Thread is closed, this is the internet. I don't care what you think about me I was just sharing my experience. Believe me or not, it makes no difference.
My gf broke up with me yesterday and the reason I understood is because I don't have a job and she thinks I am broke.
I am an engineering student(my parents set me up with a college fund that pays all of my expenses) and I have saved and invested my money wisely my whole life and I am proud of my current financial situation. If I follow my current plan I will be buying my first house before I turn 25.
The day we broke up she pushed very hard to see how much money I have and how I make money but I stuck to the advice my dad taught me to never tell anyone how much you make/have. She couldn't understand why I did not want to tell her and kept saying I should tell her since shes my GF. Her reasoning for why I should tell her how much money I have is because she is my GF.
I should have broken up with her on the spot. Instead she broke up with me less than 2 hours later by text.
She told me I have no job, no motivation and no life goals and that she deserves better.
I didn't even try to argue against it because I know that I deserve better. This made her very upset and today she messaged me saying she misses me.
I didn't reply and I won't be talking to her again.
Lesson learned: If a woman asks how much you make, break it off ASAP.
Update: thanks to everyone with kind words. She messaged me while today saying she has reconsidered and would like to try again. No thanks, no reply.
To everyone saying I'm beta or she thinks I'm beta, im not going to argue with you because that's beta and because any of the arguments I could use will just sound like I'm lying and trying to impress a bunch of people online.
Other important lesson(I think I heard it on TRP first): never emotionally invest yourself more into a relationship than she has invested herself.
Update two: If you think I'm less of a man because I have a successful dad then you're fucking inbred. This girl is 18, I am 21 and if you can't get over the fact that some people in this world are set up better than others for whatever reason then you may as well kill yourself now because you're never going to survive.
This reminds me of a story...
A few years back, Scott Baio (from the television show Charles in Charge) was a guest on Howard Stern's radio show. As you may or may not know, Scott Baio is one of one of Hollywood's most notorious womanizers. He himself estimates that he's had sex with over a thousand women in his life. He's dated Pamela Anderson, Erika Eleniak, Nicole Eggert, Natalie Raitano, Nicolette Sheridan, Denise Richards, Julie McCullough, and Heather Locklear to name a few. At one point he was temporarily banned from the Playboy Mansion because he was hooking up with too many Playmates... some of whom were involved with Hugh Hefner at the time.
Anyways, while being interviewed by Howard Stern, he was asked to rank the sexual skills of the famous women he slept with on a scale of 1 to 10. Some of the women, like Heather Locklear and Beverly D'Angelo, ranked 10 on the scale.
Denise Richards only ranked a 3, and Scott mentioned that while they were having sex she kept asking him how much money he made.
Gold diggers gonna gold dig.
heather locklear... of course she was 10/10
In the interview, Scott referred to Heather Locklear as the best lover he's ever had. He also called her "the one that got away."
Sounds like Scott still had a bit of Oneitis for her even though they broke up years before the interview.
In fairness, Oneitis for Heather Locklear in her prime is understandable.
even Spin City Locklear was a solid 9
I was thinking the exact same thing. She must have been in her 40's when she was on Spin City, but was easily hotter than most women in their 20's. It's almost supernatural; perhaps she bathes in the blood of virgins.
Now, I dont know how true this is even with multiple google referances but then again this is the internet, but supposedly her secret anti aging cream is, nut
She still looks pretty great. I saw a picture of her a year or so ago standing next to her daughter. Heather is like 52 or 53 now and she looks 10-15 years younger than that.
Speaking of Heather's daughter: she's like 17 or 18 years old and she looks exactly like a younger version of her mom.
She's a rich and famous celebrity: she can afford a personal trainer, regular spa treatments, hair and makeup artists, and a nutritionist to make sure she eats healthy. I'm sure her youthful looks have a lot to do with those things.
Locklear is just now starting to show her age I think. Even 10 years ago she was probably a 9. She's now 53! Still though, she's in better shape than probably 90% of women her same age. Genetic goldmine too.
Speaking of - her daughter is a 10/10 too. And after looking up her birthday - she's currently 17.
Interesting... she always struck me as the dumb blonde bimbo who had her looks going for her and wasn't even that great in bed because of that.
Tommy Lee from Motley Crue was married to Heather Locklear for a while. In Motley Crue's autobiography The Dirt, Tommy recalls that the first time he and Heather had sex she let him take Polaroid photographs. The next morning in the studio Tommy showed them to the other members of his band to prove to them that he'd just banged Heather Locklear.
So apparently she isn't as prudish as you'd think.
That's probably because she is/was way out of your league. So, you then made an incorrect assumption about her, based on ... what?
That she had the look of the stereotypical all-american girl/cheerleader type, and we know how these are (or were) presented in the 80s/90s.
And the fact that I associate naughtyness more with redheads and dark-haired women, but that's just my taste.
They both have that vibe about them too.
Was gonna say: based on some D'Angelo's films, I imagine she'd be tons of fun in the sack.
It's been a long time since I listened to the interview with Scott, but I seem to recall him saying that Beverly D'Angelo gives amazing blowjobs.
Well duh mate, it's pretty crucial factor to a golddigger's ability to orgasm. For a lot of women, orgasm requires an incredible amount of mental comfortability before they can have one. Goldies are no different... Just... Different.
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The graph for my transformation from liberal to conservative looks about the same as the one for my change from beta-ness to alpha-ness.
90-something percent of the liberals on my Facebook stream are constantly posting either 1) Social justice outrage du jour or 2) Posts about how they can't seem to keep their life in order (asking others if they know about jobs, or if anyone knows a place they can live, or complaining about how hard life is).
I've experienced the same thing. It seems like the vast majority of guys I know on Facebook whom I would describe as betas and omegas have liberal political views. Particularly my brother and his circle of friends; they are all far-left liberal (some even openly identify as socialists), and they are all super beta pansies.
Meanwhile, it seems like most of the guys I know who are alpha have either conservative or libertarian political views.
Although there are exceptions. A lot of the religious conservative guys I know are beta to the max. And I know a few omega fedora-wearing neckbeards who identify as libertarian. But for the most part it does seem like betas gravitate towards liberalism while alphas gravitate towards conservatism or libertarianism.
To the victors go the spoils
Hah, the laughs that libtarded friends of friends provide through their posts. I lost the best example in my Facebook circle when I put the smackdown on her race baiting shit after the Michael Brown shooting. Fond memories.
I went through the same progression, strikes me that once you go from being a "have-not" to a "have", you abandon most of your socialist nature. Once you've worked your ass off to get into the top 20% you have nothing but contempt for the losers asking for handouts while sitting on their asses watching Netflix.
"Liberalism is an inherantly beta political mindset"... Lol.
And yet the famous PUA Mystery (of Mystery Method, trainer and instructor of Owen Cook, aka Tyler Durden of RSD fame) stole a girl off of him.
Then Denise hooked up with Charlie Sheen and he is paying big time.
"No job/motivation/life goals" yet you're an engineering student?! You should have dumped her; not for being a gold-digger, but for being a moron.
This often goes hand in hand, though not so much a moron and more the opportunist. Telling women you're not made of money is a pretty good filter for the lazy and the gold-diggers (to paraphrase Machiavelli: "You won't go broke maintaining a reputation as a person of careful expenditure").
I've seen some otherwise-brilliant women play this game (the standard motto is "You can marry more in five minutes than you can earn in 50 years"). Of course then they complain about being oppressed and having a meaningless life.
Smart, interesting women are busy making their own lives and careers rather than trying to find their way into someone else's prospectus like they've been told to do by Cosmo and the sorority house.
They're worth finding, but if all you've done is pump iron and hang in bars they may not be very interested in you - time to up the overall game.
When I met my wife, I was a poor, struggling freelancer (unemployed). And yep, she had plenty of background and accomplishments herself and didn't seem worried a bit about my situation. Turned out, I parlayed my diverse freelance experience into a really solid full time gig and now make more money than ever.
If she were fretting about my money situation from the get-go, she would quite likely not be in my life now.
Exactly, smart girls can see the potential in a guy and will choose to stick with him.
Your wife made a good decision and honestly it's OP's fault for not screening better.
Also, college girls. Some are stupidly shallow.
My GF was essentially carrying me while I dumped money in my business because she believed in me. (can never be 100% sure, but I'm strongly of the opinion that it wasn't "belief," but real).
Of course she's excited that it's going to slingshot me into earning much, much more money, but she understands what it takes to get there. Very supportive of my goals.
But who wants a career woman? I think if a woman is going to fullfill the wife/stay-at-home mom role, it's important for her to filter for somebody financially stable.
Obviously avoid gold diggers, but if you are looking for LTR material, somebody financially independent and career-driven doesn't exactly sound like good mate material.
Unfortunately, I don't think many stay at home mothers are happy these days. I know quite a few - my ex wife was a "full time mommy" and hung out with a lot of women in the same boat. A full half of my coworkers have stay at home wives. I don't see much appreciation for the easy life their husbands provide for them.
The ones I've met are bitchy and moody. They dump the kids on hubby as soon as he walks in the door because they "deserve some time off." No consideration for the long day he just put in at work, in fact they're delusional to the point where they actually believe they're doing the harder job. See Bill Burr's rant on "the hardest job in the world."
They rarely do their part and consider the man a total shitlord for expecting a clean house and/or dinner on the table. A coworker of mine frequently shows up tired and stressed out, explaining that he had another long night with the baby. His stay at home wife "needs her sleep" or she'll be "too tired to parent", so she expects her husband to get up every time the baby cries. The guy who has to be at work and on top of his game at 8am every morning, the one who puts the roof over their heads and food on the table and his sleep is less important than the woman who can (and does) nap twice a day? Where's the respect?
These women quickly tire of their mundane lives and tend to blame their husbands for their unhappiness. When the divorce does come, the husband of a stay at home mommy gets fucked. Here's the narrative: She sacrificed her career and raised the kids by herself. Therefore you're going to pay for her to continue doing this as long as it takes and then some. Good luck seeing your kids, if she's feeling generous you might get them every other weekend.
You're right, though: The alternative isn't that great, either. I put in 15 years with the stay at home and now I've got a "strong independent career women" for an LTR. She comes with a whole different set of problems. I haven't decided if her particular brand of bullshit is better or worse.
Love that Bill Burr rant. "You're playing hide and seek in your pajamas at 30 years old, you're living the dream!"
I mean even the word "strong" here falls under the feminist narrative that they're trying to compete with men. It just doesn't pass the boner test for me. I don't know too many "strong" independent women that could win in a fight, so they're not physically strong. And if we use the term to mean strong willed, well that just translates to bitchy in my book. If a woman won't follow my lead, she's not a keeper.
Traditionalism is the driving force behind male slavery. It was better back then, but it was never a good deal.
Any time you get involved with a woman, you subject yourself to potential male slavery. There's a group of guys looking to avoid such an event- MGTOW
If it's easy then they're doing it wrong. Raising kids right is a full time job.
If I had to guess, these women are actually sitting on their fat asses watching TV all day. As I'm sure the rest of us has discovered, being active (e.g., exercise) makes you more energetic, not less.
I have to disagree. Yes, it's a full time job, but it's the easiest full time job I've ever seen.
I've been a single father for a few years now and this shit is cake. I feed my son, play with him, do our laundry, clean our home, take him to & from activities, keep him on task with chores and homework, help with said homework, talk to him, teach him things and so on. I also work a full time job, run a small business and do everything else a man has to do to maintain a household: fixing things that break, keeping the yard looking nice, doing various improvement projects, etc.
If I could quit my job, shut down my business and only have the kid and a few piddly household chores to do... I can't even imagine how easy that life would be and how much free time I'd have. None of this domestic stuff even begins to compare to my job, neither in complexity, stress, or just pure balls out hard fucking work. So I have no respect for women who complain about living such a privileged fucking life and how "hard" it is.
We should celebrate a good woman who stays at home and raises the children, no doubt, but it's high time we called them on their shit: They're not working all that hard. They're sure as hell not working harder than the guy who brings home the paycheck. They're living lives of privilege because we're willing to do the real work. I'm fine with that arrangement, but I expect some appreciation.
