Rather recently, an ex called me up telling me she was pregnant, she insisted that she knew I was the father of this aforementioned child. She was rather adamant I was the father. I asked her for a paternity test to be certain, it took some persuasion, she insisted, "It's not necessary, I know it's you, you're the father."
Eventually I convinced her to see if her claims were true. The paternity test concluded that I was not the biological father. She was honestly in hysterics, she claimed I cheated the test to get out of paying child support.
Honestly, this sort of behavior was why I discarded her. The child is not biologically mine, but she claims I should still help her out financially because she's, "Tight on cash."
Honestly I know she's tight on cash, because she liked to spend my money. I earn fairly good money, because I work hard and because I don't spend it like a simpleton.
It's not a hard concept, I feel sorry for her child, it seems like they will have a rather difficult childhood.
Oh, well, they are not mine so it is none of my concern.
The crushing disappointment she must have felt when she knew her meal ticket was gone. Not your problem.
"Your tears are so yummy."
-Cartman
Alternatively
"Mmm your anguish sustains me"
-Stewie
Did he actually say that? I can't remember jack shit ever since they changed him from a murderous sociopath into a gay boy genius.
Consequently, that's also when Family Guy started to go down the shitter.
settle down, gay Stewie is funny
I stopped watching family guy after season 6
Yup. The whole gay thing in the later seasons is just tiresome imo.
Here's the clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6i9BsYwspo
He's a fucking infant. Infants don't have a damn gender preference. It totally turned me off from the show. He was a great character before that.
He tastes Meg's tears and says it.
Yeah, that's a pretty fucking stupid move on their part.
"I say, wouldn't it be marvellous if I turned out to be a homosexual?"
Don't ever compare Cartman to Stewie.
"Ohh the tears of unfathomable sadness; Mmmmm yummy, yummy you guys!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g
Honestly, she's not very good at finances, I wouldn't put it past her to use that child support more for her support.
Don't most women do this? My mother did.
I'm sure a lot of women do. But from experience my mother did not. All of the little bit she got went to clothes, shoes, haircuts and the like for me. Obviously not at the same time but the things I needed or asked for here and there she used child support for.
My mother also took great care of myself and my two younger brothers. She pretty much didn't have a life of her own until two of us left for school. I can't talk to whether she did right by my father, but she honestly did what was best for us at her expense for our whole lives.
I suspect as this new more narcissistic, immature, and uncontrolled generation of women starts to have kids that we'll see worse and worse mothers.
I've always noticed men like to think more rationally in terms of finances, while we may want to buy something recreational, but we realize it may not be a good idea financially.
Women seem to like to impulse spend. They see it, and they buy it, I once saw her buy a $100 purse because it was on sale, $100 is still a fair sum of money.
Even over my supplement addiction I can be found deliberating for at least an hour before I buy something. Whether it's in the physical store or online on Amazon.
It's surprising consumer debt has actually decreased although now it's easier than ever for a ninny to hit "1-click buy" on Amazon without calculating budgets and thinking of potential financial consequences.
I don't think this is so much a case of "men are more financially responsible" in a blanket manner, as much as "people who don't have someone else to pay for their shit" are more financially responsible. Which is why so many women seem to be more irresponsible than men.
That's the emotion for you.
My friend's wife would have all these Louis Vuitton bags, like 12 of them. Each at a few hundred a piece. She just had to have them. Would love to see her walking about wearing all the same bags at once.
12 bags? She could have one for each month of the year.
My mother spend more on me than child support, so I don't think I benefitted her financially.
If the government really have a damn about the children they would regulate child support
They would regulate that the mother is providing for her children.
That money should be on a bank card of sorts. Documenting when, where and what was purchased. As it stands women are buying the boyfriend gas, jewelry, dinners & clothes. Or they spend it at the beauty salon.
Source; I have had girls buy me materialistic crap.
When my mom got child support for us, it was on a state issued card. I can remember my mom pulling it out at a store and saying this on your dad.
Really, child support has turned into a corrupt institution that demands reform. Otherwise men get financially punished and women get money.
More government intervention is not the answer.
Since its regulated by the gov, what else you can do? Nothing really...
Fucking right, and it goes both ways. I work with a woman who has 2 kids and has to pay her ex husband child support. Dude is a deadbeat, and she had to work 2 extra 12 hour shifts to buy her sons school supplies because the dude spent the money on a new gun.
Shitty people are shitty people and shouldn't get to use their kids to support them.
Finally. This is feminism taken to its ridiculous end... or, Modernity.
Yeah, oddly enough my ex applied for child support at the exact same time that her boyfriend moved in.
Ironic considering women a couple generations ago women were supposed to be the financially responsible ones dealing with the checkbook and bills and such that women of this generation can't even be trusted to have their name on a joint bank account.
Paternity tests are a god send. I wonder how these things were handled in the past. You'd prob get shamed / threatened into raising the kid. Actually that's prob exactly what happened for low smv guys in the past..imagine all the cuckolding that took place. Fuck.
Just be thankful you don't live in France, where they're illegal except under a court order.
I expected it to be bad but not this bad
Yeah. The reasoning is so thinly veiled it's hilarious. By that logic, women shouldn't care one bit whose baby they take home from the hospital, right?
Don't forget the part where it's punishable by a $15,000 (euro) fine and up to 1 year in prison.
I'd totally go to prison. 1 year in prison beats 18 years of child support hands down. Unless they'd still make you pay for it after you're released, in which case I'd just leave the country.
I wouldn't pay it. I'd leave the country if I had to, I'm not paying for some bitches little bastard that I had absolutely no hand in begetting.
Maybe were missing something here. If the guy has reason to believe his spouse cheated is the court reasonable in granting a test? We can't draw conclusions from a short blurb on Wikipedia. I doubt Frenchmen would be cool with raising other guys kids just like that
The article doesn't say how hard it is to get a court order, you're right. But that's not the point. It's outrageous that a man should need a court order to find out whether he's the biological father of his child.
that shit is so common in france they say you're not a man until you get your first mistress.
