Do women actually want kids these days? If so, why is the birth rate so low in every developed nation, and continuing to fall?

MaryContrary1999 · 2019-11-22T02:48:15+00:00

The real answer is industrialization. China isn't very feminist and Iran and Saudi Arabia definitely aren't feminist, but all of these countries have low birth rates. People used to have 5-7 children, but 40-50% of them would die before the age and five, and more would die later, so people needed to have that many children to have replacement fertility.

But once public sanitation, modern medicine, birth control, and secondary education became the norm, birth rates dropped.

There's also the fact that it takes longer to establish yourself in a post industrial society and that most post industrial societies encourage independence and following your dreams and passions, so fewer people want children.

Also people in post industrial society want small families. They want 1-3 children they invest a lot into.

This is called the demographic transition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition

prettyprincess91 · 2019-11-22T04:05:41+00:00

Lots of people don’t want kids and only ever felt it was “expected.” Now it is not universally expected for everyone to marry and have kids.

Ofourkind · 2019-11-22T07:05:03+00:00

I always assumed I would have children. I love kids and I've always been great with them.

Then the time came when I was of age to start popping them out and reality set in. The astronomical cost. The strain on marriage. The uncertainty and instability of modern careers. The disruption to my ability to earn a decent living. The unlikelihood of finding a partner rich enough to comfortably solely support a growing family in the city. The changes to my body.

It also occurred to me at that time that I was pretty fucking happy with the life I had created for myself and couldn't find a single logical reason to add the total upheaval of parenthood into it. Having a baby would prevent me from doing everything me and my husband love the most, perhaps permanently.

If the cost of living were lower, I might have had a different outcome. But things being how they are, I'm very happy with my double income zero children life and wpuldnt trade it for anything. I've plenty to keep me busy.

cxj · 2019-11-22T03:10:15+00:00

[deleted]

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-11-22T03:37:59+00:00

The only reason women ever had lots of kids was lack of birth control and religion.

Why should modern women ever have more than 1-2 kids of any?

Nevidimka- · 2019-11-22T11:26:26+00:00

Each and every woman I know had to 1. wait for her partner and 2. Wait for the right financial circumstances. To have both of them in order before 30 is rare.

It's mostly men that don't want to. I got settled down at 22 and would have loved a baby then, but my 24 yo partner wasn't ready. I don't know a whole lot of men who want children before they are 30, so if you don't want to push them or date much older, youll have to wait.

Willow-girl · 2019-11-22T05:21:07+00:00

And are we really saying that women would prefer to slave away at work, compared to all the joys of having a baby?

Can't speak for others but I'll take work for $1,000, Alex!

Texastentialism · 2019-11-22T03:08:34+00:00

The common answer to this is "kids cost a lot of money and people's wages are too low". Well this never stops poor people having kids - poor people statistically have more kids than rich people. So this is clearly not the reason.

This is illogical. It doesn't stop poor people because poor people are bad at planning and have low FTO; that's why a lot of them are poor in the first place. More conscientious middle class people put off kids until they have their ducks in a row, and end up having fewer of them as a result.

My husband and I didn't start trying for kids until we were 30 because we wanted to pay off our debt and have some stability first. Meanwhile my meth head brother-in-law and his wife who live in a run-down trailer and support themselves with disability checks keep popping out hellspawn like it's their job, without giving a second thought to the financial ramifications. Just because people like my BIL exist doesn't mean there aren't other, more conscientious people who put off kids for financial reasons.

Most women (and men) do want kids and ultimately have kids. They're just having them later and having fewer of them.

DoneBeenHadBeenDone · 2019-11-22T03:40:33+00:00

I don't have kids because I wouldn't wanna end up as a single mother. Theyre universally hated and blamed for everything. All it would take is my husband leaving me, and boom, I'm responsible for the downfall of Western society.

Best to avoid kids, as a woman.

erman88 · 2019-11-22T04:04:33+00:00

Yes they want kids, no they don't want a bunch of kids.