I'm willing to bet they have the kid in daycare or something half the day too so really they're raising the kids as a part-time job which they foist on the man when he gets home after she's spent maybe 4 hours of 'work'.
Not everyone wants a stay-at-home wife type relationship. I'd prefer someone I can talk to that has interesting things they're working towards compared to someone who just listens to me all the time.
And more power to you if you can find that. My only warning is that career women don't make good LTRs. Further, many non-career women can hold a conversation just fine.
You want somebody who is aggressive and competitive in the workforce, more power to you. Just don't expect more than the most casual fling from her. You're dreaming if you think that's going to make wife material.
and you think a woman that stays at home all day fantasizing about God-knows-who, and leeching off your hard earned earnings is worth the risk of LTRing?
I'll take 5 failed LTR's with career women before I take 1 semi-successful relationship with a leech. No way I'm supporting a woman that don't support herself
If you want kids, it makes sense to find someone who wants to stay home, or at least isn't an ambitious man-wannabe.
Taking care of kids is a full time job, and they're far better off with a mother than with day care losses who have half your IQ and don't give a shit about the kids.
Women's "love" is parasitic, however, if she does all her womanly duties such as cooking, cleaning, washing the dishes, take care of the kids, attempts to remain attractive, follows your leadership, and is sexually available while not nagging, I wouldnt call her a leech, at least not in the conventional sense. Part of the male-female union is that the woman NEEDS the male. Remember Briffault's Law? Having an 'independent' woman makes the stability of an LTR much less likely. /u/redpillschool said the rest.
All women leech. That is the essence of hypergamy. They mate/marry up and their value becomes that of the man they are with.
You can also LTR career women who can work part-time, doctors for example can open their own practice and work it out when they have time. Also teachers, and even engineers.
I met a gorgeous and highly successful lawyer that was an absolute shark in the workplace. The girl seemed like she wrote RP articles in her free-time, but she was super feminine and sweet when she was with me.
Aggressive and masculine girls will only become feminine if you can draw that side out of them. You need to be masculine enough to make her feel safe so she can let loose and expose her femininity.
Finding a hot and ambitious girl that's also very feminine is pretty rare but they are out there.
I don't doubt that they can exist- but understand that you're fishing in a shallow pond if you're looking for a woman who actively ignores her hypergamous nature. Can they exist? In theory. But let's just analyze the long-term probabilities of a woman who nearly prices herself out of the market- she wants the top 10% of the top 10%.
Even when you're one of the few in that bracket, it's not an easy catch to keep. And when you realize you're looking for something long term, the the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze in my opinion.
I'm seeing a lawyer right now, well she's in her last year. Im out of shape, I dont make much money, only redeeming quality I guess I have is I do stand up comedy. I'm not particularly good either, not getting paid to do it yet really. She pays for most shit, and basically gave me a car. Im okay looking but like I said im way outa shape tho.
Ya this chick is hot ambitious, very feminine, and I can talk to her about whatever. Just on paper I want to marry this chick.
Why do you care about this?
There is a huge difference between ambitious battle axe and intelligent hard worker. The latter will pay off big if you ever contract a disease, get injured, or just want to hold an interesting conversation on occasion.
that's why there are other men.
I find a lot of driven men in the same environment kind of annoying to be around. This is just my experience... But, its too much posturing and trying to out-alpha and speak over one another. If it gets them laid, more power to them, but from a friend perspective, it's exhausting to deal with.
Looks like you lack real friends.
Doesn't need to be a strict stay-at-home setup. Ideally they can do transient or part-time work that'll allow them to be flexible with their hours, which they can ramp up as the children grow older. You want them to be able to prioritize the kids if situations come up.
What you don't want is someone like a lawyer or doctor who literally cannot step away from her job for a few minutes. Someone has to prioritize the children.
There is a huger problem with this type of mentality.
The "all I want is to be a mom, I will be stay at home and take care of the kids", mentality that the girls get at an early age means that she will do slightly more than the bare minimum to take care of the kid, then the rest of the time she will just have an easy life and hang out with her friends in similar situations and go shopping, with your money. With the kid in the stroller. But she will claim that its hard work being a mom, so she is entitled to your money.
The fact that society, at least in US afaik, places such importance on having a kid like its a huge accomplishment and being a mom is hard is what psychologically leads the women to validate this behavior, even when in reality its like they are on an extended vacation.
And then people wonder where are all these sluts and betas coming from. If what I described above is the family arrangement, its pretty clear to see why these things happen.
And also from here, this is where a good portion of the cheating problems start if they are ever going to happen - the guy is away most of the day working hard, and if the wife isn't over her desire for romance, she will be tempted to go out and find excitement in younger guys.
If she was to put in her equal share of effort, then she would actually be putting in the same amount of work into raising the kid and maintaining the house as you would in your career. This means that every day would be dedicated to playing/educating the kid, taking him outdoor places like parks and beaches, and letting the kid get excersize, explore and play around safely. And then on the weekends, she could have some free time to hangout with friends.
And Im willing to bet that very few of us can find an example of a stay at home mom that does just that.
And if you want to find a woman like that, you need to find one that isn't afraid of and used to hard work, which pretty much means that she has to has a pretty successful job which she worked to get. And likewise, if she wants kids and wants to stay at home, she could easily save her income for a fund to cover some expenses.
I'd expect my woman to have a job, just not a career.
The things is though jobs are dime a dozen for typical college graduate with an easy degree like real estate. I know plenty of girls that went to work for things like apartment communities, being receptionists, low level HR, and so on. This isn't really significant. Even if the pay is not bad.
However, a girl that wanted to be an animal trainer since she was a kid, and went to a college for this and now works at a zoo for a low wage, often on the weekends as well, is somebody who is worthy of a marriage and kids, because she knows how to set goals and accomplish them.
I disagree with this comment more than anything I have ever read on TRP.
You want a woman who is ambitious and successful for a LTR.
You want to find the best DNA for your offspring.
What woman is better DNA for your children than one who is smart, attractive, and successful?
If you think you don't have strong game to handle an LTR with a strong woman, I think that speaks more to you needing to step up your game.
I am a general surgeon, and my wife who I married a year ago is in media marketing and makes more money than I do.
She is prefers to have a strong dominant caveman type male like myself, honestly I think all women do.
But don't just assume that because a woman is smart, attractive and successful, that you can't fulfill that role for her.
You don't always need to date someone stupid to control them.
"Wife/Stay-at-home mom role."
You don't want a wife, you want a house pet. Lol.
Throughout the history of relationships, marriage has been about joining families, making powerful alliances.
The goal was to create a legacy and a strong, powerful family. Strong families have daughters who run companies.
These women are your target. This is how to win the game. Its not about satisfying your insecurity. Its about getting the absolute best mate that you can.
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It didn't rub me the wrong way, I just object to advising guys not to chase these women at all. He is entitled to his opinion and its a valid one.
I have always gotten satisfaction from getting women who others thought were out of their league.
I just think its bad advice to aim low.
I think you aren't considering that other people's priorities might mean that they think you are the one "aiming low", and they are the ones putting in the work into the difficult pursuit of completely supporting a woman.
The arrogance is strong in this one.
You reveal your arrogance by implying stay at home moms are low on the totem pole. I wonder, if your wife is so busy making more money than you at marketing, who is going to be raising your children? Are you going to drop them off at day care every day? If so, I'd argue it's your wife who is low on the totem pole. She is so incredibly selfish that she's willing to have strangers raise her/your children so that she can have a career.
Complete and utter nonsense- you find a woman who is successful and she already wasted her birthing years to medical school or getting her MBA.
If you want to deal with endless shit tests and an unqualified sense of entitlement from a woman who believes her degree increases her value in the sexual market place- help yourself... nobody else wants them.. - wallstreetjournal.com
I'm not saying find yourself a good-for-nothing chick who can't cook. I'm telling you that you're in for a world of surprise when you realize how deeply entrenched in blue pill thinking you are for thinking the feminist-deemed positive qualities are actually positives for women. They're not men, if you needed to be reminded.
In the mean time, I will find the next hot young thing and get all her best years out of her. And she'll make great children. And she'll actually be around to raise them.
Or do you think kids don't need moms any more?
I mean you seem to be projecting a bit here, I'm not the one bragging about my job on here.
Thanks for the Wall Street Journal article. The comments are the best part! Plenty of unplugged responders.
Hey. Sorry that did come off a little insulting and I apologize for that.
I am sure your game is on point and your opinions are not necessarily founded on insecurity.
Still. I don't think you are picking up what I am laying down.
Successful woman are more likely to be self assured in their choice of mate and for that reason they don't shit test you.
You also falsely assume that young women can't be wealthy, attractive, successful or fertile.
You consistently confuse a woman's success with feminism and misandry.
They are not the same.
You do a lot of hamstering trying to justify why you chase unsuccessful women, which is fine, but its bad advice to tell people not to even try pursuing successful women.
Why would you even discourage TRP guys from chasing a more challenging female?
At the very least they will improve their game and learn things that will help their game.
What is blue pill about being successful and being in control of a woman who makes more money than I do?
I think it is more blue pill to grab the low hanging fruit and sell yourself short to be in control of a dumb 20 year old, that's easy to do.
It's not an assumption, it's my experience. First of all, women going for higher education do tend to waste their youth. Women are waiting longer and longer to get married and start families, and the results are obvious- they're upset that men are passing them over for younger women. Don't get me started on the increases of birth defects when you wait till your educated prize is in her late thirties. It was the "you can have it all" dream they sold to women, and a lot of them are quite upset to find you really cannot.
Secondly, these qualities are all in a group of qualities that simply do not activate my boner. None of them. A pair of hot young tits and a nice smile, that'll do it.
My experience with women who want to compete, or describe themselves as "strong" or "independent" is that they are argumentative, dominant, and a whole list of things that - again- don't trigger my dick. At all.
Intelligence is nice, but career women are just selling the same bill of goods feminists have been trying to sell us for years- that women are better in their thirties, and that they can manage high stress jobs and raising families at the same time. They can't.
These are the rebranded qualities feminists are trying to push on unsuspecting men as "attractive." The college degree is neither sufficient to gain my attraction, nor the lack thereof sufficient to lose my attraction. This is just straight talk here- I don't care if she's got a nobel peace prize, if it doesn't pass the boner test, I'm just not into it. Why buy into the lie that I should find such bullshit attractive? I don't. Most guys don't.
But let's say you find yourself that feisty 20-something doctor who strives for success and has a hot bod. The question I'd ask myself is- if you took that same chick and cloned her but took away her career- which one would be a better mom for my children? The one who will be the mom, of course, and not the doctor.
But let's say she promises to take time off from her career to be a mom. Putting aside the very fact that we have just lost the very quality that makes her successful- striving to be the best, and putting work first, and she's re-prioritizing her family. Well, that sounds like the type of woman I was describing. Except I want multiple kids, so I'm not waiting till the ripe ol' age of 28 to get started.
The fact is women are hypergamous. The more value they perceive of themselves, the higher the level of shit tests you'll get, and the more they think they deserve. Women hitting the wall run into this all the time- they price themselves out of the market and don't even realize it right away. They still think they're demanding the prices a hot young 18 year old girl was getting.
But the problem is that hypergamous nature doesn't go away. She's virtually un-pleasable at this stage, and likely has taken more than her share of cocks along the way.
Even if you manage to find one that's still submissive and friendly instead of controlling and bitchy- you've still got yourself a handful of work that, man, I just don't think it's worth hitching your life to. It's a chick for fuck's sake.
You've really done a good job of highlighting these qualities that feminists are obsessed with convincing us are good female qualities. "Strong" and "independent" are just not doing it for me. Educated is always nice, but I can't have sex with a degree. It's not making or breaking the attraction. Career focused means not family oriented.
At the end of the day, you're free to date/marry/fuck whomever you please. But ask yourself if the juice is actually worth the squeeze.
I'll take pleasant and cute over domineering and bitchy any day.