Preserve the flow of beta bux to cheating whores so the government doesn't have to do it.
That's an improper use of the term however.
The word they're looking for is actually "cuckold".
Except the woman has to go to court with a lawyer to claim child support, the same court that can order the paternity test. I don't think the judge will refuse to order it if you and your lawyer ask for one.
From french gov site:
"One who had intimate relations with the mother can discard the child support demand by proving by any mean, notably genetic assessment, that he cannot be the child's father".
So the paternity test is a right you have as a man to claim you're not the father when the mother is demanding child support.
The fact it can't be conducted privately, outside of court, is to prevent it to be made when the family is already established and when it could do harm. Like, realising five years later that you're in fact not the father.
The whole "fatherhood is determined socially" can in fact protect your rights as a father. When you raise a child as your own, he or she legally becomes your child with all the rights and responsability you deserve. You can't test your paternity to leave a child who is considered yours, the same way a woman cannot use this test to keep you away from the child who you consider yours.
I don't understand how this would be socially executed. If I were a Frenchman, I'd simply deny fatherhood until a court mandated a test to get money out of me.
Seems to me that the above scenario would be more disruptive to families than just getting a paternity test.
The point is to make peace-of-mind testing illegal.
Which, to me, would make comfortable relationships an unacceptable risk.
That's the point. If I can't have peace of mind, I would choose to not accept the child as mine, which would sure as shit disrupt any relationship I'm in.
It's only disruptive if the woman was a cheating whore.
Sadly, not true.
Because of this law, you are incapable of peaceably getting a paternity test together. The only way to get a test seems to be, break up, file for child support, refuse to pay unless parentage is proven.
You can't stay with her because if you do, you're the acting father to an unproven child, and I don't see why the court would order a paternity test to a happy couple.
The logical consequence to this law should be most men immediately ending the relationship when they find out she's pregnant, until a court orders a test.
But nobody prevents you from getting a lawyer and ask court to order a test. The judge should allow it, for the simple reason that if you don't get it, you'd leave anyway and the court will be ceased for a child support case, which will certainly order a test.
Lawyers cost money, don't they?
So yes, something does prevent you.
If you would pay for the test, you can pay for a lawyer who wouldn't charge that much for such a simple task (asking a judge to order a test).
How much do you value your "peace-of-mind" anyway?
You've just reminded me of a funny line from one of my favourite TV shows. It's at 3:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeuX4KGNAcg
Haha that was pretty funny, I liked the boiler part lol
Probably one of the funniest TV shows ever, I reckon. I can't stand Sophie, though. Notice how there were not 2, but 3 potential fathers.
Thank God for paternity tests. 30 years ago you would have been paying for this child for 18 years. True story after my wife delivered our child I snuck out to the drug store and picked up an at home paternity test. I swabbed my and my kids mouth while my wife was asleep and put it in the mail that day. 3 days later I had total piece of mind. I was relatively certain that she was my daughter but honestly this is the first time in human history that men can now know for certain and there is nothing wrong with that at all!
Plot Twist: All home paternity tests are made and sold by governmental social services and all results are "you are the father".
Could make a blockbuster thriller movie with just this simple premise. How fucking terrifying.
Sounds intriguing but I'm not that big of a fan of horror movies.
When a government is that far gone, it doesn't resort to those lengths of deception. It just does what France has done: make paternity tests illegal.
France has all the left wing, feminist bases covered:
paternity tests are illegal without a court order, and rarely issued to get a man out of obligations to a woman
"preserving the peace" within French families is more important than justice for a man
"fatherhood is determined by society, rather than biology"
The maximum penalty for carrying out secret paternity testing is one year in prison and a €15,000 fine
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_testing#France
Still worth it compared to raising someone else's demon spawn (18 years to life and hundreds of thousands).
I don't know. I can see the court ruling that since the paternity test was illegally done, it's inadmissible as evidence. Therefore, you are still the father.
May still be cheaper than 18 years of child support...
Haha, and what makes you think the "father" would get off child support so easily ... ?
True but you could always expatriate and get the hell out of the crappy country and go to a jurisdiction with more sane family law. Hell some places in the US would likely be better off than France.
To be entirely fair, if I remember correctly, this is a holdover from an old Roman law that states that the community determines fatherhood, so this isn't an example of France being left wing or feminist. Unless you want to argue that the Romans were left wing of course
Lets not forget the impacts of the French Revolution, the Committee of Public Safety, the Paris Commune, and other Orwellion shit they had going on.
Plot Twist 2: The dude sent in DNA samples from the baby and the family dog.
That's why there are independent chain of custody options.
I did this too. Kid was mine and I felt like you did....relieved
I know my kid is mine. She has the same ear shape as I do along with my family's hairline. Plus 2 redheads making a redhead. No need for a test.
Which makes it equally infuriating how vehemently women are against it. They don't even bother to veil it under women's rights, it is so obviously solipsism and hypergamy.
Wait, I'm confused. Why did you feel the need to do this? Did you have some suspicion that your wife was cheating on you?
Doesn't matter what suspicions i did or did not have. No one is perfect and im not going to live under some illusion that my wife would never cheat on me. I just feel like when it comes to something as huge as raising a child married or not i wanted 100% piece of mind that it was actually my child. Is that wrong even though i am happily married?
It's not wrong, it's just a little odd, especially since you and your wife were/are happily married.
Does your wife know this happened? I'm not sure how I'd feel if my husband did this to my when I have my child, but I think I'd be a little hurt he didn't have that trust in me.
She knows and was hurt but she got over it. Thing is its easy for you because you know its definitely your baby. Its naive to think that just because i trust her means that something could never have happened. Lets face it we have all known or heard of some poor guy who trusts his wife/girlfriend unequivocally and she is cheating on him with different men.
Hypothetical baby! Not a mother yet.
Following your logic, would it then be okay to monitor your wife's location through her cellphone? I'm not trying to be accusatory, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. Yes, there are men/women who are unfortunately cheated on, but I have faith in my partner.
