CMV: Using the anger-phase defense is intellectually dishonest.

PPD-Angel · 2018-04-20T00:28:56+00:00

This is just a reminder to 🐝 civil. Attack your opponent’s argument, not them.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-04-19T17:20:16+00:00

Yes, you do have a problem with the anger.

You don't want men expressing it in a place where you can see it and read it.

Men get pissed off all the time. Most of the time it's not in public. You have no problem with it then, because you can't see it, hear it, read about it, or know about it.

You Blues are quite disingenuous about this. YOU, not Reds, are the ones being intellectually dishonest here. The conversation is more like this:

Blues: We are so against "toxic masculinity". We want men to express their feelings and share their feelings. We want culture to say it is OK for men to express their feelings and share them.

Men say "OK, here are my feelings. I'm pissed off about XYZ ABC and women doing this that and the other thing."

Blues reply with "OMG OMG toxic masculinity, masculinity is toxic, rape culture, hatred, misogyny, you're just bitter men with small penises who can't get laid" and a thousand other epithets and insults.

You are ok with men "sharing their feelings" as long as the emotions being shared are positive, not negative, and are not negatively directed at women. You don't want men to talk about their anger, pain, and frustration. You want all that to just go away, and you want the men feeling that to go away. Or at least shut up.

Oh well. at least it's not "hurr durr Red Pillers are stupid autistic moron black and white thinkers who can't think for themselves Aspergers autists hurr durr" That's some growth on your part.

goatismycopilot · 2018-04-19T17:22:15+00:00

I am not sure they claimed to be less misogynistic though, some of the reds put some version of "I am an asshole" in their flair. Some of them invest a fair amount of pride, ego, and identity in either being contrarian, "objective", or kind of assholish. For weird ass reason they associate it with being rebellious, apparently rebellion has become "shit you do on reddit while sitting on your ass in a cubicle ". And in that sense I do not think it is intellectually dishonest at all. Take the contrarian/objective sleeve away and they are just a regular non special worker ant like everybody else.

statsfodder · 2018-04-19T21:28:52+00:00

TBP using "it is just satire" defence is intellectually dishonest..

Femmnazi: ugh straight white men should all die!

Normal human: jez, that is a bit racist, sexist, heterophobic, isn't it?

TBP/SRS: "quotes convo" - ermahgerd!! They don't even know joaks, stupid mens!

End of the day TRP hate on behaviors that are displayed by certain women and complain about it on the internet, the femmesphere hate on anything to do with straight white men and bring it into the real world. Who is racist, sexist and sex-preference-phobic again?

alreadyredschool · 2018-04-19T19:01:59+00:00

That's because blue pillers are too stupid to read the whole thread.

Anger phaser: "women are all immature, hypergamous and manipulative cunts that will always cheat on you with Chad"

RP in comments "wow dude calm down, lift and stop being angry at women getting sex easier/not finding disgusting nice guys attractive"

Just go to the bp and read some of the threads on the front page you can always find that. Somehow they think "tolerating rants = trp is only rants"

Rp is not the random young guy that got burnt it's the guys telling him to improve himself. The defense is perfectly valid. Bloopies are just too triggered to understand basic arguments. Funniest thing about this of course that rp and bp actually agree that this guy is wrong lol. You are all way too far up in the tribal fight mode to see the underlying principles.

Another funny thing - after 4 years of bringing up that retarded argument the hypothetical bp in your op makes most of the people here still have not understood that it's futile. That just shows that certain people are either too stupid or not actually here for debate. It's delicious that instead of seeing this you decided you defend that argument, what that says about you I don't know but I guess you should see that as a wake up call to think about your stance.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-04-19T16:52:50+00:00

Someone who's past the anger phase isn't any less misogynistic just because he accepted that female nature is inherently bad.

That's not true. Female sexuality is what it is. You eventually learn to love women for who they are; not the illusion of a wonderful being that you once believed.

I don't think TRP argues that female nature is inherently good or bad. And good or bad for whom? You would want your mother to be hypergamous. What kind of woman would get knocked up by a homeless man? Or a man of significantly lesser status than herself? A pretty dumb woman, that is who.

Also, just like the Chinese general story, feminists don't allow men to feel free of culpability for the "suffering" of women. So you might as well shit in every well you pass, if only to trigger you.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-04-19T16:47:55+00:00

Some of them do hate women.

