What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?

kalstate · 2015-06-15T03:55:57+00:00

These posts seem to be getting better lately. It's as if TRP is evolving. I love to see this, my brothers... These are the right questions we must be asking ourselves.

kaspell · 2015-06-15T06:05:04+00:00

I've often asked myself this question. I'm gonna be 36 in less than a month and I'm just now starting to feel like a man again. It's been a bit of a trip to tell the truth, and when I sit back and get out of my head and look at the things I've done and what I've experienced, I go wow... why do i not feel confident? 'Saving private Ryan, was the first time I remember really asking myself... what makes a life worth living? I remember asking my dad, who is by all measures a great man... he had no answer for me.

A bit of background. In my brief time on this earth, I've been on a nationally ranked wrestling team throughout high school in 4A, should have taken state at least twice but didn't. I've run a nuclear power plant on a naval submarine, I've worked as an operator in chemical plants, done ironwork in refineries, been on search and rescue teams (fire/rescue/hazmat). I managed to get an engineering degree from one of California's more prestigious public schools in my 30's and am now working as an engineer for the Gov in a role I really can't talk about. I've seen and been involved with the dark underbelly of society at times in my past, to the point which nothing really ever surprises me anymore, with the exception of people being stand up when I would have banked against it.

The thing is, after getting into some near life wrecking legal trouble in my twenties my self esteem got wrecked. I felt more like an adult at 24 than than I did until quite recently when I took stock of what I've actually been a part of as a contributing member of society.

As far as I can tell, the true test of a man, boils down to being able to walk away from the things that leave feelings of regret. It's a lot like how I see happiness. If you're happy/content, more than you aren't, you're winning at this life thing. If you go for something and fail, but left it all out on the line... you won. The only real regret is the lesson unlearned or the mistake repeated.

I guess the point I want to share is that, in my experience, We (I) can be our harshest critics. The self can be ruthless, we are not objective when it comes to our own place in the scheme of things. Do what feels right, avoid the things that feel like your getting away with something, own your mistakes, treat people with as much kindness as you can muster. These are the things I've found that have helped start to reclaim my own respect and begin feeling like a man again. Woman and relatioships are all secondary or tertiary issues to how you treat and deal with self.

Hopefully you got something from this, I'm out of practice soap-boxing, but wanted to share as this topic.... what qualifies the title 'Man' is one that I ponder often and is central to the things I care about.

trpmanforlife · 2015-06-15T04:08:08+00:00

THIS is core TRP philosophy right here. TRP isn't about getting chicks, it's about improving yourself and making yourself the best man possible and going out there and experiencing new and unique things. The work that you produce and your legacy will be remembered after your death, not how many chicks you banged or how much beer you could hold.

TheQuestion78 · 2015-06-15T04:50:04+00:00

I agree with the general sentiment but this is idolized view of history to me.

Most men of the Great Depression fucking died of starvation.

Most men in the World Wars died before they could even raise a family or if they were lucky went home a cripple.

Most of the chivalrous and brave knights of the Middle Ages typically didn't see more than one battle ever in the lives. Most of their time was spent playing nice with lords and oppressing serfs.

Most men throughout all of time simply went through the motions of life. They, like the typical man of today, grew up, learned a trade (got a job), raise a family, and eventually died.

What I am trying to say is our generation isn't at a much more disadvantage as you imply OP. Yes because of the internet and technology most of our days are spent glued to our computers or TVs, but I am sure the men of old spent most of their time on hobbies of little value as well.

All that being said we definitely ought to make the most out of ourselves and break the mold of the "average" male who does nothing but go through the motions.

PowerfulHTX · 2015-06-15T06:08:53+00:00

The way our society is set-up now, a man has to choose the road less traveled, the harder route. With all these creature comforts we have available in our modern age, it seems very easy to slide into complacency. It's so easy to go to college, get drunk, take a shit job, eat shit food, sit on the couch everyday, get lost in sitcoms, and next thing you know 40 years have gone by. It's terrifying.

Unfortunately, I don't see many men choosing the tough route that was necessary in the past. My friends and I often joke about the "pussification" of America. It is all to real. It is something that has me greatly worried for the future.

slippery_people · 2015-06-15T07:16:07+00:00

What if a demon crept after you into your loneliest loneliness some day or night, and said to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence - even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence will ever be turned once more, and you with it, you speck of dust!" - Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth, and curse the demon that so spoke? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment in which you would answer him: "You are a God, and never did I hear anything so divine!" If that thought acquired power over you as you are, it would transform you, and perhaps crush you; the question with regard to all and everything: "Do you want this once more, and also for innumerable times?" would lie as the heaviest burden upon your activity! Or, how would you have to become favorably inclined to yourself and to life, so as to long for nothing more ardently than for this last eternal sanctioning and sealing?

vengefully_yours · 2015-06-15T05:14:08+00:00

Those are good questions to ask yourself, what have you done? What accomplishments have you achieved in spite of apparently insurmountable obstacles and impossible odds? What can you do, as in what do you know you're capable of? You know because you've been tested.

Me? Easy. Two wars, a crazy amount of work punctuated by boredom and terror, which on it's own might be enough. The rest of my life outside those five years separated by a decade, has also been a challenge. I've fought my way back from barely being able to walk. Endured a decade of physical abuse. Achieved a rather hard earned career in wrestling both in high school and in the military. I build cars, not just slap parts on something, I take a rusted out bare shell and make it haul ass, handle well, and run like a practically new car. Full frame off restorations and street machine builds, doing 99% of the work required.

I'm a great dad to my daughters despite the shit the state and my ex did to prevent me from being part of their lives. Of everything this is my proudest part, even if there was 12 years I wasn't allowed to be there for them.

You don't have to be impressed, I simply did my jobs, and I have fun with engines rather than computers. If you want to have confidence, you must be tested. Without the tests, the stress, the dangerous opportunities to overcome what forces others to stop, you will not know just how much you can endure. Once you've endured a great hardship and have been tested, everything else seems insignificant and petty. Stress is easy to handle when you've had lots of it.

Heavy lifting builds you, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Hard men are built by hard lives. Soft men have soft lives. If you want to be hard, you have to earn it. So go earn it.

nosesandsight · 2015-06-15T06:06:40+00:00

There are thousands of things to do to have stories to tell...

Have a threesome
Participate in an amateur boxing match
Hike the Pacific Coast Trail
Do crazy awesome hallucinogens with a Shaman
Ride a motorcycle across asia
Open a bar or a restaurant
Learn to surf in nicouraga
Learn to do acrobatics or trapeeze
Live in a monastry for a month
Play music on the street for money
Live out of a truck and travel the country
Learn to repair motorcycles or cars or boats
Go to a Dance Party on drugs and let loose

There is a fucking awesome gorgeous world out there. With lots of crazy beautiful things to do and see and participate in. You don’t need a war or paramilitary training. You just need a sense of adventure and mischief.

(Thanks for the post... quality writing and thoughts)

Yakatonker · 2015-06-15T04:45:37+00:00

We were warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price of feeling entitled to old age in front of the fire and getting fat. Now we are a generation of spiritually and physically fat and old men at age 20 wondering what this nagging feeling at the back of our collective heads is.

You haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. Short of military service or a committed effort to traveling what could you tell your grandchildren that they'd care for? What have you done to deserve being a family elder, someone to listen to, what have you seen or done that was in anyway remarkable?

Military is a grinder for the economically poor and a hardcore incentivizer of slavery which draws in predatory women(military benefits/credits for married service men). Traveling is fun but over rated in a sense of necessity, really most people are incapable of actually analyzing and observing anything of note from such travels and or establishing and expanding their perspectives, at most its only a means to establish social credit in a local environment which lends more to gynocentric capitol.

The so called fat generation is limited by economical factors, women are not economical, Gynocentrism isn't as attractive or as effective as a dopamine dispenser as video games. Women are also not economical because the new distribution of wealth amongst women, but because the mass dive in male participation in the jobs market and the economy of hypergamy makes most men completely unattractive. Video games are a great redistribution of male time and effort, rather then the abuse of women for men who've fallen below the economic belt line for a majority of women. Most guys here are gynocentric and frankly don't give a shit about the macro, "blue pill men" so this often flies over them and they go into conspiracies about socialism, lazy ass millennials, which are all poor excuses(the alpha hampster) for their own information/perspective deficits.

Does it matter what your legacy is, should such a thing even matter? Frankly being realistic you're being what's termed as a romanticist, an idealist. What actually matters most to children is your investment of time in them, that's the most premium item by which a child, grandchild will ever remember you by if you're in a close familial relationship.

vandaalen · 2015-06-15T06:29:53+00:00

What I did to deserve being called a man? I acted like a man when I was treated like a man by society.

I didn't give up in the moment I was laying in the gutter and was tempted to choose the easy way out and relief myself from the burden of having to stand myself. I fought my way back up. I grabbed myself by my hair and pulled myself out of the shithole I was in.