Not the first time I've seen that. Fucking delusional bitches.
She really is kind of delusional, if she is proven wrong she will still insist she's right.
She accused a guy of cheating a paternity test. Let's all let that sink in for a minute.
Odds are she knew it wasn't yours. But the female hamster is so self-deluding that that didn't matter. In a moment of pure solipsism, she manages to convince herself it's yours. She wasn't delusional when she accused you- it was true for me in that moment, she'll reason. Because she deserves a guy like you. It can't be the other dude she fucked around with because, while, yes, he did give her the tingles, she knows he gives lots of girls the tingles. He would never commit to her. So obviously he can't be the dad. After all, that wouldn't be faaaaaaaair.
Believing a man cheated a paternity test entails believing a dude held another bro's jizz in his pocket while the paternity clinic had him fill out paperwork, poured out said bro's man juice into the little plastic cup they gave him to collect the sample, and then tried to pass off the results as reflecting his own DNA. To know that some guy isn't the dad and yet feel perfectly confident accusing him of this requires an unawareness unseen by even abstract objects.
This is absolutely a thought process that would only happen in the female mind.
Umm, they do not use "jizz" to determine paternity. I'm not sure what fantasy land you live in. A cheek swab is commonly used, or more infrequently, a blood sample is taken to confirm or deny paternity.
The real delusion here is that in order to manipulate the results the testing lab itself would have to be in on the deception as they have chain of custody procedures to ensure that the samples tested are from the proper donors.
LMAO at adamryanx if he ever tries to cheat the system by showing up to the lab with a pocket full of some other dude's trouser gravy.
"Yeah, I bought all I could from this bank...I got the rest from this guy named Ralph in an alley--stupid asshole didn't even charge me, he just told me to close my eyes and suck it out of a hose!"
screaming at that trouser gravy crack lol
Lab doesn't need to be in on it. You're thinking too logically about a female allegation here. Also, they don't use jizz to determine paternity? Actually, they do if you give a semen sample instead of blood or saliva. Paternity testing methods are hardly universally standard.
Chain of custody procedures don't include watching somebody ejaculate into a specimen cup. Take care.
So you are saying that your little jizz scenario was what you assume was in the mind of the woman in OP's field report. Based on what?
No, they don't use semen in paternity tests because it is a DNA test and there are much easier methods of collecting DNA. Also, who in their right mind would find it more comfortable and convenient to fap into a cup in a testing facility than to have a nurse rub a Q-Tip around their mouth?
Let's not be ridiculous here.
And this is why emotional reasoning beats logical reasoning for women.
She persuades a guy to give her money to raise "his" child. If she was logical, she'd get nothing. If he's decent and thinks "yeah, might be mine" (before the days of pat. testing) she might well have gotten away with it.
Being logical leaves her worse off.
...jizz? Bro, its a cheek swab or a blood test. Unless he paid off the nurse, he couldn't have done anything shady...but jizz does not enter into the story lol
Not inconceivable. Nurses don't make that much, I bet if you had $10k in cash for the nurse to look the other way while you "Swabbed your own cheek" [ swapped the swab for one your mate used earlier] you would pull it off.
$10k is a lot less than 18 years of child support.
Well, in the beginning there was jizz
http://www.ptclabs.com/unusual
Paternity testing collection procedures aren't universally standard.
This link that mentions semen (a shady internet paternity testing company BTW) is clearly doing so to preemptively answer questions from scheming women who regularly ask if they can bring in a used condom to nail down the father. Most likely without his consent.
This in no way validates what you originally implied, which is that the primary paternity testing method is via a semen sample.
Is it really delusion? Or a desperate last ditch effort to inspire a guilt trip or appear so pathetic you'll feel bad for her/her child, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"
"WHAT KIND OF DECENT HUMAN BEING WOULDN'T WANT TO PROTECT A CHILD!"
it's in my opinion just the really shitty side of girl game.
I carry other dudes jizz all the time....happens every day
"It's not mine, officer, I'm just holding it for a friend."
http://illimitablemen.com/2014/03/09/how-women-argue/
Cheating is certainly in her repertoire, no wonder that's where her mind went.
Like when they say you're lying about your vasectomy with all the medical paperwork for it in front of them.
$10 says she knows exactly who the father is, and when she realized she was pregnant...looked for the first dude with money to stick with the bill.
Abominable behavior, and somehow...socially acceptable.
This. Chick's know who the father is. It's there own body for crying out loud. You can even track back to within a couple of days of conception. The female body has a very specific timetable and if it alters much you will have problems.
It's not abominable behaviour. It's female behaviour. You're making the mistake of scrutinizing a female's actions through the lens of male ethics.
Remember this basic rule of survival: organisms choose the path that gains them the greatest reward for the least amount of effort.
Think back to a time before civilizations existed in any meaningful sense, when we operated in small packs. Males are the dominant human players in the game of survival because they're built to improvise, outmanoeuvre, and outlast competitors. We're specialised to interact with the world.
Given that nature favours those who are "successfully lazy", women gradually specialized not for interacting with the world, but for interacting with men. Why go to all the trouble of improvising, fighting, and enduring themselves when they can simply consume our excesses, providing breeding privileges as repayment. Maybe a man was cuckolded now and then, but it worked well enough to move the species along as a whole.
In this sense, men and women developed a symbiotic/commensal relationship with one another. Sexual dimorphism is an emergent property of nature's tendency to reward the successfully lazy.
The problem now is that modern laws are turning women from symbiotes to parasites, because they aren't legally obligated to offer us anything in return for robbing us blind. And in fact, the state oftentimes robs us on their behalf.
Quick ninja edit: This is why at the Red Pill we say things like "don't take women seriously" and "control her for her own good". Because left to their own devices, women often aren't conscious enough to understand that their base motives and actions are harmful to the very civilization that upholds their sexual agenda. Left unchecked, a civilization that favours the female sexual imperative over the male one will eventually eat itself alive.
