Most people in new social situations feel an obligation to keep speaking, even if it’s clear silence would be better. Taking a step back to observe social interactions will make your game much stronger than the guy who vomits words everywhere.
Starting out
In almost all social situations involving a sexual dynamic, men overshare. They brag about anything they think will impress a woman. In interviews, men tend to ramble on about logical reasons they’re qualified. In these situations, the less you say, the better. It’s not about quantity, it’s about quality. Think of the times you’ve been impressed by conversation- these wordsmiths just know what to say. It’s not drawn out. It’s concise and makes you think.
People who say less, but say impactful things, come off as genuine and intelligent. This is incredibly intoxicating for women, and generates interest from men. One of the ways I honed in for daygaming and improving my conversational skills was sitting in coffee shops and just observing. I watched dates that went well, and dates that went up in flames.
The common theme to the dates that went well was the way in which the men would engage their dates. They all had laid back demeanors, open body language, and weren’t saying rehearsed lines or themes. They opened with a few probing questions: ”I noticed you have a dog shaped keychain, are animals your passion?” *”You’re in great shape, do you lead fitness classes?” ”I’ve always gone with a black coffee. Where should I start with cappuccinos?”
The reason these openers generated success was the fact that it engaged discussion that required thought right off the bat. There was no hidden agenda. Just a curious thought provoking observation. Most guys mess up by using the court jester approach. They use some rehearsed gimmick. The dynamic of the jester approach is reactionary. The jester is looking for instant validation to their routine. They base their entire conversation off of this validation. This prevents the jester from ever really leading the conversation anywhere. It also leads to the jester over-sharing and giving up too much too soon in order to keep his routine going.
Why the simple openers led to a better conversation dynamic
Take for example the openers I listed above. A girl might respond that yes, they love animals. They’ve always loved being in shelters, ect. While they’re sharing all of this, they’re giving you easy ways to keep the conversation flowing without saying much. For example, one might say *”where do you see this passion going?” When the woman finishes up answering the probing question. Again, they’ll continue sharing. And again, all you need to do is use a simple little conversational bridge to keep things flowing while observing.
Should the script flip, answering with short but direct responses is your best way to keep things in your control. Should they ask you probing questions, such as what’s your passion, keep it brief. It’s not so much what you say here, it’s how you say it. For me, I might say “I love rock climbing,” while holding eye contact and imagining myself fucking her. Guaranteed tingle bomb.
Purposeful silences are a great tool
You don’t need to spit out a response right away. Take a second, hold eye contact until she breaks it, then say something. Your non verbal communication is a lot more important when building attraction.
Watch stand-up comics who kill it
Improvisation is the duct tape of conversational skill. Stand up comics are masters of this. Watch any good routine, and you’ll see how adept they are at switching and adapting at the drop of a hat.
You need to practice
Observe for a while first, like I did, then go practice. Conversation is a skill like anything else. The more you use it, the better you get.
Good post. I'll add a bit to the response you give when asked a question like "what's your passion". Being direct and to the point in your answer is good but conversation is a two sided street. Being direct and not leaving a hook at the end will shut down the flow and she'll be left trying to "lead" the flow again.
Answering in a way that ends with a reverse question about her interest or leaving a hook into the next flow is better. Ex ending your answer with a statement that builds on your answer or probes her to go into details in a relating topic is probably better for the flow than just shutting it down with a direct answer.
Solid. I couldn’t agree more- still improving myself
I like to ignore something that they said and then come back to it later if there is a dry spot in the conversation. It could be something in common.. For example, if you're a musician and they try to qualify themselves by saying they like the same type of music you play, don't just light up like a Christmas tree and throw them a big compliment and start naming bands you think she will like. Wait a little bit and bring it back up casually. It's more powerful if you ask a specific detail from something she said and she didn't think you were listening. She'll be more comfortable then
That is a fantastic idea / spin on rapport. It’s like you’re adding ammo to the arsenal. My friend your idea needs more upvotes.
It's a decent frame technique. You are not being lead by every whim and it appears to the other that you have been paying attention. It will take practice if your memory isn't good, but it's a life skill.