I rarely respond in a juvenile manner, but LOL
That is exactly the opposite of the way women operate. My colleagues and I are professionals who interact with other career professionals. Lawyers, actuaries, general practitioners, etc. The type of woman who chooses to focus on her career typically shares qualities with other successful men -- aggressive, dominant, masculine, etc. They have the ridiculous notion in their heads that their earning power is tied to their SMV. They believe being a doctor entitles them to other doctors, which they will bash you over the head with repeatedly. I could tell you a few fun stories about some lawyers I tried to date.
Comparatively, teachers, administrative assistants, medical assistants (but not nurses), and the like tend to be much more pleasant to be around and have better motherhood qualities. They don't wait until they're 33 to start looking for a man and demand only the best.
Just my experience.
You went to medical school and your calling yourself a caveman? Strong with the humbleness you are.
He's a general surgeon; if he wasn't a caveman he would have went ENT/Plastics/Uro.
Could you please elaborate on this? Do those guys make the most money? Is their workload the lightest? I always though anesthesiologist is the most well paid. You're making me rethink my career path.
I'm working towards getting a health science undergrad degree right now. Planning on going to Pharmacy Grad School after that, but still considering other careers in the medical field because my studies haven't become specific enough yet (Organic chem, anatomy, physics, etc.).
I'm in medical school and used to be a national boxing champion.
What's your point?
Just saying I don't think caveman when I think of the guy that cuts people open to fix what's inside of them for a living, you know? That's all.
Thank you for pointing out his nonsense
fuck marrying a stay at home wife. You are literally paying her half your salary to do 30 mins of work per day (vacuum, laundry, slap together a quick dinner) and have sex with you. While you work 40+ hours per week.
A stay at home wife is a loser and a moocher, and you're a sucker if you hand over your hard earned money to such a person.
The unending narrative here in TRP is "don't marry cause divorce rape". From this perspective alone I would rather be involved long-term with a woman who demonstrates an interest in financial independence than her twin who exhibits any gold-digging characteristics.
Whatever anyone has to say about the value a potential LTR brings to the table, "gold diggers" and "financially independent women" are, objectively, almost completely mutually exclusive. There's a happy medium somewhere in the rather wide gap between "career woman" and "stay-at-home mom" (one you've later identified as a woman who has a job but not a career, which is fair).
A woman who is financially independent, though, is not mutually exclusive with a woman who is willing and able to raise our kids properly for a few years.
I don't think any American woman is good LTR mate material at this point.
"No job/motivation/life goals" is code for, "You need to have millions of dollars to support my addiction to various luxuries, most of whichy have no use value whatsoever! or else you're not REEEEEAAALLL MAAAAANNNNNN."
I could smell her desperation to secure OP as her BB through the computer screen.
Maybe she wasn't up for the long con.
Phase 1 of a long con is finding the mark.
Anytime a girl uses terms like ambition or motivation they mean money. She dumped him because even though OP might be wealthy in the future, he isn't wealthy NOW. Women aren't interested in growing with men anymore. They are only interested in men who are already successful.
Briffault's Law, corollary 3:
Well compare to the Chad Thundercock Jr. III, OP is lucky that he ever went out with her. Just an engineering student. Chad has his family name on one of the campus building. His uncle had a fucking statue for his donation and bravery in the war. He catches everyone's eyes at the party, has a mansion by the beach, and is only 22 years old!!!
So, yea, OP better shape up
And he's already banged her three times! Surely he will soon ask her to marry him!
Seconded.
Lol, she did OP such a favor.
I look broke as a joke too... I don't work. Smoke medical weed all day.
But I've been a millionaire twice (Engineer as well. And if you wonder, divorce and recession) and I've been living off savings and selling my previous accumulation of materialistic stuff for the past 5 years.
Sell a car a year (still have 4 left) and most of my gold jewelry in 2011-2012. Still have a watch collection to sell and some race engines and random shit.
BUT... my biz partner and I have an app out, shopping the framework to companies and we just launched our newest business. I'm going to be a multi-millionaire in another year, again. [Sure as fuck ain't gettin married this time]
But until then, I'll keep driving to dates in my broke ass lookin 15y/o Toyota work-vehicle, fuck them gold diggers.
This same shit happened to me last year. I'm graduating in a month with a Bachelors in IT but because I decided to commute to school(saving about 10 grand a year in the process) I'm "immature."
That was a shit test and he passed it.
Leaving her behind is the smart move.
This isn't about his job, this is about her making an excuse for dumping him because she just didn't like him.
This reminds me of a story when I was catching up at the pub with my brother. He was studying to be a mining engineer at the time, while I had just cracked 18 so it was our first time at the pub together. He bailed on me to chat up a girl and looked like he was doing well. She was a solid 9 with a nice figure 8.
About 10 minutes later he joined me again, without the girl. I asked him what happened ad he relayed the conversation to me. B = brother, G = girl.
My brother just grabbed his beer and left. I laughed my ass off. How daft can women get.
When I was pursuing my BSN I had a chick break it off because I didn't work at the time and didn't party like it was going out of style. If I'm dishing out several thousand a semester to get a degree I'm going to get the biggest bang for my buck and not endanger my studies by partying 3 nights a week.
I'm convinced that some women's foresight doesn't extend beyond the end of their nose. If it did she'd have realized that RNs make 60k/he starting and that it only goes up from there.
She sounds like an idiot, nothing lost
A moron for not grasping how shallow a trick hers was, attempting to shame OP into revealing the goods. It often works, fishing in the murky waters of guilt, except if, surprise! --there isn't any.
Well, it doesn't matter what you are. If you're not providing for women, you have no job/motivation/life goals, in their minds.
LOL, she was getting played by some other dude. Other dude was playing the "I'm a rich guy" card. OP wouldn't one up that, so she thought he couldn't. Other "rich" guy bangs gf, walks away after. Now she wants him back.
Anyone in it for the money will leave when the money is gone. It is as simple as that.
And the money will be gone quick if a gold digger has their hands on it.
I read a quote somewhere: "If you want people to leave you alone, tell them you're broke."
True friends and a quality woman will support you through temporary financial setbacks. All others will scatter as if you have the plague. Golddiggers will leave because there's no point. Social stigma will scare off the rest.
Actually, this may be a good test to float at the one month mark to see if the girl you are dating is a quality woman. OP dodged a bullet.
A good test would be to wrap your dick with cling-wrap and tell the girl you still have to save up for some condoms.
I have a good career working for banks and hedge funds in the technology space. I've worked for a lot of the investment banks and financial firms that you've either heard of or are "to big to fail".
When I was in my mid 30's, I owned my own home, had a great gig, and found myself dating again. I too would never discuss my income with others. OP's dad is completely right. It's none of their business. Anyway, I'd been on one or two dates with a woman and when I picked her up at her place to take her out, she wanted to have a discussion with me; here's how it went:
Her: "So, I know that you have your own home, and you have a maid service come in once a week to clean the place. I also looked up your job title and company to see what kind of income you make .. and I really think this is going to work out. I think we can have a great lifestyle together".
Now, this is someone who makes 35K a year. Essentially she was saying that she felt that I made enough to provide her with the lifestyle she wanted.
Me: "That's great to hear"
I'm not stupid. I kept the plate spinning for a few months before getting rid of the baggage.
Those women are too funny. These women hitting the Epiphany Phase want you to "prove" your value to them by what you can buy them or give them materially. And most of these girls do some shit like fold clothes for a living!
My go-to response for the gold digging whores is:
"If I have to pay for sex, I'm hiring a professional." - Tom Leykis
In Ukraine I figure that having a girlfriend costs me about $150-200 a month, maybe less now with the UAH so low and depending on the woman. So I look basically at their cooking skills as a way to lower that money down to something like $50 or so. I think that women will always take up some amount of resources.
That's quite cheap. Third-world girls have always brought me good value. Nice to hear the poor white countries bring the goods.
Well.. yeah. Anything that provides value will have an associated cost. You can overpay, underpay, but "take up some resource" seems a bit silly to say.
Also, time is far more valuable than the money (at least from what it loosely sounds like in your case) and you aren't accounting for that.
how stupid does she have to be to say this? I don't know how you kept a straight face... lmao
Think about how many men out there are so thirst enslaved that they'd take that sort of treatment just to get even a whiff of pussy.
Too damn many. It's not surprising how many women get mentally fat from not having to work for attention.
Women are borderline autistic
Women believe that they hold the keys to both commitment and sex. Having a vagina throughout their early 20's creates a massive sense of false entitlement. I've seen smart, educated women say shit similar to this.
You can almost feel the climax of emotion she felt when she said that.
yea, it was crazy; like she came to this conclusion that it was OK for HER to lock me down .. never mind my opinion on the matter.
Those are also the ones that really really needs to move in with you...
That was you mid 30s, what's your dating status right now?
now - mid 40's with a wife and two kids. I got married in my late 30's. I know marriage isn't very RP, but I approach it two ways. First, it had to be to the right person. I'd walked away from a number of LTR's because they just weren't right for me. I didn't allow them or anyone else pressure me into getting married for some stupid reason.
Second - If things don't work out, I'm not afraid to take the financial hit and walk away. I have the type of job that would allow me to be a consultant and work all over the world. Three months here, six months there, a year someplace else - It's kind of appealing to me.
I don't think things would come to that .. like I said, I think I married the right person; but in the event that I didn't, that's OK too.
Good on you OP.
I had a similar experience with a chick. I'm an American living in Peru, so people automatically assume I'm Bill Gates rich and have tons of money. I was teaching English in a two-bit private school, and was nearly broke. Still, this girl would NOT stop asking me about money.
She one time even posited that I must have at least $10k stashed away somewhere and that I'm pretending to be broke. She really wanted to believe in the rich American that would lead her to the USA where she could be fucked by even more Chad Thundercocks.
We broke up shortly after she showed incredible ingratitude on a $100 dinner out to eat (which for me was quite an expense). I offered to take her to a nice hotel (another $150) and she said no because she was on the rag. She later told me she thought I was being 'cheap' that night.
Being on her period has never been a good excuse IMHO. I don't give a fuck. Call it out for what it is: an excuse.
Women use that as an excuse to try and get away with shit. It's hilarious when they first meet opposition with me, because all the so called men from her past didn't have the testosterone to put her in her place.
She could at least suck it all night long.
Would you be willing to finger blast her while she sucks you off?
I said the same thing, and still insisted we spend the night there anyway. She literally pulled me away from the counter of the hotel, so I let it go.
Not all women are comfortable having sex on the rag. To think otherwise makes you an ignorant ass.
Translation: I'm entitled to the hypergamous dream of wealth by association. How could you deprive a woman of money like that? I exist god damnit!
Dude... Why are you spending money on hoes?
I never buy a thing for women on dates. Doesn't keep me from pussy. Sometimes it even makes it wetter.
Spending on a hoe places you in the BB box by default. Trust me dude, if you have game it doesn't matter one bit. You can also agree and amplify -- "I never spend on women I don't know-- I expect them to be as strong and independent as I am." (Implying that once you know her... It's a possibility. (In reality, zero intention))
This was like, 4 years ago.
But yes, everything you said.
One thing though that I will point out is that here in Peru I'm often on a very different economic level from the girls I pick up/meet. As in they are often literally broke as a joke. The money I spend on them is more for my enjoyment than theirs. I'd rather eat at the nice restaurant, so I'll pay for both. This results in a satisfied chick, and in my experience tends to make getting laid smoother. Plus I'm happy.
I notice that a lot of women claim to want a "motivated" or "ambitious" man. This seems to be code for wealthy.
They just want the ape at the top of the social pecking order. Wealth is merely one form of status among many others, such as popularity, physical dominance, etc. A lot of women seem to consider themselves very sophisticated and mature for pursuing wealthy ("ambitious" and "motivated") men rather than Chad Thundercocks like all the other girls. They strut around with their noses in the air feeling that they, as strong, independent women, are entitled to a wealthy and successful "real" man. Of course, these strong, independent women are not the female equivalent of gentlemen, willing to care and provide for a man poorer than they are -- those women don't exist, which is one of the many hypocrisies of feminism.
I hate how everyone talks in euphemisms when discussing female sexuality.
"Confident" == socially dominant
"Ambitious" and "motivated" == wealthy and/or authoritative
There are probably other examples, but I can't think of them right now.
