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Long-Term Relationship Game Theory: A Beginner's Guide to Managing Your Bitches

by HumanSockPuppet on /r/TheRedPill
16 February 2015 12:14 PM UTC
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/r/TheRedPill has been talking a lot about long-term relationships recently. In response, I have created this helpful guide for newbies on how to manage your bitches by turning your relationship into a game she plays - winning prizes of intimacy for good behaviour, and getting punished with demotion or exile if she fails.

This guide will begin with some basic theory, describing why men are the arbitrators of relationships. It will then establish some common definitions and lay the groundwork for the strategy section afterwards.

As you read this guide, bear in mind that it is not meant to be absolute. It is a model that I've made which works for me. You are free (and encouraged) to modify any part of it to suit you. But for the most part, the principles outlined here should be fairly universal.

We say AWALT for a reason.

Two Disclaimers

1) In order to make and sustain a prosperous long-term relationship with a woman, you MUST be comfortable with bossing her around - being a bonafide Patriarch™.

You don't have to be a master of your emotions yet. But at the very least, you must be willing to be firm with her, give her orders, and tell her "no", even against a flood of her tears.

A woman cannot feel comfortable in a LTR unless she feels like someone other than her is in control. That someone (naturally) is you.

2) A long-term relationship CANNOT be your end goal. You can only be OPEN to the possibility of having one.

When you WANT a LTR, you place your focus on the idea of having a relationship rather than on assessing the woman herself (which is what you should be doing). You become fixated on your fantasy relationship and you selectively ignore the things happening right in front of you: her deep character flaws, her indiscretions, and the red flags.

Remember, women are candidates applying to be your girlfriend. Don't just hire someone because you want the position filled. Make sure you vet your candidates fiercely and hire the right one for the job.

This guide will help you do just that.

The Fundamental Principle of Sex and Relationships (FPoSaR)

This Fundamental Principle states that women are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of relationships. You should be familiar with it by now. If not, educate your ass here.

Beyond a man's Relationship Gate lies a paradise that every woman wants to inhabit. It is a magical realm where pickle jars are opened, spiders are squished, rides are given, appliances are fixed, cuddles are administered, encouragement is provided, and order is firmly established. And all of that takes time and effort.

As a man, your time and effort is your most valuable asset. You use it to get shit done. When time and effort is self-directed, it is used to accomplish Your Mission. When it is given to someone else, it is a tremendous gift which should be appreciated and respected.

Some men are too liberal with who they let through their Relationship Gate. They've got no border patrol, no review process. Just a country full of free benefits for anyone who crosses over. These are the beta-orbiters, and they are beset by every panhandling pussy that bats its attached eyelashes.

Some men are too strict about admission. They only issue temporary sex visas, and they end up deporting any woman without notice. These are the uninterested lone-alphas, and they have chosen their current lifestyle of banging and then flying solo.

YOU, on the other hand, are open to a LTR. Managing LTRs comes down to finding the right balance between these two extremes. You must giveth and you must taketh away in moderation.

You can achieve this balance by assigning "ranks" to your women and dividing your time among them based on the rank they have earned.

An Overview of "Ranks"

We use a lot of terms for describing a relationship with a woman: girlfriend, fiancee, one-night stand (ONS), plate, friend-with-benefits (FWB), etc.

But what do they really mean?

From a male perspective, each term implies a different level of investment in the woman - an investment of time, effort, emotions, and other precious male resources. As such, I believe they can be ordered in a roughly linear scale based on the level of investment they imply.

Here's a list that we will use (along with working definitions) ordered from least to greatest in terms of investment level.

Level 0: One-Night Stand -or- Pump and Dump. You throw a fuck into this girl and never see her again (unless she reaches out to you). It is a single encounter that is casual, sexual, and impersonal. You may or may not have met her before the encounter, and you may or may not even know her name. She is a one-time answer to a physical necessity - nothing more.

Requires no maintenance and a very low investment of time.

Level 1: Plate -or- Fuck Buddy. You have sex with this girl more than once. You will know her name and just enough about her life so you can schedule sexual encounters. You may also know a little bit about her personally, so you can help her rationalize being your fucktoy (if she's uncomfortable about the idea of being one). Otherwise, she's down with it and you're both satisfied with being casual. She is a temporary answer to a physical necessity.

Requires some maintenance and a low investment of time.

Level 2: Friends with Benefits. You have sex with this girl more than once - typically as often as mutual convenience allows, but perhaps even when it's not completely convenient for her (because she likes you enough to go out of her way). You also spend non-sexual time with this girl, like eating out or pursuing activities of mutual interest. You know more about her personal life, and she knows more about yours, and as a result the two of you exchange mutual, non-sexual favours from time to time. You will most certainly have good memories of non-sexual time spent with this girl, which will lead to positive emotional investment in her, making her more than just an answer to a physical necessity.

Requires moderate maintenance and a moderate investment of time.

Level 3: Significant Other -or- Girlfriend. The highest level of intimacy a woman can earn. You have sex with this girl often, usually more often than you do any of your other girls. You also spend a considerable amount of non-sexual time with this girl, resulting in many shared memories and a deeper emotional investment. At this level, there is significant mutual concern for the other's well-being. The girl in particular will feel a great dependence on your direct and involved guidance in her life (rather than simple stoicism and confidence). Emotions are strongly felt at this level: affection is especially sweet, and betrayal can be especially bitter.

Requires significant maintenance and a significant investment of time.

How She Plays the Game

The game itself is quite simple:

A girl begins the game at Level 0 or Level 1, depending on the context in which you two met.

If you met in a club, or began as total strangers grinding against each other at a house party, she's Level 0.

If you two met in a slightly more sociable manner - perhaps introduced by mutual friends, or she impressed you with her pleasant demeanour after you opened her at the local cafe, she's Level 1. She can also bump up from Level 0 to Level 1 if she reaches out and maintains pleasant and reasonable contact with you after your first sexual encounter.

From that point on, a woman must perform NON-SEXUAL services for you in order to advance in rank.

These services can include, but are not limited to:

  • Cooking you a healthy meal. Either at your place or by invitation to her's.
  • Treating you out some place. A restaurant or an activity of interest to YOU. Bonus points if you've never done the activity but it looks like fun - that means she's really thinking about you.
  • Buying you a well-thought-out gift. Not just a random thing, but a gift which demonstrates an effort to understand your life and interests (example: therapeutic shoe insoles for a guy who likes running, or high-quality ear buds for a music-lover). The accuracy of her insight is more important than the cost.
  • Hand-making you an artistic gift. These might include a picture or painting, a poem, a knitted scarf, a calendar of her photography, and the like. The more personalized the gift, the better. A hand-made gift doesn't have to be highly useful (since making useful things is tough), as long as the gift shows patience, diligence, and an attention to detail.

The greater her investment of time and effort in the gesture, the more credit she earns with you. Eventually, if she shows a consistent pattern of investing effort in you, she can advance in rank by one level.

The pattern should be obvious by now. A woman must invest time and effort in you in order to get your time and effort in return.

There's no concrete number of favours she must do to go up a rank, so use your own discretion and judgement when deciding how to reward her. But always observe Roissy's Fifth Commandment of Poon:

V. Adhere to the golden ratio

Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.