What's fun is sometimes they'll forget they even mentioned it bc they remember the things you reacted to and not as much what they have said
It's called opening threads and I love that shit. It's what makes the game so good.
Sometimes you can plant seeds in a conversation by using threads. For example, "Yeah the new Avengers movie was good, but the ending sucked. I still haven't seen Spider Man I'm going to watch that tonight", then cut the conversation to talking about drinks, or travel, or your friends, or whatever. Then 1-2 hours later as you hit buying temperature let the girl know you're heading home to watch a movie and it all clicks.
+1 for the eye fucking part. Why I think it's a massive attraction generator is because you are not shying away from eye fucking her. That shows you're comfortable in your skin and confident enough to eye fuck her. Most men can't hold eye contact, let alone eye fuck them. Holding strong eye contact and eye fucking needs awareness, confidence that you know what you're doing. You are showing he a teaser of what's to come if she were to get in bed. You'd be that true alpha who can show her a good time, and there's no way one can fake it while maintain strong eye contact, eye fucking, and smirking. You can't feel low value and execute this. You gotta believe you are high value enough to pull this off, and guess what, the girl will follow your lead.
So much this!! Eye contact is everything and especially if she breaks it first.
It seems like im the only one who has never had eye contact issues
Practice practice practice, my dude
As a consequence from OP's post:
If a girl ever says "Oh, look at me, only talking about myself" – it's a good sign, she's attracted to you.
If a girl ever says "I know nothing about you!" – it's a good sign, she's attracted to you.
If a girl ever says "I can't figure you out" – it's a good sign, she's already yours.
Fuck I ha a girl say the second thing but didnt f close. I panicked and went beta. What would be the best reply to something like this?
“What would you like to know?”
hahahaha IDK, like, what do you do?
“That’s a little vague, do you mean for work? Hobbies?”
haha um like hobbies and stuff
“I love (insert hobby), have you tried it?”
lol no
“Give it a whirl, it’s a blast. Shame you haven’t been able to try it. It doesn’t seem like you get much time to try things, what’s been holding you back?”
Hahahaha! Not every interaction must end in sex, and there's much more to social interactions than merely "being beta" or "acting alpha", don't oversimplify things to such degree, my brother.
As to the response – you can give out a bit of information, but definitely keep the mystery vibe. Something like "Maybe there's just nothing to know?" will make her invest more into conversation most of the time. Common response I get after such phrases is "come on, I want to know you better" or "nooo, there is, you just don't want to tell".
Either way, don't get too excited and definitely do not try to memorize different openers, comebacks and pickup lines. You have to internalise an attitude and learn to keep frame first – and the knowledge will soon follow.
This is a great post, have you tried it in the field?
LOL see what I did there?
Seriously though, the less you speak the less chance you have of saying something stupid. And in today's world of constant butthurt, that's a good thing.
Didn’t read the whole post, but I agree with the headline already. One main point in the classic “How to Win Friends and Influence People” by Dale Carnegie says that people like to talk about themselves. So, hold back your own tendency to do so and let them talk. Also wait 3 secs after they finish a statement before you start to speak. There’s a psychology today article on that one. It builds charisma. Never interrupt.
I want to see two people, who are both using the same concept from the book, try and converse with each other.
Well I think the reverse is much worse, I've had many conversations back in the day where both just speak and never listen at all. Sometimes the two try to speak about different subjects so what they talk about is totally different, they just wait for the other person to shut up so that they can say the words they want to say. It's just pathetic and beyond rude
I'd say at some point one would realize that the other is actually giving space for someone talk about himself and so eventually they'd open up the same(that is, if they aren't completely socially retarded and hell bent on following the "strategy" like a machine).
"Just be a good listener bruh"
This shit simply doesn’t work. Others, especially women, prefer taking to giving. Virtually every popular man is very extroverted, loud and often can’t shut up to save his life.
Maybe this is true in high school... but grown women want some mystery. Talking about yourself and giving away too much information is very unattractive. OP is spot on- get her talking about her favorite subject... herself
You don't have to be talking all about yourself, you just have to be talking.
