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Jammerjamhams
[–]Transmigratory107 points108 points109 points 4 years ago (75 children) | Copy Link
False accusations destroy lives too.
[–]robogart21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agreed
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link
It does, but the rate is low.
[–]goldmedalflower29 points30 points31 points 4 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link
the rate is low
So what? Doesn't change a single point
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
Depends. The false allegations that do occur do ruin lives, but they're often brought up as though they're a common occurence.
[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
More common than rape, if you count social accusations.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link
Like I said in other comments, claiming rape is social/economical suicide. Very few want to shoulder that when it's true, and way less when there's nothing to gain. Less common than rape by a huge margin.
[–]shinypants1171 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
How is claiming rape social/economical suicide if you claim rape everyone will support you and and want to help you some women have claimed rape to get attention from friends or guys they liked some have claimed it to try and get ahead claiming rape has more benefits then drawbacks
Notice i said claiming i know BEING raped can have an effect on you that can murder your social and professional life maybe thats where people get this idea but its not the way people react to your claim its the damage of the rape itself despite all the people trying to help you
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
It's also how people react, too. People aren't nearly as supportive as you think they are for rape victims. The damage from the rape is also a severe factor for a number of reasons.
[–]shinypants1170 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I have never seen someone react negatively towards a women who says she's been raped or seen a women professional carreer harmed by claiming she's been raped the worst ive seen is some ppl not believing her claim thats the worst of it
Women often don't even get punished if its proven ger claim is false i dont see her getting punished for making a claim
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think you downplay how important having people believe in you can be, and having those around you call you a liar is incredibly destructive when dealing with rape. That, also, is just the tip of the iceburg. Accusers also experience literal threats on their lives. Look at Christine Ford. She received death threats and was relocated for safety. Accusers get isolated from friends who find their accusation shameful, embarrassing, or otherwise some negative term. It can even affect job opportunities or current employment. And, after all that, it doesn't even often lead to an arrest. Even being accused of rape isn't even necessarily a life-ruiner. Some accused just literally go on with no negative consequences. My girlfriends rapist, for example, experienced literally zero consequences whereas she dealt with so much harrassment by her and his families that she had a mental breakdown. They also accused her of being mentally unstable and threatened to have her children taken away. There's seemingly an infinite number of stories that accusers tell of the tragedy they experience when reporting. This also ignores the doubt, disbelief, and lack of care or compassion that come from the police themselves in the face of a report.
[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
Rapes are proven false three times as often as they are proven true.
[–]LatchNessMonster14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I’m going to have to see a source before I’d believe that, for sure. I could see “rapes are unable to be proven true,” which is not the same thing as “proven to be false”
[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Your assumption doesn't even make any sense, given the numbers I presented.
Either way, I was going off of the FBI statistics. 6 8 percent proven false after investigation and 2 percent that lead to conviction. Of course, that doesn't count the deluge of false rape claims that are thrown out the same day they are made.
[–]insultin_crayon3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
And why do you think that is? It is very difficult to prove a rape happened, hence the 2% conviction rate (you did not post a link to your sources, so I’m inclined to believe you are falsifying the numbers). Either way, a low conviction rate is not indicative of high false accusations. A low conviction rate is indicative of a crime that is difficult to prove.
[–]AndiSLiuNAHALT-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Would you perhaps be conflating 'proven false' with 'insufficient evidence for proving to be true'?
[–]Jaktenba3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If it was
insufficient evidence for proving to be true'
It would be FAR FAR FAR more than just twice as much. It's like 90% of sexual assault claims that can't be proven one way or the other.
[–]TheWhitestOrca2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You don’t prove something false. You either prove that it happened, or there’s no punishment. That’s why the vast majority of rapes never get convictions.
[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Bullshit.
[–]OatsGYOWMGTOW4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Sorry, you are right.
It is four times as often.
[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Utterly bullshit. Show me your source on this, because you are talking out of your arse.
[–]canuckpuckbeaut0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Going to a school where ‘rape culture’ is seen as a thing, I’ve heard of more false accusations than actual rape cases.
[–]Domain_0f_Struggle0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Have you not heard the saying, I would have 3 guilty men walk free, the to lock up an innocent men. It exist for a reason. A man's life can be ruin at the mere accusation, and the woman will go Scott free if she is caught lying. This is backwards.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
The life of the accuser is not "scot-free", and the saying is absurd as well. Three guilty rapists who have become rapists after robbing autonomy, dignity, and safety from their victims will then go on to repeat their crime, resulting in more suffering. I'd rather have a system that succeeds but occasionally places an innocent behind bars than is so lenient that multiple guilty offenders walk and re-commit. You don't suffer more to protect less. That logic is backwards.
[–]Domain_0f_Struggle2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
You can barely count on one hand "victims" of sexual assault, that were charged when they were found to be liars. No your logic is backs , its a hypothetical, and if you even consider that an innocent person should suffer an any situation, then guess what you probably just created another criminal.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
But what about the innocent people affected by the actions of the guilty parties? You're putting one above many. You can't focus on the innocence of one and ignore the rest. Here, let me give you a better argument:
Going to prison is going to prison is going to prison. It's unchangingly bad with long-term repercussions. Crime, however, is not crime is not crime. Having some pills isn't the same as rape, which isn't shoplifting, which isn't murder, etc. You get the drill. What constitutes "guilty" is just an infraction of one or more rules set in place. The life of an innocent person imprisoned wrongfully would generally be considered worse off than three petty theft offenders walking, but it's never that simple. If, for example, someone stole my folding phone case I use as a wallet, it would literally ruin my life. I'd fail to do my job today, breaching contract, strongly risking being fired. From that, I'd be driven heavily into debt and I'd lose my vehicle. I'd also lose my home, phone, schooling, everything. My life would be in shambles all from one theft. While not stigma'd like an imprisoned person, is not my suffering meaningful? And what about those lives I interact with who suffers when I do? Now, this is three times over (since it's three people walking). The total amount of suffering, the lives rocked and ruined, are they more or less than the one imprisoned? The imprisoned person, too, has lives that are impacted when his/hers goes badly. However, does it outweigh the aforementioned three?
It's not just as simple as "innocent man behind bars worse than three guilty walking" because so many more lives are involved.
[–]Domain_0f_Struggle0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Tl;dr.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nice.
[–]Transmigratory4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link
You can't say that with absolute certainty.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
That's a meaningless statement. No one can say anything with absolute certainty. However, we can use statistics to see it, and other people have done this. https://psmag.com/news/false-reports-of-sexual-assault-are-rare-but-why-is-there-so-little-reliable-data-about-them
There's a pdf link I wanted to send, but I honestly don't know how on a phone. It's a pdf from the National Sexual Violence Research Centre on false rape allegations. Often conflated to be higher because cases lacking evidence or other such issues leading to an inconclusive case gets grouped in.
Edit: current rate seems to be roughly 6ish percent.
[–]istira_balegina7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link
False. 6 percent are proven false cases, not false accusations, which no one knows how prevalent they are.
Please stop being a part of the problem.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Did you read the link and see the other? They specifically talk about false accusations. You can't just appeal to ignorance and say I'm wrong because we don't know every tiny fact and detail. As it stands, it's roughly 6%.
[–]istira_balegina4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
Hahahaha ignorance masquerading as fact.
By your logic, only 2 percent are true, because that's how many result in convictions.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
No, that's not what I said, either. At all. Just because you disagree doesn't make it false or fake. Like I said, I posted one link, referenced the other (as I couldn't figure out how to share the link). Make sure to check it out.
[–]istira_balegina11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Ok, let me explain this to you, because you apparently think you know what you're talking about based on a magazine link and not even the original study.
This magazine is propaganda. Fake news. Full stop. Here's what it says:
What we do know is this: False reports are rare, ranging from 2 to 10 percent of all reported sexual assaults. This figure comes from a commonly cited 2010 study, published in the peer-reviewed international journal Violence Against Women. This meta-analysis evaluated more than 20 previous studies and concluded that most misrepresent the rate of false reporting by not accounting for police departments' mistakes. (The researchers also conducted their own study, based on 10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.) "The greater the scrutiny applied to police classifications, the lower the rate of false reporting detected," study author David Lisak writes. "Cumulatively, these findings contradict the still widely promulgated stereotype that false rape allegations are a common occurrence.
Ok. There it is. Now, here's the fake news part where gullible people like you swallow propaganda whole to justify your fantasies about how you prefer your world to be, not how it is.
The study cited, by David Lisak, defines false accusations differently than the article.
Lisak defines it as: a report made to police that the police later prove to be false.
The vast majority of cases, where there is inconclusive evidence either way, is not defined as false. This accounts for almost 90% of cases. We simply dont know if they are false or not.
This shit magazine, thinking you're too stupid to read and understand the original study (they're right about that) deceived you into believing that false reports means all cases where an accuser lied about rape. That is simply false and was never the intention of the study. But you believed it, so, hey, the propaganda worked.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
And that's where you fill the gap with your own agenda, yeah. I've read the report as well. As it stands, the information we have suggests a high rarity of false rape claims, period. We have what we currently have. You can't just appeal to ignorance and think you have something. You're on the basis that women are just manipulative and cunning villians rather than just normal human beings. There is an obvious inherent difficulty in rape claims, but just being on the assumption that they're just lying more and we can't prove it is itself absurd.
Do you have any other statistics to bring here? Like I said, this is what we have, and this is what we should be going by. Don't try to fill the gap of information with a fear that women lie about rape often. Considering how frequently women are berated, assaulted, killed, fired, publicly smeared, etc., it'd be considered economical/social suicide to come forward to tell the truth. It'd also be that much harder to shoulder that burden just to get one over. People do it, but they are rare as it'd take an exceptional person to think that worthwhile, or they'd have an exceptionally supportive network to protect them from the almost certain hostility.
[–]I-wanna-GO-FAST5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Even if we take every word in that article to be true, it still doesn't even attempt to account for rape accusations that were not made to the police, but instead to employers or universities. Getting fired or kicked out of school ruins lives too, and it's much easier to unjustly punish someone that way since standards of evidence for accomplishing those things aren't as high.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I can get behind that. Even still, the point was that it's not as high as it's often spun to be. Someone just spent time highlighting that there's a lot of other claims and cases that go nowhere, and that there could be more false rape claims in it. I get that, but it takes an already unstable person to risk so much just to get one over on someone. Not only is there now a stigma on the unfortunate person on which the false claim was made, but now there's a stigma on the accuser, too. We don't have all the information yet, but I'd confidently wager that if we could solve those cases, the rate of false claims wouldn't change.
