http://i.imgur.com/HwLov2f.jpg
I found this link from ForeverAlone, where it's been circulating for a while now. It struck me as a particularly red-pill truth that surprisingly came out from AskWomen, the home of political correctness.
If you read the link, the question asked was whether girls react differently when hot and confident guys (read: alpha) pay them attention rather than ugly guys. Now, we at RedPill are aware that no shit, of course they do. Girls flock to alphas.
But AskWomen, which usually nurses and encourages the Nice Guy mentality, couldn't lie to themselves about this one.
I feel mean admitting it, but sometimes a compliment from a guy I am not attracted to is like a job offer from a company I am not interested in. It's not really all that flattering, and depending how it's done, it can feel a bit insulting.
and...
When unattractive men have hit on me I have honestly been insulted. It's sort of like... someone seriously asking you if you want a minimum wage job.
This illustrates a pretty core redpill reality, which is that women are not only unattracted to beta guys - they are actively repulsed by them. They feel a sick sensation in their gut when they see an emasculated man. They feel an emotion similar to when someone steps in dog poop.
So remember this next time someone starts parroting about how nice guys and soft/gentle men win out in the end. She may marry you, but that don't mean she likes you.
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Don't try this at home, kids! You'll probably end up getting thrown out violently by some white knighting bouncer.
Just make sure you can handle that amount of rejection first. Low-SMV guys can get slammed pretty hard by the cold shoulder and ridicule.
Sure, but if the object is to have fun trolling hot women and not actually landing hot women, the nastier the rejection the more fun you can have.
This could be an effective strategy for getting over social anxiety. If you emotionally detach yourself from the result, you can get out there carefree.
Sounds like it could be a funny movie. Ugly guy gets rejected so much he decides to troll hot women for personal entertainment and then one time he actually gets lucky...and you write the rest!
Starring Ben Stiller as... the not so hot male model.
The rest of the story is just his increasingly-ridiculous attempts to get rid of her, all to no avail.
ye betas would love to fantasize
I've been saying this to guys with low confidence for years. Go to a club, hit on women, get rejected a lot, detach yourself from the outcome. If you are successful... Congratulations! Instant confidence booster! If you aren't... Well, that's just you improving your resilience through hard work. I discretely followed a friend of mine once while he did this. We were 17yo. He got rejected by 47 girls in one night. In one place. He didn't even care. Just got to the next one. He got lucky on the 48th.
No woman is worth this kind of effort.
I think this is bad advice. It isn't emotional detachment, it's having such low self-esteem that rejection is expected and trivial. Better for guys to avoid clubs (toxic environments for all men without very high SMV) and instead work on personal improvement until they are able to more convincingly "fake it".
This technique was popularized by psychologist Albert Ellis in his defining methodology, Rational Emotive Therapy. Yes, it works for most people.
Any more links for further reading?
Sure but it can be difficult to handle it at that level if you aren't prepared.
Yesss... but you can hardly be unprepared if that was the goal at the start the evening, can you?
Am I the only one who's messed with a hot chick because she expected beta and I was bored?
No, you're not.I mess with anyone, hot or homely, skinny or fat, just because I can. What difference does it make to me if she says no, someone else will say yes.
The whole point of that particular scenario is that you are completely prepared. Heck, you'd probably be thrown more if one didn't reject you, because you're going for a 100% rate.
Trolling chicks downtown in Chicago with friends as a teen was the most fun I've ever had in my life.
I used to play a game with friends saying. Who can get rejected by the most girls the fastest. It was a win-win and made us not scared for when we actually tried because failure was nothing. You win the game of having the most balls, or a girl is like "why the fuck does he care so little about me" and plays along with your fucked up pick up line and you get to put your penis in her vagina. Some of the lines used were "what is your spirit animal", "you have the sexiest nostrils I've ever seen" ... just retarded embarrassing stuff.
Most low SMV guys are invisible anyway.
And they dare making themselves visible by talking to them.
How dare you force yourself into my consciousness, i feel raped
Unless your goal is to go in to get rejected and ruin their week. Then the harder they deny you the better it is.
If they actually had this much confidence though wouldn't that make them alpha though? I mean I'm a bit confused by what we define as low smv? Are we talking about actual looks/fitness, confidence, wealth? I'm sorry I've had a fairly redpilled outlook on the world since childhood, but I'm kind of new to this sub.
Short, fat, no muscle, seriously goofy looks, acne, desperate. I've fucked with girls since grade school, simply because I could, and I used to be very low smv. Now I can play desperate loser Rob Lowe at will just to fuck with them, then switch to calm cool, confident Rob Lowe and confuse the fuck out of them. Attitude is everything.
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Because for parts of TRP, specifically those related to casual pickup, casual interaction and making a swift connection do have a lot of cross-over with the techniques of seduction. Y'know, just in case that went over your head.
He's endorsed because he makes a lot of good-quality posts that contribute the the furthering of the sub. He does not, for example, waste time bitching about the actions of others in this sub.
Easily, and in context it's correct. If you have a shit attitude, you will get shit in return.
SMV is your value as a guy. That includes looks (both genetics and gained through hard work), money, confidence, sense of humor and everything that gives women the tingles.
There comes a point when you are misanthropic and antisocial enough you do not give any fucks anymore what others think of you.
This is when you come out to play.
Myself, it took the actualization that my happiness, security, financial success, familial relations, personal relations, and self worth have nothing to do with any of the random women and men I may meet. So who gives a flip what they think. Give zero fucks.
Being visibly unaffected by their rejection also makes them wonder what they're doing wrong - they're usually good at rejecting guys, so if this one doesn't care, it must be them who's doing something wrong.
You're just giving the hamster a boost at that point.
Not saying it won't happen, but part time bouncer here. There is almost no one in the club I personally hate more than the self entitled 'hot chick' who thinks she gets everything for free, that the staff has to follow her every whim, that it's ok to dance on the speaker stack after I told her not too, that I give a shit about some guy hitting on her.
I for one would never throw a guy out for hitting on a hot chick, but then again I don't work in LA or Vegas so we aren't letting girls in based on their hotness.
I can't recall who, but a fairly famous comedian told a story about this happening to him.
About getting kicked out or about hating the self entitled hot chicks?
No idea what it's like to work at one of the clubs that has a velvet rope and lets in the girls based on looks. It would probably happen there since the hot chicks are what brings in the people who spend money.
We get all kinds of fat chicks, hot chicks, skanky chicks, but there's pretty much a guy for every type of girl that comes in and the all buy alcohol which is what the club wants. I hate working the door and having to listen to some girl tell me "what do you mean I have to pay the cover too?"
He was talking to a girl and the bouncer white knighted him.
That sucks. Shouldn't be like that, but doesn't surprise me. I've often kicked a guy out because a girl claimed he did something inappropriate like grabbing on the her or something... 9 out of 10 times we kicked the guy out so that he wouldn't get beat up by her male friends or some did white knighting trying to impress the girl. Did the guy actually do it? Who knows... does it matter at the time, no not really. Is it right? Not at all.
We need more bouncers like you.
Shit man this happens even if you are attractive and you piss off a less attractive girl by brushing her off but her friend just happens to be a white-knight bouncer.
I've been kicked out of every bar downtown where I live due to ignoring some girl or not being a footstool but she just happens to have the bouncer in orbit.
It's not white-knighting if it's his job. Of course, if he throws you out because "what you're doing is wrong" then it is, but if he's giving you the boot because "we're having complaints about you", no foul. It's his job to make sure the people who spend the money (or get others to spend it) are the ones who're happy.
Us men have been trained to self select on their behalf. How dare any BP chump buck the rules.
Also, compliments from a low SMV Guy are deemed to be insincere, because they are assumed to be seeking something in return. Compliments from a high SMV guy, who is implicitly drowning in pussy, are more likely to be sincere and he is less likely, in their minds, to be fishing for something more.
Which is funny because the high SMV guys are more likely to want something in return and the low SMV guys are more likely to become orbiters satisfied with friendship.
Nah, both seek to get their dicks wet, its just that a beta is too much of a pussy to make their intentions clear.