What is abominable is that there is such a thing as child support and betas to enforce that system.
In the past a woman had to do her best to make sure the man stayed, and if he left her nobody would care. Child support puts all power in the hands of the woman as she can behave in any unacceptable way and still have guaranteed money from the man. This is what collapses civilizations.
Aaaand teaches the children she raises that everything she is doing is ok. Rinse and repeat.
And our society is paying the consequences for this. Then everyone wonders why the divorce rate is so high and how come there are so many single parent families around?
Eh, without child support laws there would be a lot more fatherless children than there currently are. It's definitely a conscious decision I make when I sleep with a woman that I don't want to produce a child. I do think the law should hold women more accountable for how the money is being proportioned as well as account for her household income in determining the non-custodial fathers contribution, but honestly child support does serve to keep most men honest and conscious of the cost of producing children and I believe that's good for society in a general sense.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Without child support laws there would be a lot less divorces, since women wouldn't be able to branch swing so easily.
Males do support their families, women not wanting anything to do with family is the problem.
When marriage 1.0 was in effect, when the child of a marriage was of his father and not of his mother, there were almost zero fatherless children.
There's no such thing as "male ethic". Ethic is universal, it doesn't change for anybody.
Giving women a free moral pass (a moral PUSSY pass) only because they have an hole between the legs is exactly what lead to that rotten society.
Women can and should be held accountable for their actions. No excuses. It has been done in the past, and it worked great.
The real reson women in general don't follow other rules outside of "me, me, me" it's exactly because, since childhood, they're treated as little princesses and allowed to bahave like entitled bitches.
You can't grow up believing in moral codes if they never applied to you.
Biology is only partly responsible, since trough the centuries women have risked and suffered less for the consequences of their actions, hence not selecting good behaviour as a succesful trait.
While at the same time, bad behaving men were hanged in public places or directly stabbed to death were they were.
Eh. Ethics are subjective, not objective.
Puritan ethics compared to hedonistic ethics.
I've always figured that ethics are universal (apply to everyone regardless of race or culture or any other factor) while morals may change based on the beliefs of the group's involved.
If ethics truly were universal, then (ignoring the differences between jurisdictions for now) men and women would receive the same sentences for crimes like:
For men, those punishments are (typically):
For women, those punishments are (typically):
...Platonist ethics, Aristotelian ethics, communitarian ethics, liberal ethics, utilitarian ethics, deontological ethics...
Those things are all fine and dandy if we choose to accept our genetics as the final decider of the things we do.
Alternatively, we have a long history of ethics in western society that gives us a choice to opt out of the shit behavior that our urges push us towards. Just because something is easy and offers a reward does not mean it is what we ought to do. For instance, relying on child support is a shitty way to live your life compared to the autonomy provided by making your own living while enlisting the help of other family members to help you out while you work. She would have more money, more freedom, and more self respect, while strengthening her bonds with her blood family.
Financial fraud should be taken seriously, and that is what she tried to pull. If she were fined or imprisoned, that would make things worse, but it should be known that she has acted like a piece of shit, and it should not be excused.
Finally, this deficit in character is not an exclusively female problem, it is a cultural problem. We are not doing a good job in enforcing the necessity of good character in our society, and are surprised when garbage humans start taking shits in our affairs. They do not get a pass because of gender, and I will not sit back and shrug while making excuses for them.
It's not a problem of enforcement. Ethical behavior towards individuals you meet on a daily basis is taken care of by innate tribal-style human empathy. However, ethical behavior on the scale of civilization is mediated by religion. As much as the idea of a personal God and savior is bullshit, the simple fact is that morality is declining proportionately to religiosity. The carrot of Heaven and the stick of Hell work, but more importantly, Christian religion is probably the best inter-generational morality transmission system ever devised.
What I'd like to know is how our government went from this "male patriarchy" the feminists love to bitch about to a government that would rather give a woman than a man the benefit of the doubt. If we used to be this male-dominated titan of a government, where did it change that this thread became a relevant problem for a lot of divorced men?
The truth is, the government was never occupied by majority sexists. The plight of women has always been given more consideration than the plight of men.
On a biological level, we understand that women are less physically able to provide for themselves, so we make it the responsibility of the working collective (mostly men) to ensure their safety and prosperity (via tax funded government programs).
Eventually, certain women figured out that the best way to continue squeezing "free" benefits out of the state was to continue whining. These women framed their protests first as a fight for fairness, then as reparations for past (supposed) sexism, and now as a way to re-dress ongoing anti-female sentiments (again supposed).
And our society keeps on giving, because to the Blue Pill indoctrinated majority, it seems like less hassle to just give them what they're clamouring for - and because women now comprise a large majority of voters.
Do you think this will lead to further bullshit or do you think society will eventually realize their bullshit?
I think plenty of people realize what's going on. But most of the people working in politics have been in the game long enough to know that there's nothing to gain by fighting the trend.
So everyone is just lining up to get their cut before it's all gone. By the time the system collapses, the powerful will have their exit strategies, and the rest of us will be left picking up the pieces.
A key plan of any forward-thinking Red Pill man should be how to survive the collapse of his own nation.
just because her biological instinct pushes her to do something doesn't excuse that it's piece-of-shit abominable behavior.
I have the biological instinct to physically injure or kill people who piss me off. But I don't, because I'm not a weak immoral piece of shit, and I have the basic prescience to control my urges. Children shit their pants until they learn better.
Understanding behavior and why it exists doesn't excuse it. We aren't animals. We have agency. Women included
Where do you live that this is socially acceptable?
'merica
And by socially acceptable I of course mean bitches and white knights are ok with it.
Good, I thought you meant everyone thought it was ok.
I bet that 90% of people you asked would support the system of child support.
I support the idea of it but not the implementation...
In our society where men and women are supposed to be 'equal' why are we not expecting the woman to provide proof she is contributing equally to the child either in terms of time or money. Likewise, child support should be put on a card that can be audited and what was bought tracked because we know everything with a card is being tracked. If she's using the child's 'child support' money to get her nails done then perhaps she doesn't need that much child support to begin with.