Exactly. I've fucked girls when I was broke as hell and they knew it, but they liked the 'take-charge' attitude I had. A lot of girls repeat what they hear without thinking too deeply about what the words mean (shocking, right?!?!). In your interactions you'll see if it's merely money or alpha behavior they're talking about.
Young women don't give a fuck about your finances. They've got orbiters and parents that do that for them.
I don't believe that's true. Women aren't attracted to rich guys purely for their money, but the status it grants them. Attraction is a primitive, instinctive behaviour, not something conscious. A young woman would gravitate to a rich nerd because of his "rich guy" status, even if she doesn't need the money. He will be the envy of other men, and she will sense that.
My experience tells me otherwise.
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A girl will try just as hard not to get knocked up at all when she wants just for Chad Thundercock to clean out her pussy with a good regular ramming.
I reckon you're looking for Book Of Pook - Guide to Womanese
The years I wasted trying to find a women who'd help me feel better about humans and the world, so that I'd stop drinking as much, and smoking will never come back. It cost me about ten years trying to find a woman that would motivate me like that. I didn't find one that I cared to stop smoking and switch to dipping with, but the rest has to come from me, so it is.
In Asia, the words Asian women use are "responsible" and "hard working"
AWALT.
Of course they do. Women want security. And to women, money equals security. Ambition and motivation are qualities that go along with making money, or at the very least signal security. Women want to be protected and secured.
I'm graduating from medical school in a week - when girls find out that I'm about to be a doctor they drop their panties at supersonic speed. It's absolutely absurd. The plates that I've had cling on to me like their life depends on it, and I haven't made a dollar in four years and will be working for less than minimum wage for the next three years at least during residency. But they love the idea that I've been a hard working, motivated guy who has the potential to make $300k+ a year. I can't tell you how many tears I've seen when I break things off with them. They are attracted to that sense of security far more than my looks, which are only slightly above average to be entirely honest. And it's all a sense and a specter - I haven't been able to offer them anything real at all except the potential of the future and a good fuck. That's just how young women work. Older women my age are different - they want something established. Many of them have big rocks on their left hand. But it is the exact same principle.
The average medical resident earns well above minimum wage, averaging around $50k/year.
I love how tolerant feminists are over this practice. That kinda shit is what keeps setting their movement back.
That's fine, I don't date teachers and professions like that. I support feminism by dating women that make bank. Powerful women. Lawyers and doctors, executives.
Yeah... just like tall, dark and handsome seems to be code for wealthy as well.
Yup, AWALT. I dealt with this with the previous whore that I dated. It was weird. She was simultaneously jealous and attracted to me for making decent money ($75k/yr). Oh well, hamsters gonna hamster.
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I agree. In my experience pretty, skinny, gold diggers are quarrelsome in general. The argument is to elicit your anger to share information that a calm mind would not share.
Holy shit you are right :O
That is literally the text I sent to my ex, when she tried coming back in my life after 2 months of no contact. I was drunk saw her calling me a loser that will not be anything in life because "I only works out and smoke weed" so I told her how much I make a week, told her she'd never amount to me and finished it off by calling her a slut. Haven't talked since, I didn't mind losing frame since I was drunk and that I was done with her. I wish I saved the screen shots her friend also came at me and I was going off on both of them laughing because they thought I was being serious when I had a group of friends around me reading all the text.
Its better then that a new enemy doesn't know details but if he is completely done with her then her level of lust is irrelevant.
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So you caught your woman pulling a deal-breaker and then you spoke of marriage later down the road.
yeah... about that
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZuhYJynSk8
One more reason not to cohabitate - it becomes impossible to secure your papers and effects.
Jesus christ man I don't know what I would do in that situation. I would be livid. Brb violating the trust of the guy im trying to marry...
This made me cringe.... Hard...
Reminds me of that scene from Swingers where the guy hits on the girl at the party and the only thing she says is "what kind of car do you drive?"
Bitch, what kind of car do you drive? If your pussy is the best or most interesting thing about you, why do you think you deserve...anything?
"What car do you drive? A dick shift?"
You should say "You go first. Oh, that's all? We can't be together."
I go the other way. I tell girls that I sell crack to children, but I dress up clean so they know I have money. Being tall, white, and having a vague homo aura works wonders in disarming people.
You lose frame with this response by getting down to her level. Be better then this your a red pill man now.
With a smirk it could work. Then you just plate her and fuck her whenever you want.
My boss is a divorced middle-aged mom in her 40s and she's fairly attractive for her age. There are times when redpill truths are remarkably forthcoming from her. The other day, she mentioned how she didn't like it when guys told her how much they made on the first date because it removed the mystery for her.
Of course, that does imply she eventually wants to know how much they make, but she wants to get her tingles on first. It also implies that she's definitely assessing the men she dates on their provider value.
You can also respond with:
"I make XXX per year, I'm willing to spend XXX on you monthly. In exchange, I want sex X times per week, with the following sex acts performed with sufficient levels of enthusiasm: X, Y, Z. Do we have a deal?"
Then break if off after the she throws a fit of indignation and hurt feels.
Reminds me of the old joke:
"Will you sleep with me for a million dollars?"
Now the woman pauses and after some thought says "Yes, I will."
The man responds "How about for twenty dollars?"
The woman looks indignant and says "Of course not. What kind of a woman do you think I am?"
The man replies "I thought we just settled that. I was just negotiating the price."
I ran a similar line with awoman discussing modeling and how some moved into shooting nudes.
"I'll never get naked in front of the camera. I don't think I'll ever degrade myself like that"
"Usually models that shoot nudes start at $125 an hour and go up from there"
"Oh... I wouldn't mind making that much"
Its a Winston Churchill Quote I believe
Churchill never actually said it. Good joke though.
you are right. TIL. http://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/03/07/haggling/
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to be fair though, sleeping with someone for a million and doing it for 20 are completely different: The million can irreversibly change your life if you use it/ invest it correctly, but the twenty can buy you the entry to the club to access some prime cuts of thundercock.
so a woman who sleep swith someone for a million could just be looking for her life to change completely. Not a whore. I'd say she'd be stupid to turn that down. Women sleep with guys for mere tingles, i'd say it's even more justified to do it for a million dollars: that way after he leaves you, they're left with something tangible.
20 bucks isn't enough to change your life, so it's not worth it. simple.
if you said 500 bucks, then that's a different abll game: still a decent amount of money, but is it worth compromising your sexual integrity? that's roughly the threshold i'd judge a woman by.
You need to make it more substantial not $500. More like $100k.
sleeping with someone is not that big of a deal to be honest. we hear stories of guys fucking girls within a couple hours of meeting them because the guy was essentially an 'asshole' to them. they fucked them for free. 100k is defintely enough to justify fucking someone for. you can pretty much change your life with that.
maybe $1000, but unless a girl is married, i wouldn't blame her for fucking someone for 100k.
It's 50 bucks in Amsterdam.
The artist that did the murals for the Facebook office got paid in stock. He unashamedly pays for sex. Says that, like, 98% of women will fuck for $2K.
Any link you can direct me to?
It depends on here socioeconomic position. $500 to women who want to get their CNA in some parts of the country is pretty near equivalently life changing to $100K to women who want to own their own home in CA.
Not for nothing, but I might even sleep with a guy for a million. Totally life changing.
I'm straight and I'd for sure fuck a dude for a million dollars. No shame.
You might not believe it, but I said something very similar to my SO after we'd been together a few years. She was complaining because every time she would come to my apartment I would tell her to either bring her own food or starve. I wasn't trying to be an asshole but I wasn't making great money at the time and I budgeted things to the T. When she said to me that she felt I was being "mean" or I was "wrong" for telling her not to eat my food I pretty much said, "I budget things tight around here. If anything, YOU are wrong for coming to my house and expecting to be able to eat up all of my food. Then I'd have to spend more unbudgeted money to replace that food. I'd be broke and you'd have another thing to complain about. How about you start sucking some dick without solicitation on my part? How about sucking some dick twice a day instead of twice a week? How about you bring yourself and another chick over. Do you see where I'm going? If you're not going to bring food or money and you're only bringing complaints to my place, what do you think my next move will be?"
Still together and going strong? Just curious
Nah....I bet she still stick around
Yes, after a year or so of red pill truth she now identifies as a female misogynist. She still has her moments of inherent emotionally driven irrationality but she always comes back and realizes/acknowledges those moments of weakness and does her best to grow in that aspect. I try to tell people all the time, if you present RP truths for the truths that they are a decently intelligent person would have no choice but to agree.
that's amazing, I think it's a trap
We have a Chad Shakespeare here.
42 years old here. Never married. No girlfriend of mine in the 25 years I've been dating has ever known how much I earn. Not their business. Several asked at various points. All were told, "None of your business." Some left over the information rejection. Some I left. Some stayed on thinking they'd win over in the end. They didn't. No matter what reason they give you there are several things you should NEVER tell a girlfriend.
Giving those things up to your gf is not a sign of love/fidelity/commitment. Giving them up is a submission of self. Of your very identity. You are surrendering "you" to that person . And when that person gets angry at you, they will destroy you by using "you" to do it.
I hope you're the next Zuckerberg. She would spend the rest of her life living in regret.
There are almost as many women who broke up with not-yet-rich guys, and regretted it the rest of their lives, as there are grains of sand. It's puzzling how lousy women are at judging men's potentials, since doing so is one of their main biological imperatives. Maybe they're just extremely risk averse in that area.
The world is very complicated now and investments in time and energy can take years to play out and because of the size of the populations they can scale out enormously. The lower mammal brain can't figure all of that out.
It can since most decisions are made by people but at the top-most level. The next level down is AI's, models & machinery, and you need to intimately understand that and/or the top-most global tier of secret movement of capital to be up there.
They are much better at judging and understanding other women. Most don't know fuck all about us or what we are about. If you show up in public with a super-hot chick though, that's more than enough for a lot of women to know they want you too.
They don't regret it, they hamster it as an increase in their own worth: "Oh Jimmy made millions? I used to fuck him 10 years ago, so Yaaaaah confirmation that I am in a millionaires league!"
Money doesn't make alpha. It's like a little girl tripping in her mom's heels. If it was never there to begin with, she'll know.
No, they are just incredibly bad at measuring anything objectively.
OK so I'm going to offer a little devil's advocate here.
If a chick is asking you on the first night you meet how much money you have/make then holy fuck yeah that's a red flag. PUMP AND DUMP.
However...
If you are in an exclusive LTR with a female she's going to want to know your earning potential. That's not all that abnormal. In relationships money and power play a huge role in SMV. When evaluating a prospective exclusive partner, women gauge earning potential vs their own SMV. To put it simply, they have an idea of how beautiful they are and a certain vision about what kind of lifestyle that is worth.
So a HB9+ will fuck the broke dick bad boy with six pack abs and a cocky attitude at the drop of a hat, but unless he has serious dick game and got her all spun in his line of bullshit - player level over 9000 - she's not going to stick around over long term. That's just the way it goes. You can overcome this reality when you are younger to a degree with the glorious P word POTENTIAL, but eventually the promise must become kinetic or else she will seek her pot of gold at the end of some other rainbow.
Such is life. There is no LTR/Marriage without an element of Beta Bux save the few out there nailing down sugar mommas with their 8"+ Pringles' can cocks. AWALT! They all believe beauty = materialistic reward. Why shouldn't they? They're not wrong.
When women seriously and honestly consider a man for long term exclusivity, earning potential is a qualifier they want to know. Think about it. If you were a woman, would you not do the same? Its just logical behavior.
For a young girl, having a boyfriend means steady sex with a hot guy - yes - but it also means gaining access to those sweet boyfriend rewards - namely value added to her life - i.e. him doing shit for her. Its nice to be driven around in a hot car, spend overnights at his cool pad, taken to nice places, get bought stuff, maybe a trip here and there. Hot chicks learn at an early age they get access to such rewards for being hot and it becomes must have criteria for men they date. All other women are jealous and hate them for it, but at the same time have their own preset threshold of qualifiers. AWALT.
The older a woman gets, the more this phenomena hockey sticks. How many 32-35 year old smoke shows have you seen shacked up with a cashless broke dick loser? Let me answer that for you... Zero.
