CMV: Women lie about the reason they don't like "nice guys".

wtknight · 2018-10-30T14:04:00+00:00

Women like confident guys, and confidence doesn’t necessarily equal aggression. In fact, many women like confident but non-aggressive guys, like my wife, for instance (she actually thinks that I’m too aggressive). A guy who engages in the typical nice guy entitlement behaviors is working on a system of covert contracts in his own head, which is inherently unconfident to women and turns them off.

Nodoxxintoxin · 2018-10-30T13:42:39+00:00

I can’t speak for all women, but here are my observations.

Women don’t want to be submissive as much as we want to be desired. The difference between being raped and being ravished. Some women enjoy being submissive, especially in the bedroom.I’ve never been especially submissive to anyone.
We don’t like guys who are overly thirsty. Most women don’t want to be seen as just a wet hole. We know that the crack of dawn isn’t even safe around a horny young guy. We want you to like and want US, not just our bobs and vagene. If this concept is confusing, see #1 above.
We do like guys who are “aggressive “. We don’t want guys who are needy. We don’t like guys who are overly passive. No one wants to have sex with a guy who needs a mommy, not a lover. Most people, both male and female, will want an engaged, confident partner. Not someone who can’t be bothered to leave the game console in the basement and go exercise.
When we tell you we just want to be friends, it’s our polite way of telling you that you don’t meet our minimum standard of attraction. I don’t care how alpha you think you are, you’re not getting anywhere if you’re not attractive to us. Move on.

tickledpic · 2018-10-30T13:52:08+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

Yes. If you don't have any competitive advantage, it's your job to develop it. You are not entitled to anything except fair consideration.

Loban8990 · 2018-10-31T04:29:20+00:00

Women love nice guys. I see it all the time. When they are done riding the CC or hit the wall they search out those very same nice guys they rejected in thier primes.

bonusfruit · 2018-10-30T16:18:34+00:00

Nice guys went from invisible to despised with blinding speed. Back in like 2013 a bunch of feminist blogs decreed that nice guys who express anything like frustration at sexual rejection were necessarily pretending to be nice for sex, entitled, even dangerous. It spread faster than any meme. I even remember seeing some articles explain why physically abusive assholes were a safer option than "nice guys". Ever since then, it's the universal opinion. Everyone on both sides of the gender debate and whichever color pill are happy to shit on the "nice guy". gg, feminists. gg

sublimemongrel · 2018-10-30T15:51:10+00:00

I hate the word “entitled” - it gets thrown around too often and just triggers people and they end up arguing emotionally rather than the underlying concept intended to be conveyed.

Regardless, when it comes to human interaction and interpersonal relationships, there is a problem if you take your own behaviors and intent towards someone else and create expectations from that person. If you live life that way you will probably often find yourself disappointed. Because unfortunately even if we invest in someone greatly, it does not guarantee we will get the same level of investment back. Even if we have certain intentions towards someone it does not guarantee their own intentions towards us will be in alignment.

“Nice guys” may come off as “entitled” for this reason. It is also seen as deceptive if the strategy is “hey I’m here to be your friend” then sometime down the line he makes it clear he’s really into getting into your pants. I personally just think some shape of “friends first” is actually very common so I don’t tend to think it’s intentionally deceptive, but I can see how others may get there even if it’s not true.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-10-30T13:26:54+00:00

Nice guys are using a girls strategy to fuck girls.

Women lie about the reason

Okay, you now want nice girls to act like men and be direct with you? Otherwise they are lying?

A lot of them just don't want to admit it

Most women are indirect communicators. Some might say risk averse.

so they latch on to the whole "entitled nice guy who is only nice because he wants sex, once rejected turns into an asshole" trope

Let me translate for you. Nice guys, you either come off as weak children or dude chicks, which are two groups of humans they don't want to fuck.

