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[Meta] SJWs are reportedly working with admins to develop a stricter "no harassment" policy at Reddit. We should have an action plan in place for when TRP is banned

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WaynesCotting
February 3, 2015
1068 upvotes
TheRedPill

According to r/undelete a Reddit co-founder and other members of Reddit are working to develop a site-wide approach to address what they define as harassment and non-civil behavior. You don't have to be a genius to know that this includes anything they perceive as anti-women or remotely critical of feminism, liberalism, etc. A feminist power grab will obviously target groups like SRSSucks, MensRights, and TheRedPill. With nearly 100k members I believe the censure of this subreddit is approaching, either with its outright banning or forcing the mods to implement an admin-approved behavioural policy.

I can't link you directly since TRP already suffers under strict rules linking to other parts of the site (hint: we're already second class citizens), so if you want more background information go to r/undelete and r/SRSSucks to see posts about "DiscussTheOpenLetter"

The titles of the posts in question are:

  • What is up with r/discusstheopenletter? And why are admins bowing down to sjw demands regarding sitewise hate speech rules. (https://archive.today/raryF)

  • Is Reddit about to Digg™ its own grave? Leaked discussion from private sub-reddit showing that Reddit admins, including co-founder u/kn0thing, are meeting with, "experts and activists" and may be looking at limiting site freedoms against people or groups deemed offensive. (https://archive.today/hMusq)

Google Cache searches for r/DiscussTheOpenLetter show that they're referring to things like r/MakeUpAddiction and their recent "you'll be banned if you disagree with us, because that's harassment and body shaming" policies.

My point is that TRP will obviously be targeted, if not by this than by something else that comes along with the winds of politically correct intolerance. We should have an action plan.

  • Valuable posts here and the sidebar should be archived. I don't know if there are any efforts to do this.

  • An alternative Reddit should be used. I've seen people recommend the following safe-haven from SJWs: https://voat.co/. To date this is the best alternative I've seen, and the format of Reddit is perfect for the type of content we post.


Post Information
Title [Meta] SJWs are reportedly working with admins to develop a stricter "no harassment" policy at Reddit. We should have an action plan in place for when TRP is banned
Author WaynesCotting
Upvotes 1068
Comments 324
Date 03 February 2015 09:56 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/28728
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2uomrv/meta_sjws_are_reportedly_working_with_admins_to/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
the red pillsocial justice warriorfeministfeminism
Comments

[–]p3ndulum456 points457 points  (47 children) | Copy

Ha, "I feel harassed because I keep going there and reading their stuff."

Ban fire while you're at it because it hurts when I touch it.

[–][deleted] 393 points394 points  (14 children) | Copy

http://i.imgur.com/qJFr0qe.jpg

[–][deleted] 72 points73 points  (11 children) | Copy

The hip hop community knows whats up

[–]dennislang56 points57 points  (10 children) | Copy

There's a lot of RP wisdom in rap music once you decode the ebonics.

[–]alpha_n3rd14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

You give me your number, I call you up, you act like your pussy on interrupt

I ain't got no problem with you fuckin me but I got a little problem with you not fuckin me

ODB was da man

[–]RatherPlayChess-3 points-2 points  (3 children) | Copy

not lately. If you go back to the OG shit like GURU, there's nothing but redpill. They rap about ENLIGHTENMENT. Modern 'radio rap' and everything post-tupac is just "niggerniggerniggernigger." It's distasteful.

[–]dan_legend3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

You could have went with the whole drake being the perfect man slave to every girl he raps about who still dump him, but no, you had to go there.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Drake is perfect for 48 laws of power because you hear him sounding like a "bitch", but he's fucking strippers left, and right while the people call him pussy sit at home wishing they fucked the chicks he was fucking.

[–]gillstopper40 points41 points  (1 child) | Copy

The only case where I would consider that genuine would be facebook since you can contact their family members and friends as well. But reddit? Don't even get me started on how little I care about people's comments

[–]Ibex3D12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've heard a few where it was legit. Like when they get your phone number, email, FB, etc. One kid killed himself because they bullied him by text and would beat him up if he didnt respond. but 99% of cyber bulling is bullshit. Just dont read what they say.

[–]Rougepellet41 points42 points  (11 children) | Copy

Similar to when muslims got offended about the cartoons by charlie hebdo and everyone told them to stfu.

[–]1nzgs43 points44 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nonsense. If Hebdo was a libertarian magazine then people would be telling them they got what they deserved. There was so much establishment sympathy for CH because they are a far-left cultural marxist magazine that supports the general multicultural narrative in Europe. This is the same magazine that TWICE started petitions to ban the Front Nationale party. They absolutely detest free speech and so do their supporters. FLFTW16 is entirely correct - most people do not want freedom at all. Very very few people have the intelligence and responsibility to desire a truly free-market voluntary society. Marxism in its various forms never really dies because most people behave like followers and like being told what to do. The parallels with the red pill should be obvious.

[–]RatherPlayChess2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the same magazine that TWICE started petitions to ban the Front Nationale party.

I had no idea... but I still support their right to free speech, even if they are using that speech to attempt to censor others.

If I used my power to censor those who would censor those who would censor people, I have become the monster.

Instead, it's necessary to become the stopgap and to say that even if CH was endorsing a detestable idea, it was still their right to support it.

I'm sure all of this seems obvious, but I sensed that you were advocating a pitiless stance on CH as though because their ideology was that of a cultural Marxist nature, they hadn't the right to say what they thought, regardless of content or consequences. (barring libel and slander of course)

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW1675 points76 points  (7 children) | Copy

You mean when the rest of the world kowtowed and people said 'Je ne suis pas Charlie', and admitted that offending religions is stupid, and even the Catholic Pope said that it's wrong to insult religion?

The fact is that the vast majority of people are sheep and don't believe in free speech. In numerous countries saying that the holocaust didn't happen will get you a prison sentence.

People don't want freedom. Freedom is scary and offensive.

[–]frequentlywrong13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

The most incredible irony of french free speech rally is that a provocative comedian who said something that could be interpreted as being on the side of terrorists was arrested for saying it the next day.

[–]Anaxamandrous40 points41 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Armenian Genocide is a neat one. Turkey has made it a crime to acknowledge it, and a couple other European countries have made it a crime to deny it. They say Talleyrand, when asked during a period of unrest, whose side he was on, answered that he would know tomorrow. In other words, he would declare once he knew who would win. Well in Europe if you're asked about the Armenian Genocide, asked if you acknowledge it, you are well advised to respond that you'll answer the question after you've checked your map.

I know some left leaning Europeans who argue in favor of banning the "Heil Hitler" crap and Holocaust denial. I have asked them if they realize how silly they seem, combating Hitler's memory by emulating Hitler.

I have to agree with you, most people only want speech to be free as long as it offends nobody, which of course means they don't want speech to be free at all.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree. I'm religious and I think we should be free to criticise (and insult) whatever we like.

[–]MicroMinion5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Charlie Hebdo is one of the stupidest things that has happened in the last two years. We all know we are not free to say what we want, and if you believe in that lie you should really consider that tinfoil hat to keep the brainwashing radiowaves out.

Seriously though, Charlie Hebdo was a huge case of complete hypocrisy, and supporting their statement in contrast to some people who got arrested for saying things that don't even insult someone (see "you may not deny WW2" (no I don't deny it but if people want to tinfoil that hard just let them) as as an example, or any of the many, many different cases of censoring) is just buying into the huge propaganda

[–]dan_legend2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The fact is that the vast majority of people are sheep and don't believe in free speech. In numerous countries saying that the holocaust didn't happen will get you a prison sentence.

The saddest part of it is when you try to explain to them how ridiculous they sound, EVEN THOUGH YOU AGREE THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED (or anything that relates to this example), and they immediately respond asking why you don't believe the holocaust happened. Sigh..

[–]Gnometard2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Turns out, I'm a racist for saying the Hebdo shit was not offensive at all and people freaking out about it had not even seen it. I'm still waiting for the ones that were "so bad you don't see them in the media" to prove my racism.

