Myth about "female nature" and hypergamy

Sepean · 2019-12-23T10:29:41+00:00

“Men do it too” doesn’t make it a myth.

-Mavs · 2019-12-23T08:55:03+00:00

The problem is A LOT of women deny hypergamy existing; men are straight forward with their demands, as shallow as they are.

DissonanceBadger · 2019-12-23T09:18:57+00:00

Hypergamy is real, but I also don’t think it’s such an all consuming force as everybody pretend it is. Hypergamy is a primary motivating force if you assume sexual attraction is the only motivating force. When you combine it with the other motivating forces that exist in reality, it’s only acted upon when a lot of the other motivating forces in the relationship break apart.

demiurgoxy · 2019-12-23T08:22:53+00:00

Your analogy would make sense if old pervy creeper sex tourist guy was refusing to “date” any underage thai hookers that dont also make six figures and have half a mil in assets.

He doesnt. He doesnt give a shit about anything but pussy. In that way, kinda like most men.

But these women! They ideally want a guy whos taller, stronger, fitter, richer, higher status, better educated, etc

Men, ideally, want some hot puss puss that cooks and cleans, or makes her own money. But yeah, mostly just the hot puss. They arent judging womens worth on 53 different dimensions.

Female hypergamy is as real as the ground youre standing on. Look at any smut, romance novel or whatever. The guy is invariably some 6’, chiseled prince, rich guy or vampire with super powers. Sometimes all 3.

Whats the female ideal in male media/fiction? A scantily clad big titted blonde who sprawls at his feet, clinging to his legs in slavish fashion as he guns down bad guys.

didiflex · 2019-12-23T08:26:54+00:00

Hypergamy isnt a myth, its fact. Women will always weigh their options to fuck the best guy out of an ocean of options. Even in relationships, they will keep their eye out for possible future endeavors. Thats why in most cases after a break-up, the guy the woman dates/ fucks, knew her DURING the relationship, I have seen this happening countless of times amongst my friends and others.

Men in menosphere will say something like 'women wont go for guys on their looks or financial level, they always go someone who is better then them in all areas if possible"

This is a lie. Women will go for looks, status, money and game. It's just guys with more than 2 of the above mentioned, stand a waay HIGHER chance than other men. These men probably fuck your wife/girlfriend when she's in the office or during a "girl's night out".

Guys would be as hypergamous as women if could be but they cant because women desire men far less, the party who needs other less gets better deal

Women desire the top 20% of men. They will literally chase after them, triple text, dozens of calls, pay for vacations etc. The other % of men are beta men who dont have as much value to provide to a woman who gets dozens of text messages from random men in a day, these men dont stand out to her. These men are usually the "safe option" because the guy women really want doesnt want to be tied down to one woman.

feraxil · 2019-12-23T13:40:09+00:00

TLDR; Says its a myth, then defines and defends its existence.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-12-23T11:09:58+00:00

Is hypergamy inherently women's nature or it is another myth ?

It is inherently female nature. Well, that settles it I hope.

poppy_blu · 2019-12-23T10:27:21+00:00

Correct me if I am wrong but I think it goes like this.

The assumption is that women are by nature monogamous while men are by nature polygamous (or polyamorous IDK which one is right). Men will always want as many women as will have sex with them but since women only want one man at a time, she will always seek the best one available. So if a better one comes along, she will branch swing to the better man.

What that would logically imply if you believe this is that men don’t need to be with the best per se but that they’re incapable of being loyal (as Chris Rock says, ”a man is as faithful as his options.”) But you won’t hear anything from them about that.

My other theory is that “hypergamy” is just a way to blame “science” for why they get dumped and ignored by women in such as way that takes to onus off them. It would be like me being obese and saying men are shallow and misogynistic — and enabled by evolution and a sexist society — for preferring fit women and I’m a victim of their shallowness.

Edit: also seeing that some interpret hypergamy all women literally want “the best man.” Like there’s one dude on the planet out of 5B who is the best and all women want him and any other man they deal with they’re settling for. Of course this is likely the autistic interpretation of it.