I should've been more clear in the initial post, but I've just been doing other things while browsing reddit, and just decided to drop a quickie here.
For those people who do suffer from false claims, I'd wish for justice, but the social damage is almost unfixable. People don't let go, and they'll bring up any smear just for the damaging factor, even if it's misleading. Which, of course, is the topic at hand.
[–]Transmigratory1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Plz no cringy bloop citation of statistics with improper usage completely drained of critical thinking whilst being laced with intellectual dishonesty!!! That statement isn't meaningless, I made that statement in anticipation of what you were inevitably going to do.
You deduced 6%ish based on the link you sent and a PDF you didn't supply (upload it somewhere and link it)
Let's look at your link:
"But the one study that Stephens cites here—which relies on limited data—falls into a familiar trap among attempts to quantify false reports: failing to contextualize the federal government's often-unreliable data.
Contrary to popular belief, there is no evidence that false rape reports drastically exceed those of other crimes—in fact, many researchers argue there is no clear academic consensus on false rape reports' prevalence, period. Recent studies have critiqued the literature on this subject for using unreliable data or unscientific methodologies.
What we do know is this: False reports are rare, ranging from 2 to 10 percent of all reported sexual assaults. This figure comes from a commonly cited 2010 study, published in the peer-reviewed international journal Violence Against Women. This meta-analysis evaluated more than 20 previous studies and concluded that most misrepresent the rate of false reporting by not accounting for police departments' mistakes. (The researchers also conducted their own study, based on 10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent. ")**The greater the scrutiny applied to police classifications, the lower the rate of false reporting detected,**" study author David Lisak writes. "Cumulatively, these findings contradict the still widely promulgated stereotype that false rape allegations are a common occurrence." "
Your 6% appears to be derived from the "10 years of reports at a single university—rare for a field that relies on Federal Bureau of Investigation data—putting the rate of false reporting at just under 6 percent.)". Is the data at said single university going to give us a completely accurate picture? And the study author is a mess.
On one hand, he says that the greater scrutiny applied to police classifications results in LOWER RATES of false reports being detected. On the other hand, he says that false accusations can't be common.
The section where you got your 6% even says it doesn't account for police departments' mistakes. And the meta analysis looks at 20 studies in an area that academics on the subject matter have criticised for using unreliable data or unscientific methods...
Emily Moon, the writer, pointed these things out then still went on to overlook these things (like you seem to have) and just said "false accusations aren't common". When really we cannot be sure due to the unreliability of data in this area. Looks like to me that you just found an article, skim read until you found a stat you thought you could cite then proceeded to cite it without regard to the wider context.
Now my comment "you can't say for certain" has even more strength. If this link is representative of the evidence you'll use, then you're purposely being dishonest by claiming there is more certainty than I'm implying. I mean, you didn't even think beyond about the practicalities e.g. some woman accuses a man of rape... what are the chances she'll get caught and how will the police go around catching this lie out when they're investigating the guy? That false accusation would STILL destroy the man's life.
The absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence...
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Honestly, I feel like I addressed this in another comment. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I never at any point said this was the end all, be all study, but it's some of what information we do have on the topic. This, paired with the social/legal/economical ramifications with rape accusations (true or false) do not lend itself to a high rate. Shit, the 6ish percent it suggests is still high to me, but I can believe it. It takes a real dysfunctional person to do something so cruel, but real dysfunctional people exist; they just aren't in any way a large percent.
No matter the percentage, false claims do ruin lives. However, pushing the notion that mose claims are fake will hurt more than hinder. We need more effort and attention on these claims so they can be investigated properly as opposed to being so frequently dismissed. This also means that the accused stay accused without any judicial redemption. It also obviously harms the victims of rape and sexual assault because it further discourages them from coming forward in the first place. This ultimately protects the offender and perpetuates the notion of "fake reports" beyond the low percentages that we currently have.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. The absence of proof for false rape claims being common doesn't mean it doesn't happen. We do have some evidence suggesting otherwise, though. We'll never have perfect information of anything, which is why I said the response was meaningless. We have information to look at, accept the limitations of, and build off of. As it currently stands, statistics and simple logic just don't support the notion that women would commonly commit social/legal/economical (and in some cases, literal) suicide with false claims. It makes sense that only an exceptional crowd would take part in such destructive behaviours, just like only an exceptional crowd take part in various other severe anti-social behaviour. It's just not a rational conclusion to make nor is it worth the risk, and that's the same defeating set of risks that deter sex assault victims. It's that much harder for the liars. The absence of evidence is on the side that asserts common occurence of false claims. Just saying something exists doesn't mean it exists because we can't 100% prove it doesn't. By that logic, we could say that any and every claim is true because it can't be proven otherwise.
Sorry for the book, trying to cover all thoughts while having an irl convo. Dealing with a lot.
[–]Transmigratory0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
We both agree on my initial premise (false claims ruin lives).
This isn't an easy topic to research hence all the data is somewhat unreliable. We just weight the data differently.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Fair enough.
[–]Transmigratory0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
So I must ask... what point were you trying to make in your initial reply?
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Not going to lie, idr what the initial comment was, and backtracking with the phone while tired is hell.
Edit: It was just a fast boop in response. The picture seems too easy to validate the absurd notion that false rape claims are high and common. While false rape accusations can ruin lives (not an always thing), and while false claims are a problem, it is (to the best we can see with the information that exists and basic reasoning) a rare event. I'll be the first to admit that basic reasoning isn't a 1:1 for raw fact, but it can help point us in some directions for the time being. Honestly, didn't expect such big responses from anyone at all.
[–]khaste0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
So just because the rate of something is low means we shouldnt be worrying about it?
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Shouldn't parade it like it's the common outcome.
[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Source?
Fake news.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No?
[–]kurogomatora0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Sharks kill people at an incredibly low rate and we are all still terrified so??
[–]AndiSLiuNAHALT1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Defamation of Mass Destruction.
[–]Filthy_Stuff_G0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for saying!
[–]762RiflemanNeither58 points59 points60 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Just gonna watch and wait...
[–]robogart14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Observe... adapt... overcome!!!
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer58 points59 points60 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm old and when I read posts by these young guys who assume all women want to be slapped, choked, etc., during sex ... you know, if some guy tried that with me, without discussing it first and giving me the chance to say "Oh hell no," I'd probably feel pretty violated. Even if I had consented to the sex itself.
I think the bottom line is that if you're having sex with people you barely know, there's a higher potential for things to go awry. You probably don't know what they like or not, or if there are things that trigger them. There is some value to getting to know people before hopping in the sack, especially now when people seem to be more litigious than they were back in the day. You kids be careful, OK?
[–]Crazy_ManMan 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Consenting to vanilla sex is not consenting to any random kink. They key here is communication, just ask if they are okay with things before sex or at the very least before doing it to them. When in doubt talk it out. It does not have to be awkward or ruin the mood if you do it in a sexy confident way, and lying about something or intentionally withholding information you believe is important to them to get them to agree to sex is also not consent. Also pay attention to body language if sex is going great and they suddenly get all tense and seem uncomfortable in some way, just ask if they are okay and ask if they want you to stop. Maybe it is just me but I feel like making sure the other person is comfortable and enjoying the experience the whole time is important. Also aftercare is another important factor, make sure they feel safe and comfortable after going through any kink that may have caused some sort of discomfort to them.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
They key here is communication,
I agree.
[–]Crazy_ManMan0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Communication is a very common problem I see all over the place, in sexual/romantic relationships, among friends and family and strangers, just in general people seem to have a hard time with good communication skills, which I find surprising as I have found having good communication skills is probably one of the most valuable social tools and is something I have worked hard to perfect.
[–]ashaw74 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
You see what you did there? The whole point of the PSA for women was to take a common narrative telling men how to be good but denying any accountability to women and flip it over. Your advice may be given using gender neutral language but who is it really aimed at? I can't think of any men who have sued women or filed police complaints after a night including casual sex. So essentially you are telling men to only sleep with women within a relationship because the threat of having your life ruined over someone else's feelings of regret is really only for men. You might as well have changed it back to that add where jack and jill are both drunk and they have sex, and jack is guilty of rape because jill couldn't consent.
[–]oct0_t1t0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You ignored the part where Jill didn’t consent to being choked and hit. She only agreed to the sex part. If Jill starts fingering Jack’s asshole, he didn’t consent to that, only the sex part
[–]ashaw70 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, lets just add the hypothetical things to move the goalpost. That way the hypocrisy of the poster I referred to is lost.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
So essentially you are telling men to only sleep with women within a relationship because the threat of having your life ruined over someone else's feelings of regret is really only for men.
Are women going around slapping and choking men without warning, though? If so, I wasn't aware of that.
[–]ashaw70 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
There you go again. You just can't get ma wahman out of your head. You can't leave a PSA for women that way, just have to find some way to point it at men.
I don't know how common that is for guys to do without warning. You want to provide stats since it is apparently on the rise?
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
just have to find some way to point it at men.
You were the one who said, in effect, that men are the only ones who have to worry about their lives being ruined because their sex partner feels regret.
Could this be the case because only men are hitting and choking their partners? If women aren't doing these things, it follows that they don't have to worry about a partner taking offense.
If a man was hit or choked by a woman without his consent and decided to cry foul over it, I'd support him the same way I'd support a female victim under those circumstances. The gender makes no difference to me -- that shit ain't cool AFAIC.
What exactly is your point? Is it that men also do shitty things to women? Everyone knows that men are capable of harming women. My O.P. Is to trun around the narrative because of the blind spot people have in regards to women harming men.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
slapped
Even light butt slaps are violating? I mean, there are kinks (and choking is one) and there are pretty harmless things that usually are not discussed.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
If we're joking around and I'm walking past my boyfriend and my he playfully slaps me on the ass, I'm not going to have a meltdown; obviously he's just goofing around. Something that is done in a funny or joking context is OK. Outside of that, no, I'm not down with it. I was hit enough when I was a kid to last me the rest of my life, I guess. I don't find it sexy or appealing at all. On the flip side I can't even imagine wanting to slap or choke my partner, or what goes through a person's head that would make them want to do such a thing. Eww, yuck.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
We were talking about sex.
I know butt slaps are considered sexual, so when a stranger slaps woman's butt she is gonna think of it as of a sub-rape (not really a rape, but sexual and offensive).
In the context of sex itself it is a very vanilla thing.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I guess I don't want to think about the mental processes that underlie the desire to slap or choke your partner during sex. I find it a bit horrifying, lol.
But, to each his/her own, I guess!