True, but high SMV guys are less likely to stick around and waste their time on a "friend" (someone who expects them to orbit them, who I wouldn't call a true friend.)
This is known. This is also me circa 1 year ago.
Going through this now, I'm trying to stay away from her now to move on (and you never know what could happen if I meet her again when I have higher SMV, but it's best not to focus on that). Luckily it's not that hard because we don't have any classes together.
When I was younger in my teens and early 20s I was like that. Not willing to let your intentions known or make a move. That behavior is just painful to think about nowadays. Especially with its abundance in movies and culture. The trope of the awkward guy not willing to let his intentions be known or make a move getting the hot girl over the high-SMV guy who does.
Yep, this was me a number of years ago, too. I was the 'best friend' and we spent every day together. She even broke up with her fiance because, in her words, she had more fun hanging out with me than him and felt that if she was meant to marry someone, she would want to be with them all the time. Didn't want to make her marry me, though - or even date me.
That's fuckin brutal. I feel your pain
Yep I'm that pussy, kind of getting over it tbh, getting better I think.
Gym, not giving a fuck, working on one self I think will get the trick done eventually.
Hence 'don't let the pussy turn you into a pussy'.
Wait, isn't he making his intention clear by paying her compliments just like the good looking guy that gets laid all the time would be doing?
You're using compliments wrong.
Let's make this a video game analogy. Well received compliments might get you some bonus points, but that's not going to get you past the level. The only way to do that is to move forward while avoiding fatal mistakes.
If you do nothing but sit there and get bonus points then you're just going to run out the timer and then it's player 2's turn.
Doesn't matter if they say the exact same thing, what matters really is the honesty of your intentions, your capability to be honest (vulnerable), not being needy and depend on the reaction of the girl, a male with high status with options doesn't get attached to the outcome and it shows. Really this topic should be a post by itself.
There was a post a few months ago about a YouTube video of a guy approaching a girl with a geek look and using beta body language who got rejected HARD, and then returning with a though look (the girl didn't recognized him) and hit on her and even got her to give him a handy.
Bitches make me laugh so hard.
I see you've been reading Models too.
Compliments are supplication, and are not interpreted by women as clear intentions.
Clear intentions = escalation. ie actually doing something to make sex happen, rather than handing out compliments and hoping she'll reciprocate [ie weak in her eyes].
I would agree with that, but the above commenters act like it does.
Sometimes I like to just compliment people with no intentions of taking it any further. If its a girl then unless she jumps on my dick afterwards then I dont take it any further. Sometimes its just a good idea to make people feel better about themselves and maybe they help you out if you need them to etc. Takes almost 0 effort on your part and can really help you out down the road.
What is given freely eventually losses value.
No, that's just the stupid shit you say to justify turning "nice guys" into the devil like the feminist cunt you are.
But not really. They all secretly harbor desires, especially for women who are out of their league.
Still though, funny to think about.
True, but guys with higher SMV have more options and don't tend to stick around if they know they can get the same thing from another woman. A guy with low SMV (especially one who hasn't realized rejection) might stick around as an orbiter with the hope of "maybe someday."
It's hamstering. She wants to fuck him so will rationalize his behavior as good
Yeah, already explained that to some girl at PPD who wondered how TRP explains how her "beta friend" (beta as in: supper-compliant, nice, acommodating etc.) happened to get laid all the time. Oh, he also was super-gorgeous.
My answer:
I was talking with a friend recently and trying to express this, but you've managed it really well in a paragraph. A man has to assume that a woman is talking about a guy she's already attracted to when she talks about ideal traits in that man. Many men, including myself, have fallen down at that hurdle.
I doubt many women would admit it, but I think this is the core of "Nice guys aren't really nice".
♂
They actually believe this even though it's so obviously bs as a man. They're both looking for something or else they wouldn't have taken any action.
It's like college. Colleges rank their value based on how many and who they can reject. If a school is only able to reject really shitty students and is very rarely accepting quality students, it looks bad on them.
Yes and no. Some schools will let anyone in because they get more money. They may be ranked low academic wise but they don't care since they have a high enrollment and are laughing to the bank.
Debate 101. You don't argue the analogy.
Thank you for this. Seriously.
I'm using an analogy here. In terms of prestige, those schools who let just about any one in aren't considered very good. You could say the same about women, "She'll fuck anyone, and she charges them and she's laughing all the way to the bank."
The point is, girls that aren't able to reject decent men, realize that they themselves aren't what would be considered quality.
I used to make a habit out of being trashed at the bar, approaching a small group of ladies and shouting "YOUR FRIEND IS HOT!"
Ever seen 4 chicks all analyze each other at the same time? It's even better shithoused.
I hope you smiled, walked away and let them argue it out - the daggers come out.
I walk away laughing like one of the hyenas from the Lion King. Pretty much all I'm capable of when I'm drinking.
I prefer yelling to my friend (so that they can hear) "Fuck no, I'm not hitting on the ugly one! No deal!" and watch them instantly lose a shit-ton of confidence.
I'm stealing this shit for sure
Reminds me of a game I read about a while back -- go out to the bar with some friends and intentionally try to get shot down.
Lets you see how much you can get away with and toughens your skin.
It's fun, but you have to limit restrictions. Anyone can just go up and be a dumb-ass, you have to do it subtly. When my friends and I played, we each picked a 'role' to take up to see how awesome we could do it. I picked a high school nerd, even dressed the part, and followed through for the entire night. What a fantastic night, so many disgusting looks.
That sounds fun. I kind of want to dress really shitty and try that.
Seriously. Just a small change in posture (shoulders forward, hunch over a bit, keep eyes downcast) and they'll think you're a low-SMV guy even if you're a solid 8/10 when you stand up.
You don't have to be low SMV to look low SMV.
I've never thought about it in that way before, this actually sounds kinda fun. The trick would be what is the best response when getting shot down? I'm guessing it would be best if the less you seemed to care the better.
Is this why the girl walking around NYC thing that went nuts a few months ago pissed off so many women?
You aren't ruining anything by hitting on a hot girl as a low SMV male. This is very egotistical thinking. Women simply do not care about your existence and if you try to talk to them they will move away or more likely just ignore you and keep talking to their friends. I'm sure in your mind you're some kind of alpha male who doesn't give a shit but in reality you're just another desperate loser paying his entrance fee to have his self-esteem smashed up some more and rationalising it by believing you are somehow trolling girls who don't even see you.
tl;dr Women only enjoy being "sexualized" by men who turn them on. Everyone else is "creepy."
The last comment is a woman complaining about the hordes of men who want to have sex with her. How dare these men have sexual desires for her! Stop oppressing her and know your place--as a sexless beta orbiter!
There's a broader point here, probably missed by some, later in her paragraph: if you want to have sex with a woman, fucking go for it, or hold your peace. If you let yourself get put into the friendzone, by not gaming her and trying to fuck her, by being a little bitch and hiding your intentions, you are her beta orbiter by your own choice. In very rare circumstances are you going to be able to, after your first or second meeting with a woman, be able to go from not directly pursuing her to directly pursuing her, let alone pussyfooting around asking her out by making it 'a joke' or some other bullshit. You have one chance.
If you don't immediately take it, next her, for the love of God. There should be three categories of people in your relational life: family/close male friends, suitable fucks, and nobodies. If she's not your mother or your sister and you aren't fucking her, she better be on the same tier as that homeless guy on the corner or the beer belly looser at work. If she's anything else, you let it happen.
Thats why you're a creep. You didn't just try to fuck her, you tried to trick her into fucking you. You should be ashamed of yourself, because that shady shit is gross.
I have no problem getting girls but I actually like having a few girls as friends. No it's not because I can't have them. I have a few female friends that want to get with me but I chose otherwise. My reason is because I'm just not that into them and they are a good way in with other girls they are friends with. I've ran through entire squads of girls because I was a good friend with one I never wanted to fuck. I'm all about TRP except this one aspect which is that it's impossible to be friends with a female. I'm not a beta orbiter but have chosen many times to not have sex with a girl when I see it wont benefit other situations I would prefer. Sorry but I prefer quality over quantity and banging any average chic I know I can stick my dick in.