At best you are selling a product that there is NO market for. But please, pressure them into filling out this very uncomfortable and intrusive survey so we can better sell you shit you clearly don't want.

jackandjill22 · 2018-10-30T15:05:14+00:00

They feel guilty for rejecting the guy so they try to shift blame to him. That way they can avoid feeling guilty.

madcockatiel · 2018-10-30T13:54:14+00:00

Here’s the thing: There’s aggressive men, and then there’s passive aggressive men. Nice Guys TM are the latter. They pretend to be nice, then flip their lid when rejected. It’s the fakery that women object to, not the niceness. A man who is nice and stays nice after being rejected is fine. A man who is a dick and stays a dick after being rejected will be called a dick. A man who is upfront about his desires (“aggressive”) and nice after being rejected is ideal. But it’s the duplicitous nature of the “nice guy” who shows his true dickish colors only after being rejected that women find most objectionable. It’s not a grand conspiracy to hide women’s true sexual preferences. It’s that women, and people in general, don’t like liars.

MGTOWtoday · 2018-10-30T21:11:48+00:00

Women endlessly lie about just about everything. Everything is a deflection related to their insecurities and shame. Once understood it becomes easier to manipulate them. If you vocally criticize a woman and ignore her reaction to that criticism then she’ll be putty in your hands. Before you know it you can get her to do backflips for you. But it all starts with refusing to ever be nice to them.

tictacti1 · 2018-10-30T21:26:22+00:00

Liking masculine, strong men has nothing to do with niceness. I pretty much only date athletic men, and they are all perfectly nice.

If a man isn’t getting any of his advances reciprocated, it is NOT because he is “too nice.” It’s probably because he’s actually an asshole, or has issues when it comes to physical appearance.

handklap · 2018-10-30T13:10:17+00:00

What's interesting is that not only do the vast majority of men, mostly blue pilled, brainwashed their entire childhood by mothers and teachers, do have a sense of entitlement, but a strong desire to avoid being the creepy guy, avoid any appearance of being too pushy, etc.

officerkondo · 2018-10-30T13:11:29+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

Why are you entitled to a job for simply applying? What skills do you have that demonstrate you are competent to even do the job? Further, what do you have that differentiates you from the thousands of other applicants?

Women are attracted to aggressive men and are turned off by behaviors that indicate a man is low T.

Do you know any Chads? When you think of them, are they men that you would describe as "aggressive"?

women don't want to admit that they don't want an "equal" partner but in fact a dominant high SMV man who they can submit to.

Women want men who have stable jobs, who work out sometimes, who can hold a conversation, who are confident, likely more extroverted, but most importantly monogamous. Any man who is all of these things is a top 10% man. That's why women struggle - because there simply aren't enough men who meet what many argue are "basic adult requirements".

LeJacquelope · 2018-10-30T19:56:35+00:00

Proof that even feminists prefer bad boys - at least they do when they're being honest. Most feminists and women in general are not honest.

killallthenarcs · 2018-10-30T23:03:35+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

They do, actually. If you're going around saying "where's my job I've been applying but not getting anywhere" then one of the first things people tell you is you've got to change yourself to be the person the employer wants... get more qualifications, volunteer in that field, do work experience etc. If you then say you shouldn't have to change, you will be told quite firmly you are not entitled to a job.

admiral_snugglebutt · 2018-10-30T15:11:45+00:00

Dude, /r/niceguys is a thing because it happens all the time. It's ridiculous how many men will get angry bordering on violent from being rejected. It's something girls have to navigate around all the time. If a girl let's thems down easy, they go "why was she so vague?! Why didn't she just come out and say what she meant?" And if she's up front about it, they go "why are you such a bitch?"

AutoModerator · 2018-10-30T13:00:13+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

ayeayefitlike · 2018-10-30T13:58:06+00:00

Women are attracted to aggressive men and are turned off by behaviors that indicate a man is low T.

Not necessarily true. I know quite a few women who are scared of aggressive men, and personally I’m pretty independent and have dumped guys for trying to boss me around. No time for that.

would people tell him “you’re not entitled to a job!!”

Yup, tbh. Nobody is entitled to a job - you have to learn job skills etc, and how to interview well, and also swot up on your prospective employer and what you can offer them. At least if you want more than a shelf stacking job. So yeah, the analogy works but not the way you intended.

Whodunnit88 · 2018-10-30T14:17:48+00:00

I thought that when a woman calls a "nice guy" entitled it's in the context of said "nice guy" getting angry with her for exercising her right to reject him.

The "nice guy" thinks that by just being nice to her then the woman he is pursuing will want to sleep with him. That he is entitled to sex because in his view he's put in the hard work. Which we all know is baloney.

