I feel like this post will be better received here than in red pill or seduction sub reddits.

This is long already without throwing my backstory here. In short: bad luck with women is what brought me to red pill.

I will be refering to guys who are "naturally good with women" (by this I mean they meet and fuck several girls in a year, pursuing LTRs with them or not on their own terms) as "naturals".

But since then I've realized that 99% of dating advice from the red pill is bullshit.

But so is 99% of dating advice from purple pill / blue pill (mainstream) sources. Some of it even reeks of recycled red pill content.

Most guys that are successful at red pill game have a 3% approach-to-bang ratio. That is, red pill tactics work on average with 3% of females that you will find.

That's cool and all. And I could certainly play the numbers game: approach 100 women using red pill tactics, 3 will be totally into me. But will I be totally into them?

I've also known naturals who don't act at all like red pill tells you to act.

Despite my bad luck with women, I don't want to "settle" for a woman I'm not really into so I can just get laid. And my requirements go beyond just looks.

I don't approach women I'm not totally into physically from the get go.

I approach more than the average frustrated chump (most guys have an issue with directness IMO) but I'm no approach machine. I only cold approached once, didn't work out.

I then start evaluating non-physical attributes.

If I only cared for looks I would rather call this escort's number I got on my phone, she's totally my physical type, both in face and body. (someone gave me her number but no I have never called her, but I digress) than pursue a woman I'm not attracted to just to have constant access to sex. Given my hourly rate it would be cheaper.

Dating advice that DOES REALLY WORK and both red pill and non red pill agree on (looks):

  • Grooming
  • Hygiene
  • Clothes
  • Special mention: LIfting/Gym Red pill tells you to lift. It doesn't hurt. But the most important thing is don't be obese (heck, you can be a bit fat or skinny fat), which is not the same as having muscle. You can gain muscle but after some point (sooner than you think) the returns diminish. If you have big muscles girls that are totally into muscles will be totally into you. This is not most women.

That's pretty much what I think works in terms of outwards physical appearance.

If you have an ugly face some girls will still be into you anyways (more on this later).

Facial attractiveness is not universal as black pill guys would make you believe. Sure, Brad Pitt is hot, but so is Allen Brody. Idris Elba is attractive looks totally different to either of them.

But I already said facial attractiveness doesn't matter too much so whatever.

Non Physical Dating Advice that both red and blue pill agree on:

  • Directness
  • Non neediness
  • No thirst
  • No creepiness
  • No oneitis (attachment disorders)
  • Make the first and all moves. 99% of women won't escalate, no matter how much they are into you.
  • Signals/Indicators of interest.
  • If you have social anxiety, get that checked out.

I applied all of the above and have had some success (no sex still, but whatever, like I said above, I'm not only into sex). I won't delve into it too much because I will make an anonymous post in the future that would then be linked to my real account.

Red pill dating advice that everyone disagrees with

No need to go through all of it. But you know, the usual: acting like an asshole, gaslighting, overcoming LMR, etc.

There's also a lot of red pill advice that is based on totally inacurate and autistic reads of naturals. (This truly needs more exploration and I will be bringing this up in a future post).

What remains: personality

Obviously this is the last thing left for me to fix before I have good success with women right?

First I fixed stuff that helps, not with women, but with all kind of social relationships.

Red pill tells you to be an asshole, blue pill tells you to simply not be a push over. I stopped being a pushover.

I got rid of non-sexual neediness. Makes it easier to get more friends.

Started being more social and outgoing.

Etcetera.

Ex-red pill taught me not to hide my nerdiness.

But there are a few things that certain websites/people tell you that just reeks of recyled red pill and my observation of average guys and naturals contradict them (Dr. Nerdlove is one of these recyled red pill websites that comes to mind):

  • Interesting Hobbies: There's pretty much nothing interesting to do in my city, only thing you can really do is maybe sports (why "maybe"? long story) and clubbing. No naturals or average guys have interesting hobbies here.