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Idk what is horrifying in light painless slaps. I am just saying it is considered vanilla and just because you find a vanilla thing offensive does not make sex a rape.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
What makes a person want to slap someone, though? To me it's a violent or demeaning act. I don't find that sexy at all. But, once again, YMMV. Not casting shade on anyone else's preferences.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
What makes a person want to slap someone, though?
Well, good butts are pretty pleasant to slap.
And the argument is not whether or not you should find it demeaning. The argument is that since you are an outlier, it is on you to communicate about that.
[–]Willow-girlProud 2 B an American farmer0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thankfully I'm in a LTR and I guess I'm from a generation where that sort of thing wasn't on the standard menu, so I never encountered it "in the wild," lol.
[–]I-IV-I64-V-IAsexual/Aromantic8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No dipshot, random face slaps and hard (aka hand print leaving) slaps to other areas.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This sounds as a kink, yes.
[–]Rebel-10052 points53 points54 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
I was accused of rape once, I talked it over with many of my friends to determine wether or not it was rape. The majority of which said it wasn't. The one who did believe it was rape was actually the most helpful in getting me to understand the other persons perspective. I now understand it was morally grey, but ultimately avoidable.
She could have been more assertive, and I could have been more compassionate.
[–]iLiveInAHologram9413 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think your consideration of it and thinking about how the other person feels and sees things is very compassionate. I hope you both were able to make peace with the situation and possibly each other, and learn from the experience
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I've thought about it a lot over the years, once was enough though. We no longer communicate, part of me thinks she might resent me, part of me thinks she dosen't even remember me. Last I checked shes in a healthy relationship so I'm happy for her.
[–]Throwawayforshitt 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (14 children) | Copy Link
What happened if you dont mind telling it? You can be vague of course
[–]Rebel-1005 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
I went on a date with a girl a met online. She informed me of her sexual inexperience, and how she wasn't a big fan of sex in general. We had talked for several weeks leading to us exchanging nude pictures, and of course the date itself. The date went well, we both abstained from substance use as I was partial to alcohol and she preferred 420. Her friends told her she shouldn't date me because I was honest about the recent death of my at the time girlfriend, but also jokingly coaxed her into putting my name in her phone as "Dick Appointment."
When we got back to my place, I don't really recall setting up the mood, or pretending like we were there to watch Netflix or something. I believe I just moved right into heavy petting and kissing. I would make attempts at touching her under her clothes, and she would use her hands to rebuff me, but with minimal force. She 100% did say "No." and "Stop," but it was her tone that made me believe it was still consensual. She used what I would describe as a "bed room voice." Because she never took a hard line " I mean it!" or "If you don't stop I'm going to hate you." I believed it to be a bi-product of slut shaming, I felt she wanted it but didn't want to be judged. It also felt like we were playing at this almost role play esque dominance for power.
I pinned her arms down, so she couldn't prevent me from taking her clothes off. There were clumsy moments we're I needed both hands to take off an article of clothing so I would have to release her pinned arms. Instead I would press my body up against hers to block her hands. When I was finally inside of her, I didn't move, but instead asked "Do you really want me to stop?" To which she replied "No." I wanted her to stay over, but she insisted she had plans. I tried to continue dialogue with her but she got weird. She then accused me of rape, via text message. I replied with something along the lines of "Yeah, Im that much of a piece of shit? I'm a rapist, I guess I'll kill myself then" She retracted her statement because of this.
I thought in a similar manner to this post for a long time, it took an educated person explaining to me the contra points to make me realize, yeah I could have done more. She could have done more as well, to prevent the outcome, but its her job and journey to learn that, I'll just continue to do my part.
[–]WaterOnMyHood 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Yeah that's defo rape
[–]Rebel-1001 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah I tried to paint it fair to both perspectives. Whats dumb is I was actually interested in a relationship with her, it wasn't like I just wanted sex. I guess I was just dumb and fast forwarding to the level of comfortability and familiarity I had in my previous relationship. That relationship definitely impacted me. I was with a victim of sexual assault who based their entire identity around that tragedy. One of the first times we attempted to become intimate, she felt more comfortable being the dom so I was the sub. We had both been drinking, she put me in handcuffs and gagged me. She attempted to mount me, but wasnt wet. So she undid the cuffs and said something along the lines of "Oh well, I guess it wasn't meant to be." Once free I grabbed lube, and basically wrestled her for the position of dom. She was rough, but I liked it. I was close to actually being inside of her and she stopped struggling and said my name, followed by "If you do that I will never forgive you." in an authoritarian tone I stopped immediately.
Sorry to get 50 shades here, but the point is sexual dynamic can be very weird and multi layered, especially in this point in history with highest levels of gender equality. Everything was fine and a game to me when I was in handcuffs and gagged. I didn't feel unsafe, and I enjoyed not having responsibility or having to be the driving force for intimacy. I didn't think when I traded dynamics with her I would make her feel unsafe, and she wouldn't like it. If she wasn't assertive in that moment I probably would have accidentally raped her, and that breaks my heart.
[–]varenimailfile 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
That was rape bro, and I'm not someone that says that lightly
"Yeah, Im that much of a piece of shit? I'm a rapist, I guess I'll kill myself then"
wtf man? Please tell me you are getting some kind of psychological help, this is terrible manipulative behavior even if you didn't rape her
[–]Rebel-1000 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
This was years ago. My intention wasn't to manipulate her into saying I wasn't a rapist. It was said in the heat of the moment out of emotion. If I was a pedophile I would rather kill myself then hurt a child. At the very least volunteer for chemical castration. You think thats insane? Maybe thats the problem with the world then.
[–]varenimailfile 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Threatening to kill yourself is a common manipulation tactic, I’m just responding to the way you phrased it in your post
[–]Rebel-1003 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Rape or not rape depends entirely on her perspective, and not on mine. I should have taken more time to consider her feelings but it was heat of the moment. Have you read street car called desire? Everyone in my college prep class was able to acknowledge the short comings of both Stanly and Blanche and how it lead to a bad circumstance.
Todays society can no longer do that, we have very black and white thinking.
[–]WavesAcross4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Wtf? Baring prior discussion why the hell would you think you had her consent if you had to pin her down to stop her from stopping you?
It also felt like we were playing at this almost role play esque dominance for power.
Except it wasn't role play, you were actually doing this.
She could have done more
She shouldn't have had too.
What you described was definitely rape.
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
See you are the kind of person I have a problem with, you are a utopanist with a bias. You read all of what I said, never picking up any new perspective from the other side, just looking for the things that confirmed your own bias. Ive already admitted it was wrong, but why do you want to rub my nose in it?
Well obviously I didn't use enough force to bruise her delicate victim culture skin, like wise she didn't use any counter force to have the same effect. Did you even read the part about slut shaming? And instead of "No, stop your so bad, Im and innocent girl." how about "I'm feeling uncomfortable with this, can you please stop."
Right my mistake, woman don't have any responsibility to adequately convey consent or the lack there of. It's a mans job souly to interpret them, make sure they don't drink beyond their limits, confirm constantly with that they feel safe, and equal pay, yay feminism.
50 shades of grey has sold 125 million copies, author female, demographic largely female. That book glorifies rape/abuse culture, and you don't have a problem with it. Instead you have a problem with a guy sharing a story about how he was wrong and how he learned from his mistakes. Maybe my mom would have taught me if she wasnt from a generation that it wasnt even acceptable for a woman to be in a mans home under those context, maybe my father would have taught me if he was around. Nope trail and error it is. Sorry.
[–]WavesAcross2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
You read all of what I said, never picking up any new perspective from the other side
Your perspective doesn't matter. You may not have thought in the moment that you weren't raping her, but you were wrong.
Did you even read the part about slut shaming?
Irrelevant. She said no and you had to hold her down. It was rape. If she was both verbally and physically telling you no. So you should have stopped.
Right my mistake, woman don't have any responsibility to adequately convey consent or the lack there of.
She did. She said no and was physically trying to stop you. How is that not enough?
It's a mans job
That a women doesn't express her no in a manner you find sufficient does not give you and excuse to proceed anyways. If she has said no, then yes, it is your job to ask before going any further.
yay feminism.
People like you are exactly why feminists are proponents of things like "teach men not rape" or "No means no" or "enthusiastic consent", because apparently men like you don't get it. If you had held to those rules you wouldn't have raped her. If you honestly think her reluctance might not be sincere then stop and ask. Why is that so difficult?
That book glorifies rape/abuse culture, and you don't have a problem with it.
No. I agree the book is bad, but even there they discuss consent and go over their limits and such. All that said, even if its does promote bad norms, what people fantasize about excuse your behavior. There are safe ways to engage in such play but making an assumption on the part of the other party isn't it.
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You know I'm helping to raise a 6 year old little girl. I may not be the best male role model, but thankfully I don't share the burden alone. I try to help her with some of the issues that will effect her negatively in later life. The biggest one by far is her picky eating. I've done extensive researching trying to figure out how I can get her to eat new foods because her mother has given up and just caters to her food choices. What I found is that the way I'm suppose to handle it is very similar to prom night rape. You know where a horny young guy constantly pressures his high school girlfriend into having sex even though she expresses that she dosen't want to. I'm suppose to hear no a thousand times from this little girl, so that eventually she can say yes and eat some dam broccoli, but I cant stop asking her, and I cant force her either.
Ive incorporated the ideas that I've read about into my own method, Ive made her a food journal were we chronicle all the new food she tries. I usually illustrate the pages, and she colors them in. When she wants things from me I leverage her filling out a new page in her food journal first. I am happy with the results, and even more happy that she's taking on new food options.
Basically, you want to change all of the worlds men to tailor to the needs of the woman, but don't feel that woman need to do anything that they should just be accepted. Thats why I call you a utopianist, and other people online have probably accused you of man hate. Yes I think its harmful to shout "No means no in the streets" like brave warriors, but when its actually happening you wanna use your soft sensual voices? Hello your obviously beings raped, why are you still saying no sensually? Where the fuck is your picket sign?!
Ive already explained to you that no one taught me how not to rape by this generations standards, but you didn't listen. My mother came from a different generation were a woman being in a mans home alone under those context would not have been acceptable behavior. I've also seen my mom being such a strong woman my whole life, very assertive, so a soft no was probably hard for me to comprehend at the time. The only insight she gave me is now harmful to me because its now obsolete and out of touch with times.