I second this.
In addition to your reasons, I actually genuinely prefer talking with women when the topic is people/social situations. Here at TRP, we talk about things that women see constantly too, only they have an intuitive understanding of it.
It is fucking dull to talk to BP men about people. They're fucking idiots. It's just like trying to talk to your average women about highly rational topics. Forget it; you're better off sitting by yourself.
You can do what you want. Remember, AWALT.
Choosing to not have sex with a particular girl is sometimes wise; don't stick your dick in crazy or gross. Nowhere do I even suggest you should. You determine which girls are suitable to be around you, which ones are good enough for you to fuck.
I'm also not against social game. Having female acquaintances you use for social proof and not fucking is acceptable, just like using social connections to further yourself in your job. That doesn't mean they are friends, or fuck buddies, they're in your life purely for what they offer you.
if females really have nothing to offer you other than sex and more sex, i suggest you enter different cliques. Friends are friends. Not everything has to be about business or money or sex.
There are people who'd do gross? Wow.
I kind of disagree with the 3 category thing to be honest.
I have plenty of women in my life on the back burner.
I have no intention of having sex with them, nor do I pursue active friendships with them, they just kind of exist around me.
But on a rainy day/if I'm drunk enough, hey anything could happen.
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Yeah... I'd love it to be that simple too.
But both genders cannot simultaneously maximise their reproductive benefit, sexual priorities and social preferences.
What's good for one is bad for the other. Sure, there is a lot of common ground, but there is a lot of stuff where women and men cannot simultaneously win due to different preferences.
For you "let's hang out" makes sense. Low investment, potential large rewards, zero consequences. For her it doesn't. Low investment from a guy with no social credit nor visible options = poor genes and no support.
And from a more practical modern viewpoint - are you better than her other options? Are you dangerous? What if you turn out to be low social value and she is seen with you? Sure, she might not care.... but she sure fucking cares that her friends care. And they will. And she knows it.
Get yourself into the top 5% of men and I bet "let's hang out" works just fine without even the "I like you" part.
This is known as the "Anger" phase.
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And the waitress is practicing politics
As the businessmen slowly get stoned
Yes they're sharing a drink they call The Red Pill
But it's better than drinking alone
Cheers mate. Shit's better with friends.
It's not sad at all. It's simply how it is.
I do have a couple female friends that don't fall into those categories, but that's because they're in committed, long-term relationships and because I have no sexual interest in them. So in that sense it's basically just like being a close male friend.
Remember, AWALT. These women may be decent people because of their mates, but don't forget for a second that under the right circumstances they will abandon any and all social contracts to get a leg up. For some, due to how they were raised, religion, whatever, those right circumstances might be more extreme, but there exists a tipping point for every woman.
I use to go to the club with a hot female friend that we know since for ever. She is like a magnet for other girls, is like they see me with this girl and they think I'm interesting or something.
"...WAY too many relationships have been destroyed..." she says when the feeble beta attempts to capitalise, and sexualise what she overtly intended to be a one-way orbiter-attention-providing relationship. Why else would she allow it? He's trying to hit above his station, and should know his place, and privilege to even be there.
The thing is, both sides of the parties are pathetic, that bitch not realising how primitively egotistical she's being and beta guys who are just plain pussies.
This is true & much more pronounced in women ...but honestly, how do you feel when a 6/10 makes a pass on you?
I get a creepy ass feeling of desperation, being too eager is a turn-off for guys too ...unless the chick is attractive.
As guys its no big deal because we don't judge our self worth based on that, but it's still an unpleasant interaction.
Meh. Nah. It's a little bit pathetic and sad sometimes, but still can be a little flattering nonetheless. I would never say it's actually a negative experience for me, even if she is a nasty hambeast.
There is a certain pressure to avoid hurt feelings and uncomfortable situations. It can get awkward if handled poorly. I agree though - not a negative hit to my ego.
Yeah, generally it's fairly flattering or at least amusing. So long as they take the hint it isn't going to happen and don't go mental. But I'd also not care if I was offered a minimum wage job (referring to the OP analogy). It's like being offered $500 for your [decent] car. Or $10k for your house. Who cares?
People are free to lowball their offers to me - I do not define my worth by these things, I define my worth TO OTHERS by the highest of the offers I get, not the lowest. Can't blame people for trying it on, just don't waste my time.
Ahhhh but women do not think like this. Low value [to her] men are supposed to see her as out of their league and not even try. How dare they think they have a chance, which implies they think she is at their [low] level and therefore it is an insult. AND she gets all the delicious attention from her indignation.
Hell I'd do the same thing if I had no self respect and anybody would listen ;)
As someone who experiences this regularly, it gets old, but I'll be completely honest. It feels fucking great. Most people would enjoy the validation.
Women are lying when they say they hate it.
I suppose the context of women was the discussion here, agreed. Getting hit on is almost an evolutionary need on some limbic level because it indicates their ability to garner the protection/provision of a man & therefore survive.
What, covered in his own bodily fluids?
In a perfectly ideal feminized world, only 8+ men would be allowed to have sexual drive and the rest would be content to be sexless and silent. This is what women want, but they know they can't ask for it outright.
Instead they accomplish this via Feminism. Only weak betas listen to what they demand. "Don't approach women in public! Don't intimidate her! Listen to everything she says!". Dominant alphas plow right through those requests.
It's a perfect setup that scares weak men from approaching, without making it overtly seem as such.
a while ago, my ex told me that an unattractive guy was staring at her and her friend when they were working out at the gym. her friend said "yuck, I wish that ugly guy would stop staring." I asked my ex if it would've been ok if he was attractive and with no hesitation she said "yeah it would", while looking at me like I was retarded.
so yet again we have it confirmed. it also feels great to not only read about stuff like this, but actually experience it first hand.
Notable here is the lack of introspection or any other kind of thought on the matter. This is pure stimulus-response.
And then they pretend we men are the impulsive ones. Always flipping the tables.
I think this kind of touches on what I hate about women and believe men are superior in.
If total honesty was given:
Man - I don't like that ugly woman staring at me. I'd be fine if she was attractive, I'd want that, but I'm not going to demonize this ugly girl for looking at me. If she talks to me I'm not going to be insulted, or angry. I may try to end the talk fast, but I'm not going to shit all over her. I wish it wasn't like this, but whatever.
Woman - Ew, why is that creepy loser staring at me. What the fuck. He's probably a rapist. Oh, look at that hunk staring at me, maybe I'll stretch a little for him. Why doesn't he come over here and talk to me?
No introspection, no objectivity, no sensitivity, and if you suggested to them they should feel those things they'd be astounded.
Women simply lack class when it comes to rejecting unattractive men.
It's all sorts of crazy talk to me. Hot or ugly chick is staring at me or hits on me and I'm flattered. Actually fuck that, hot or ugly anybody staring or hitting on me.
I've been hit on by fat chicks, hot chicks, in shape dudes, out of shape dudes, old dudes at the gym, and grandmotherly old ladies that have a strange gleam in their eye after they say something old people generally can get away with saying and people think nothing of it.
Another thing, they expect everything to come at them smh
I've had women let me down exactly how you described the men. NAWALt.
like this?
External politeness is different from the internal monologue.
AWALT.
How the fuck does that matter to you or anyone? What a massive double standard. Not to mention the fact he is being upvoted for saying nothing more than he hates women for some subjective, perceived reason about what he thinks they think.
I thought this was fucking TRP, but I guess it isn't. This thread is full of disgusting BP theory.
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A furry? What does that mean?
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I used to think like this.
The truth is that men are ugly too in some ways.
If you want to call something ugly, and simultaneously make an important point, call feminist dogma ugly. That's what makes men become weak, depressed, and endlessly frustrated when the reality they're forced to conform to (feminism) doesn't match the way things actually work.
Men want sexy women. Women want sexy men. The only difference is that men don't have a bullshit ideology they aggressively force and intimidate everyone into believing despite any simple evidence to the contrary.
