Phil's thread here brings up an important point that most men who are bad with women have trouble with.

Teaching responsibilities without roles lead to “niceness” or “beta” which is equivalent to masculine immaturity, it is important to recognize why this is the case.

Let’s look at the typical case of the “beta orbiter.” It’s a man who hangs around a woman trying to curry her favor and/or get her to go out with him by:

  • Taking her out to places
  • Paying for her meals, clothes, and other things
  • Being emotionally available to her if she is having issues, ironically often when she has issues with her boyfriend, friends, or family
  • Inviting her to events out with him, that are like dates, but not dates. She will deny they are dates.

What does this look like?

It’s a classic case of putting responsibilities ahead of the actual role. A “beta orbiter” is acting like a boyfriend without actually being a boyfriend. Of course, very few women are actually going to turn down free food, free stuff, attention, and support. Thus, the beta orbiter tends to get stuck in his ways trying to curry favor to hope a girl will back into a relationship with him.

If a man was taught the role or at least emphasized a role along with responsibilities he would know that it is unwise to pursue a woman that doesn’t like him back. To have a relationship both of you need to fulfilled your specific roles and responsibilities. In the case of a beta orbiter here is what you have happening:

  • The beta orbiter is fulfilling responsibilities (e.g. doing stuff for her like he's in a relationship)
  • The beta orbiter is not fulfilling his role (e.g. he's not her leader)
  • The woman is not fulfilling her responsibilities (e.g. she's not being respectful, helpful, encouraging, etc.)
  • The woman is not fulfilling her role (e.g. she's not his boyfriend or potential spouse)

Of course, since there literally is no relationship, the only one in the actual wrong is the beta orbiter who is fulfilling the responsibilities of the relationship when there is none to begin with.

Instead, when you teach men to act as the leader or head of a relationship, then you have the case where a man becomes more attractive by being confident and doing the correct things from the outset. He is not trying to back a woman into a relationship. Rather, he is focused on finding a woman to whom he wants to fulfill his roles and responsibilities, and also looking for a woman who is willing to fulfill her roles and responsibilities back to him.

Trying to fulfill responsibilities without establishing the roles is falling into a works based mindset. You're trying to win her over by what you do. If you fall into this pattern, it's very difficult to get out of and it will never work. There's never enough you can do to satisfy hypergamy or make someone happy. It's her responsibility to be in control of those things. In fact, you're actually tempting her to sin by doing this as your setting yourself up as a conflict of interest between you, her, and any relationship that she wants to get in (because she's obviously not interested in you if this is the case).

Cut your losses and walk away.

  • The importance of this cannot be understated as there is a lot of heartbreak if you don’t look for both fulfill your to her and also her fulfilling hers to you. This is the power of standards.

Standards, as long as they are not exorbitant or too sparse, empower you to find a mutually fulfilling relationship.

Adapted from this post