ThimbleK96 · 2019-12-23T12:48:31+00:00

I think most people aren’t up for solo commitments either way. Seems like a smaller selection of people are. Everyone says men will be happy with one hot girl but even ugly dudes wind up cheating. Seems like women are more likely to leave. And men don’t care to put in the effort to find another woman as it has no real benefit maybe. That aside, plenty of people are also wanting a long term partner, have 0 interest in upgrades or outside relationships. Humans have complex mental systems, we don’t just mostly run on instincts. I think that’s why it’s hard to say what human nature is sometimes. So much of it is social. In a world where up until recently women had little means to control their own wealth and status, naturally this behavior would be rewarded and subtly encourage certain actions. But in other social structures, that is not the case.

i_cri_evry_tim · 2019-12-23T11:43:04+00:00

Lmao.

“Women’s hypergamy is a myth”

Proceeds to explain how hypergamy is real and why it exists.

alluringjustice · 2019-12-23T10:57:20+00:00

Men complain about hypergamy but then love going to said South East Asian countries because they know their wealth is finally high enough that young hypergamous women will want to fuck them and then they come back to reddit to talk about how feminine and submissive those women are and how if they were to get married it would definitely be a woman like them. When women are making money and have solid careers and don’t want to be a SAHM they’re all ‘ugh so masculine, I don’t want to marry a man’. Men being angry about hypergamy is hilarious because they’re the ones that try to buy women with money. Male thirst drives hypergamy. Rich/successful/really attractive dudes can also afford to be hypergamous in picking women a lot younger/more attractive than them. All men WANT that, but only a very small group of men can actually fulfil their hypergamy since a top tier man attracts as much female thirst as a very average female does male.

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-12-23T12:55:47+00:00

They're not even using hypergamy in the right definition. "the action of marrying a person of a superior caste or class." Looks does NOT give someone high status. An e-thot is NOT meeting with the President for important business.

ToraChan23 · 2019-12-23T13:10:56+00:00

Wanting the best you can get is inherently human nature.

Men just call women exercising wanting the best "hypergamy" so they can cope with the fact that they aren't their dream woman's "best".

Women call men exercising wanting the best "callous" and "asshole" behavior because he had the nerve to upgrade in the beauty and youth market, and women need to cope because they got replaced by a better model.

Workaholiconew · 2019-12-23T13:30:23+00:00

the fact men do it too is a proof that a female version must exists.

We like to think the human being has free will, but there is nothing farther from the truth. Everything in a human is deterministic, be by nature or nurture, and thus can be predicted up to an error margin to a said group.

Hypergamy, Male sex drive, Female nature and male nature are all such predictions. You can discuss its error margin, not their existence. And if you consider the many articles which happen to get into PPD, (by both pills) you will have that hypergamy and female nature (or more precisely, its components) is a wide spread thing, which predicts between 22%-91% of the female population choices (depending on the component and P>0.05).

Your best bet is to find articles which demonstrate that hypergamy or female nature are smaller factors. But you cannot say it is a myth. It's existence is not up for debate. Saying anything to the opposite would be not acknowledging reality.

binkerfluid · 2019-12-23T08:20:46+00:00

When 60 yo man goes to South East Asia he doesnt 'date' women his age, he goes for girls half his age or more simply because market allows him to but you woldnt call him hypergamous, its just natural and most logical move

Which is why I think being called hypergamous isn't an insult at all.

It's just men being envious of women having options and using them. Something men would be far worse in if they had the same options.

WavesAcross · 2019-12-23T09:44:19+00:00

you woldnt call him hypergamous, its just natural and most logical move

I wouldn't call him hypergamous because he would be polygamous. The 60yo man in south east asia will certainly be fucking more than one girl.

Men want to be polygamous. Women want to be hypergamous. Its not as simple as "people want the best they can get" but rather reflects the the different priorities of men vs women.

didiflex · 2019-12-23T08:48:05+00:00

Im not saying women are not hypergamous, what Im saying is that men as the same when they HAVE opportunity;

For example, if ugly guy is given a choice to have sex/date with 8s and 9s OR 2s/3s(his level) we can almost certainly predict what he will pick, key word is CHOICE,

Yes, old man will date poor young Thai girl but he would still rather date rich young thai girl who can buy him sports car if that was an option, we go for the best we can get.

Ofc if you are just having sex then you not gonna care much about her wealth; youth and hottness is valued more.