Giving her slightly less than she gives you is critical to maintaining your superiority in her mind. The material imbalance in this scheme is rebalanced by her hamster. Because your effort appears less than hers, she believes you to be her superior, and that she must continue to work in order to earn your approval and continued commitment.

A slow trickle of correctly-administered rewards will keep your woman happy and working for the duration of your relationship together. With dedication on her part, that relationship can be quite a long time.

Why Do the Services Have to Be Non-Sexual?

Simple. Because a girl doesn't have to exert any effort at all to have sex. This game only rewards effort with effort.

If she's pretty enough to appear on your radar, then she can get fucked just by showing up. Any random slut can satisfy the task of emptying your balls.

You should also remember this: sex is the most fundamental pre-requisite of any non-platonic interaction between a guy and a girl. You'll never find yourself in a situation where a girl is giving you gifts and cooking you meals, but NOT having sex with you. If sex isn't happening, then something is terribly amiss and you must either correct it or next her. Which brings us to our next section...

Punishment and Demotion

There are many ways in which a girl can make a mistake and upset you. Maybe she starches your shirts too much, or she burns the dinner she was making for you. These kinds of mistakes should not be punished with demotion because, despite her mistake, she is investing time and effort in you. You can think of a suitable punishment and repayment for your lost shirt without going to the extreme of knocking her down a rank.

Instead, demotable offenses should be offenses that are an affront to your dignity, your authority, or to the time and effort you have invested in her.

Offenses can be intentional or unintentional.

Unintentional offenses will usually come in the form of some indiscretion on her part, as she slowly loses attraction for you, her conscious effort wanes, and she slips back into her natural hypergamous state.

Some examples of unintentional offenses are:

  • Unconsciously being too flirty with another guy (shit-test, can occur at any level).
  • Failing to keep an important promise (usually by neglect or poor-planning), the consequences of which cost you a substantial amount of money or ANY amount of reputation (failing of respect, this offense will happen at Level 2 or above, since you don't entrust these matters to girls below Level 2).
  • Neglecting some important duty that you have assigned to her (failing of respect, typically occurs at Level 3).
  • Frequency of sex decreases, and she absently evades when you try to initiate sex (loss of attraction, can occur at any level).

Committing an unintentional offense should typically result in the demotion of the girl by one (1) rank.

Intentional offenses are far more vulgar than their counterparts. Intentional offenses are usually targeted shit-tests meant to re-assess your fitness. In some extreme cases they might even occur in the presence of friends and family, making them vindictive attacks against your reputation or dignity

Some examples of intentional offenses are:

  • Consciously flirting with another guy, trying to arouse jealousy in you (shit-test, can occur at any level).
  • Openly insulting you (shit-test, can occur at any level).
  • Frequency of sex decreases, and she consciously and vehemently evades when you try to initiate sex or talk about it (loss of attraction, can occur at any level).

Committing an intentional offense should result in the demotion of the girl by two (2) ranks. Committing a vindictive attack against your reputation should result in a loss of three (3) ranks.

Now, here's the important bit:

Once a girl has been demoted, her current level becomes the maximum level she can ever be. She can only climb the ladder as long as she is flawless in the execution of her womanly duties. Once she commits a serious offense, she is demoted, and she can never rise again.

A friend-with-benefits who remorselessly loses your expensive digital camera becomes a plate forevermore.

A plate who fails to provide sex drops to 0, and she is replaced by a plate who will.

A girlfriend who drunkenly humiliates you in front of your friends at a party drops to 0, and she quietly disappears from your life.

It may seem like some of these punishments are quite severe. But you must remember that hypergamy shows no mercy to the weak. The purpose of meting out such uncompromising punishment is to keep you in Abundance Mentality. With so many eligible bachelorettes out there looking desperately for a strong man like you, no single one of them is worth your grief.

An uncompromising approach helps you to avoid the risk of developing oneitis, and it prevents you from being manipulated by women who are all too good at tugging at your sympathy to get just one/two/five more chances.

"WTF Is This Shit", or Naturalizing the Process

At this point, you might be thinking to yourself, "What the fuck did I just read? What's all this ranks shit? That was dense, and abstract, and needlessly complicated. I'm not Alex fucking Trebek, I'm just a dude trying to find a decent girl."

The process certainly seems complicated when you write it all down.

What you should know: I like designing games. I like picking shit apart, finding patterns, and abstracting those patterns into discrete rules. And many things in life tend to work this way.

Like I said in my disclaimer, this is a model. Use any part of it that aids your understanding of human relationships. Substitute your own observations and rules if you think yours work better. If you think reading all this was a waste of your time, send me an angry message and I'll have some fun laughing at it later.

The greater your comprehension of human sexuality, the better a relationship you can have. And the more you practice it, the more naturally you can achieve your results. Don't tell your bitch "You're losing a rank for that shit!" Just drift away, disinterested with your relationship, and let her figure it out.

Focus on the human interaction and save the game theory for late nights with reddit and your favourite sock.

Not me, though. I may be a sock, but I ain't into that.

Final Thoughts

The key trait of the modern western woman is her absolute lack of concern for the desires of men. Our cuckold state has all but replaced men as husbands and providers, and so it would seem like the traditional relationship is basically obsolete.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

While a woman can subsist off the benefits paid for by our taxes, the government cannot give her the love, the attention, the stability, the masculine reassurance, and direct intervention that are so crucial to her emotional well-being. A woman feels vulnerable in a role of leadership, and she feels lost without a masculine leader to boldly claim responsibility for confronting all of the challenges that terrify her. No government can provide that for her. For that, she must come to us.

And for that, we must demand a price.

The purpose of this guide, and of the Red Pill at large, is not to effect social change on a broad scale. The broad scale is too distant and too nebulous to impact our personal lives in any meaningfully positive way - a fact that women are become all too aware of.

Rather, it is about finding pragmatic ways of improving your life quickly. Your life matters to you, and it is your duty to improve it.

You have more leverage than you may realize. Let this guide help you to capitalize on it - for your happiness, and for the happiness of any woman who works hard enough to earn your time and effort.

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165 upvotesNeoreactionSafe5 years ago

This is an absolute breath of fresh air.

You have presented the advanced art of actual relationship with higher functioning adults of both genders.

This is the "end game" of the Red Pill process where you have complete mastery over your situation.

Excellent Post !!!

95 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

A long-term relationship CANNOT be your end goal. You can only be OPEN to the possibility of having one.

The #1 mistake men make is not following this advice and then settling

28 upvotesrpscrote5 years ago

it cannot be overstated how vitally important it is to pick the WOMAN and not the RELATIONSHIP

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Can you expend on that please? I don't understand.

3 upvotesnuesuh4 years ago

You don't start a LTR for the sake of starting one. You start a LTR because the woman in question is good enough.

"Remember, women are candidates applying to be your girlfriend. Don't just hire someone because you want the position filled. Make sure you vet your candidates fiercely and hire the right one for the job."

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

Not OP, but I think he means to choose the woman out of the sea of other options, but not necessarily the relationship.