People in western countries have birth control, education and options. Things a lot of developing countries don't have.

boomcheese44 · 2019-11-22T03:06:26+00:00

Basically industrialization. People have choices now, thats why we arnt having tons of kids. The poor don't have much to look forward to in life, which is why they have them.

And yes, a lot in my friend group like the idea of kids, but having them is another matter. The cost, time constraints, and how they can really bog down your life. A lot of my single mid-30s friends should be knocking down any guys door to get pregnant by any guy that will have them, but they just dont care. People are realizing that having kids isnt all that wonderful practically.

goatismycopilot · 2019-11-22T03:44:57+00:00

Giving birth in the US is very expensive you need decent health insurance if you do not want giant bills. Everybody does NOT get maternity leave. My employer does six weeks of paid leave after that you use up your sick time or vac time or you are off unpaid. Also young kids can be little demons. Parenting young kids is actual work Even young kids who are "good" are super unpredictable.

Then when they are school age you either have to live in a horrible suburb to get decent public schools or pay out the ass for a private school that is not necessarily awesome and hope they have a random talent so they can get a scholarship. There is a lot of anxiety in modern parenthood.

The poors and working class are usually happy if their kids don't get pregnant in high school

Rich people can buy their kids a bunch of stuff and spend money developing their talents to a mediocre level so they can brag to their friends. But they are not necessarily happier about parenting than middle class drones.

Plus Americans want to be happy and there is a lot of fuck this and this is really my kid moments that are bleh.

2019-11-22T04:40:21+00:00

It's Idiocracy coming true, I think, in America anyway.

The upper class has one, maybe two kids...partially for status (it's expected), partially because it usually takes a while to establish that kind of wealth - the same-age couples hit the end of the wife's fertility after maybe two, and for the older man/younger woman couples, man may not want more than that because he'll still have kids at home into his 60's or so.

The middle class is the one that actually should be breeding, but they're stuck...1-3 is about what they can afford, usually 2 is the stopping point. The first one is a great new experience, they have the second and get overwhelmed on the parenting front - but they also have two mouths to feed while making moderate money, which is no longer enough to be comfortable, but not little enough that they qualify for help.

The upper-poverty people with goals will have maybe 1, usually in their late teens/early twenties. That one is plenty - they understand that they don't want more that they can't support, but by the time they're financially stable enough, they realize that they don't want to start all over with another one.

The mid to low-poverty either doesn't understand how it happens (because their sex ed was crap or they skipped that class), doesn't give a fuck either way, doesn't effectively use contraception even if they try - or keeps going because they can't do the math well enough to notice that federal benefits (even with, or especially on top of, minimum wage full time work) is barely subsistence-level income.

SuperPutin54 · 2019-11-22T04:40:30+00:00

I don't want to give up my ability to do things on my own terms. It would be pretty irresponsible of me to have children if I'm not willing to sacrifice the time and energy to raise a child.

87AudreyHorne · 2019-11-22T07:46:58+00:00

Any woman who wants a kid can manage to have one.

I dont want kids but I think I am relatively in a minority of women (and men) for really lacking any type of biological or emotional urge for this. But I am noticing some things, and I am not sure if parenting today is harder, if parenting in US is just shit, or if our generations' quality of life is so good that kids completely mess it up..

What I am noticing on reddit is so many really miserable US parents. Ok partially because normal and happy parents probably dont need to talk too much about it. But looking at stuff people who actually wanted and had kids say on reddit, it sounds like such a horrible and absolutely overwhelming experience that takes away people's individuality, totally changes their relationships, and basically makes them into these servants to their child whose only purpose is the child. I think US especially has some weird high expectations about parenting and not involving any help and honestly that sounds awful.

Where I live families are really pretty involved and people are just a bit more relaxed about this whole kid thing, I think it's less dramatic. Few decades ago I think it was even more an addition to life and less of a complete intrusion on life.

I find it so weird that apparently so many US women still have to stay at home when they have a kid because they cant afford childcare and family support isnt really popular. That is a really awful choice to have to make.