Agree, I will teach my son how avoid accidentally raping, and my daughter how to avoid accidentally being raped. If my daughter has intentionally been the victim of rape I hope she does fight back. DNA under her finger nails, scratches on his face, bruising on her wrist so that piece of shit can go to jail. If she was drugged, Toxicology report. If she drank too much and there is no eye witnesses, and her friends abandoned her in the buddy system, empathy, cause thats all I can give her. Enthusiastic consent is a weird one though, like what if the girl is manic, and she's consenting. Shouldn't I wait for her chemical balances to return to normal before she can properly consent? Its almost like it should be treated as a case by case basis.
Have you read 50 shades of grey? Anastasia constantly sets boundaries, grey violates them every time. If woman view that book as sensual and arousing, thats part of the problem. "Woman want to be taken." How are you teaching men not to rape again? Your just promoting 2 conflicting ideas at the same time, and then are mad when men don't have the intellect, emotional intelligences, or insight to understand, I mean most woman probably don't either, sexuality is extremely complex.
Lets go back to psych 101, freud says there is ID and there is Ego. If the ID of a woman says she wants to have sex, but the ego says she dosen't want to be called a slut, she dosen't want to seem easy, she wants to wait longer, what do you think that looks like? It looks half assed in both directions. I'm against slut shaming, I'm against toxic masculinity, and I play by the rules of consent, and worked hard to fully understand them from both perspectives. Unfortunately you didn't ask me why I felt what I did was wrong, or what I learned from it. You attacked me and called me a rapist, and so I defended my self and were back to square 1, thanks fairer sex.
[–]WavesAcross1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
very similar to prom night rape. You know where a horny young guy constantly pressures his high school girlfriend into having sex even though she expresses that she dosen't want to. I'm suppose to hear no a thousand times from this little girl, so that eventually she can say yes and eat some dam broccoli, but I cant stop asking her, and I cant force her either.
Uh, you do realize that in the case of prom night, you can and should stop asking her? Like, I guess they are similar sense that you are pressuring people into doing something they don't want to do, but do you realize that one is bad, and one is okay?
Basically, you want to change all of the worlds men to tailor to the needs of the woman
I haven't said anything about women because I am talking to you and not her. Yes, I would agree it would be good for women to be more explicitly assertive and mature about their desires. However that they fail to does not excuse your rape.
Ive already explained to you that no one taught me how not to rape by this generations standards
So what? I agree you didn't understand that you were raping her. I'm still not sure you understand you were raping her. That doesn't make it not rape.
Its almost like it should be treated as a case by case basis.
Your making progress! Yes, it should. There is no perfect one size fits all rule. You should evaluate it on a case by case basis and do your best to to deal with it with maturity. However in this case, as often will be as a man, more of the onus as is on you. If a women isn't very explicit about her "no" towards your escalation she isn't doing anything to you. If you escalate with out an explicit yes, then you are potentially raping her. So yes, the party escalating bears more responsibility.
Have you read 50 shades of grey? Anastasia constantly sets boundaries, grey violates them every time. If woman view that book as sensual and arousing, thats part of the problem.
No. Its not. Look, for an analogy lots of people LOVE zombie fantasies. Look at all the video games and movies and tv shows. Few people would actually like to be in a zombie situation in real life.
"Woman want to be taken." How are you teaching men not to rape again? Your just promoting 2 conflicting ideas at the same time, and then are mad when men don't have the intellect, emotional intelligences, or insight to understand, I mean most woman probably don't either
Taken != Raped. I agree many people don't have the emotional acuity to deal with sex in a mature manner. The difference is that the if the party not escalating, is not reasonable, and the other party respects their stated "no", then the end result is: Nothing happens. If the party escalating does is not reasonable, the end result is potentially rape depending on if the other party is into it. The ideas aren't in conflict, they can just be tricky to navigate, but if you can't see a clear course then don't proceed. Why is that so difficult to understand?
If the ID of a woman says she wants to have sex, but the ego says she dosen't want to be called a slut, she dosen't want to seem easy, she wants to wait longer, what do you think that looks like?
I agree it can be confusing. But here is a little trick to avoid raping people. If your confused, then don't do it. If your not sure if she actually wants sex or not, then try to be very explicit about it. This shouldn't be very difficult.
Implicitly what you are trying to ask is "How do I have sex if I can't be sure if the women really wants it?". Well the answer is, YOU DON'T. If you can't clearly figure out, either due to your own actions, or that of your partners, whether they really want it, then don't do it.
You attacked me and called me a rapist, and so I defended my self
You shouldn't be defending your self. You should be acknowledging that it was rape. It was not some "morally grey" situation. There was a clear, and obvious thing to do in your story. STOP. You did not.
I have to say, this is the first reply of yours I actually liked, gives me hopes for arguing over the internet with strangers lol, though maybe its only because I've humanized myself in your eyes.
The point of my original post about a man who was unsure of his actions instead of hiding them or writing them off, he questioned a multitude of people about it. Large demographic of both men and woman. Maybe because the people knew me it was harder to imagine the other person feeling treated or coerced by me. One female friend of mine who was a victim of rape, even expressed "Thats not rape, I was raped."
I wrote the post in a manner that captured both perspectives to more easily relate to men who might have thought they were the victims of "Regret rape." I do believe I raped her, and I never said I didn't. Even If I was able to talk to her now and she told me It wasn't rape, I still wouldn't feel right about it.
I already said what adjustments I can, and have made to make sure it never happens again, aka doing my part.
Anecdotally I use to fantasize about being in a zombie apocalypse a lot as a younger man, It's horrible but I really felt I would thrive in a world like this. I felt modern society was strenuous and bureaucratic and really wasn't a place for a person like me. You would maybe not do so well in this type of world, so maybe thats why you believe people would not actually want it, which is actually an example about you putting your perspective as an absolute for everyone.
It's harmful because woman who are aroused by a book about a man dominating them, and raping them via withdrawn consent normalizes that behavior.
One issue I have with using rape as an umbrella term instead of specifying and categorizing specific sexual misconducts lessens the impact of the word. People become desensitized from to the word from hearing it so much. No one ever takes murder lightly, but people can some how take rape lightly, its because of the varying degrees. I can be on a sexual registry for public urination. By the definition put forward by woman, I as a man have been raped twice by 2 different woman. I'll tell you more about it if you would like to weigh in on wether or not I was actually raped. Statistics like 1 in 5 woman on college campuses have been the victim of rape, is horrifying, but then you realize they include consensual sex with woman who have partaken in any amount of alcohol.
It was rape via coercion, I did not intentionally mean to make her feel threatened, but I understand that she could have felt threatened which could have lead to her agreeing to sex, just as to not to be violently raped.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I could have been more compassionate.
Assuming you already understood her perspective and just have chosen to neglect it. Otherwise no, you couldn't. You could not use the knowledge you have now but didn't have back then.
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Agree, but small acts like establishing a safe word, double checking to make sure its what they want, or refusing them as a sexual partner because of there level of intoxication are acts of compassion.
[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I like this response; it's a rare case of nuance in a sea of unnecessary absolutes.
[–]AnActualPerson2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Your friends aren't the arbutars of what rape is.
[–]insultin_crayon2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Try “arbiter” if you’re going to use a word you just learned to sound smart.
[–]AnActualPerson-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Point still stands. Red pill losers don't get to decide what rape is.
[–]insultin_crayon1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh I agree fully that RP followers are losers and they do not get to define rape, but let’s use the word correctly.
Yes I know, the 12 randomly assigned jurors or inherently bias judge is.
[–]AnActualPerson1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Inherently biased to fairly serve justice.
Yea exactly. If the judge Is a man then he will understand the difficulties of man hood with less effort. If the Judge is a conservative woman, then the actions of a rape victim might not be understandable to her. If the judge was a victim of that same injustice then she will be partial to the victims perspective. Most judges though are older and cant identity with a younger generations world views.
The verdict of the Brock Turner case was a fuckin insult to everything this world holds dear. But why? Was It out of hate for woman? Or leniency for the wealthy and white? If Brock Turner was black and poor feminist would probably be happier with the verdict. So much for justice being blind.
[–]JameisBong-3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Did you go MGTOW (sarcasm)? Sorry that happened to you,i hear there's something called acquaintance rape, horrible and tragic.
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would assume most rapes are of a person the victim knows. Violent rapes aren't common and people argue over what constitutes rape all the time.
[–]JameisBong1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
SJW's have expanded the definitions of rape to the point where if i get boner looking at Instagram thots I'm cyber raping the model.
[–]Ltrfsn25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Are there even women on here?
[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah there's just nothing really to talk about. I don't think I've ever seen anyone condoning this on here. There might be different lines people draw but regret ain't one of them.
[–]simmingslytherin2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
sure we are :) probably not many who would defend false rape accusations though
[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
No, all of them are the suckpuppets of Blue Pilled Virgins
[–]inkybreadbox4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wha—😒
[–]disposablepurplepill-2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Have you not encountered the absolute deluge of male-bashing "CMV's" that happen daily when it's not purge week? Yes, yes there are women on here, actually, I'm constantly surprised at how high the ratio is at times.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
This, to me, feeds into the notion that rape allegations are just regret or misunderstandings. I'm not on board.
[–]762RiflemanNeither11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm somewhat on board. I was kept in an abusive relationship because I was threatened with rape accusations if I ever left. All I can say is at least I left before MeToo happened.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think that's a different issue entirely :/ I'm in full belief that it takes an unstable person to do something so metaphorical (sometimes literally) suicidal like a false rape claim, especially when rape victims struggle just to be able to tell the truth. I'm sorry you went through that.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
Some are, and I’m pretty sure about that. Do you think none are?
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm also sure that a rare, small percentage are. What I'm referring to is the demonizing of almost all rape claims as just fake.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don’t agree with the thought most are a ruse, so I do agree with you.
[–]boomcheese4427 points28 points29 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
LOL When a woman thought you were Alpha last night, but that bedroom encounter determined "That was a lie!"
[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Man I say that last part all the time. That had me dying lol thank you for that
[–]U_feel_Me17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Even though the message is not well-delivered, it’s a good point.
Not getting what you wanted is not the same as being the victim of a violent crime.
[–]thundrthy13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I dont think women think it is
This is such a strawman.
If a woman is going to falsely accuse someone, it's not because of bad sex. Its because they're crazy.
Women are given way more sex ed and information on sexual assault. Calm down.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You then have to show she is crazy. I mean, unless even cops think she is.
[–]U_feel_Me 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
A woman seeking revenge for feeling humiliated or used after sex, even if the “being used” was just not satisfying her unspoken expectations (or even spoken but ignored, like, “you’re going to call me? So now we’re dating?”) isn’t exactly the same as crazy, is it?