Her attempt to enslave you failed.
Congratulations to OP for escaping.
Indeed, really child support seems to be more like indentured servitude rather than you know, helping the child have a good childhood.
Jerry: Archdemonic, you are not the father. *op jumps up down with joy and does a little jig. * irresponsible, lying, cc rider, starts crying and begs OP to take care of her and the child. Crowd chants: jerry jerry jerry jerry jerry jerry jerry!
I'm happy for you OP. And this is the first I'm not the father post I've seen on TRP.
The Maury show is top notch cable trash and i love it
Even after 6 appearances, they still never find the father.
Is someone up to 6 appearances? Wouldn't surprise me though I think I seen someone with 3 appearances.
I don't watch it anymore. I don't know about 6 appearances, but I've seen a few times where there were 2 or 3 guys at once, and none of them were the father.
I'm glad that I am indeed not the father, it's good to know I'm absolved of child support.
Relevant
I know it's cliche as fuck, but for good reason. Document EVERYTHING.
Indeed, the paternity test results are on file, if she tries something it will be difficult to make me the father.
This kind of anecdote really sheds light on the truth behind the "dead-beat dad" myth.
Yeah, there are some lousy guys out there who will fuck and run regardless of the woman in question. But I seriously doubt many men would leave a woman to fend for herself if she had at least a handful of redeeming qualities that made her decent company.
Whether it's a boy or a girl, that kid is fucked. But I hope for the kid's sake that it's a girl. For a boy, being raised like a mother like that is at best life of pain and thankless toil and at worst a death-sentence.
Really, I don't think I'm a dead beat dad, I just don't want to raise any child that is not of my progeny. Nor do I want to pay child support, she didn't even want me to help take care of the child, her exact words were, "Pay child support."
If I had not insisted on a paternity test, good grief I have a feeling she would have used the money for one of those QVC conveniences she so enjoys.
I feel a bit sorry for the child, I have a feeling it's going to be rough for them. I do not know their mother as a good mother, hopefully she snaps up to the task.
Behold the modern man, a vending machine which dispenses attention and money.
It's good that you were vigilant and adamant about getting that test upfront. Legal precedent shows that once you make that first payment, you can get locked in for the next 18 years even if the real father is confirmed later.
Odds are she won't without a man like you to whip her into shape. The essential Red Pill question is, "What's in it for you?"
A vending machine where everything is really cheap.
fucking bitch. Im not a woman-hater by any means, but fuck her. She tried to commit fraud and take you for all you're worth
PLEASE don't feel the least bit sorry for this woman. And that child is not your concern at all. Live your life guilt free. I can promise you you dodged a bullet and she'd feel no guilt in taking your hard earned money. Screw them.
You have to be a dad first.
ATM Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! is more like it...
I understand the sentiment, but you had nothing to do with that. Whatever the consequences are for the child, they're on her and the (probably unknown) sperm donor. It's not your responsibilty to care for a child you had nothing to do with, especially since the mother was trying to use you and the child as an ATM.
If its a girl she will just be another slut like her mom, not exactly better off imo.
A girl would get to enjoy a certain fifteen to twenty years of her life, at least.
I recently got into it on 2x for fun and the topic was who's more important, the child(ren) or the man? I tried to rephrase the argument to, what's more important, punishment for the woman, or double punishment for the man? Every opponent tried to conflate the argument to "the children come before the man" but this was in the argument centered specifically around when a man finds out after 8 years that a child is not his. There are women out there still who say the man should be responsible and the woman should have no consequences. No one in that conversation said the kid deserved it, but life sucks, why does it have to suck even more for the man who's been tricked?
That's a good point, there's actually a lot of cases of women using child support for personal things.
I've heard the stories and I don't want to become another one of those stories. Knowing her, she's not going to be any better at managing child support money than she is with her rent money.
In other words the other guy is a complete loser and prob on drugs. Better get yourself tested for stds
You fucked up in the beginning by allowing her get comfortable using you for money before she was pregnant.
You gotta set yourself up to win. If you play this game with women where you pay for them, its always gonna end in a similar way for you.
Don't do things that establish a precedent of money going from you to them.
Well done. Even if you were sure you were the father, the thing to do is to demand a paternity test.
From your post though - "she liked to spend my money" - you played a role in spawning this entitled behavior. She was used to enjoying your finances so in her mind, it was something she could rely upon getting again.
I've had a few ONSs which didn't happen. Simply because the girl got weird or annoyed about me insisting on a condom.
One even swore blind that she was on the pill. I said, "Show me the packet, what ones are you on". Amazingly she claimed she'd run out that day and would get more tomorrow... but we were quite safe.
Gents, it's a jungle out there. Get your own condoms and fucking use them.
Just a slight onwards to that story, one girl I used to work with one day said casually, "I don't always remember to take my pill, lol..."
None of them do. Never, ever trust a woman who says she's on the pill.
My daughter was born because my girlfriend told me she couldn't get pregnant. Had a whole story about medical issues, how the doctor said she would never be able to have a child, even cried about it and expressed worry I would break up with her.
I didn't care because I wasn't trying to have a kid. So we didn't use condoms and she got pregnant right away. The OB/GYN told her she was one of the most fertile women he'd ever seen while I was standing right there. Should have dumped the bitch but I got married and stuck it out for 15 miserable years. Totally my fault, I should have know better but I was 18 and thought I was in love.
It's a bit scary to think that some are so casual about taking the pill. It's not a kid's game, it actually has serious consequences.
It is sad that this is so far down.
So you had a paternity test prior to the child being born?
Edit: Holy fuck. "prenatal paternity test". I had no idea.
More specifically the NIPP test which just needs the mother's blood. The older paternity testing needed a sample of amniotic fluid which carries some risk of miscarriage. The new test is awesome.
They can test about 3-4 months in, when they also test for genetic abnormalities. But you need to ask specifically for the test, it will not be done automatically.
wow great news. just curious since this was brought up--how is the amount of child support calculated when two people are not married?