People constantly repeat how now you have a kid, it comes first all the time and you cant expect to have your normal life. But my parents had a normal life, work, social life, I had grandparents, aunt, kindergarten, hours of playing outside unsupervised... now I think parenting is just too huge of a commitment.

I mean is it really surprising that people opt out? It just doesnt sound much fun when the alternative is doing things that actually interest you and having free time. I am surprised people are still having kids. We have more to lose and less to gain that people in the past.

Further in the past, kids were practically useful for parents- they worked, helped out, had to support their family... but today it's all about the kid so there's just no point in having many kids.

Coupled with the horrors of pregnancy and childbirth, and knowing how your body and mind can be messed up, it's a huge and self destructive choice for a woman.

Finally I think you underestimate how much kids are and were results of accidents vs planning. Today people simply are informed more and able to use better contraception. For many people having kids wasnt a choice but just something that inevitably happened/happens. That mentality still exists but much less, because now it's really a decision and decisions request giving it some thought.

For all this reasons my point is that it's not women who changed as much the meaning of having kids changed, the ability to plan them, and the awareness just made it possible to make a different choice now. Rational people normally dont tend to make decisions that are against their self interest.

wazzoz99 · 2019-11-22T03:40:15+00:00

Cultural mores and lifestyle preferences. I come from a liberal immigrant family and few of my sisters are pretty traditional, they got married at 20 and have like 4 children. I have a sister and a few cousins who are a lot more feministy, less religious(not religious at all), have never been in successful longterm relationships that translated into marriages and are still single in their 30s. I think some women prefer the working empowered women lifestyle and 20s sexual exploration at the expense of early motherhood that may bring about more children.

geyejoe7 · 2019-11-22T05:16:41+00:00

OLD is a big reason. Women know they can look for an ideal partner if they look hard and long enough. Eliminating a lot of regular men from the picture. Many of these women might hit a wall because they wait too long.

Feminism warped female mind's to become less feminine and more like men.

Etc.

Mulkvistee · 2019-11-22T07:00:50+00:00

Yes, women want kids still, we just also want stuff for ourselves that conflict with ideal timelines like education and a job that can easily afford a dignified living standard. Also you can't predict or plan with any certainty if you'll have a relationship that would be a worthwhile marriage, that happens when it happens. If it happens.

FDS gets a whole lot of shit flung at them for not eagerly marrying dirt poor and crossing their fingers everything just works out to have kids. Why on Earth would anyone with options or their own ambitions want to carelessly dive into having kids though? Man or woman? Better to just be the cool aunt/uncle that does fun stuff with siblings kids and gives them back with zero day to day responsibilities.

Having said that I did get married and had 2 kids in my twenties. The first was a bc failure and it was my first and only panic attack that included puke and everything. My job was my dream, but it was contracted and fickle and I was pretty sure I was going to get fired over it. Technically it's illegal to fire someone over pregnancy, but ballet companies do it plenty and just say it was for other reasons. Not even the unions usually care because proving it is a bitch.

In this puke covered and hyperventilating tear soaked freak out, my husband didn't address money at all except to say fuck them if they cut my contract. He was more worried about the loss of something I'd worked at since I was five years old. Money buys a lot more than "stuff" it's the difference between a blip in the timeline and a full on life altering crisis. Had I not been married or the primary earner I never would've risked pregnancy let alone parenthood. But I'm glad it worked out the way it did because kids are great.

[deleted] · 2019-11-22T15:21:45+00:00

There is no incentive to have many kids with how the modern economy works.

Back in the day, low class people had many kids so that they could have many people working in the farms. Rich people and nobles of the past often had few kids too.

Nowadays, most people don't work as farmers or some shit like this. There is no reason to have many kids.

mistresswhat · 2019-11-22T21:00:05+00:00

Another possible reason is that women are choosing education and careers over having kids. This shouldn't stop women having kids either, because there's maternity leave and government support. And are we really saying that women would prefer to slave away at work, compared to all the joys of having a baby? Come on!

