as an economic transaction, when, really, it's an EVOLUTIONARY transaction. Women like and want sex, but why, from a biological standpoint, would they risk having the responsibility of carrying and raising a man's child whose traits they do not approve of when that risk could result in their own ability to pass along genes becoming threatened? You can complain all you want but it won't change the fact that adaption and evolution is driven by natural selection and therefore survival of the fittest. A common misconception is that "fittest" means most physically fit, when really it is "survival of the fittest trait/phenotype for the environment that a particular organism lives in" so if you're not driven in a world where only the most persistent and driven people succeed... I'm sure you catch my drift. And if it seems like I'm putting all the blame on men, I don't know why y'all aren't more discerning with your choices yourselves. I suppose it's because women ensure they pass along their genes by being selective (because our reproduction is a lot more laborious, biologically costly, and we have a much shorter time to do it in) and men ensure they pass along their genes by fucking what they can.

And for those of you who point out Japan's declining birth rate and aging population - Japan has some of the most feminine, submissive and in my opinion beautiful women on Earth. So how does the "why should men improve themselves and work harder when the product is crap to begin with" stand up in that situation? I would suggest a possible reason to be the fact that they work such long hours that they have no time to satisfy a romantic relationship and therefore find it easier and more fulfilling to spend their spare time playing dating sims which gives the illusion or companionship without the issues that arise with legitimate human interaction.

And if you complain but aren't willing to work to improve your situation, you do not deserve sympathy. No one loses out if you do not pass your genes on but you (because sex is ultimately about reproduction more than it is about sexual gratification), and this lack of drive to get the pussy is ultimately going to prove itself to be a prime example of natural selection. The Japanese people are wonderful and produce lots of great shit but if their ethnicity ends up disappearing from the human species it will be no one's fault but their's.

To conclude, perhaps rather than seeing men as the consumer and women as a product, a better analogy would be seeing men as the potential employee and women as the employer. Just as it's easier to get a job in a business with lower standards or one that is simply more desperate for employees, so too is it easier to fuck a woman who is more desperate for a chance to reproduce (or a thot). People in the modern world no longer see children as a necessity like most do jobs however (although less people see jobs as of much as a necessity as they used to, as well), while in the past having children likely meant having someone to look after you when you got old and senile and could no longer work to support yourself.

[deleted] · 2018-11-22T06:16:40+00:00

It's funny how this is framed in such a way to avoid placing any responsibility on men whatsoever

MMDT · 2018-11-22T11:54:54+00:00

There’s no way OP isn’t a virgin. This kind of blamey shit is why Red Pill Manosphere is so off base with reality.

Anybody who actually has experienced a healthy relationship just sees clear as day how incorrect this all is.

For starters, women like to Fuck. In a lot of cases, just as much as men, even more. Hop on over to r/deadbedrooms and look at how many women are frustrated that their male SOs aren’t interested in sex with them.

I do agree with the fact that women are less attracted to most men than they used to be, but that has nothing to do with hypergamy or women’s increased status. It’s because our generation of men can’t take care of ourselves, lack ambition, and would rather sit inside and play video games than form connections with people.

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TriadFamilyTimes · 2018-11-22T17:33:19+00:00

I agree with your bolded statement. That I think is entirely true.

But your analysis of attraction is (as always with red pill) one dimensional and thus pretty much worthless. There are many factors to attraction and women rate them all differently, so what has changed?

The changes in attraction are seen on more than just Tinder. They are seen in face to face interactions and they are seen in places which focus more on words than pictures online. In every arena of dating, across all demographics of subjectively labeled "attractiveness" standards are changing.

It is true that within the Tinder world, looks matter. Or, to be more specific, presentation matters. First impressions matter. And with Tinder, that picture is your ENTIRE first impression. They have to swipe up to read to form a second. Trying to generalize about attraction on a platform specifically designed around being able to pick someone without reading a thing about them is a flawed idea. If you had to swipe up past the profile to be able to swipe left or right on every person, Tinder statistics would change alot. Writing would become much more important for the first impression.

And then, you don't get to talk to anyone if you do not make a good impression. Ugly is not the only reason people swipe left. Depression face will get you swiped left. Taking an ugly picture in shit clothes will get you swiped left. If a picture is worth a thousand words I don't get why people think that physical attractiveness is the only thing conveyed by a picture.

So what's changing across all aspects?

Go look at /r/relationships. Go look at the hot topics there. Go see how often you see similar advice repeated across multiple commenters in threads with 1800 comments. There is a collective wisdom about relationships being formed daily on the internet. New conversations about how people act and what is and isn't ok in relationships. Articles are passed around. Doctors are cited. Facts are the basis for many of these conversations.