[deleted] · 2018-10-30T16:13:43+00:00

Women don't want to fuck desperate beggars.

jonadragonslay · 2018-10-30T19:22:32+00:00

I think nice just can't "handle" rejection. They can't process it without taking it personally and then react as an ego protection mechanism. The men and women who seem to let rejection roll off their back are no doubt dying inside but are able to move on and mask their feelings with a nice demeanor. Also, other available options play into a person's reaction. Nice guys have no options so it's literally the end for them to get rejected by that one. And as a veteran rejectee (36M), I have never had a woman give me a kind and direct rejection. It's usually ghosting or some other form of ignoring. Only the hot ones are direct and that always seems like it's to be rude to vent frustration that some incel would dare talk to her rather than let me let this guy down swiftly for both our sakes. Everyone just need to work on their communication skills.

darla10 · 2018-10-30T14:52:28+00:00

Women like confident men who are charming. Those guys are frequently authentically nice because they are happy and confident. They don’t stay butthurt if a woman rejects them.

The other “nice guys” are not nice at all. They are desperate, angry and bitter.

Hoogstens · 2018-10-30T13:45:13+00:00

"nice guy" is a pointless, vague description.

it's idiotic to use it to classify anything beyond the action of a person, you can do something nice but what does it really mean be a "nice guy"?

It's used by people who are lazy or can't accurately describe what they mean --- depending on the context it can mean boring, meek, agreeable, sweet, unattractive etc.

TheBookOfSeil · 2018-10-30T14:25:17+00:00

“Nice guys” are simply men who are frustrated because they are trying to find a girlfriend and do not know how. Therefore, they will do transactional things because they believe or were convinced that “this is how you get a girlfriend,” only to find out later that that’s not how it works. Hence, their frustration and attitude at rejection.

Men are not entitled to getting things from women for displaying certain behaviors, but women can’t say exactly what they want either.

I guess you could say there is an honesty issue on both sides, even if both are being dishonest unintentionally.

CainPrice · 2018-10-30T14:45:59+00:00

It's important not to confuse two different types of guys: A guy who is actually nice, and a guy who is a "nice guy" in quotation marks.

There are actually four kinds of guys: guys who are not nice, guys who are actually nice but fake being assholes to get girls, guys who are genuinely nice, and guys who act nice to get girls (e.g., "nice guys").

Women have a sixth sense when it comes to sniffing out genuineness. They can tell real nice from nice with an agenda. But this sixth sense has a blind spot, as I'll explain below.

If a guy is super-hot and attractive and gets her juices going, it doesn't matter whether he is nice for real, pretending to be nice, an asshole for real, or pretending to be an asshole. He is sexually attractive. His sexual interest is appreciated (assuming that the woman is looking for a hook-up at the time). In fact, if the woman is primarily looking for something casual, the fact that he isn't nice for real might actually be a plus because then she won't catch feelings and want to actually date him.

However, if a woman is not sexually attracted to a guy, then the opposite is true: it matters a -lot- whether he's an asshole, nice for real, or being fake nice to try to get girls.

Like I said above, women can sniff a guy who's being nice because he likes her versus a guy who's being nice because he wants to a mile away.

If you like her and you're nice to her because you like her, and she doesn't like you back, that's creepy. And "nice guys" like this wonder why she keeps having sex with guys she's actually attracted to when these nice guys are so much nicer to her. That's an entitled mindset.

However, like I said above, this sixth sense women have for sniffing out guys who are nice in general versus guys who are being nice because they like her has a blind spot: If you like her, she can't tell the difference between real niceness and "nice guy" niceness.

That's the gray area that pisses off manosphere nice guys. They're pretty nice dudes in general. They're nice to everybody. But then there's this girl they like and they're also nice to her.

If a girl knows you like her, and you're being nice to her, that's going to smell like a "nice guy" who's being nice because he likes her, even if the guy is also nice in general.

If you're a guy who is nice in general, you should be nice to everybody except girls you like. When it comes to girls you like, you should be honest about your intentions instead of hanging around in the periphery of their lives being nice to them. Otherwise, you become indistinguishable from a "nice guy".

dylang92 · 2018-10-30T13:39:32+00:00

See I think you’re kind of right, but you’re forgetting something. Does the girl think the guy is hot or attracted to him? That will change the perception of the guy’s actions, whether he’s a “Niceguy” or an actually guy who just happens to be nice.