[–]Dev_on 50 points50 points [recovered] | Copy

just remember that when another fucking idiot goes into 2x, acting as if it's a safe place to talk about the wall and solipism

[–]robostanleys38 points39 points  (2 children) | Copy

If they're going to make 2X a default subreddit, they better be prepared when people come in and disagree with them.

[–]CornyHoosier1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Isn't 2X already a default sub-reddit?

[–]dan_legend1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That was his point, but it was poorly worded.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

"Don't talk about TRP in other subs" is the new "read the sidebar"

[–]dan_legend6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

It really is turning into Fight CLub..

[–]1Dev_on2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

By that you mean the solid, basic advice that no one seems to follow?

[–]CornyHoosier1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sadly it's true. I don't mention TRP at all anymore. Some of the time people go into my comment history though and then bash me for it.

At the end of the day I don't really care. It's some silly "internet points". I don't even HAVE link karma. It's at the stock (1)

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They have said since I post here my opion doesn't matter, they just hating because I was correct and they were somewhat less than correct.

[–]1cover200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I've disagreed there, in a RP way (but not calling it that usually) and gotten allies. Women who are not misandrist really have no way to call out those who are without a man representing them. The shitstorm they would get otherwise from their "sisters" would make your hair stand on end.

Feminism is hardest on the women.

[–][deleted] 119 points120 points  (6 children) | Copy

we are now a world of sooks, people screaming and crying because they are offended. its just sad.

[–]Magnum25624 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's because society protects those people the most and gives them the most rights, and if you do anything to silence them or contradict their opinion then you're the bully and they're the victim. We now live in a world where the loudest most obnoxious fuckheads get the furthest, and the strong-minded, silent types get the least; it's not like in our grandfather's era where shutting your mouth and man'ing up was the best way to get things done.

[–]TheGillos7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

shutting your mouth and man'ing up was the best way to get things done.

It still is in the real world.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

We don't live in the 'real' world but a feminist inspired illusion.

[–]Knight_of_autumn13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

And people are wondering why all of the Middle eastern countries aren't taking America seriously anymore. It's just going to be Rome all over again. The pre-eminent world power, crumbling at the hands of savages because they have lost their values.

[–]u-r-silly5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

"If there’s ever a time when you don’t feel safe or comfortable, hit that report button. We’ll be there."

from the "you'll be banned if you disagree with us, because that's harassment and body shaming" link in OP.

Very sad indeed.

[–]UgUgImDyingYouIdiot70 points71 points  (10 children) | Copy

One of my other accounts is a mod account in a "conspiracy/dark enlightenment" sub and I've had an uptick of SJW messages asking me to contact admins to ban certain users who are critical of leftist ideology.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy

do you tell them to eat a dick?

[–]UgUgImDyingYouIdiot47 points48 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah I called them hypocritical cunts

[–]fistulatte 15 points15 points [recovered] | Copy

What's the sub? I'm intrigued conspiracy/dark enlightenment is right up my alley.

[–]RojoEscarlata15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

hahhaa I was banned from /r/navy for pointing out that some JIDF where in the thread.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol, the second TRP is banned is the second I never use reddit again

[–]PumpDumpPumpDump91 points92 points  (7 children) | Copy

Good luck. That's like saying "these guys are a cancer, let's smash them into little pieces to cure it!"

What happens then? Metastasis. You can't kill ideas, and 100,000 people is a lot of people. Now they're spread around reddit, spread around the internet. If people can't talk about this stuff here, they'll talk about it someplace else.

Realistically this sub is going to go away someday, but it's too late to stop people from thinking the crimethink. There's too many other websites and too many people who've been introduced to the ideas. The major news media has started writing stories about how terrible sites like this are, which is basically just free advertising. There's already twice as many subscribers here as the feminism subreddit. The comments sections on mainstream news articles often look like they're TheRedPill nowadays anyway, because so many people from places like this swarm them.

The only way you could shut us up is if we're wrong. If men try out the ideas here and don't get laid, they'll stop doing them. Although for some reason I don't see very many "I tried being confident and assertive and the women hated it and fucked a brony instead" posts.

But if we're right, the implications are far worse than these people understand. Everyone here is focused on self-improvement in a way I've never seen anywhere else. If we're right, that is a huge competitive advantage over anybody else, and a large chunk of the next generation of the country's business leadership is going to be people who subscribe to the ideas of this sub.

[–]Breach_of_trust 38 points38 points [recovered] | Copy

Since I started reading this sub, I've become the director of my own software consultancy firm and have employees. I always had it in me but trp was the catalyst. Purely anecdotal of course. Will offer my services to puerarchy this evening to develop a forum for them.

Edit: free of charge ofc

[–]1Claude_Reborn21 points22 points  (3 children) | Copy

free of charge ofc

Never work for free.

You can do the work at your standard rate, and chose to give them a 100% discount, but never work for free.

Always let people know what you're worth

[–]Breach_of_trust 27 points27 points [recovered] | Copy

Free of charge doesn't mean free, I get the smile on my face when the SJW crowd realises their efforts effect nothing. That's worth a hundred times my daily rate.

[–]RojoEscarlata2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

You misunderstood him, wanting to share your work in order to push your ideals (or to piss SJW off) is a great cause.

Giving away your work "for free" ironically makes the work itself lose it's value, giving value/price even if you give them a discount of a 100% prevents it.

[–]alphbux25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy

Although for some reason I don't see very many "I tried being confident and assertive and the women hated it and fucked a brony instead" posts.

Laughed my ass off at that one.

[–]okkyle156 points157 points  (6 children) | Copy

Excellent post. Very timely. I was honestly just thinking of this same issue earlier today, though I did not know about the changes to the no harrasment policy.

Not too long ago, reddit announced that it would start censoring posts from "climate change deniers." Putting aside what you may think about global warming, censorship like this should be a warning sign for TRPers. Remember, reddit is fundamentally a democratic website - up voting and down voting. This is antithetical to free speech, and basically means that when the majority doesn't like certain material, that material will be cast aside and eventually banned.

Truth is treason in an empire of lies. Time to start building a life boat.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Source? While I believe you, I don't recall seeing this.

[–]OhRoshambo34 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy

The real problem with this is the number of bots. Censoring a subject becomes a buy 5000 downvotes for $15.

[–]riverraider6925 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy

reddit announced that it would start censoring posts from "climate change deniers."

Reddit didn't, certain subreddits did. It actually speaks in favor of subreddit independence - you do what you want on your own turf. Plus it looks like they got sick of having the same unconstructive conversation, so it's more alike to banning trolls.

http://grist.org/climate-energy/reddits-science-forum-banned-climate-deniers-why-dont-all-newspapers-do-the-same/

[–]sweetleef16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy

Not too long ago, reddit announced that it would start censoring posts from "climate change deniers."

There's no better indicator of the weakness of an argument than prohibiting disagreement with it.

[–]FatStig 16 points16 points [recovered] | Copy

It's usually not even denying. It's questioning the wisdom of making trillion dollar decisions that will have on the order of the same downside as predicted climate change based on unproven models.

I'm no expert in climate change but I am in modeling and simulation. I would not trust any model that much.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Temperatures have swung wildly long before humans came along to perturb the CO2 concentrations by burning fossil fuels. And temperatures have shifted when CO2 stays constant. If they wanted to help the environment they would tax pollutants that do actual harm and not a fundamental molecule of photosynthesis and respiration.

[–]putsch8055 points56 points  (4 children) | Copy

If someone hasn't backed up the sidebar materials that are hosted on reddit, it might be a good idea to do so.

[–]PublicallyViewable4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Aren't all of them backed up by those archive sites?

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Not really. Some will be by the larger Internet archive website and Google cache, but not all.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There are links in the misandry bubble that go to spearhead articles that no longer exist. It's a shame.

[–]DanReggins 24 points24 points [recovered] | Copy

Reddit has banned controversial subreddits before, along with shadowbanning anyone who participated -- even if they were using separate accounts. They'd get the user's main accounts, too.

There are other places that already exist that are mostly SJC-free.

[–]naturalredpill8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good. I will be out of here any way. I hope reddit lives long as the other myspace.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone follow http://therationalmale.com/. Rollo's site is really good. Probably the most comprehensive blog on RP theory in the manosphere.

