The thing that I want blue pillers to understand first off is that men do not start off as toxic. Toxicity builds up over time after years and years of negative social feedback. Elliot Rodger for eg. didn't become Elliot Rodger overnight. And yet blue pillers say that women don't want ER because his personality was a turn off (this is only true when a guy is already far gone. They don't start off this way). He didn't embrace the dark side until he experienced repeated social rejection. In my case, I was bullied since I was a child because I was different (autism). In middle school, a girl asked me out and I was so happy. And then she was like "just kidding" and everyone laughed at me. These are scars that never heal and turned me into a "monster" eventually (I say "monster" because as an egoist, like egoist philosopher Max Stirner, I believe that morality is just a spook to keep people in line to support the system).

Anyone here ever see the first two Starwars trilogies? Darth Vader was once Anakin Skywalker. Anakin was a brash but kind-hearted boy and young man. Until he felt betrayed. Yes it starts with a persecution complex. When society treats you like dirt, you no longer feel obligated to play by society's rules. The dark side is about embracing hatred. Men are encouraged by society to suppress their emotions. While Emperor Palpatine says "yes, yes, let the hate flow through you." You could also use the example of Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII. He believed in the system. Then he was betrayed by the system. And then he wanted to see the world burn.

I've been a MGTOW for over four years now (though I've been in a couple serious relationships in part during this time). Didn't discover what MGTOW was until mid-late 2013 but I was one before I even knew what it was called. I was a red piller since at least 2012 when I discovered Chateau Heartiste (and then Roosh V in 2013). But I have been influenced by MRA/redpill-like ideas on the internet since at least 2007. I specifically remember my sister saying that my views of women were very toxic back in 2007. This is why I know of 2007 as the earliest reference point. I just didn't follow specific sites before 2012. I was just being influenced by what other angry men were saying on forums since 2007. Like I would do simple google searches like "women are bitches" "women don't care about you", etc. during my very bitter college years and then I came across men who reinforced what I was feeling. And then I'm assuming they were parroting stuff that they read on Chateau Heartiste, Roosh V, etc. I can't recall if those blogs were around as far back as 2007. Probably a little later. But there were MRA sites back in 2007 at any rate. So it was mostly second-hand exposure for me at first lurking on forums.

I find myself increasingly alienated among MGTOW and while I can relate to incels, I find their environment to be very toxic rather than supportive. The alt-right and Neo-Masculinity stuff does not sit well with me. And that shit is polluting MGTOW. I don't believe that society or some alt-right idiots have the right to define masculinity. Men should have the right to define masculinity in THEIR OWN WAY. Hence Men going THEIR OWN WAY.

If you analyze a past serious relationship in depth on r/MGTOW and the wounds are clearly still fresh, God forbid. They tell you that you are not a real MGTOW and that you are one blowjob away from being back on the plantation. Even though I've been celibate for over a year (aside from seeing one prostitute a few months ago. Which I did because I felt lonely and horny and it was terrible. Because she promised me GFE over the phone. But she was just going through the motions and I can't even maintain an erection if the girl can't even pretend to like me.) Say what you will about that being "beta" or whatever. But men crave female affection too as this is part of our nature. MGTOW pioneer Barbarossa even said that. But BarBarossa no longer has the influence on the movement that he used to clearly.

And I have never enjoyed casual sex ever. Whether it was with a hookup on Tinder, craigslist or a prostitute. I need to feel comfortable in order to get hard and get off. I can hear "Pussy!" "Fag!" "cuck!" coming from the alt-right right now. This is why the best sex for me has been with women who were patient and looking for more than just casual sex. I just can't do relationships because my needs don't line up with the needs of women. I also don't think marriage, cohabitation, kids, etc. is a good deal for men. I met a girl who didn't want kids. But she wanted for us to live together and she thought that she could "reform" a red piller and become a blue piller. But I will NEVER be a bluepiller. If anything, the only thing that has changed is that I realize now that men are shit too. Haha.

I notice a lot of cross-pollination from MGTOW and TheRedPill. This holier than thou machismo annoys me. I've been a MGTOW for years and I'm in my thirties. Yet you have these fucking twenty-something red pillers who act like they are the authority on what it means to be a man.

Meanwhile almost every thread on r/MGTOW is about men bitterly bitching about women. Yet God forbid I talk about a past girlfriend. "Get over her brah." Take your own fucking advice! I understand the importance of men talking about gender issues with other men. So the "go your own way already" argument falls flat on its face. But just about every fucking thread on there is men bitching about women. MGTOW is supposed to be about disengaging from the system. Not bitching about women. Women are able to take you to the cleaners in divorce court because the system is setup that way! There are guys who make less than their spouses/common law girlfriends who try to exploit the system too. It's just less common to see. This is why we have MGTOW and WGTOW has almost no presence.