Some women are cunts.

abaxeron · 2018-04-19T18:49:57+00:00

Your definition of misogyny is all-encompassing and qualifies everyone existing and imaginable if treating women in accordance with their nature counts as misogyny. We HAVE to do it. Otherwise, those women will simply die. And I don't remember terps or MGTOWs ever denying male nature and its flaws; if anything, classical MGTOW Youtubers concentrate the majority of their content of male nature and male condition. Thus, it should make them at least misanthropists.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-04-19T16:50:45+00:00

It's not the anger we have a problem with

Since men can never be guilt free in the feminist frame, why does what you have a problem with matter from a practical perspective? You'd find a way to have a problem if I was a complete ass kissing simp.

orcscorper · 2018-04-19T17:05:09+00:00

That's not how it plays out at all. TBP doesn't say TRP is full of misogynists; it says Red Pill teaches misogyny. And when a bloop says TRP is full of misogynists, the answer is generally "No shit.", or some variation. That's usually not enough for you people. You attack Red Pill teachings that you only understand from TBP's selection of terrible things said on TRP. You still haven't figured out how to separate TRP rants and unbelievable field reports from what Red Pill really is, and I don't believe that you want to. I won't change your view, because that's not why you're here. You and I both know you are here to lob insults and feel smugly superior.

rathyAro · 2018-04-19T17:20:36+00:00

Definition of misogynist according to google: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

So if you like women despite thinking they are manipulative, etc. you aren't really a misogynist.

says_harsh_things · 2018-04-19T18:10:55+00:00

~~Anger phaser~~ Scorned Woman: "~~women~~men are all immature, ~~hypergamous~~ crude and manipulative ~~cunts~~ pigs that will always cheat on you with ~~Chad~~ their secretary"

Somehow totally okay to publish in a magazine and put on the shelf at a grocery store, with no fanfare or criticism.

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hammerhaunts · 2018-04-19T16:44:16+00:00

What does intellectually dishonest mean?

Taipanshimshon · 2018-04-19T17:40:57+00:00

just because he accepted that female nature is inherently bad.

wut? did your male cis white privilege confuse you? Its male nature thats inherently bad.

Also, you still beat that straw man like you always do

Its not a defense, its not an excuse. And being hypergamic isnt bad. and being manipulative isnt bad. Thats your silly projection

[deleted] · 2018-04-19T20:45:36+00:00

It's an observation. Hatred would be something entirely different, like calling all women whores or something.

newName543456 · 2018-04-19T22:28:14+00:00

According to dictionary.com misogyny means

hatred, dislike, mistrust, or mistreatment of women.

There is nothing stopping one from liking women and treating them well despite knowing their nature - provided your expectations are readjusted accordingly.

KikiYuyu · 2018-04-19T22:45:59+00:00

I won't be changing your view at all because I agree. I've heard that exact same argument used for the reverse. I had a friend try to convince me that misandry and anger towards all men was completely valid and okay, and not a bad thing at all.

It's bullshit no matter who says it.

blackedoutfast · 2018-04-20T01:02:46+00:00

the guys who have truly accepted the truths underlying RP don't hate women and generally love women. and someone who loves women is the opposite of misogynistic

female nature isn't inherently bad. women are just women.

TRP discusses the cold hard truth of female nature without all the political correctness and "women are wonderful" BS of the bluepill world.

concacanca · 2018-04-19T17:02:14+00:00

So you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that every RPer (or purp) who has experienced an anger phase is misogynistic?

It's not the anger we have a problem with.

Ofc it is. Harsh language and vague terminology draws most of the ire directed at the red pill.

We don't hate women and would never call them cunts (but we still believe that they are all manipulative children; we just aren't angry about female nature anymore)

I think you need to talk to more RPers. A lot of them feel liberated by the dispelling of the WaW effect and more able to love women for how they actually are, not how they were raised to see them.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-04-19T18:08:29+00:00

While the strawman you’ve put up is intellectually dishonest I don’t think describing those guys as anger phasers is in itself dishonest (intellectually or otherwise).

If I just edit out the strawman part of it it’s oerfectly fine and honest...

no he's just an anger phaser. ~~We don't hate women and would never call them cunts (but~~ we still believe that they are all manipulative ~~children~~; we just aren't angry about female nature anymore)

Any RP guy raging in the way you describe is very much an anger phaser. Most guys get through that, some don’t, some didn’t even develop it in the first place.

There is nothing about RP that requires misogyny (defined as hatred of women) although I don’t think any RPM would deny that there is something in RP that is clearly attractive to actual misogynists, and that many RPM are actual misogynists even though that’s not required. Much in the same way that many RPM call women cunts but that’s not required either.

