Explain to me why you are opposed to this quote of mine that is on your front page

Aerobus · 2014-09-21T23:10:44+00:00

How come when a man is emotionally abused its his job to 'man up' and leave the relationship, but when it's a woman being abused, she isn't told to leave the relationship?

I have no idea what you're even arguing. Most people, RP or BP or whateverpill would tell him to leave his relationship. The fact that you put "man up" in scare quotes seems to suggest you think this is some kind of unfair burden placed on him, rather than well meaning advice given out of concern for him?

And most people would tell a woman the same thing, soo.

camgnostic · 2014-09-21T22:43:28+00:00

The shitty part of that quote isn't advocating someone leave an abusive relationship. That's a complicated issue (people stay in abusive relationships for a variety of reasons and the judgment that comes from strangers who don't know the details is often sexist and agency-denying), but not the obviously fucked up part of your quote. It's the second clause, where you straight up claim it is not your job to treat other people fairly, that has people mocking you. Most of us learned how to treat each other better than that in kindergarten. If you didn't, and you're proud of it, you're gonna get made fun of.

Aerobus · 2014-09-21T23:54:50+00:00

Clear difference here.

Your comment looks sounds like someone with a personality disorder who holds others responsible for their own abuse and behavior.

The other one is someone advising someone else to leave a bad situation.

LeaneGenova · 2014-09-21T22:51:14+00:00

With respect to the first clause, there is little wrong with that. Granted, it does ignore the cycle of abuse that can cause people (men and women) to stay in situations that are toxic. However, encouraging people to leave is not inherently problematic.

The issue is that arguing that it's not your responsibility to not abuse other people is an absurd position to take. Most people understand that emotionally manipulating or abusing other individuals is a negative behavior. So when someone goes so far against that to say that they don't have a responsibility to moderate their own actions, it becomes ridiculous. You pass the agency of your actions onto the person getting hurt, rather than accepting responsibility for your part. Essentially, we're referring to your actions, rather than the actions of the person you are dealing with. And your actions have gone from just being problematic into being abusive. And that's why I (I can't speak for TBP as a whole) have an issue with your statement.

Trorbes · 2014-09-22T13:28:04+00:00

If she is getting traumatized

English teachers would call this the "passive voice." I would call it blaming the victim. Where is this trauma coming from? Why is the 'object'being reframed as the 'subject'? It essentially says she, if anyone, is responsible for the trauma.

"He is tramatizing her," changes the meaning of the sentence a lot. It not just sources the origin of the trauma, but makes him responsible for it. Why wouldn't he be? Why shouldn't the abuser be held responsible for his abuse?

mc0079 · 2014-09-21T22:52:05+00:00

"How come when a man is emotionally abused its his job to 'man up' and leave the relationship, but when it's a woman being abused, she isn't told to leave the relationship?"

I don't think any sane person RP,BP or otherwise would tell someone to stay in an abusive relationship. Don't know where you're getting that from.

Tyrien · 2014-09-22T15:24:37+00:00

but when it's a woman being abused, she isn't told to leave the relationship?

She most certainly is told to leave the relationship.

Henipah · 2014-09-22T10:29:20+00:00

OP here. Swap the pronouns in that quote and I would have the same objection. It's not about men or women it's about saying the victims of psychological abuse are responsible for the continuation of that abuse. I consider that despicable, and I thought that should have been self evident.

Your example is absolutely not the same, not because it's a man but because they were talking to the victim. The only thing they can do is leave. That doesn't mean that until they leave the perpetrator of the abuse is in the clear.

If you've been abused by women or you're a woman in an abusive relationship then my advice would be to leave, because that's the only advice I can give. Much better yet, if you're the perpetrator in an abusive relationship: STOP ABUSING THEM, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TO BLAME.

GridReXX · 2014-09-22T18:46:53+00:00

How come when a man is emotionally abused its his job to 'man up' and leave the relationship, but when it's a woman being abused, she isn't told to leave the relationship?

I have literally never heard of the bolded part.

All advice ever espoused tells women to exit abusive relationships. It's not about "manning up." It's about recognizing your worth and exiting left.

Aerobus · 2014-09-22T06:35:46+00:00

Look up battered wife syndrome. It's amazing what some women will put up with before they feel the need to shoot their husband because they feel they can't escape.

Skratt · 2014-09-21T23:02:00+00:00

In to ask how you got that red text in your flair :o It won't let me make mine purple!