I think you're deluded over how much support working mothers get and how much fun babies actually are. Even women who very badly want kids don't necessarily want to be SAHMs. Have an interesting, fulfilling career or spend your days surrounded by screaming children. Which would you choose? Or if your job sucks, ability to spend your free time doing things that interest you vs spending your weekend caring for/amusing your screaming children.

I really think some men on here have an absolutely impossible time wrapping their brains around the fact that women have priorities besides relationships and kids, and that those priorities may take precedence.

NockerJoe · 2019-11-22T02:51:09+00:00

You don't need much money to date and fuck in theory but that stops a lot of men. FDS talks a lot about getting pregnant as justification for screening for wealth, since you need resources for a good child and that's arguably as or more important than good genes.

Terpers love talking about how being a single mom is great and celebrated but single moms are fucking trashy and everyone knows it. Nobody but the lowest of low class women actually want that for themselves and parents will extole to their daughters that they absolutley not end up like that.

People have kids later because it's more convenient for a parent to roll those fertility dice but have money for extra shit than it is to have the kid at the biologically ideal time.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-11-22T03:37:01+00:00

dumb people have kids more than rich people. Accidental births account for a large percentage of the overall birth rate in the US. There is a strong inverse correlation in the US between having kids and parental IQ. This isn’t the fault or decision of women generally. It’s impulsive dumdums knocking up impulsive dumdums.

G77R23D · 2019-11-22T05:49:57+00:00

Many of them dont.

lilacluna548 · 2019-11-22T06:54:47+00:00

Four reasons that spring to mind immediately to me are the economy, women's increased proclivity towards a career, gender relations and increased expectations by women.

It's expensive raising a family. Many people struggle to make enough money just to rent, nevermind buy a house and all that good stuff. Historically, men could earn enough to provide for a family. These days though, men and women alike are usually forced to work and they often still struggle. Imagine how much it'd cost to have 4-5 children as opposed to 1-2. Daycare, food, cloths, diapers etc etc...It's just expensive.

Second, women are encouraged more and more to have a career and delay having children. With fertility dropping by the time they want to have children, it's no wonder we see less large families in combination with the economic factors.

Also, gender relations are abysmal right now. Many men are quite simply scared (and justifiably so) to enter into a relationship with a woman, marry or have children. The rights they have are simply insufficient to persuade them to commit to a woman. The divorce, child custody, and civil abuse (most notably rape) courts and their bias in favor of women in particular exemplify this problem.

Lastly, women's expectations are out of wack with the reality of the economy. There was a study I saw recently where the "good" men, were found to earn on average 55 percent more than a woman. With more men opting out so to speak, it's obvious why these women are less likely to find a partner and have children. There simply isn't enough men making this desired amount and alot of the ones that do aren't interested in relationships anymore or have other options available to them.

wtknight · 2019-11-22T12:30:15+00:00

The common answer to this is "kids cost a lot of money and people's wages are too low". Well this never stops poor people having kids

Parents in poor countries want lots of kids because they want child labor for help and they need their children’s income for financial aid once they are old and no longer able to work. Not to mention these parents have poor or no access to birth control. None of this applies to western parents, hence fewer children. Young people in developing countries tend to get married and reproduce young because they don’t usually have casual sex and they marry their first or second girlfriend/boyfriend.

RinoaRita · 2019-11-22T14:42:18+00:00

Maternity leave and child care is not adequate. I’m 35, pregnant with my first kid and my husband and I make enough money to scrape by. Child care is $1000 a month per child. I’m hoping grandparents can help a couple of days a week to whittle it down some what.

I can also see why if you’re poorer staying at home makes sense. My income is still more than child care but if I was making less than $2000 a month why both paying for that when you’re just working to pay for day care?

We waited until a bulk of our student loans were paid off before we tried for a baby. We eventually want two.

diffdedbed · 2019-11-22T05:39:52+00:00

Lots of women I know wanted kids at "some point", only they put it off, put it off, put it off, and are now 40+ and childless.

They try to compensate with dogs.

Salty-Bastard · 2019-11-22T02:54:12+00:00

Two things.

