Q4Women: Does male sexuality disgust you?

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 6 years ago (240 children) | Copy Link

Paging u/Atlas_B_Shruggin. Barbara Ehrenreich covers this in her book The Hearts of Men: American Dreams and the Flight From Commitment, in the chapter on the way that Playboy magazine shifted the sociosexual terrain of 1950s America. Women had never seen uncloaked male sexuality like that. All of society existed to repress and channel male sexuality, not to inflame and exacerbate it. To finally see men talking so bluntly about their sexual desires and preferences, to see men candidly admitting that they did not find their wives attractive, that they wanted to fuck luscious eighteen-year-old girls, that they placed no value on the fact that their wives had borne their children and physically wrecked themselves for them...

Yes, women found that fundamentally revolting. They still do. Atlas locates the genesis of second wave feminism in the publication of Playboy magazine, and I am not at all certain that she is wrong about that.

This is the kind of question for which it is absolutely impossible to have an informed opinion unless you are familiar with the way that the expression of male sexuality, and acceptance of that expression, evolved over the course of the 20th century. Otherwise it is all a bunch of presentist bullshit, people attributing their own 2017 thoughts and ideas and opinions to all people, everywhere, forever.

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If you want evidence that men started doing things like saying, "Shut up, you fat old lady! Nobody cares what you think!" to their wives when they went to the country club for dinner, then I cannot provide you with that. The difference lies in the different ways that men and women perceive disrespect. Men apparently thought that bringing their yearning for sweet young things into the public eye was no big deal. As you say, it wasn't like they were going to actually throw over their stout wives; they still needed somebody to keep the house and do the laundry and raise the kids, and it was kind of nice to have things like Christmas dinner and so forth. So what's the problem?

The problem is that women experience that as profound disrespect and betrayal. This is a basic tenet of RP: women care a lot about what happens in public. It's one thing if their husband hits it with a 19-year-old Barnard student every other week while he's in the city for work. That doesn't take place in front of his wife's face; it's on the down low, hidden from their friends and their social circle. It's entirely different if her husband starts subscribing to Playboy and bringing their friends - her friends' husbands - into the city to go to the Bunny Club.

If you go over to TRP right now, you will find a lot of guys quoting that Law of Power that says Think what you like, but behave like everybody else. They don't know, or don't care, that Playboy did not behave like everybody else. Playboy was saying all that stuff, over seventy years ago. Be awesome, spin plates, never marry, have a sweet bachelor pad, have a rotating harem. And women were horrified. Even the women whose husbands were too old for those kinds of shenanigans recognized the threat posed by this school of thought. TRP goes on about how it exposes the female sexual imperative for what it is; Playboy did this decades ago, and women understood exactly what it meant. They knew what would happen if the majority of men rejected marriage and discarded older women. Hell, if even a large minority of men did that. The Ehrenreich book quotes letters that women wrote to the magazine, in that vein, which were received with exactly the kind of sensitivity and respect that you would expect from Hugh Hefner.

Once that genie was out, it was never going back in the bottle. Once men publicly acknowledged that they wanted to bang hot young chicks on the side, there was no longer any way that women were able to engage in the elaborate mental gymnastics that had, for centuries, allowed them to live with their knowledge of male sexual desire. Like Atlas said, it stripped away male sociosexual hypocrisy. Female sociosexual hypocrisy would go about a decade and a half later, during the sexual revolution, and away we went.

[–]give_me_shinieshere for the bants12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (124 children) | Copy Link

Then why weren't those women fucking their men right?

Why did they need to read titty rags? The argument that's always put forth is "I'm sexing you right! You don't need porn! You don't need to read titty rags! I'm RIGHT HERE."

Well, evidently, there were a lot of women who weren't "right there" taking care of their husbands.

TRP goes on about how it exposes the female sexual imperative for what it is; Playboy did this decades ago, and women understood exactly what it meant. They knew what would happen if the majority of men rejected marriage and discarded older women. Hell, if even a large minority of men did that.

COnfirmation that TRP has it correct. And women responded by pressuring legislators to make divorce so cost prohibitive that men couldn't divorce without taking a baseball bat up the ass, which in turn has led more and more men to eschew marriage....

Why are women so afraid of their unattractive husbands reading titty rags and going to the Bunny Club? These women hate and disrespect these men anyway. Why do they give two shits what their husbands (whom they hate and disrespect) are doing?

