I just want closure. Women, I have one question for you. Please.

RedMedi · 2017-07-26T09:58:03+00:00

Woah, you need to reframe your view of hypergamy.

Most of the RP views of the topic boils down to "people have standards". However, the mistake RP makes is that it assumes that all women have the same standard.

It's not true and while there are common areas of overlap it's not uniform by any means.

Everybody is entitled to deal-breakers, however shallow or deep. Men are allowed standards too.

elswordfish · 2017-07-26T09:33:30+00:00

I wouldn't turn down a rich man if he asked me to marry him. Just as I wouldn't turn down a poor man if he asked me to marry him.

I like a person because of who they are, how they treat me, and their personality. Not what's in their wallet. My current boyfriend and hopefully future husband if we want that, (I say we because I don't buy in to marriage too much now days actually. Because of the high divorce rate. And, he shares those views as well) is just getting by. So am I. And, frankly. I don't care, I still choose to be with him and be faithful because I love him.

Not all of us women are out to rob ya'll's wallets. Just saying. I mean, golddiggers do happen. But, there's still a lot of single women out there looking for just plain old love. Not love plus money and fancy shit.

Also, you don't have to quit the dating game. Unless you really want to. Personally, maybe you should keep the door open at least enough in case someone who really likes you comes along.

Ispreckin · 2017-07-26T16:38:19+00:00

Red pill tends to only see hypergamy as woman wanting a man that is way richer than the woman. Doesn't hypergamy just mean wanting to be with someone better than you? Isn't everyone a bit hypergamous than? Aren't these men looking for woman that are more attractive than them?

My husband is poor, when we met and dated he didn't even have a car, I paid for everything and drove him around. This was blasphemy where we lived but in my mind I still traded up. My husband was the kindest most generous person I had ever met and that made him better than me.

Like others have said everyone has standards, usually high standards, but those standards are not all the same. As long as both people have something to offer does it matter if what they offer is different? If you are already rich would it really be a priority to find a rich partner? If you're an amazing cook would you care if your partner burns water?

BookwormJane · 2017-07-27T05:19:54+00:00

Woman here.

So, women, I'm going to ask you a question out of mercy. This is the only way to find out. Women of reddit, are all of you hypergamous?

No.

We want men who are our equals, not better than us.

raziphel · 2017-07-26T15:01:00+00:00

Be careful about how you frame "biology." Don't use it as an appeal to nature fallacy to rationalize bad decisions.

arianalouwe · 2017-07-26T20:15:21+00:00

I had to google what hypergamous meant as I am not a red pill-er, obviously since I'm a woman.

I agree with what others have said, it sounds like a bad appeal to biology to describe what are basically normal human standards. I think it should be obvious from lived experience (unless you don't have much of that, which is ok) that women are not constantly 'trading up'. Think about women you know, your mother, your grandmothers, sisters, etc. From personal experience I can tell you that I do not have this "hypergamous" drive as the red pill might describe it. Relationships succeed or fail for a lot of different reasons, they're complicated. Personally, my relationship with my boyfriend is defined by our shared history, emotional connection, common interests, sense of humour, shared goals, sexual compatibility, it goes on. I don't think either of us could rank each other socially or financially or however you're imagining.

One thing that I think does contribute to that idea is that generally, and I'm speaking in very broad strokes, women tend to be more socially conscious than men. Girls start caring about other's feelings at a younger age than boys, and are often a bit more aware of social cues then boys tend to be. This can lead to more social competition whereas men often are more competitive about other areas of life. However, usually social competition is between girls and women. For example, women stereotypically like to think they they are more popular compared with other women, or have better style, or are better mothers, are more successful, etc. But that is also murky science, based on theories of evolutionary psychology about attracting mates (yes women do try and compete for men).

Honestly, I think you should take a break from those subreddits and spend some time with the women in your life. We're human being just like you. Men and women are so, so, so, so much more alike than we are different. If you can't see that then it is probably true that you should not date right now, until you sort some of these things out for yourself.

musemelpomene · 2017-07-26T14:48:29+00:00

Hi, female here. My ex came from a rich family and had money. Nice dude but I couldn't relate to him. Love my current boyfriend to pieces and he makes money to support himself; doesn't have a car and pays other essentials. Couldn't be happier right now, take that as you will.

bashar_speaks · 2017-07-29T01:29:31+00:00

You're being kind of immature in that you are expecting someone to come down and give you god-like edicts about life and reality. You need to learn to accept that sometimes things won't go like you planned. Life/reality is chaotic and can't be summed up with these crass overgeneralizations and black-vs-white categories. You'll try to achieve something and you'll fail. You'll form relationships, and sometimes the other person will abandon you. That's life, deal with it. You're probably stronger than you think you are. You can't spend every day worrying about what "might" happen. You have to live for today and roll with the punches. If you date a woman, they might leave you for someone "better", if you date a man they also might leave you. If you buy a dog it might run away or die.