KikiYuyu · 2018-10-30T16:21:16+00:00

"Nice guys" think that being generally likable should be all it takes to get in a relationship. The problem with that is, there are hundreds of millions of nice, likable people.

openoids · 2018-10-30T18:19:26+00:00

Allegedely, 80 perc of females reproduce while 40 perc of males do..historically speaking. Men are the disposable sex and their success is a bit like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Women tend to be insular in cliques and groups (not that men are that different) and seem to find cohesiveness in their mutual disdain for the "losers." These losing outliers are the tribes "dead wood" who are not viewed as offering anything of value and therefore need to be expunged. So with enough mental gymnastics we sometimes find them using terms like "entitled to sex" for simply pursuing it in civil, cordial manner. Of course, there are men who cross the line and do act entitled and ultimately irate because they made some petty sacrifice. I am not referring to them. Based on the high number of women that inhabit the "nice guy" subreddit, it seems like a collective hate fest where there is real glee in coming together to mock the losers and somehow still believing they are doing society a favor.

mistresswhat · 2018-10-30T19:30:14+00:00

There's a difference between being sad about romantic rejection and directing a huge amount of rage at someone who rejected you. The latter indicates potentially dangerous instability, no shit we don't like it. It's also QUITE A SHOCK when someone who seemed genuinely lovely turns on a dime and starts spewing insults in response to a polite rejection -- and that's something a very large portion of women have experienced at least once.

The post-rejection "nice guy" is in fact super fucking aggressive so by your logic ladies should be swooning over him.

LUClEN · 2018-10-30T23:32:24+00:00

Your conclusion is too broad. I agree with the statement that women dislike men who are pushovers or unassertive, and that this suggests that women tend to prefer aggressive men, however, there is a particular kind of domineering manhood that women prefer. It is not a broad conception of aggression that women like, but rather, it is a kind that indicates that a man is strong and a good protector. I made a post about women not actually disliking nice men, pointing out that the distaste is not for their niceness but instead for their weakness. Women love strong men; women yearn for men who are stronger than they. Uncontrolled, infinitely refracting aggression makes people feel unsafe, and this is not ideal. A kind of tactical, expertly expressed aggression is the trait which better fits your conclusion, then.

[deleted] · 2018-10-31T07:40:53+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

Yes I would and have.

chronoventer · 2018-11-01T14:37:17+00:00

I don’t like aggressive men. I like nice men. “Nice guys” aren’t nice, though. I mean, read your post! You’re being degrading towards women, and you ARE acting entitled. Women are not equivalent to jobs. We’re PEOPLE.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-10-30T13:43:48+00:00

doing nice things for other people specifically to fuck them is entitlement you dont deserve anything

VermiciousKnidzz · 2018-10-30T14:36:13+00:00

you're confusing Nice Guy^tm with guys that are literally nice.

Nice Guys^TM become aggressive when rejected, complain about women all being the same, have oceans of pent up angry misogyny flowing in their brains, and see relationships as transactional (if I'm nice enough, surely someone will be my girlfriend!)

some women want aggressive men, some women want calm and collected men, some want a mix. as soon as you start thinking of half the population as a monolith you'll start coming up with circular reasoning and before you know it you're angry at women for shit you made up in your head.

goatismycopilot · 2018-10-30T14:53:46+00:00

A lot of nice guys are not that nice, they aren't super self aware and it is very obvious they want a specific thing. They do not "turn into" an asshole they already are one, it is easy to see the difference. In fact almost any time I have met somebody who assured me what a nice guy they were it was almost universally the exact opposite. On the other hand any time somebody told me they were an asshole they were generally telling the truth.

Pesky_Gibbon · 2018-10-30T15:36:14+00:00

See, it's possible to be both kind AND decisive, dominant, aggressive, etc. Some of the hugest assholes I've ever met are passive-aggressive, grovelling, self-professed "nice guys." Some women just want an equal, it's true. So they'll take the closest thing they can get, which often happens to be an outward asshole who doesn't give a flying fuck about what anyone thinks.

Quality women don't want to be put on pedestals. We don't want to be worshiped. We don't want you to lick our goddamned feet. We want to be part of a team, damn you.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-10-30T15:39:39+00:00

Women like aggressive men, the opposite of a nice guy.

