MGTOW - Veterans, boy geniuses, & posers

jagrmeister721 · 2015-01-05T16:48:46+00:00

MGTOW has never been a pissing contest of how many women we’ve slept with and “success” with women. It is a worldview where a man’s self-worth is connected to his achievements, his satisfaction, and unrelated to society and women’s perception of him. If you don’t get that much, I’m not sure how one can say they embrace MGTOW. There is much more to MGTOW than simply “never marry”.

Let’s begin with his basic premise: “If you don’t approach and sleep with women, you have lower moral character. Less honor.”

It used to be that society thought if you were a man of value, then you would have a woman because you were therefore considered "eligible". However, today, a woman's perception of a man's Sexual Market Value is often misaligned with a man's actual value. With that means in real terms is that a Kevin Federline type gets plenty of ‘success’ with women, but an introverted, capable guy would not. And yet this old thinking (eligible/quality men are necessarily with women) is still with us. For more on this, see:

Actual Value http://www.goingyourownway.com/mgtow-mgtow-101/actual-value-av-key-concept-351/?351-Actual-Value-(AV)-A-key-concept-of-MGTOW=

Great Regression

Cletus and Leroy have 10 kids apiece with 10 different mothers. Do they owe this ‘success’ to higher moral character? I’m someone who’s had ONS, FWB, dated. But the whole point of MGTOW is we don’t differentiate ourselves by this kind of ‘success’ because it is anything but. In this guy’s opinion, he is a “higher MGTOW”. Amusing for someone who criticized the idea of MGTOW stages.

Here is the crux: it doesn’t matter how you came to MGTOW. If you banged a bunch of chicks, if you married and divorced, if you watched your father get screwed over in divorce court, if you got a false rape accusation , if you did all or none of the above. What matters is your awareness of the nature of women today, the changing nature of relationships, know that a man’s worth is not related to his ‘success’ with women, that you go your own way and a live a life unencumbered by blue-pill blinders. How you got to that realization is immaterial. It is a red herring.

Is Clarey’s point that the few virgins in MGTOW should invest massive amounts of time lifting, learning Game, buying the right clothes, approaching women, having relationshits, only to realize it’s not worth it and THEN go back to being MGTOW???! What would be the point of that? Once you come to MGTOW awareness- then you can Game, P4P, or master your sexual instinct some other way. It’s not a point of pride the path you took to get here.

Aaron would be happy if the few virgins in MGTOW spent 3 years finding a unicorn only to realize she’s not a unicorn. What is the point of his pointless advocacy for the few virgins to pursue the “right woman”? For someone who vents against everyone from born-agains to vegetarians proselytizing their point of view, he seems awfully hung up on advocating this losing strategy to men who know better.

For anyone who is MGTOW, there is a reality about the nature of hypergamy today; the nature of female entitlement, the nature of society to validate men who play ball and “man up”. MGTOW is about acknowledging these truths. It is not about boasting or one-upping each other about the pathway we took to arrive at this understanding.

My simplest response to this video is: here is proof you can’t effectively criticize something you don’t understand.

—

I don’t mean to copy and paste to death, but from my piece on misconceptions:

— The key point here is that MGTOWs distinguish between Sexual Market Value (SMV) and Actual Value (AV). To define terms, Actual Value is having traits that make for a good person leading a meaningful life; actual ability, actual traits of good character..... SMV for us are male traits that women find attractive. Now naturally there may be some overlap between the two. But the general sentiment is that today, SMV and AV may be more misaligned than ever. Today, the alpha cokehead waiter is preferred to a guy with Actual Value. Whereas having a full sleeve tattoo may not put you in great position for the corner office, it can help your SMV. There are more examples, but decades ago, having an upstanding character and solid career prospects was more likely to garner female interest; actual value was more in alignment with SMV.

MGTOWs separate themselves entirely from the paradigm that a man’s value is related to his ‘success’ with women. — ....But either way, to be a “man” in yesteryear was to “win a woman over” for marriage and today it means gaming a chick into bed. Whereas in the past, being a “Real Man” meant marrying a woman (translation: the man is “good enough” for a woman), today the “Real Man” is measured by his ‘notch count’ and prioritizing the pursuit (translation: man is “good enough” for a woman). The more things change, the more they stay the same. In either case, a man’s value as judged by himself, his peers, and society at large is predicated on his ability to meet a woman’s requirements. MGTOW is calling bullshit on that.