Sadly, there's really no "master-race" that has no flaws. There are a lot of shitty men, a lot of shitty women, and the vast majority of people have flaws which may or may not be dealbreakers to you. One of my most memorable experiences was just after getting a hang for the Red Pill ideas, and I realized that a girl I'd had oneitis for for a long time wasn't actually relationship material. A harsh wakeup, but liberating.
/r/pcmasterrace disagrees, I imagine.
can confirm. filthy console peasants.
Console = sofa, PC = chair
the potato isn't the better machine, it has the better system in place. Unless you don't like people
What if I tell you that I have my pc connected to a 50 inch TV and play modded games from my sofa?
That weak local multiplayer though, I have to say that is the biggest flaw of PC gaming
Eh, it matters less for adults. Once you're older than 18 and all of your buddies live more than a couple of blocks away, the local multiplayer doesn't compare too well to online multiplayer.
More often than not, when the rare occassion pops up for local multiplayer, my PC is used for emulating old SNES games rather than going for an actual console. YMMV.
Playing old Mario Party games is still awesome. Could make a fun drinking game as well.
Along a similar vein, my original path down TRP was years ago (before this sub existed) in pusuit of a oneitis who was IMO the ultimate woman. Once I got myself in order I realized I didn't want her. I could have her, even today, and I still like the girl, but I friendzoned her. She's smart, cute, funny, sexy, crazy, manipulative, self centered... I understand what makes her tick now and those realizations made her not very attractive to me.
theres a nice fuzzy grey area thats 'good enough'
I stopped caring about looks, once I started realizing all the hottest women I knew and had dated really do have fairly serious character/physical flaws. There really are no 10s...
kind of freed me. Unfortunately 90% of women can't have a conversation without me wanting to stab myself in the neck with a pen. I've pretty much had to expose my 7 year SO with museums, TED talks and reading just to train her to be good conversation.
Paid off in spades
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Don't forget about the weakness of beta men. It takes two to tango in this game.
bout as ugly as anyone else.
I find it funny that, for all the talk of taking women off the pedestal; how is it we are surprised when we find out that the ratio of female assholes is about the same
Maybe you're all just bad people who continually attract bad people that keep reaffirming your belief that women are bad people.
If a compliment has no sexual meaning behind it (an old man tells a girl she has a nice dress) then the girl will like it.
If there is any sexual meaning behind it (10 hours walking in NYC) then the girl will be turned off.
Of course, if you have an objective SMV higher than the woman then she will like it.
This. The video about the girls walking he got pissed because low SMV`s were the ones hitting on her.
Well didn't one chick do the same thing in Australia? If memory serves the girl got mad because none of the hot Australian men didn't even do a double take n her. She wasn't worth the time of day to those guys who could easily pull a chick much hotter then her.
Yep her boyfriend also hit on her in a train/subway like that but he had a higher SMV so she liked it and they hooked up.
I just imagine how I feel when I come into contact with a masculine, overbearing, controlling woman. It's repulsive to me. I believe women feel the same way when looking at a thoroughly beta man.
Thanks for this bit of insight. It makes much more sense when put this way.
If a masculinized dyke approached me and tried to hit on me, I would be very, very uncomfortable. If she said anything or did anything even remotely sexual toward me, I'm walking away. Same thing with a fat chick, I don't have a BBW fetish, sorry babe.
Most women are straight, and they are attracted to men, not women in a man's body. Yuck.
Even a woman who's not necessarily the butch/dyke type, though. Women who are controlling, domineering, bitchy, bossy, and loud. Those traits are just hideously unattractive, and on a woman with an already low SMV, they're flat out intolerable.
It's no surprise to me that the friends of mine that identify as a feminist are still single and about to hit the wall. Their masculine attitudes are just plain unattractive.
Only betas would stick with a girl like that.
I know a girl that fits that bill to a T, is slim with a very nice chest but a below average face. She's the only girl that hangs around in a group of five low SMV men (comp.sci, mathematics, engineering) one of whom is her boyfriend.
She (physically) flirts with the other guys a bit - even when her boyfriend is there and they lap up the attention.
No man with a high SMV would tolerate that.
Hey now. Just because a guy is in engineering doesn't automatically make him low SMV. Maybe those guys tend to be more BB, but it's a respectable and high earning profession.
But yeah, you're right, a man with high SMV absolutely would not tolerate that crap.
Also, to add, I bet they feel insulted when an attractive male fails to give them attention.
When I was in school (about 15/16), one of the girls was sobbing hysterically one afternoon, like a relative had died unexpectedly or something. She hadn't had a bf before. Turns out there wasn't a death in the family, but instead a low SMV guy had asked her out. It really was the ultimate insult, and there was nothing she could do about it... I don't know what her friends were saying to comfort her, probably something along the lines of 'don't worry, your SMV is way higher gurrrrl'.
What the hell was that last bitch rambling about
basically saying that it gets old when she goes out and get's dolled up and no good looking guy that she's "trying" to attract will notice her/talk to her, and only the guys that she doesn't find attractive will be the one to notice/compliment her.
Well, then she clearly isn't as attractive as what she feels, is she.
I find this behavior most frequently in lower SMV girls that have fucked a few higher end guys, but can't get them to commit to them.
That, and things like Tinder where girls receive constant validation from thirsty betas has raised the price of pussy.
The Dutch tulip market has nothing on this bubble.
I'm investing in bitcoin and pussy.
Pretty much all Western women have this problem. Even considering women can usually bag a guy 1 or 2 points above them, they still overestimate their own SMV. (ie, 6's only looking for 9's or above)
Cya guys later I'm off to the gym!
Off to the gym? Ha! I'm way ahead of you, I already went to the gym yesterday.
Yeah I go 4-6 days a week I just meant I was off to the gym again after reading this lol
Disregard females and get shredded!!!
Why is this upvoted? This comment adds nothing valuable to the discussion.
To be honest, I've had women I think are unattractive tell me they think I look good, or would like to talk, and I feel the same way.
It's true. If they're hideous or really fat, I'm just like... "How dare you."
Shit man, at least ugly guys can get fit and make money and raise their value. Ugly women? Not a whole lot they can do.
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True. All you've got to do to spare the girl's feelings is to do a bit of acting, say you're a doctor or something. Makes her feel better, you'll do better: win-win!
I think we agreed earlier on this sub that the definition of an alpha was someone who gives women the tingles, so by definition there aren't any unattractive alphas. (Though one particular woman might certainly find a particular alpha unattractive on a certain day.)
Sure, I'll engage you on Semantics. No, alphas are not unattractive. However, one's a fool to suggest that physical appearance is all that women find attractive. It's a very narrow minded way of thinking. I think the idea that this sub actually propagates is that alpha is defined by several factors including:
-Carriage and demeanor -Charisma -Intellect -Physical appearance -Social status -Education level -Economic status
My point was just to say that this woman writes off the fellas she finds PHYSICALLY unattractive. That's fine. But OP suggested that that means they're betas. Excellent faulty logic. Try this: They're alphas because they meet several of the other criteria. Because they're alphas, they're not chasers, so when they see the woman make a hasty judgement, they stop their advances and the woman never finds out that they're a patent attorney, a doctor, an architect, an engineer, etc. All of which would/could have swayed her opinion heavily in the other direction.
So yes, we can agree that an alpha is "attractive" by definition. But no, we cannot agree that being physically unattractive makes you a beta. And if you hold that opinion, it will hold you back because you will sell yourself short against other men whom you might outstrip in any number of areas, but you believe are superior to you because of how they look.
don't do that Tallwheel.
OK. So basically when you used the word "unattractive" in the first post above, you meant unattractive in a strictly physical sense. We would be in complete agreement, then.
I think you need to be careful, though, when using the word "attractive" in reference to males. A man's attractiveness is obviously not determined by his physical traits alone. Should be qualified as "physically attractive".
"Looks don't matter!! Only how confident you are and how much game you have matters!!"
Riiiiiight......
Try picking up a girl with this face -
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.99805.1313909065!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_635/gal-gn-johnmatuszak-1-jpg.jpg
Looks don't matter THAT much, but they certainly do matter. This PUA nonsense about looks being immaterial needs to be stamped out already.