One the big tricks of male sexual strategy is to get women to react to their tingles more than their materialistic hypergamy, but I don't know if it ever can be fully mitigated seeing that for women it is a component survival instinct.
The TL;DR of this is any level of relationship seriousness is going to require at least a ballpark estimate of what the financial expectations are. This is not a condemnation of female character, but rather an explanation of their survival mechanism. In OP's case sounds like the girl was too dumb to recognize/understand what family money is and that she was on the verge of hitting the boyfriend lottery. I have to laugh and smh at her dumbassery.
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I'm not talking about disclosure of bank statements here, nor am I talking about your average spinning plate either.
I'm talking LTRs and marriages. Letting a serious girlfriend in on what your means and life goals are isn't outlandish. Seems like a normal part of the vetting process that people undergo, IMO. If a girl has earned your trust then I don't see the problem with a level of disclosure matching what OP has posted here.
If a woman starts asking for exact numbers like "Oh yeah just how much is in that college fund? Hmm?" then yeah you raise an eyebrow and refuse to dignify the question. At that point you probably regard the girl very differently from there on out.
I think its fair for a woman to get a general clue about a man's means as she explores the possibility of a more serious relationship. That sort of thing helps her judge your character. It's never going to be 100% about tingles. In this regard, women (at least the smarter ones) are pragmatic.
It's been said here ad infinitum that women don't like to defer status in relationships. It crushes their libido when they do. Nothing dries up a girlfriend's pussy like a boyfriend's empty wallet. Like it or not, a man's earning potential is deeply integrated into his status in a female's eyes. Usually, the lifestyle a man lives sends those signals up front where those actual drill down discussions don't take place until much, much later if that's ever warranted.
When they start asking those questions up front, then you can be all like "Bitch, don't you see my brand new Mustang and 60" UHD TV? WTF do you think?" NEXT.
There's a subtle way a man can go about qualifying himself as an individual of means without ever having to disclose numbers and maintain personal privacy on financial matters. I'm thinking outright stonewalling is a bad play. A good girl with self respect worthy of your attention is going to have an SMV qualifier and that's absolutely going to include financial considerations, so don't think you're doing yourself a big favor by fronting out that you're broke as fuck because you're scared to let her know you have a little cash in your pocket.
Remember a true player sees the whole field and knows every angle. Don't think you're going to run some Prince Hakeem of Amunda Coming to America bullshit and get the fine ass bitch to roll back to your "very poor" spot because you think your charm and character is all that. Don't be naive. Use a little common sense. The girl doesn't want a broke dick loser with no job for a boyfriend. That doesn't make her a terrible person. That's called having standards. Its up to you to be able meet qualifiers while defeating shit tests. Sexual strategy. You only disclose your bank statements to your wife, if you ever decide to get one. Otherwise, game and play.
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Your wife is supposed to be your best friend who also happens to enjoy having sex with you. Financial partners. Partners in parenting. Partners in life. Maybe only sometimes trust and disclosure is a part of leadership, but it's always a part of intimacy, romance, friendship and love.
You're not looking to her for direction, but sharing your experiences with her. If you can't celebrate the news of a windfall with her then what's really going on? Are you too afraid that her motives aren't pure and are too timid to trust? You're not doing it right then. TRP preaches the Captain-First mate dynamic. Shouldn't you trust the first mate?
Much of TRP is about what to do when things go wrong, but how about how to make something that is good better? It can't be said enough - TRP is not about hating women and proving they're all untrustworthy cunts. TRP is about properly disciplining and governing yourself so you can be successful in your relations with them. That takes many forms. If marriage and family (for the record I would never advocate marriage if the aim wasn't to have and raise children) is what your vision of personal fulfillment is - then realize that the application of TRP principles is different than for a guy who just wants to spin plates.
I just told a (married) man today I've never in my life had a woman make me a meal much less pay for one, even partly pay. He said "you're with the wrong woman". I'm thinking: that's most of them. That's what I meet because that's what's around.
I don't want any woman getting the idea I have enough money, or slave-power in me to support her ass. I will not support her ass regardless.
So you weren't going to tell your wife that you were going to be getting a six month bonus from work? Why would you not tell your wife about it? Screw your reasoning of not wanting to share, you have a bigger issue around money and trust.
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damn.
how would you feel if the roles were reversed and you learned your spouse was thinking of not telling you and they didn't disclose the entire amount?
you didn't tell her the correct amount.
you still lied to your wife.
No, you have a lack of experience with wives.
Thankfully I've never been married but most guys I know have been or still are and I pay close attention to how their wives behave.
Don't be so vague; what do you see when you pay attention to your friend's wives?
Assuming she is such a girl is outlandish, that it is that serious.
Serious as in exclusive? As in exploring the possibilities?
The thought is pretty outlandish when you're in your twenties still trying to figure out how to take care of yourself, fucking absolutely. Its as familiar as space exploration.
I'm telling you though, as you get a little older the thought of having a wife and family becomes more appealing for many men.
Once you turn 40 and you're still in the bar looking to hook up - you become "that guy". At that point physical fitness has long stopped being something you take for granted - it becomes a lifestyle requiring heavy dedication to diet and exercise to maintain a look that allows you to turn girls heads and pull them out of clubs like you did at will in your 20s.
The whole exercise of day and night game and cold approaching becomes less of a hunter's thrill. It becomes annoying and tiresome. You feel like you're fucking over it. By then, you've worked long enough to build something. You should have your own little situation - sweet place to live - maybe a big house and some nice toys. You want to be able to kick back and enjoy the fruit of your labors. You expect them to come to you and jock you - and if you're doing it right past 35 years old - they will.
You don't want to have to chase tail 24/7 to keep your plumbing well lubricated. You want that shit on command.
Its nice having your house clean and your laundry done for you. Its nice to have your little fangirl on your arm loving your ass and having your back.
Its not a total bad deal. If something like that appeals to you - and you see yourself as alpha in the top 20th percentile - then you should be able to do 2 things:
So from that perspective, its not so outlandish at all.
MANY of us guys are "that guy".
I'm that guy.
I'm proud of it. It gets me zero negative flack. Zero.
Not that I'm seeing: many more are dropping out of that for good. I am. I'm proud of that too. There is nothing appealing in having my life ripped apart by a human being I can't trust, in the role of wife, and almost zero chance I'll find a woman who can be trusted.
ALWAYS has been to me: to be otherwise is to fail yourself as a human being. That is a standard I hold every man and woman to. Those who are lazy get no respect from me. I control my diet with care and my exercise forever, and have since I was 19. I'm almost 39 now. Every meal, every hour of the day: no exception allowed. Ever. There are no cheat days for me.
There is no thrill required: do it to get what you want and if you want something else, do something else. I often spend my time doing something else but retain the skill so I can get what I want when I want it. Being without a marriage, a wife, a long-term girlfriend, doesn't require the chase at all: the core of the red pill, the absolute ultimate core, is to go your own way, aka MGTOW.
It is on command: that's called hookers and where I live it's legal.
A wife is not ever a sex on demand situation. To believe otherwise is delusional. That's the legal reality we live in. A hooker wants repeat business so she will give sex on demand to keep working and NOT get pregnant because she makes more NOT-pregnant than she does trying to sperm-jack a client. They get paid $200/hour.
NO it isn't. It's nice having security of my property and to burn that to the ground to have a live-in maid who's called a wife is INSANITY. That's like paying the price of a Ferrari to get a PINTO and expect it to be self-cleaning.
YOU ARE WAY BAD with prices.
I could easily pay a MAID, an actual made, for far cheaper than divorce+years of marriage to get my place cleaned by someone else.
1) Recognize quality
DELUSIONAL.
Quality is hidden at all times. You will never see the quality of a woman with less than YEARS of personal exposure to her and you now risk EVERYTHING to do so and by the time you find out you made a mistake you WILL lose YOUR PROPERTY.
Gone. Your life wiped out.
The risk is so damn high it's like Russian Roulette. This is utter insanity
2) Maintain your situation.
DELUSIONALLY outlandish. To expect this is like expecting magic to become real.
That's not how the world works, son.
Son? I'm a few years your senior.
Look if you want to be a bar fly at 40 cold approaching females for random hookups and that still appeals to you then knock yourself the fuck out. I don't give a flying fuck. To me that's what you do in your 20s when you have more energy than resources.
Me? Been there done that. Got the t-shirt. Wore it the fuck out. Got the next t-shirt. Wore it the fuck out too. I fucked so many damn bar sluts in my life, there's absolutely no mystery or thrill in the rush of it for me. Bored. Actually, the mere thought of it makes me want to put a clothes pin on my nose and wear 5 condoms at once.
If I were to become single again at 43 years old I certainly wouldn't be trolling skank bar sluts nor would I be dependent on prostitutes to get my nuts off. I wouldn't have to really do anything but hang out with the few lifelong friends I have and enjoy a few active hobbies and the women would flock to me. By 40 fucking years old, if you're physically fit and affluent, then you are usually a heavily sought after commodity in the dating market.
Its laughable. My brother is 38, recently divorced - no kids - makes 6 figures - is shredded - and he has his pick of very attractive quality women. Its effortless as it should be. He laughs about it because the women he meets are so unbelievably desperate - comparable to the feeling of desperation he felt 18-21. If you are truly workout terminator cash money flow dude at 39 then you know this. You laugh at bar skanks and (yuck) prostitutes because you have a parade of educated, sweet scented, workout body 26+ year old young professional women hounding you for your attention. You don't have to do anything but say "yes you may" to get a blow job at an instance because you got a crowd around you ready to drop to their knees.
Me? I have to admit putting myself on the open market is extremely tempting. I know I would do well and have my way. Likely the one thing keeps me from doing so is that I have a 6 six year old son who I want to be a part of his daily life - and a wife who not only never turns me down for sex, but initiates half the time without my suggestion. I enjoy fatherhood. I have a beautiful home, some nice toys, travel and take nice vacations often and overall have a serene, rewarding life. But hey that's my personal vision of fulfillment. Yours could be totally different and that's OK. As long as of each of us lives life on our own terms with a feeling of mastery over own own existence then we both are abiding by RP principles.
There's also another post I believe that was on this sub, but basically once women reach or adapt a wealthier lifestyle then it's impossible for them to go back. All it takes is one little taste of the rich life and they will be craving that for the rest of their lives.
I completely disagree with being entitled to know ballpark figures. There are vast resources to research pay, by job type, job function, etc. People in college (read: men) make conscious decisions on career prospects by researching what the various compensation figures can be.
Women can do a little research and figure out a ballpark figure if they are so eager to know. I will not tolerate an excuse such as women being entitled to know that information.
Yeah, I think a lot of people are missing a very important point if they believe that men should be looking for women who do not care about money at all. Women who do not care about money are illogical (unless she has a trust fund that will take care of her indefinitely, in which case she probably won't date below her socio-economic class cause her friends would look down upon her). You are probably going to be in for a bad time when her emotions change. If she doesn't think about the long term, she's probably going to end being fat and addicted to drugs or alcohol because that is what happens to many girls who are attractive when they are young, but don't plan for the long run. We see a lot of posts about divorce rape here, but most of the actual divorces or separations (neither party can afford to officially divorce) are among poor people.
You don't want a girl who cares about money too much (gold digger). But you also don't want a girl who doesn't care about your money at all (low intelligence, overly emotional, probably no good for the long run because she doesn't plan for the long run). If you want to avoid the gold diggers, you should screen her for money. If she came from an upper-middle class family, she isn't gold digging you because she has family money already (unless you are extremely wealthy, but you shouldn't let her know that, but it should be obvious that you don't have trouble paying the bills). If she doesn't make much money herself and she came from lower class roots, then there are perverse incentives. There's a reason why most upper-middle class families don't date down. They are actually pretty blunt about it if you talk to them candidly. They teach this to their sons. If you are upper-middle class, date within your own social class. If your parents were lower-middle class and you are doing far better (e.g. you earn six figures right out of college as a banker, engineer, etc), then abandon your ghetto past. Yes, you might relate to lower-middle class people better because that is how you grew up, but the point is to go up the ladder.