Responsible people only bring kids into this world that they can afford. Currently, there are more irresponsible people than responsible people in this country.
Feminist women have no interest in child rearing if it affects their plan, and want to put off child rearing as long as possible, if ever.

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skystar86 · 2019-11-22T03:16:55+00:00

Yes. Most people in my graduating class has several kids.

Foxxellot · 2019-11-22T04:44:13+00:00

I personally want kids at some point. Reasons why not yet: It's really hard to be in an academic career when you're a younger woman. You're constantly questioned whether you are going to have kids and pressured about it. Additionally I want to be in a good position careerwise when I do have kids. Second, even though I'm from Europe and we get amazing state aid for kids and families, I still want to have a good financial situation when having kids

throwawayhouseissue1 · 2019-11-22T05:00:07+00:00

Basically, it is self interest. When we as a society were more agrarian, we needed as many children as possible to help us with our farms. More children, more labor, more food, more money. Now, children are a drain on money and don't do any labor. It isn't in our best interest to spend all our money and time raising children like it was before.

reluctantly_red · 2019-11-22T05:02:53+00:00

Kids just sort of happen. They're actually pretty cool.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-11-22T05:03:11+00:00

When you socially and economically equalize men and women, the only thing to select for women is looks. Then hypergamy kicks in.

It seems like this dreaded "wall" which The Red Pill says women supposedly hit isn't actually bothering women anymore. They're reaching their mid 30's and simply not caring.

Huh? Most people don't enter into relationships TO have children.

TheReformist94 · 2019-11-22T06:56:59+00:00

No. Kids are boring and they'd rather fuck around. It's quite evident

Creation_Soul · 2019-11-22T06:58:33+00:00

Most people want children, but stop at 1 or 2 max. Even the most mother-material woman I know (she already has 1 kid) said she wants 2 max (and is not yet sure about the second). So if most people want 1 or 2 children max, you get about 1.5 children per woman which is way below the 2.2 children per woman necessary for a stable population.

Also, not there are way, way fewer "accidents". So children mostly come as planned due to cheap and easily accessible birth control.

So it is a combination of what people want and the fact that they control that.

Kos_-_Omak · 2019-11-22T08:49:47+00:00

The you know who's have spent the last few decades brainwashing the native populations of western countries so that they can claim that there is a need to import workers from third world shithole countries. this serves several purposes. first, the immigrants are cheap labor and willing to work in absolutely terrible conditions. second, this dilutes the ethnic and cultural homogeneity of the population. the traditional institutions, beliefs, and social/power structures are replaced with a directionless, easily controlled mass of brown consumers who will try to find meaning and purpose in life by taking out large loans (from the you know whos) to buy unnecessary consumer goods (from the you know whos).

anitapk · 2019-11-22T08:54:59+00:00

Because being able to do what you want to do with money to burn is amazing. Achieving things at work is amazing. Having a child is expensive and tough, especially if you want to raise him right. More than one is even harder if you want to give him proper education and a good chance at life.

I want kids but dread the moment I'll have to give up our freedom as a couple.

brokegradstudent_93 · 2019-11-22T12:10:23+00:00

A lot of women want kids and a lot of women don’t want kids. We are a monolith. There are tons of reasons why someone might chose to have or not have kids.

crookedsummer2019 · 2019-11-22T12:29:22+00:00

So, only women decide whether or not to have children? Men never think about whether or not to have a family?

More people in poor countries have kids, what’s the birth control access to women in poor countries? What’s the attitude towards women and their right to decide on what happens to their bodies in poor countries?

FYI Maternity leave is not the same in all developed countries. The US has the worst maternity leave plan in all of the developed countries. In Canada, you get 18 months at 55% of your salary and if you work for the government they top that up to close to 100%. In many European countries its even better.

But having kids is expensive non the less, no matter what country you are in.

Being poor in a poor country makes having kids increase poverty. Seeing pictures of kids standing around shacks they live in, no chance of crawling out of poverty doesn’t make a case for having more children imo.