[–]Demiansky6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I think this is a good point. People can be driven into a temporary mania when they are dealing with extreme emotions. Doesn't mean they are 24/7 "crazy." Imagine a woman consenting to sex, it goes rather badly with her expectations not being met, the guy brags about it to a few of his friends, said friend calls girl a "slut" and it gets back around to her. She's humiliated, depressed, angry, etc. Most of all, she feels used and worthless. Now imagine she has her gender studies professor whispering into her ear about how "1/3rd of all women will be raped, all men are rapists just waiting for the chance to rape, etc." Not hard to imagine how the story can be refurbished and revised in her own mind.
I think at that moment she feels a similar impulse to a lot of Incels. A lot of incels would rather feel rage than shame. A lot of women who have really bad but consensual sexual encounters would rather be perceived--- by herself and others--- as a "poor, poor victim that everyone will have sympathy for" rather than "the slut that let herself get used and thrown away like a soiled condom."
So then the accusation comes, and it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle even after that period of intense emotions starts to subside.
[–]nonpenishaver1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
So you're literally saying it's womens fault for "letting" men treat them like garbage, not mens fault for BEING garbage.
This is the reason why man-hating is on the rise. Not because of some liberal university professor "brainwashing" us.
Edit: Also I don't feel bad for the guy in that scenario. He wants to spread rumors about a girl that will ruin her reputation when she did literally nothing wrong. But feels like a victim when she does the same thing to him? Lol. Scrotes can die mad.
[–]Demiansky2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
How did you get that out of what I said? What made you think I was feeling bad for the guy? Why does everyone need every situation to be bifurcated into "the righteous, righteous victim" and the "evil, evil perpetrator." It's perfectly possible for a naive woman and a jerk boy to hop into the sack consensually--- and having a bad experience--- without it being rape. And if the case I illustrated above happened, then yeah, the woman would be culpable for the negative outcome of feeling bad about it afterward. If you don't want to burn yourself, don't put your hand on the obviously red hot stove.
The guy in my example was obviously being a douche "bro," but just because a guy has sex with a woman and doesn't call her afterward (despite the woman expecting it) doesn't mean he raped her. And herein lies the problem. We want to punish douchebaggery with execution, which is why we're see saw such a backlash to MeToo.
[–]slim-D251 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
nah bro that’s crazy lol
[–]doesntpostnuttin-2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
bad bro he just defined crazy ahaha
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (104 children) | Copy Link
Just because she was making noises out of her mouth doesn't mean she consented
[–]robogart17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (84 children) | Copy Link
I think this is in regard to a girl getting drunk is still conscious and going home with a guy... not being unconscious and taken advantage off.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (83 children) | Copy Link
There's always two versions of the story. Neither are fully right
[–]robogart13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago* (72 children) | Copy Link
True there are two sides to every coin. But if I go to a gay bar and drink more then I can handle and wake up needing a wheel chair that’s my fault.
Same goes for a lady.
Granted if something is slipped into the drink without consent it’s on the person who now becomes the rapist.
[–]FrigidShadow9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
100% of non-human sex is rape, that's why I'm not a vegan.
[–]robogart6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don’t get it but the vegan part made me laugh exhale take my updoot
[–]crybb4201 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
bro bonobos are lesbians
[–]762RiflemanNeither6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If someone plies you deliberately, that's their fault, too. Ethanol in large quantities is quite incapacitating.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
deleted What is this?
[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting31M - Red Jesus Pill2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But that would obviously an attack on her right to be wasted without negative consequences /s
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link
Yes sure but it's not wrong to both be accountable for something and wish that other people could have held themselves to higher standards. Kind of like leaving our car door unlocked. Ultimately it's your fault for doing that but it sucks that others would take advantage of it too
[–]robogart8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn’t use the car analogy in that regard... and I wouldn’t say both are accountable because if a guy was wasted and a girl took him home I would consider the guy at fault because he shouldn’t of drank so much. It’s not that ladies fault because he had beer googles and wanted to smash until he woke up and saw the mistake he made.
It’s like blaming the Mexican restaurant for you eating a quesadilla and getting explosive diarrhea because your lactose intolerant. Knowing the possible consequences and not taking the responsibility.
[–]whiskeybent_txn11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Guy was wasted. Cant consent. Girl isn't wasted. Can drive. Can consent.
You're still blaming the guy?
Knowing your limits is one thing, but if the roles were reversed he would be getting jail time and a permanent record preventing him from doing anything with his life.
The double standard doesn't deserve anybody man or woman, standing up for it.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Swap 'guy' with 'girl' and tell me if you'd still agree with yourself there.
Yes, if you were drunk you can consent.
Can drive.
Oh, if the guy can't drive and still does, he is accused, not protected. If you continue to support the analogy, you are shooting in your own foot.
The dude is against double standards. A woman also can consent if she was drunk, according to him.
[–]whiskeybent_txn4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
You can't consent when you're shitfaced, you can't make any reliable decisions when you've been drinking. The mind is already altered after just a few drinks.
As a rational person, who doesn't resent his own testicles, I have no idea what you're talking about beyond that although this sub is PPD it is clearly full of misandrist, still inclined to pass all blame off to men.
[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
By this logic you also could say that a drunk murderer could not make any reliable decisions. Should he be freed from responsibility then? (IMO, though, he should be given an option to be coded to not be able to drink vs. being jailed)
PPD it is clearly full of misandrist, still inclined to pass all blame off to men.
I mean, the person you replied to argued that what applies to guys, applies to girls as well.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link
Youre forgetting that getting hammered can happen on accident.
[–]robogart11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link
How do you get hammered on accident?
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link
By drinking too much too quickly without realizing the affects
[–]robogart12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link
... that’s not an accident ...
[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Ultimately it's your fault for doing that but it sucks that others would take advantage of it too
Yep, it does suck. But it's also reality, and happy thoughts about an ideal world where people don't take advantage of others won't do a whole lot to protect yourself from those who would take advantage of you.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Thus why I learned but sometimes there are good people and lessons don't need to be learned the hard way. Sometimes you have a friend whose looking out for you or a guy whose not just about to try to get his dick wet and actually helps you.
[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Lessons only get learned the hard way when wisdom offered on the subject gets ignored or labeled as "victim blaming".
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Not a big believer in victim blaming, I just trying to tell both sides of the story. Shit happens.
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes which is fair, but regardless of both sides the fault and responsibility still lies on the person “claiming victim”
[–]Tomatoccino2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You honestly can’t tell the difference between offering advice before the fact, and blaming the victim afterwards?
Case and point. 100% agree
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
The car analogy works if someone asks you "I take your car for a while, don't you mind?" and you silently give the keys. In that case it's hard to show that you have not given a consent.
[–]KeineFreundin458drug-addict scumbag thieving con artist1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
wake up needing a wheel chair
Nice touch, great film too.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
No one should assume that it's okay to throw your back out just because you didn't/can't tell them no. If you get too drunk, then you get too drunk. Obviously, I do agree that there are much safer and better places, but that still doesn't absolve the rapist; it just brings into light an unrelated issue of the now-raped person's decision making skills on getting drunk there. The latter: on the victim. The former: no.
[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
We are speaking in essence of both being equally drunk and neither saying no at time of cunnilingus.
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
The default is no unless otherwise stated by the people involved. We assume their autonomy, not our convenience.
[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
So if two horny drunk people have sex they should both be charged for rape then?
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Jesus christ, is that a serious question?
It is an issue and it does come up. You know, I got to witness this irl. One friend (male) got drunk with another friend (female). Both drunk. She was getting sexual with the guy (just, like, on the couch in the open). Another drunk female, in no way involved, comes over, strips the first girl, and begins to go down on her. All parties drunk, was the second girl in the clear to do what she did? There was no prior consent in any way (as the first girl repeatedly clarified the next day and for years afterward) and she had never shown interest in the second girl. Does being drunk absolve a violation of autonomy?
No. If two drunk persons consent, then there's consent. Still hazy because consent under the influence isn't really reliable, but it's there. If there is no consent, then you don't just assume it because, "hey, she got drunk. Her fault." That's rapist thinking to defer responsibility. Don't hop for opportunities when people are drunk, high, etc. It is a risky move regardless as inibition, critical thinking, and focus declines. Shit, even Austin Powers rejected a girl he had interest in because she was drunk. Be like that.
Edit: tldr: no unless no consent was given. The lack of consent defines rape. Don't be a knob. You know what I said.
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I completely agree with you in regards to your example of Austin powers. What I’m saying is that at the end of the day she chose to get that drunk as no one forced her to drink excessively. Be it male or female responsibility still falls on person drinking.
I wouldn’t have my way with a lady who is intoxicated beyond conscious consent. You are also right in the regard to autonomy. Here is a counter analogy of smoking cigarettes can lead to lung cancer and said person gets lung cancer who’s at fault?
(Be aware I am playing devils advocate)
[–]U_feel_Me0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Wake up needing a wheel-chair? I’m confused. Is gay sex supposed to cause spinal injuries?
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It’s a joke from white chicks not to be taken literally.
[–]U_feel_Me1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ah, a line from a movie.
[–]BigFatMoggyEejit1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s also just a general joke about getting rode so hard you can’t walk.
Yes my good sir to bring a small moment of humor to those who get it
[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Stupidity masquerading as intellectualism.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
Lol no it isn't. It's not stupid. At all. Anyone who thinks that one party is always to blame for a situation involving two people is the stupidity masquerading as intellectualism.
[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
No, there is simply no never. Almost all times someone says "always" or "never" about a social situation, they're wrong.
In this case, sometimes the truth is somewhere between the two narratives. Sometimes it is entirely in one.
To say it is always between the two narratives accomplishes nothing except a vain attempt to make the author of said statement look smart by appropriating a mechanism that smart people use which is to synthesize competing narratives. Except it doesnt make you look smart because your statement is false. It is simply not true that truth always lies in the synthesis of competing narratives.
Sometimes one person is telling the truth, and the other is telling complete crock and bullshit. This is not complicated.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I'm saying there's always two sides to the story and neither of them are fully right. I'm not claiming that they're both equally valid, or that the division is 50/50. Just that it's impossible for person A to know what person B is going through, because person A doesn't have person B's mind and vice versa. In the case of regret sex that's not rape, that is. I dont think that statement applies to actual rape or false rape accusations. I'm talking about situations where two people who didn't intend to hurt eachother end up having sex, and one or both people feel like shit afterwards. If that is the situation both sides of the story certainly have their merit and neither side is fully aware of the others perspective
You read into the statement too deeply. I never claimed any of this. You could have asked me, do you think this applies to all situations? Like of course not, lol. I'm not "trying to sound smart" at all. Or failing to sound smart, because that's not my intent. The internet is full of men who lack empathy for women; it's also full of women who lack empathy for men. Both want to point the figure at eachother, resolve themselves of blame and responsibility. But when two people make a series of actions and choices that lead to them having sex, there's going to be two sides to that story. Neither of them will be fully right. Because neither person really is able to empathize with the other ; their perspective is muddied by their own perception.