A friend is dealing with child support here in australia. It's calculated on his earnings. He's paying something like 17000 a year to this cunt and he can't even see his kid. Can't fight it either because he earns too much for legal aide but after child support and cost of living he can't afford a lawyer.
Bitch has already got another kid to another guy, within a year of her second daughter to my friend dying. She's a nutter.
On a happier note I'm getting a vasectomy
thanks. for people in california, I found out "In California, child support is based on a complex calculation that takes into consideration the parents' incomes, how much time each parent spends with the child, and any tax deductions that are available to either parent."
Yes, the complex calculation is not performed manually.
Both sides use a calculator which is modeled after Dissomaster, which is what is used by the court before it rules on support.
In Australia - generally speaking - it's 18% of the pre-tax earnings for 1 child, then bumps up to 35%. But you still pay tax on the full amount.
Remembering that Australia is pretty socialist (by comparison to the USA), we pay more tax.
So, 2 kids, above average income of 100k, 35k to ex-wife, 40k to tax man and all of a sudden you have 25k to pay for everything. And at ~15k for rent/mortgage, there's fuck all left.
Now, look at it from her point of view. If she has 4 kids to 2 different 100k dads, her PASSIVE income, TAX FREE is 70k.
But she pays no or fuck all tax (single mum) and gets all manner of benefits (subsidised child care, power, phone, rates, possibly even a free house depending on how "victimised" she can be or if she made one husband leave the premises during the break-up)
AND THIS IS ALL INDEPENDENT OF ANY BETA BUX!!! This is all in addition to her income and all other factors.
I saw this first hand with a work"mate"
Equality for everyone! Fairness for all! Best interests of the child!!!
australian tax rates:
$100000-(0.35*$100000)-($17547+0.37*($100,000-$80,000))=$40,053
Child support is not alimony – they are distinct. You cannot sign away child support rights in a pre-nup, for instance. Being married has nothing to do with child support – except that being married means you're automatically considered the father for any legal matter, whether you're the biological father or not – you gotta get lawyers involved if you've been cuckolded. Child support is often just a fixed percentage of the income, calculated at the time the child support order was issued (the specifics vary by locale).
Laws vary by state and country. In my state, marriage status (single/separated/divorced) does not change the formula. The three primary factors are:
The base formula itself is very simple, but there are pages and pages of special rules: If one/both parents are disabled, business owners, active duty military, out-of-state residents, if the child has special needs, etc.
My state is at least sensible in that there is a per child cap. An upper limit on support per child. That saved my ass. My ex has no documented income. I'd be paying more than double without that cap.
I've heard horror stories from guys in other states. And not just rich dudes getting reamed. We all hear the stories of celebrities owing millions to some gold digger. You expect that. But poor guys can get hit even harder. There was a young enlisted guy on here few months back, something like 70% of his pay went straight to C/S.
Yeah the percentage of custody thing only encourages women to give their ex husbands as little time with their own children as possible. As they get more money this way.
And this is why we need to abandon child support. It is literally the only reason that Shaniquas from the ghetto get kids.
Shaniqua gets welfare not child support.
She gets both actually - don't kid yourself.
Several black dudes I know are out there busting their ass to trying to have a normal life despite supporting a greedy, selfish, lying, ungrateful baby mama.
They shouldn't have misjudged that last pump. It's not all on the woman.
Thats why your pullout game gotta be on point... Every time I see one of those not your baby clips on Jerry Springer, I think they are think I knew my pull out game was on point.
Or just get a vasectomy. And, avoid Maury too.
She is still looking for that beta bucks CS.
Really I think the child support system has a lot of corruption behind it from women, I wouldn't put it past her to try and get money from me this way.
But I thought black kids never have fathers?
I'll take myself to r/imgoingtohellforthis now.
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Well, sure we could waste our resources providing for fatherless children, but why should we?
It's essentially a cuckold situation. Wasting precious resources that could be better spent on our own children or just for our own satisfaction.
You're right that if everyone helped raise everyones kids the world would be a better place, but thats not gonna happen. What you are suggesting is that we take one "for the team" and cuckold ourselves while everyone else goes about living their normal life.
Fuck that. Im here to get mine
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Behavior and IQ is determined genetically. Those who haven't "made it" in society never will.
Does nurture not factor in? All my siblings, six of them, are on welfare or drugs. I'm on track to graduate with honors. We were raised in the same environment. What do?
No way. The difference in mind, life and soul between adult men is much larger than 1% and 1% is much more than the genetical difference between men. Chimps are 1% away from us.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp0vbf_hjernevask-brainwashing-english-part-2-the-parental-effect_news
If you believe this crap, I assume your parents were as nearsighted and retarded as you .
Please use google or community college.
Epigenetics. Can't link due to subs policies.
That's not the reason, the reason is they don't have the proper education about safe sex. I thought everyone here would be above racism.
Everyone here is logical to the point of fault. Admitting that statistical differences between races exist is no less logical than admitting that women have statistically different behaviors than men.
Abandoning child support is not logical. People in poverty do not behave rationally like you or I, and would continue to have many kids even without child support or welfare. The poorest countries and areas of the world with the least amount of social services tend to have mothers giving birth to 7 or more children.
Nobody on reddit is above racism. It's obviously a class issue rather than a race issue but calling out the black 'ghetto' girls are great buzzwords. The poor and stupid game the system not poor black people. Wake up you morons
The truly racist argument is the statement that they're too stupid to use birth control...
People do not behave rationally in poverty. When someone is hungry or feels unsafe they cannot be held to the same standard to use higher level thinking parts of their brains as people who feel safe, and have all their physiological needs met. Shaniqua, like people in poverty all over the world (think about the massive families in Ethiopia even with poverty), would still have many kids, with, or without child support.
"Father" in her mind apparently means "Deep Pockets". Good thing you weren't married since child support is often demanded of non-fathers in divorces; I've had friends hosed this way.