[–]8thhenry252 points253 points  (74 children) | Copy

Which books will they be burning? 21st century nazis.

[–]Rathadin27 points28 points  (7 children) | Copy

I want to see them ban /r/redpillwomen after this subreddit gets blown up, that'd be some hilarious shit.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan49 points50 points  (0 children) | Copy

They'll probably get a pussy pass.

[–]1independentmale4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

They'll ban it "for their own protection." I've seen posts by SJWs claiming RP women need rescuing from RP men who have abused and brainwashed them.

[–]krustytheclown24 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

I'm a dude but I think that subreddit is pretty cool. They prescribe to the same principles as we do and their members encourage somewhat submissive behavior.

[–]FatStig -2 points-2 points [recovered] | Copy

They try. The hamster reigns supreme even there though.

[–]krustytheclown2 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

if you don't mind can you explain "hamstering" to me? I am new and don't have a firm understanding.

[–]RatherPlayChess1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

in a term "fallacious thinking."

[–]NoRegretj15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

I almost want to wonder how it'll be written down in history; but I won't be here to read it so fuck it who cares.

[–]1sailorJery36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy

In the words of Achilles, that's why no one will remember your name.

[–]crazytrpr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

99.99% of RP are not of Achilles stature. No one will remember their names if they go down in flames fighting to the death for TRP either.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (62 children) | Copy

Surely you understand the difference between a company deciding what is or is not allowed on its website and state sponsored censorship, right?

[–]InfiniteBauer13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Of course reddit can do whatever it pleases, but something doesn't have to be unconstitutional to be subject to criticism. Freedom of speech is a private value in addition to a public right.

[–]rpkarma90 points91 points  (18 children) | Copy

It's a shame you're down voted, as you have a decent point.

Where the lines blur however, is that the Internet is almost a state unto itself. However, it's a "state" that's entirely owned by corporations. That's why it's worrying, as while you are correct, the corporations that own the Internet could ban your speech, and enact that ban rather simply.

That's why it's worrying. Imo anyway.

[–]Cypher21129 points30 points  (9 children) | Copy

His point isn't really valid to be honest as the parallel isn't about state sponsored censorship vs website censorship. This is about institutional censorship, and we see this happening at all levels - in companies, in intellectual circles, at a state level, on websites, the list goes on. Institutional censorship is always bad no matter what organisation is endorsing or enforcing it.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

Institutional censorship is always bad no matter what organisation is endorsing or enforcing it.

Unless they're censoring trolls/shills.

[–]Lt_Muffintoes9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

If a community is vulnerable to them, it's not worth much. You can't troll mathematicians, because what they are discussing is rigorous and true. If the red pill is fundamentally true, trolling and shilling are very obvious.

[–]Cypher2110 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I originally was going to reply saying something similar to this, but then the more I thought about it the more I realised how a lot of communities and societies are surprisingly vulnerable to external influences. I mean just look at something like the anti vaccination movement or members of the flat earth society. It boggles the mind that people can believe in stuff like that and yet it still happens - perhaps putting a stop to shilling and the like is good for the protection of a society and / or community. You will always have members who are either uneducated or just of a lower intellect and it's important for overall cohesion that they not be led astray and cause confusion amongst other members.

[–]Lt_Muffintoes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The trouble there is, that if you have a culture where banning and/or censorship are acceptable, where does it end?
Who gets to decide that is a bannable offence, or what gets censored?
How do you prevent infiltration into the mod team?

You need a fundamentally objective standard for the moderation to be safe, but then once you've established such a thing, the need for moderation becomes obsolete. Like I said, you can't troll or shill physics conferences. You can troll and shill sociol science groups, because their standards are not rigorous or objective.

Format-specific moderation, e.g. countering electronic spam, I think is valuable.

And look,

You will always have members who are either uneducated or just of a lower intellect and it's important for overall cohesion that they not be led astray and cause confusion amongst other members.

In a way, that's a cost of being dumb or ingnorant. Lowering the freedom bar to accomodate the lowest common denominator suggests to me that the community is not worth saving.

If you know you are right, it doesn't matter what idiots tell you.

[–]Cypher2112 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I originally wrote a reply disagreeing with you but the more I think about it the more I agree - that's a fair point.

[–]longerdistance2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

In many places on the internet "troll" has become synonymous with "someone who disagrees with me".

Don't underestimate the ability of people to change the meaning of words to fit their agenda.

[–]RatherPlayChess-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

no. Censorship is censorship.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Freedom of speech was created to protect you from the state and nothing else. If reddit doesn't let you speak, there's nobody stopping you from making a better website yourself.

[–]tones20134 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

up until recently reddit represented itself as being very libertarian and a haven for free speech. But now its owned by a big company thats image conscious. And they got pretty damn big and rich by representing themselves as such. Reddit wouldnt exist today if they had been censor happy in the beginning.

[–]aazav9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Then it's institution sponsored censorship, with Reddit being the censor.

[–]ThePedanticCynic5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Corporations run the world, not governments.

Read the second and third books of the Foundation series. The Mule and the Trade Federation. That's where we are now.

I don't know who the Mule is in this analogy, but we have plenty of corporate interests running the US; and they're not even hiding it anymore. That's how in control they are.

[–]occupythekitchen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah but reddit is successful because it gives different people different safe heaven for different people to discuss their opinions. They could censor theredpill to not go to r!front but other than that is bullshit

[–]1Dev_on-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

that still has to be enforced. At what point does government get to coerce private people to act on their private property to a non-shareholder?

Imagine reddit were your house, and someone wanted the right to yell like an idiot in there about the KKK, would anyone be against kicking him out? What if it were a more palatable message? Should that make a difference?

Either way, until you have shares, or a placard with your name on it, remember the power dynamic here, you have none

[–]RatherPlayChess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

and someone wanted the right to yell like an idiot in there about the KKK, would anyone be against kicking him out?

No. If the site owner decides that a specific person or a specific message are not welcome on his website, they have the right to remove those people and messages. i.e., you do not have the RIGHT to speak freely in a private forum.

Of course all of this comes with the open admission of censorship. Reddit would need to be formally recognized as a place for SOME ideas.

And thankfully due to the free nature of information, reddit censoring people would ultimately mean the "cool" people being censored will go find a home somewhere else which would ultimately replace reddit.

As a general rule, the more censored a forum, the less populated a forum.

[–]rpkarma0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Man you're all ascribing thoughts to me that I don't have. I was just pointing out that while state censorship is different to institutional censorship, the oddity that is the Internet has blurred some lines.

[–]rattamahatta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The poster was responding with a less nuanced approach in mind: "book burning" and "Nazis".

[–]Anderfail27 points28 points  (7 children) | Copy

Come on man, you do realize they want to get this shit codified into fucking law right? These people are authoritarian and want total control over you and your own thoughts. Their endgame literally IS 1984 where you will go to prison for "wrongthink". Blow them off at your own mercy, but I won't be sticking my head in the sand.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan23 points24 points  (6 children) | Copy

All hail the second amendment! It was designed as a defence against such tyranny. Lock and load boys. The founding fathers would be disgusted.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck the zombie kings. Our rights only exist in the effect that we can enforce them.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Grab yer pitchforks guns afforded to you by the zombie kings then!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Haha if only. I don't even live in a country where that is a choice.

[–]ShekelBanker1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I see your point but might I remind you not everyone's an American? I'd be looking into at least 8 years jail if the government finds out I own an AK from the 1989 revolution.

[–]my_sfw_alias4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Spoiler alert: They just found out.

[–]DrXaos22 points23 points  (5 children) | Copy

The algorithm to determine what is allowed on its website will be governed 100% by the desire to monetize from mainstream advertisers.

That will be the exclusive arbiter: might these upset the sensibilities of any advertiser in Indiana or their customers? If so, it's out.

BTW the CEO of Reddit is suing a previous employer over sexual harassment and discrimination.

[–]FatStig 26 points26 points [recovered] | Copy

Women are the primary consumers. Anything that upsets their feelz will be banned.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

If you don't like the way the ceo is acting why don't you send a message and stop using her product?