Men apparently thought that bringing their yearning for sweet young things into the public eye was no big deal. As you say, it wasn't like they were going to actually throw over their stout wives; they still needed somebody to keep the house and do the laundry and raise the kids, and it was kind of nice to have things like Christmas dinner and so forth. So what's the problem?

Women apparently thought that fucking lots of hot guys and then settling down with Boring Billy Beta after running up an N of 30+ was no big deal. As you say, it wasn't like they were actually going to mistreat these men; they still needed somebody to work the job and pay the bills and service the car, and it was kind of nice to have things like the 4 bedroom 3 bath colonial in the burbs. So what's the problem?

Question: If the problem was guys actually giving voice to their sexual wants, is it ok for them to just keep it quiet? Is it OK for men to have their extramarital dalliances, so long as they do it discreetly and quietly? Is it OK (generally, in women's minds) for men to watch porn and take their buds to the titty bar, as long as they don't talk about it and keep it on the downlow? Is it ok for men to read titty rags as long as their wives don't know that they read those titty rags? Is it ok for men to read titty rags as long as they don't broadcast it in public that they read those titty rags?

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[–]SpaceWhiskey🍃 Social Justice Druid 🍂5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I was addressing your main question, that being "Well why weren't those women trying harder in the bedroom".

The problem was the openness, yes. I can't speak for the adult women of the 50s because I was never alive pre-sexual revolution and I grew up without any of the baggage of the social norms and expected gender roles at the time. I don't have a problem with porn. I look at porn. I've made porn. But going by what I know about the 50s and the history of Playboy, yes the indiscretion was the problem. The entire point of the magazine was to give regular men a peek into the lifestyle of a wealthy playboy with a mansion full of barely legal beautiful women. The whole allure was that you were getting a glimpse into a previously private, discrete scene. To have that magazine just chillin on the coffee table or in the bathroom was surely seen as a smack in the face to the sanctity of marriage.

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Nope. I don't understand the "woman's sexual experience" better than women do. Are you telling me that women experience sex with a man as a "need to be two ever changing 19 year old girls at once"? Even with average guys who are delighted they got this one woman to fuck him after a year-long dry spell? Even average guys who've never had sex like this before?

Or are you telling me that you experienced sex with the extremely attractive alpha men you have had sex with, as a need to be "two ever changing 19 year old girls at once"?

Do you realize that most women don't have the experiences you do? Do you realize that most men don't have the experiences of the alpha men you used to have sex with? Do you realize that the experiences of the men you used to have sex with are way, way, WAY outside the norm? Do you realize that the men you used to have sex with are top 20% men whose sexual experiences are way, way, WAY outside the norm for most men, who wallow in sexual deserts most of their lives?

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Many couples are really attracted to eachother.

lots of people are not attractive themselves, and thus, resort to dating other unattractive people. lots of women or men, meet someone who's personality they really like, and they over look appearance, due to not meeting many people they get along with, or not meeting many members of the opposite sex who are willing to date them, or not meeting many due to extremely busy life, or lack of people in their town/city, etc etc etc.

lots of people, due to low self esteem, lack of options due to being poor or socially awkward, will date the first person to show interest.

my ex was never really attracted to me for example, she dated me because i was the first nice guy who didn't try to pump and dump her, and i actually cared about her as a person. every guy before me tried to get her to do threesomes and turn her into a casual fuck buddy (she was pretty hot). she hated herself and didn't think she was attractive and had mental issues. if she hadn't she wouldn't give someone who looks like me the time of day.

7 years and a dead bed room later, turns out she is only attracted to 9/10 dudes with muscles and height and model faces. these are men she KNOWS she can date now, cause her self esteem improved and she realises she is hot. even now she has to turn away and swallow and look awkward if i ask her if she thinks im attractive to women, and she lies and says yes, but i know its bullshit.

women will also date men just for financial sercurity, or because they are "ready to settle down" and they pick a guy based on his stable personality and job, not being remotely sexually attracted to him. id say there is about a 20% chance your partner actually gets excited at the idea of fucking you, and is probably with you for a million other reasons of scarcity and opportunity.

i'll never trust or believe any woman that says im attractive after my ex.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

please read the full post i edited a bunch of times.

also you have no stats for any of this. these are all just things i know happen because i've seen it happen and talked to people and had them admit it to me many times. also browsing reddit where people are honest about their relationships.

i at least knows this happens on a pretty wide scale, but i have no idea what happens "most often", without stats.