Yes, of course. But I'm not talking about situations where one person is lying and making shit up. But in the case of blackout drunk sex, maybe the woman can't remember the prior night. If you wake up without memory of the prior night in someone else's bed naked, you might be questioning if you were raped. That's still a legitimate perspective! Ive never had that situation, as I've always come to in the middle of the sex act, but I could not recall the actions leading up to the sex event. Also, because I really love sex, having sex wasn't a bothersome event. However it did teach me that obviously I can't hold my liquor, and I think it also taught me that men are horny and lack as many opportunities as women for casual sex and will literally jump at the chance to have sex. There have been other stories ive read where women cannot react , they can't fight off the sex, they're frozen..I can't understand why guys would think it's perfectly ok to have sex with a woman who is unresponsive but not unconscious. You know the kind. The ones who would just lay there but you have to take off her clothes, open her legs, lift her up etc. Of course a guy who is having sex with a really drunk woman is going to skew his side of the story to resolve himself of culpability. Of course a woman who got stupid drunk and was unable to communicate her consent is going to skew her side of the story to resolve himself of culpability.
I think a lot of times I see two arguments - men arguing that they take no responsibility for sleeping with a super drunk woman, and woman arguing they take no responsibility for getting so drunk to be unable to consent. I believe neither of these perspectives are fully right. I think the man could have stopped himself from having sex with an ultra drunk woman (if not drunk) or stopped himself from drinking so much that he was unaware of his actions (if drunk.). I also think the women could have held off on the drinking and stayed in right mind. But there could be some honest mistakes made. Maybe the woman convinced herself she could handle 2 more shots without blacking out. Maybe the man convinced himself she doesn't seem that drunk, and made no attempt to test that hypothesis. That's because what our inner minds desire takes presedence over rational decision making. So both people will have their desires, both people have made mistakes, and both people ultimately made decisions that lead to them having sex. The point of explaining the viewpoint of a blacked out woman is because men don't get it. They think it's complete crock and bullshit. But the women don't get why the man's sex drive takes presedence over humanity? They're both valid! Imo. The desire to fit into a crowd of people who are drinking heavily could be just as strong as the desire to have sex, and therefore, take presedence over rational choices like "not drinking until I'm beyond the point of consent" and "not having sex with a woman if I suspect she is unable to consent without testing the hypothesis". You can tell when someone's really drunk, if you really look. They could be walking and talking but look at their eyes. Listen to their words. Is what they're saying coherent? Are they registering the actions of what's happening around them? There surely are ways men can know if a woman's too drunk, just as surely as there are ways woman can know their limit and not blow through it. But we make mistakes, we are human.
[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Thank you for the extensive and well written reply. I agree with you this happens many times. You seem to agree sometimes accusations are simply false.
So I'm confused. What are you saying that may not be intuitive or obvious? Are you saying anytime one party blacks out during sex that means they have a valid perspective of violation? This doesnt seem to be true, as one can blackout and still have near perfect control over their motor skills at the time but simply not remember it. This means their post sex feeling of violation is entirely invalid if they consented while blackedout.
Please explain.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I think I explained pretty well but the short of it is, there are signs a person is "too drunk" to give proper consent. There are signs, obvious ones. Maybe not in every instance, sure, but I'd argue if you're drunk to the point of "black out" you probably are not able to give "enthusiastic consent" (unless you simply are). I do think a lot of times, a Man will see a super drunk woman, and just "slide" into that situation, she's probably unaware of what is happening, and is just reacting to inputs. If he took a step back, and tried to discern her true interest in having sex, she may react with disinterest. Men would rather not take the chance of her being disinterested and will push forward for sex, and she will not resist accordingly. It's the lack of resistance, and mere reactionary behaviour that signals she is is probably not in the right state of mind. Especially if she's never spoken to you while sober. And doesn't know who you are. Again, men dont care. Well, they may care more now, because some men have gotten in trouble for this. Men would like to write their behaviour off as "she wanted it" or "he didnt know", but theres a chance that is just a cover-up for the truth.
To be honest though, women should really not get shitfaced if they don't want to wake up with an unknown man. It happens. I can't speak for how I acted when I was blackout, but I highly doubt i Instigated sexual encounters. I know I wasn't coherent based on second hand observations. But alas; ultimately, I fixed MY behaviour, I did not feel "violated", because I understand Men Want Sex. And it's not easy for Men to get casual sex, and alcohol makes it a lot easier, and a man who is a bit drunk/tipsy, probably isn't thinking "OMG is she consenting??" he's not thinking. His dick is thinking. So he takes her by the hand and leads her someplace. It's not like the Man is automatically evil for following his base instincts; likely the women was also following HER base instincts. The problem then lies in people vilifying one side of the equation and lacking empathy. Society listens to women more, but Men yell louder on the internet, so I just want to set the story straight. Y'all both are responsible.
[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I really don't get what you're saying.
Do you deny the possibility that people can get drunk, enthusiastically consent, and then wonder the next morning wtf they were thinking?
And in some cases, have so much internal conflict or guilt that the only way they can rid themselves of that dissonance is to convince themselves, entirely falsely, that they were taken advantage of?
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link
Did those noises include the two letter word no, without conditions?
[–]wekacuckLife is settling.10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
"No" is two syllables?
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No 😂
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
You know some people get too drunk to give consent right ?
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Are you speaking legally, practically or ethically?
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Mostly practically.
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I agree. But it’s less obvious than women want to make it. OPs image is extremely relevant.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
It's extremely unobvious. It's not rape if a guy doesn't know she can't consent either. Or he's too drunk to tell.
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Right. That’s men’s objections to tone deaf black and white feminists railing the legal angle. Legally I unknowingly commit felonies daily 🤷🏻♂️
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Unknowingly?
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
http://ulrichboser.com/how-many-felonies-did-you-commit-today-an-interview-with-harvey-silverglate/
I think the post assumes she clearly did.
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok
[–]daniellederek8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Ok, wait hold up, before the pants come off please hold up your valid photo ID and speak clearly into the camera stating your name, age, address, to days date and list what acts you are consenting to. Please sign this 2257 compliance form and model release. Here is a $1 bill. This is now a paid shoot.....
How far away are we from this situation in every college dorm?
[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
a simple audio recorder will do. always protect yourself.
[–]khaste0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
depends on the legality of audio recording in your country tho
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Shit like this is why I try to disengage from society in general
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You can still engage in society just don’t allow yourself to be put in a position where you can be accused.
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link
PSA for incels
Just because you want sex doesn’t mean you deserve sex. No one else is responsible for your pleasure.
Don’t be that guy.
[–]istira_balegina7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
PSA for mysandrists: Dont assume a whole group of people are evil. That's called hate.
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
PSA for goofballs
Telling incels they don’t deserve sex just because they want it is not misandry, nor is it implying anyone is evil, nor is it hateful. That’s called poor reading comprehension skills.
[–]istira_balegina-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Replace incel with Muslim and Islamophobia and reread your sentence.
Dont be that girl.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Why do you always read "wish they would give me sex" with "they should give me sex?"
(PS, this is a gender-reversed rewording of an earlier response to the same thing, but about a woman over 30 who couldn't get dates)
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link
I do t always read anything. I’ve personally been in several arguments with incels that think society should oppress women into marrying young into marriages they don’t want so incels can have sex because “it’s a human right.”
I don’t think all incels feel this way but you (I hope) don’t think all women falsely cry rape either.
[–]KickButtMario3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I'm an incel fren and I assure you most of our kind wouldn't even talk, lest even argue with a women.
You didn't speak with Incels fren.
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Well it was here on reddit and it did happen by self proclaimed incels in the braincel sub. Like I said, I don’t assume all incels feel that way but some do and have been pretty loud about it.
The problem with associating with a group based on hating women is that it’s difficult to hide behind the “not all of us” excuse. Sure, there are bad apples in every bunch but the rest of the group has an obligation to acknowledge and distance themselves from the outliers that use their name to say and do these things. Since incels is primarily made up of hateful men of varying degrees, even if you personally don’t agree with sexual slavery and oppression, by identifying as an incel, you’re supporting the hate and will be seen as such.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You know, the same could've been said of bra burners and home destroyers, but they're now mainstream. We have zero obligation to dance to your tune and leading questions. None whatsoever.
[–]KickButtMario-3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Eh. Shits funny. Their memes are okay. c:
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
LOL that's kinda funny. Yeah the whole "state-sponsored girlfriend" trope is a meme in incel communities. Basically their point is that the state has gone out of its way to give women the resources of men when they can't get a man to do it for them (aka taxpayer funded welfare for single mothers), so the natural converse of this is for the state to give them girlfriends. Though really they should be getting sex robots 😂 I'm personally in favor of society (not legal, but social) encouraging younger marriages. This trope of "being true to your feelings" and marrying only for love seems to be disastrous in practice.
I think a lot of women are perfectly willing to use whatever means necessary to get what it is that they want, up to and including emotional manipulation via rape accusations. My own sister did this in High School. Also it was the whole plot of To Kill a Mockingbird. There's a reason we don't convict people on the basis of what a single person says.
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
Well, that’s a stupid point then, isn’t it?
The government gives poor families money to feed their kids so I get to rape someone! Fair’s fair!
I think a lot of people are perfectly willing to use whatever means necessary to get what it is they want. There are some pretty trash ladies out there and there are some pretty dbag guys. We can’t say for certain that all of them are bad solely based on their genitalia because that’s not how anything works.
I’m sorry that you seem to have had some bad experiences with the bad kind of women, including your sister, but generalizing an entire gender based on your few experiences is pretty silly, right?
I knew a guy in high school that murdered his girlfriend. It’s also the plot of many movies. I don’t think all men will or want to murder their girlfriends though because that would be stupid.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Yeah but you still mistrust men as a part of those experiences. You can't help it, and I wouldn't expect you to not be affected by it. And where did you get the impression that I thought all women lie about rape? I just said that you have to take it with a grain of salt, because she might be the shitty type that would lie about something like that. There's nothing wrong with generalizing, as long as you don't let it stop there and don't let the generalizations override the individual. Obviously you don't convict someone of a crime over generalizations.