That's just something TeRPs tell themselves so that they can be assholes without feeling guilty about it, but this wouldn't work unless they also lowered their expectations on women by believing in AWALT.

Daily reminder: AWALT isn't a truth about female nature; in fact it actually describes a minority of women. It's simply the type of women that doesn't see RP behavior as a red flag and the only type of women that TRPers come into actual contact with.

TRPers will grasp at any straws to prove this theory right. They simply desperately need the idea that all women love dark triad assholes to be true and will ignore anything that proves them wrong.

For example there's this one study that showed that dark triad men have more short-term mating partners. For TRP this was all they needed to know to conclude that women are in fact attracted to DT men, but this is just one of many unsubstantiated assumptions that are the basis of TRP theory.

This study didn't show that women are attracted to DT men. It only showed that they have a higher number of short term partners, but also gave several reasons

assortive mating

They hook up with partners who are just as bad or just as DT as them.

lower standards

People that are DT have lower standards than others, especially in regards to kindness.

exploitation

They create contexts in which they can more easily take what they need.

manipulation

They present themselves as nice, because they have the best chances as long as others do not notice that they are DT assholes.

If TRP would have ever read this study (instead of just a single line of the abstract) they would have noticed that it doesn't actually supports their theory that women go crazy for DT men.

And there's a couple more studies that support this:

https://www.psypost.org/2018/10/study-psychopaths-are-attracted-to-other-psychopaths-52414

New psychology research suggests that most people do not view psychopathic personality traits as particularly desirable in a romantic partner. But the study also provides evidence that psychopaths are more attracted to other psychopaths.

To a large extent, our findings support a ‘like attracts like’ hypothesis for psychopathic traits.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201605/do-narcissists-feather-flock-together

Maaß et al. concluded that narcissists “like what they have” (p. 378). Narcissists are not only tolerant of narcissism in their friends, they also are not turned off by the selfishness, arrogance, and bossiness that would drive non-narcissists away.

TRP is nothing more than a self-reinforcing cycle: act shitty and attract AWALTy partners.

women don't want to admit that they don't want an "equal" partner

But equal partners have more and better sex. How do you explain that?

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2016/08/want-more-sex-split-household-chores

Heterosexual couples who share household chores have sex more often than couples in which the woman does the bulk of the housework, according to new research by a Cornell demographer and her colleagues.

But it’s not as simple as “grab a mop and get busy.” Egalitarian couples have sex more often because they feel a greater sense of fairness in the relationship and higher satisfaction with its quality.

“Sharing the load is beneficial. Couples who have a more equal division of labor seem to be happier, and that’s reflected in various ways, only one of which is sex,” said co-author Sharon Sassler, a professor of policy analysis and management who studies family and gender. “It’s kind of a no-brainer. Contributing more does make a partner appreciate what the other partner is doing.”

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225145092_The_Interpersonal_Power_of_Feminism_Is_Feminism_Good_for_Romantic_Relationships

Using self-reported feminism and perceived partners’ feminism as predictors of relationship health, results revealed that having a feminist partner was linked to healthier relationships for women. Additionally, men with feminist partners reported greater relationship stability and sexual satisfaction in the online survey. Finally, there was no support for negative feminist stereotypes (i.e., that feminists are single, lesbians, or unattractive)

https://contemporaryfamilies.org/sex-equalmarriages-advisory/

Sassler reports, “Contemporary couples who adhere to a more egalitarian division of labor are the only couples who have experienced an increase in sexual frequency compared to their counterparts of the past. Other groups – including those where the woman does the bulk of the housework – have experienced declines in sexual frequency. This finding is particularly notable given reports indicating that sexual frequency has generally declined worldwide over the past few decades.”

The predictors of marital success have changed profoundly in the past 50 years, argues historian Stephanie Coontz, because our ideals of heterosexual love have changed. “Love used to be seen as the attraction of opposites, and each partner in a marriage specialized in a unique set of skills, resources, and emotions that, it was believed, the other gender lacked. Today, love is based on shared interests, activities, and emotions. Where difference was once the basis of desire, equality is increasingly becoming erotic.”

“Sassler reports on other work that adds to the significance of her study,” notes Coontz. “Her study–and others–reflect more equalized power between men and women. In marriages of the 1950s and 1960s, wives often reported having sex more often than they wanted because they were dependent on their husbands. Now that women feel free to say no, they are more likely to say yes when they feel the relationship is fair.”

but in fact a dominant high SMV man who they can submit to.