MGTOWs may date or not, but ultimately the importance of “success with women” is lower in their worldview.

bobbatosakosanose · 2015-01-05T21:54:52+00:00

MGTOW says fuck you to society that doesnt give a shit about them (as men) and women, who dont give a shit about 80% of men. I dont see the issue. So what if some guys are posers. There are plenty of PUA posers too, faking lays. As the SMP becomes tougher and tougher for men. Men will naturally drop out or go overseas. You are either AF or BB. These guys dont want to be BB. And not everyone can be AF.

LongtimeRPLurker · 2015-01-06T07:04:52+00:00

Everyone who says "a real x does y" tries to push his or her values on you. Don't listen to them.

RedPillSafe · 2015-01-05T23:46:47+00:00

MGTOW simply means you no longer are dependent on outside input.

If someone uses MGTOW as an "escape" or "excuse" that's not being honest with themselves which means they will likely relapse to being beta eventually.

Science could give an answer:

Simply measure the percentage of MGTOW's that revert to beta.

If someone claims MGTOW status it's like questioning whether someone was praying authentically in older religions. How can we know how authentic someone's enlightenment is to Red Pill?

MGTOW serves a purpose because it frustrates Cultural Marxism.

So whatever reason someone gives if they deprive Feminists of power this is a win.

MGTOW is the natural "reaction" to Feminism... not Alpha males.

watersign · 2015-01-06T01:33:34+00:00

not really into bloggers but enjoy reading/hearing what he has to say. he has alot of wisdom to share

[deleted] · 2015-01-06T07:24:59+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Whisper · 2015-01-07T00:35:31+00:00

This strikes me as a pissing contest. What is this argument even about? Who's a real man and who's a poseur? What good is that information to me? How does that improve my life? How is the resolution to this argument in any way useful to me?

Is it supposed to tell me whether I should devote time to pickup or not? Fuck you, I'll do it if I want to and not do it if I don't.

Men who have taken the red pill do not need another pack of talking heads trying to tell them what to do.

What they need is people who will tell them how to pursue the goals they have chosen.

ShitArchonXPR · 2015-01-08T18:16:05+00:00

I'm typing some highlights when I get back, because Captain Capitalism takes a long time to be concise and get to the point:

thrway1312 · 2015-01-05T20:52:02+00:00

The abundance of posers in MGTOW is my primary apprehension about the group -- it provides an umbrella/safety blanket for these kids to hide behind (like a 'thyroid problem' when you're really just a fatass) without actually learning what it takes to be a man (which includes interacting with women).

Thanks for posting this video /u/bsutansalt, hopefully it will induce a paradigm shift among the posers.

ScumbagBillionaire · 2015-01-05T20:08:35+00:00

Sexual Market Value and Actual Value are intertwined and inseparable.

To argue otherwise is to hamster away reality.

Sexual success always has been and likely always will be one of the measures by which a man's value is judged, in addition to his career/professional/academic achievements, his wealth accumulation, raising children, fighting in wars, physical stature/strength/appearance, building and maintaining community infrastructure, charity/philanthropy, etc.

MGTOWs try to devalue the sexual portion because they want no part of it but that does not change the fact that in reality, sexual success be it through notch counts or long term relationships with high quality women are part of a man's perceived value in the eyes of society.

Just like hippies and minimalists try to say that material wealth has no impact on human value. They can say that shit all they like but it doesn't change reality.

Which is why SMV and AV are directly correlated. When you command female desire, you are instantly more respected by your male peers and instantly more desired by your female peers.

When you are accomplished in business, war, and/or creation of tangible assets you instantly are more respected by your male peers and instantly more desired by your female peers.

The two are inseparable.

It's all part of the package that makes you a man.

Title	MGTOW - Veterans, boy geniuses, & posers
Author	bsutansalt
Upvotes	25
Comments	27
Date	January 5, 2015 3:11 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2rempu/mgtow_veterans_boy_geniuses_posers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/mgtow-veterans-boy-geniuses-posers.27516 https://theredarchive.com/post/27516