1 upvotesrpscrote4 years ago

needing a relationship means you aren't okay alone, picking the woman necessarily means you have options and one of those options is being okay alone

4 upvotesBlaiseD-Bertrand5 years ago

Avoid doing things for the sake of doing things, like getting into a LTR or even bedding a woman just because you can. Both men and women can be bad for "being in love with the idea of being in love." That is, they don't take into consideration the idiot who is the other half of the equation or just how shitty the relationship is despite both agreeing they love each other.

If your overall goal is to have a LTR then don't expect that any particular woman is the one. Setting your goal as having an LTR with a particular woman smacks of oneitis and is probably a decision made without enough evidence being on the table.

2 upvotesGierfarmer5 years ago

Far too many people are looking for the right person and not trying to be the right person.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 4 years ago

The goal is happiness. A relation MAY BE, under CERTAIN CONDITIONS, a way to be a little happier.

It CAN NOT be a mean to achieve happiness.

-3 upvotesPlebDestroyer5 years ago

I struggle to understand why I would even want one. Heck, even if the girl deserves it -- I don't HAVE to give her commitment, do I? It's like giving out scholarships; okay, you've earned one with hard work, but I'm sure the college would prefer you to pay them instead.

I'd rather be a player and never settle.

4 upvotesMyFirstOtherAccount5 years ago

Well then this post isn't for you...

-2 upvotesPlebDestroyer5 years ago

I understand, but I'm trying to gain an understanding of why people would want an ltr.

18 upvotes87GNX5 years ago

The comparison between a man's open-ness to a relationship and a country's open-ness to immigrants is hilarious, and right on.

46 upvotesRedRisingHood5 years ago

From that point on, a woman must perform NON-SEXUAL services for you in order to advance in rank.

Brilliant - Laughed so hard

It's like training a pet puppy or commanding some fairly incompetent army cadets.

upvotes50 years ago

[permanently deleted]

32 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

Excellent read. I agree with all of it.

One note on the "withholding sex" part. My LTR is a shy (true) Asian girl. The thought that she might be starting her period is the only reason she has ever been hesitant to do the deed. I have no problem with that. I am not a fan of parting the red sea and I appreciate her respecting my stance (besides, she would never even suggest it. She feels very unclean during that time, which goes against her almost-clinical cleanliness).

But, it does bring up a topic I've thought about mentioning here before - and as a reminder to those starting out - that 1/4 of the times you first meet a girl, and she doesn't go to pound town with you, the reason might be that she's ragging and too shy to say anything.

Op, I'd buy you a drink if I ever met you for your time spent on your dead-on postings.

18 upvoteshandyandypandy5 years ago

Good reply. Something even more important to keep in mind: it's HOW she turns down sex which is what's important. Two scenarios:

  1. You initiate. She pushes you away rather coldly, barely looking at you. Doesn't give any explanation, ignores you for the rest of the night. Doesn't seem to acknowledge or care about your needs/desires.

  2. You initiate. She apologises and says she can't tonight. Snuggles up to you and says she feels bad for not being able to have sex, starts kissing you then goes down and gives you head. Afterwards, she cuddles up to you.

  3. is cold as shit, and shows no concern for your needs. 2) shows compassion and a compromise. There will occasionally be times your girl really can't have sex. But the mark of a truly great LTR is one who cares that YOU have the desire to have sex even if she doesn't (in that moment), and helps satisfy you in other (non-penetrative) ways.

Hell, even just a hug and "I can't, I'm really sorry" is a trillion times better than cold rejection.

2 upvotesfake72725 years ago

cold rejection literally means she wanted to turn you into a beta orbiter and is upset that you tried to escalate. one of my FWB does this to guys and when they initiate she is internally EMBARRASSED for them. this is obviously different if you already had physical contact, in which case cold rejection = loss of attraction

13 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

One note on the "withholding sex" part. My LTR is a shy (true) Asian girl. The thought that she might be starting her period is the only reason she has ever been hesitant to do the deed.

Certainly. A single instance of reluctance to have sex does not constitute a decrease in frequency. In this case there's a reason for her avoiding sex, and once her period passes, it's back on.

That's why you exercise careful discretion when deciding how to reward and punish.

-3 upvotesshafe6165 years ago

I agree. I try and give a girl 3 weeks (or maybe about 4+ dates) before she gets down and dirty. Anymore than that I drop her to a 0 and pursue other plates.

-1 upvotesredpillerinnyc5 years ago

3 weeks? If a bitch doesn't put out by 2nd date, it's adieu for me. If a bitch doesn't put out by 3rd one, she's just not attracted to you.

3 upvotesunsure_RP_initiate4 years ago

2) A long-term relationship CANNOT be your end goal. You can only be OPEN to the possibility of having one.

When you WANT a LTR, you place your focus on the idea of having a relationship rather than on assessing the > woman herself (which is what you should be doing). You become fixated on your fantasy relationship and you > selectively ignore the things happening right in front of you: her deep character flaws, her indiscretions, and the > red flags.

Remember, women are candidates applying to be your girlfriend. Don't just hire someone because you want the > position filled. Make sure you vet your candidates fiercely and hire the right one for the job.

I know I'm late to the game, but you must know how much this is hitting me as true right now.

I got married 14 months ago with this basic mistake: getting married as an end-goal, compounded with the delusion that it didn't even matter who exactly the girl was, that I could grow with anyone so long as I set an example. This was extremely naive.

I had fallen 'in love', and now I can feel myself falling out of love. And man - it fucking sucks. She can be so sweet sometimes. And she'll blow me almost whenever I want. But what does she do with her life? She works 20 hours a week and spends the rest of her day on Reddit, or otherwise screwing around. Somehow she cleans less than I do despite working 35% as much, and somehow she finds even less time than I do to pursue my goals. She is riddled with insecurities and needs to do a lot of growing up. It's terrible knowing that I'm going to divorce her at the end of our lease in 2.5 months, and I don't even have a special reason except that I want more than what she has to offer me.

6 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]4 years ago

You'll notice that I omitted marriage entirely from the ranks. There is no level 4.

There's a reason for that.

Once you get married, you lose the ability to threaten a woman with demotion. When she becomes your wife, she steps outside of the reward/punishment scheme and she is no longer beholden to you.

Your power comes from your ability to walk away.

Remember that for next time. Never marry a bitch, NO MATTER HOW GOOD SHE IS.

Because all it takes is for the hormones to subside for you two to become bored with each other. And then your real problems begin.

60 upvotessaltinado5 years ago

The levels stuff was overboard, women aren't perfect, and they unintentionally and intentionally make mistakes. Try dialing that shit down a notch to deal with real human beings.

38 upvotesCant_Tell_Me_Nothin5 years ago

I think a lot of guys are here precisely because they followed this advice in the first place. They gave women too much benefit of the doubt under the excuse that "no one is perfect." It's true that no one is perfect, but it doesn't mean that you should keep highly imperfect people around to mess with your life. Sometimes you need stricter boundaries, or to actually cut people off.

Giving a pass to intentional mistakes is the definition of being a pushover.

5 upvotescirclhat5 years ago

This, I always felt I was taking the easy way out and tried to improve myself, become a better leader, I always place blame on myself.