The accusation of "cheating" was the first key. It was essentially responding to an issue that hadn't been on the table.
What? What? What? So... wait... what?
You're saying under said legislature your wife can cheat on you unprotected and if you do a paternity test and file a divorce for that reason you... will have to pay because she now has a child?
Whoever enabled this law as well as those who enforce it should encounter high velocity bricks if you ask me.
Yep, though it will vary depending on state. The usual justification is something like "to provide financial support for the child while they grow up" - roughly the "deep pockets" argument.
Google around if you want to find others.
Wow. And women say men are childish. I've seen this happen a few times, a woman losing her shit because she's been proven wrong/caught lying, and there's nothing else for her to do and no way to save face.
So even though you have absolutely no legal or moral responsibility to this woman and her brat, she's still trying to make it your problem? Un-fucking-believable.
I've only ever met one woman who didn't absolutely lose her shit when things didn't go her way.
I stopped seeing her because she was so... thematic even compared to other women she liked to take little things and blow them way out of proportions.
And women like that wonder why they can't keep a man. Who wants to deal with that kind of shit? I've been there.
If she wasn't prepared to care for children she should have used birth control. So should you in fact if you don't want to risk it.
In any event, yes it is not yours so it is not your concern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeCDy_9hxZY
I wonder who provided the Closed Captioning for this episode.
Pretty much sum it up to, "EEEEEUUUUGGH IT'S NOT RIGHT"
Good for you, although I wouldn't have been as nice as you seem to have been.
As a side point, in business and life it's not good to start sentences with "Honestly," It seems to be a habit of yours
I mostly do it when I type more than when I'm talking.
I've always tried to be reasonable with her, it seems to be the only way I can reason with her at all. Otherwise I won't get through to her at all.
Beautiful.
You must send this to rub some salt into the wound.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/349/1728animated_gif_not_the_father.gif
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That does seem like a running theme, that's why I went back to the carousel.
This could have all been avoided if you used the male birth control called Deca.
Nandrolone, popularly known as Deca, is a classified as a progestin. Deca derives many of its benefits from its progestenic nature: including, but not limited to, increase IM fat storage and increased fluid retention in the joints from glucocorticoid(GC) stimulation.
Deca is the most widely used form of prescription contraception in the first world. Deca is superior to testosterone as a form of birth control because its progestenic effects which result in rapid onset of azoospermia.
Unfortunately deca has side effects: it causes a massive increase in muscle mass. :(
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I usually use a condom, I've heard of other male contraceptives but I've also heard it can be ineffective and mostly experimental. I will look into this option.
Ummm, I'm not sure if you're serious or not... Progestin works as a contraceptive in women by suppressing/preventing ovulation. (tricks the body into thinking it's already pregnant).
It does absolutely nothing to prevent male fertility.
If you go to your doctor asking to be prescribed a drug that mimics a steroid that reduces your estrogen levels, you'll be laughed out of the doctor's office. Progestin in large doses is given to (male) sexual offenders because it'll kill your sexual urges. Depo Provera is a similar drug, and has been used by 9 different states to chemically castrate child molesters.
Like I said, you could go to your doctor and ask about it, but you'll be laughed out of the office.
edit: I was wrong about it doing nothing about male fertility.
Steroids hault sperm production. Also deca does not reduce estrogen levels. Your compleatly wrong. No American doctor will ever perscribe deca though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12801577
You're right, they won't prescribe it. You'd be risking possibly permanent infertility AND possibly reducing your natural sex hormones (testosterone) production permanently...
When you could just as easily get a vasectomy if you don't want kids. Which is reversible.
Plenty of bodybuilders have kids they just blast clomid and HCG
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She still can't put him on the hook without his acknowledging paternity of the child, either by signing the birth certificate or an Acknowledgement of Paternity form.
http://benswann.com/state-orders-man-to-pay-30k-in-child-support-or-face-jail-despite-proof-he-is-not-father/
That's not a consequence of the law. That case is just straight-up fraud.
The mother can put whatever she wants on the birth certificate. Depends on the state, but these days what you'll get as the supposed father is a court order for a DNA test.
There are certainly ways you can get stuck paying for someone else's kid. Where I live in California if your wife gets pregnant the kid is yours. End of story. The kid can also be declared yours if you act as that kid's father for any length of time.
Same in my state. In fact I think a lot of states have implied paternity laws for married couples these days.
Just another reason to never marry.
She can't just claim the guy is his father without his consent. Otherwise you would have delusional women putting the name of the father famous people, etc. From NY's laws:
When a child is born to a married woman, the law assumes that her husband is the child's father. However, when a couple is not married, the biological father is not considered the legal father until paternity is legally established. Establishing paternity gives certain legal rights to the child. It also gives certain legal rights and responsibilities to the father. There are two ways to establish legal paternity: one requires the filing of a petition and the entry of a court order (usually done in Family Court), the other requires a written acknowledgment signed by each of the parents and recorded with the child's birth certificate. Until 1997, the father of an out of wedlock child could agree to have his name listed on the child's birth certificate without signing this formal acknowledgment; therefore you can not assume that paternity has been legally established based solely on the appearance of a child's birth certificate. However, the law provides that an unwed father's name cannot be listed on the birth certificate without his consent (PHL§4135, Form DOH-2739).
In Brazil women can just say a name and the dude becomes the father. He then needs to challenge it if he wants to set the record straight, when she asks for child support.
I am aware she may attempt that, I have kept the paternity test results filed and safe, if she tries to make me pay child support I can dispute it very well. My lawyer has also been notified of these transpiration of events.
The court would order a DNA test if you contested anyway.
Hopefully we won't need a court, if she tries and put my name on the birth certificate there's going to be a lot of issues from my side of things.
Laws vary by state and country. There is some crazy shit on the books. Don't expect common sense from the law.
OP: Talk to a custody lawyer. Initial consults are usually free, and your case is so simple that may be all you need. Cover your ass!
Depends on the state. In most state now, she points the finger, you do a paternity test, if your not the daddy, your off the hook with the state picking up the price of the test. if its yours, you pay and get billed for child support for the next two decades.
