CMV: Attractive men often think they're ugly or average so their dating advice can't be trusted either.

NockerJoe · 2019-11-15T03:56:53+00:00

Yeah the male hotness hierarchy is brutal. I'm good enough to get a few numbers and an occasional date but I'm not in some mythic gigachad range. But there's dudes at my level I don't think are killing it and dudes below it who get nothing or very little. I however also see a couple of very rare dudes who do kill it but they don't give a lot of advice outside "have her be attracted to you" so most of them are aware of what their level is at.

Of all the PUA shit I've seen the only one I'd trust is this one video series run by a PUA who's a short, balding east Indian man with a thick accent. It was done entirely on video with cut aways to explain what he does and why with conversations he has, and he admits most of the time they don't go that well. I'd rather that kind of guy explain it than some 30something white dude in business casual because you know that's the kind of guy it has to work for.

erman88 · 2019-11-15T04:53:41+00:00

I think there is a whole lot of people who would describe themselves as "average" that's where you're getting the mixed advice. A 7 calling himself average is different to a 4 calling themselves average.

I had a girl once ask me about my new girlfriend and she said "is she super skinny? Or average like Kate and I?" fyi there was at least 35 pounds between her and Kate but she chose to refer to both of them as average.

rossraskolnikov · 2019-11-15T09:16:54+00:00

Attractive men know they're attractive. I've been attractive and knew. Now I'm not and know. It's very, very easy to know, by the way women and girls treat you.

brackenz · 2019-11-15T16:05:47+00:00

its part of the "luck" fallacy, that is people who were lucky dont think their situation had anything to do with luck

a recent study showed that the big majority of successful people only made it through sheer luck, that is a number of factors beyond their control

Mattcwu · 2019-11-15T08:43:47+00:00

What is the advice is"do everything you can to make yourself more attractive, that will improve your game by 500%"?
Wouldn't that be good advice? What if the advice specifically talked about good grooming, style, and physical fitness?

tickledpic · 2019-11-15T09:31:13+00:00

Women are not men. They are much more concerned with your "energy" or "vibe".

The correct way to restate your thing would be - it's hard to take advice from men who have completely different personality traits than you.

CainPrice · 2019-11-15T15:48:29+00:00

The issue isn't whether a guy is attractive or not. It's how attractive a guy is relative to the girls he's trying to fuck.

If your body is only so-so, you're short, and your face is ugly, you're not going to be having sex with hot chicks. That doesn't mean you can't have sex. But you have to have sex with women at least one point lower than you on the 10-point scale.

You also have to understand the 10-point scale. The average dress size in the US is 14-16. That's fat. Fat is average now. A fatty size-14 woman is a 5/10. A chunky but not super-fat girl who can squeeze into a size 10 or 12 dress, has a decent face, and boobs big enough to stick out past her belly is a 6/10.

That thin plain-jane girl next door brunette that Hollywood movies try to tell you is "average" isn't average. She's a 7+. She's well above average. If your body is only so-so, and you're ugly-faced or short, she's out of your league.

Obviously, if you are seriously unattractive - like in the bottom third of guys or so - then yeah, you are unfuckable. Give up. Play video games. While if you're in the top third, you can get casual pretty often if your game is good. It's the middle third where you have to make some compromises.

smasher187 · 2019-11-15T13:08:12+00:00

I know I'm hot because I get told I'm hot by girls or am told of girls who have a crush on me about 3 times a week.

In ONE day I girl said I'm a "ken doll." Another girl said that there are very few guys who can be called "pretty" but I'm one of them. Another girl who I only spoke to the second time said she's in the fashion industry and would love to see how I look with with a certain name brand and asked for my measurements.

ohheyhi99 · 2019-11-15T04:00:58+00:00

This is ridiculous. Men overrate themselves, and the ones who are dont still feel like they deserve the best.

we-are-men-with-ven · 2019-11-15T09:43:29+00:00

I have seen both. If you look on the inc*l selfies sub, they all look perfectly fine and just need to get a haircut, wear some nicer clothes and exercise. However, I also see IRL men that think they're the bees knees when they are actually 'meh'.

I think men are just very poor judges of male attraction.

dylang92 · 2019-11-15T12:19:11+00:00

I don’t think it’s a matter of men believing they’re average when they’re really attractive, because at most those men will say “I just can’t see what everyone else does” meanwhile being quite aware that other people see them attractive. It’s the fact they think it doesn’t matter or determine how successful they are. I get it, if you thought you were this smooth talking dude and felt pride in your game, wouldn’t it absolutely kill you to find out it’s only because of your attractiveness? For some it just gives them a big head, for others it really fucks with them and usually they realize this when they become unattractive either for being lazy, or some sort of accident changing their looks drastically.

illegallad · 2019-11-15T21:21:28+00:00

I know it's my looks that give me success. I always have, I don't think people who are average appreciate how cruel people are, particularly women, to unattractive men, and how nice they are to attractive men. The difference is a night and day.