Its been pretty well established that people date those on the same attraction level.

established by what? still doesn't take away from my point. all unattractive people are dating other unattractive people. this means large amounts of the population aren't attracted to their partner, because they are only dating them because they can't get someone hotter.

also this is pure observation, but i see fat girls with tall and muscular guys frequently where i live and never see the reverse. i believe the truth is "women date up, men date down" when it comes to looks, not everything evening out. this isn't how it happens all the time, but i believe its the average.

i don't believe it all evens out, i believe some people are dating people way lower on the scale, especially men, since men need confidence and money to get a really hot girl, not just looks. a shy awkward, broke model looking guy winds up with a 4/10 fat girl.

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Well, currently, there are a very small number of women willing to look the other way at husbands cheating, and that's women married to very sexually attractive men. I don't agree that women in DB situations are ok with husbands cheating.

Most women I know who are married to average men would divorce their husbands in an instant if they knew of him cheating. Because they're average men, and because they know they can absolutely ruin their husbands with crushing child support and alimony obligations.

My own mom said to me once "well if your dad ever did cheat I'd take him to the cleaners, so..." This is my OWN MOM. Talking about my DAD. Really makes you feel good about the strength of your parents' relationship. (Not.) What it does do is make you realize your mom really hates and distrusts your dad, and she wouldn't hesitate to take him apart if she saw fit.

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Is it OK (generally, in women's minds) for men to watch porn

Nope. Not according to my last wife. It didn't matter if you went weeks or months in-between your last encounter. If she wasn't in the mood, then gosh darn it, you shouldn't be either.

I was in the mood, quite often. She is indeed a shapely little short-statured curvy woman and her stuff aka her womanly charms was always good.

But she never was in the mood.

Ever.

As soon as she got her golden ring to complete the set with her diamond ring, the well ran dry.

Needless to say, I said screw that nonsense.

And she lost her mind about it. How dare I have an outlet outside of her long time tables and general unenthusiastic encounters! (one time she told me I needed to change the light bulbs while doing the deed with her cause she was looking at them. Another time, she had to pick up her phone and look at Facebook while mid-intimate)

Who did I think I was?

A free man?!

Ha!

I was a married indentured handi-man and attractive man appendage when she went out in public.

However, at no time, to her was I an equal partner or husband. My wishes or whims carried no weight.

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[–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago* (88 children) | Copy Link

Male sexuality is really no worse than female sexuality:

--women enjoying being ravished/near raped/jackhammered to death by very attractive men

--women with fantasies about being raped, having threesome with unknown men

--women cheating on husbands with much more attractive men

--women admitting candidly that they don't find their husbands sexually attractive

--women candidly admitting they love hooking up with very sexually attractive men

--women casually and callously dumping faithful husbands for unhaaaaaaappiness

--millions on millions of women diddling themselves to 50SoG, a poorly written book with graphic descriptions of BDSM, sexual sadism, rape, and extreme male domination

Don't even talk to me about the crudeness of male sexuality; when women's sexuality is so much more mercenary and bottom-feeding.

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So what?

There's a spectrum of depraved female sexuality that has no comparable male counterpart. The ability of women to offload a decades-long faithful man and treat him as coldly as if she'd never known him. Her ability to coldly and cruelly deprive him of relationships with his children. Her ability to coldly and cruelly take so much property from him as to deprive him of a basic, decent standard of living. Her ability to walk away from an intimate sexual and companionate relationship with a man as if that relationship (and that man) had never existed. Her ability to cheat on a man and rationalize it to the point that is it HIS fault SHE cheated on him.

Men don't fantasize about being raped. Women do. Women fantasize, openly and clearly, about sexual violence perpetrated on them by hot, sexy, attractive men. Men don't callously dump wives for younger models (as a rule - it is so rare as to be quite negligible).

That's some mentally sick shit right there.

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Depraved ways people treat their spouses IS sexual depravity.

Gonna have to agree to disagree here.

Women's rape fantasies are sexual depravity. Women's fantasies about sexual violence are sexual depravity.

I didn't deny that women have sexually depraved fantasies, just that the extent of their sexual depravity doesn't compare to men's. I don't see how you can deny this with a straight face. At the very least, women's sexual depravity is mostly in the form of fantasy. Men for whatever reason are far more likely to seek to fulfill their fantasies in real life, compulsively and often harmfully. I don't give a shit if a man has a fantasy of watching an unsuspecting woman pee in a public restroom, he can watch all the toilet porn he wants. He crosses the line when he actually does it.