If the choice was have two kids and be able to afford a nice home in a safe area and be able to eat healthy, kids in a good school and invest in their education, or have 6 kids and live in a crappy home, eating kraft dinner, what would be the logical choice?

lycheenme · 2019-11-22T12:42:43+00:00

there are so many factors that contribute to the lower birth rates in developed nations. there’s a growing awareness about birth control methods, it’s most likely that universal healthcare exists, therefore creating an environment where women can safely terminate pregnancies.

in developing countries, it’s most likely that the main source of income for a lot of families is a family business, a farm or something like that. and children can do some of the simpler, less intensive labor.

of course there’s a cultural aspect. child rearing is seen as necessary and women who don’t have children are sometimes shamed for that or at least it’s frowned upon. in developed countries women have more of a responsibility to work and less responsibility to bear children.

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2019-11-22T13:06:08+00:00

In an overpopulated world of over 7 billion, it doesn't appear likely we'll run out of people any time soon.

imjgaltstill · 2019-11-22T13:33:57+00:00

In the USA, Canada, the whole of Europe, Russia, Australia and many other nations, population would be declining if it weren't for immigration.

All predominantly white nations fed a steady diet of feminist, secularist and gay pride bullshit for several generations now. Is it any wonder the birth rate is dropping?

RT-AC66U · 2019-11-22T13:49:36+00:00

Women dont want children until they want children and then they really want them.

MakeMoneyNotWar · 2019-11-22T15:04:45+00:00

I think it's because children as an investment don't return as much as they used to compared to the pre-industrial age. If you're a farmer/peasant dependent on manual labor, there's a big incentive to have children (particularly boys) because it means that a few years down the road there will be more labor to work on the farm.

Nowadays, what return will children give you? You have to pay out half a million dollars per child over 18 years, and that may not even include college support. What will you receive in return? Certainly not more than half a million dollars. There's about a 50% chance that your children will even want to see you other than on Thanksgiving. Plus with government social security and other retirement plans have replaced children as retirement plans. So other than feelings, what return will children give you?

The-Gorillioner · 2019-11-22T15:30:19+00:00

As an “incel dreaming about Stacy and Becky sometimes” Ahahahaha I think it has to do more with being a decent person. Western society are literally improving and closing the cage for the further enslavement of the hogs every year to keep replicating small version of them at the amount they want them and then the education system is waiting for the small version of humans to turn these children into retarded zombies consumerists for slave owner. But.... It does matter thought, the majority of Stacys and Beckys think they are free and can do whatever they want their present reality but they will be forced to squeeze out more copies of them selves for the masters even if your forty farty something and her incel feminist small group tells you free here you are free there and what not. The red pill crap is basically to push men and women to have children. If women realize this then they would know their power comes from not doing anything. Let the sociologist scream and go nuts with their retarde behavior. Right now some women think they are “stabbing” the incel men where it hurts” because they are clearly dating and still getting married and amazingly they are doing this without questioning that this is a picture the sociologist are painting for them to make them feel that as women they doing something that clearly get joy from. 😆in front Like I would rather not do such criminal behavior such forcing a child in this world and then watch them to be “coerced” to sleep, live and die on the street and simultaneously replacing him or her with more illiterate immigrants who be used to attack the native which they will because of their ignorance about how the “superior class” are manipulating them to the point where they will push them to physically attack or kill the natives based lies they tell them. I wouldn’t do a thing but of course the violent psychopath sociologist would keep going bold trying to figure out how to find other violent ways to psychologically push people do an immoral thing such as forcing an inocente child in a unpredictable world where not only nothing is guaranteed but you will be constantly pump to retarded sociologist dogs of the ruling, millionaire and political class to shit on the naive child if she or he want to do something but doesn’t go with the self interest of the “superior” class. 🙄This is why live and let live is not really true in practice. They love naive slaves which is why they are normalizing immigrants from poor countries! The are more of them coming in the near future.