I know when Im in Asia I date girls half my age or as close as I can get to that as women my age are just too expired and old, I just dont enjoy them. I noticed I get quite picky once you realzie you can get better, its market that is allowing me to be that way

Why would women in the West fuck with average and older guys when they can get hot guys? Why date poor when you can get rich?

I think blaming them is silly, if i was an average woman I would only go out with hottest guys I can get online, In fact im surprised today's woman are still having sex with average dudes considering liberal market lets them punch way above their objective value

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Dora_Bowl · 2019-12-23T15:18:31+00:00

Is hypergamy inherently women's nature or it is another myth ?

It could be. I think the idea of "women"(or most things for that matter) having a "nature" is a bit incoherent. Is there some kind of biological drive for hypergamy? Maybe. Is there a mental module for it? Maybe. I would certainly not rule this out, but I would also not rule out cultural or social explanations either.

Teflon08191 · 2019-12-23T15:30:14+00:00

"Female nature" is simply the set of common behaviors that arise from women acting like humans.

But the circumstances of being male or female are so incredibly different that even though we all share a "human nature" those natures end up expressing themselves almost as if we were different species.

"Hypergamy" is just an expression of an abundance mentality when it comes to relationships. It's only labeled as "female nature" because it's something that virtually all women will experience for some period of their youth compared to the much smaller pool of men who will experience the same.

You can bet your ass that men would be just as (probably even more) hypergamous than women if they could. But the vast majority of them can't so that will always remain a hypothetical, unlike with women.

drsherbert · 2019-12-23T15:33:16+00:00

If men were as desired as women, I don’t think we’d be as hypergamous. We’d just keep fucking anyone who wanted to fuck.

LLL3peat · 2019-12-23T15:34:21+00:00

Actually is true. Ask anyone who was obese but who made enough money to have fun, save for a rainy day, and invest into retirement. Funny, laughable, but just overweight which made them ugly. Lost the weight and now they want them for this they are. As they were the same person before minus weight and properly fitting clothes. This has happened to me plenty of times. Leaned out and dated the woman of my dreams.

Got into a car accident (she was with me), gained 25 and she was showing signed she wasn't attracted anymore/wanted out. Recovered, lost the weight and she was happy again. Same thing happened every year (cursed with car accidents I will tell you) and now recovering again. It's really messed up.

One of my favourite articles which explain it damn near perfectly:

https://www.thecut.com/2014/10/ask-polly-am-i-shallow.html

[deleted] · 2019-12-23T16:14:36+00:00

Men are physically stronger, faster, and bigger than women. They can just walk up and rape a woman with impunity because they can. Oh wait, no they can't, because they will get punished and sent to prison.

Hypergamy gets to flourish because womens actions against men are allowed and praised, where men's actions against women are punished.

Manny1400 · 2019-12-23T16:19:56+00:00

I don't think you are disproving hypergamy. Women are presented with more choices than men in the sexual marketplace, and they feel compelled to explore those choices.

Women are not necessarily inherently hypergamous, but they do have a biological drive to mate-switch (monkey-branch).

The issue for men is not deciding whether or not women are inherently hypergamous, disloyal (43% have a plan B guy waiting in the wings, and 8 /10 are in contact with that backup man, and more women cheat now than men), but rather what to do about it. Most guys are lazy, they will settle down into some LTR and not explore other options--but women are not like that. They will actively cultivate other possibilities, even if they are in the best relationship of their life. They only stop doing this when their SMV has declined, or they really have scored a very high quality guy.

A very attractive woman is almost never loyal to any degree. Chaucer knew this over 600 years ago. If she is hot, she will cheat, and she will be married multiple times. The babe is the one who will divorce rape you. You don't marry those women, and you don't commit to them. That's 101

Now one option is to float through life and have STRs with a variety of women. Keep them around for a time and then move on. Another option is to simply go mgtow. But if you want kids, and to be a father, you are going to be stuck.

Orange_Paisley · 2019-12-23T16:27:12+00:00

I made more money than my first husband (who I divorced for reasons other than hypergamy) and I make more than my fiancé. Lots of women these days have careers and their own money. Do some of them only want to date and marry wealthy men? Sure. Are there plenty of women like me who don’t care what their man makes as long as they are contributing value in a relationship? Also sure.