This only band aids a huge gaping wound, for a time it will seem like things are fine, you will keep putting on band aids but the wound never heals.

That wound is called obligation , you may think things is starting to improve but she is doing it out of obligation and is settling. If a women thinks she can find a better man do not stand in her way, because this is what it all comes down too.

If you are the best she believes she can get she will not ever cross you, however it goes both ways, if you fail at being alpha you can never recover.

I like the PUA concept, a girl decides if she will fuck you within the first 5 minutes, in that first 5 minutes you set the stage for the entire relationship.

The deep meaning behind shit test, and the reason a girl refuses sex is because she believes their is a better guy out there and she will only have sex with you because she will try to settle, so I agree, cut her off, she was probably alpha windowed and you don't measure up.

48 upvotesInvalidity5 years ago

If you're going to treat another person as a real human being, you're going to hold them accountable for their actions. This levels thing makes everything seem autonomous, but in reality, it is providing the basis for accountability.

The problem with most men is that they believe treating women as "real human beings" equates to treating them as though they are weaker and incapable of thinking clearly. That is true sexism and it is widely practiced amongst the male population.

Women are real human beings and real human beings must be held accountable for their actions.

37 upvotessaltinado5 years ago

Oh hell yes, don't be a doormat, but also don't demand perfection from an imperfect being. If a buddy cancels on you last minute, you don't cut him out of your life, you reschedule and move on like a not-OCD afflicted person. Treating someone like a real human being means expecting the best of them but forgiving stupid shit.

32 upvotesInvalidity5 years ago

You've got to understand that the while the first few instances of "stupid shit" may be incidental, if someone does something repeatedly, even if it has only ever happened twice, the fact that it has even happened means that the relationship (whether platonic or intimate) is headed in the wrong direction.

If your girlfriend insults you even once, you'd have to believe that she has lost respect for you. If she openly flirts with another guy, forgiving her and trying to talk things out with her will not yield the desired results.

Forgiveness is earned, not handed out freely. I understand that we want to be sensible people, but relationships should be handled critically by men. Your time and well-being are invested and if you're not getting the returns you expect, you are taking a big hit to your livelihood.

28 upvotessaltinado5 years ago

I get where you're coming from, man, but there's this thing in psychology called the fundamental attribution error. It's when you see an action and then attribute the cause of that action to an internal rather than an external one. So if you get cut off at a light, you assume it's because the driver is a dick, instead of assuming he didn't see you because he was dealing with a crying baby in the backseat (or whatever).

So you assume that when your girl insults you, it's because she didn't respect you, and she'll never respect you in the future. Okay, but what happened to cause that? Was it because you snubbed her last week? Was it because she got dumped on at work? There could be tons of factors. Don't put up with an abusive girl, but don't toss out a unicorn because you have paper thin skin and no sense of context.

9 upvotesInvalidity5 years ago

I've had girls say things impulsively to me when they've been emotionally driven to do so, but I've never personally encountered a moment when a girl would just insult me out of the blue, especially if she felt slighted a week or days prior.

I've witnessed first hand other guys who are denigrated unexpectedly, even when they perform thoughtful gestures. These are the same guys who'd get shitted on for minor things and take the brunt of all the blame for anything a girl has a problem with.

It's a slippery slope. When you tolerate such behavior, you're allowing for it to happen more and more. This is true of both genders, but more so with women because of how lenient society has become with female behavior.

1 upvotesTooMuchToDoo5 years ago

I don't think a girl insulting her SO fully fits the context of your first point, but I agree with your first argument. Mark Manson talks about this in Models, stressing that to be human means making mistakes from time to time.

Sometimes events that transpire (that you're completely unaware of) are mentally affecting your SO and causing them to act in ways that you won't ever be able to effectively respond to, simply because you'll never fully know the cause of their actions.

-4 upvotestrplurker5 years ago

So you assume that when your girl insults you, it's because she didn't respect you, and she'll never respect you in the future. Okay, but what happened to cause that? Was it because you snubbed her last week? Was it because she got dumped on at work? There could be tons of factors. Don't put up with an abusive girl, but don't toss out a unicorn because you have paper thin skin and no sense of context.

You really don't understand how women's subconscious works do you? Here is the first big hint, it's completely alien to how your subconscious works. Her subconscious is constantly evaluating you as potential genetic donor for her future children, and then as a potential provider for her own security. When it determines that her might have better options, it will start to send signals to her conscious brain and she'll start losing attraction to you. It's her subconscious that is insulting you, that is disrespecting you and has determined you to be inferior and it does this not as a rational thinking human being but as an animal would.

So the moment your women starts slipping, it's because her subconscious has decided to look else where and is now just keeping your around "to be safe". She doesn't even know what is happening to her.

3 upvotesAudunis5 years ago

I think the intentional or vindictive points should be without forgiveness. Even some of the unintentional ones, like flirting, that show a less than conscious losing of commitment to the relationship. But mistakes, even if they harm your authority (like the cancellation thing) can be forgiven. That's the divide I think we reach.,

3 upvotesikeepthingsinmybutt5 years ago

I honestly think the level system is a good abstraction but I think each situation is something that needs to be looked at and not judged by a points system some guy on the internet made up: different things work for different people. The level system is a good framework to think about the relationship, but I personally think a stern warning about behavior may sometimes be in order before instant demotion. To take an example from the OP: your girl gets blasted at your family reunion and makes a fool of herself and embarrasses you. Different guys in different situations might handle this differently: the 20 year old junior in college can demote her down to 0, no worries, he's got a campus full of poon to discover. The 29 year old who wants to have children before he gets too old might have a talk with her about appropriate behavior, and then deliver punishment based on her response (if she understands her actions and shows that she is repentant, less severe, if full hamstering ensues, hard demotion/next.)

Don't get me wrong, some shit is unforgivable and cutting losses is essential, but mandatory sentencing for a lot of shit is counterproductive to a lot of goals you might set. For example, if everything up to that point had been golden in the 29 year old's example and they had been going stead for several years, it would be kind of retarded to just toss the bitch out. If she had a history of uncontrolled drinking/doing dumb shit while drunk, then she wasn't a fit mother anyways. But people can make mistakes, and I think how they react to your admonishments and how they handle responsibility being laid on them is very important in determining someone's character.

7 upvotesInvalidity5 years ago

The 29 year old who wants to have children before he gets too old might have a talk with her about appropriate behavior, and then deliver punishment based on her response

Basically, you're saying that as men get older they have less options. That may or may not be true to some extent, since the younger guy might be in college and have more readily accessible women.

However... an older man should realize that his remaining time is much more critical and that any screw ups by his partners should be met with even swifter and more definitive judgment.

People CAN make mistakes yes, but as with both genders, one offense will generally lead to a second offense, which will probably lead to another.

Generally speaking, if a woman respects you and is attracted to you, she won't risk doing anything stupid, especially if she knows that she has a weakness to such influences as alcohol.

Would you forgive a woman who has never had a history of being drunk, who ends up having sex with a random guy she meets at a club? Assuming everything else is perfect. You probably would as would most guys... but in general, it's a bad idea.

14 upvotesGayLubeOil5 years ago

Well its a biological fact that women are weaker. Also anyone who watches Oprah or RomComs must be incapable of thinking clearly. Visit an all female space sometime, a gym an office and then tell me about equality.