And I am still fighting every day and I will never give up again. Most other men at my age have given themselves up already. They are dead without knowing it. They are just waiting for their body to follow their mind and for when the time comes to close their eyes forever.

They are trying to lie to themselves, that they are living the life they always wanted, while getting fatter and fatter. They numb themselves with beer and weed to be able to ignore that nagging feeling, that they've built their own prison for themselves and are now unable to escape because of obligations they feel they have and the social pressure they cannot withstand.

redpillbanana · 2015-06-15T06:52:11+00:00

Good post in general but I take issue with lines such as the following:

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

This is similar to the "Man up" and "Serve your country" sort of talk, which is a way to shame you into being accountable to someone else instead of yourself.

Personally, I don't care whether I'll be able to entertain my grandkids with my stories. I don't live my life just so I can have stories for my grandkids, I live it for myself, and if my grandkids happen to like who I am, then that's a small bonus. It's more likely they'll be playing their XBox 1000 or watching their version of Spongebob or Dragon Ball Z than it is for them to be chatting with their grandfather - it's an unfortunate fact of today's society, and I don't want their parents to force them to spend time with me.

However, if my grandkids happen to see their swole grandfather working out and they happen to get interested in me on their own, then yes, I'll give them all kinds of great RP advice and stories.

IMAO: Don't live life so your parents will be proud of you and brag about you to their friends. Don't live your life so you can impress your kids or grandkids. Don't live life so you'll have plenty of people weeping at your funeral. Don't live life so you'll have great stories to impress others. Live life so you can look in the mirror and be happy with what you see.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T06:05:37+00:00

Life sometimes gives you the trials that either destroy you or make you stronger. If they make you stronger, I consider that you can proudly call yourself a man.

My wife and my first cousin/best friend both died of sudden brain defects (Anuresym for her, undetected tumor cutting blood flow for him) within 4 weeks of each other. To add extra fuel, wife and I had separated 6 weeks before she died. So heavy shit.

Thankfully I had a great father and mother that gave me the tools to manage putting away both peoples lives and then making myself stronger from it.

I believe if you can handle extreme loss and still make it through the insurance, the legal and the family issues that crop up then you can do anything.

Since this happened I have visited 15 countries, been with 50+ girls from 10+ countries, had 3 different jobs increasing my salary 50% with work that I love and actually now have a proper RPW as an LTR (she's new but she checks all the boxes but I know AWALT) not bad for 3.5 years of hard work.

So my measure of a man is does he control his destiny or does someone else? And if his world crumbles can he rebuild it better?

2015-06-15T09:59:00+00:00

I'd like to give you people a great example of this. I live in Israel, a military country, surrounded by enemies, years of war and years of unbelievable suffering and courage. My grandfather, killed during a war. My grandmother, ran from her home, joined the army. My great grandfather, escaped before the beginning of the Holocaust. Most of the grandfathers of this country came to a deserted, dry, horrible land and built a fucking country. What have we now? A generation obsessed with iPhones, obsessed with stupid shit. My little sister asked me once "What will we tell our grandchildren", "I don't know" I said. Men became men at the age of 13 and not at the age of 30. They weren't lost and confused, they new what they had to do and they did it.

VayneWolf · 2015-06-15T05:05:31+00:00

Excellent post. I'm in my early 20s, and I absolutely hate it when people call me a man.
We are not men just because we are male and reach a certain age, a real man is forged though years of hardship and effort to EARN the lifestyle he has worked to achieve.
There are very few real men left in these times, and it's communities like the Red Pill that give me hope that someday we adult males can become real men like our forefathers who lived, fought, and died to bring mankind as far as it's come.
Modern Feminism is an insult to their memory.

RPmatrix · 2015-06-15T05:24:03+00:00

[deleted]

6030747 · 2015-06-15T10:51:04+00:00

been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model

I don't consider these things to be manly.. but whatever.

Tom_The_Human · 2015-06-15T04:55:27+00:00

[deleted]

ChadThundercockII · 2015-06-15T09:40:08+00:00

Survived cancer, refused to submit to depression and enjoyed a fulfilling life despite lots of physical handicaps and a short life expectancy. Ah, I am about to marry, even if I cannot have kids and I am not supposed to live to 60. Life is short, but good

sundaybrunch11 · 2015-06-15T08:46:15+00:00

Reminds me of the book "Assault on Lake Casitas" which is a book recommended here on TRP itself. It was a book about real men on a quest for Olympic glory. The author's mentor gave him a tape with words of wisdom to get him in the right mindset. It starts off like this and would always give me chills:

" Good day. We are privileged to live another day in this magnificent world. Today you will be tested."

How does this relate to your post? It is in being tested do we get our rites of passage. To be tested to our absolute limits. To be like warriors soldiering on towards a formidable foe.

Wake up everyday with the mindset that today, you will be tested.

RebelWithoutANose · 2015-06-15T11:43:07+00:00

It's easy to romanticize this shit. Fight in a war. Fight in a pub. Do something that excludes caution. Yes, adversity is good, except when it breaks you. Ever heard of survivorship bias? A lot of those men died. A lot who didn't only came out with enough strength to just get by.

What you need to do depends on what your goal, I mean your philosophical ideal, really is.

You want to feel the greatest heights of emotion and adrenaline? Jump off cliffs, start doing drugs, and accept your truncated lifespan.

You want stable happiness? Fix your relationship with your parents, make enough money that you don't have to worry about it, and find something living to take care of, whether it's a family or just a potted plant.

You want to live the Christian good life? Marry a woman, raise some kids, and bend over backwards to make their lives good.

You want to aleviate suffering in the short term? Donate to a charity. Better yet, move to a developing country for a couple of years, do everything you can to help. Last I read, 10% of the world lacks disease-free water. That's a lot of people dying every day.

You want to perpetuate the human race in the long term? Start studying science. Biotech, artificial intelligence, life extension science -- pick one.

Venkas · 2015-06-15T19:46:42+00:00

[deleted]

-Quotidian · 2015-06-15T07:17:23+00:00

I've experienced that discontent before. It happens whenever I have too much free time and catch up on all the things I let slip. Once I have nothing to do…I get the feeling that I should be out pillaging. If there are any stories I have--not that I plan to have children for a long time yet--they center around standing up for myself, overcoming certain obstacles, and pulling off some crazy shit by the skin of my teeth. But those stories are amusing or entertaining, not inspiring…and barely respectable, in a few cases.

You're right. We need to do more with ourselves. I think most of us need to build up to anything epic, like ice-climbing, but it can be done. Traveling somewhere alone is a great first step. Just like with lifting or approaching, you just need to keep moving forward.

OilyB · 2015-06-15T07:37:37+00:00

Our purpose imo, is not practical as much as it is more abstract. It has evolved into abstraction. We're not saving lives and killing mammals to protect our families, not building boats and houses with our own hands. Not fighting wars against intruders that endanger our villages. We can work and provide for our families, that's the same as building houses. We can develop peacetime, take it one step further. We can pursue nobility and all the virtues contained in it.

Ours is maybe a spiritual journey, a spiritual mission. Building or developing integrity, truthfulness, being helpful, strength, frustration tolerance, presence of mind, wisdom, insight, knowledge. These are enough to keep a man busy for a lifetime. And throwing our children as far into the future as we can by making them capable people; well rounded adults, is as good a mission as any. (as opposed to just having them survive into adulthood by feeding them and bathing them).

Any thoughts?

jx234 · 2015-06-15T14:07:24+00:00

Whilst I agree this is a great post, I struggle with the idea that men need hardship in order to become men.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that many on this sub actually wish life was more difficult for the majority of the population, as it was during WW2 or the Great Depression.

I think there's a tendency to romanticize hardship here. It's true, a lot of veterans would say that their experiences helped them become the men they are, but that's kind of a truism. It's taking a "no point crying over spilt milk" view. They would have preferred for there to not have been a world war, because the reality of wars, depressions etc, is not stoic men sitting round a fire, being morally serious and talking about how they'll get through this together. It's children screaming because they're literally starving, it's young naive teenage boys being unceremoniously slaughtered, it's men facing the shame of being unable to provide for themselves because of circumstances out of their control.

So while it's true that maybe our lives are too easy these days (See Steven Pinker, 'Why Violence has Declined'), having a lot of beta men these days is a small price to pay. Sure, people should be encouraged to be ambitious, but if they choose to sit in front of the TV all day it's a shame, but better than being mindlessly slaughtered.

oldredder · 2015-06-15T09:22:47+00:00

A life of peace is not a bad life. Your post, I say, is out of line. Choose adventure, choose improvement but don't act like only you know what it is.

You don't. A shit-ton of your comments are garbage and this post... is not so good.

We can't all be warrior adventurers. IF we were there'd be no society at all, no civilization, only mercenaries and bandits.