  • Assertiveness: Lots of guys with GFs and naturals aren't any more "assertive" than average.

  • Leadership: Lots of guys with GFs and naturals look up to me on certain situations/contexts as opposed to trying to always lead.

  • Dress above average: Lots of guys with GFs and naturals dress normally.

  • Be more "interesting"/"non nerd": Lots of guys with GFs and naturals are not that interesting at all, some are edging on neckbeards. Don't be a nerd: I know this fat computer programmer guy that had 2 different GFs last year. He's totally average facially. Zero muscle (so he's not muscly fat either, he's legit fat/obese).

  • Pursue money/passions and women will come to you: this is the worst, as it directly contradicts make the first move.

And last but not least and deserving of its own header:

Confidence

Much have been said about confidence. Including that it's the most important (or maybe even the only) thing women care about.

A lot has been talked about confidence. First, I think it isn't an switch and there are degrees of confidence.

Average guys with confidence were at least confident enough to approach and escalate, that is cool.

Average guys and naturals know that they don't need to be brad pitt, or have his bank account, but that doesn't mean they are super confident about their looks or their finantial situations.

I haven't mentioned but I'm actually above average looking (facially).

There's probably guys out there, that were in the same situation I was before getting into dating advice that probably thin I'm slaying lol, nothing could be further from the truth.

This one natural I know, he's pretty ugly (not fat though) he's slaying, not me.

I'm attractive enough to get stares and fuck me eyes from random girls on the street. Some girls I have to talk to (cashiers for example) get totally nervous, avoid eye contact, their voices break, etc.

Yes I'm that attractive.

Facially at least, my body still needs lots of gym time.

I know this guy who gets approached based solely on his face/height, he's skinny fat.

He totally projects a nice guy aura so that's why I think he gets approached and I don't.

But some girls like Alen Brody more than Brad Pitt. So I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I'm not universally good looking if that even exists.

I've been also told I have the face of a womanizer which is code for "I totally think you're slaying based on your looks". Ha! nothing farther from the truth.

I'm not too confident.

How can I be both very attractive and not confident?

Thing is, I never knew how attractive I was until I learned about signals of interest.

No young woman has ever complimented on looks (except one female friend, whom I'm not into, and another girl who only did so indirectly so I feel like it doesn't count).

Only old women complimented me which I always took as them being polite or talking about a different kind of attractiveness (where I thought I was simply being told that I look good at that particular moment, like when I just got a haircut etc).

Why did I pivot into my own attractiveness so much?

Well because I notice guys who are non confident about how they stack up to me.

Guys that have shifty eye contact when talking to me.

I've been told I have a way too intense gaze.

So...

These guys, who have nice GFs and whatnot, are also not confident.

So if it's not confidence, what is it?

What is it that I'm missing that is preventing me from enjoying sucess with women.

I think it has to be body language.

I know I do get nervous and have bad eye contact (for some reason the girls I'm into don't actually get nervous with me for some reason, except for one and even then she stopped seeing me).

I know you can also transmit neediness/creepiness with body language.

I'm working on that.

Maybe also I just need more time and haven't approached the girl that will be totally into me> ("reverse oneitis" if you will).

I'm also thinking that the mythical "just be yourself" (plus everything under "non physical dating advice" above) which has a bad rep for being bad dating advice might actually be the "one weird trick" that will get you success with women.

In fact last girl I went out with I tried just this. I also specifically avoided red pill tactics such as telling stories that display high value and whatnot. I simply put myself out there (hey I'm this guy that likes to sit around and do this and that, here let me show you).

I could tell she was totally into me when we coincided on certain tastes. She was getting physical with me

But I haven't been able to secure a second date.

So I guess maybe I just need more time.

But I've been larning a lot from purple/exredpill content. Or rather unlearning red pill stuff. Such as trying to overcome LMR.

Maybe this was all just venting.

Thanks in advance for any input guys.