Engaging in a submissive sexual role hampers women’s sexual arousal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16513803/

To test whether engaging in submissive sexual behaviors predicted sexual arousability, we regressed sexual arousability on the submissive sexual behavior index. As predicted, the more women reported engaging in submissive sexual behaviors, the less arousability they reported from various sexual activities.

To test whether engaging in submissive sexual behaviors predicted difficulty becoming physically aroused, we regressed women’s reported difficulty with arousal on the submissive sexual behavior index. As predicted, the more women reported engaging in submissive sexual behaviors, the more they reported difficulty becoming aroused.

The results of Study 4 suggest that women’s engagement in submissive behaviors predicted lowered arousability and more difficulty becoming aroused in the sexual situation. Our mediation analyses imply that the link between submissive sexual behavior and difficulty with arousal is mainly driven by the facts that submissive people are less autonomous and less autonomous people have greater difficulty becoming aroused. Thus, women who engage in submissive behavior may experience an inability to express their inner desires, perhaps acting instead from perceived pressure and obligations.

In Study 2, women who strongly associated sex with submission reported more submissive sexual behavior.

In Study 4, women’s submissive sexual behavior predicted less reported sexual arousability and greater difficulty becoming physically aroused. These effects were mediated by sexual autonomy. Collectively, these findings support the proposition that women learn to associate sex with their personal submission and that this association undermines sexual autonomy, thereby reducing sexual arousal.

Women seem to internalize the female sexual role of submission. In the process of fitting their sexual behavior and desires into this cultural mold, women may unwittingly undermine their sexual arousal. Elucidation the ways in which the adoption of a submissive sexual role affects sexual autonomy therefore has the potential to enhance our understanding of women’s sexual dysfunction and to provide ways of improving women’s sexual satisfaction, function, and overall well-being.

starseedlove · 2018-10-30T19:31:52+00:00

Let me try to change your view.

Women are attracted to aggressive men and are turned off by behaviors that indicate a man is low T. Current western culture is basically ruled by feminism and women don't want to admit that they don't want an "equal" partner but in fact a dominant high SMV man who they can submit to.

For starters, this is a story you are telling yourself and believing. Try asking yourself "is this really true? Maybe I'm wrong? Maybe there's something I'm not seeing."

This is a narrative you are choosing to believe. I want you to allow for the possibility that it's not as it seems.

Second, take a look at your own pain and feelings of rejection. Know that these feelings are backing up the narrative you choose to believe. What if you were able to heal those feelings of pain and rejection? How would your worldview shift?

What if you met a girl who liked you for being nice? Would you reject her because she doesn't fit your worldview? Would you assume she's lying?

What if you could experience a "no" from a girl, but it didn't actually hurt, but gave you clarity and relief? When you can authentically express your desires and are comfortable with them, a "no" doesn't hurt. There's a bit of a let down, but I usually feel respect for the girl for staying true to her own desires.

And from my experience, there ARE women who appreciate a more introverted, sensitive guy. Look into the personality types. INFP girls can be submissive and kinky and are turned off by "chad" type men. You might see them at a Renaissance Festival or in the BDSM community with a Dom who is equally geeky but isn't ashamed about his sexuality.

That's the thing, it comes down to your own shame about yourself. Heal the shame and learn to accept yourself as you are rather than try to "improve" by being more aggressive to suit some abstract ideal of what "she" wants. Because even if you manage to trick her into thinking you're more aggressive, your actual sensitive or "nice guy" qualities will come out. And since you hold shame about them, it will turn her off.

Get comfortable with your own neediness. Learn to love and accept yourself and have respect for your needs. Take responsibility for yourself and desires. When you can own your desires and needs, you'll notice the girls will respond in kind. Almost in direct proportion to how much you value and accept yourself.

I highly recommend checking out the BDSM community. There are lots of conventionally unattractive men (and women) who are enjoying satisfying sex lives. Many are nerdy and geeky and aren't interested in typical vanilla relationships, chads, or clubs.

Consider going to sexual healing workshops, cuddle parties (look them up), or tantra events. They might introduce you to looking at sex in a brand new way that might suit your style.