[–]Newdist20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm already using adblock.

Fight the power, man.

[–]GhostInTheRedPill-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

The algorithm to determine what is allowed on its website will be governed 100% by the desire to monetize from mainstream advertisers.

Therefore we should be buying directly from the ads shown on the subreddit's pages, more than any other part of reddit, if we wish to best protect this space.

As shillish as I felt typing that, it's the fucking reality of the situation.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, but Reddit is (supposedly) very much about free speech.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Free speech only goes as far as I agree with the opinion stated.

[–]NS_white1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm sure he does. However, that doesn't mean we can't do something about it

[–]1Dev_on-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

like go to the 10,000 other places that would serve the same function?

[–]NS_white1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think for the sake of the community it would be best to stay here. We need to act as a chip in the feminist agenda, something someone from reddit can stumble up and become awakened.

[–]1Dev_on0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't have women that I'm not even sleeping with change my behavior

[–]lolskaters2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy

Both SJWs and Nazis are/were very effective at censoring speech containing viewpoints differing from their own.

Pointing out the difference in the measures taken by each group to bring about that censorship shows that you are missing the point completely.

[–]1Dev_on9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy

I really wish we'd stop using the nazi comparison. It's become so cliche it's almost a meme at this point, pointing out hyperbolic rhetoric

surely you can find someone else in history other than the nazis and the commies who stifle speech

[–]lolskaters4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, the difference between nazis/commies and SJWs is that the only power the SJWs have are twitter campaigns that get the occasional Mozilla CEO fired.

[–]crazytrpr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you can get the CEO fired that is power enough, they can get you fired again and again. That's a tough way to make a living. You don't need brownshirts if all it takes is a twitter campaign.

[–]Ochreata-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

The is especially so because the vast majority of people's perceptions of the "Nazis" comes from Allied propaganda. There's an irony there most miss....

[–]1Dev_on-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

[–]RatherPlayChess1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

He's right though. You don't have to be a Nazi or support the reich to recognize that public perception of a thing is frequently determined by the propaganda of that thing. I'm not saying the Nazis were good. I'm only saying that we view them through a thick lens of the 70 year old propaganda of the victors.

[–]1Dev_on0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not tussling about if it's apt. Um saying it's used so much that it's lost all meaning

[–]Ochreata0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I appreciate your reply. Censorship is the removal of truth, propaganda is the propagation of untruth. I find it ironic to use the child of one to demonise the other.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You've missed the point completely.

[–]lolskaters2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Censorship is censorship. Whether or not the censorship is state sponsored doesn't say much unless we're talking about the legality of it.

[–]crazytrpr0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Reddit can do what it likes just like we can take our eyeballs elsewhere at least for now. People have to understand that no amount blathering about the first amendment will change that.

I do agree private censorship is still censorship. Unfortunately it has to be combated differently. You cannot simply sue or protest: I have a right blah blah!!! and expect to "win".

Surrendering by moving off reddit would be an answer.

Second, OPSEC, time to change names more frequently. Frankly I don't care what reddit does, I do care if I lose my job.

[–]2jagrmeister7210 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Censorship refers to restricting free expression, irrespective of whether the restriction comes from the government or elsewhere. In this case, pressure groups are attempting to do just that across various channels. Corporations can do as they please, they have the right; and we should exercise our right to criticize their attempts to control information by adherence to social agendas.

[–]RatherPlayChess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What you have forgotten in the process of your reasoning is that there is no longer a difference between reddit™ and the state. For example, DARPA aka a branch of the goverment, funds DIGRA, who plans and funds things like Feminist Frequency. This example is FAR from an exhaustive list of examples of leaks and times when it has been shown that government force is behind a campaign for censorship or datamining.

It wasn't long ago that I saw Reddit™ admins were actually trading information with government branches.

From Google™ to TimeWarner™ the MEDIUM of your information is actually being used to influence the CONTENT of your information.

This is not science fiction, or fantasy. At this point, it's common knowledge. Censorship on websites are just expressions of censorship from the state.

(though of course this cannot ALWAYS be said to be true, it cannot ALWAYS be said to not be true either.)

[–]8thhenry0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes I do but these same Internet thought police have their hooks in the schools/government. For another topic but the BS my kids hear school echoes the SJW crap here. My last few years in the army were more about being Beta boy than a soldier.

[–]1sailorJery0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

think about from whence the pressure to decide the rules for content come

[–]ForensicFungineer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's not state sponsored, but it is borne from a mob mentality and carried along by threats of non-conformity to the politically correct status quo.

You can look up a hundred people that were doxxed and reprimanded because of perfectly legal opinions that they had.

[–]2niczar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Censorship is censorship, whether state-sponsored or not.

[–][deleted] 110 points111 points  (16 children) | Copy

This is exactly what happened with 4chan

Being offensive is the new being communist

McCarthyism witchunting in the 21st century

[–]HV12311 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

You hit the nail on the head with a massive sledge hammer.

The law, in the anglosphere, at least is massively shifting over to "offence" being an offence.

[–]LD_in_MT2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

A lot of cool websites we're created by people in their 20's who were full of idealism. After a decade, many have decided it's time to move on/cash in. Corporations take over and all corporations can agree about is profit. You can say whatever you want so long as it doesn't threaten profitability.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

/u/3409852034 has thankfully compiled a handbook of Red Pill posts. Definitely worth checking out/ downloading.

[–]3409852034 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy

Thank you for mentioning the book.

In the event that this sub goes down, you can always download copies at www.redpillhandbook.com

[–]johnyann58 points59 points  (4 children) | Copy

You guys need to understand that Reddit is a WONDERFUL mind control devise. The up votes and down votes are a fantastic way to dictate speech and popular opinion.

And don't tell me it isn't gamed every day.

Reddit just got an injection of like 40 million dollars, and moved to San Francisco. They need to monetize. Im almost positive that Reddit did some kind of deal with the DNC to get Obama to do an AMA.

This is only the first step. Next it's gonna be about protecting brands and services they're allied with.

[–]alphbux11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

Wasn't part of the DoD or NSA actually staging downvotes and upvotes on particular things, not just on Reddit, but also YouTube and other things online?

[–]mickydonavan4179 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

That's how Justin Beiber got so many views for Baby.

[–]waynebradysworld1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

God I love that song, it was my ringtone for like 6 months.

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy

This happened recently on Fark.com. At first, many simply made jokes about it I even made a few pics poking fun at it. Nothing major until the deletion of posts and temporary bans for anything someone found offensive. In the end, I decided to find a home elsewhere and ended up on Reddit.

Link for those who are interested in seeing the pics I made.

Edit: Corrected link formatting.

[–]yety17515 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

How long will it be before reddit Is Tumblr 2.0

[–]KJL134 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

About five minutes. There was someone on r/pf that claimed they were LGBT i.e. every one.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

TRP won't be banned. We see it come up in media as being portrayed as the evil of al evils, the woman hating sludge fest, the self righteous man-disease cesspool... My bad bros, you get the idea.

The reality, we are 90k or more deep of endorsed contributors, frequent posters, non frequent posters, and lurkers.

I've seen post after post, compliments after thank you's after please help me's on this subreddit and its branch subs, that it's hard to even gerbil your way out of acknowledging the movement that is going on here.

I'm not talking about some woman hating movement either. I've said it before and I'll continue saying it. I like women, a lot even. I highly enjoy the company of women, but I hate forces that pull me from my own goals in life. It just so happens that women, when a sexual interest applies, brings forth the most bull shit I've ever experienced.

Anyway, I assume the administrators of reddit as a whole have spent some time here. I'd even venture a guess and say at least a few of them frequent this sub because they agree with it. They have alt usernames, they have proxy servers and VPNs they go through, but they're here.

They'll always be here and so will you after you've experienced reality. TRP will never go away.

[–]USNavySeal15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

What an excellent post.

I feel like most of the hate the redpill gets is because the landing page is usually littered with noobs who write crap about how they fucked plates or treated women like shit. If only these morons would realize how fucking powerful RP is when you fully understand it.

I mean, my life has changed so drastically, I've actually completely changed my life. I get shivers when I think about what would have happened if RP hadn't saved me.