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You are nearly 100% ignorant of how public perception and acceptance of male sexuality evolved over the course of the 20th century in the US. Your dogmatic insistence on "male honor" has left you completely unable to accept the fact that MEN DID THIS and MEN WANTED THIS. MEN were the ones who put all of this in the public sphere. MEN were the ones who abrogated the sociosexual compact that had existed in the US since its founding. MEN were the ones who decided that they wanted a very specific type of female sexuality to be unmoored from propriety, in very specific ways.

MEN were the ones who PUT IT OUT IN PUBLIC, WHERE IT HAD NEVER BEEN BEFORE, that they wanted to fuck pretty teenagers instead of their boring old wives.

If MEN wanted to continue to be able to tamp down women's "depraved sexual natures," then perhaps MEN should not have tried to leverage that "depraved sexual nature" for their own benefit, with no thought of what the fallout might encompass, or how it might affect the rest of society.

But I suppose it is somehow women's fault, and 40-something wives strapped into girdles after bearing four children should have just accepted the fact that their husbands were now PUBLICALLY lusting after women half their age.

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I have had this debate with him before and he never lets pass an opportunity to tell everybody exactly how depraved and awful women are, according to his own very specific Protestant evangelical upbringing and the lies it fed him. I am very aware of his beliefs on this issue.

My own irritation today was due to the fact that I am a historian and it really fucking annoys me when people who know very little history and even less about basic historical fallacies start making arguments about things that are demonstrably false. People on this sub engage in presentism, for example, all the goddamned time. This is the fallacy of ascribing your present-day thoughts and ideas and motivations to people of the past. The people of the past were nothing like us. Men who lived in the 1950s United States were not surrounded by a hypersexualized society. Not only was there no Tinder, there were no sexily-dressed women in advertisements. (Cute and cheerful and modestly-dressed women, sure.) As I said earlier, society existed to repress and channel male sexuality, not inflame it. Their relationship to sex and their own sexual desire was fundamentally different in every way than that of men today.

Further, men in the 1950s did not marry because they wanted to have hot sex with their wives. I cannot emphasize this strongly enough: Men in the 1950s did not marry because they wanted hot sex with their wives. They married because there was an explicit and elaborate set of social codes that marrying and settling down and raising children was the only way to demonstrate responsible adulthood and maturity. People living in 2017 have no idea the extent to which this concept undergirded society. The average male age at marriage was 23, for God's sake. Men married because they didn't want to be perceived as weird or subversive or, God help them, gay. It was this kind of ruthless conformity and, dare I say it, repression, that Playboy was founded to counteract.

I am arguing with Lewis because not only is he provably and demonstrably wrong, but because this is the exact kind of history that he has literally no excuse for not knowing. He thinks that men of 2017 are unappreciated beasts of burden, tasked with providing for wives who can't be bothered to keep the house clean and children who are ungrateful? Men in the 1950s complained bitterly about exactly the same thing. I squabble with Lewis a lot, but he actually does have the germ of a good and legitimate argument here, and it is bewildering to me that, instead of reading things that might help him flesh it out and make it stronger, he instead falls back on made-up history that is factually false.

[–]darla103 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MacheakoGo Baltimore Ravens!0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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Sigh. Again: I am talking about historical mindsets. I think those historical mindsets can easily be classified as "repressive" when they are based upon/propped up by blatantly false medical information that dissuade (non-compulsive) masturbation and pleasurable sex between consenting, married/monogamous adult partners. I think mixing that with Calvinism's belief that all humans are inherently broken/evil and prone to sin (particularly of the flesh) with only a few viable for salvation through "Grace" is pretty repressive.

Recognizing these mindsets as "repressive"- something even modern day Christians are beginning to do- is hardly a belief that "our sexual urges SHOULD be unchained, and free to flow on whomever, wherever we want." I am merely pointing out how people in past viewed sex- in and out of marriage- and how much some of those attitudes lingered in our modern times.

So... you're cold.

[–]MacheakoGo Baltimore Ravens!1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, I hear ya bud. And thank you for that impassioned response :) Really, it's always nice to talk to a Redditor, but it's even nicer to talk to another human being lol and reading people write shit like that shows me they're bringing their human side to the debate, not their anonymous online identity, so if it means anything, I prefer to talk in a similar fashion.

But uhhmmmm, heh, I guess, lemme just start with this.

it really fucking annoys me when people who know very little history and even less about basic historical fallacies start making arguments about things that are demonstrably false.