-4 upvoteskaiwanxiaode5 years ago

It is a mistake to think of women as 'weaker'. Physically yes women are weaker than men, this is indisputable, however we don't live in cave-men times where pure raw strength (with the exception of a few occupations) is necessary for success. We live in an information age, where women's ability to multitask and read emotions is often an advantage.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

We live in an information age, where women's ability to multitask and read emotions is often an advantage.

We may very well live in an information age, but male/female sexual attraction is still in caveman age.

12 upvotesGayLubeOil5 years ago

Lol caveman times. If you belive in modern female strength I have an office full of crying and malingering women to show you.

-5 upvoteskaiwanxiaode5 years ago

If you think physical strength is more important than emotional regulation and intelligence you are mistaken.

5 upvotesWhisper5 years ago

We live in an information age, where women's ability to multitask and read emotions is often an advantage.

No one can multitask. Brains don't work that way.

What people can do is rapidly task switch. Which is why people think women are better at it. Really what's going on is that they are doing simpler tasks, and more familiar ones.

-5 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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2 upvotesInvalidity5 years ago

It is certainly not sexist to understand that women on the average are weaker than men and are not as capable as men when thinking rationally.

My point is that TRP is accused of sexism for believing what it does, but white knights practice sexism every day in the way they cater to women.

32 upvotesDeletantAssasin5 years ago

I believe this aspect is/should be a personal decision. The nature of the incident and the damage inflicted will determine if the candidate can rise again.

31 upvotesdeathhand5 years ago

Agreed, I think the main take away is that forgiveness shouldn't be dolled out like ice cream i.e. don't be a door mat.

1 upvotes1independentmale5 years ago

Absolutely. Each of us has to make this decision for ourselves on a case by case basis. To me, it all comes down to the overall value a person is providing to my life. Minor mistakes here and there are perfectly acceptable so long as the positives vastly outweigh the negatives.

I'm very patient and forgiving, so everybody gets at least one chance to fuck up. It depends on the seriousness of the transgression, of course, but generally speaking I'm going to be quick to forgive. Make a habit out of it, however, and we're through. I've been used and mistreated in the past, I know what it looks like and I won't fucking tolerate it.

So many people are afraid of confrontation, especially in relationships. Nexting people for little things because you don't want to deal with an uncomfortable conversation is not a long term strategy. Better to firmly, but unemotionally, state your position. "Your behavior this evening was embarrassing. I expect better of you. Don't let this happen again." If the bitch responds by arguing, screaming and so on, then demote and/or next. However, I've found when they really love you and are afraid to lose you, direct statements like this result in tears, apologies and make up sex.

18 upvotesRedRisingHood5 years ago

I don't think it literally means she gets a badge and a title, it's a more a personal guideline to determine how much of yourself you give to her

It's the same with your platonic male friendships, you know the guys you can rely on and who will stick by you, so you treat them differently

10 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

You got it.

This isn't a game show. You will never tell your girlfriend what "rank" she's is, or that you're scrutinizing her efforts.

This model is for you, to assist you in understanding the process and making sound judgements about how much time and effort to invest in a girl.

Ideally, you should eventually develop a natural intuition for how to reward and punish a girl without having to think too much about it. It will become instinctive with practice.

2 upvotesAudunis5 years ago

For the intentional or vindictive categories one should cut her off. Unless she can prove there was an elaborate conspiring of events that led to that outcome. Which she can't.

For the more psychological ones like flirting with another man she should be cut out.

For the other indiscretions forgiveness can be earned. Especially when one considers that no man will be the perfect alpha provider, masculine leader at all times. If you make similar unforgivable mistakes she will cut you out because she has not been socialized to not follow her instincts like men have been. In absence of our gut it helps to have a rough model that can be adjust as OP said.

1 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

If you look at the way I broke down the penalty system, your concerns are already addressed:

  1. Only a long-term girlfriend can survive an intentional offense - and even then, she gets demoted to the worst possible state; a plate.

  2. No girl can survive a vindictive attack. Even a girlfriend gets the ejector seat if she dares disrespect you in company.

1 upvotesAudunis5 years ago

Well I am replying to Saltanado, but the forgiveness issue he brings up I think is for the more minor things like her not doing a job once. Less the issues you are referencing in response to me unless I misunderstand you.

1 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

I thought I was pretty clear when I said that this is a model for understanding sexual dynamics. In particular, I emphasized that readers should focus on the human interaction component when applying this strategy in the real world.

Red Pill enclaves (like this subreddit) are the only safe spaces where sexual dynamics can be portrayed and discussed in such clinical detail. That's why we have our own vernacular and terminology, and that's why we write in the language of game theory while we're here.

6 upvotesTRP_Wingfoot5 years ago

Excellent post.

Only suggestion I have is to explicitly state that a man must always be willing to walk away, and that comes with the territory of downgrading due to disrespect or fuck ups.

I'm using this as a reference for my own situation. Thanks, /u/HumanSockPuppet !

7 upvotesWeAreHunted5 years ago

In my honest opinion, anyone who follows this will never have a loving, successful relationship. What if we commit one of these consequences? What if we screw up one night, get completely drunk and kiss another woman in front of our SO? Are we to expect our SO to turn a blind eye to it?

I just don't understand where the love comes in in this equation. If I treated my girl like this, she would leave my ass. I mean, what? I should've left her when she canceled on me for the FIF Concert because her mother died? That cost me a lot of money, and I was utterly miserable since she wasn't there. But based on your scale, she should be dropped to level 1 or 0! Dude, its flawed. Unless I am viewing this all wrong, please clear this up for me!

2 upvotescitidude12345 years ago

That's why OP said his theory is malleable. In my opinion, regarding your 'love' statement, love should come naturally through the female making an effort so she doesn't fuck up. Clearly she isn't going to the concert if her mother died, but if she blew off the expensive concert to go out with her friends, then that's an intentional offense. What i think OP means by intentional offense is that she did something shitty to you for her entertainment/personal gain.

-1 upvotesWeAreHunted4 years ago

Shouldn't we also make an effort too though? Like if she is putting in all of the effort, won't she get tired of it if I'm not giving any effort back?

(Can you tell I am new to Red Pill? I really like the ideals, but some of them concern me a bit. I just want to understand so that I don't lose her by being a beta. I need to become the ultimate alpha, I've been used too many times by women in the past. I always fall into this one-itis pattern.)

1 upvotesZackcid4 years ago

First, guys and girls are NOT interchangeable. Your way of communication, as well as your standards cannot apply to both equally. We are not women, and they are not men. So don't act like we're the same.

Second, this post assumes you've become a self-actualized Man. A woman would leave a boy immediately, as you say. But she won't leave a self-actualized Man just as easily. She depends on what he provides her with. She cannot replace him at the drop of a hat. Plus, if she's risen to the ranks of a girl-friend, you already know you've got something strong between the both of you.

4 upvotesBetaRecovery5 years ago

You guys are heroes of men. A beacon of light for lost men everywhere. Seriously, why is this not on the sidebar and how can we get it there?