You want us all to be misogynists because it makes your job of debating us easy. It’s intellectual laziness on your part, if not outright intellectual dishonesty to pretend so to make your debating position easier.

I’m not denying some (many?) RPM are misogynists.... But if you’re going to start a debate with me, or cxj, or nomdplume, or exit_sandman, or alreadyredschool, or any of a dozen other regulars I could name predicted on “you’re misogynists” then it’s you, not us, who is being intellectually lazy/dishonest in order to try and make your debate position easier to defend.

How about you put the strawmen away for once and debate us directly and honestly rather than cowering behind them afraid of stepping out into the open beyond the protection of their straw skirts.

Cho_Assmilk · 2018-04-20T04:33:46+00:00

You have zero obligation to read it. So don't fucking read it. It's a place where men go to share their thoughts and feelings (including anger) with like-minded men. It's a locker room and your the equivalent of female thinking she should be allowed in a mans change room and they should cover their junk with a towel because she is in there. Don't like the anger phase? You wouldn't even know about it if you weren't somewhere you don't belong.

quicklogaccount · 2018-04-19T17:49:02+00:00

It's not the anger we have a problem with. Someone who's past the anger phase isn't any less misogynistic just because he accepted that female nature is inherently bad.

Past anger we'll actually seek to stop labeling female behaviors as bad because they differ from male's. Acceptance means we stop thinking women are bad because they don't behave like men expect to.

What is inherently misogynistic is the need to deny RP's accuracy when it talks about women in order to accept women as people, because RP's description of women is based on the bits of science (namely, psychology) that address individuals rather than their roles in society or labor relationships.

I'll leave something here a bit out of context, call it a prelude: "There is a difference between believing something, and believing that a belief is beneficial despite being false".

If you want to squash you opposition, you should try to understand it. Tell me something, what benefit does RP derive from preaching that AWALT, if they are not? Why would such a belief be, in any fashion, beneficial for us, for whatever goals we could have, if it was false?

exit_sandman · 2018-04-19T20:14:48+00:00

You of all people shouldn't go all high and mighty when it comes to intellectual dishonesty.

HonestCrow · 2018-04-19T20:26:47+00:00

Generally speaking, I would argue that you can’t get to softer feelings (e.g. grief) without being able to go through harder feelings (e.g. anger). Once the anger has been expressed and accepted, then you can begin to unpack pain, letting it go, and moving on. I’m not an RPer (or a BPer really), but I can appreciate that people need a safe place to express their anger before they can process their feelings and move on productively with their life.

And a common way to express that anger - particularly when a person has been hurt - is to talk about how life has victimized them.

ExistentialLiberty · 2018-04-20T15:03:27+00:00

I agree. I used to be like this but now I consider myself fairly centrist (purple-pilled). I think MGTOW/TheRedPill has some very correct theories (based on my experiences) but to take everything to heart is just dangerous and counter-productive.

Whisper · 2018-04-21T18:27:21+00:00

Defense? Why would I want to "defend" TRP?

TRP neither requires nor desires your approval.

Entropy-7 · 2018-04-22T17:32:11+00:00

Oh, we call then "cunts" and much worse. Still, an entire sub that is dedicated to instructing guys on how they can get with women can't really hate women all that much.

Women are a whole bunch of things that we -as men - have to manage. If the OP thinks that the reality of what men must deal with makes us "misogynists" then there is not much to say.

In any event, we all know that Purple women are all NAWALT snowflakes, eh?

Personally, I never went through an "anger phase". In retrospect, I did what any RP guy would do and went MGTOW for a few years to straighten my shit out.

However, other guys have had their BP house of glass crash down upon them in much more traumatic ways. If they want to rant and vent and be angry, I am non-judgmental and willing to give them my support to bring them through that.

There are a few miscreant who are misogynists but we are talking single digit percentiles.

El_Serpiente_Roja · 2018-05-31T15:00:08+00:00

This is the type of shit you guys argue about here? OP invalidating legitimate emotional reactions from people they don't know over things they havent experienced?

Anyone in TRP talking about anger-phase is most likepy speaking from experience, its not an excuse its a reality.

Russelsteapot42 · 2018-04-19T17:55:12+00:00

You realize that this can be gender flipped to feminists. And misandry and still describe a real phenomenon, right?

Title	CMV: Using the anger-phase defense is intellectually dishonest.
Author	BiggerDthanYou
Upvotes	41
Comments	372
Date	April 19, 2018 4:40 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8dg23u/cmv_using_the_angerphase_defense_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-using-the-anger-phase-defense-is.262826 https://theredarchive.com/post/262826