El_Guapo2020 · 2019-12-23T16:32:18+00:00

The so called myth exist as a simplified version of the observable phenomenon. If it happens it not a ‘myth’ ( an untruth)

Just because men would do it to if they had the chance doesn’t change the fact that women do it just because the behavior isn’t exclusive to women doesn’t change the fact that women indulge in the behave to the point were men should aware of it and defend themselves against the more obvious harmful results of the hypergamous behavior in women

wenoopic · 2019-12-23T16:45:58+00:00

women are hypergamous simply because they can be

That's exactly what the red pill says.

It is not a moral point. The red pill is practical. It is irrelevant if men also are "hypergamous".

The point, and the importance of it, is that men are commonly blue pilled into believing on a corny fantasy that means that women "fall in love" with a man, and only one man, for magical superstitious reasons, that turn a woman as a kind of one, and only one, man's property. It makes blue pilled men believe, that once they "secured love" from a woman, she turns into a personal property. So the red pill explains that women are human beings following their own interest, and women will leave a man as soon as they get the opportunity of getting a better man, so there is no fantasy, and no point on expecting that a woman will stay on a relationship just because she "fell in love".

The corollary, is that a man has to maintain the relationship all the time. He cannot turn lazy, expecting to keep being loved just because the woman loved him on the past.

Women don't care how much effort and investment the man did on the past. It does not permanently buys the woman.

The red pill theorizes that hypergamy is good for humanity, because it promotes survival, and helps evolution. It is a practical, down to earth knowledge, not a moral judgment on the evilness of women.

You have an immature, childish brain, that makes you interpret that it is saying that women are evil, and that's why you are "counter argumenting" that men also "are evil", or hypergamous. It is typical of child to compete against each other for moral points, and not understanding the complexities of reality.

Your understanding is typical of men who cannot abandon the fantasies, and see reality. It leads to the "red pill rage", which is a disease common in MGTOW and incel communities.

Most women see it the same way, because, as the red pill says, most women never pass their teenage level of maturity, so instead of attending to the argument, most women stop at the emotions they feel, which are negative, because they feel finger pointed by the red pill.

You simply have to mature, so you can see what is important on what the red pill says, instead of seeing it as a brat fight.

MuleFool42 · 2019-12-23T16:51:16+00:00

I agree with what you're saying but it's a distinction without a difference. As men are not in as much of a position to exercise hypergamy, it's primarily attached to female nature.

If as many men were exercising hypergamy as women then it would be perceived more as what you're saying - human nature.

[deleted] · 2019-12-23T18:22:55+00:00

In reality there is 0 hard evidence that it's caused by biology, but even if only women are hypergamous, that's a good thing. Why shouldn't women only want the best? Most men have nothing to offer to women anyway. TRPillers paint hypergamy in a negative light because they have a male bias.

SILENTSAM69 · 2019-12-23T20:07:25+00:00

Women date up, women date down. Do not get too caught up on if it is dating, just sex, or an LTR. The semantics are irrelevant.

You call it a myth, but actually help highlight it. Men going for younger women is dating down.

Mythopoeias-69 · 2019-12-23T22:39:24+00:00

Hypergamy is real, it's not a myth. The need of the selfish gene to maximize the chances of its reproductive success is real.

I'd argue that since women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of commitment, we see far more examples of female hypergamy than examples of male hypergamy because we live in a world where, sadly, sex is valued more (its more hip and cool) than commitment.

DubsPackage · 2019-12-24T02:09:50+00:00

Do women desire men far less?

Or is it just that the state supplies those needs (provision/protection) so there is no need for a man in the house.

I would argue that .gov has replaced men as the husband by taxing all men and using their own money.

Women get the benefits of being married (provision/protection) without actually being married.

I would argue that yes, hypergamy is indeed female nature.

Men care about "quantity" not "quality."

Men aren't hypergamous, men are polygamous.

Marriage attempts to sanction both polygamy and hypergamy in order to curb those instincts.

But even there, "society" benefits women over men.

To a certain degree, women can afford to be "better humans" because legally and socially everything is in their favor.

"Society" = Women

Men can be part of society only insofar as providing service to it.

But we're not really part of it, we don't get benefits for being part of society.