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nicethingyoucanthave · 2019-11-15T11:40:36+00:00

red pill often states

Do you have an example or two so that we can see what you’re talking about in context? If it happens often, then it’s reasonable for me to request this

Spoiler: you’re going to find that the advice is, “don’t listen to women’s advice about picking up women”

And sure, I’m perfectly comfortable admitting, “don’t listen to a man’s advice on how to get a husband” - but you OP are saying “don’t listen to a man’s advice about dating [women]” which suggests you don’t actually know what the red pill position was in the first place

BluesyWeasel · 2019-11-15T11:53:13+00:00

I was a fat teen but in my 20's till now ive been very fit and pretty attractive and keep getting more attractive as I get older and I know this but it took me a while to notice. I had years where I thought I was still below avarage and later heard girls thought I rejected them by coming accros unintrested, but I was just insecure. Point being not every guy knows he is attractive espeacially when they where not always attractive to begin with.

I still don't notice when a girl flirts with me cause my automatic thought is I am not attractive.

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-11-15T11:53:45+00:00

I don’t see how being attractive or not has anything to do with knowing a certain thing.

There are plenty of unattractive intelligent people and plenty of attractive dumb people.

Looks don’t indicate knowledge about anything.

SilentLurker666 · 2019-11-15T13:32:10+00:00

Average compared to what?

From the male perspective the context of "average" is the average for those they are able to get into relationship or get laid, which is relevant to the question in context.

The statement Op poses is only relevant if there are other ways to be successful with dating other then being attractive.

It's hilarious to think that what OP said actually true to a certain extent. Male who are attractive already doesn't need to do much to get dates... those who aren't will require a different strategy or increase their attractiveness to have success in their dating lives. There are places online which allows the 21st century male to openly discuss these strategies.

Remember at least for male; attractiveness isn't stagnate and they can increase their attractiveness by various means.

Comeandseemeforonce · 2019-11-15T15:01:21+00:00

Not in the dating game anymore but I think I have a below average face. However I will concede my height and fitness got me a lot of attention.

machimus · 2019-11-15T15:47:34+00:00

Just because they're slightly more attractive than they think doesn't mean their advice is disqualified. The same tactics, techniques, and procedures are probably just as valid.

By that line of thinking there's no advice in the world that can be trusted, and that's exactly how incels think. If you wanna be one, fine, but I sure fucking don't.

wtknight · 2019-11-15T18:46:38+00:00

Actual women have told me that I'm just average looking and I still have had success with them because of other qualities that I have.

Coldinhear · 2019-11-16T06:03:55+00:00

It doesn't matter if anyone thinks other men should listen to them talk about women and how to be successful with them. Men don't take advice. Each man believes he is the best man, and that he is the one that should be giving advice

screamifyouredriving · 2020-04-21T22:03:05+00:00

This is so true. As a hot guy it was really confusing to me for a long time as to why the things I heard about how awful women are and how hard it is to get women never seemed to apply in my life.

Eventually figured it out though it's because I'm very good looking. I'm not what redpill considers a Chad so I didn't realize for a long time how attractive I really am to women even though they all tell me. Well I started to listen to women instead of men and I started to have relationships with wealthy and hot women.

The dating game for me is more like being a woman. I can easily have sex but getting a rich attractive woman is still challenging. If she doesn't have a house, car, job, forget it. If she's not at least a 7 in addition, forget it. I don't need to statusmax I just have to act as cute as I look. A rich girl will take care of me. I'm considered as a pet.

So now I can understand why women complain about only being wanted for their looks. You cant please everyone. That's the key lesson of purple pill.

Tacticalogistics · 2019-11-15T09:28:17+00:00

I get hit on by girls all the time, been offered to model, and just the other day some girl at the club I work at tried to lock me in the bathroom with her, so I definitely know I'm attractive but that only determines how receptive a woman will be to your advances on first sight. But let's say you're some ugly dude but you have a lot of swag and charisma that she's able to see over the course of a conversation, you can get a 10/10 girl. The problem is a lot of guys are ugly AND lame

cuckspace · 2019-11-15T20:35:32+00:00

Naturals, and I'm not talking physical attractiveness but natural "alphas", often don't know what they're doing to attract women. They often try to adapt some maladaptive PC beliefs and even pay lip service to feminism but their inherent natural assholery shines through all of that and they just can't help it. They also don't ruin it all by talking about Fight Club / TRP, because they don't even know what it is. If you want to learn from them you have to sit aside like David Attenborough and watch what they do out in the wild, but never listen to what they say they're doing. PUAs who are able to articulate theories and teach others about TRP are all former nerds who have learned from watching and imitating what the naturals actually do but not what they say or think they do.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-11-15T06:16:00+00:00

Honestly, women seem to have far more diverse aesthetic tastes in men than vice versa. My ex and I had a conversation about celebrities which made her panties drop- Jason Mamoa (as Khal Drogo), Gerard Butler types were her thing. She thought pretty boys were gross and hated blonde dudes.

For me, women as close to the ideal body type (10:7 hip-to-waist ratio, clear skin, long hair) is all that mattered. Men care far less about what women would call “beauty” and far more about physical sex appeal.

There are women who are into tall, gangly, pasty dudes. There aren’t many men into gangly, pasty women.

k995 · 2019-11-15T09:50:10+00:00

The red pill often states that you shouldn't listen to women when it comes to dating advice and that you should listen to men because men are the actual ones that date women.

Lol thats always so dumb: yes dont listen to the person you are trying to be with.

Title	CMV: Attractive men often think they're ugly or average so their dating advice can't be trusted either.
Author	eboy4hire
Upvotes	83
Comments	288
Date	November 15, 2019 3:45 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dwl25y/cmv_attractive_men_often_think_theyre_ugly_or/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-attractive-men-often-think-theyre-ugly-or.295303 https://theredarchive.com/post/295303