7 days? Where is this? Washington State is 2 years.
https://www.courts.wa.gov/forms/?fa=forms.contribute&formID=34
Congratulations, you should have been in Maury for free money and hotel expenses though.
In any case, I am glad to see you averted a potential disaster.
Congrats and I mean it. I dodged a similar bullet 3 years ago with my ex who also has BPD. I'm very much single these days and loving life.
Heartless manipulative bitch; I really feel sorry for that child, especially in a world where she's cheered on for being the single most cause of the child's failure (single motherhood = societal degeneration).
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Don't worry, my lawyer has been consulted and if she tries something, it will be difficult.
What does it mean to "put down Someone as the father" , I'm not english speaker so I don't understand, is she saying that any woman can put any man name as the father? In an official paper without his presence? You as a men should ask for a law that forbids any parent affiliation without your presence. Like to to do that they need your signature and finger print or else is not official, right? Because, if not anyone can say Bill Gates is the father... right? How she did that?
I hope you didn't let her list you on the Birth Certificate or else you might not be out of the woods yet. Good job not falling for the simp-bait, keep it up.
You are right, technically is no different from any stranger's child
But I couldn't stop feeling some degree of sadness for the kid. It's a fucked up scenario for the kid... Having a shitty mother and an invisible dad
Well, hopefully she'll find the real father. I don't think she'll make a good single mother. Really, from how I know her she doesn't like added responsibility.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt2i0ts-uck
After some deep consideration all I can think of is: Hell, fuck yah! Well done on the dodge. Go enjoy the rest of your life.
What the hell is your problem? She let you have sex with her and now you should give her money because she is a tender, weak female. It is your responsibility to give her money because that child could be yours. This is what all women are like and you should know that.
haha. I love when they to to pull this shit. Happened once. Loved every minute of it when I was off the hook.
Honestly the whole institution of child support assumes that a woman can't raise or support a child without some form of outside support. It assumes that the male should be made responsible and ultimately punished.
I fucking love these stories.
at least these lyrics won't apply to you
"She got one of yo kids got you for 18 years I know somebody paying child support for one of his kids His baby momma's car and crib is bigger than his You will see him on TV Any Given Sunday Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai She was spose to buy ya shorty TYCO with ya money She went to the doctor got lypo with ya money She walking around looking like Micheal with ya money"
I had a friend who slept with a woman, she got pregnant and she had the state compel him to give child support.
She isn't even shameful about it, she walks around in bloody jewelry she really could have bought with her average income. I think we both know where the extra income was.
Op, the only thing missing in that story would be a camera movie of her reaction to the results of the test.
To put on the tv some rainy days, and watch with a glass of wine to lift the mood.
She was very upset, believe me when things don't go her way she throws a tantrum. This time things really didn't go her way.
I read the title of this post like it was the professor from Futurama announcing it.
For some reason it seems to flow naturally.
Did you get it done on Jeremy Kyle?
That right there should have been the big tipoff that she's trying to put you on the hook for someone else's progeny. The more resistance you get to testing from an ex the less likely it is that you're actually the father.
She loves to get money, by that I mean she loves to spend it as well.
tight on cash ,not on pussy...
She's not even trying to hide her plan...
Good for you, I hope you learned your lesson about using condoms.
Remember if she tells you you don't need to use a condom, she tells that to EVERYONE.
Also use your own, don't accept that anything that is provided will work.
Did the timing make sense where perhaps you could have been the father?
Not really, but she insisted that I was the father.
So you always knew it was bullshit
Why do you think I insisted on a paternity test? I wanted there to be a record that I am not the father of her spawn.
I don't think you need persuasion. If you say "I'm not signing the birth certificate until you prove me as the father" that forces her to get a paternity test right?
Great job man. And as far as the child goes, you have NO reason to help out in any way, sucks for the kid, but then again, this happens so much every day. Can't solve the fucking world problems.
in honour of this momentous occasion OP :')
The reactions of the fathers on these shows are some of the best things about it.
Send her a pack of cloth diapers and a card saying "Best of luck."
"I know these hoes like a pimp scholar."
-Montana of 300
you should've went on Maury
http://i.imgur.com/UUDLpdM.jpg
Peace be with that child. Fuck man, paternity entrapment is terrifying. Related but not directly applicable PSA: use a condom AND pull out before you cum. I almost got baby daddied last weekend when the condom popped and I didn't notice till ~5 minutes after I came and finally pulled it out. I gave her way too much pot cookie the night before so she was still quite stoned in the morning and being stubborn, in retrospect I should have suggested she just keep sleeping in my bed after I got up and she wanted to keep sleeping. I had to break frame a little to get her to meet up the next day to make sure she took a Plan B pill. Bitches aren't even responsible enough to go to the pharmacy and prevent 18 years of parenthood--from the way she took the pill I believe she doesn't consciously want a kid right now, but damn it would have been easy to just dodge my calls for 72 hours. Congrats on your peace of mind bro. Guess I still gotta wait on mine for certain till after she bleeds, but be careful everyone.
The sad part is, you can't help her financially even if you wanted to, because you'd get stuck with "playing the role of the father". The law literally bans you from supporting fatherless children.
If you like, lend her the money for the operation, and have it blown out the airlock. Make sure her broke ass pays you back though.
You are doing her, and an unborn child a huge favor. That kid's life is going to suck because mommy is a piece of work. I don't know very much about this chick, but what I do know suggests that she shouldn't breed.
Or, let her use the kid to catch a beta to help raise both of them.
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I tried refuting this comment but every sentence has so much stupidity behind it. THIS is why I come to TRP, because an illogical and feely person like this has a voice in society that isn't immediately scoffed at and ridiculed. It is mind boggling.
I don't have any more moral responsibility to her child than I do to a stranger's child.
Not to mention the mother is better in bed than she is outside of it. By that, I mean she's draining to be around. I will detach myself from her situation, and whatever happens will happen.