Only women get benefits for being part of society.

khaste · 2019-12-24T04:16:46+00:00

Men dont choose to date down , a lot of them are forced to if they want a relationship these days.

From this happening to men this allows unattractive to average women get a better looking man.

[deleted] · 2019-12-24T10:57:22+00:00

Female nature...part of it is protecting men's feelings, apparently.

El_Guapo2020 · 2019-12-24T16:28:57+00:00

I don’t think she was lying , he was just they guy who had slept with everyone he was actually a terrible lover and all the girl talk about how he was a minute man , still he had them all. I don’t think girls even know why they sleep with chad it’s just a law of nature

grand_tiremaster · 2019-12-23T09:13:49+00:00

If hypergamy was true for all women then I’d be with some rich dude already.. going on trips to Cabo and getting spoiled like how rich boyfriends spoil their girlfriend. But that ain’t happening lol. Doesn’t matter how rich the fella is.. he isn’t my bf. Like yeah I’ll just piss away months of laughs, tears, joy, intimacy, and connection for some high roller rando. No.

flyinghorse1 · 2019-12-23T13:33:04+00:00

Why I don't believe in hypergamy:

I'm medium to low income, not high status socially, not alpha (I'm a relaxed person, mostly), not super buff, only 5'11, okayish face but not hot. And despite all this I've dated lawyers, accountants, businesswomen (and tons of average tier jobs) who have all been at least average in terms of looks. I can say for sure that some of these women were definitely not dating up with me!

I think the only thing i'm better at then a lot of men is i'm genuinely a good listener, empathetic, and decent at holding a conversations - but non of these are valued traits in the manosphere.

Maecenas13 · 2019-12-23T12:26:43+00:00

No one reasonable would deny that males also attempt to punch above their weight. I think the more meaningful criticism of dating dynamics these days is that the ease with which women can procure a one night stand from a better looking man establishes an unrealistic baseline standard for the men she meets moving forward. "I had a fwb with X when I was 22. Why should I settle for Y when I'm 30 when he's not as good looking?" in other words.

AntifaSuperSwoledier · 2019-12-23T13:17:47+00:00

The way TRPers use it borders on myth or bad science. There are sex differences in hypergamy for men and women. Female hypergamy is related to resources, not physical attraction. Women are more likely to pick partners who have higher economic or social status. Regarding attraction, men try to select more physically attractive partners.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3390172

This does not tell us that women are always vigilant for a new mate. It doesn't tell us that they will leave a mate they have already selected for a better one. In fact since men have much higher rates of infidelity, we usually see this behavior from the other direction. It is more common for a man to leave a woman for another woman.

There is also a major confound when studying hypergamy in humans:

even random matching will result in patterns where husbands have higher earnings than their wives.

Are women even engaging in significant hypergamous behavior? Keep in mind there is little research on human hypergamous behavior. What we see is a very mild effect and something TRP usually does not discuss as a feature of hypergamy: women are more likely to be partnered than men. This is really all there is at the moment - women select men with stronger resources and are more likely to be partnered.

k995 · 2019-12-23T09:44:38+00:00

what these men fail to see is that women are hypergamous simply because they can be, men desire them so much so they can easily aim for guy of much higher caliber than they are.

...

When 60 yo man goes to South East Asia he doesnt 'date' women his age, he goes for girls half his age or more simply because market allows him to but you woldnt call him hypergamous, its just natural and most logical move

Both these comments nicely show why this hypergamy is nonsense . If women consistantly get "better" men then their status its just because thats what they normally get, nothing hyper/"higher" about this, but when its men then all of a sudden its "normal" .

ifelsedowhile · 2019-12-23T08:42:09+00:00

Women have to endure pregnancy and weaning, mating is far more costly for them so they have to vet much more carefully any potential mate. that's why they are highly selective. if they were totally free of expressing their sexuality without constraints, they would form harems with alphas. it's what is already happening in the black community where women have substituted beta providing husbands with the ultimate alpha, the government.

Title	Myth about "female nature" and hypergamy
Author	didiflex
Upvotes	60
Comments	201
Date	December 23, 2019 8:12 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/eehqwe/myth_about_female_nature_and_hypergamy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/myth-about-female-nature-and-hypergamy.302684 https://theredarchive.com/post/302684