Learn to live in the present instead of overthinking shit, it's not getting you anywhere. I recommend reading some Eckart Tolle.

Aricori · 2017-07-28T14:12:26+00:00

Women will be attracted to who they are attracted to. There is no formula. I'm not a woman, but I've dated many, and am now engaged. She has a very rich father and a very rich uncle. She wants for nothing. I grew up a middle class farm boy, but gravitated towards city life and became a social worker.

We met on a dating website and I was forthright with being a social worker (a job that's not a lucrative career) and about all the geekiness that I love. She loved my profile not because she thought we had things in common, but I was genuine and funny according to her. Being open minded and loving her each day more than the last has made the relationship work.

Her parents love me and I love them. They didn't question on my ability to provide because she is already a successful architect. Independent women are the best because they date you because they want you, they want to be in a relationship, not an arrangement of convenience.

There is independent women without her background as well. Women are as diverse as men, sometimes just put yourself out there. Lose the fear of rejection and don't convince yourself of anything in regards to relationships.

Rainai · 2017-07-30T22:01:13+00:00

Woman here and working in a male dominated industry, being asked out by guys (some of them are according to society standart will make 'better' partner than my BF) is nothing new.

What they do not know is that whenever I am in a relationship, other guys (because I am heterosexual) become invinsible in my eyes.

How can I even think about possible chance of an 'upgrade' when my mind is occupied with "what shall I cook my BF later?", "have I checked if he has enough clean undies?", "does he have to work longer today?", "maybe we can watch some old movies tonight?", etc...etc...

Those thoughts, plus thoughts about work, about family, about current environmental problems, about improving my knowledge and many other things.

BlankImagination · 2017-08-01T17:34:00+00:00

Are all women like that? No. Are some? Yes? Are some men like that? Yes?

I'm pretty sure that most people care more about the other person's personality than their bank account when they're in a relationship. (Personally, I don't really understand how someone could go after someone just because of their bank account. Money comes and goes.) Sure, financial security is a plus, but if you hate spending time with the person that's guaranteeing financial security, you can't realistically believe that you'll be able to stay with that person for a long time, nor that they would want to stay with you for a long time. Hypergamy is a thing, but it's not goal for most people.

KelinciHutan · 2017-08-02T01:02:05+00:00

As most of the other commenters have said, the answer is "Yes, but with the qualification that women are hypergamous only in the way that everyone is hypergamous."

Women, like all people, are looking for the person who best fits what they want. Any sensible woman is going to recognize that no man can ever possibly be 100% of what she's looking for, she'll pick some non-negotiables and get as many of the rest as she reasonably can and marry that guy (for the purposes of our thought experiment, the women in these examples just magically happen to fit what the men in these examples are looking for). Now, for me, there are basically only three reasons to leave a marriage: he cheats, he hits me, or he abandons the marriage completely. Other people are going to have different lines for the relationship-killer, but if you marry someone--and you're not an immature person, which both men and women can be--leaving a marriage has to be for something big. Not everyone's going to have the same deal-breakers as me, but that's something that should be discussed before the wedding day, not after.

That being said--and this is a big one--dating is not marriage. You posed a hypothetical in one of your comments that if a woman was with a guy (who was pretty good for her) and some other magical guy who is un-possibly 100% perfect for her, would she leave guy-the-first for guy-the-second. For a lot of women, the answer is going to be "If he's only my boyfriend, probably. If he's my husband, probably not." If you want someone to stick with you for the rest of your life, put a ring on it.^{Obviously there's a caveat for people who are basically married but don't want that label/to deal with the paperwork/blah blah/insert other qualifiers with regards to speaking in general terms here.}

emberklove · 2017-08-05T17:43:58+00:00

I find women who deliberately marry someone because of their social status to be icky. I understand that sometimes women have unreasonable standards, but I think red-pillers make the mistake of assuming that women are a homogenous, distinct species from themselves. For example, being atypically intelligent (and more than a little reclusive) has given me a preference for older men, which some might view as me being hypergamous because I'm 22 and any guy I date is pretty likely to be both financially stable and better socially connected than me. However, I've never given that a single thought until just now. My motivations were always to find someone of comparable intelligence- my current boyfriend (49) works as a waiter right now (glamorous, right?) but has a Classics degree with a Latin language specialization (cooler than it sounds, I love to talk with him about Roman history).