How do I say......I FEEL YOUR PAIN BROTHER!!!!! lol. Though I'm not a historian, I'm a computer engineer, and I run into this problem incessantly. At every level of knowledge. If I spend a good deal of my free time studying economics, or some aspect of politics, well what do you know, everyone that talks to me just blindly assumes they're at the same level of research and understanding as I am......but the pertinent question is always, "But why?" lol

I've even asked people too!!! Like "Why exactly is it that you feel with such certainty, knowing that you DONT fuckin know me at all......why do you think you know better/more than me?" And they honestly come up with NOTHING but sheer, blind fuckin arrogance. Like, there's none of this posturing, no more "feeling your opponent out". Which baffles the living shit outta me!!! Well....sorta, though not really lol.

I say "not really" because if I can say I have one passion outside of computer science it'd probably be human psychology. I have no institutional accreditation, though I like to believe we're mature enough to admit if 2 people read the same sets of books over a 4 year span, there's no guarantee...but there's one HELL of a good chance they're both at least well-versed on the subjects lol so feel free to take that how you care, but it's my understanding that if someone isn't bothering with "feeling out their opponent"....it's because they've already decided in their minds "they've won", or that, "there's no use in actually hearing out the other person, I'm just here to give them MY message".

Which, between you and me, if you post a lot on reddit, you just GOTTA be on the look out for that shit before it begins; hopefully if ya can. Like, when it's apparent to me the other person isn't having a conversation with me but rather at me lol....I just "walk away" mentally and end that shit ASAP, no strings attached. Cause I'd wager that MOST of those interactions, the other person isn't even paying attention to your existence, as shitty as it sounds. We only really remember the shit that makes an impact on us, and if you're not making an impact...well....I guess that would make YOU history too ;) lol You know what I mean.

Also, I don't think I agree with all of the necessary conclusions you've drawn about Men from the past, but that aside, I appreciate you being cool and honest with me :) So I'd rather not "debate" any of that stuff, BUT, on the flip side, if you'd care more for discussion, as opposed to argument, I'm all ears. At the very core I'm just interested to knowing and understanding this stuff, which in large part motivates me. But, and you should know this, having an opinion on something isn't exactly "desirable" when it doesn't coincide with the same "opinion" as those around you :/ So it's hard just to fucking talk about this shit without someone blowing up because they've built their life around principles and ideas which aren't sound.....and I hate to sound crass but, that's NOT my goddamn fault! lol

But yea, you're all good man. I've enjoyed reading the exchanges between you two. Like I said, there are a few things I disagree with on your analysis, but, for what it's worth, you do seem like you at least know what in the fuck you're talking about with history and you DO bring up good counter arguments for the shit I don't agree with, so while we may not agree, your honesty in your work and aptitude for it are pretty darn respectable in the least ;) So don't worry about it man lol you're doing just fine.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

The people of the past were nothing like us.

Really? Human nature changed that much from the post WWII period from today?

People have been cheating on each other and having extramarital sex since the fucking FLOOD in the Book of Genesis. People have been screwing each other over and generally displaying shitty behavior since the dawn of time.

In the first paragraph you say that men's relationship to sexuality and sex was very different than today. "Oh, life was SO DIFFERENT in the 1950s than it is now!!" In the third paragraph you say that men in the 1950s were complaining of the same things men complain about now - married to bitch harridans who can't do the basic shit they're supposed to do and with ungrateful bratty kids. "Oh, life was EXACTLY THE SAME in the 1950s as it is now!!"

Which is it?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Human nature changed that much from the post WWII period from today?

As you like to say, point to where I said anything about "human nature."

The social environment of the 1950s was nothing like 2017 America. Acceptance of unrestrained sexuality was nothing like it is today. Even the male role as breadwinner in the 1950s was very very different than it is today, because women of the 1950s were often legally denied jobs that paid a wage that they could support themselves on, since the "family wage" was paid to men.

But, as usual, you seem to be a lot more interested in explaining made-up facts to your hypothetical audience of internet manospherians than debating in good faith or actually admitting that you have no real interest in turning your germ of a good argument - which I acknowledge is the germ of a good argument - into something substantial.

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[–]philomexaIF THE POISON WON'T TAKE YOU MY DOGS WILL7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago* (73 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely. I mean sit back and think about all the fucked up shit men have stuck their dicks into, and all the fucked up lengths they'd go to stick their dick in something.

For fuck sake have some standards.

I'd say ya'll need Jesus, but that didn't seem to work the first time through.

ETA: I remember a passage I read in Blindness by Jose Saramago. Long story short, everyone is blind and there is just kind of, helpless chaos. One group of people have food and guns, and the other group of people have women and not much else. The group with guns demands the women in exchange food. The women begrudging go along with this and just kind of accept the awkward, blind, mass rape. Except for one poor woman, who was literally skull fucked to death.