8 upvotesneveragoodtime5 years ago

Great fucking post. We need more like this. Reddit has this impression that we're all trying to pump and dump. The reality is most of us are looking for a decent fucking girl who can meet some basic expectations of respect. The fact that so many are ONS is a testament to how many of them fail this basic test. Where have all the good girls gone?

3 upvotestrplurker5 years ago

P&D / ONS is just the first step. When a guys been denied sex most of their life and doesn't have firm RP experience with relationships, then going for LTR is his worst possible decision. He needs to fuck around and get experience before he really knows what to do, and that's the stage a good 90% of the subs are in.

2 upvotesneveragoodtime5 years ago

I suppose you're right. There is no better teacher than experience. No amount of sidebar material could make up for that. Ironic, that the cock carousel the feminists carefully protect becomes the training ground for RP brothers. Brothers who won't LTR their skank asses. Their very existence sews the seeds of their own solitude and misery.

2 upvotestrplurker5 years ago

Brothers who won't LTR their skank asses.

Don't hate em, they are doing what they perceive to be in their own biological best interest. They are wrong but when not maliciously so. The CC has always existed and women have always ridden it given the chance, the only thing that's ever been different is the amount of social conditioning and norms that artificially restrict her access to the CC.

Courtesans (prostitutes for nobility) have existed for all of recorded history. East Asians even made it into a "respectable" role in society. Or do people honestly thing that Lords, Dukes, Barons, Kings, Princes, Emperors, Bishops, Ministers and other high ranking government officials only slept with their one politically convenient wife?

1 upvotesneveragoodtime5 years ago

In other words, the one thing keeping women from making the harmful choice of riding th CC was the "patriarchy". A huge difference from the old days was that marriage existed to protect the husband and wife from these indiscretions breaking up the family. An unmarried woman couldn't prove another man's paternity and claim his resources, and a married man couldn't deny his paternity of his wife's baby.

And on a side note, women who cheat wanted it kept secret. Women who were cheated with wanted it well known. Men didn't kiss and tell, so we ended up with the idea that men cheat more than women because women don't mind throwing stones from their glass houses.

1 upvotesunsure_RP_initiate4 years ago

Where have all the good girls gone?

Sounds like women. 'Where have all the good guys gone'.

-5 upvotesredpillerinnyc5 years ago

Where did all the good girls go? They got used and manipulated and pumped and dumped by guys like me then turn into bitter sluts. Seen it many times. I've always loved to fuck virgins and naive, sweet girls. If I may say so myself, I'm devastatingly good at playing romantic, devoted lover for 2 days to convince them this is True Love at First Sight before never talking to them again. Some of you know exactly what I'm talking about...

8 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

Where did all the good girls go? They got used and manipulated and pumped and dumped by guys like me then turn into bitter sluts.

You've got that backwards.

They're bitter sluts, and so they get pumped and dumped. Most men won't pump and dump a girl with redeeming feminine qualities.

They start as bitter sluts because their parents don't teach them how to safeguard their virtue and suppress their hypergamy. Their fathers are absent (either literally or figuratively), and/or their mothers are entitled sluts themselves.

-4 upvotesredpillerinnyc5 years ago

No, I actually don't have it backwards.

2 upvotesneveragoodtime5 years ago

There aren't enough guys like you to fuck over all the good girls. Nor do I think your devastating charm is enough to turn a wholesome girl into a turbo slut. We have, as humansockpuppet says, a societal problem encouraging women to slut it up. By the time you reach them, they're already convinced that's what they're supposed to do. But keep on doing what makes you happy.

-4 upvotesredpillerinnyc5 years ago

Nah, no devastating charm here. Decent looking but not an Adonis. I was just simultaneously blessed and cursed with family money. I've been forced to learned that every woman is a prostitute early on in life, which is why I have zero respect for the species.

12 upvotestopredhat5 years ago

This is very informative high quality post the redpill needs. You should start a post series if this get popular.

2 upvotesMoldy_Gecko5 years ago

Now, how do you apply this to a marriage? I can't just next my wife...

2 upvotessunwukong1555 years ago

Totally different ball game man. There is a lot of advice on here about what to do.

2 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]4 years ago

This strategy guide is not for married men.

Your power comes from your ability to walk away. Once you get married to a bitch, you can no longer do that.

You'll notice that I didn't include "marriage" in the ranks - there is no "rank 4", nothing above being a girlfriend. That was no accident.

1 upvoteswutangzus20025 years ago

I am in the boat but even married there are certain things that will require you to act and in a sense put her in her place. Obviously you may have to be a bit forgiving, but at the same time she represents you now, so a failure on her part to uphold that is a failure to care about you. That is how I read it.

1 upvotesMoldy_Gecko4 years ago

My wife would be the ideal politician wife. She is great talking me up and shit when we are out... It's the home shit that I am slowly trying to recalibrate.

3 upvotescirclhat5 years ago

Once a girl has been demoted, her current level becomes the maximum level she can ever be. She can only climb the ladder as long as she is flawless in the execution of her womanly duties. Once she commits a serious offense, she is demoted, and she can never rise again.

Damn dude, I need to implement this as it seems the only way to win the game at this point is not to play it.

5 upvotesMOTHERFUCKING_BOUNCE5 years ago

If someone spends their time and effort to make you food or do you any sort of small favor, it doesn't matter if they burn it. A real man would say "Thank you" regardless.

If nothing else, it makes you look good and forgiving and increases your reputation. But seriously, a gesture of gratitude is in order.

4 upvotesGuruDev10005 years ago

That's exactly what the post said. Appreciating The effort

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

What if that's what I really want is an LTR? Does that make me beta simply because that's what I enjoy? It's not that I have oneitis I really just enjoy sharing my life with someone who is reciprocating.

19 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

There's nothing wrong with wanting a LTR. I want LTRs myself, which is why I went to the trouble of figuring all this out and turning it into a guide.

But you must make sure that you vet your potential women carefully so that you find the right woman for the job. Like I said, you don't want to hire just anyone for the sake of having a LTR.

A LTR should be a reward for a girl who has earned your trust and your effort.

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

Makes sense, thanks for the reply.

3 upvotesIthawashala5 years ago

As I begin my path down this road, I will use this post as one of many tools to understand what a healthier and more fulfilling male-female relationship should look like. Thank you

2 upvotesVincentVega925 years ago

This is awesome. An actual formula for LTR's . Brilliant.

2 upvotesForty_Deuce5 years ago

All I have to say is that I wish this kind of information was around 15 years ago. My 20's would have went by a lot smoother.

4 upvotesBlankSurface5 years ago

Excellent! Very well thought out post.

1 upvotesneedmorefat5 years ago

You'll never find yourself in a situation where a girl is giving you gifts and cooking you meals, but NOT having sex with you.

Nitpick - this isn't true, and if it's true for you, you're suffering from some degree of social isolation: every one of my inner circle (male and female) has either cooked me a meal or bought me a present at least once, and I for them as well.

Which brings up an interesting point - There's an acquaintance -> friend -> InnerCircle scale which works very much the same way. You can be discerning with the inner circle or not, as you choose ... but don't be less discerning with your partners than you are with your friends, or you've set yourself up for disaster.