This man you criticize is in fact doing a good thing just not what you want to do. You see but a small shot of time vs a life-time not yet passed for this father to raise his son.

You need to learn humility and listen more, write less. You're out of line.

narazz · 2015-06-15T07:05:09+00:00

sadly just taking some night classes and getting anAS in art at 34 was an accomplishment for me. pretty much my life is a failure but i'm hoping maybe one day i can at least get good at art. :)

btw the military sucks. i couldnt last a month in it. thankfully my knee gave out on me haha.

theHangedGod · 2015-06-15T08:04:11+00:00

This is beautifully written and the question you raise is one I've had to face throughout my life, so I'll say my piece.

The patriarchy of my family is filled with conquerers. Directly decendend from vikings, my great grandfather homesteaded, broke the land, and broke broncos. My grandfather rebuilt his father's land after 12 children inherited equal shares. My father rose to fame in football, and later, in business. But, me, I was born a wounded child in an tamed land.

Sports were always a struggle and all exploration is done. But all I ever wanted to be was greater than my father and a man who braves the unknown. I lack interest in anything else.

So here I sit, on a computer, exploring whatever's new on the Internet. Wishing there was more unknown to voyage into. Working on a farm I'm destined to be given. But wanting to earn my own existence. A middle child of history.

It's incredible how your eyes open when you find something that was hidden away from you.

I'd heard stories of my viking ancestors being shroom heads, I'd heard Joe Rogan talk about psychedelics on his podcast, I'd even heard a few first hand stories from my musically inclined friend. But, I had no idea what spirituality was until I did it.

For my generation, the war is spiritual. Religion is dying and I was in the wave that killed it. But, the reason religion started still exists, it only faded back into the unknown. I found my place to explore and it's entirely within my own perception.

The psychedelic experience is a tradition in nearly every single culture to ever exist, same with religious traditions. I could speak on this, but I'll direct you to Terence McKenna, there is much more.

It's what I was born to rediscover.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T08:56:31+00:00

I'm an EMT in my early 20's. I'm earning my fuckin stripes

causeandcorrelation · 2015-06-15T09:39:15+00:00

Great post. Thanks for your contribution.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T09:48:38+00:00

[deleted]

Opanion · 2015-06-15T10:16:29+00:00

The Great War can't come soon enough.

CptDefB · 2015-06-15T10:23:10+00:00

TL;DR: Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis. The criteria posited by the OP is outdated, and while serves as great supplement to "Manliness", shouldn't eclipse the true definition in our present environment; money and status. Also, the idea of "deserve to be called a man" is about as silly as, "I want a REAL man.", despite them both alluding to similar, but not the same.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion based on the general level of agreement in this thread. I'm going to disagree with you. As usual, I'll try to explain so we can come to understandings.

So, your metric for Manliness is outdated. I get it, trial by fire/combat/ordeal/whatever. Struggle shapes us, we lose/learn and try to create positive feedback loops if we want to Halo effect our way to victory. No disagreements.

The things you used to describe "manliness", don't work any more. Military service? Anyone aware of geopolitics should be dubious of their own gov/military (and many things learned from can be learned outside of). Travelling? Also no. A cultured man, travel alone does not make. Millions of people spend time traveling and learn fuck all. They spend some money, take some photos, update Facebook then their 2-6 weeks are over... "Omg, it was amaaazing!" Right, sure.

As we came out of the caves of prehistory and built ourselves up to post industrialization, money and status are pretty much the top two, especially in Western societies where the threat of violence is minimal and most of all human knowledge/experience is a Google search away. Most great-grandparents wouldn't know what the fuck I'm talking about, the world has changed that much. They will still understand status and resources, that has never changed.

What's the point?

"Manliness" is a male construct? Something like that. "What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?" I have a dick, so do you. End of story. This question alone sounds a lot like, "I want a REAL man, not a boy." Everyone's all, "Yeah yeah, I want to be a REAL man. My great-grandkids will make old tough guy memes out of me!" No, my friends, do not let the goal posts be moved.

Money. Status.

Ask yourself this: Would you prefer your great-grandparents had "cool stories" and were very interesting, or would you prefer they had status and wealth, to make the lives of their descendants (including you) way easier, during which they could also pass on said stories via wealthy/powerful personalities they've actually met and introductions to said people (for your parents perhaps, who should do the same for you in turn)?

So yeah, go travel, put yourself in difficult situations so that your brain will form new points of reference for your experiences. However, I would say, don't move Money & Status away from their top positions on your list of priorities, even if spinning plates isn't your thing. Surrogacy and single parenthood for a wealthy and successful man would probably be a pretty good life for the child in question... again, probably better than, "let me tell you this story for the 50th time". Lifting weights and making money, according to the new Metric of Manliness™ should score higher as they are more relevant and useful to the landscape we deal with on a daily basis.

You could go be all kinds of interesting... money/status/frame... that's all that matters. Sell drugs, reshape Wall St., makes about 0 difference as long as the main 3 (I know, it was 2 a moment ago) are upheld.

Example: Littlefinger from Game of Thrones. Money. Status. Frame. Doesn't need to be King, doesn't need to conquer on a battlefield... sure, oneitis for Stark but no matter, he made a life for himself. You could sub Littlefinger for any real world, strong business minded person... even if they're not an overt alpha personality, so long as they have the 3, they're "manly enough" just fine. An even better example would be Varys, who can't even fuck and is fatter than most guys here. Fictional, sure. In all of human history, try to tell me a man like Varys didn't exist (especially when the practice was so common as little as 1000 years ago in our 3-5 million years as a species).

charlesomimri · 2015-06-15T11:28:21+00:00

“Hmm! Adventure. Hmmpf! Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things." Keep your commitments. That is the person who is always referred to as "the man". That is the person who shows up for war or adventure or dinner. You may find that what you consider "the truth" may change over time. Being consistent to your word will not.

curiousdude · 2015-06-15T16:16:25+00:00

That fight club quote is stupid. Having a great war or great depression to be in is not a good thing. Take risks and try to do something great, but the idea that war or externally imposed hardship makes life meaningful is pure b.s. Just because there's some fantasy out there of being a millionaire doesn't mean you can't have a meaningful life some other way.

masturbator9000 · 2015-06-15T22:30:36+00:00

Great post. I keep asking myself the same question recently. Especially the "Is that it?" part.

Not gonna lie, it's really depressing. As much as am willing to form myself into a man that is worthy of that title, I don't have a single clue where to start.

How does one become such a man nowadays? The only true challenges we know are health financial success, more or less. Considering those are the only things you can take with you into old age. "I banged a thousand sluts" will be worthless fifty years down the line.

vintagegirlgame · 2015-06-15T09:25:53+00:00

I know one of the most enlightening and character building experiences my boyfriend had was taking 13 months to travel solo around the world at age 19. He busted his ear drum surfing in Hawaii, he rock climbed all over New Zealand, he made a didgeridoo in Australia, he rode a dirt bike across Zanzibar, he studied with the Bushmen in South Africa, he dug the safari bus out of the dirt when the guides were useless... I never get tired or hearing his travel stories and I know it's the kind of tradition he will want to pass down to his sons. Specifically, making the journey alone was life changing.

The next commitment he wants to make is learning to sail and making an ocean crossing.

Masonjarteadrinker2 · 2015-06-15T06:22:52+00:00

I don't ever save anything, but I couldn't help but to save this right here.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T06:36:43+00:00

The answer is blowin' in the wind.

RPmatrix · 2015-06-15T06:46:28+00:00

I suddenly became an orphan at 17yo and literally moved from the house I'd grown up in onto the streets

I had NO choice but to "man up" or be fucked over.

that was the start, 30+yrs ago, and I'm still working on it

monzzter221 · 2015-06-15T06:49:53+00:00

"That and a pair of testicles"

--the dude

Autodidact-Sanchez · 2015-06-15T10:35:45+00:00

Thanks for posting. It reminds me of a section from Marcus Aurelius' "Meditations" that I wrote down in my diary (If you haven't read this book, HIGHLY recommended...I also highly recommend a diary):

At break of day, when you are reluctant to get up, have this thought ready in mind: 'I am getting up for a man's work. Do I still then resent it, if I am going out to do what I was born for, the purpose for which I was brought into the world? Or was I created to wrap myself in blankets and keep warm?' 'But this is more pleasant.' Were you then born for pleasure- all for feeling, not for action? Can you not see plants, birds, ants, spiders, bees all doing their own work, each helping in their own way to order the world? And then you do not want to do the work of a human being- you do not hurry to the demands of your own nature. 'But one needs rest too.' One does indeed: I agree. But nature has set limits to this too, just as it has to eating and drinking, and yet you go beyond these limits, beyond what you need. Not in your actions, though, not any longer: here you stay below your capability. The point is that you do not love yourself- otherwise you would love both your own nature and her purpose for you. Other men love their own pursuit and absorb themselves in its performance to the exclusion of bath and food: but you have less regard for your own nature than the smith has for his metal-work, the dancer for his dancing, the money-grubber for his money, the exhibitionist for his little moment of fame. Yet these people, when impassioned, give up food and sleep for the promotion of their pursuits: and you think social action less important, less worthy of effort?

falafin · 2015-06-15T10:45:37+00:00

I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life. What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

That's what I am thinking. I've never really liked the traditional script that society dictates people, go to college, get a job, start a family and live happily every after. At the age of 18 (I'm 22now) I decided that since I am already on this sorry world, might as well have an interesting life. After first year of university, I hitchhiked 2k kilometers to Paris, with only a couple of euro, slept under Eiffel Tower for a couple of days and then hitchhiked back. I was scared to death, anxious but deep inside I knew that I have to do this. I always think this was the rite of passage for me, that's the moment when I finally found my balls and started living.