Her rapist didn't seem to either know or care that she was skull fucked to death, he just kept hammering away at mush and blood.

yeah, ya'll need something more than Jesus.

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Well, the reason that I bring it up is because it strikes me that the internalized fear of assplay incumbant to masculine expectations in our heteronormative culture shares a lot in common with the internalized ambivalence towards vaginal intercourse for the ladies. Both involve physically quite comparable acts of vulnerability, after all.

Put more simply, one could argue that the act of deriving pleasure from sticking a body part into an orifice differs in quality from deriving pleasure from having things stuck into one's orifice along the dimension of vulnerability, but that switching that comparison to one of strictly receiving penetrative sex acts evens the playing field a little bit more.

But if it helps at all, my perspective on the entire dating scene may be a unique one because I'm not only bi, but I find as large of a number of women as attractive as straight males do but as small of a number of men as attractive as straight women do. :/

[–]ProbablyBelievesIt0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jesset77Vyvanse Pill0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not that simple. For one thing, most women need to deal with pregnancy. Men? Not nearly as often. So it actually makes sense for women to hesitate.

Well, I'm not saying that they're precisely identical comparisons, just that they're a closer comparison than envelopment.

overwhelming your partner's senses can easily become a position of power.

While I'm certain that it can, that part of the comparison cancels out because having a penis enveloped by something, or having any object in a woman's vagina or man's anus are all cases where your senses are perfectly capable of being overwhelmed.

Bear in mind that any of these acts without consent are still rape, all that we're doing is discussing potential motivators to actually consent to them under different circumstances. I just think that being the penetrator confirs lower risk than being the penetrated.

It's not that simple. For one thing, most women need to deal with pregnancy. Men? Not nearly as often.

While true, the STD rate is much higher for anal sex than for vaginal (and higher for the vagina than for the penis in PIV), and besides: fewer women engage in anal-receiving than vaginal even despite this factor of pregnancy risk that you bring up, and despite some pretty high demand on the male side to "reach fifth base" with women.

Men are just playing a silly game, and are usually more terrified of liking it too much.

I don't see any evidence that women aren't influenced by a similar problem. If either gender feels some fundamental draw towards a sexual act that they either intellectually or socially believe that they aren't "supposed" to participate in, then it can grow into a pretty thorny self-repressive taboo.

So, why are there so many women who have found power from it all, and why do men see being penetrated as taking that power away?

Off the top of my head, I would actually say that pressure from other men not to deviate from masculine expectations gets trumped in this circumstance by pressure from women. There exist tons of evidence that (a surprising number of) women view males who skew from heteronormativity as undateable.

Now in reality being into assplay is orthogonal to being into other guys, but in the court of HN public opinion a man's sexuality has to be very predictable. For many women I am certain that it might feel threatening to work out their role in a relationship with a man into something like pegging, when they don't feel comfortable strapping something on to "do the topping" and they don't know what to do when you leave the well-worn trail of PIV mechanics and plumbing.

Also, to a lot of people of both genders in the cheap seats, a man's role is to "win" the affection of women, and while ordinary masturbation is an oft derided substitute they view seeking more avant-garde methods to pleasure oneself as especially pathetic.

There is also the expectation that a man should aim to perform PIV well enough to "please his lady", so people imagine (whether frequently realized in practice or not) a very balanced and reciprocal experience where everybody is getting "overwhelming stimulus". But a hetero guy receiving assplay doesn't leave his woman in a position to get any direct stimulus, given that she doesn't have a penis to bring to that table.

So reasons abound, but the bottom line remains that women can enjoy the hell out of sex but still avoid it, and a typical man's aversion to assplay does a fine job of demonstrating many paths to such an outcome. :J

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Animals - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4399506/Woman-sex-dogs-bestiality-party-SPARED-jail.html

Exhaust pipes - I wanted to post a link to a video of a woman fucking a gear lever but that is easy to find.

Food - women have never stuck carrots or cucumbers up there? Really?

Maggoty corpses - blowflygirl anyone? But if that ain't enough for you: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/morgue-worker-arrested-after-giving-birth-to-a-dead-mans-baby/

Wound holes: Well, there was Elizabeth Bathory...

Eye sockets: This is either torture or fucking a dead body. The latter which women do, too.