I agree with you when you say it won't go down. It's way too big.

[–]curious9714 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy

I would like to emphasize once more how important it is to backup the sidebar material/top posts. There is some excellent material on here and it would help the new website a lot if there was a foundation to build upon.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvacuu12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

The top posts (even most of the upvoted posts, I'd argue) are where the gold is at. The sidebar is but a small fraction of the content, and is already available elsewhere on the web.

To lose the archive of posts here would be huge.

[–]cooltrip-2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy

If you had to leave in less than 30 seconds, all you really need to back up in your mind is just 3 things: 1º) women are hypergamous (they're only loyal to superiority); 2º) they are hypergamous because they are inferior (so treat them as such and don't put them on a pedestal; this is all the "game" you need); and 3º) only looks and handsomeness matter to them about men.

[–]FatStig 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

3 is wrong. Those are secondary factors. Power, status, and dominance matter most to them.

[–]Howasheena-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Elaboration:

When they're young they are attracted to the outward signs of power, status, and dominance: they want a confident asshole.

Only when they get burned several times, and grow older, do they begin looking for the reality in addition to the appearance.

[–]ModAerobus15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy

We need to start archiving some of the best posts of all time.

I will be able to help with this project in the near future.

[–]sir_wankalot_here-5 points-4 points  (0 children) | Copy

People can start by making blogs. It is pretty difficult to take down a domain name. Then the blogs can be linked together. It really isn't an issue. Someone should make a usenet group.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

That's the great thing about TRP; it isn't one single point of gathering because you can always go to Roissy, Rollo, Illumintable man, GLO has twitter, Roosh, etc.

If TRP gets banned then people will search the manosphere and find new blogs they didn't know existed

[–]Rathadin12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

What makes this place valuable is that its on a massive site that everyone knows. I've only been using Reddit for a little over a year. I knew about "The Red Pill" in a vague sense... since I'd read Neil Strauss' The Game back in 2005, but I've found a ton of resources that I didn't know existed just from this subreddit alone.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Illumintable

Great fucking name! Looks AND sounds amazing. Illumintable. We need to get this shit in dictionaries.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

When I try to google your name/site it's an act of shame

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hahaha. That's really funny man. I want people to be able to find my site though. http://illimitablemen.com/ - bookmark it if spelling isn't your strong point.

I bet the dyslexics hate me.

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[–]too_long_didnt_read 20 points20 points [recovered] | Copy

Putting a women in charge of anything is usually a bad idea. They are followers, not leaders.

[–]randomtask200514 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

Depends on your goal. Women are perfect for leading the fight in political battles. They argue over little things like "phrasing" which can be a massive deal in contracts. Consensus building or stakeholder analysis would work well for them too.

I would trust maybe a handful of the women I know in a leadership position (as in two). Mostly because they don't act like women in the office. It's all business.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly this. Discounting women entirely for kneejerk reasons is a dumb idea and will lead to you being weaker than your opponent.

[–]AntixD38 points39 points  (6 children) | Copy

we don't harass anyone,it's when they visit here and fuck with us and we fuck them back up,that's not harassment,that's poking the bear,if they don't like us don't visit here,simple

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[–]longerdistance1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

post-modern progressive thinking

Maybe today, but the real common denominator is that it's the thinking of any ideology based on lies. Because to such an ideology, like feminism or fundamentalist religion, it is essential that everyone believes the lies.

They cannot defend their ideas logically so even someone just disagreeing with them is a threat to their ideology and fake peace of mind. To save the ideological consensus their will have to "remove" the threat in whatever way is convenient.

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[–]longerdistance0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Allegories to be interpreted based on our current moral framework, with no real reason to believe they were written with that intention. I see no value there.

I will say that taken literally the old testament especially is very redpill. It's a very interesting view on the inner workings of an ancient patriarchal society once you've taken the pill.

[–]sweetleef7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you are pushing an illogical agenda, eventually people realize it's illogical and reject it. At that point, you have to resort to force to make them obey. The force available here is to ban the speech.

Communism, cults, doctrinal religions, wars for profit, fiat currencies, militant feminism, etc. - same scheme, different labels.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego76 points77 points  (34 children) | Copy

www.puerarchy.com

The backup plan is already in place. Bookmark it now.

[–]WaynesCotting[S] 52 points53 points  (11 children) | Copy

I see, it's http://www.puerarchy.com. Am I missing something though? It doesn't look like a user forum where everyone is equal, which is what makes TRP so great. Instead it seems like an entity controls the content of the site rather than the collective users.

I don't want someone lecturing to me, I want a community hub.

[–]Endorsed ContributorGarl_Vinland26 points27 points  (10 children) | Copy

/u/redpillschool (the top mod here) runs it. There has been a lot of talk in the past about adding a forum like feature to it. If TRP goes down go there for news.

[–]csehszlovakze8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

The site needs phpbb badly. It's an older forum engine but as a normal user I had no problems with it.

[–]buckfitchesgetmoney7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

Come to the 21st century https://github.com/vanilla/vanilla

[–]MetacognitiveMan7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Nah. Discourse is 21st century. :-) http://www.discourse.org/

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

$200/month? Not sure if serious.

[–]MetacognitiveMan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What is $200 a month? I can host a discourse instance for $20/month via Linode.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

There are a lot of forum technologies. If there was an emergency, I could have a forum up tonight.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Please add a forum. I've met so many good men who aren't mods on this sub.

[–]Modredpillschool23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's just our offsite meeting place, new forums will be either hosted or announced there.

[–]NeoreactionSafe18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

I've seen this happen before.

The original site goes down... the new one gets newly populated.

The new site becomes popular.

The original site comes back, but by then the new one is preferred.

Will go to new site when "it happens".

[–]easyrandomguy10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

reddit's software is open source: https://github.com/reddit/reddit

[–]we_kill_creativity2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

So many deleted comments after this. Any idea what they were about?

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[–]squiremarcus9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

Reddits format isn't really complex. How difficult would it be to make a Reddit clone.

[–]csehszlovakze 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

the whole source code is on github, and there's Voat which advertises itself to be SJW-free

[–]squiremarcus1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

made a voat account, any idea what traffic the site gets?

[–]sweetleef7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Voat

I like the look of it. I'd be happy to use Voat, if it means even a brief escape from the screeching SJWs and perpetual victims that reddit is infested with.

reddit looks close to reaching critical mass and pulling a digg - it seems to happen to all forums and "social media" sites eventually. Once they get big enough, the mods get really full of themselves and power-drunk, and start forcing their own vision on everybody. Look for some new "big site upgrade" with a layout change or "reddit 2.0" or some such bullshit as a signal to jump ship.

[–]squiremarcus2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It doesnt have a few features but it is good enough if i need a replacement for reddit

[–]1DetectiveDing-Daaahh8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm so triggered right now.

[–]1Dark-Ulfberht18 points19 points  (11 children) | Copy

Fuck 'em. Let's up the ante. Reddit's peaking anyway.

Who wants to build some new shit?

[–]easyrandomguy9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

reddit's software is open source: https://github.com/reddit/reddit

[–]1Dark-Ulfberht0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Huh. I just need to buy some server space.

TIL.

[–]Senior Contributorcocaine_face0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Redpill specifically or general purpose?

[–]1Dark-Ulfberht0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was thinking more general, like an upgraded and polished version of 4chan.

I know 4chan conjures some stereotypes, but what I mean here is that there is minimal censorship and moderation. Think what you may of them the /b/rotherhood does appear to truly back free speech.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise? While I am grateful to the awakening that TRP has provided me, staying online when I could be reading, lifting, or otherwise improving my life is somewhat counterproductive to the heart of TRP.

On another note, what's stopping we, the members of TRP from developing our own website that serves as the new hub of all TRP knowledge and discussion? At this point, Reddit only serves as a vehicle to TRP to me, and it would be quite convenient having our own website.

[–]Cloughtower2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I imagine the traffic would make things cost-prohibitive

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We are Red Pill. We focus on action and finding solutions. There'll always be unlimited reasons as to why things are difficult, but we find solutions. This is just one potential solution.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reddit is based in sanfran now, expect a cleansing.