Those_Who_Remain · 2014-09-22T10:02:46+00:00

EDIT: I don't want to be an abuser. Given a choice, I'd rather not emotionally manipulate a woman than manipulate her. Forget morality, it's less effort for me. But my quote is honest. An abuser is not going to suddenly stop abusing his wife. Hence, it is her 'job' to leave the relationship since the abuser won't stop.

Except it isn't her 'job'. It may be her best option, but the responsibility is not on her. Abuse destroys confidence in many cases, which makes leaving such a toxic relationship significantly harder.

RareBlur · 2014-09-22T03:41:59+00:00

The only reason that the man was advised to leave and you might be advised to stop the behavior is because you each have different roles.

In your comment, you are taking the stance of the abuser so that would be advised to stop. In the other thread the guy is the one being abused so he is advised to leave.

There's no conspiracy, just access to different people in the different roles. Whomever is in the abusive relationship and recognizes the abuse first should be the one to take action. If you realize you are hurting someone, seek help from a professional. If you realize you are being abused then you should remove yourself from the abuse as soon as possible. Not everyone feels able to leave so sometimes the advice of strangers is enough to motivate them and to stop "hamstering" away the abuse (if I've used that term correctly).

We all practice some forms of manipulation in every relationship (SO's, Co-workers). It's up to you to recognize when you take it too far and you have inflicted pain and hurt. That woman the man describes clearly not someone anyone should be with.

Doldenberg · 2014-09-22T21:36:03+00:00

How come when a man is emotionally abused its his job to 'man up' and leave the relationship, but when it's a woman being abused, she isn't told to leave the relationship?

Have you ever seen an actual feminist use the term "man up"? Or even imply something similar?

EDIT 2: I can see why I'm having a disconnect with people on TBP. I'm advocating for women to not dress proactively at night, and you guys are advocating for rapists to not rape. The problem is, rapists don't care what you think and are going to rape anyways.

See guys, we're back at the stupid "Leaving your car unlocked in a bad neighborhood" analogy again. I find it far to complicated to address the whole point of how successful it is to tell women to take "anti-rape measures" compared to telling men about what is consent and what is not - but spoiler, evidently the second part is far more effective considering that the majority of rapes isn't stranger out of the bush rape (after he saw your miniskirt),

So, anyway, back to the point of what people find offensive about the miniskirt/open car. Because, you see, when you leave your car unlocked, you might have a serious problem with your insurance. But in court, when the guy who has stolen your car is convicted, no one will say "Oh, the car was totally unlocked, so we shouldn't punish the guy so hard."

Yet that is exactly how the miniskirt-excuse is used. She wore a miniskirt, so she asked for it, so we shouldn't punish the guy so hard.

So before we go any farther, can we at least agree that no matter what a woman does or does not, it means jack shit for how the guy who rapes her should be punished, as, you know, it is done for literally every other crime?
Because looking at the cases where this analogy is used, this thought already seems incredibly controversial.

PixelPurple · 2014-09-22T21:38:38+00:00

No one should ever stay in an emotionally manipulative or an abusive relationship, and no one should be an emotional manipulator or an abuser. Why would gender matter? I never heard anyone tell a female that she should stay in an abusive relationship and count on her SO to change...that would just be asinine.

VarsitySlutTeamCpt · 2014-09-23T15:46:50+00:00

Not going to lie though, I think the abuse that women have in relationships have been deemed the norm. Like we just make them out to be jokes, laugh, and realize how sad it really is. Simple tiny little thing like "you can't go out with your friends", "I don't want sex I'm too tired", "You need to buy this for me," and so forth...most men don't detect this because it creeps up on them and when they figure it out, it's too late.

babyguineapig · 2014-09-22T01:02:53+00:00

The female imperative has a very strong stake in shaming men for catering solely to their own natures. That's what you're experience, shaming

am_thro_way · 2014-09-21T23:55:24+00:00

I... don't disagree, really. I guess my view is different to most bluepillers because I don't really care about morality. Personally I do not see any benefit in potentially traumatising my partner, and so would prefer to avoid that if possible. But if you want to act like an asshole, then that's your prerogative, and it's up to your partner whether she puts up with it or not.

exit_sandman · 2014-09-22T05:43:03+00:00

"Traumatize" is pretty heavy, OP. There are plenty of fish in the sea, why would you want to "traumatize" a specific chick?

Title	Explain to me why you are opposed to this quote of mine that is on your front page
Author	Aerobus
Upvotes	8
Comments	104
Date	September 21, 2014 10:36 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2h2mxs/explain_to_me_why_you_are_opposed_to_this_quote/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/explain-to-me-why-you-are-opposed-to-this-quote-of.284802 https://theredarchive.com/post/284802