2019-11-22T16:51:13+00:00

Do you........understand why poor people have more children? They have children mostly on accident. They have traumatic upbringings and so they grow up a little disturbed and very irresponsible. They sleep around a lot, many times without protection, and end up with a kid or three. They become desperate to anchor themselves to a provider so they go with asshole after asshole. Many poor people also come from generations of single motherhood and lots of children. Many of them don't think they'll ever get far in the workforce, so they seek to build self-worth as a mother to many children because they think it's the only thing they'll ever be good at. Spoiler alert: it often fails miserably.

Richer people are a little smarter. For one thing, they want the best for their kids and already struggle to meet their own modern standard of living. Many of them know not to take parenthood so lightly and feel that there are other things in life that give them worth other than children.

siempreloco31 · 2019-11-22T21:32:46+00:00

Kids are more common in marriage than other partnerships, and marriage is more common amoung degree holders/professionals than other. So poor people are not really having children. What you're seeing more or less is a collapse of the rural towns due to substance abuse and job displacement causing many men to become idle. It's also why prime age labor population remains near great depression levels despite u3/u6 unemployment being historically low. Most of the gains during the recovery have been funnelled into the cities, especially during the Trump era. People are resistant to leaving communities for obvious reasons and that's how you get issues like this.

MuleFool42 · 2019-11-22T22:06:24+00:00

"They're reaching their mid 30's and simply not caring."

And that's probably a good thing. There are too many people.

But yes, having families is the privilege of the rich, pretty much.

2019-11-22T23:55:12+00:00

1 Hookup culture. It promotes meaningless sex. Both men are women are less likely to sit down and commit. Most people you see in relationship were never actually in relationship.They are not able to trust eachother on that level. More sex is available from outside of marriage less marriage will be desireable for men.

2 Women being part of workforce. Marriages did not happen based on love. But based on need. Men are not in position to comfortably earn more than women. Woman wanting man that earns at least as much as her is factor. Men aint like this.
In short due to history we are stuck with mechanism that assumes men will be able to earn more. And has rules based on this now false reality.

3 Schooling system keeps as in childhood till 18 or 22ish if you go to college. Then you get thrown into real world.
In past this happened way sooner so people had more time to sort themselves together and get ready to have family.

4 Assuming people are able to assemble marriage inspite of 1 to 3 leading ideology is hedonism and materialism. Why have more than one or two kids? It will not make me happier. I had experience of being parent i gain nothing more by repeating it bunch of times. I want 1.5 children is norm.
To make onself happy is goal of game people are playing. Goal is not to survive, populate,overcome,win something and so on.

5 Birth control. Give option to have less children to people in past and they would have way less children.

Lorioch · 2019-11-24T05:25:27+00:00

r/childfree
r/antinatalism
It's not just women. Plenty of men don't want kids either.

slavicgypsygirl · 2019-11-24T19:01:37+00:00

I dont

bakedfob77 · 2019-11-25T01:43:51+00:00

Uhh fuck kids?

AdolfGandi · 2019-11-25T23:39:12+00:00

The economy. Everybody's paying off student loans and living in apartments, they can't raise a kid well without a stable source of income and living space.

nevomintoarce · 2019-11-26T10:43:12+00:00

The common answer to this is "kids cost a lot of money and people's wages are too low". Well this never stops poor people having kids - poor people statistically have more kids than rich people. So this is clearly not the reason.

They don't have kids INTENTIONALLY

XtoDoubt · 2019-11-22T03:05:15+00:00

I haven't fully fleshed this out, but I think it has something to do with the fact that most guys are betas, no matter how rich or poor the country is. In poor countries, the provisioning/comfort side of the female sexual strategy isn't met unless you partner up, so women desire children with betas. In the 1st world, women have plenty of provisioning/comfort, so they don't need them. There's far too few alphas to couple with them, so here we are.

Title	Do women actually want kids these days? If so, why is the birth rate so low in every developed nation, and continuing to fall?
Author	BumblingBeta
Upvotes	11
Comments	189
Date	November 22, 2019 2:38 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dzujkh/do_women_actually_want_kids_these_days_if_so_why/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-women-actually-want-kids-these-days-if-so-why.296191 https://theredarchive.com/post/296191