One should strive to have at least two non-family InnerCircle members (but ideally you have 3-5) and a constant rotation of casual friends. Acquaintances are optional.

1 upvotesprettylogical5 years ago

The problem with the ranks is that they all presume sexual components prior to an LTR. Is this a necessary component for progress through the ranks?

1 upvotesgetfat5 years ago

Great Post, I had two thoughts while reading.

I would advise revising the portion regarding giving exceptions to anything that remotely was a relationship. Few women will accept permanent demotion and fewer men can pull that type of maneuver. It may appear extreme but it is designed for your benefit. Going back to familiarity is an easy trap to fall into. Be honest with yourself; Can you keep a proper mindset with a certain person as a plate? For these type of questions, I don't trust my own intuition and refer to my inner circle.

Regarding offenses made by lower tiers. I would argue the respective level 0+1, shouldn't move after any offenses because these type of actions should be expected. There is a reason you were hesitant to promote these individuals. Either the product is unproven or you were aware of quality issues. This individual has not earned enough respect for promotion so why do you care.

1 upvotesC00l_Guy5 years ago

I'm thinking we need to get a best of collection going. This should be added.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

Once a woman is demoted they are incapable of redemption and honestly learning a lesson or is it just safer to assume it isn't likely to happen?

1 upvotesdarthsmokey5 years ago

"hypergamy shows no mercy for the weak" I should make a frame for this quote.

upvotes50 years ago

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-2 upvotescirclhat5 years ago

I will up vote you because I understand how you feel and you brought up society which is really our only excuse.

I don't want to be looked by women as a thankless utility to have the product of my labor stolen from me.

At this point you need to demand(not ask) for more, my relations took a 180 when I demanded more. I wasn't use to demanding, I was use too depending on myself for what I wanted.

Once I started demanding she cook,clean, and wrote a schedule she become much happier, she also does shopping and laundry and actually saves me money and time because I manage her right.

2 upvotesgoddafindbettername5 years ago

A positively needed extension for TRP-Theory! Thank you sock :)

And, btw, the list would definitely benefit from adding "being way too late without notification" on fixated times as an unintentional (?) offense. Even though it should not result in demoting her, it still calls for some action.

As this very thing just recently happened to me with a fwb of mine, I decided to not let it slip and make it rather clear to her that she can stay wherever she wants if she plans to be late again without telling me. The result was a super-sweet submissive girl which was very eager to please me.

This should be of importance, especially for guys who tend to get soft after being with a certain girl for an extended period of time. If you decide not to let things slip, it will ultimately benefit you - even though it does not necessarily seem like it in the first moment.

Thanks again for your post sockpuppet, hope I added something useful for you guys.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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1 upvotesgoddafindbettername5 years ago

I see your point! But as I tend to spin plates I prefer a rather clear cut approach to seeing each other, which comes down to "be at my place at 8". Helps a lot with drama etc.

0 upvotesTheRedPilsner5 years ago

A girlfriend who drunkenly humiliates you in front of your friends at a party drops to 0, and she quietly disappears from your life.

Holy shit. Have you and I met before? The exact same thing happened to me with a girlfriend I had a few years back. I immediately dumped her. She begged me to take her back and I ignored her.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

Without going into too many details about my life, I have to say that this post hit home run with me.

I have put it in my permanent collections of frequent readings so that I can internalize it and have it naturally part of me.

After reading it three times I have come to a realization: if you are one of those guys who enters a relationship as Alpha-like and slowly find yourself Beta, she played this very game on you.

Related reading from this sub: You can be the gatekeeper of both sex and commit... Or she can https://archive.today/PSoxT

1 upvotesLewisf19915 years ago

Pretty amazing model put into perspective. Only suggestion I have is that 2/3 ratio u suggested. I'm a little old school and agree with that ratio when it comes to favors and what not. But as a guy you always need to out do the girl in gifts and things along the lines of money.

Also for your topic in the beginning about girls being candidates that is completely true. I've learned from experience that you need to put the girl in check fast. You need her to know that she's luckier to have u then her even if u don't truly feel that way. I have a smoking hot girlfriend and thats one way of getting her don't chase be chased. My buddy just got out of a relationship and was a real bitch the whole relationship because he felt that he was so lucky to have her and basically praised her whenever she took a dump. The result was she walked all over him. Near the end i started giving him advice that he needs to take control and he tried but was to emotionally invested and the girl was so use to having control that they broke up when there was a struggle for power in the relationship.

At the end of the day...

Only rules that apply we don't cuff em let em fly If she thinks she's in for better things that bitch in for a surprise

1 upvotesGayLubeOil5 years ago

Quantifying relationships numerically feels pretty. Its like if my girlfriend gave me 1.5 blowjobs for every omelet I made her.

1 upvotesTheEmperorIncarnate5 years ago

Where have you been 8 years ago? Could've used your advise earlier. But thanks anyway, excellent and entertaining post.

1 upvotesarchaeopter5 years ago

You'll never find yourself in a situation where a girl is giving you gifts and cooking you meals, but NOT having sex with you.

I have never in my life read such bullshit. This has literally happened to me a bunch of times.

One example: in college, there was a straight single girl who lived in the apartment next to me. She came over two or three nights a week to watch a movie; most of those times, she made us dinner together. I think I made a dinner for her like twice. She bought me gifts for two or three birthdays and at least two Christmases; one of the Christmases, she made me a handmade quilt depicting the logos of Chicago sports teams (I'm a Chicago-ite). I never had sex with her, ever.

Another example: there was a woman who worked in another building on the corporate campus I used to work on. She was also straight. She was also single. She made me batches of homemade cookies about once a month and invited me to her apartment for meals at least four times. On my last day at work there, she bought me a Macbook Pro as a "going away" gift. The only "gift" I ever remember giving her was a sandwich from the food truck in front of her building. We never had sex.

Those are just two examples out of many. I wound up marrying one that I was friends with in this way for more than a decade. Before we ever dated, she made me dinner countless times, bought me a bunch of gifts, made me an authentic kilt from scratch, drove a van five hours to help me move, etc., all before any sort of physical contact happened. How did that change? One day, she simply told me that she had been thinking about it recently and that I was just exactly the kind of person she wanted to date, so we tried it, and it worked well. I don't argue with her. I don't have shit tests with her. I have never gone through any of the horseshit with her, ever, that I read about other people having in relationships on here.

I don't know what kind of cesspool that you're going to where you dredge up only women who would never treat you like a human being unless you're boning them, but it's not my world.

-5 upvotesProfThadBach5 years ago

This is playing games just as much as the women you are railing against. How about just set up rules and make it clear there will be no games. When the game playing starts just walk away.

13 upvotesCant_Tell_Me_Nothin5 years ago

How about just set up rules and make it clear there will be no games. When the game playing starts just walk away.

You pretty much just summarized the original post.

-11 upvotesProfThadBach5 years ago

Yea well that was a long winded way of saying what I said in two sentences.

10 upvotesCant_Tell_Me_Nothin5 years ago

If you want rules you need a rulebook, not a two sentence summary.

-16 upvotesProfThadBach5 years ago

Here is my rule. No games or bye.

7 upvotesWhisper5 years ago

This is playing games just as much as the women you are railing against.