Soon to be followed by decline and closure.

[–]TheRationalMale.comRollo-Tomassi5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just a quick note here, TRP subscription is only 4,229 away from 100K now.

The Rational Male is averaging half a million views per month. No advertising, no monetization and no compromising Red Pill truths.

Reddit may not miss TRP, but there will be another dedicated forum. If nothing else, I'll see to it personally.

[–]C00l_Guy23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

Leddit has always been a marxist hellhole. Even more so since the crackdown on sub-leddits any contrary opinion is mass-downvoted by bots.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

We start a men only reddit then. Femmit would collapse under its own stupidity.

[–]grimreaperx25 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know what's funny, now that you mention it, here in trp we don't have to worry about each other because most of us are on the same page. Sure we have some new guys passing the anger stage but usually they chill out. Feminism however is just a train wreck. There is so much disennsion and anger there all the time it's like a hive of yellow jackets. Basically trp has been very stable in its agenda and all the accusations people make against hardly ever stick.

[–]Neo-ReactionaryHarry4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

To answer the real question, where should we go, I have a list:

1) Rollo's Blog

2) ReturnofKings Blog

3) Heartiste

4) BoldandDetermined

5) Youtube

[–]prodigyx0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah this is a good list. Hoping /u/yahyahyahya and /u/WaynesCotting will edit this into their posts.

[–]yahyahyahya1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Will take a look at this when I have a chance. Currently archiving top 100 posts from each category.

[–]1TheReason135 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Successful advocates of truth are those who kept their forbidden knowledge to themselves and formed secret societies and organizations. These people learned from the mistakes of their fathers that any attempt at enlightening and educating the masses would end in ridicule and inquisition.

The "freemasons" for example are some of the most powerful, and also the most wealthy people on this planet. Their had been a time when this organization literally manipulated populations to their will. The secret to their wealth is merely knowledge of the realities of this world, knowledge they've been groomed from early ages to accept and master. Much like us here at TRP.

Our exile is inevitable, its simply a matter of time. What troubles me is whether we will disperse or regroup at a bigger, more independent, more private, more organized base.

There has never been a future for us at reddit, our future is dependent on our independence and reddit can not offer that. We need to leave here anyway.

[–]Chicken_Hands0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like of your way of thinking.

[–]we_kill_creativity4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The same thing was being talked about on r/conspiracy. If some of you missed it, there was a really creepy thing the admins did recently regarding a post about nothing more than a building that called itself a daycare.

The post didn't even start on r/conspiracy, but rather r/saltlakecity (of all places). There was a building which claimed to be a daycare, but no resident of the city can recall ever seeing a child outside. It was deleted there by the mods. I mean every fucking comment, no matter how harmless, because they claimed people were harassing the "business", which they weren't.

I don't intend to go into all the details, as that's not my point. My point is this: how the admins will delete a post and even the mods can't do shit about it. (In fact, if this post ends up becoming another discussion of that daycare, the entire post may be deleted, so be careful and wise)

So the original post gets deleted from r/saltlakecity by the mods (that's important to remember, by the mods), and then the conversation migrates to r/conspiracy and becomes pretty popular there.

There ended up being 2-3 posts about it, because somehow they kept getting deleted, and it wasn't by the mods. I was talking to the mods about it, and they weren't sure if it was a malfunction of a spam filter, or just the admins removing it for god knows what reason, so the mods put them back up, BUT! ... all pending finding out if the admins removed it.

Because, and this is my whole point, if the admins remove a post there is jack...fucking...shit....that any mod can do about it.

The end of the r/conspiracy story is such...

The mods stickied a post to the top of r/conspiracy stating, in no uncertain terms, that they all personally disagreed with the removal of the posts, but there was literally nothing they could do about it.

So basically, the idea that we should prepare for a rule/policy change or whatever is already a moot point because IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING...

Just wanted to let you know.

[–]TerryYockey1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think the poster child the SJW's had in mind was that colossal toolbag who was constantly posting in here (AppleNewton) calling any man who disagreed with him "faggot", "moron", "pussy" etc. and immediately attacking any woman who posted (rare, but still) with "cunt", "bitch", "whore", etc. and harassing them into quitting the sub.

That knuckle dragging neanderthal fancied himself as a "big dawg", a true "alpha". He was so delusional it was as painful as it was comical. His every word and action was completely contrary to the values of this sub.

He even went as far as to post a link to a females user's nudes she'd sent him when she stopped being receptive.

Finally the POS got shadowbanned by the admins. But why he was allowed to carry on in here for as long as he did is entirely beyond me - but I'm certain it's the anomalies like him that the SJW's and detractors like to point out when making their "case".

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

When the shit hits the proverbial fan I reckon I will sit myslef beside the dying embers of Western Civilization, marshmallows in hand and a "told you so" grin on my face.

[–]Arvresit7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

Why not make a redpill board on 8chan.

[–]UGoBoom4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

A few months back, someone did.

It's just a bunch of shit posts right now, but it could be a destination.

[–]Involution882 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Won't work. It would be like setting up a trade school in a circus. Nothing against trade schools or circuses.

hint: shitredditsays and shit4chansays were started by the same kinds of people. The two communities have grown in completely different directions and they ended up having virtually nothing in common. A /redpill board on 8chan would probably devolve into a bunch of shitposts.

4chan/8chan run on very basic things. Asinine comments about dubs. Using offensive words to death. General idiocy. They run on kek. Let them eat kek. You get the idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBiX4XS9HQQ

4chan/8chan are great. They are great at organising grassroots movements. To the point where astroturfing is their biggest problem. They are great at taking on the MSM. They are retarded when it comes to developing an ideology or sending a cohesive signal.

[–]Ojisan11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly the format of a reddit-style site is so much more conducive to the type of conversation and posts that happen here, versus 4chan-style sites.

Someone suggested a more reddit-like option, personally I would prefer that, or even a slashdot-style site.

If this were a democracy that's what I would vote for, but I have faith that this sub has some excellent moderators who I think will work something suitable out. Reddit cannot kill this idea of TRP, and any wound they inflict (banning this sub) will be temporary at worst.

[–]Joshthathipsterkid-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is exactly what i thought. Far less censorship and far less reddit like rules.

[–]hermit087-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

4chan/8chan has always claimed to hate trp and pua whenever the topic has come up, which has always seemed ridiculous to me because most of the userbase clearly supports trp principles.

An 8chan board would always fall victim to being trolled not only by SJW's, but by hypocritical channers who would otherwise claim to support free speech.

[–]Arvresit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If they let mlp have its own board I think we'd be okay too. I'm more worried about user base being lost I'm the exodus regardless of where we go.

[–]bkmnalpha2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

is there any way to download a mini-version of TRP and put it in a torrent? or at least the top 100 or so posts

[–]Cypher2115 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

It's not just the content though. People come here for the discussions and interaction with people of a similar mindset. If the 'social aspect' (for want of a better phrase) goes away then that's a problem in and of itself.

There's nothing wrong with backing up content though either. There's some great posts on here that I'd like to archive. I guess I could just go back through them and copy-paste the raw text if I have to...

[–]bkmnalpha2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

if these subreddit gets closed down, it will be like a slap to the face

i already know that most people dont have a stand on anything , no frame , no nothing, and sjw are using that fact, but deep inside i want to believe that people will see what is right and stand for it

but with the closing of this sub i know that we are meant to be lone wolfs, personal success is our only goal , not improving society/other people

i know i sound like a drama queen, but fuck it, if this subreddit gets closed it is a time to be sad

[–]csehszlovakze0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

yeah, the red pill handbook, not very difficult to find

[–]easyrandomguy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

reddit's software is open source: https://github.com/reddit/reddit

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I guess they'll be banning any fitness-related subreddits as well, since we all have to be accepting of landwhales and their unhealthy lifestyle.

[–]einexile5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

There is one high-profile public forum left on the Internet where you can always speak your mind without being punished for it.

Use it already.

And no, it's not motherfucking 4chan.

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[–]ruboski 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Couldn't sometime get internet archives of every post in TheRedPill?