Of course you have to hold a con, but I’ve found success getting them to talk ... by asking questions, negging a little... push and pull. I gamed a woman today by paying attention to her body language... that is big to. We were talking sone, and I observed that she had turned her feet towards the door. The direction of her feet usually tells a lot- so, I immediately mirrored her and actual started moving towards the door: I made fun of her shoes a little, and then as we were walking she started to get flirty, and then she brought up the subject of sex, which is usually a great indicator... oh, and she held stron eye contact, and I could see her pupils dilating
The point is, it’s an art, and there are many factors to consider. You have to be like water and just go with the flow. But, stay in your own frame- that is key. It’s not as simple as keep talking or let her talk. A lot of other factors must be observed in order to get good at it.
ding ding ding
You just need a bunch of material saved up. I've heard my father-in-law tell the same eight stories a hundred times.
Sometimes I feel bad about repeating the same good stories between one circle of friends. I have a fear they'll find out I just said the same shit to everybody.
I agree with you.
For instance, when I was meeting women online, I'd use the same canned material, over and over and over. You could literally put me on a date with someone I didn't know whatsoever, and I could fill up 90 minutes with my canned bullshit.
One of my worst dates of all time, was when I picked up a girl at her place, and then we got stuck in a traffic jam for THREE FUCKING HOURS. First off, I blew through all my material. Second, we sat there for nearly two hours, saying nothing.
She was a complete and total airhead, she had nothing to say.
Road trips can really be a "litmus test" for whether you can work things out long-term, because if you can tolerate someone for eight hours in a car, you're golden.
I only works if you pepper the conversation with comments that keep the fire burning so to speak.
One thing charismatic men have in common is that they lead the conversation.
No leading--no charisma.
Putting comments every now and then is still "boring", no matter how good you are at it.
I personally tend to talk too much, I lead conversations naturally. I always feel that if I talked less many of my interactions would go smoother. On the other hand, the grass is always greener.
No, it can. Most times I enjoy asking questions to get to know guys better. However, there's a point where they're trying too hard to glorify themselves and it's no longer helpful information. Trying to list off accomplishments is a dead end without any real place for a conversation to go. I enjoy learning more about people, but trying to just make themselves look better they are, it's quite tiresome.
The 2nd paragraph in “starting up” hit right in the spot.
My teachers always say that I’m really silent in class, but when i say something it contributes a lot to the lesson.
Maybe i should use it in other situations other than class.
The less you say the better. Be comfortable with silence and let the girl get nervous. It will work in your favour.
Watching (not just listening to) podcasts has been game-changing. Especially one with comedians. They are masters of not only conversation, but funny. I come out of every one feeling more confident in my improvision/timing/humor etc. Making people genuinely laugh is an easy way to get them to like you.
Do you have any recommendations? For the podcasts?
“I noticed you have a dog shaped key chain? Are animals your passion?” Could be really creepy lolol
This opener template is extremely terrible and robotic.
Well said. I agree, a huge problem I witness (and am guilty of myself) is oversharing. In fact I was at a party and a girl asked me about my career path. Thinking she genuinely gave a fuck, I started to explain my whole game plan. Her energy changed, as soon as she knew she could have the answer, she lost attention. I learned that same lesson then and there.
Props for giving actionable steps to start applying the concept immediately.
She lost interest because she didn't like the path you were on
It could have been that she didn't know how to lead the conversation after you finished.
Why does every damn man on this subreddit rock climb
Great full body workout, you have to generally be in good physical shape to excel & enjoy it, and if you keep at it you develop a ridiculous physique. Plus it's a lot of fun.
I’m a climber too, so your points aren’t exactly news to me hahaha. I would expect to see more swimmers/gymnasts/dancers/martial artists in general though. And I’d argue it’s not exactly a great full body workout, largely just lats core and legs/arms. Plus it kinda gets in the way of lifting as you can’t really replace a specific gym day with it.
That being said, it’s stupid fun and has a great culture.
within a sub of dudes? I would expect to see more runners, hikers/backpackers & people who play recreational sports like basketball.