Now, having found TRP and reading stuff here, I really think I'm on the right path. I want to spend my 20s traveling, backpacking, hitchhiking or whatever. Maybe in my 30s I'll settle down, maybe not. One thing I am sure, I'm gonna see the world and do something interesting.

cmycorps · 2015-06-15T12:57:12+00:00

This is TRP at its core, and for me was the most empowering realization I had- getting women and doing something great with life aren't separate things, they are both byproducts of living a life with no disconnect from our true masculine desires.

Jimmy_Big_Nuts · 2015-06-15T13:24:09+00:00

Sorry dude, speak for yourself on this one, you must have been lucky or had rich parents or something. Some of us can claim we achieved something against bad odds. Had a fight for life. It does make you a man, you're right. Men aren't born, they are made. Forged against adverse conditions. You aren't a man until you faced something alone so harrowing it removes your sense of innocence, and you have to find your balls to fight it and win.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T13:24:20+00:00

I've been focusing on training myself to be able to Join the French foreign legion and do something with my life. Im tried of all this modern bullshit and IDGAF about trying to chase pussy, fuck em their nothing to me. TRP made me realize just how full of shit people are and now i have absolutely no doubts about leaving these people for good.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2015-06-15T14:03:19+00:00

You have to earn the title every day by making the right choices over and over again.

mkopec · 2015-06-15T15:14:06+00:00

Ive built things with my hands, like any real man does. I have thought myself that which I dont know, like a real man does.

And now Im passing these skills, knowledge, wisdom down to my two sons, like a real man does.

I dont think you have to fight in wars and face death to become a man. I think there is plenty of battles men go through in their lives to help shape them. And its how you deal with these battles and how you withstand the pain of life how you end up in the end.

NidStyles · 2015-06-15T15:21:38+00:00

I served in the military. Not sure what you guys are bitching about...

Nazrath2112 · 2015-06-15T16:14:59+00:00

What have I endured? (The Narn's in the video are in the anger phase, G'kar = GLO)

Abused as a child
Watched mother abused by step dad
Step dad committed suicide in our house
Finished HS
Joined the Army
Served and discharged with honor
Graduated from a trade school
Got a job at a video game company
Started as a temp, worked my way up to management
Never married, no kids
Promised my grandpa on his deathbed I would look after his wife after he passed away
Spend 2.5 years taking care of my grandma

In my life I have endured much more than the average person and It has given me a strength that not many others have. The rest has yet to be written.

leemanfor · 2015-06-15T17:10:39+00:00

fuck man...

I don't know what to say.

Sir_Shitlord_focker · 2015-06-15T17:18:53+00:00

"You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance"

I don't give two shits about my appearance, I have two styles, the suit (work) and the blue jeans (levis 501) with white t-shit, hoodie optional depending on weather.

In fact I find men who spend too much time on appearance to be distinctly effeminate and usually of weak character.

UnkleTBag · 2015-06-15T18:00:17+00:00

Ramble alert, these thoughts are not organized. I went to a lecture featuring architect Bryan McKay Lyons (something like that). One of the things he showed was a picture of two brothers working, one was handing a wrench to the other, but the brothers' positions within the photo bore a resemblance to that renaissance painting where God is reaching down to touch Adam's finger. That image has stuck with me ever since, and is first in line if I ever decide to get a tattoo. We don't keep our identity alive just by replicating genes, we do it by teaching our offspring the various ways we have mastered making nature our bitch. I come from amateur airplane builders, so I developed a wide range of skills as a kid, but since my dad didn't master any particular area (welding, woodworking, etc) I have only basic experience in these areas. It is my job to develop these further so that my offspring has better genes and better software than me. That wrench being passed is the sum total of the electrical signals in my brain. THAT is earning manhood. That wrench gets better and better until I die. It will never be perfect, but the prioritization of developing that wrench is what I consider the prerequisite for earning manhood. There is no event that you go through that makes you a man, since then you could just coast and still be technically a man. You must earn manhood every day. Some days you don't, but you get to try again the next day.

I think this is where I differ from many redpillers. There is a lot on here that is basically glorified hedonism. That is not using the full human capacity. To me, red pill is becoming the God in that renaissance painting and becoming worthy of handing that wrench.

bombilla42 · 2015-06-15T18:40:58+00:00

What did I do? I pay my fucking bills - ON TIME, EVERY TIME!

ogrethebuffoon · 2015-06-15T20:23:56+00:00

I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

These aren't what's missing. What's missing is a mission and a higher purpose that guides your daily actions and a set of values that you adhere to which brings fulfillment. It's progress towards a vision of the greatest version of yourself that brings happiness.

I will tell my grandchildren, if I have any, that I helped hundreds and thousands of people overcome their fears, create better lives for themselves faster than they thought possible, impact the world through awesome businesses, and transform into who they really wanted to be. That's what I do for people as a coach for entrepreneurs. I will have hundreds of great stories about the people's lives that changed as a result of working with me. These are better stories to tell than ones about when I climbed a mountain or whatever which I may do anyway.

If you don't have a career and a calling that fills you up like that, I suggest you get one. It doesn't have to be coaching, but it needs to have higher meaning and purpose for you. If you're just working for money and living for pussy, you've not really swallowed the pill that matters most.

It's not feats of physical prowess or number of hotties banged that makes a man, it's the willingness to do what's needed in the world and to act as though you had unlimited responsibility for the well-being of others.

In fact, stop thinking of yourself as a man so much. It's a limited identity. See yourself as a being with enormous value to create and incredible love to share.

S74RK · 2015-06-15T20:52:30+00:00

This is why I am committed to the path of entrepreneurship in my professional life.

I've already failed a few times since finishing college, learning valuable lessons along the way: how to hold and align a team together, how to know if a technology is ready to be commercialized, how to prep for investor meetings on no sleep.

Yes, I've been flat broke a few times. In fact after failing at my last company, I'm now recovering financially at a job that definitely pays less than my colleagues who went into i-banking or goog/face/soft or consulting. They're busy posting their material possessions on facebook, or getting engaged. I'm busy planning my next mission. You just spent 5K on a new deck at your wife's insistence? That's like 6 months of runway to chase your dreams, man.

Truthfully, I do it for the journey itself. There's no feeling in the world like being "switched on" for 12+ hours a day because you're so motivated in what you do. And since nobody will tell you how to run a business, you're always forced to think about what to do next. Forced to respond in real-time to a changing marketplace. No being passive and waiting for direction from others, because that's a surefire way to fail.

In the same way that being fed bluepill lies leads man to act in unnatural ways, I believe that not having autonomy, control, and responsibility of one's future does the same. It certainly doesn't cause you to grow and gain wisdom worthy of passing down. Would you rather have the grandfather that taught you about corporate culture, playing office politics, pleasing the boss, or would you want the grandfather who was a serial entrepreneur, had to conduct business in multiple countries with an adventure on every trip, was homeless while simultaneously partying with millionaires, and learned how to lead people to glory? I know which one I had, and which one I intend to be.

You weren't meant to have a boss. And if you're in North America, you live in a society where homeless people are literally overweight. You're not going to die if you try something and fail. What are you missing out on? Promotions? Growing up, I never understood the difference between having a 50K salary, 100K, 150K, or even 200K from a job you don't truly want. It's just a bigger house and more stuff. How many adventures happen inside your house? Probably not a lot, unless you're Hugh Hefner. And I'm pretty sure he didn't get to where he is by letting others direct him. In fact:

Working as a copywriter for Esquire, he left in January 1952 after being denied a $5 raise. In 1953, he mortgaged his furniture, generating a bank loan of $600, and raised $8,000 from 45 investors, including $1,000 from his mother to launch Playboy, which was initially going to be called Stag Party. The undated first issue, published in December 1953, featured Marilyn Monroe from her 1949 nude calendar shoot and sold over 50,000 copies.

In closing, I would strongly urge Red Pill men to consider entrepreneurship as a path in life. The world needs more of them anyways. As an added bonus, chicks can't get enough hearing about my adventures so far (and I'm not even a success yet). As a final note, I know many of you are gainfully employed already, actually killing it in your jobs, and aren't desperately in need of jumping ship to do something more fulfilling. But I also know that many more of you are not. And I'd wager that after some time, you might not be either. So know that a more fulfilling path does exist, and it may be your greatest opportunity to share your value with the world.