[–]1Jaereth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thing is, reddit is a hip and fun place to discuss ideas and stuff like that, but in the end, they make no guarantee, literal or implied, that your free speech will be protected. I mean hell, whoever owns it could shut the servers down tomorrow if they so choose.

People always act like they owe us free account holders some pure, free speech forum where censorship is strictly prohibited. Yes, reddit has taken a stance against censorship in the past, but once again, they don't owe us jack shit, and can do as they damn well please.

The thing is, if TRP was just a group of idiotic chauvinists, we wouldn't be drawing the heat. A lot of guys are sick of their shake in the sexual market and start learning strategy to improve their lot. We don't want to become Japan. So even if the website owners do shut down our nice free forum here, I think the ideas are out there already. The words already out that some guys are reinventing the game.

[–]2niczar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When you see what Sarkeesian and her band of narcissistic nutjobs classify as "harassment", it's not too far off.

[–]bder3l1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

make a board on 8chan (8ch.net). everything that isnt illegal is allowed there, no accounts needed to post, and it has a big community already. you make your own boards, just like a subreddit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This, plus based Hotwheels deserves our clicks.

[–]Redpillc0re1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well what did you expect guys. It seems to me the - once to be admired- US culture has really gone down the drain over there.

From the moment your society accepted "Trigger warning" (the idea that language should not evoke some feelings) all i m thinking is that the hopeful, optimistic days when the Internet was the ultimate freeing medium are over. It will start with systemic attempts to ban all provocative speech on websites, and then move to a higher level, cutting off the internet access to anyone who dares to say something that someone somewhere might not like.

The "no harassment" movement is the equivalent of the "occupy" movement. Both are deeply evil for the same reason: they do not allow others to get what they do not have themselves; "if i am lazy and can't make money, nobody should" / "if i don't like this idea, nobody should". Unless somebody crushes those retards with vengeance, they will win, because they act like a mob of sheep.

[–]1oldredder-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

actually Occupy had nothing to do with that - quite a lot of it was to call out massive criminal theft and to demand return of that money. If you actually follow the money quite a lot of us got robbed and still are being robbed and we can point-point names of bankers who did it and laws they broke and laws they're still breaking.

Eric Hunsader at Nanex is still tracking & proving it - he's not an Occupy protester. He's a finance analyst.

Comparing Occupy to this "no harassment" policy is... absurd.

[–]1nzgs-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nonsense. Criminal theft is government taxation supported by these same Occupy useful idiots, which you cannot oppose or opt out from. Bankers never robbed a single person, they don't have any power to force you to pay them, the POLITICIANS robbed you, the same socialist fucks you probably voted for. Funny how all these Occupy idiots love Obama so much even though he was the guy who signed off on vast amounts of state theft, consigning future generations to debt slavery. If these people hated theft so much they would be libertarian capitalists!

These socialist idiots are complaining about the enormous bail-outs paid to bankers which were used to maintain profits. In their stupidity they rushed to blame "capitalist greed" (an oxymoron) when the original problem was government itself undermining the free-market and its natural selection process of bad businesses going bust. So the politicians steal money from taxpayers, give it to bankers, bankers say "Oh, well thanks, guess we'll just carry on then", and all these hippy retards set up tents in the street to demand more taxation and more government.

I am fucking sick to death of this banker-hate. You're either on the side of free trade and competition or you're on the side of state theft and subsidisation. Beta males and women tend to be socialists for a reason - they hate competition and natural selection whether its in the dating world or the business world. Don't be a fucking socialist.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nonsense. Criminal theft is government taxation supported by these same Occupy useful idiots

Nonsense: most of the Occupy people were against that, not for it.

Some didn't even understand it, which isn't good but is expected because in school no one is taught to use critical thinking or look for evidence.

The bankers are robbers breaking racketeering laws, insider-trading and forging court documents to transfer ownership of property (houses, bank accounts) with NO legal precedent to allow them to do so.

For example: Bank of America foreclosed on homes they had no legal claim on, including homes which HAD NO MORTGAGE TO ANYONE!!

I can't just kick you out of your no-mortgage house and claim you're in arrears to pay me on a loan and it's collateral.

I can't just forge documents in a court of law and make you homeless then sell your home or demolish it.

But that's precisely what Bank of America did.

That's theft, fraud, racketeering and several felonies per event and we're talking THOUSANDS of such events.

[–]herewegoaga1n3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone meet back up at 8chan. It's been an honor serving with you blokes. Goodnight and good luck.

R.I.P. TRP on reddit. "Gone but not forgotten."

[–]LoWii 3 points3 points [recovered] | Copy

I don't think the sub will be banned over something like this. The only subs that have been banned in my knowledge were subs for which the legality of the content was highly debatable, like /r/jailbait. Reddit and most online communities usually do support freedom of speech, in the true sense of the term.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy

4chan used to be the poster-child of allowing everything except that which is outright illegal, now they're swamp of SJW crap with mods "sanitizing" the site.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy

honestly moot is such a pussy for doing that. he has no honor and should die for it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

his site will slowly die and he will have nothing

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[–]waynebradysworld-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm sure you have heard this before, but it helps quell bitterness regarding human nature.

Women, like water, take the shape of the container they are in.

[–]tensorstrength0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Looks like its time for there to be a new Reddit

[–]sundaybrunch110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is the time when I truly hoped reddit had a significant rival...

[–]CoffeeMetalandBone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously has anyone set up a forum yet?

[–]Entrefut0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If Redpill gets taken down, I'll take myself elsewhere and laugh at how Reddit is digging it's own grave.

Edit: This is probably the one Sub that would come in handy for when the SJWs start demanding more than reddit expected. Only a matter of time before they'll all be confused as to why they're being used and they need the insane amount of information on this sub to figure it out.

[–]_random_user_10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I thought free speech was unbiased what the hell is this ? banning a reddit page because they don't follow the "women are heavenly beings" bullshit. We don't abuse anybody here but I guess this feminist monster is only going to damage itself pretty bad brace yourselves people.

[–]1nzgs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's a private website, there is no free speech, they can ban whatever they like. Telling private individuals and companies what to do is something feminists would do.

The sensible free-market response is to leave reddit and create a new hub somewhere else.

[–]1Padre55[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ah, in a way such bannings and censorship would be a good thing overall.

Even Reddit, which is basically merely a hodge podge of subjects/interests, eventually comes under such controls. Free Speech and exchange of ideas is merely an ideal after all and one that is discarded to protect the status quo once a sufficient base is achieved.

Ban TRP and the exiles will merely filter elsewhere to exchange information and ideas. Instead of one warehouse of 100k members, 1,000 warehouses of 100 members.

[–]ShekelBanker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We need a Samson option, I vote to take over SRS and 2XC in case TRP and the TRP-related subreddits get deleted.

[–]lone_wanderer1010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They would be crazy to do it. Its suicide.

[–]SeekingTheWay0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am able to set up a custom reddit on my server dedicated to TRP only. Should anyone believe this is deemed required, let me know.

[–]he-man_rules0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

first 4chan, now reddit. very discouraging.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

WTF is this open letter about?

[–]thefoxman880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I do most of my reading via mobile so hopefully https://voat.co/ get a mobile app. We should start "cloning" new content from TRP into Voat in parallel so when the time comes it will be a streamlined transition if needed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

About: *Valuable posts here and the sidebar should be archived. I don't know if there are any efforts to do this.

Is there any top post of single month?

[–]CaptnCookie0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

From a scale of kaceytron to big red, how sure are we that TRP will be targeted? That's fascism.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Huge data dump of EVERY SINGLE post from this sub. Cache it all on another website for searchable access.

[–]Hennez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think we should take it as a wake up call: so long as TRP community doesn't have its own website or blog or whatever, this knowledge would be subject to these waves.

There are many quality blogs and websites around (Rational Male, etc) but we should take steps to backup as many posts as possible in order to preserve as much information as we can and later find our own place.

Remember what happened in Greece before and after Salamis battle: Athenians could not defend Athens and realized that their "city" was not the place but the PEOPLE who had learned to value the democratic system and decided to evacuate all the people, under this reasoning TRP is not this subreddit and has never been. TRP is about all the people who have come to understand, share, value and live by an understanding that living is worthless unless you fight every second of your life to reach your best state possible.