Whatever, brah that dude's a movie star
@ isthatyourdaughter - lol he's got high value to override his trainwreck of a face
To be fair, most men are going to be near the center of the bell curve on attractiveness.
So to the -average- man, game WILL increase his sexual situation dramatically.
Plus, the PUA nonsense is obviously intended for beginners. Does attractiveness matter? Of course. Will a guy, any guy, PROBABLY be better off if he acts like it doesn't matter at first? Yeah, probably. He'll have higher confidence and do things he otherwise wouldn't have, talk to hotter girls than he ever has before. He can figure out what his actual SMV from observing how the market reacts to him.
I'd say I'm average to slightly below average SMV based on physical appearance (I'm short), and I remember going out with a buddy when we first started out, and just him and I shouting at each other at one point, "THIS SHIT WORKS!!!!", because we were so excited at the reaction. I thought attractiveness didn't matter - and my average attractiveness level kept skyrocketing for months and months as I kept realizing I could do better.
This is kind of my point. Sure, guys like Channing Tatum or Leo DiCaprio are what you would consider conventionally attractive. But, just like with female celebrities, I can find guys in my hometown that would likely match up.
I just don't think the discrepancy between what is a good looking man and what is an average looking man is all that significant. I think it's mostly in our heads. The guys with the looks might have a slight advantage but once they get some momentum going, they just run with it. Then, all of a sudden we see good looking guys with beautiful women and high status and we assume it's due to their looks. However, correlation does not equal causation and it's likely just the fact that they played the game better.
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I'll just add my opinion onto your point... there's certainly a significant difference. It's drastically easier for the good looking man. But, the take home message for the average guys should be...you can compete. You might never make it to the NFL, but you still may play some top tier, d1 college ball, even if it's just special teams. Occasionally you'll get out there and play at a high level.
Yes, just because I try to think outside of the echo chamber that is TRP then I must be delusional.
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All you've said is that I'm delusional and I'm falling for a sham. I'm trying to have an honest conversation about my point of view and you're giving me no reason to think otherwise.
What's the most attractive quality in a man? Is it height? Muscles? A masculine face? or is it confidence?
I contend that it is always confidence above everything else.
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Change what you can change, don't worry about what you can't. If you look like Mickey Rourke don't despair, you can still probably bag a 5 or 6. It all feels the same with the lights off, and if she isn't blindingly beautiful chances are you're less likely to do something stupid like put her up on a pedestal.
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I disagree completly. Good looking losers are frustrated as all hell. Looks can get your foot in the door, but if you are a low confidence annoying dweeb it won't get you much farther. That's what shit tests are for: once the guy makes the cut in the looks department, the shit test filters out the good looking losers from the breeding stock. You need both.
This was me. Girls would approach me, and quickly lose interest as soon as they figured out I was an awkward beta loser. It didn't take long for them to figure that out either. My body language upon being approached would give me away immediately.
So, obviously, both looks and game are important. If either one is completely lacking you are fucked either way. Even if you excel at one, the other must be at least an acceptable level.
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Disagree on a couple of points.
Looks aren't binary. Men have a scale of physical attractiveness just like women. Therefore there is no magical standard where other male traits aren't important.
Shit-tests never stop.
And you really think most guys know how to not be annoying or awkward?
I agree with this. If you're good looking anything you say can be considered attractive.
Nah. If you turn up the beta faggotry shit, they'll grow to despise you despite your attractiveness. It does certainly give you 100x more leeway than an average dude however. As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, "looks don't matter" vs "looks are all that matter".
I would say the truth is the middle but more on the looks matter side though.
Not true at all. If you act like an unconfident loser they will still end up rejecting you. This was me in my early 20's.
Game is absolutely vital.
That's quite an extreme example.
Take a guy who's of average height and build and looks become inconsequential when a man has status, money and game.
That's why I added that looks don't matter THAT much, but they do in fact matter. The PUA industry tries to peddle this patently false notion that looks are completely inconsequential, that the guy must focus entirely on his game, when the fact of the matter is that girls DO factor in looks. The PUA industry runs parallel to red pill thinking, but it avoids areas that do not benefit ($) them. Not every guy must look like a spitting image of David Beckham, but it does happen often that a girl rejects a guy because she simply is not into his 'look', irrespective of what he might be able to offer outside of that.
Couldn't have said it better. Things are rarely black and white.
If looks really didn't matter, you wouldn't have to work out. Of course looks matter.
But by the same token, if you keep your weight down and have reasonably defined arms you're gonna pretty much be at least a 6 no matter what your face looks like. That's the upside to obesity in half your competition.
This x 1 million. When over half your competition is out of shape or obese, being fit alone will carry you far.
Especially in the 30-ish crowd. Late 20's to early 30's seems to be the range the majority of suckers have given up.
I wouldn't say that obese people are competitors at all. Go to a bar where women are, and most guys there will be reasonably fit.
Sure, but that's because the fatties don't show up, not because they wouldn't show up if they were thin. If you mean "they're not even competition" in the dismissive sense, then yeah. But imagine how much harder things would be for you if every time you went out the club had twice as many men.
Of course. That's how they make $$$$
I'm not entirely sold on that line of thinking. If we go back to our caveman days, what purpose do looks serve? They do not make you stronger or smarter. They do not increase your utility.
I think of looks as an asset and not so much a core feature of masculinity. Good looks provide a halo effect which improves your sociability. However, game could certainly overcome this as well as pure brutality.
However, it's unmistakeable that looks play a role as conventionally attractive people seem to have an easier time with women.
I just want to explore the topic further.
Going back to our cave-man days, looks are everything. "Handsome" is synonymous with looking healthy and virile. Overweight, diabetes ridden, downs syndrome, low muscle tone, low testosterone males get rejected because they don't look like healthy men capable of protecting, providing and producing healthy offspring. "Game" is a secondary attractor because it measures intelligence and confidence. Confidence is an indicator that not only do these good looks make this man capable of competing, but their confidence indicates that successfully competing is routine for them, otherwise they would be a depressed timid beta male.
serious?
Good looks signal good genes.
A strong, masculine face/frame signals high testosterone. testosterone is known to supress the immune system.
Therefore, a strong looking high T man who looks healthy probably has a great immune system.
In short, a male that looks good is a good sign that his offspring will be healthy and viable.
Fair enough. However, I don't think the discrepancy between a good looking man and an average looking man is all that great. To make the claim that good looking people have better immune systems than us average folk would require strong evidence.
you've probably never used tinder.
I'm an average looking guy based on my photos on facebook
In the flesh, im 6ft (tall enough), good body, good posture, confident etc. On facebook i swipe right on almost everyone and get maybe 1 match for every 100 i swipe. Its usually a gross chick
I dont think im overestimating my looks as i always had low self confidence etc until a couple years ago. Im prob a 6/10 or 7/10 on a good day. Cant get a look in on tinder
There is plenty of evidence for testosterone suppressing immune system dude.. The rest is just inference that makes sense according to logic
Back in the caveman days then height would be almost a must. But short guys get girls.
Humans are pack animals. Leadership ability, competence and resource-provisioning has always been selected for among humans.
Let's say you take a stone age equivalent of Napoleon or Vladimir Putin - obviously a crazy smart, ruthless man who is in a short body. These are men who are obviously far to the right on the bell curve of intelligence, and they would certainly pop up in our ancestral environment as well.
This man is able to, either through manipulation or pure ability to realize things about the natural environment, procure more food than his competitors, and to convince others to be his body guards. We even see this today in some parts of the world enough that it's something of a trope in movies - the smaller but smart drug dealer (mad scientist, politician, etc) and his gigantic body guard. In this case, the higher status of the men commanding the physically fitter men is a cue to breed - if he is so small and yet still able to command huge bruisers and get many resources, there is SOME quality about him that makes him worthy to breed.
Not necessarily. Our capacity for domination and violence lies mainly in our weaponry and associated skill-set. Think David and Goliath.