AFPJ · 2015-06-16T12:20:44+00:00

never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

What makes you think you were meant to? Danger and difficulty is being eradicated by technology. On the battlefield, even with all the NATO restrictions & treaties and shit, less and less people dying from other people - they're dying to technology. The only difference between civilian "soul" death and death in war from technology is how fast it happens.

warriors by birth, years of brutal exertion, bravery and commitment was the price

You see, before, we've had no choice but to fight, to labor, to undertake danger. If we did not, our town, society or village would fall. Our hind-brains understood this and forced us to proceed after having seen what happens to those who didn't make the same choice (excommunicated, shamed or outright killed. Deserting wasn't kindly looked upon)

Now, we have a choice. For the first time, we don't really HAVE to do those things - this is the result. Technological marvels have ripped our hearts out of the cozy illusion of choice, into the horrors of really having them.

We seek to defend or to gain. In an increasingly complex culture with a dizzying amount of abstraction to stop most via analysis paralysis, what to defend or seek to gain is more abstracted than ever. The people you see today result from abundance complacency as much as the complexity of society exceeding the average individual's mental capacity.

Hennez · 2015-06-16T14:20:13+00:00

What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

While I agree on the importance of asking oneself these questions I don't on the way they're phrased: "What would I tell my grandchildren?". The message is solid and I think the correct way to be asked should be "What would I tell MYSELF 30 years from now when I look back and critically analyze how MY LIFE was?".

Other than that I think you hit the point spot-on. This society now (from 50 or a bit more years back) is very different than what nature imposed on us. We no longer need to "survive" (facing great natural hardships), technology has made that almost irrelevant in day to day life and society has changed in order to account for that. The thing is: humans have not changed (or evolved) to account for that fact. Hence why a lot seems to be missing from our lives.

Nevertheless the fact you mention that there's no point of transition that has to be walked through in order to be considered a man is very real. Something is lacking in that sense. 2 of my 3 all-life-long best(male)friends have children now. One just a year after marrying and he cannot get by without help from his wife's family and the other just a year after reencountering a girl from our university (with a very misterious past) and he surely won't be able to provide for the three of them.

One (the latter) plays League of Legends like there's no tomorrow when he's not on his work schedule. The other doesn't really have almost time to play but when he can he does so.

I cannot but agree with the points made on this post.

rpscrote · 2015-06-16T18:30:47+00:00

In the upvoting fervor, remember "what have you done to deserve being called a man" is judged by your standards and no one else's. Hiking the Appalachian Trail may be one mans crowning achievement and another man's waste of a summer and they're both right

old_man_tom3 · 2015-06-16T22:08:29+00:00

A bar fight? mate, that's blue pill behaviour; means you can't control yourself however your general point has merit. Men are becoming Nietzche's last men, not for want of things to overcome and achieve but because of the inability to imagine what these things are.

[deleted] · 2015-06-25T19:30:39+00:00

"Our generation feel they should be rewarded for just for tidying their room or leaving the house, turning off the video games or going for a walk... Achievement unlocked - go back to sleep."

That was deep. I notice many of my friends do not have hobbies, they don't really do anything. Even their careers (or lack thereof) are paltry and non-interesting. I'm not sure we should care so much about what we tell our grandchildren we have done, however. I think if partying and earning money is all some men want out of their lives then good on them but I think that's a life unfulfilled.

I'm not sure really where I'm going with this post, but maybe I'd like to point out that our generation is so sad with respect to what is mentioned in this post that being a top 10% man isn't difficult.

The truth is:

You should have always been in shape

You should always have been well dressed and care about your appearance

You should have always been able to speak to the blonde in the coffee shop

Just these things alone, most men do not accomplish. As sad as it is, many men have never been complimented by an attractive woman (that isn't a relative/friend of their mother's). Many men have never gotten a woman's number while grocery shopping. Many men have never been in shape after they finished high school football.

Gentlemen, I'm not trying to say that the bar is so low such that anybody can be Top 10%. I'm trying to say that many men will never have it in them to make even the slight improvements necessary to be Top 10%. If you follow what is preached here and make a good faith effort to improve, anyone* could become a Top 10% man, given the competition.

*unless you were born hideous/mentally or physically handicapped

tyson2444 · 2015-08-18T00:17:29+00:00

This truly speaks to me, I've always wanted to enter the medical field for this reason. (not saying I plan to cure anything or become a neurosurgeon, but i'm sure whoever cured polio had something to say to his grandchildren)

breakingmad1 · 2015-06-15T10:43:43+00:00

You realise fight club is a parody of anarchy and is mocking that train of thought?

red_gerb · 2015-06-15T16:31:31+00:00

The question is Beta.

I don't have to DO anything to BE a man. I don't need validation.

I AM a man. therefore I-AM. it begins within, gents.

BlindNowhereMan · 2015-06-15T11:23:37+00:00

This post is idiotic. The OP has no idea what the joys of Fatherhood bring. Truth is of you done have kids the odds of anyone remembering you 5 years after you dead is close to nil. I generally agree with TRP but if there is one thing I hate about TRP is this notion of self gratification above all else. Because so many fathers choose to so nothing but play videos games doesn't make that the fatherhood gold standard.

There is so much you can do as a father, with you kid that has tremendous meaning..

So OP let me ask you, what was your great right of passage? You are a warrior you say, did you going the armed forced in an effort to better this world? If you are like most here, you talk of being a warior, but won't actually fight to defend anything, as that conflicts with your selfish values.

You are full of crap..

Ps: if you want to be selfish, that's fine, but don't go around flouting your supiriority.

FLFTW16 · 2015-06-15T08:33:18+00:00

One of the reasons why religion is so useful is because it provides a series of milestones complete with self-study, reflection (prayer, meditation), and public ritual. Some people today think they don't need any religion, and that they are so much smarter and better than people who believe in silly little fairy tales. You aren't better or smarter than anyone. People raised sans religion just make some other thing their god--usually money. Without ritualized milestones they don't appreciate growing older and wiser, and they don't receive the joy of helping younger people grow and pass through the same milestones.

Becoming a cynical disbeliever was supposed to be the last step, when you realize that it was more about the process, the story that you believed in. Everything is backward and flipped upside down today, with people starting out as cynical non-believers, and then clutching at straws in a blind search for meaning and a belief-system. It's all fucked.

TheRealMouseRat · 2015-06-15T07:10:54+00:00

I've been chased by a bear, chased by a moose, done construction in the mountains, sailed >12 hours competitions in a tiny boat (while constantly hauling water out of the boat to avoid it sinking), benchpressed 220 punds (100kilos), saved people from suicide. I think I have done some "manly" things, and I keep learning and experiencing new things all the time.

But I can always be better. My experience is that when going trips with the guys is a good way of challenging yourself and seeing new things.

OilyB · 2015-06-15T07:43:40+00:00

I took a detour from a safe banking job to pursue my dream and I'm living it, been living it for 10 years now.

bowie747 · 2015-06-15T08:29:49+00:00

I've wondered through Berlin on acid from midnight to 9am in the snow with a girl I met at a bar, that's about my gnarliest story. On a serious note though, I completely agree that we have no cause. I'm fit, smart, mature, strong, successful enough with women and am financially stable so there's no problems there and yet I remain unsatisfied. There's a very real need to feel a part of something, but what? My current answer to that problem is to pour my soul into my work, I'm in medical research so by making that my life's ambition I'm hoping to be able to improve the lives of some people, and to impart some sort of purely positive impact on the world. I don't know if this will be enough but its what I'm going with for the foreseeable future.

Reanimate_87 · 2015-06-15T09:32:24+00:00

Blaming is always easier and can postpone pain - I sympathize the word postpone, it's a form of giving away power by saying that circumstances are responsible. Environment is something that has a big impact, notice how successful people are way more in their own reality? That's a choice really, having boundries is like a country with borders; your are your own customs while trading/sharing ideas, emotions and recources.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T10:32:15+00:00

I'd say even better, if someone else tells your story.

But apart from romantics, it is your shortcoming, your mistakes and failings not creating the life you wanted to lead. Sure we do not have a definitive goal or place, but who has? Life is meaningless, all is vanity.

This is why you should do whatever the fuck you want and not give a shit. Go forth and claim your victory over those dreams, and if not, fail with the force of a thousand comets colliding.

Realise you cannot have everything, and seek what you really wish for. What helped me, personally is making an "Achievement List", not for recognition, not for others, but for my own sake. These are goals, skills to achieve, things to do, stuff to get. Write them down, define them, fight for them. That is all.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T10:47:48+00:00

I want to dismantle common belief systems and receive death threats and honors.