Now go to twitter and look up "Bye Felipe", a page dedicated to the shit dudes of the internet. Women sharing the shitty messages they get from men online. There are many pages like that, as well. Women are talking with each other about their experiences without male input. Sharing stories and cautionary tales and advice.

A collective idea of relationships and dealbreakers has been formed. Any person with access to Reddit or any of dozens of other sites can access this collective idea. Can be directed to articles published by people with PHDs on relationships, abuse, mental illness, and any number of specific lines of information about specific issues their partner might have, from being neurodivergent to having a chronic physial illness. This collective idea of relationships has spanned multiple aspects of online life and as it is fact based and can't be directly contradicted, everyone who learns it openly accepts it.

And the standards, the absolute minimum set forth by these ideas we have, are standards many men fall far short of.

As more women grow up in a feminist world where 12 year olds can have just as much access as 32 year olds to go read relationship forums and ask questions pretending to be 18, as these ideas continue to propagate, more women refuse to accept shitty dudes. Girls graduating into college now are ten times more prepared for what adult men are going to be like now than they were when I graduated from high school fifteen years ago. I've met 16 year old girls who are already done with men's shit. Times are changing.

Adapt or die. When evolution is social, refusing to adapt is succumbing to natural selection.

iceicle999 · 2018-11-22T18:42:08+00:00

I like how the same people blaming men for the "problem" are the same people who fervently deny in other threads that men are expected to adhere to certain standards of being men. This is incredible.

[deleted] · 2018-11-23T19:39:09+00:00

Women are less attracted to most men than they ever have been.

And women are providing the least amount of incentive to work hard to be attractive for them than ever before.

totallyjoyfulhustler · 2018-11-22T02:04:46+00:00

Women are less attracted to most men than they ever have been.

Pretty much.

CaptJohnLukeDiscard · 2018-11-22T03:19:09+00:00

Men’s testosterone levels are plummeting dramatically versus historical standards. Test is a primary driver of many things, some good and some not. However, historically attractive measures such as musculature, status, confidence, etc. are all tied significantly to test.

Basically, if you accept that the supply of sex is lower (which I don’t necessarily agree with) then one potential area to look at is men’s hormonal health.

mariyasardine · 2018-11-24T18:55:12+00:00

I thought you were gonna say something about how women will put up with less now and that for many, sex isn't a given and that they need an emotional connection and a partner who isn't selfish and isn't a little kid upset he can't eat all the fruit snacks before dinner and blah blah blah... But whew! SO glad we aren't using compassion and understanding as well as self respect and respect for others to help us think critically.

321PK · 2018-11-22T02:38:12+00:00

If people are having less emotional connections because of dating apps

Sloppy logic

OfSpock · 2018-11-22T09:17:34+00:00

Women tried hook up culture and didn't like it. Also, obesity epidemic.

draggin_balls · 2018-11-22T13:03:27+00:00

Great theory, but based on zero empirical evidence and plays to a great many biases

I_had_mine · 2018-11-22T11:45:10+00:00

Cringe post number 10,536 on this sub

MMDT · 2018-11-22T09:42:03+00:00

You’re totally confused. If women are the reason for lower rates of sex is because they now understand they are under NO obligation to give out sex. To anyone. Ever. They have sex when they desire sex. Women used to “give out” sex. now they participate in the act of sex for their own pleasure. This doesn’t mean no woman will ever have sex when not in the mood because it’s just easier (LTR), but primarily sex for a woman is about her pleasure as much as his.

MMDT · 2018-11-22T04:22:11+00:00

I think those surveys saying millennials are having less sex is bullshit. The people being surveyed are having less sex, the people having the most sex aren't in those surveys. Making the study redundant from the get go. Needs to be random to be valid not representative.

lucky_beast · 2018-11-22T18:56:34+00:00

These threads always cast women in such a shitty, uncharitable light and then, for some bizarre reason, all of the female posters rush in to confirm that that shitty, uncharitable characterization of them is absolutely correct. Kind of sad really. That's an unrelated observation.

Less sex isn't because of a smaller dating pool because of economic reasons. Lots of broke losers absolutely drowning in pussy. The couch surfing Chad is a red pill archetype for a reason.

The reason is because men are out of shape pussies. Obesity is rising with men and women, but a woman can be an absolutely revolting morbidly obese creature and still get dick no problem. Despite their constant whining about how difficult they imagine their lives are it has never been easier and standards of decency have never been lower for being a woman.

An overweight, balding, anxious, effeminate man is going to get nothing. So it becomes easier for a lot of men to just stay home and jerk off.

It's a meme but if men hit the gym, trimmed that neckbeard, and took a shower this entire trend of herbivore men would disappear. If men had a drop of self respect and refuse to sleep with any disgusting thing that wanders across the bar women too would have to get their shit together. At the moment we're in a race to the bottom and it's on men to stop that.