Women don't have to screen for male gold diggers because they tend to marry up in age. They often know the guy's career (and it doesn't take a genius to use Google to figure out his income) before they even start dating him. Guys tend to date down in age, so they often have no clue what a woman's career will be or if she will stick to her career after she has kids, so it is hard for a guy to screen for gold diggers. She might not even know her plans, how many people in their early 20s do? The best you can do is to screen her parents and don't date girls who come from single mothers or poor backgrounds.
"If I ask you to marry me then I'll tell you about my finances. Otherwise you're not past the vetting process."
Classic abundance mentality in action.
Another point is to never let a woman see how much money you have either. At the time that my ex-wife was my girlfriend, she saw my bank balance on accident and her interest was visually piqued. I didn't think twice about it at the time, but a marriage and a divorce later, I can see that she was just using me.
Yup, that is an important lesson.
How much money you have or earn NEVER shows your VALUE as a man.
It is an important factor (and helps a lot), but if you need to talk about money to build respect or attraction, you deserved to be sucked out of them.
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You can inherit money from your family, but be an unsecured fuck without values.
You can even earn tons of money by yourself (for example at IT sector), but again be unsecured, have no values or real idea about life.
Those kind of guys can be BB at best, if they will not understand how things works. Trust me, I have seen tons of examples like that. Big wallet means nothing if you are boring and have no character.
Don’t get me wrong – money ARE important. Very important. Without them you cannot be a true man. They give you freedom and power to do as you want. But this is one of the element and just money will get you nowhere.
From the social point of view woman need you not only for your wallet but also to provide her clear values to hand on where the world gets crazy (in her perspective). Also situation change a lot – today you can have millions, tomorrow crisis may come and you will have nothing. But who you are, your values and principles will stay and make you rise again.
Plz read some more. You'll be enlightend knowing howmany loaded betas exist.
No, but you apparently are.
I agree with AnythingForSuccess. If I had a male child and had to choose to teach him about women or money, I would teach him about women first! That sums up which is more important.
Women will always be assessing you.
If she's curious about income, then she probably has no tingles and not interested in you as an Alpha. She is sizing you up as a Beta Bucks provider.
If you've already had or been having sex before the income questions start, think back ... have you been failing shit tests?
I used to think that women that were insterested in what I do was a good choice to date, after I discovered redpill I translate the question about occupation to a question about income. Then it's a major turnoff, because that's a beta bucks question. Now I have realized that the most interesting girls are those who are attracted no matter what I do.
Dude where do you find these winners???
This is your average to above average woman now.
They really are not marriage or LTR material. Its rather sad.
The sheer audacity of entitlement is obscene. It makes me worry for future generations, because from what i have seen around reddit, i fear that r/raisedbynarcissists is going to be huge in the future.
The irony is that women are making just as much as men now, if not more. I live in a city so my point of view is skewed, but it seems I know more women who have high level careers and education than men. On the flip side though, all those men I know have exceedingly interesting lives and do pretty much whatever the fuck they want.
It is a legitimate question to have, as it is a very good metric for discerning the nature of a person.
HOWEVER, the problem I have is that they ask that question to Beta Bucks. I might actually respect a woman more if she were to ask that question to Chad Thundercock with the same regularity.
So you're saying she asked me because you think I'm beta?
not necessarily beta, but she definitely saw a provider in you.
Because she broke it off proves that she only saw the provider in you
For a man to give up the details of his financial status in my opinion either means he is beta and using finances to get/keep women or he could possibly be alpha if he is just using his financial status for ONS's.
Since she saw me only as a provider, she had to know how much I could provide and because I wouldn't tell her she ended it with me?
Yes, women don't care about money unless it is the long game. Women do not associate long game with AF. They may ask an AF how much money they make, but will be ok with "it is none of your business."
The only women I've ever encountered who didn't care about the money of the man they're with (or targeting to be with), at all stages, were a couple of artist/hippie types - and they were only indifferent because their fathers were rich, so they didn't need to care.
what the hell are you talking about ? They're the usual suspects of this behavior.
He's right, but you did very well with holding frame. It was a test, you passed. However, she went too far with breaking up with you, so now her status can only ever be a FWB. You raised your status in her eyes by not caring, if she comes back, I bet she never asks again (unless your frame slips).
You did right by not telling her. I mean, you're not even 25, so I assume she's the same. The fact that she doesn't cut you some slack even now shows how here priorities were.
Maybe she only appreciated you for your presumed provider qualities. Maybe she only appreciates any guy his provider qualities, how knows. Fact is you dodged a bullet there.
Or he could just be a guy who doesn't give a shit. I believe firmly that a man should keep his finances his business, until he meets someone and that now becomes their business. I was with my SO for 3 years, we got a house together and are planning our wedding. The moment we moved in and bills became a discussion topic we both placed our most recent pay stubs on the table and pulled up Excel to put a cohesive money management plan together.
I don't think it necessarily means she sees you as beta. If a woman is thinking about marriage, some level of BB is necessary. Most likely she's not going to marry Chad Thundercock, the broke musician.
There's a difference between BB and a good mix of AF/BB.
No disrespect, but I believe that is the case. I have not had 1 girl ever ask me how much I make. I think this is one of those things where she just didn't have enough respect for you (meybe after being bf/gf for a time) to understand that she isn't supposed to ask these things and you did the right thing by nexting her. I know MARRIED couples who still keep finances separate. There's not much more personal than how much money you make.
My stepdad never tells us or even my mom how much money he has. He makes a lot of money due to his career which is known for making fat cash.
This post made me understand why he keeps everything away from anyone, helpful and informative post.
I dont think you live in a city. I have been asked this question by both males and females in the forst 5 minutes of meeting them.
"No Comment"
She asked you because she thinks you're beta.
Because she thinks you're a beta. Why was she even your girlfriend ? If a girl doesn't feel privilaged to be your cumbucket don't even consider dating.
I'll reply to the rest later today I have to go to class now but I had to say she was my cumdumpster.
I saw her almost every single day(she lives less than 5 minutes from me) and fucked her Multiple times every time I saw her. She would do anything I say, I took her assholes virginity, Iv fucked every hole and filled every hole, Iv came on every part of her face and body. She would come to my house in the mornings sometimes and wake me up with blowjobs.
This girl was basically worshiping me up until two hours before she broke it off. I came on her face 3 hours before we broke up...
She intended to charge you for her services. When she thought you had no money, she bailed. When you didn't show any distress over that, she realized you had more value than she had thought.
then I bet she talked about it to other people (likely stupid greedy vaginas like herself) who told her 'are you crazy, Libbit? That guy must be loaded, anyone would see that!' and then she came back crawling.
Only then.
you're a prospective wallet to her. You dump your cum, you have to dump your cash afterwards. That's how she and all women are programmed. She's just more straightforward and unabashed about it than most.
Exactly what Tom Leykis says all the time. Chicks will let you down anything you want - they see all of this as an investment for their future.
Usually it isn't necessary to ask because of what you do for her anyway. My girlfriend doesn't know how much I make and has never asked me, but she knows I make enough to afford going out each weekend and that says something.
edit: clarity- going out each weekend and spending a good amount of money*
I take her out to eat at least once a week, we frequently go on drives to random destinations and we have done plenty of activities such as fishing, rock climbing, and shooting which all cost money.
If she thinks a college student should be spending more on her then she is insane and so are you.
Nevermind, you didn't tell her. Good for you
You are beta. If you didn't want to tell her anything, just simply don't. You let her pressure you for information, then ask this question.
You shouldn't even be in an ltr when you're still in college doing something as hard as engineering, its just going to add unnecessary mental and financial stress.
Wise decision. I suspect that you saved over half your assets, 18 years of a large portion of your net income in the probable divorce.
I would also add, "What do you do for a living?" and or "What do you drive?"
"Motivation" and "life goals" are princess-bitch code for "able to give me money, gifts, food, and housing."
Feel fortunate you can keep it to yourself. My salary since 2012 is available for all to see as the one and two google results for my name. The joy of being a government worker where I live...
Well, in all fairness you can't hide your income from those who actually pay your salary. My boss knows what my income is and every government worker is paid by other people's tax dollars with no choice on their part not to pay unless they quit working or quit being a citizen.
We can argue the politics of the matter all day but it really would be nice if my salary information was shielded from Google like my property assessment records (you can still look up my house but it takes a full 30 seconds of effort *six clicks - I just tried it). When it only takes 5 seconds of effort and two clicks to find one's income one sees a disproportionate number of second, third, or even first date shit tests about it.
Well you're free to hide your salary with one quick move: get a job that isn't paid for by other's tax dollars. It's that simple. There's no reason you should be paid unaccountable to your bosses. If I want to hide my income from my current employer it's easy: I get a new employer.
By that definition of boss, each and every shareholder of the XYZ Big Corporation that employs you should be able to see you much they pay you. After all, they own the company. Right?
That is a great angle, I definitely understand what you're saying.
Would it be more appropriate to disclose only top public officials? Similar to how public companies must disclose executive compensation?
I think that would work. For example elected officials, city/county managers, and department heads.
As I said before, I would also be okay with taking salary information off the radar for Google much the same way as many US counties shield property tax information. Still accessible online but you just have to know where and how to look.
They are and do.
Otherwise they aren't really shareholders, they're just suckers who are out their money and no idea how it's used or if they'll ever get it back. Some never do and when that happens it's always because no one feels obligated to report the spending, including wages. Always.
Don't listen to the ones calling you beta.
Well done.
I find that girls always ask questions designed to estimate how much money you have if they don't already have an idea.
Just wait till your making 150k a year. Fuck gold diggers
As someone making half that, I would love to have that problem.
And as someone making nothing... I have no problems. Ran out of food stamps today. Tinder date with 36 yr old milf tomorrow. Meal ticket here I come!
Forgive my laughter, it is not aimed at you, but her. She is a fuckin moron.
Wealthy family... Engineering student who doesn't need to work to pay his bills and can just focus on his studies... Dumped for having no future.
Headslap
Natural selection at work.
I believe the current meme is now "face palm"
Facepalm is subtle - headslap isn't.
ah, then might I also offer up the Numpty-Hammertm ?
You are correct. As a woman so has been married for 25 years and that married a guy who has pretty well broke I can look back and see that money comes and goes and it is more important that each is willing to sacrifice for the other and that both work as a team. Quizzing you on income at this point is just what you thought. Red flag. It only becomes relevant when an engaged coupled is setting up house and attempting to arrange a budget.
Great lesson and great story! I am glad you did the smart thing and that it worked out for you.
I agree with you, the only thing you could have done better was break up with her on the spot, but 99% is not a bad mark!
Good advice for anyone looking to have an LTR.
I would personally keep the fun going until I got bored or she wanted to break it off.
Good job, keep your head up!
On the other hand, if you are making good money , you should use it to your advantage. As someone who makes 6 figures , I am actually constantly bring it up my money making skills during conversations to get their attention and trust me, it works. This doesn't mean I am going to around spending hundreds of dollars for her. Its a clever tactic you use to get their attention and use to your advantage. so you either get used or use . I choose the latter.
it's like bragging about your cock size before she's seen it. It's not as cool as you think it is.
Seems like you're more likely to come off as try hard doing that.
There is being a gold digger and then there is being a dumb gold digger.
Even American Pie got this right and the franchise is as braindead as Stalin after they dissected him.
Or make fun of her, then walk.
Any women who show interest in your money, more than warranted should either be broken up with or demoted to plate status. For example, you can turn your gf into a plate now.
This has happened to me a few times, I've been asked to state my income in various ways, some of which were pretty comical and some which were pretty direct.
Entitled Ex: "So, how much do you have invested?" Me: "A little bit, haha"
Plate 1: "So, W told me you make x amount, is that true?" Me: "Nope!"
Plate 2: "I'm looking for a guy that will support me and provide me with a certain living standard. I would like to not have to work so that I can raise children and enjoy my hobbies" Me: *Banged her that night and dumped her a few days later
I've also left my income visible on dating sites just to see what happens and the amount of attention that I get from 8's and up that wouldn't give me the time of day normally is astonishing.
This seems like a massive shit test. She sensed it was ending and wanted to get one last try in to get you to conform and prove her wrong.