KurrKurr · 2015-06-15T11:26:46+00:00

Hope a little lighthearted response is ok:

I work with data and use Wolfram|Alpha sometimes, so I thought I might ask the great Wolfram brain:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...

Well, I don't think it knows either...

WolfofRainbows · 2015-06-15T13:31:30+00:00

I just always kept my word and didn't let people down. As great as that is, the way I knew I was becoming a man was when I would get constant firm hardshakes from war veterans and nods.

JetteAuLoinTRP · 2015-06-15T13:48:07+00:00

Now, what rite of passage would you set in place in our modern society ? Ideas ?

TheJollySatan · 2015-06-15T14:16:08+00:00

4 years military service, it isn't enough either, have to keep pushing boundaries.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T15:20:24+00:00

For me, its not about being called a man. I don't need anybody to validate me because I know who I am. I know I'm a man. I've overcome a lot of adversity - and I'm sure many of you have overcome a lot too. I didnt just have issues with women, I also had issues getting respect from other men. Now Ive fixed both. With time, I've become wiser and I have a better idea of what's really important. I wanted a career when I was younger. Then I just wanted a job. As long as I can pay for what I need, I'm good. That's less stress for me. And I don't feel the burden of having to impress women into sleeping with me - I can get it when I want. That's a peace of mind I'm glad I have.

Polaris382 · 2015-06-15T15:43:28+00:00

Dude, this is something Ive thought about quite a bit myself. Im 31...and I still just dont really feel like an adult. The closest thing to a R'ites of passage" for me would have probably been the Navy...and while it sucked it was hardly a significant "rite of passage" type event.

Merica911 · 2015-06-15T16:00:21+00:00

It doesn't make him more of a man because his wife forgot to take her birth control pills. She was probably off it from some time because they probably haven't been fucking. They're tons of warriors out there that doesn't have kids. Also, there's tons of spineless boys out there with kids. It really boils down, if everything was together to get a girl pregnant.

A male is what you are, a man is what you become. Not ever male is a man. Getting a chick pregnant is like breathing air, easy as Apple pie. Now it's what happens the 18 years after that's going to define him.

Stythe · 2015-06-15T16:01:22+00:00

Accurate. Most of us coast through life with little trouble, surrounded by safety nets of family and friends telling us we're perfect and to never change.

I've spent almost a decade looking for what I was missing, only to come to the conclusion that it was lack of accomplishment. It's no wonder people turn to drugs, become elitist assholes in their cliques or sit in misery. Most people don't even appreciate a hard days work. They lack the understanding of accomplishment it brings.

I genuinely believe this culture of depression, or the therapy culture we live in in the west stems from this and, sadly, with no real comparison to force people to understand these deeper truths, we're hooking up with our ego's way too much.

I just hope neuroscience can show us what the brain needs and we can manufacture our own growthspurts in our lives and create a great world. Look unlikely right now, but maybe one day.

ShanksNes · 2015-06-15T16:33:22+00:00

I disagree with some parts and agree with others.

You are entitled to be a man, cause you have a dick and two balls below them. If we here at red pill start preaching others to look up to other people's standards and expectations, then what's the difference between us and the feminine imperative. Part of being a man is to make up your own mind. I don't need to be a good grandfather, a good father or anything. Let me make myself happy and content and then i'll start thinking about others. I make my own rules and have my own goals to achieve. Whether that is being a great grandfather of proud kids or a single conqueror of mountain peaks or a solitary mathematician trying to solve the Riemann's hypothesis is entirely my decision.

However asking questions like what our grandchildren will think of us, or even, what we would think about ourselves when we die is a great way of clearing all clutter and doing away with all bullshit in life. I highly recommend it. But make sure to ask your own question, for everybody is different.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T16:52:52+00:00

what will you have done?

You should be asking yourself this every day. Self improvement is key.

king-schultz · 2015-06-15T17:11:45+00:00

This, to me, is what TRP should be about. I believe in TRP, but I hate the constant focus on trying to get over on "bitches". Most of the time TRP seems to be targeted towards teenagers trying out PUA bullshit, or stupid FR's of how the OP is bragging about being so "Alpha".

bobjoe177 · 2015-06-15T17:21:33+00:00

I think that this example applies moreso to urban centres than rural areas (I realize that most people live in some kind of urban sprawl). There are still pockets of masculinity alive and well in less densely populated areas. I'm gonna tell my kids how I planted over a million trees by hand over the course of a decade.

mfigueiredo · 2015-06-15T18:31:13+00:00

Although nice pats on the back, the top comments don't answer the question.

Philhelm · 2015-06-15T19:09:42+00:00

I was deployed to Iraq in 2003. I don't think that makes one a man or an alpha, but I noticed that people seemed to view me differently afterward. One of my friends, a former history teacher, confided that he was kind of jealous that he wasn't a veteran. I've also had some guys come up to me and another friend with whom I was deployed and debase themselves by stating that they would be too scared to go over there. My wife is proud of my veteran status whereas I view it indifferently; it wasn't as though I did anything heroic.

I never fired a shot, and was transferred to a bridging company of all things (I was a combat engineer by MOS), but I guess I can say that I had experiences that most young men will never have, and perhaps that gives me an edge, or at the very least makes others think that I have an edge, which can be useful.

the_red_scimitar · 2015-06-15T19:11:12+00:00

First off, a healthy contingency here (perhaps a majority, I don't know) are not interested in marriage, or having children, and won't. So the entire assumption is based first on that one will have grandchildren. This is a perfectly solid, red-pill choice.

There are many types of legacies one can have. As OP pointed out, progeny is one. But really, I think the better question than "what will you tell your grandchildren" is this: What reason will people have to talk about you when you are gone? That can be "good" or "bad" reasons, but where I agree with OP is that you should have accomplishments that are worthy to be told.

themindiseverything0 · 2015-06-15T19:19:33+00:00

Wonderful points (and form).

IMO hardship does not equal manhood. As in, running from a bear or climbing mount everest only matters if it matters to you. IOWords, being a man is a matter of self-respect. We have no Agoge like the Spartans did nor do we have a collective religious ritualization (bahmitzvah) BUT we do have modern challenges of living in a society that seeks to repress us and encourage mediocrity. As long as we have the clarity to define our goals and pursue them with courage (not caring what others think), I think we all have our own rights of passage.

I don't think the goal should be to impress our kids but to impress ourselves. Who knows what the world will be like when they come into it and who knows if we will even be alive to raise them. The idea is to Not have kids until we feel like we are worthy enough, as personal as that may be. Again, great post.

DJVendetta · 2015-06-15T19:23:27+00:00

I'm honest and I stick to my principles.

Don't even fuckin' try to bend me in half for anything, I'm made out of Dwayne Johnson.

kragshot · 2015-06-15T19:25:50+00:00

Those are damn good questions to ask. Personally, it's a good thing that I have good answers to those questions, but it is only because my father himself, set things into my character and mind that made me want to seek out challenges and pursue my own greatness.

The good thing for everyone else here is that there are still mountains to climb, so to speak. There are still challenges that even the coddled generations of the present can aspire to.

And of all of these challenges, there is one that is among the most worthy; seek to become a man worthy of admiration by those men who have come before you and who stand by your side. Take the accomplishments of your fathers (literal or figurative) and build upon them to leave your own mark on the world. Do not be afraid to accompany your friends and go on that "big adventure." Take that road trip with your grand-dad or your running buddies and build your own legend.

Only the bold and the brave can go out and build a monument to themselves.

In the words of the British Special Air Service:

"(He) who dares, wins."

Dylan_Tnga · 2015-06-15T19:49:16+00:00

I have two kids, and more than enough stories to tell them when they get older because I DIDN'T stay with their mother and allow her to ruin my talents, passions, and friendships.... and trust me she tried.

The hardest thing was walking away from that, starting my life from scratch while paying 35% of my income to child support... I had nothing man, no furniture no TV... nothing but the clothes on my back and my keyboard.

Since then I've built and maintianed many positive experiences, I'm a passionate musician, I've been promoted to a high level job in credit card processing (which never would have happened if I didn't swallow the RP years ago and learn what it takes to be Alpha as fuck in the busienss environment and demand the respect I deserve) I also love physical activity, not a pro but I do many activities... and I get my kids to join in as well in things like soccer, baseball, etc.

I spend maybe 10% of the time I spend seeing my kids playing video games with them and 90% of it outdoors, or if it's a shitty day... reading with them.

I can say without a doubt that this would not be my life right now had I stayed BP and let my ex-wife complete her ritual of sucking out my soul, destroying all my passions and friendships, etc. Glad to be free, and so grateful to be a father to two wonderful boys.

ChadThundercockII · 2015-06-15T20:33:36+00:00

I ask myself this as much as the community here and find myself lacking. I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.

Do I smell a bucket list before my forties ?

Also, once you get a fit body and good money, everything else is possible.

pedler · 2015-06-15T20:34:27+00:00

This is what i keep saying, but peopl who havent experienced it dont understand it.