I also recommend reading all the books by Alan Roger Currie. He talks about being "Mode One" which is up front and straightforward. Mode 2 and 3 are the nice guy modes. And Mode 4 is Incel/Elliot Rodger Territory. And it all comes down to how much you try to hide your intentions and how manipulative you behave as a result. Nice Guy behavior is manipulative and sneaky (for good reason, to protect themselves against rejection and shame). But once you heal those wounds, your behavior naturally becomes more authentic and honest. And that is attractive to everyone, not just women.

I hope that helps.

says_harsh_things · 2018-10-30T14:27:54+00:00

There are a lot of things that turn us on (as either gender) that really arent good for us long term.

Both genders lie about what turns us on in an attempt not to be manipulated by it.

But women dont like "nice guys" because they just arent attracted to them. Nothing special.

[deleted] · 2018-10-30T16:38:43+00:00

I just want to know before I go I respond further.. What do you think being a "nice guy" is?

agloelita · 2018-10-30T18:10:45+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

People do actually do that. To play up a stereotype thats what babyboomers do to millenials who are having a hard time finding a job.

Women are attracted to aggressive men and are turned off by behaviors that indicate a man is low T.

If women are attracted to aggressive men then why aren't more women falling in love with their abusers and their rapists?

Current western culture is basically ruled by feminism

Dr.Ford is basically a social pariah while Kavanaugh is praised. Tampons and pads are taxed as a "luxury item" in America while Viagra isn't. No matter the legality of it women who get abortions are judged cruely. Juris prudence would suggest that the area under a woman's skirt is "public" and its therefore okay to take pictures of it without asking anyone's consent. Wow okay. I'm not saying men aren't having a rough time. I'm curious as to why comparisons need be made at all?

women don't want to admit that they don't want an "equal" partner but in fact a dominant high SMV man who they can submit to.

Oprah, Kylie Jenner, Madonna, Jennifer Lopez, Kristen Bell, and many many others would beg to differ. These women arguably tower over their male partners in social standing and networth .

The truth is this whole "nice guys are entitled" is just a clever technique by women to take the focus off themselves.

I cant speak for all women but i have come to understand "nice guy" is a title given to guys that call themselves "nice" or something to that effect. If a guy were TRULY nice then they wouldn't need to call themselves as such because it would just be plainly apparent. The second part is if one were truly a nice guy then he would respect a woman's rejection of him could be because of a myriad of reasons and he may or may not ask why but a genuinely good guy would respect it. After all why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you or has standards that you don't agree are fair or logical. Nice guys are called entitled because they often treat being nice as a currency and that if you are nice to a woman enough then she is SUPPOSED to like you. Women are people and niceness although important is not a currency by which we obtain people in any sense.

Also, isn't it funny that we can no longer use the term "nice guy" unironically? What is even the term we use for genuine nice guys who are nice to everybody not just the women they want to bang?

A decent guy.

Your statement seems to use the term "nice guy" but doesn't seem to mean what it connotes. It seems like you don't use the term "nice guy" the way a lot of people do in terms of men and women and dating and any form of relationship. So I would like to ask what does "nice guy" mean to you? How do you use it?

BajaBlast90 · 2018-10-30T20:54:58+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

I've been told this and I've also told people this. No one is entitled to anything in this world. That is a harsh truth that applies to more than just dating. If people learned to accept this harsh truth then people would have a better perspective on life and have more gratitude toward the things they do have. No one said that life was going to be fair.

ThrowAwayBro737 · 2018-10-30T21:44:56+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

You're not entitled to a job, bro.

Mr_White119811 · 2018-10-30T23:00:11+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3_urefvk4

wallsmasher200 · 2018-11-04T21:46:21+00:00

I mean, yeah, I would say that nobody is entitled to any particular job. Because if somebody is entitled to a job then that means somebody else is obligated to give them a job, which removes the rights of employers. It is a shame if somebody can’t find a job, but there’s no way to make sure that everybody does get a job without intruding on individual rights.