Anyways most incels I've talked to want to be loved, and want nothing to do with rape. Many won't even buy hookers because they want it to be out of love, not obligation. So the idea that the joke was about rape is dumb. That's the point, it's the black pill at work. They know nobody will voluntarily love them, so they want the arranged marriage (unless you're one of those people who believes that all arranged marriage is rape, in which case you'd just be ignorant).
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
Call me ignorant but if someone knows that nobody will voluntarily love them or marry them so they want an arranged marriage to force a woman to be with them despite her not wanting to, how is that not rape?
It’s literally forcing a woman against her will to marry and have sex with a man she doesn’t love or want.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Well maybe you should visit India or any one of a dozen Muslim majority countries then. You could have a field day with your rape whistle.
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
That... doesn’t have anything to do with the point though. Is it rape or not? If not why?
Just because something commonly happens in a part of the world, doesn’t mean it’s ok.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Arranged marriage isn't rape. Rape is rape. Also it's not like you have to be assigned a spouse with zero input on your part in order for it to be arranged marriage. It's more like you're presented a series of options and pressured into one of them. And if you want to go down the rabbithole of counting people getting "pressured" into situations that they might not have chosen otherwise as "rape," I'll be happy to go right down there with you and point out how our modern western "free love" culture pressured a lot of girls into choices that they would not have made without the external pressure. Or how a complete lack of training and pressure can also result in highly self-destructive behavior and choices out of pure ignorance (wasn't that the argument in favor of sex education in schools?) Frankly the heavy external involvement in spousal arrangements would probably be a godsend to many people, if the rising divorce rate and subsequent falling marriage rate is any indication. Call it "spouse education" where we'll give out object lessons with vegetables and latex to middle schoolers, then pass out mutual compatibility scores for students to give to their parents.
You're a completely westernized female incapable of even seeing things from the perspective of the people who live immediately around you who are sexually frustrated. How can you expect to be able to see things from the perspective of someone living in a completely different culture, and pass that kind of judgment on it?
[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
incels don't deserve to have sex
actually thats up to each individual woman to decide
[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Y'all should watch the newest Bill Burr special on Netflix
[–]goldmedalflower2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But her female friends will think she's a slut, tho... not to mention how upset the boyfriend will be when he learns she cheated.... Much more convenient this way. Think of it as a strategic business decision
[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Women are powerless, remember? Nothing is ever their fault, and they are therefore perpetual victims.
Of course, this also means we need to start treating them like they children they demand to be. So that means no voting, no driving, no home ownership or property rights of any kind, and definitely no going anywhere unattended.
Let's do everything in our power to protect them from the hostile forces of the universe - including themselves. It's what they want.
[–]whiskeybent_txn0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're being sarcastic, You realize there's entire subs full of women who actually think this way. They want privileges with no responsibilities. They expect to never be held accountable when they fuck up.
[–]robogart-2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol that’s funny. Where grinning with laughter when typing this
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Men really just keep self-dragging themselves here. That she felt regret sex with you hilariously clarifies why women keep avoiding sex with them in the first place.
[–]SpankKing_6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
he can be the worlds biggest loser, but he’s still not a rapist.
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
He’s still the world’s biggest loser.
[–]Corvus_Uraneus0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Cry some more incel/MGTOW tears 😂
Yeah, I must be an incel if I'm opposed to cheating and lying about it, or hoodwinking a man into thinking you're marriage material.
Any man who opposes unacceptable behavior, or doesn't eat shit for the privilege of your diseased cunt must not be getting laid, because all women must be as shitty as you are, right?
Fuck off with that baseless insult, slut. You morons sling that at married men, at least my insults about you are ACCURATE. I'd had plenty of the likes of you, and was always smart enough never to commit to a walking divorce case like you. You are a one and done, if you're even fuckable.
[–]rainisthelife 1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Some more incel and MGTOW tears 🤣
Lol you were so pained about our post on FDS, you followed me here to give your pained response? Wow what a loser hahaha. No greater proof that what we’re saying over there is correct. You’ve had no one, and you have no one. You’re a chronically sexually rejected failure who’s fresh off his latest dismissal from the many women he’s tried to get with.
A cuck that many women use for money and discard swiftly after. Your pain and tears about that post actually proves the truth about it. And we’ll continue to engage in these tactics because we’ve realized, that despite your triggered blabbing, that this is what works. And the only thing “accurate” about all of this is your own stupidity.
Your opinions are just as irrelevant as your life. Don’t forget to cry yourself to sleep again tonight!
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (71 children) | Copy Link
Regret sex is a term made up by rapists and men who are so horrifically terrible in bed the women leave traumatized. Everytime I hear “regret sex” you are admitting you are a bad fucking time.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled14 points15 points16 points 4 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link
This is just "ugly men go to jail" all over again. It's the sexual bedroom performance version of "when a hot guy does it, it's ok, but when a creep does it, call the cops."
[–]762RiflemanNeither15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link
Imagine how many romance novels would be crime thrillers if the guys on the covers were yokels named Clem and lived in trailer parks.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link
Like most men, you can’t understand what consent is and is not and so you miss the nuance.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
There is no nuance. You're trying to make it into this "mysterious" thing that only you understand, because in reality it's just something you decide after the fact based on how you feel. This gives you a perverse sense of power over your repeated past decisions (oh he didn't react the way I wanted him to? It was RAPE!)
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
There is no nuance.
Yeah there is, and if you know what’s best for you better learn it. And quickly
You're trying to make it into this "mysterious" thing that only you understand, because in reality it's just something you decide after the fact based on how you feel.
Whelp if a rape happened I’m going to feel raped, naturally. So like I said in the OP, “regret sex”’is something rapists and terrible sex partners came up with. If someone walks away from a sexual encounter with you and it’s even questionable you need to evaluate your whole life. Because if it’s not obvious she’s enthusiastically participating then you got problems buddy.
oh he didn't react the way I wanted him to? It was RAPE!)
Yeah when you don’t react to clear signals to stop it’s called rape. When you decide sex is going to happen without signals to proceed it’s called rape.
[–]randomizer3000 1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link
terrible sex partners
Which believe it or not, is not a crime. Just like having a horrible personality isn't. You lump the two together like it makes no difference lol.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
I know. I’m just pointing out that only men who are shitty in bed are actually concerned with this. Usually the type of guys who feel like women are “just a hole” and then want to play victim later like they didn’t purposefully abuse and demean their sexual partner.
[–]randomizer3000 1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
I mean, you run a sub for chicks that suck at extracting commitment. Surely you can see the irony in complaining about it.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago* (14 children) | Copy Link
If you think that’s why the sub exists, You clearly don’t understand it. This is not a femcel sub. Plenty of us have had committed relationships, even with alleged HVM (gasp!) and they ain’t all they’re cracked up to be. Society has been selling us the lie that “living happily ever after” with a man is the key to happiness and value but actually it’s just free domestic labor for the state and a way to bully us into fucking some of these incels so they don’t destroy the place.
It’s all a lie, it always has been, and we’re tired of doing this thankless shitty work for men who spend their time plotting how to terrorize us and hate us for breathing. God forbid we have children with one of you and it doesn’t work out and you all can easily absolve yourselves of any responsibility and point fingers at single moms for all of society’s ills.
You hate us for fucking too much, you hate us for not fucking you enough, you hate us when we have your children, you hate us when we forgo that and live single, you hate us for being attractive, you hate us for being ugly, and you hate us for getting old, and you hate us when we’re young unless you think you can have sex with us, but then you hate us for that too because “hoes”. There is no stage in a woman’s life where you don’t hate us for existing. Are we about done here?
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Oh give me a break. I avoid women because of shit like this. I've had just enough experience with women to know that being straightforward usually does not work, and that was enough for me to get the f*ck out of there. I'm not going to dance to your fiddle and give you the unbridled power to ruin my life should we ever have a falling out and you turn out to be batshit crazy. I'm not stupid enough to think that I have everything figured out. Especially not the arbitrary rules of female feeling and empowerment. Women will f*cking say "no" when they want the guy to keep going. That shit is messed up.
Look, either rape is the forceful extraction of sex from some clearly saying no, or we sign contracts before every sexual encounter. If she doesn't say no, then it's not rape. If they didn't sign contracts beforehand, then it's sin (aka the marriage contract). This other stuff about nuanced consent, affirmative consent, etc is just a bunch of red herrings around the fact that all sex outside of a commitment is just generally a horrible idea.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Women will f*cking say "no" when they want the guy to keep going. That shit is messed up.
What age are you? 17? Grown ass women know whether they want to have sex or not. And if she says no, then stop, the FIRST time she says it and don’t go further. This is simple. You are just making it hard in your head to justify being a rapist.
This other stuff about nuanced consent, affirmative consent, etc is just a bunch of red herrings around the fact that all sex outside of a commitment is just generally a horrible idea.
Spousal rape is a thing, so not really.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Oh get real. The whole spousal rape thing was almost certainly overblown. If a guy's wife accused him of raping her, I think everyone was aware that that household had some serious issues. People always bring this up because there was no legal recourse, but that's almost impossible anyways because it's a he said/she said situation and it's not clear that we help anyone by aggressively reacting to accusations with the force of law. It's similar to the issues with red flag laws.
Also it's not just the 17 year olds who are insane. Maybe they are as you say after 25, but I find that unlikely and can't be bothered. Usually it's more subtle though, I'll give the older women that.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The whole spousal rape thing was almost certainly overblown.
Based on what?
a guy's wife accused him of raping her, I think everyone was aware that that household had some serious issues
Assuming a woman would come forward. Which since it wasn’t a crime back then, probably not.
[–]762RiflemanNeither5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
So you mean to tell me you've never had sex you've regretted? I sure have had bad sex and sex I regret. Do women just magically not experience regret, or are they wired to orgasm as the slightest touch? It's possible to have fully consensual experiences that were terrible and you wish didn't happen.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
We know the difference between bad sex we regret and what rape is. You all clearly don’t, which is why you keep supporting this asinine trope.
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I agree rape and bad sex is different entirely but what the op is stating does happen...
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
No it doesn’t. You don’t know anyone this has happened to. You’ve never had it personally effect you. This is an abstract concept that men made up to justify all the creepy rapey shit you’ve done. But I will bet cash money you know a ton of rape victims.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
No it doesn’t.