Stop livig in excess, stop buying a new tv and gaming computer or replacing your automobile and develop yourwelf personally. There was a post about going to india for 3 months. Fuck, go to russia for a few months. Go to africa and try not to die. It sounds like imagination but hese places are real, and the reality is most barriers to doig these things are mental. Excuses like....oh but i might get sick, or i might get kidnapped....yeah you might but you also might not!

capt-next-a-hoe · 2015-06-15T20:36:50+00:00

Wow! Thanks for this writeup.

I really need to rethink my priorities now.

TheSliceman · 2015-06-15T21:04:26+00:00

Ive been through more shit than you can imagine.

Lowest lows and highest highs. But really none of that matters. The only thing that matters is where you are at RIGHT NOW.

HDRed · 2015-06-15T21:15:25+00:00

I could point to my military service, me being a father of two and being an active part of there lives while being the sole breadwinner for the family, or my continued effort to be a good leader in the home and community but none of these feel right. I don't think there is a single thing that I can do that make me feel that I deserve being called a man, but it is the quest to be recognized as a good man, a worthy man that fulfills me.

capt_behindsight · 2015-06-15T21:56:52+00:00

I think the most important thing to tell your grandchildren is your legacy; what did you leave on this earth different than anyone? Did you write an award winning novel? Design a drug for treating MS? Restore vintage cars?

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T23:53:14+00:00

I've been thinking similar thoughts lately. The other day at the gym, I was constantly plagued by the one question: "what have I built lately?"

In the past year, I've paid off all my debts, had laser surgery to fix my eyes, and paid off my car. All this is less than a year, and in all the years prior I've never been so productive. (This is largely in thanks to the Red Pill.)

However, I constantly am reminded that I am not satisfied in the back of my mind. I look at what I've done so far and consistently ask myself if that is the depth of my ambition, if that's the best I can do. And time and again, I internally scream that no, I can do even better.

I'm gonna be 24 in six months. I can truly say 23 has been a big year thus far, but I look forward to what I'm going to accomplish by that point, and beyond.

VikingOverlorde · 2015-06-16T01:10:42+00:00

What will I tell my grandchildren? I lifted weights day to day and earned money, I partied and fucked girls? I was a wealthy ladies man? Is that it? By my own standards I don't deserve to raise children and settle down if that's my story to date.

I agree with a lot of things you say..but while you look down on them, your friends having kids now will probably have grandchildren while they are still a reasonable age. If you wait longer to do a bunch of cool shit before you have kids, you may end up too old for your grandkids to remember you.

moose_war · 2015-06-16T02:14:41+00:00

One of the biggest things I struggled with and still struggle with red pill wise is this idea that I will never be young again. let me explain.

Without getting too personal, from my teenage years until the end of college, i was focused on my passion. Let's just say my passion is not one that inherently makes money (though a lucky few do) and that I was doing it to do it- all or nothing.

But sometime in my last weeks of college, I realized something as I worked on a passion project. I had made no real friends in college, and by all accounts, I was still a social loser. A loner. I had actually had very little interest in my college years about running game and getting better with women, because I was genuinely happy to just jerk off. Because I lived for my passion, I really did.

But when this hit me at the end of college, I was 22 or 23 and I freaked out. I said "Oh my god, I only have one youth and I'm WASTING it by not trying to fuck every slut I can!" After that I lost all interest in my passion. It just died almost instantly and I became obsessed with living a "normal life". See, all of my peers and friends came from richer families, and so they all traveled, went to good schools, made great connections and friends and I didn't. I started isolating myself more because the more I thought about this, the more depressed I got. I started becoming obsessed with shallow shit like maximizing my looks, which is obviously a good thing- but I took it to an OCD level, staring at the mirror for long periods, working out just to look better, trying out really bad game at parties and trying to force a dark triad character when in reality, I was passing up tons of cute shy girls who weren't into that. But I had no way to gauge social interactions, and so I sunk deeper into depression for a while.

But after all this stuff I have been through, the forgotten years, the getting in shape, the improving my game- none of it matters in comparison to my original passion, which I regret losing focus on. It's still there in bits and pieces. I am still young. But...it's harder to get back into it. Because every time I try to buckle down, I think about how my precious youth is slipping away. I'm thinking every day closer to 30 is a chance for me to make money or game women and I have to do it all, I have to travel and act like a drunken idiot while it's still acceptable...before I become the 38 year old "creepy" guy trying to reclaim his lost youth.

But another, wiser part of me realizes this is all stupid bullshit. Life is one continuous line, and I should be focusing on my work, my passions. Because when I am 38, which will be more important? Living a unique, accomplished life where I at least reached for my dreams, or being a 38 year old guy who "fucked some hot chicks back in the day!"

At the end of the day, I think we have to remember fucking cute chicks is really not a big deal and no one will remember us in history for being a player.

scallhero · 2015-06-16T08:51:31+00:00

While I agree with your sentiment, it is my personal belief that we should be wary of idealization. Climbing a glacial wall doesn't make you a man; what makes you a man is the character required to climb that wall. I know it is paradoxical to make objective claims in a subjective world of different minds, but I think that you could just as effectively be a man by wishing to be a great father to your children.

[deleted] · 2015-06-16T15:25:00+00:00

Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honour - The Way of Men

should_ · 2015-06-16T15:32:12+00:00

Wars are rich people's games, and the more people that are realizing this, the less of a rite of passage that war or its cousins seem like. I think the new frontier is the inner landscape, as cliche and blue pill as that might sound. In terms of reaching family elder status, you can be the cool uncle/dad/granddad if you want, and if you do RP enough you will probably fall in line with that. But in our daily 'battles' in the office, at school, in the bedroom, the ones that endure and the ones that don't are differentiated by having a differing intensity of an inner spark or light that we're just beginning to tap into with meditation, eating right, sleeping right, and even working out. There are very few but memorable individuals who can look at you and you realize that they've activated parts of themselves that most people never access. It takes strength of will to attain and hardship to want it. It's alpha without the bells and whistles: low cortisol, discipline, positive emotion, charisma when necessary, centeredness, stillness.

Transmigratory · 2015-06-16T23:29:40+00:00

Obviously the following doesn't talk about being a man in the biological/literal sense.

Personally I ignore anyone who calls me a man (or anything else).

I'm a man when I consider myself a man. As far as I'm concerned, from everyone else it is just lip service. The objective view of what makes a "man" is up to each person's subjective opinions. People who adore you/need you will readily call you a man, whereas people who despise you will readily try to say you're not a man.

Tbh, if you need someone/people to let you know you're a man... you're not really a man.

[deleted] · 2015-06-18T03:43:35+00:00

This is something that the Unabomber mentioned in his manifesto. I forget the terminology he used, but it had to do with the huge divide between necessary actions (hunting, for instance), and unnecessary actions like discovering biology for the hell of it.

We will never be actualized unless we actively go back to those primitive roots. But going back to those roots will make us learn why the hell we created medicine and society in the first place. Shit was hard, but now shit's too easy.

Anletifer · 2015-09-07T02:57:03+00:00

Nobodies stopping you man, go travel see the fucking world. I have a 50 or 60 year old Uncle who just climbed a mountain in Africa. Go to the nearest bar and start a fight if that'll make you happy. You make it sound like in the past these things were commonly done, you can do them just as easily now if you stop making fucking excuses.

[deleted] · 2015-11-24T18:53:52+00:00

What will you tell your grandchildren - what will you have done?

Made you. You ungrateful little shit. Now get off my lap.

Kalepsis · 2015-06-15T08:32:04+00:00

Well, Sonny, back in my day we joined the Marines, went to Iraq, and killed other men before they had a chance to blow us the fuck up with an old mortar shell wired to a clothes-dryer timer that they had stuffed into the dead body of a twelve-year-old boy and sat against a guardrail on the side of a road, waiting for us to drive by in our convoy.

I fucking hated that shithole of a country, but it did help me grow up fast.

RXRob · 2015-06-15T08:01:22+00:00

Whilst watching WWE last night there was a silence for the late Dusty Rhodes. That's when I realised how far I've come, and far I can still go.

If I die today, there's a small wrestling company who'll tribute me and a handful of young fans who'll cry.

I find it a little depressing that that's far more than most will ever achieve, but also uplifting that I'm on the right side of average.

It's time to keep building this legacy.

ThreeEyez · 2015-06-15T08:24:01+00:00

Getting back to the core of what makes us men and most importantly, human. Thats what TRP is all about. Great post.

Smokratez · 2015-06-15T10:29:21+00:00

I am teaching all the pussies in the world how to be man. I am nice to women. I saved people who wanted to kill themselves. What did you do?