Piles of shit: EXTREMELY NSFW!!!!

https://www.scatsite.com/video_listing/inserting-shit-in-her-vagina/

Babies: do not read if you don't want to be angry

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2003983/Woman-raped-threw-boyfriends-17-month-old-daughter-blunt-object-killing-charged-degree-murder.html

http://www.americanews.com/story/crime/2016/04/01/mother-who-filmed-herself-raping-her-1-year-old-son-receives-shocking

So tell me again how women's sexuality is more morally superior? She is imposing herself on food and inanimate objects as well as babies and animals. Women do fucked up shit, too. Get off that high horse.

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So these women have no agency and cannot say no? I don't buy the "they did it for men" part when women are never that generous to men in general. If she did it for the money, she still didn't have to suck off a horse to earn anything.

Or maybe, just maybe a more plausible explanation is that they are into this shit (no pun intended) and should be held equally accountable for their choices?

And if you are playing a numbers game, how about we consider that women have aborted more babies than men have died in war.

I was going by the principle that this shit is fucked up regardless, but if numbers are what you need then consider how many more women dump their babies than men do. Women also use false accusations of rape or abuse against men far more than the other way around, so I guess that makes them far worse. Or how about the fact that in non reciprocal intimate partner violence they vastly outnumber men.

They are doing really shitty things at higher rates than men so maybe that helps?

But like I said, if this stuff makes you feel uncomfortable there are plenty of people who have put things in their vaginas that shouldn't be there just as men have stuck their dicks in things they shouldn't have. We may have leniency for people who do it less but whether you deep throat a horse dick once or 10 times still makes you a horse sucker regardless.

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oh sorry - i'm a dude. i forgot this question was directed at women. i feel you though - it's a breath of fresh air in the middle of a caustic wasteland to find women who strive to understand and empathize with men. women who actively set aside their own perspective for a little while to understand how others think and feel in order to understand their behavior.

i started getting more involved in alternative and kinky scenes so that i could speak my mind without judgement. girls who are into exhibition and BDSM tend to empathize with men and accept their carnal desires better than the average woman.

PS: a little advice. never refer to women as females. call them women or girls, whichever is right for the context. "females" feels clinical and objective, like you're describing an animal. only use it as an adjective to describe human beings, not as a noun. it pisses some people off.

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The porn they watch, the weird fetishes they're into, the sheer thirst of it

The thirst isn't really relatable so the lack of standards seems a bit weird to me. The only part I have found disgusting about it so far is the incel women-hate cyclejerk where they talk about wanting to rape them - most normie men don't seem particularly disgusting or threatening with their sexuality though.

As for the porn, I have it in good confidence that my porn habits fetishes are at least as fucked up as those of most men ( at least if you count literotica/ fanfiction as porn) and women in general seem to be more into violent bdsm-type stuff than men who can just see a pair of boobs or feet for those fetish-weirdos and be satisfied with that. (At least if the mainstream porn vs 50 shades of grey or the before named fanfiction fantasies, often written and read by female teenagers 13 and up, are anything to go by).

Edit: Old men hitting on obviously underage girls are seriously disgusting though - not sure if that is a part of male sexuality (I kind of want to believe that the balls shrivel and die past 55 and the sex drive goes with them) but it is clearly also a manipulation/ power thing.

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I would think that a youth fetish could also be acted upon with someone who just looks younger if that is the appeal. If the fetish needs them to actually be that young, I'm not sure what other component would be important to the dynamic other than the actual age difference with the power imbalance that comes with it ... might just be what I interpret into it though - like I said, it makes me have a disgusted reaction so a sufficient partOf of my aversion must be subconscious too.

I'm stoked when the girl turns out to be legal.

yeah that is the normal reaction I would expect and also what I usually get from younger men - they only approached me when I was looking intentionally hot too (makeup, good clothes) instead of when I'm lazy in an oversized hoodie that makes me look younger.

Idk the old men honestly just seemed like creeps - quite a few middle easterners too so maybe it's a cultural thing. Also mostly on the bus which seems to collect weirdos by itself. Just very bizarr. (Luckily not a regular thing, maybe 5 times in total, just memorable enough because they were weird)

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raw unchecked male sexuality and the lengths that even regular normie men would go to get laid is disgusting yes.

that's why straight men end up in prison and then willingly engage in gay sex. its why men can be alone for 1 year and then see a woman and then rape the shit out of her because they literally can't help themselves. its why men will drug women and then keep them underground in cages and take turns with each like he's playing Pussy Pokemon.

and when that's not enough, they go even farther? Watching a woman's face turn blue cuz you're choking her during sex? tots okay! Gangbanging a barely pubescent young lady who looks like your mom? Cool beans! And then you find out about reddit and the other crazy shit men watch and get off to in private. I never want to know these things. I dont' think women ever wanted to know these things.