I will say this- it's a very good thing that you've developed the mindset that maybe not all women are like that. Even if you're only considering the possibility, that's a huge positive because many guys never will. Also, I appreciate you recognizing that you come off as closed-minded- self-awareness is a huge deal in my world and the single most valuable trait a person can have. Thank you for posting!

dio1982 · 2017-08-03T18:19:30+00:00

IMHO female Hypergamy is real, just not in that caricature way of how it is presented at r/RP.

When dating, the fundamental question that a woman tries to optimize for is the question: "Is this guy reasonably the best that I can get?" This is modern female hypergamy. Do note that I did not write against which goal a woman is measuring this question against!

This WILL vary from Women to Women and it will vary with age and she can have varying dating goals against which they will measure that question against: Get over virginity, Only out for a hookup and some nookie, LTR material, settling down and getting children material, THE ONE (hah!), experience a varied and exciting palette of males, feeling excitement, etc ...

Also the mix in qualities that a woman considers to make up (mostly subconsciously) to be "the best" will vary widely. Being in control of his life and surroundings and being socially and sexually confident for the male are definite must-haves here, though.

Where the RP is going totally off-base is the assumption that as soon as a higher SMV male enters the life of a woman, she will immediately abondon "her" LTR/married man. Human psychology is much more complex than that.

Yes, there are women with very poor impulse control who will immediately dry hump a George Clooney given the opportunity, but that is far off the norm. It is in your self-interest as a male to weed these women out!

Equally, you have to realize that being in a LTR means that your work has actually just begun. That what made you attractive in the first place to land a lady, needs to be actively maintained and even improved on.

Slacking will trigger a woman's need for hypergamy. When slacking, you are no longer the best that she can realistically get. Afterall, she already got a more awesome version of yourself in the past! It is plain in sight for her subconscience to compare against.

This will make her unhappy, and if that unhappyness lingers for too long, she will start to consider new options. This mechanic of female hypergamy can be best seen in divorce initiation rates.

This is what more refined RPers like Tomassi mean with Married Game. There is no escape from the burden of performance for a man. That is your biological fate for having XY chromosomes, just as it is the biological for a woman to get and raise children.

Now, a big word of caution, though, even when playing a tight Married Game there will always be a (small) risk for your SO to dump or cheat on you. Nothing in life is certain besides death and taxes ;-) Never think that your SO is irreplaceable. Always keep your edge of charisma and charm sharp. There is nothing wrong in occasionally flirting with women when LTR/married. Just don't do it in front of your SO...

PeachesNCake · 2017-08-14T16:09:17+00:00

I am engaged to a guy who makes slightly less than I do. Our incomes are comparable, but I am slightly ahead, but he has a better retirement plan.

Income is important, because I value independence ambition and hard work, but I rank sex and personality above it.

Take what you want from my one anecdote, but I doubt it will give you closure :/

[deleted] · 2017-07-26T10:14:52+00:00

I don't know the answer to your question (and i am not female), but i think there is a point that you must understand.

Evolution can be experienced as cruel, but it is not 'evil'. Men prefer women of certain age and body types. This can be painful for women that are left out from this group, but this comes from aeons of evolution and natural selection, and it is likely that men will not change any time soon with this preference.

We are biological organisms, and as such we suffer pains and lacks that come from our instincts and necessities. The world and even our own species are not perfectly "designed" for our enjoyment. Life includes a lot of suffering.

So i don't know if women are hypergamous, but if you find that the "dating world" is not for you, i suggest that you quit for good. Question the reasons of why you /think/ you need a girlfriend and all that, and try to see that a lot of it is just hormones, societal programming and a necessity to receive and acquire love (this could also be biology).

Also, remember that society overrates many things. There are plenty of inflated claims out there, and longing for something you may NEVER experience will definitely crush you.

I recommend that you try to focus all that energy to some other form of love. You can always give your love and work to someone who is not a woman with sexual purposes. This will also help you to understand human beings and yourself.

If women are hypergamous then so be it. Things are the way they are and there is no way for them to be any different. There are a lot of people with needs in this world, human sexuality is a small part of us.

Title	I just want closure. Women, I have one question for you. Please.
Author	givebackremote
Upvotes	10
Comments	57
Date	July 26, 2017 9:18 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/6pmvsv/i_just_want_closure_women_i_have_one_question_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/i-just-want-closure-women-i-have-one-question-for.300216 https://theredarchive.com/post/300216