This is objectively false. My own sister did this in high school, and that was 20+ years ago.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Which you have no idea if it’s true or not because you weren’t there
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
This is something only ugly men think.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
....are you even trying? It's like you're making my argument for me.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You think if you were hot suddenly consent goes out the window. That’s not how it works.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
No, I'm saying that if he's good at it, consent all of a sudden gets a lot less nuanced and more likely to be granted "after the fact" as it were.
The bit about hot guys was about how hot guys can more easily do things that are considered sexual harassment when ugly guys do them.
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Or, she’s giving him clear signals she’s into it that your dumbass is not picking up on, and that’s why you’re walking around confused.
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The clear signal that she's giving is that he's hot or really good in bed. Good old Bond women, sigh....
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Which she’s not giving to you, so back the fuck off ugly
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The hits just keep on coming. Do you really not see how calling me ugly (you don't know me! sniffle) only proves my point?
[–]762RiflemanNeither1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
And you just proved our point.
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Claiming that a woman felt “regret sex” after she was with you is the most hilarious self drag I’ve seen men do to themselves.
The joke is just literally writing itself at this point.
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link
Or women get butthurt that after a one night stand I’m not interested in dating them or committing. Like damn if I was looking to commit I would’ve done much better than her.
Sure bro. Or maybe you’re just a rapist. Especially if it’s a recurring event with all the “women” you’ve “rejected”. But we both know nobody fucks you on purpose so I don’t know why I’m responding.
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I’m married now. I’m just talking back in the day. Never been accused of rape since I always went fwb instead of ons. I think there was only one chick where I got too drunk and fucked someone too ugly to fuck again
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
So this literally never happened, which supports my point.
[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
I don’t understand what your point is
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
That “regret sex” resulting in rape claims is basically nonexistent, and all of this is based on an abstract assumption of how women operate with little basis in reality.
[–]robogart5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Soooooo are you saying there is no such thing as a false rape allegation?
[–]randomizer3000 1 points 4 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't affect her so it's not a real problem. Keep up.
[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sarcasm I see ok you had me in the first half not gonna lie
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’ve definitely seen it where an ugly chick is all over one of my wasted bros, he fucks her and avoids her, and she claims she was taken advantage of.
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Then I’m not really sure why men keep complaining about women using them for money and free food and then bouncing. If she wanted to have sex with you, she would have picked someone better looking with much higher value.
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Different groups of men. The ones getting used and bounced on aren’t the ones pumping and dumping.
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yet its all of them that are complaining about the men that are getting used and dumped.
Honestly makes sense that they are getting used.
[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Why are women fucking men they barely know? And traumatized from bad sex? Please. If the sex was bad, she's equally to blame.
How many times do we have to tell you that 9/10 your rapist is someone you actually know? Get it out of your head that this happens because of randoms bar hookups.
So she never gets drunk, has beer goggles and fucks a guy she otherwise wouldn't? Alcohol never removes inhibitions? Because what you're saying then is that women knowingly choose to go off with strange men, risking their safety, and then want to complain when it doesn't pay off. That sounds an awful lot like entitlement.
Only if she is clearly too wasted to consent and the man coerced her there, or is violent with her.
Are we always guaranteed positive experiences, especially with people we barely know?
It should at least be neutral. No man should be so violent, inconsiderate, disrespectful, abusive, pushy, and uncommunicative that a reasonable person would walk away feeling assaulted. But all you “females are just holes” types think treating a woman as disrespectfully as possible is part of the thrill.
[–]guccimaneslawyer0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Wait...woman don’t orgasm during rape?
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
if they do it's not rape
[–]AddictedToHentai690 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
O>O
[–]skinny_gyal0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I never understood how people would occasionally have unsatisfactory sex and call it rape.
[–]aussie-weeb0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Only 2-10% of accusations of rape are proven to be false. When you think about it, far more cases go unreported. Only about 17% of reported cases result in a conviction and having to relive such a traumatic event in court for some is impossible and so many victims remain silent. I’m not saying false accusations are not a problem and I agree that they do destroy lives, but please don’t box victims and false accuses together by saying “PSA for the ladies”.
[–]cryatthedisco0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
yeah. But if you regret it during and they still carry on. Thats most definitely rape.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Please. Women are hundreds of times more likely to actually be raped and not report it than they are to report consensual sex as rape to the motherfucking police, simply because they regret it. I've been through the entire experience on the legal end, and it's massively traumatizing for the victim even with an airtight case against their rapist that results in conviction and significant jail time. I have seen women actively get worse, psychologically speaking, as a result of reporting rape and persuing a conviction.
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[–]Luke-the-camera-guy-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've come to the understanding that this meme is essentially women(or anyone) who had bad experience with men( or anyone tbh) during sex who feel a sense of regret ( whether that be because he other was a bad lay or because they feel like they were taken advantage of in a time of what they now perceive as a vulnerable state), is not meant to be read as a statement of "bad sex/regrettable sex = you raped me". Like if any of you people here has a SO and they want to talk to you about how they haven't been enjoying sex with you as of late or feel like the times you do have sex is in some way affecting them negatively, you wouldn't assume "my lover is accusing me of rape" because that's what asshole reactionaries do, .
I'm assuming you would want to listen to their grievances or here them vent out their frustrations due to such incidents and then go from there on how to handle future interactions. Similar to how u/i_have_a_semicolon mentioned below, yes you are partly responsible for the decisions you made that led to this outcome but lets not act like your emotions towards the are invalid or that the other party could have had more compassion because "this wouldn't have happened if you simply didn't do this/simply stated your mind"
That's just me I guess, I could be wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[–]Tomatoccino-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you’ve pressured or nagged someone into sex that they don’t want to have, then you absolutely deserve to sweat bullets while they decide to take it to the police to drag you to all your mutual friends. If you’re too socially inept to understand when someone is sparing your feelings rather than giving you a hard or nuclear no, then you need to stick to a blow up sheep or Mrs Palmer.
[–]werewolf28140 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
No, we need to teach people to stop stringing people along. Sometimes people need a “nuclear no” and we need to stop making people ashamed of giving it & stop shaming people for being so “socially inept” that they need it.
[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Trying to spare someone’s feelings isn’t stringing them along. If you’re socially inept, a psychologist or sex therapist can help you with social stories to understand this.
[–]Kennah03-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don’t rape, don’t falsely accuse. Simple.
[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.-1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, I know; I also know that stealing is illegal and that jumping out of my window round now would almost certainly result into my death.
Fascinating things.
© TheRedArchive 2024. All rights reserved.created by /u/dream-hunter
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[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AnActualPerson2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]insultin_crayon2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AnActualPerson-1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]insultin_crayon1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]AnActualPerson1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Rebel-1001 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]JameisBong-3 points-2 points-1 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rebel-1002 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]JameisBong1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ltrfsn25 points26 points27 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]nemma8831/F/UK INFP -t. Engaged7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]simmingslytherin2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting 1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]inkybreadbox4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]disposablepurplepill-2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon21 points22 points23 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]762RiflemanNeither11 points12 points13 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]boomcheese4427 points28 points29 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]U_feel_Me17 points18 points19 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]thundrthy13 points14 points15 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]rus9384Misanthrope4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]U_feel_Me 1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Demiansky6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]nonpenishaver1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Demiansky2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]slim-D251 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]doesntpostnuttin-2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman24 points25 points26 points (104 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart17 points18 points19 points (84 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-3 points-2 points-1 points (83 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart13 points14 points15 points (72 children) | Copy Link
[–]FrigidShadow9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]crybb4201 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]762RiflemanNeither6 points7 points8 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]GiftOfBlackKnighting31M - Red Jesus Pill2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman8 points9 points10 points (46 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart8 points9 points10 points (37 children) | Copy Link
[–]whiskeybent_txn11 points12 points13 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]whiskeybent_txn4 points5 points6 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]rus9384Misanthrope1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points (30 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart11 points12 points13 points (29 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points (28 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart12 points13 points14 points (26 children) | Copy Link
[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]Teflon081911 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tomatoccino2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]KeineFreundin458drug-addict scumbag thieving con artist1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon-1 points0 points1 point (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart1 point2 points3 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]OmarsDamnSpoon1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]U_feel_Me0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]U_feel_Me1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]BigFatMoggyEejit1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman0 points1 point2 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]wekacuckLife is settling.10 points11 points12 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman6 points7 points8 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman3 points4 points5 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled2 points3 points4 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]sadomasochristnAWALT = Not red pilled1 point2 points3 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]rus9384Misanthrope0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]i_have_a_semicolonPurple Pill Woman-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]daniellederek8 points9 points10 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]khaste0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (28 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina7 points8 points9 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]istira_balegina-1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled9 points10 points11 points (20 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link
[–]KickButtMario3 points4 points5 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]KickButtMario-3 points-2 points-1 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled-1 points0 points1 point (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]DorothyMFMantooth 1 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]PickUpScientistMaroon Pill4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]goldmedalflower2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]HumanSockPuppetEqual-Opportunity Oppressor5 points6 points7 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]whiskeybent_txn0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart-2 points-1 points0 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑1 point2 points3 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]SpankKing_6 points7 points8 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑-1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]Corvus_Uraneus0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelife 1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-4 points-3 points-2 points (71 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled14 points15 points16 points (51 children) | Copy Link
[–]762RiflemanNeither15 points16 points17 points (39 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial-5 points-4 points-3 points (38 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled12 points13 points14 points (24 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial1 point2 points3 points (23 children) | Copy Link
[–]randomizer3000 1 points [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]randomizer3000 1 points [recovered] (15 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial6 points7 points8 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]762RiflemanNeither5 points6 points7 points (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial4 points5 points6 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart2 points3 points4 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial0 points1 point2 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled8 points9 points10 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled4 points5 points6 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial5 points6 points7 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]jayval90PUAs are Blue Pilled6 points7 points8 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]762RiflemanNeither1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points (13 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial7 points8 points9 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend7 points8 points9 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial3 points4 points5 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial11 points12 points13 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart5 points6 points7 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]randomizer3000 1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart4 points5 points6 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Paranoidexboyfriend2 points3 points4 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]rainisthelifeFacepalm 😑0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]robogart3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]TheOGJammiesPlatinum Select While You Free Trial8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]guccimaneslawyer0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]AddictedToHentai690 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]skinny_gyal0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]aussie-weeb0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]cryatthedisco0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]AutoModeratorBiased Against Humans[M] -1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Luke-the-camera-guy-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tomatoccino-1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]werewolf28140 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Tomatoccino0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Kennah03-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Vegetas_HaircutDrugs are bad; don't take pills.-1 points0 points1 point (0 children) | Copy Link