I'd say you passed with flying colors and are better off without her.
This may sound harsh, but if a woman asks how much you make, and you're not actually a broke, 30+, directionless schlub, then one of two things are at play. Either:
It's really curious that your now–ex-gf wouldn't have "rationalized" your status as a young engineering student as "he'll be making money soon so I wanna stay with him".
If you have not repeatedly left her with the impression that you will be buying your first house before the age of 25, that's on you. And if you have not repeatedly left her with the impression of your cock inside of her vagina, hours after another thrilling, toe-curling love-making session, that is also on you.
Women are hypergamous. Alpha fucks/beta bucks. AWALT. But if you're reading this sub...you already know all this, right?
get back with her, bang her, dump her
and then tell her over text how you deserve better
thats fucking petty bro and makes you seem like a bitch
Alternatively, you can use this type of stuff for bait. Use them strictly as plates without indicating that you're using them.
Only recommended if you're reasonably experienced with women.
Funny how your achievements and ambitions relate to her well being. Hmmm, yea you should punish her with a hard next. I mean no closure what so ever. Not a single text or word should be uttered to her. I hope she sees you with another girl real soon.
She wanted to know how much money is available to throw down the shitter in a wedding.
Shes not paying for your crap, so it is none of her concern.
Beta? Your Alpha as fuck!
She thought you beg like a puppy? AWALT.
And I cringe when I hear a woman say "I should've married him". Cause now he's successful and wealthy. She is not aware that he built that without her. She would have got in the way. Spending his money, telling him what to do....
I was dating a Chinese model in Shanghai. She was always bugging me to "do business" which seemed to mean getting into East-West/import-export, not something I have the interest or expertise for. Her father is some sort of businessman with an income around $100k and the sticking point was that I didn't make as much as he did. Obviously she was complicit but she told me that if she didn't marry up she was on her own (with the counter-intuitive corollary being that if she did find a rich guy, he would buy us a condo).
On our third of three dates (which were actually spread out over a couple years because I was moving back and forth between China and Canada) she jumped all over my penis. Then I never heard from her again.
Based on my lifestyle, I earn the equivalent of maybe $50k. Royalties from my video game start rolling in this summer and will likely be six figures. I will be opening a restaurant late this year or early next year. A bunch of other business opportunities are in the works as well. Meanwhile I got involved with a pretty, but not model quality, woman who after being dumped and then re-assimilated has stopped asking about money.
Second point. My parents parted ways about 40 years ago and my mother made the conscious decision NOT to divorce rape my father. Fast forward and after I put myself through law school he retired a portion of my student debt, and gave me a mickey mouse job at his accounting firm while I sorted out my Gen-X issues. He helped out my two sisters similarly.
Meanwhile, he gets remarried and I find myself with a half-brother who is the little emperor. He gets his full ticket paid to go to get his bachelor's degree and then attend Parsons College in Manhattan to do a masters degree (that was a good decade ago but current estimates put the cost of attendance at over $67k a year.
My father was an only child who inherited his father's estate. He was a successful accountant who - I suspect - amassed least $2 million in real estate and other investments. Then he decides to retire and a month later is diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. His last words to me: "I worked too hard."
The thing is, his second wife - my stepmother - inherited everything. She gave each of the kids about $10k at the time but announced shortly thereafter that I and my sisters were cut out of her will and that my brother would inherit everything on her passing. . .and it would be his choice to be "generous".
In a way, IDGAF but that story provides a nexus between the financial rapaciousness of most women, the points on the spectrum where guys actually pay some or none of their own freight, and a study in evolutionary psychology.
Man...was so touched about your dad, then you mention your stepmom. That was purely messed up.
Looks like you dodged a bullet.
There's nothing wrong with a girl having an interest in the financial and career ambitions of a man she's interested in - if she wants to have a traditional family setup where she stays home and take care of the home and kids and family.
I don't think they had gotten that far.
hahahaha yeah no. Most women are not even closed to that anymore. This was something of the past . Things have changed with women thanks to feminism. Women no longer see themselves as housewives and mothers . To them this is an insult or a weakness. I shudder for the future of this world.
That's golden, Right-on mate
Send her a picture of the money in your accounts & nothing else. Let it burn
And her "goal" is to find a man with goals and hook onto him cause she's a bum bitch.
You sir are amazing.
:D Keep up the good work.
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Good advice. I would feel compelled to disprove the B though.
Ummm, ALL women ask how much you earn. It's one of the only things they're interested in.
Watch...
Next time you have a first date with a woman, see how long it takes before she asks you where you live and whether you rent or own. You'll notice it's one of the very first questions she asks. Every. Single. Time.
I won't tolerate it. For me there is either dating or sex, there's almost never a time when dating has led to sex, so if a girl wants to ask that, I can just walk. I will walk.
I have never been asked how much I have before. I am only 21 so I do have plenty of time to meet those women.
After she broke up you should of explained the situation and how set you are. Thatd really fill her with regret.
Aw... that's a shame. I was really hoping to share the house I was going to buy in a few years; I had a few hundred thousand saved.
I hope you stay well.
yeah thatd be beautiful. Her head might explode.
Who is saying you're beta? That's idiotic.
That's awesome OP, and with any luck she may have learned her lesson, but I doubt it.
Another shit test they do is to ask what you do for a living. When you answer them, you can see the little hamster wheel in their head spinning while they try to figure out how much someone in your career field makes.
"and that she deserves better"
She would think this no matter what. I remember when multiple "Sexiest Man Alive" winner George Clooney got married to someone younger, all these old fat women wrote articles/blogs saying the girl was settling and could do better. A man considered universally attractive, famous, rich, and charitable was not considered worthy of an decent looking younger woman
From her PoV, you will never deserve her and she could always do better. Never marry
Well here's a question.
If women are AWALT and are really evaluating you anyway (basically if a women fucks you, you either have money or your the alpha, but you provide her some value), if you make a good amount of money, why not tell them?
I told my woman once before exactly how much I made... it was much, much more than she made. It definitely raised attraction but it's not like I didn't spell out that we weren't serious and I didn't give her anything of real value in terms of how much it costed anyway.
My question, is why is the fact that she wanted someone who makes more money upset you? Isn't that normal?
It's funny because I should eat my own dog food, because my oneitis. did these things I would get really really mad... but then I would sit there and think and then eventually smile and be like "AWALT... I'm a fucking idiot" and then that would make me better because it's true. The only reason a woman let's me fuck is if I provide her some sort of potential value for her kids (at least from an evolution standpoint). So I have to look good, I have to have resources, I have to have status, or a combination of the three of those. If I don't meet snuff, I'm less than nothing. Isn't that what we basically teach here?
It is normal and normal is bad. What's good is abnormal, a woman who will be good for you rather than exploit you. A woman will exploit you who is focused on how much you make.
she couldn't have wanted someone who made more money because she never knew how much money I make to begin with.
You completely ignored what I'm saying.
Men fuck anything that moves (well rather men spread their seed). Women are picky and fuck men based on their overall value. Women don't just fuck you for no reason... you either have to have very nice game, or look great, or have a lot of status, or make a lot of money.
Your girl, she likes you probably because you are a certain level of alpha and probably are somewhat physically attractive (taking a guess here). If we understand the equation of whether a woman deals with you or not, then why are we offended if she wants to know how much money you make? Isn't she just doing what all women do, and trying to get the best bang for their buck (hypergamy)? It's telling that she challenged you, and then when you stood up... the level of alpha you had compensated for whatever you lacked in monetary resources and she immediately regretted it.
I don't get it. You act as if 99.9% of women don't want to know that you make a good amount of money. Most just aren't audacious enough to ask. And some women (I have experience with this) don't need your money but still want a man who makes a good amount... it shows his mastery and shows he is valuable.
tldr: why would money be important? unless she's a gold digger. and who needs those?
Eh.... A woman wanting to date a guy who is financially secure and with a good future isn't a bad thing. It's like you're intentionally trying to keep this secret from her.
From her perspective, you are broke, going no where, etc. so I can't blame her for not wanting to date you.
It's like meeting a girl online and she refuses to send you any pics at all. Like come on, she could be a model, but I wouldn't blame a guy for dropping her because she shows no indication of being attractive.
I don't know about that. If you break up over not wanting to discuss financial status sounds extreme. Most normal people will respect that boundary you've set, and get over it quickly if it wasn't that important.
Men don't want to be valued for their wealth...
Men won't even contact a "no photo" profile.
You're reading far more into the post than was there.
His finances are none of her fucking business until marriage is being discussed.
Not quite - if a serious girl wants to date someone with the intention to marry, not just whore around, then financial stability and potential kinda matters, as far as she's concerned - at the very least she wants to know that she won't have to provide for you because you'll be jobless playing your PS4 all day and smoking weed.
Girls have their number that influence their SMV (partner count) and men have theirs (how much money they make) and both have their reasons to hide, inflate or deflate it.
Financial stability and potential are in her face already by his choice of major. At least until proven otherwise.
Fuck this gold digging bitch.
Sure... But still, if you give off the "IMAGE" of being a broke slacker going nowhere in life, you can't blame her. If I was a chick, and it LOOKED like he wasn't doing shit with his life and was set on just being a lazy bum with no money, then yeah, I wouldn't date that loser either.
That's the image he's giving off. If he would have at least let on, "Hey I'm not actually that big of a loser, I actually have money saved up." Then show it by doing something a bit more classy, then it would change her perspective.
That would be caring too much for someone too stupid to realize "hmm engineering student, this guys going places".
LOL, dude, that's not the real world. Life is about about skills to reach potential, and the capacity to maximize your potential. There are plenty of skilled people who don't know how to maximize their potential. Sure, you can be an engineering student, but you could end up working for the city, a shitty IT job, or whatever... Or you can go to start the next Google. Who knows. But a good indicator of how well that person maximizes their potential is what they have to show, as a sort of proof of their track record.
Personally, I don't tell people what I have going on financially, but they still know that I have it going well. The last thing I'd want is to be misconceived as broke, slacking, and without direction. If people started perceiving me as that, just because I felt like I didn't want people to know I had some wealth built up for personal reason, then I'd probably lose out on quite a bit of status and personal networking capacity.
Ok Eugene, if you say so.
Personally the only perception that matters to me is my own.
That's a weak cop-out if you ask me. Your status and position in society is important, and goes well beyond just, "fuck the haters. I am who I am, and accept me or fuck off" type of mentalities. For instance, I'm sure bronies only care about themselves and and try to brush off the judgements of society by rationalizing it as they don't give a fuck what other's think and they are happy being who they are.
But that's the sort of mentality that goes against TRP. TRP is about reality, and dealing with reality. If you want success in life and love, you have to recognize the game that's being played, and will continue to be played regardless of whether or not you choose to participate.
Um that was a huge shit test and you failed by acknowledging and responding instead of reflecting/making a joke/deflecting.
If a girl asked me that I would respond with.
I already have an accountant and a financial advisor and I don't think you are qualified for either position.
Or
Are you trying to be my GF or my future ex wife?
Or
Money is a very important and special part of my life, and without having had a threesome with you and your best friends, I just don't feel that we have bonded enough for me to share that side of my life with you.
These are all jokes and you would have to say them all with a big smile and eye contact to work.
But answering directly and refusing to answer are both ways to immediately fail the shit test, and that's why she dumped you.
Never respond directly or have an emotional response to a shit test.
How about I just be blunt about it and tell her I will not tell her because I wont tell her and if she can't deal with that then I dont want to be with her.
She failed her own shit test, I didnt fail anything.
There's the engineering student!
You are not alone in wanting women to change.
But you will be alone if you don't learn how to deal with the way women communicate.
I don't want women to change, well not in the sense that my post refers to. I just want to find a rational woman which doesnt seem likely.
Marriage doesn't seem likely.
You have at least 50 women to bone before you think about marriage.
Rational for a female is relative. Their hormones make them emotional and reactive by nature.
He didn't fail. She's asking to come back to him. He won.
Your questions are OK too, there's more than one right response.
He just failed that particular shit test.
This is why I keep a lot of my wealth in Bitcoins. Nobody will ever have access to it and nobody can take it from me. Not even the goverment.