Going back to caveman days, women that have wider hips were probably more attractive for biological purposes. I've heard the theory that breasts developed the way they did when we began to walk upright. (Reason being that it would show easier that a woman was ready for mating or something like that.)
Males were probably more attractive for other reasons like muscular build.
Some tribes around have painful rituals that show which men can take the most pain and that makes them more attractive in their tribe.
Nowadays, scientifically speaking, symmetry in someone's face controls a lot of attraction.
How that makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint, I'm not sure. But standards of beauty have changed over time. Hell, in the Middle Ages being a fat woman was ideal beauty. (Well perhaps not morbidly obese, but you get the idea..)
Looks are literally your genealogy expressing itself (phenomology.) Things like a chiseled jawline, the X body shape (broad shoulders and legs, skinny waistline,) a deep voice and being tall are all attractive genetic traits you can only manipulate to a certain extent. These affect your ability to be socially dominant, and more intimidating in a conflict situation.
Attractiveness would most definitely have been relevant back in caveman days.
Then there's mastery of your environment, dress style and other categories of SMV improvement.
Average height? As in no short. You added something that puas tell that doesnt matter. It does.
Bitches love the Sloth.
Fun fact - For those of you who remember the movie Caveman (yeah, with Ringo Starr, that one)... Sloth was "Tonda" in that movie.
I agree that looks are a huge part of getting attractive women, but when you're a 6 or 7 it's possible for confidence to make you an 8. Unwavering confidence is an energy/pheromone that women can instinctively pick up on. It's amazing how far it can take you.
Every PUA i've known about has ALWAYS said looks matter....
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Did someone mention sloths? Heres a random fact!
The algae in a three-toed sloths fur supplements the diet of the sloth. This algae growth would not be possible without the help of a species of moth which lays eggs in the sloths fur! Woah!
Thank you for subscribing to SlothFacts.com !
From the youtube video of the Girl that was walking in NYC getting hit on. Look at her face, each time a guy makes a comment that she's beautiful.
Each time she looks extremely repulsed by all the guys, be it old or young that are telling she's beautiful
Now, imagine if Leo Dicaprio or George Clooney had walked along her and told her shes pretty, it would of made her entire year.
If you have low SMV, you're invisible to women. It's like you don't exist
The same is true for women and men respectively. That's the point of the SMV measure.
You don't see anyone (outside of very specific fetishes), dating 400 pound women.
And yet, if the 400 woman offered free blow jobs and sex she'd get 10 guys instantly. No 400 male would have his offer accepted of free cunniligis and dick.
Not real affection I know. But just driving home the fact men of low SMV = invisibility. Women of low SMV will still get plate status in worst case scenario
That's true of virtually all guys though, except for perhaps the hottest of the hot men - free offers of sex are meaningless to women.
And a 400 pound woman and a 400 pound man are not necessarily exact equals in SMV. A 400 pound man could date a below 400 pound woman (though still almost certainly obese) if he had everything else going on in his life. If he had nothing going on in his life (as he probably doesn't), then yes, his SMV is lower than the woman's.
Baseline SMV for a woman is higher than it is for a man of equivalent weight/attractiveness.
I remember explaining this to some women in University. I was trying to tell them that the feeling they get when they find a guy hitting on them "creepy" is the same way men feel when a fat girl hits on us.
They didn't seem to like the idea that it wasn't the guys fault for being creepy, and that it was obviously my fault for my feelings toward the fat girl. I was laughing that they couldn't see the double standard.
they must see it how can they not, surely they're not just trying to control frame?
It's really hard to see someone else's perspective when you're busy pretending any perspective outside your own doesn't exist.
Yeah, they must have seen it yet tried pretty hard to explain how it was different. The girls there could be pretty crazy.
That's the difference between flirting and harassment. If she finds you attractive (i.e. would fuck you).
what I am wondering is:
how MUCH difference does your approach make on whether you are the "how dare you to talk to me" guy she is not attracted too and the "wow you can say and do what you want to me and I'll still say yes" attractive guy?
Is your fate already sealed from before you open your lips? How much wiggle room do you have?
I am asking because I see plenty of vanilla guys with a poor approach still elicit a positive response (with the girl saying "he barely talked to me! he was looking away from me! it must mean he was not interested as a rationalization for what is in fact beta behavior) and plenty of average looking guys/ ugly guys saying the right things but still eliciting a poor response.
On top of everything else, the 60/40 principle still applies: peoples' reaction to you is 60% them, 40% you. I think I learned about it from an RSD video, but it's written about here:
http://www.thesocialman.com/why-your-conversations-are-falling-flat/
The minimum wage job comparison is illumating. Women are offended by the beta's overture b/c it scares them into worrying their SMV is low enough he might be rational for thinking he had a chance. 99.9% of the time it is this. 0.1% of the time it is b/c they are actually worried about their physical safety.
Louis CK's "Louie" show did this in reverse...a fat chick tells Louis that dumpy guys like him avoid flirting with fat chicks, but hot guys don't mind, b/c they are not worried anyone will think they are actually on the same level.
This is the most perfect confirmation of a red pill truth. And the women on askwomen are nasty hags so imagine what the actually attractive women think.
Keep working on yourselves gentlemen, because women are ruthless.
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You should hit on her again and report back the results.
Childhood scars running deep I see.
Do you guys feel that the value of compliments from women shift depending on how attractive the woman is? Just curious.
Personally I don't. To do otherwise is to pedestalize women in my opinion.
It's about the sincerity of the compliment, not the attractiveness of the woman giving it.
Unless a woman is giving off a really odd vibe, I generally take them all at roughly the same level. Although I would say there are distinct differences between women who compliment for something in return, women who compliment just to be genuinely nice (platonic), and those who compliment as a display of interest. Generally equally flattering though.
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I take the exact opposite approach: I completely discount compliments from married women as they're "safe" from the sexual market should you take their compliment as an IOI; they have a built-in soft rejection.
No. Hot women almost never compliment, and when they do compliment it's usually from a perspective of condescension.
It depends on the compliment.
If some hambeast says they like the shirt I'm wearing, then sure, that's just as good as a supermodel telling me that. However, that hambeast complimenting the curvature of my ass in my jeans has a significantly different gutteral reaction in me than the supermodel. Anything that makes me picture this girl/dude putting their mouth on my body is going to cause an emotional reaction in me proportional to the extent I want that mouth on my body.
I assume when women complement me they're pursuing an agenda. It's been my experience, anyway.
Attractive girl gives compliment: Either I think she's humoring, patronizing me, or setting up to manipulate me.
Unattractive women gives compliment: She's hitting on me. Kind of feel bad because I want to be nice a reciprocate, but don't want to lead her on.
I always take the nature and content of the complement into consideration. For example, if someone complements me on my vocabulary or some other aspect of intelligence or education, I accept it as genuine, as many others have given similar complements. If a woman tells me I have a nice ass, I'm immediately suspicious. (White guy, mom was on large doses of Noassatol during pregnancy). Given the dual nature of female sexual strategy, a man would be wise to view all interest from women with at least some suspicion.
this should put the war on "street harassment" into perspective.
hmm, i dont see how that relates to nice guys (i get your point, and partially agree with you though)
the women are going on about "attractive"-ness. not nice-ness. if you're rich/handsome and a social disaster you're a cute nerd. if you're rich but not handsome she'll convince herself she sees the real you. etc, etc. we know this all too well.
attractive means different things to a woman at the different phases of her life.
young -> alpha big john.
wall -> good guy tom builder
they are more brutal about it than men are though, is what i find. but then again, they would be. nothing wrong with that too i might add! a good dose of truth to the face is good to wake this slumbering couch potato of a male generation that we have these days.
so aye, be attractive, don't be unattractive. lift and improve. always.
I told my (now ex-)girlfriend that she was beautiful on occasion, so I didn't overdo it but she didn't really care, but when a random drunk, good looking dude said to me "Your girlfriend's hot!" when my ex was with me, she was so happy and flattered. I hate that bitch
They should put a label on Women: Third-party certification required for maximum enjoyment and pleasure.
Should she not have been happy and flattered? Put yourself in the reverse situation.