elegon2112 · 2018-11-04T21:57:15+00:00

people in general dont want to elude to the fact we judge people bye objective biological traits. and that most everyone still holds these standards in a free egalitarian world at least subconsciously. hierarchy based on biological traits goes completely against morals of the late 20th century onward. and No one wants to think they feel OK about anything can could be blackpilled. it seems to brush it off would be to embrace a eye of the beholder attitude "I find aggressive men attractive, but other women dont" while the women that people claim dont. could also just find aggressive men attractive. and the dont crowd is just a small 10% of the female population

and i imagine also because some women do have children that could be autistic. could have mental health issues, or could simply be feminine acting. they have to be supportive of that as its there children, or friends children. so i can imagine there is some internal struggle. and its just cleaner to say "nice guys" as to not also set a standard that technically could also connect to there kids

exit_sandman · 2018-11-05T15:16:43+00:00

The truth is this whole "nice guys are entitled" is just a clever technique by women to take the focus off themselves. Women like aggressive men, the opposite of a nice guy. A lot of them just don't want to admit it, so they latch on to the whole "entitled nice guy who is only nice because he wants sex, once rejected turns into an asshole" trope.

I completely agree. This should be under the automod, but since this post is 5 days old and I don't want to comb through 500 posts, I live it here.

Xemnas81 · 2018-11-23T01:19:02+00:00

This misunderstands Hypergamy theory in evo-psych. (Assuming you subscribe to it) Women don't lie, they literally do not realise that they're craving a dominant man.It's one of dem lizard hindbrain things.

Or, to take a socially constructivist angle yet again...Historically, before they were allowed to pursue higher education, women based their lives around prospective romance and marriage. They were fixated on the possibilities of love. Mary Wollstonecraft reports on this through 'Vindication of the Rights of Woman.' She loathed 'snetimentalism.' Feminism convinced women that that behaviour was low-status, to rise to the (then) equal of men. Literally to act more like independent and authoritative men than doting wallflower.

Nice guys are emulating traditionally (patriarchally) feminine behaviour.

NegativeCollision · 2018-11-24T03:28:15+00:00

Women don’t like guys because they are ugly

DemonConsulting · 2018-10-30T13:54:27+00:00

Yet if someone complains that all his job applications are being rejected, would people tell him "you're not entitled to a job!!"?

Yes they pretty much do? At best, they'll list of a bunch of reasons why you weren't fit for the job, but plenty will just calls you lazy and entitled. Just look at any discussion featuring “millenials“ complaining about the job market or, on reddit, anyone who studies anything othet than STEM complaining about not finding a job.

Noone likes whiners and the truth is that in most cases just “being nice“ and having a random 4 year degree barely meets the minimum requirements of the respective scenario.

It also doesn't help that a lot of nice guys' “niceness“ comes from a point of weakness. They're not inherently good/ better people who go out of their way to help others (especially those weaker than them), they're just conflict averse and people pleasers because that's the only strategy that works in absence of physical strength or status. If put in a position of power, they're just as much of an asshole as most people.

People, including women, respect strong men - this includes “good guys“ who are generally nice to people and help others because they can. Being “nice“ doesn't lower SMV (but doesn't raise it either), being weak/ a push over/ doormat does. Though a lot of “nice guys“ seem to think that standing up for yourself and your own interests makes you an asshole.

kandyapplez · 2018-10-30T15:13:07+00:00

Women like aggressive men, the opposite of a nice guy.

wrong, a lot of "nice guys" are actually super aggressive lol they're just aggressive while also being ugly losers

i don't know where you live or what generation you belong to but women have no problem admitting they want to be dominated anymore, you're not unlocking some secret desire when women all over social media talk about wanting a daddy to be a good little girl for its almost cliche at this point

Eartherry · 2018-10-30T15:13:16+00:00

Women know within the first 15 seconds whether or not they'll sleep with a man. After that, he's done. Washed our hands of him. He's disqualified forever. It doesn't matter what he does now. He's someone else's problem.

Now if he wants advice on how to meet other women, that's fine. Sure I could tell him that since I don't want to fuck him that obviously means he's unfuckable, but that's not true. Now, I'm not going to take any responsibility for his meeting women. Responsibility is only accepted if the man is of direct future consequence, which by disqualifying him from the SMV, I intentionally prevent, wishing him luck then leaving him to his fate.

Title	CMV: Women lie about the reason they don't like "nice guys".
Author	AnteesAntaas
Upvotes	109
Comments	439
Date	October 30, 2018 1:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9snmta/cmv_women_lie_about_the_reason_they_dont_like/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-women-lie-about-the-reason-they-dont-like-nice.259248 https://theredarchive.com/post/259248