If it was disgusting and did nothing for them, there would be virtually no market for all this smut, yet its a billion dollar industry and it is not slowing down. That disgusts me, but also, it scares me.

Women don't ever do this shit. If women can't get laid, they just stop shaving and hang out with their gfs and watch Sex in the City.

[–]KrispyMcSockingtonPillar of the community11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Women have far more rape fantasies than men.

Jesus, do you really imagine men abusing women while trying to get off?

Strangling someone during sex is usually done with their permission and is usually for the benefit of the person being strangled.

its why men can be alone for 1 year and then see a woman and then rape the shit out of her because they literally can't help themselves

Man, all those dudes who left prison must be raping the hell out of the first woman they see. I think you ate projecting a lot here. If you were a man, is this how you would act?

If it was disgusting and did nothing for them, there would be virtually no market for all this smut, yet its a billion dollar industry and it is not slowing down. That disgusts me, but also, it scares me.

You have serious issues. You fear male sexuality more than when women call men insecure for not wanting to date a bitch.

Women don't ever do this shit. If women can't get laid, they just stop shaving and hang out with their gfs and watch Sex in the City.

You don't know many lesbians who enjoy dominating their partners, do you? Or sexually aggressive women who have forced a guy into sex. Or those female teachers who cannot resist raping their students. Or those female prison guards who are supposed to protect boys in juvenile facilities but rape them instead.

Nope. Apparently women are all wonderful beings who would never hurt or rape anyone. Men just cannot keep it in their pants and it is wrong for them to desire the type of kinky sex they like. Ironically, we seem to have no problem with women desiring kinky sex and call them empowered for doing so.

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Not a single woman who has ever posted here, has views that radical. And she's not exactly a new poster.

Well, I got some names in mind, but I can't say them because that would be witch hunting. I'll give you a clue that one of them identified as "pink pill", and another constantly argued female supremacism even though she claimed she identified as a feminist. When you're saying "No women around here has views that radical", you're just letting "women are wonderful effect" dictate your words.

Other people upvoted me, so clearly I'm not the only one who thinks that some women here hold radical views about men. I'm sure comments from others will follow. Can you go brag about your sarcasm detector somewhere else before you're forced to defend a losing battle against more people than just me?

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Much more than men, no bullshit. I've done a couple years' time here in my local county lock-up over the years, and prison sex was nonexistent between inmates on the regular general population (not sure about PCs). If anything, non-piece of shit males doing time for classical, non-deviant criminal behavior become heavily guarded and protective toward their heterosexuality, as it's one of the last few remaining shreds of personal dignity you latch onto in that environment.

The women inmates? Not so much. My ex was one of those 'bad-ass bitches' who did time herself in her younger years, and she admitted to me the women become so insane from sexual frustration (since its something they never had to work for, it was simply taken as a given by them their whole lives) that a majority of the female inmates have some sort of lesbian experience while incarcerated, even if only once, herself included.

In general, men learn to grapple their sexual desires and feelings into the ground, prostrate and begging for mercy, while women have little to no control over their lustful thoughts. While the male inmates were learning to live without sexual contact for years on end, their female SOs regularly cheat on them back home, yet another example of unbridled, uncontrollable female sexual desire. Or the serviceman going to an overseas base while his SO cheats on him at every opportunity. Happens ALL the time.

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Perhaps you don't know, but you are voicing an extremely sexist sentiment. First you speak of 'unchecked male sexuality', what does that mean? Do you mean to say that men are inherently sexist and have extreme urges that should be controlled? I'm sorry, but that's not how I know all the men in my life, myself included.

Also you mention that a man that has been alone for a year, will surely rape a woman, as if it is set in stone that it's a part of being male. Or how about you describing men as keeping women in cages? It speaks volumes as to how you are clueless of what masculinity means.

At the end of the day for every bad story there are good stories. I just hope that you're willing to see that. Please surround yourself with better people or stop stalking negatively about men as a whole. It does you no good.

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Title	Q4Women: Does male sexuality disgust you?
Author	return_2_dust
Upvotes	12
Comments	444
Date	July 18, 2017 2:52 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/6o18nh/q4women_does_male_sexuality_disgust_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4women-does-male-sexuality-disgust-you.266901 https://theredarchive.com/post/266901