No, I have no problem with her being flattered with that stranger's compliment, but she didn't care when I did
That's because your compliment is pretty much already known, I mean you were dating her after all. It's a bit ridiculous to think a good looking stranger going out of their way to give her a compliment, (which is also indirectly a compliment to you btw) would give her no more flattery than one she hears from her bf. Do you get more excited when your mom compliments you than a neighbor who goes out of his way to?
The top comment
Is written by this woman:
http://i.imgur.com/xZk0WGx.jpg
Hypergamy much?
Weight?! She said "weight"?! Bahahahahaha!
HA. Almost anything would be hypergamy to her.
Aww its deleted. What was it?
Not the same one, but similar: http://i.imgur.com/ScLSKZ3.jpg
Holy, how did you get that pic?
I bet it's right there in her post history. The nerve of her, having opinions with that disgusting face!
Ugh what a bitch. Because clearly that one comment can be extrapolated to mean "I appreciate comments more from attractive people, therefore I am preoccupied with finding the most attractive (and richest, and most hung) man to
spermjackmarry"Chill out son. Why get mad at normal human nature? Hell even I'd appreciate it more if a bombshell model appreciated my muscles vs some fat old hag
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Can confirm. I matched with a woman whose first photo hid her obesity on Tinder, and felt repulsed when she messaged me. I wasn't able to have a neutral reaction (didn't take it out on her, of course).
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You do? I didn't. There was nothing wrong with her asking, even though it put me in an awkward spot.
its fine because at like 35 they are gonna be alone and divorced and some of these beta males will have money, women are twats just gotta deal with it
That's it. I'm gonna stop shaving, always have a beer can on hand and start speaking my mind... unfiltered and all that shit.
thats the way to go in any case... I dont see why you didn't do it before
Women are insulted when men who they think are beneath them show interest in them. This is because they judge their own SMV by the types of men who show interest.
They don't realize that a lot of men will try to sleep with all kinds of different women, from ugly to attractive. Men will go for women who are "above their league" and women who are "below their league".
So some women will get approached by men who are out of their league and it'll make them think their SMV is higher than it really is. Or they'll be approached by unattractive men and it'll hurt their self-esteem because they then feel unattractive.
The equivalent for women is "he may fuck you, but that don't mean he likes you."
Also, note how fucking heartless they're being toward the OP. Forget about content: They are not just speaking truth, they are saying it in a cruel way to a really nice guy who asked them for help.
Interesting how in both examples the women relate it to an unwanted job offer. Really drives in the marketplace analogies we use here regarding SMV
A great line to say to an attractive older woman, say in her mid 30's or so, who has that shit attitude of, "I'm hot and I know it" is, " I would love to date you........if you were 10yrs younger" or "you're so pretty.....not like you were a few years ago but still, not bad for an older gal" Just be sure to ducK if she swings.
And if she's in her early 20s, go with "... too bad you're so immature/cunty/narcissistic/such a princess/etc."
tbh this really does go with both genders. When an ugly girl flirts with me there is a pang of disgust as well, but I treat them nicely enough.
I take it in stride. Attractive or ugly, women are women. So even if a woman I am not attractive to, and there is no way I'm going to let anything escalate past that moment, I'll still go with the conversation. My conversation skills aren't the greatest so I just see it as another opportunity to enhance my skills. Afterwards, I go about my day and life.
Handle it with aplomb and take comfort in this piece of knowledge: if women below your league are approaching you, the you are doing something right. You are sending the right signals out to all women. You should be able to pull in your league and with a little work punch out of your current bracket into a higher one.
the men civilize the women not the other way round
i'm not following how what you just said fits into the context of what I said.
you treat them nice enough but you don't go kicking and screaming sexual harassment which is what women do if the male is below her expectations, I am saying you are an example of how men are the civility and not the women.
And we're not repulsed by horrendously unattractive women hitting on us?
Having a fat black chick hit on me on okcupid is like getting a job offer for cleaning toilets at McDonald's when I have an engineering degree.
Work on yourself so the mere act of talking to a woman does not bring her into existential despair. Work on yourself so your okcupid inbox doesn't reinforce how much you suck.
No I am not actively repelled. I remember a fat girl wanted to go out with me in high school.
I didn't want to, but I didn't know how to tell her "no" and spare her feelings either, especially because I suspected she would not get many chances with other boys either.
I flaked on the date as I recall. But I just felt stuck, it's not that I disliked her or anything.
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If you're the kind of person that cares if your actions genuinely hurt other people, emotionally or otherwise, I imagine you would still be pretty accommodating, if not more direct.
I don't justify women or give them a pass for being rude, just because they have to "deal" with people wanting to fuck them a lot. Poor them. I don't care if it's your 10,000th rejection that week, if you think you can just shit all over someone's heart and it's ok because you're "tired" of "dealing" with it, go fuck yourself right out of my life, thanks.
There's only so much time in the day. This is why celebrities come off as douchebags. They just literally don't have the time to deal with humans at a certain level.
Except they do have the time. Saying they don't have the time is a weak cop out.
For instance, assume someone runs up to Mark Wahlberg on the street and asks for an autograph. In the time it would take him to say "Fuck off, dude." he can say, "I'm sorry, I can't right now."
My point is this: If they have the time to be rude, they had the time to be kind. They simply chose not to.
This whole scenario reminds me of a quote from Warcraft 3. For context: The demon Kil'jaeden is climbing Mount Hyjal, set to destroy to World Tree and the world itself shortly thereafter. The only possible way the races of the world can survive the onslaught is to set a trap for Kil'jaeden, something Malfurion Stormrage sets off to do. By some fantasy logic, according to Tyrande Whisperwind, setting this trap would sap the Night Elf race(Stormrage and Whisperwind are Night Elves) of their powers of nature and their immortality. Setting this trap, successfully saving the world would cause the Night Elves to face their mortality for the first time since they came to exist. Not only that, they would dwindle in strength over time. A difficult choice, to which Malfurion states, " If pride gives us pause, my love, then perhaps we have lived long enough already."
All in all, you are NEVER in such a position, state or status that you cannot act with kindness to someone above or below you by any metric. To pretend that your treatment of others is somehow anything but your responsibility is nonsense.
Personally I don't really care if women I'm not attracted to show interest in me. I only get annoyed if unattractive women are too aggressive and persistent. If an unattractive woman looks at me on the street, I don't really care. If she follows me around for 6 months, and spreads rumors to stop me from getting with other women, then I'll be annoyed.
I get offended when fat girls hit on me, but I take their number anyway because Jaegermeister.
Women are so fuckin evil it's disgusting
You know, sometimes I think that too. But you have to think with a cooler head and repeat after me:
" This is apart of evolution"
" For whatever reason, attractiveness (which does not intimidate predators from another species, natural threats such as rock slides or discourage potential aliens from zapping us) is viewed as genetically superior and therefore desirable from an evolutionary standpoint"
" I ask my body to grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change and the courage to change the things which I can"
Lololol yes, women can be so much more than that.
And there are many kinds. You probably haven't met the psychopaths yet, to consider that as evil.
that is awesome, referring to a beta as a minimum wage job. whats even better is that she has no idea how much she let the cat out of the bag
And this is why the universe in its infinite wisdom, created hitting the wall.
Wait I thought they were referring to unattractive men, not "soft" men. Obviously, the latter are by no means chosen over alphas but I don't think they'd say they are disgusted by them.
I never understood how this is controversial, or a hidden truth. Hell, even I get a bit upset when an ugly chick makes a pass at me. Not the attention I want, I keep myself good looking for more than this.
Can't imagine how maddening it must be for women...
This is a very small example. I applaud the poster, but the responses are similar to that of a "we cured cancer!" news article in which everyone doesn't ask for sources.
Isn't this just about the problem women - in general - have with saying 'Please leave me alone' out loud? Where men - in general - have less of a problem with it, we're even seldom in that situation!
We think it's a cruel thing to say but we still do, but women will go along, further into the conversation and then get frustrated about how to get out of the situation, externalize the responsibility over the situation and blame lame guys for their own inability to cut a convo with the lame guy short.