Fallacy of composition. The person writing this article and the people "railing against" game-playing women are not the same person.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

the point being figuratively made here is that no relationship can last.

0 upvoteswtf-did-i-marry5 years ago

This is a brilliant post. Butthurt neckbeards and legbeards will say "mah misogynyyy", but the uncomfortable truth is that women thrive in this type of environment. You'll get better results using positive reinforcement instead of punishment, but even that doesn't have to be done skillfully in order for it to work.

The key trait of the modern western woman is her absolute lack of concern for the desires of men.

Women are not alone in this. Beta males, your couples counselor, her parents, and probably even your parents will agree.

Don't get married, it takes away most of your power in the game.

0 upvotesAlphaAccountant5 years ago

Well done. Sidebar material.

-2 upvotesTheJohnDough5 years ago

Very well thought out post. I actually like the way you make rules out of discreet things you see and this makes relationships and such a lot easier not only for the noobies but for some of the veterans as well.

-7 upvotesfavours_of_the_moon5 years ago

They do need us. Society needs us. As substantive men, we are capable of producing.

Cool ranking system btw.

-5 upvotesLostProsody5 years ago

I use a tit for tit for tat system of reward and punishment. I'm very open about this and make any woman in my life read about the concept to understand it. This might work well w the above system if you are uncomfortable w immediate expulsion and prefer to let the person knowingly dig their own grave. Also look into variable ratios of reinforcement for rewarding good behavior. Good stuff OP.

-4 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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-7 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

This deserves a sticky, por favor.

0 upvoteswaynebradysworld4 years ago

I enjoyed reading this while driving down the freeway at 79 mph

0 upvotesConfidenceMatters4 years ago

I have levels within levels.

After level three, (most important and relevant), I introduce the levels beyond - Engagement and perhaps Marriage.

Engagement requires a level two to acquire an absolute perfect body with the utmost care of it, including best care of skin, hair, nails, curves etc etc.

She must also enjoy working out and eating healthy to the point it is embedded in her psyche forever.

She must also demonstrate control over her feminine impulses, such as controlling her need for testing my fortitude often, controlling her need to be sniping behind her friends'/people's backs for her ego, control over how much she wants to go on social media, and control over flirting in public (with or without me). Now since women are women, NO girl on earth today will be able to 100% suppress all of these things. They'll literally die. That's why it's best they keep it to an absolute minimum.

She must also be 100% cool with me playing my role as a Man. That means leading, ruling, flirting with other women of level 0 or 1 (in fact being ol with either one occasionally joining US), etc etc etc.

Failure to do any of these things and they simply do not advance further - instead greatly increases chances of demotion.

-10 upvotesOtah_Machi5 years ago

That was dense, and abstract, and needlessly complicated.

On the contrary; what you've said is so not dense, abstract, nor complicated it really should be common sense. Though of course, we all know common sense is anything but common.

-6 upvotesOFF_THE_DEEP_END5 years ago

Are we supposed to share these rules with the woman? It seems unfair to put someone in a game and not tell them the rules.

5 upvotesNullberri5 years ago

I don't see how this game is any different than what feminism did and they never issued us a handbook when the rules changed.

-3 upvotesOFF_THE_DEEP_END5 years ago

That's what makes them shitty. Maybe it's a case of die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

2 upvotesCrimsonDeep5 years ago

It seems unfair to put someone in a game and not tell them the rules.

You try that and tell us how it turns out. We'll wait.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

It seems unfair to put someone in a game and not tell them the rules.

What do you think men have been dealing with their whole lives? Women already know these rules, don't you know that?

0 upvotesOFF_THE_DEEP_END5 years ago

But I want to be fair. If having a LTR means becoming a liar, then I don't want it.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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-4 upvotestrplurker5 years ago

Oh this is going to be fun to watch.

2 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

Don't add to the noise. Just report them and move on.

-3 upvotesHS-Thompson5 years ago

I like it.

If that whole game designing thing doesn't work out for you I envision a bright future in the legal documents sector.

-1 upvotesVoidInvincible5 years ago

Love this. Just had a girl at level 3. However we're going through a rough patch.

-12 upvotestwistedbrother25 years ago

This is a crazy amount of reading and effort for something that most guys don't read about or put effort into to learn.

You can read all the TRP you want and memorize all the PUA lines and buy this shirt etc., but girls can smell if you're natural like a shark in bloody water.

4 upvotesWhisper5 years ago

There is no such thing as a natural. There are only those who have learned, and those who have yet to learn.

-5 upvotestwistedbrother25 years ago

Not "a natural" - if you're naturally applying your game or if it's a sorry ad hoc attempt.

2 upvotesCant_Tell_Me_Nothin5 years ago

I get what you are saying. Being truly confident allows your interactions and seduction attempts to feel more natural. But this is not really what this post is about. This post is about managing a LTR, not about seducing a girl.

1 upvotesWhisper5 years ago

Then I would suggest using the word "practiced" rather than "natural".

"Natural" is the appearance one wishes to achieve. "Practiced" is what's actually going on.

-30 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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4 upvotesCrimsonDeep5 years ago

Go take a midol with a Hershey's bar and come back when you're calm.

-22 upvotestedcase5 years ago

Is it really necessary to call them bitches in the title? It's shit like that that gives trip it's bad rep.

32 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

Is it really necessary to call them bitches in the title? It's shit like that that gives trip it's bad rep.

/r/seduction cared about what people thought of them. So they changed little by little to make their sub more inviting.

Eventually, the women found their way in, and they too demanded changes be made to accommodate them, so that things aren't so "harsh". /r/seduction figured "Sure, why not? We've changed before"

And so ended their quality posts. They became a subreddit of sniveling feminist apologists who focus more on "making women feel good" than on conducting scientifically rigourous studies of seduction techniques.

We will not let girls into our boys club. We will not change for anyone. And we will make our language here too extreme for anyone to mimic comfortably while they try to ruin us from within.

We will keep this place too toxic to infiltrate.

15 upvotesRedSovereign5 years ago

I've left his post intact so that people can see your post. Tone policing is an automatic ban. We're not going to let this place go to shit from within.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

That was a beautiful explanation. Sure shut that bitch up.

2 upvotesCrimsonDeep5 years ago

TRP is not going to change for the political narrative. Pack your bags and gtfo if you want to, bub.

-5 upvotesiamokwithviolence5 years ago

This damn post is soooo sexist. I hope TRP gets closed. You can not call your hoes bitches.

-4 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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4 upvotesHumanSockPuppet [OP]5 years ago

By this point there shouldn't BE any other girls surely!

No. The Dark Path to Oneitis, that is.

Extra girls on the side, you must always keep.

upvotes50 years ago

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-1 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

Let's me put it in terms you'd understand: he is poly.

-6 upvotes • [deleted] • 5 years ago

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0 upvotesprodigyx5 years ago

It needs to be said, you are setting yourself up for failure. "Exhibiting loyalty" when loyalty is impossible is silly and comes from a lazy beta mindset. Her "loyalty" will always be dependent on her hypergamy and your value.

Something like having enough competence to not break an expensive object is an actual character trait that you can measure, and will provide you with an easier LTR.

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