What I have come to learn is that both men and women are scum. It's not just women. It's a human nature thing. The red pill is delusional. And yet I can't just take the blue pill and pretend everything is hunky dory. I've come to realize that my mother is the only person who truly cared about me as a person. My dad and sister are like a distant second. Whenever people are nice to me, it's because they want something from me. Me personally, I don't do very well with women usually. However, my career (I'm self-employed) is starting to take off. And whenever people reach out to me, it's because they want to ask me for tips on how to become successful. And I bet that if I talked about how successful my career was, some women would take notice of me again too.

It bothers me when I feel used. And this must be how women feel when men use them for sex.

Women don't receive "validation" when men wanna fuck them (this goes out to the incels out there who are bitter about this). Men are using them. Men want to get their dick sticky with a woman because he wants to feel good and to brag to his friends about fucking a hot girl. He doesn't care about making her feel good unless it will lead to her giving him more good sex in the future.

Incels crave validation. But the reality is that people only "validate" you when you are useful to them. Whether it's because they want your big hard dick, your tight moist pussy, your big fat wallet, showing you off to their friends/family, etc. When people mock you for being a loser virgin who lives in mom's basement, it's because they don't see you as useful to them. It's amazing the difference I notice in how people treat me when I was NEET compared to how I was self-employed. It exposes ones true colors. Once you realize that people only "validate" you when you are useful to them, you start to become disgusted with humanity and no longer wish to seek their validation. But no, incels continue to get hung up on being validated.

r/incel, /r9k/ and wizardchan are a crab basket as well. Incels get bitter when they see other incels who do better than them. And then they call you a normie, failed normie, Chad, etc. This is the alt-right version of Oppression Olympics. These men have such a strong persecution complex that they get triggered every time someone is doing better than them. Whatever happened to just wanting a sympathetic ear? "That's gay brah." FUCK! I have a persecution complex myself. Being an autistic guy in society is hard. But I don't feel the need to shit on people who have it better. Just because Tyrone may get his dick sticky with sexy white girls (which triggers the hell out of the alt-right), doesn't make it any less brutal when a cop shoots an unarmed Tyrone for the crime of being a young black male in America at the wrong place at the wrong time. As MGTOW, we should be supportive of black men and yes Muslim men. I'm noticing a trend of Islamophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment in MGTOW. You do know that Barbarossa is Hispanic and some prominent MGTOWs are black right? And getting shot dead by a police officer isn't any better than not getting your dick sticky anyways. Priorities people. The police officer is an agent of the system as well.

And my personal belief is that society is pretty shit for most people anyways, even in the first world. It's just that I probably have less of a tolerance for bullshit than most people. Probably because I'm autistic. Most people don't bother to question their 9-5 reality. While I have never been able to stay sane in a 9-5 for very long.

And MGTOW gets defensive as hell when people point out that their movement has a bunch of incels in it. Which is the truth. It's so silly seeing stuff like "MGTOWs are not virgins who live in their parents' basement. It's easy for me to get laid bro." But let's be honest, a lot of them are incels or guys who strike out a lot.

And this worship of Donald Trump among MGTOW and the rest of the Manosphere is driving me nuts. Donald Trump wants to give more tax breaks to families than singles. And he's married to a Slovenian mail order bride who is only with him for his money. Certainly not for his Viagra. Which goes against the AWALT philosophy of MGTOW. It's already been well established that Eastern European and Asian women are not unicorns/NAWALTS. He's not Pro-MGTOW.

Trump is part of the system. He is giving tax breaks to the corporate elite (who own the system and all the politicians of the system). He is bankrolled by Goldman Sachs, George Soros, etc. just like Hillary. He's not going to bring back those well-paying jobs for men. He's slashing our medicare spending so that the ultra rich can get a tax break. As if that is supposed to be beneficial for men. Just wait until we get old and our health starts to deteriorate. He slashed Meals on Wheels. Old senior MEN are being affected by this. If it wasn't for social security and medicaid, life expectancy among men would be even lower than it already is. And the lower life expectancy of men is supposedly a big issue with MGTOW.

Not saying that I support Hillary or the Democrat Party. Representative democracy is basically a representation of the system giving us the illusion of freedom. There's no reason why we can't have direct democracy today with the internet and ultra-secure blockchain technology. Instead of having to choose between Republican or Democrat, why can't we just vote on the issues directly?