"I didn't like being approached by him and he should have smelled that.."
ugly, older, masculine, and fat women experience the same thing. we are hardly any different from all other mammalian species.
MEN DEEMED "unattractive" BY A BUNCH OF KUNTS ON ASKWOMEN =/= BETA.
When Women ask me to be just their friend, I have honestly been insulted. Following your analogy, it's sort of like having an amazing degree and work experience, and someone seriously asking you if you want a minimum wage job.
Only what women don't realize is that just because someone will ignore the fact that you only have an associates degree in bullshit, they'll still offer you jobs worth 6 figures that require ph.ds. Then, after they take the job, they get fired after one day. Then when someone comes along with another offer them 40K a year and a 401K they still think they're worth the 6 figure job and have fooled themselves into thinking they have a ph.d. or equivalent.
Is this analogy getting stretched enough?
This shit makes me feel terrible because I've seen women treat men this way. I've actually female friends get mad at other guys for saying almost the exact same thing I said, and then when they're called out on it, they turn around and say "Well, it's different when Gold_Mouth says it". I'm not bragging, but everyday I thank God or whoever's running this shit that I pretty much won the genetic lottery. My social skills weren't always the greatest, but fortunately, that can be learned.
Straight up, hotness is the cureall.
No homo, but can you dedcribe yourself?
Physically? I'll try.
I'm 5'11", paper bag colored skin. I have dimples, thick lips, and a sharp jawline. My body adds muscle pretty quickly and fat pretty slowly, so I'm a skinny guy with muscle.
I'm also the pretty boy type, if that matters. I get my haircut every weekend, I like to dress nice, shit like that.
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... Were you born in '78?
Did you feel this way 15 years ago?
It doesn't matter how hot or ugly you think you are, but whether the guys is uglier than you.
Damn you guys are dumb. Ugly doesn't equal "beta".
Sounds like asking random women out is win-win.
At worse you insult a bitchy entitled brat.
At best you go out with her.
Well of course. You didn't think shaming men for this behavior was in YOUR benefit, did you?
Your comment doesn't even fit with context. Drop the dope, try again.
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Depends who you'll ask.
Some here will say that being ripped is enough. Others will say being well dressed and ripped is sufficient enough.
Then you'll have those special few in this sub who'll say you'll always lose to the guy who has all those things plus an attractive face.
This is one of those things where you honestly should decide what's right. Part of taking TRP is knowing no-one, not even this sub, will give you solid answers based on fact. They're view will be just as much opinion as yours.
Im about 99% sure the last one would implode or do something like go out in public and scream at the top of her lungs why nobody is paying attention to her if you were suddenly to take away all the attention and praise she gets in her life. She just couldnt handle it. None of them could.
Ive always found askwomen to give the red pill truth, when there's a genuine question that doesn't seem to oppose anything. Askreddit and twox is a different scenario.
I feel like we just reached the pinnacle of being the opposite of SRS.
This is pretty much a given. If you're ugly, don't try to pick up the hot chicks. No surprise there. I think most dudes know that being a "gentlemen" isn't enough. You have to also be attractive.
Now had they said something about how a guy can walk up and basically be rude, but attractive, and still get their number, that would be news. Or if the guy was ugly, but his confidence and game was on point and that caused them to happily give him their number.
EDIT: Similarly, if an ugly chick thought you were attractive, it wouldn't mean anything to you...
Unless you're uber confident and have some charm. Then you should go for it.
Game. And. Frame. Are. Everything.
Sometimes it's all in how you present the info.
A few things.
One, this works both ways. Ever done online dating? Ever see the women who email you? Yes, not a pretty situation. It feels a bit...insulting.
Two, this isn't "all women". This is a certain level of attractive women. 5's and 6's are likely happy if ANYONE compliments them. So this article doesn't apply.
Three, beta/alpha is a sliding scale. Just by approaching a woman, you are sliding towards alpha. Saying these guys are "beta" is missing the point.
This is a powerful redpill principle. I posted a field report awhile back illustrating this: Women are disgusted by Betas and cheat with alphas
I used to feel insulted that fatty's really liked my swag. That was "child" me.
The truth hurts, but I often see low SMV guys read too much into a girl being "nice" to them as "they're interested in me! awesome!"
So girls now just shun and outright ridicule low SMV guys. It feeds into their bitch egos
How do you talk to girls? Is this where I can get advice?
Hahahaha
Women actually feel that their good looks and sexuality are comparable to actual social value that a man can provide! Sorry, honey, but you're just pretty. Nothing more.
Uhm, looks are definitely part of social value.
Only if enough men think so and overreact to them.
How so? What do looks do for society?
They show good genetics, people want to breed with people who have good genetics. Attractive people make your brain's reward centre activate. There's something called "The Halo Effect" google it. Of course make-up makes women look like they have better genetics than they really do and immeasurably pumps up female SMV. Women know this and that's why some of them won't even leave the house without it. A girl who is a 5 but turns into an 8 with make-up WILL NOT leave the house without painting herself first. She knows the world would be a lot harsher on her if she went out looking like a 5 rather than an 8.
We judge people a lot on the quality of their skin, make-up makes women seem healthy/supple who actually aren't. This is also why obesity is ugly - it indicates to others you have bad genetics. Attractive people have an easier life, good genes are king. It's an evolutionary survival of the fittest type deal. Only way to override it is to horde resources/demonstrate extreme accomplishment. That doesn't make it immediately obvious your genes are good, but it is thought if you can accomplish something magnificent, despite bad looks you must have genes that make you good at earning money, or maths, or whatever it is that brought you your success. That assumes you're a man. Women are more forgiving of less than spectacular looks. Women can't really make up for being ugly. Men are obsessed with beauty/fertility/youth in women.
I understand your argument, but a woman feeling accomplished because she is pretty is absolutely ridiculous. She hasn't done anything for society. She only has "good" genes.
Whereas, men actually do things to improve society.
I'm not saying women don't do this, but we need to eradicate the women who sit around being pretty all day. Maybe then a woman can say,
Edit: no, honey, you don't have an amazing degree, you're just pretty.
It is pretty ridiculous that women act as if they earned their looks and popularity, but there is no getting around the fact that women's value is determined by their genes and youth, unlike men's. That's just the way it is, as IllimitableMan explained.
Sorry, a man making money, no matter what he does for that money, no matter how immoral... that's doing things to improve society?
When did this have to be about improving society? It never had anything to do with improving anything. Likewise, many women put a lot of effort into looking good. Diet and exercise, mostly. There are plenty of 10's out there who are actually 5's because they're 60 pounds overweight.
Breeding attractive children with big chances to succeed in life is a pretty big thing for society, isn't it? Especially nowadays.
Everyone should downvote op's post.
The subset of people (users of Askreddit) used to back up his points is extremely unrepresentative of the population:
Most guys browsing reddit are not "alpha". They are actually "beta". This explains the men's collective low partner count.
Most girls browsing reddit are ugly or socially awkward or broken and need to fuck guys to feel worth. This explains their collective high parter count.
Conclusion? Subsets formed from reddit (especially Askreddit) do not represent the population well at all.
you are saying that women not caring for compliments from men they find unattractive doesn't represent the general population?
seems pretty accurate to me.
for those angry at this... just gotta live with it. you like sexy chicks too, right? not fat ones? same brutality from both sexes. better get attractive and advertise your genes as best as possible. good luck
All they said was that ugly guys hitting on them made them uncomfortable. And like a true red piller, you twist it around to support your views, thus proving once again that the biggest problem with The Red Pill is not the Pill itself, but the pillers.
Well no, because most women go around saying the typical, "Well personality matters more than looks," crap. There was nothing twisted. Hell, it confirms what has been said outside of this subreddit. And that's that pretty people are treated better just because.
Well yes, because what had been said is that these women don't like being hit on by people they're not interested in physically. Here, this guy makes it into a personality issue saying that girls don't go for nice, doormat, beta guy. It's like saying to a fat girl the reason guys don't like her is that guys don't go for needy girls.
Except that guys do go for needy girls because they're easy ass.