I know guys irl who do those three and absolutely swim in pussy. All those disciplines build great physique, unlike running, basketball, and hiking (which you should do not for fitness reasons but more for mental health and nature appreciation reasons).
I'm sure that's true, just not very common. Regarding your analysis of hiking not being related to fitness, couldn't disagree more. Try a 30 mile backpacking trip through the Adirondack mountains and tell me that isn't incredible for physical development.
I do 50lb+ weighted day hikes every weekend on the steepest terrain around (north jersey). Trust me, I’m very familiar with the physical development that comes with hiking. It helps build leg strength, joint stability, balance, and back strength. But it doesn’t do much for physique, and the mental aspect of it is far more important. Being in tune with nature, the world, and yourself is invaluable. Keeps your ego in check when you’re hiking through the mountains and haven’t seen anyone in miles, and you’re reminded how small you are in the grand scheme of things. It’s also a fantastic time for personal development through psychedelics.
I don't.
I'm more of a walker.
Reminds me of the bit from Pulp Fiction movie.
Mia: Don’t you hate that?
Vincent: What?
Mia: Uncomfortable silences. Why do we feel it’s necessary to yak about bullshit in order to be comfortable?
Vincent: I don’t know. That’s a good question.
Mia: That’s when you know you’ve found somebody special. When you can just shut the fuck up for a minute and comfortably enjoy the silence.
This is very spot on. I've had dates where all the girl does is talk my ears off and I just give her quedtions and occassional glimpses into my life. You don't even come off as quiet, you come off as a "good conversationalist", the girl will feel more comfortable around you and she'll sometimes even throw a "wow, I've never opened up this fast to a guy before". It's all because of the combination of good conversation, attraction and being laid back.
This is a good post.
I work in a field that is all about this style.
It's the art of getting people to talk about themselves, in a way where they are thinking about themselves.
It's difficult to explain, but you can angle your questions in a way which makes it seem like you know something about them they don't.
You get them to explore themselves in a way where they identify something they didn't think of before. Because you probed it, they feel like you had some wisdom about them.
Really, you just asked the questions. They provided their own answers, they just wouldn't have answered if it hadn't been for the questions.
Do less, and get people to think about, explore and challenge themselves.
After a while, you get good at just letting them open up and seeing where it goes.
Insightful post right there.
On the other hand, many people consider silence to be autist, creepy, doormat, incel, all kinds of negative.
But the truth is. It dont matter what you do - it matters HOW you do it.
The court jester approach is probably used when someone isn't as quick witted and wants a fall back plan for having at least something to say, like a canned opener. If anything I find myself struggling with learning to speak at all rather than speaking less, finding ANYTHING to say seems like a step up
I'm not really getting the point of it. Like, how does this thing apply in a date situation? Talking less would result cringy, and you'll come off as boring imo
It's not so much that you're talking less, but she's talking more. She may be dominating the conversation, but you're the one leading it. She prattles on about whatever, while you come off as engaging, BUT you should actively listen to find something to continue the conversation, otherwise you'll hit stops when you could've easily transitioned into something else smoothly.
It's not about having to spit game line after line like you're following a script, but holding frame and recognizing when shit tests are sprinkled into an organic conversation, passing them, then re-engaging. Shit, even if theres a rapport break and there's an awkward silence, if she initiates the convo again, you're solid because internally/psychologically, she wanted to talk to you. Just be wary of any breaks, as the first one to speak may run the risk of fumbling over a topic to re-engage. Better her than you, but if the convos good, you shouldn't have any worries.
Although you do speak less, what you say carries more weight, so don't overextend yourself as you give her more info for her to either cut or keep you.
Reel in too fast, and the fish keeps fighting; give it a lil slack and the fish keeps biting.
Nice at least there's one thing on here that I do naturally
Good read thanks brother👍🏻
Title was great until the "to build attraction" part.
Her: What's your passion ?
Me: Climbing an old hare's patch.
"There's not a word in the dictionary as powerful as a well timed pause" Mark Twain
Just get em drunk AF then smash. If you've been lifting, you should be cool
Why are you even on this sub
Knock it the fuck off.