That's why I would be more than glad to help in anyway I can in order to keep the posts, discussions and all the material possible.

P.S: As you know, the Athenians later won that battle and even though it was really hard to see their city dessecrated they had the courage and pride to rebuild it. And nobody will ever take that from them.

[–]Ojisan10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Could the mods of this sub offer a sort of "sign up sheet" where, in case some punitive action is taken by the admins, all our reddit usernames would be kept off-site in a list? The mods could thereby mass message those users (via reddit, to preserve anonymity of those who desire it, but in a direct message rather than in the sub) telling us where the TRP refugees will gather.

Like our own version of the "emergency broadcast system" in the US where they would tell us (supposedly) where to go in case of a major attack or natural disaster.

[–]RatherPlayChess0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

To be prejudiced.
i.e., to pre-judge someone or something before hearing testimony or being met with evidence.

The opposite of which is postjudice. To judge after being met with evidence and testimony.

By their own standard, if the social justice crowd are going to issue a site-wide rule banning prejudiced people, I say we start by banning those who consider themselves the ultimate authority in judging people as prejudiced without evidence or testimony.

[–]symko0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In the 12th century Æbbe the Younger, the Mother Superior of a monastery got her nuns to cut off their nose and upper lip to protect their virginity. The raiding Viking were so disgusted when the saw what happened that they rased the entire village completely burning it to the ground.

TLDR: let Reddit admins screw themselves over. In the end we will be unaffected.

[–]thenarrrowpath0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

These are the very people that the constitution protects us against.

[–]zephyrprime0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, it'd be easy enough to set up a new site dedicated to TRP but I feel like such a forum would decline in popularity. It'd probably be better to go to a new site like VOAT or start up a new reddit clone.

It is clear that Reddit is firmly in the grasp of the sjws. The inclusion of 2x into the default list of subreddits is a clear indication of that. We should get ready to make a move when the inevitable happens.

What I fear is that they will try to kill this sub by degrees instead of all at once. Doing it by degrees would hurt readership more than trying to kill us off all at once.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well it has to have a high frequency of users, obviously we are unlikely to find something as good as reddit.

Choosing an obscure site does allow for more protection agaisnt SJW subversion and I'm sure porting (Still loosing a lot of members) this sub over we could carry a sustainable user base.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How will SJW's have content if they ban subs? As all of it is bitching about what men talk about.

[–]Masonjarteadrinker20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Lets say it does get banned? Then damn we were some lucky mofo's to have come across this while it was up.

[–]1TheReason130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Successful advocates of truth are those who kept their forbidden knowledge to themselves and formed secret societies and organizations. These people learned from the mistakes of their fathers that any attempt at enlightening and educating the masses would end in ridicule and inquisition.

The "freemasons" for example are some of the most powerful, and also the most wealthy people on this planet. Their had been a time when this organization literally manipulated populations to their will. The secret to their wealth is merely knowledge of the realities of this world, knowledge they've been groomed from early ages to accept and master. Much like us here at TRP.

Our exile is inevitable, its simply a matter of time. What troubles me is whether we will disperse or regroup at a bigger, more independent, more private, more organized base.

There has never been a future for us at reddit, our future is dependent on our independence and reddit can not offer that. We need to leave here anyway.

[–]Stuperishstoner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When this goes through im leaving Reddit. The current rules they have for privacy and harassment are a good balance between freedom and accountability. They are destroying this balance and in doing so destroying one of the fundamental aspects of Reddit.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

What if we just made this subreddit private. We could do whatever we wanted then.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No harassment? You mean they would have to stop sending me moronic inciteful messages? Oh wait, they can do any fucked up thing they want, they are always the victim. They can send themselves hateful messages and blame it on us, not like it's the first time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Already subbed to the voat sub

[–]nuesuh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Voat might be the future. Mods are less aggressive towards non-SJW's there.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It'd be hilarious to mess with them if the end comes nigh by changing up the sidebar and up-voting a bunch of completely PC, kitten picture type posts.

EDIT: Or not. You know, let's just let the place be shutdown and give the SJW's their ultimate satisfaction.

[–]WhereRtheAnswersSway0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Reddit is supposed to be an user-based forum where content is systematically filtered through the voting system. I don't think they'll be huge a huge filtration or deletion of threads on The Red Pill, more likely it's just to remove all of the threads specifically made to 'demonize' individuals, like the guy who killed himself after reddit falsely identified him as the Boston Bomber. If reddit really does begin to filter out posts it deems to be 'hateful' or 'harrassing', I don't think the Red Pill has any side barred material that targets individuals, or classes, or even sexes for that matter. The Red Pill is about self-improvement, so I doubt we'll have anything to worry about on the grand scale of the subreddit.

[–]YaBoiTibzz0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Doesn't TRP already have an off-reddit website?

[–]BloodMoney10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly just take it easy Redpill. I would not get worried over possible theories or conspiracies. Even if the decide to make some type of change then o well reddits lost for the interesting sub.

This a big wonderfull internet that has room for Redpill.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wouldn't sweat it.. If they do ban then so what?? It's the internet, reddit isn't top dog anyway. others will pop up

[–]balancespec2-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

OP can we get a source for thie supposed censorship? I call BS, they have coontown and spacedicks, there's no way they're going to clamp down on redpill when they have stuff like that on here.

[–]omrsafetyo-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

The idea that the red pill is being shutdown is a MASSIVE assumption. No one says that anywhere. There is no source on that. OP made a massive leap.

[–]prodigyx0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If you can't see something this obvious coming, then many things in life are going to take you by surprise.

[–]omrsafetyo0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I don't think it's that I'm blind, so much as uninformed. I'm fairly new to this sub. I saw someone reference it, or the members here condescendingly, and got curious as to what it is. I subscribed, but didn't look into it much, but have read a bunch of the posts on my newsfeed. I don't really understand the philosophy yet, and haven't done enough reading, so I'm really just a learning observer at this point, like a jury member should be in court - uninformed, and neutral.

I just stumbled across this: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/time-reddit-dump-red-pill/

Didn't realize that was happening, and personally I haven't seen the behavior they describe yet, and I'm sure it's exaggerated to some extent.

I suppose OP's idea is plausible, but I still think he made somewhat of a leap. It seems to me that part of the attitude this sub reinforces includes assertiveness, so to me it's not a leap to assume that OP might take an idea and assert its truth, even without being able to support it.

[–]prodigyx0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Unfortunately it doesn't matter what this sub is actually about. All that matters is the perception of this sub. And reddit sees this sub as a bunch of women-haters.

4chan has been destroyed by SJWs (like literally destroyed, Moot said fuck it and just up and left). This was accomplished by bringing in a large number of new mods. The same thing has happened here on reddit. It is only a matter of time before this sub is destroyed in one way or another.

[–]JerfFoo-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Suggesting the Reddit will sink itself is hilarious. /r/TheRedPill is a niche community, most people will never notice it's gone.

[–]balancespec2-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

This will be the death of Reddit.

I don't think it will happen, people would leave in droves.

[–]1xwm8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

No, most of reddit won't care. The only people that will care are the people directly affected by it, and maybe a few people who understand the implications.

TRP will find a new home, one that is more stable. More people will flock to see 'the shit that got a sub banned' and we'll get a few more subscribers.

Nothing else will change. Unless they ban more subs. In which case reddit will die by inches. Which they won't let happen. So they won't ban any others.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one actually reads the sidebar and complains about it. They just cherry pick the occasional fringe idiot, or hear someone say something about TRP they just made up and take it at face value.

This sub doesn't disparage women in any way, it doesn't blame women, it's not about women, it's about men and how to stop being a weak modern western man. TRP realizes you can't change women's nature, but it's the acknowledgment of this nature that pisses off the rest of reddit the most.

People hate this subreddit more than anything. More than the most racist vile places on the internet. It's insanity.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRP is one of the most despised subs, if not the most universally despised sub on reddit. The difference between this and a hate sub is while both espouse unpopular opinions, one of them makes logical sense. There is nothing more dangerous and therefore hated than an intellectual opponent you might lose a debate to.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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