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T10:47:38+00:00

Refused to betray my fiancee, even if I had a chance with a more beautiful girl. Left my country, my family and my friends at 35 to look for a better future in a country ruled by inbred pedophiles.

drummmergeorge · 2015-06-15T13:12:32+00:00

This sounds like a mid life crisis. Life isn't meant to be taken seriously.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T15:34:36+00:00

It's nice to see this sub evolving from just trying to teach losers how to get their dick wet. I've been down voted before in this sub for saying there is more to life than lifting weights and spinning plates. It looks like people are starting to get it. Build your own life, write your own story. I hope it's an exciting one.

whatgold · 2015-06-15T17:39:13+00:00

We do have a cause. Once it is learned the entire system collapses, thus it is hidden.

SilentAlpha · 2015-06-15T20:49:14+00:00

I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model, chased by a bear or been genuinely fearful for my life.<

What do any of these things have to do with giving someone a license to raise a family or dispense knowledge?

True wisdom is gained thru day to day life experience. Its the knowledge and instinct that's molded as the years go by. Many men who have lived and done some wild things and emulated 'great lives' have nothing of character or substance to show for it.

A man sets his own destiny and produces his own life. You cant measure a life until you're done with it.

This post, OP, seems 'pseudo red pill'. I wont discount what you're saying overall as bad. By no means. Live the life you want. But just realize that a mans true worth isn't judged by us or the 'world'. A man who worked in a factory for 40 years may have had countless effects on those around him as opposed to the Hemingway who appeared to live it to the fullest but was an empty shell, broken and bankrupt.

Don't fall into the greatest trick of all....idolatry.

Tailback · 2015-06-16T00:04:41+00:00

Well, in my case, I spent 4.5 years in the active Army followed by 15.5 years in the National Guard.

In my Father's case, the most Manly Alpha Red Pill stuff I ever saw was him at a Christmas Concert when I was in middle school.

Some dirtbag drug addled homeless person was in the audience. He started flipping shit to a 82nd Airborne Paratrooper Staff Sergeant (E-6) that was the Uncle of a girl in my class home on leave. The dirtbag didn't stop flipping shit for over an hour, and when it was over, while the crowd was spilling into the parking lot, the dirtbag pulled a screwdriver out and was threatening the Paratrooper. The Paratrooper pulled a tire iron out of his vehicle and stuff was gonna get ugly. My 5'7" 140lb Dad out of the hundreds of people, while the 6'4" Principal watched, got in between them and talked them both down. Nobody got hurt.

My pops was an awesome dude, but that's the number 1 time that sticks in my head after all these years.

TheRealMewt · 2015-06-15T06:18:52+00:00

As much as I hate to dash your hopes for all of us to have a story to tell to our loved ones when we're old and grey, let's be real here. The days of the rite of passage are over. The same things that you say make people manly like killing bears or conquering physical obstacles are not worth half as much as they were in more ancient eras. We have high powered guns to kill animals for no effort and we have state of the art equipment meant to help modern people reach similar heights akin to those of our ancestors.

You even say military service is a rite of passage. For every guy who gets sent off all over the world, racks up a kill count, and has an unbelievable story to tell, there are over ten more who sit behind a desk and don't amount to jack shit. Hell, I'm an aircraft maintenance in the US Air Force and I found myself in a situation where I could fire off some rounds behind enemy lines - hardly anybody in the Air Force can lay to that claim! The thing is, though, I fired from an aircraft using what essentially amounted to point and click. I think it's an unforgettable experience, but in the end it's not fighting a bear and living to tell about it.

The days of the rite of passage are over. As humans, we've evolved beyond it - not necessarily because we no longer have a need to prove our adulthood, but because the old methods of making a boy a man are simply no longer relevant. Why do we need to send a teenage boy into the woods to fend for himself and if that were done, what modern technology would be at his disposal to make it more of a cakewalk than a boy beginning his journey during the Spartan age? It's impractical and it doesn't really equip the modern boy to face the challenges of modern life.

RPmatrix · 2015-06-15T04:57:00+00:00

[deleted]

wolverstreets · 2015-06-15T14:07:27+00:00

Was born with a dick and balls then grew to adulthood.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T17:54:39+00:00

fuck you, you sound bitter as fuck

luciansolaris · 2015-06-15T21:20:53+00:00

[deleted]

[Praise KEK!](72279)

WhoizDanny · 2015-06-15T16:05:01+00:00

Exactly why I strive to do big things in my career and line of work. I love this post. This place has gotten a lot better recently.

[deleted] · 2015-06-16T14:53:17+00:00

"I've never walked a great Dune in the Sahara, climbed a glacial ice wall, been in a bar fight in Dublin or done a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model"

What's the point of walking a great dune in the Sahara or climbing a glacial ice wall if you don't have to?

All those rich douchebags climbing (or more like being pulled up by Sherpas) and polluting Everest with their countless oxygen tanks ain't accomplishing shit in my book. They're just attention-seeking posers. If you told them that they could climb Everest for FREE under the condition that they wouldn't be able to tell anybody about it, I bet that at least 90% of them would say FUCK THAT SHIT, MAN, RATHER PAY ME 100K AND GET THEM BRAGGING RIGHTS.

A bar fight in Dublin with some prole that could possibly leave you dead or disabled for the rest of your life? And for what? Great idea.

Doing a line of cocaine off a Tokyo model? What kind of achievement is that? Anybody who has 10-20k to spend can do that.

My point is if you're going to take risks in this day and age, make sure there's a goddamn reward at the end. And that's something to tell your grandchildren about--FUCKING THIS RIGGED GEFILTE FISH SYSTEM IN THE ASS AND SQUEEZING IT FOR ALL IT'S WORTH.

I'm living off the grid. I'm doing what I can. It's nothing to brag about to my grandchildren (which I do not and will never have) but at least I'm contributing as little as possible to this kosher pyramid of derivatives and funny money.

Sure, I'd love to be barebacking thousands of beautiful teenagers from Eastern Europe on my private island like Jeffrey Epstein, but I'm not a connected Jewish billionaire and I have to accept that.

If I was ambitious and brave and resourceful, I'd take serious risks in return for serious rewards or consequences. But I'm not. At least not right now. Right now I'm more or less content with what I've got. Right now the risk just isn't worth the reward, as I have something to lose, unless the score would be at least 7 digits. But how the fuck is a lonewolf like myself supposed to find and pull off a 7-digit score? Ain't happening.

Of course, if you haven't grown a pair of balls yet, if you can't sincerely call yourself a man because you feel like a pussy who's intimidated by women and other men, then by all means climb those glacial walls, get into those fights and fuck as many whores as possible. But once you grow a pair (as I already have), you'll find yourself looking at such undertakings from a different point of view.

ChiefReap · 2015-06-16T21:27:37+00:00

This is an attractive idea and we should be doing more exciting things with our lives. But not hipster ideas like climb sand dunes, glaciers, or go into the chinese forest for a month with no resources. Our ancestors slaved away so that their descendents could live better lives but us hipsters are gonna end up going back in search of adventure and get beheaded.

masnera · 2015-10-17T07:07:10+00:00

breed children with Truths (not necessarily RP truths) never get them vaccinated, self school with the most fundamental knowledge they need, have them eat healthy, mind proof them to the common pitfalls of today's time. Guide them, accordingly as they age, Nurture them by Nature, and if i can do that before i die... i think that's the answer to your question

cascadecombo · 2015-06-15T06:08:59+00:00

I was born with a penis, and despite my best efforts was able to reach the age of adulthood.

Thusly, and rightfully, making me worthy of the title of "man"

through_a_ways · 2015-06-15T07:14:06+00:00

Men today tend to be manchildren. It's simply inevitable, and not only a product of our culture, but our lack of true economic hardship as well.

circlhat · 2015-06-15T12:57:02+00:00

this is missing the point completely although brings up a important issues, when dealing with women you want internal validation, when dealing with jobs and people outside your circle you want external validation.

Believe me you don't need a purpose to get laid, your purpose should be accepting and loving yourself above all else.

Chinkibus · 2015-06-15T15:11:38+00:00

Something something Hemingway

jx234 · 2015-06-15T18:36:09+00:00

I was born with a penis and lived to the age of 18.

[deleted] · 2015-06-15T04:05:31+00:00

I've been less than a football field away from a tornado (F1 on the fujita scale).

blue_27 · 2015-06-15T09:11:27+00:00

Simple. Enlist, or get commissioned. And serve with honor.

Title	What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?
Author
Upvotes	1103
Comments	347
Date	15 June 2015 03:44 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	TheRedPill
Link	https://theredarchive.com/post/33653
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/39vjmv/what_did_you_ever_do_to_deserve_being_called_a_man/

What did you ever do to deserve being called a man?

Women act more entitled than men

Ugly feminist writes letter to her CEO whining about how she doesn't get paid a living wage for her entry level job, and deserves to be paid a living wage to "tweet funny things" for a living. Gets fired, and whines even more begging for handouts.

How to Stop Being Creepy and Needy

This Is Why You Need To Ignore His Text

TRP: A Healthy Dose of Cynicism