I can buy just about anything I need and turn it to cash in a moments notice if I need to, and I will keep a certain level of confidentiality that can not be match with cash.
Shit, I am THE bitcoin supporter but the current volatility and 18 month downtrend has me heavily diversified out. It might be a good way toillegally hide assets but not for the long term at the moment.
I would think, in the event of a divorce, you would still be legally obligated to disclose those assets. They might be an easy thing to keep secret, but that's no different than hiding any other assets. You're correct that logistically those assets cannot be seized, but your plan contravenes the law nonetheless.
Depends on the state, it is not consider an asset in every state yet. Also if it cant be seize what do I care.
You could be held in contempt of court and jailed indefinitely until you cough up hidden assets, if they suspect you have them.
no, if they prove you have them. Suspecting isn't enough
You can suspect I have them all you want, but unless you have undeniable proof that a certain wallet belongs to me good luck with that.
Should have answered charismatically instead of with bootyhurt.
"How much money do you make"
2...
much
"what do you do?"
elbow model
"no seriously what do you do and what money you make!"
ooh yeah girl i love when my women start trying to make her way to my heart through my wallet
"elbow model" LMAO :D
IIRC DavidX used to say "I'm a disposable lighter repairman" :D
You may be overreacting.
There is a difference between a gold digger and a woman who doesn't want to spend the rest of her life with a homeless hobo. It's about having standards. Case 1 is somebody, who maximizes income or puts standards very high. Case 2 is somebody with a reasonable minimal standard.
Having some ambition can be admirable and attractive. OTOH the gold diggers will often subvert and manipulate this to mean that you should have ambition to earn as much money as you can ... to give it all to her. It's tricky.
She broke up with an engineering student who has enough to get him to graduation at least. (Honestly I don't understand buying a house unless you have kids (not just a wife) to put in it, but maybe it's a good investment now, I don't claim to know.)
What's he supposed to do, take her back? Realize he was wrong not to show her his balance sheet and income statement because vagina? You can't be serious! lol ...
Not in this particular case, but I see TRP overreacting to questions about jobs and money. OP wants his story to be generalized for us into a rule.
First, a question about a job can be just a conversation filler, because people like to talk about their accomplishments, so asking them about this can be innocent.
Second, I would answer a direct question about money with an "enough to provide for myself/ to be self-reliant". Further questions on this topic become legitimate red flags.
Shes 18, I'm 21. She has no reason to know what I'm worth. Marriage isn't even an option at this point.
please
I had the same thing happen to me, though there were other factors in us breaking up, but the "no job, no motivation and no life goals" was basically word for word what she said to me.
No motivation and no life goals = you won't be a slave for me.
I bet most alphas would come across that way. You get her wet, she's just looking for a beta provider now.
Fellow engineering student here in a similar situation but I have a sizable scholarship and my parents cover the rest. I'm wondering how it is you're making money (good money I assume) and how you know you'll be able to buy your own place before 25? That's damn impressive and no to say I don't work my ass off but god damn dude, good on ya.
I began investing in stocks when I was 17, EVERYTHING I have invested in has risen in value. I was in a car accident that paid me a good deal of money and I invested all of it instead of spending it like most people would and that has helped my balance grow extensively.
There are a few comments stating that my dad just gave me a ton of money but they're wrong. I started on my own and state farm's insurance payout helped me progress quicker.
Watch the market for a few months or more and pick out 10 stocks you are potentially interested in. Watch their trends and read all the information you can find about them. When you feel comfortable enough to buy one then make your move and hope you did the right thing.
I have only invested in large companies that I know won't be failing anytime soon.
Interesting. My brother got hit by a car a few years ago but won't get the money til he's 18. I'll definitely talk to him about using it wisely. Thanks for the advice and good luck with your stocks amigo
Good on you. There are way more fish in the sea, buddy.
Yup. Prettier fish, with better fish bodies, and delicious fish vaginas.
I don't think your actions were beta at all. Good riddance to bad rubbish - she saw you as a future meal ticket, and you were right to NEXT her.
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Your parents were married in an entirely different era.
you don't understand: we men DON'T want to spend the rest of our lives with women, if we're smart, either at all ever, or unless she's proven herself to be worthy.
Just as a man will get the most pussy by acting like he's too good to care to chase, a woman is only worthy of a man spending his income on her most / all of her life if she's unwilling to show she will chase for that income. If she gives chase for the money she isn't worthy of it.
Maybe when you're planning for marriage it could be acceptable depending on your personal views. But while dating, not even 4 months into a relationship, while we're in college... I don't see how that is a relevant question.
We were together less than 4 months...
Maybe when I'm ready to marry someone Ill tell them all of that stuff but a new GF doesnt need to know these things IMO.
Well fucking done. Did you notice any other red flags prior to your money-making-skills incident?
shes 18, her dad died when she was younger and her mom is over protective.
Are those red flags?
A promise of future benefit has limited influence on current/future association, with the influence inversely proportionate to the length of time until the benefit will be given.
Was this girl older than you? She may have been in a rush or looking for an immediate fix for her needs/wants.
Can we get more background on her?
18, dad died when she was younger, mom is over protective, two older brothers, one of which is a very cool guy, the other has some mental issues or something I'm not to sure what his problem is but he hates me and he has hit my ex on multiple occasions.
I posted about him hitting her on TRP a few weeks ago but deleted the post because everyone just called me a wk for caring about my gf being abused by her brother.
Sounds like she has a lot of insecurities then.
What kind of engineering are you studying?
How do you feel about your parents parenting? They sound like really fucking awesome human beings. (Mine were both alcoholics from age 8-18, thanks mum and dad! :P )
Mechanical but I am considering switching to Cryogenic.
Gj and your writing sounds relieved... no contact and stay on path. Text break up by gf? (Assuming ltr...) over reaching bridge destroying shit test... although (this isn't an insult) she didn't sound that in to you considering she broke it off over money making her think you're bb. You handled it like a champ and the way most men in that spot should but often don't because of their up bringing. Gj and never speak to her again.
What does she have, besides the classic self-entitlement?
What you did is hold frame like a solid alpha and you made her next herself so now she will feel guilty for doing it and she's out of your life.
Excellent move: checkmate.
Wow so much hate for a guy who's parents did their job. Fuck them OP success is the best revenge
$500 says this chick is asian or a blonde "part time/aspiring model". This sounds like typical asian bimbo skank behavior.
Happened to me too. I dated a model last weeks. She does some ads for TV and all. I'm very wealthy and I have a engineer degree and my own business, thats why I don't have a commuter job, you dumb bitch :P
Confidence is silent
Insecurity is loud
I'm not even going to bother to check the comments, but I hope somebody else has pointed out the hypochrisy in your post or that at least you can manage to figure it out yourself.
Everyone here who says he should have told her how much he earns misses one crucial point... whatever he says, it won't be good enough. Why? Well there are 2 options, either he makes less than she wants, or more than she wants. Imagine her imaginary figure is 100k per year. If he earns less than 100k, he is not worth fucking with. If he earns more, than he is a tight bitch if he doesn't spend more money on her.
Money in general should not enter the conversation, she should be with you because you fuck her well.
I've met a few girls like this through friends. They all seem to have a whole slew of orbiters.
I'm thinking there's more to this story. Breaking up with a girl simply because she is curious about your financial status is a little much, in my opinion. It's one thing if she displays other red flags that show she's in it for and reliant on your fortune, but I don't believe it's a ridiculous end-all situation that a girl wants to know what kind of man you are. In fact, I'd say a man values a woman for her past, but a woman values a man for his future. Women value a man just as much who they believe WILL be successful as one who is already successful. If she believed you have 'no motivation' and 'no life goals' I'm willing to bet you have some red flags of your own.
This is all just a guess, but your takeaway from it is wrong IMO.
She broke up with him first, over text, and later said stuff about motivation so she doesn't seem like a golddigger. Him not replying to her is reasonable.
Not convinced you're really drawing the right lesson here. Sounds a lot like she screened a lack of ambition in you, and something tells me you probably shouldn't have let her get to the point where she is able to draw this kind of conclusion.
It's easier to point the mundane cupidity of women but unless you've run into an especially greedy chick, displaying enough ambition should normally spare you this kind of shit-test.
I agree with this at your age and 20's but I feel dating in 30's 40's and above if it gets serious enough should disclose how much each other make. In teens and 20's I would definitely break it off immediately.
I would still fuck her in the ass and keep making money.
I know there is a prevailing thought that says you should not have contact with her anymore but I think you should consider this. Meet back up with her and begin having sex with her. Avoid any discussion regarding reigniting the relationship as long as you can and when the day arrives where you can avoid it no longer tell her that you just don't want anything serious with her. Why deny yourself? It would be perfect practice for maintaining frame.
Off topic but you pissed me off. You don't have a job and you're bragging about how financially responsible you are because your dad gave you a trust fund. Give me a fucking break. We all know whose money you'll be buying that house with.
Damn dude I'm sorry I'm sorry you had to grow up to become a faggot. The only money I have received from my dad is nothing because a college fund is used to pay college expenses. I don't get to keep that money, he is just keeping me out of debt.
The money I have saved for a house is money I earned through investing my own money that I earned and saved through out my life from previous jobs.
I'll give you a fucking break and leave it at that before you kill yourself out of jealousy.
Haha you get so mad you call me a faggot and retort "my dad doesn't give me money he just pays for everything."
You should be a stock broker, not an engineer, if you can afford a house by investing the money you made delivery pizzas in high school. I'm sure your dad didn't give you anything, since only a self made man would get so butthurt to call people on the internet faggots.
lol. I was actually a custom fabricator working on performance cars. I started as an intern as a sophomore in high school and worked my way to about $25 per hour as a senior. I quit the following summer.
You are a faggot, its the truth.
Also what happened to your dad telling you not to tell people how much you make? Lol one internet argument later and you're trying to prove your worth to me "25/hr!!!!!!"
The lesson I stated I learned in my original post was not to date women who ask how much you make. I am assuming you are male. I also do not want to date you. I stated that my dad taught me not to tell anyone how much you make, but I didn't relay that lesson in my original post.
No one's going to pay a 17 year old to work a CNC $25/hr unless it's your dad's shop.
You tried pretending you don't get any help and then admitted your dad pays for literally everything.
Now you're trying to tell me you're going to buy a house with the job your dad gave you and overpaid you for, because your investments performed 3x better than the market. But you didn't get any help I'm sure.
Keep calling me a faggot if it makes you feel tough, you're behaving exactly how I'd expect an ungrateful boy to behave. After all, until you actually pay your own bills you are ARE just a boy
There's no point in defending myself since the only way to truly prove what I am claiming is true would to reveal who I am and I'm not going to do that. Believe what you want.
doesn't have a job now and if in engineering that's because a lot of study time is required to do well.
Not to worry, working in the field between semesters is part of how engineers get employed so that will be coming.
The root of the problem is YOU picked the wrong woman to have a relationship with.
If you think the amount of money you made was the whole issue you are mistaken. She started dating you for a reason....
Her reason for dating me is, her words "because you care about me and make me feel special and I feel good about myself when I'm with you".
Seemed like a pretty good reason to me, up until this point all we had done is go for hikes, have sex and go out to eat at normal places ranging from mcdonalds to the cheesecake factory.
I don't understand how this is redpill. Part of a mans value to a woman is his financial status. All women are like that. All women want wealthy men in their lives for both themselves and future children so they have nice lives. You're actively shitting on a checkmark in the box of LTR wants if you do what OP did.
I would recommend amused mastery instead. Deflect the bullshit and when/if the time comes get a prenup. They don't need to know how much money you make but coming off as a poor dude isn't attractive.
This sub is weird sometimes. It's like the you go girl attitude when girls shun typical beauty standards
It worked because actually he has enough, and a good future. She miscalculated and now pays the price. Cool.
NO. Part of a man's value is to himself and he can't have that if he gives up his mystique or his money. A woman has to be worthy of money, investment, and most are not. Plates are not: you can be the skittles guy and not only give her little but condition her to it, filter for women who will go for that.
NOT all women will be gold-diggers and if you don't put your foot down on it right away you are filtering to let IN gold diggers instead of keeping them out.