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50 Shades of Red - Wisdom for Men About Women

Reddit View
July 17, 2015

50 Maxims on the nature of women and man's relationship with her. Easy-to-read and broken down, I'll share the first 10 with you here:

IM MAXIM #1: “The tougher the men around her, the softer she is. The softer the men around her, the tougher she is. The toughest woman is the fatherless woman, for the fatherless woman seeks a surrogate by whoring herself.” [See here for more.]

IM MAXIM #2: “A woman never wants you to need her, only to want her. The moment your want becomes need – she no longer wants you.”

IM MAXIM #3: “Women’s love is admiration built upon respect. Women are drawn to men of experience and power. Man’s love is respect built upon desire. Men are drawn to women of innocence and vulnerability. When a woman no longer admires, and a man no longer sacrifices, love is lost. It is a delicate balance, for respect is lost when either fails in their capacity. Man sacrifices, woman admires, that is love.”

IM MAXIM #4: “Women love children how men love women.”

IM MAXIM #5: “The feminine wants a guardian and the masculine wants to guard. The problem is, neither can happen without trust. The sexes have never trusted each other much, but courtesy of feminism, they have never trusted each other less.”

IM MAXIM #6: “There is an immutable animosity between the sexes that serves as the conduit for all distrust. This animosity flows from the inability of the sexes to reconcile their fundamentally opposed sexual strategies. For a man’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the woman’s must suffer. For a woman’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the man’s must suffer. Each sex is determined not to suffer, and so both inflict suffering on the other in a perverse determination not to suffer themselves. This is the battle of the sexes. This is reproductive war.”

IM MAXIM #7: “The sexes desire to trust one another, but they wish to actualise their sexual imperatives far more. As such, trust is predicated on the degree of one’s control far more than it is any sense of blind loyalty.”

IM MAXIM #8: “Women are followers, not leaders. They follow trends, status and power, not a sense of innate loyalty.”

IM MAXIM #9: “The average man is ignorant and misled. His mental construct of women is far greater than anything the typical woman aspires to. This is not his fault, his biology deceives him, society lies and so the deck of deception is stacked. Nevertheless, the reality remains.”

IM MAXIM #10: “You conflate her beauty with good character. These things are distinct, but mesmerised by beauty, you think they are identical.”

If you want the rest:


Post Information
Title 50 Shades of Red - Wisdom for Men About Women
Author IllimitableMan
Upvotes 681
Comments 209
Date 17 July 2015 05:47 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Original Link
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Red Pill terms found in post:
the red pillfeminism

[–]Soriq104 points105 points  (22 children) | Copy

IM MAXIM #6: “There is an immutable animosity between the sexes that serves as the conduit for all distrust. This animosity flows from the inability of the sexes to reconcile their fundamentally opposed sexual strategies. For a man’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the woman’s must suffer. For a woman’s optimal sexual strategy to thrive, the man’s must suffer. Each sex is determined not to suffer, and so both inflict suffering on the other in a perverse determination not to suffer themselves. This is the battle of the sexes. This is reproductive war.”

I feel like I'm reading the beginning of the book of Genesis

[–]fuckin_retard 58 points58 points [recovered] | Copy

This is true though.

A girl wanted me to settle down and have a family with her. If I would have given in, she would have been happy as a lark, and I would have been miserable, because I know that I have options that I can still be capitalizing on. I cut things off and she's miserable. and I'm happy. Its a fucked up world.

Patrice O'Neal said in one of his standup bits: "I don't want to want to be with other women. Ever. Like I just want to walk down the street, and go 'I never need to look at another woman again, because I'm with the last woman I'm ever gonna be with', and I'm like... but it aint real, its just... (disappointed face)."

[–]stayunplugdmyfriends 42 points42 points [recovered] | Copy

If I would have given in, she would have been happy as a lark, and I would have been miserable...I cut things off and she's miserable. and I'm happy. Its a fucked up world.

Man, this hit me deep in the feels. This is what I'm experiencing. I don't like swallowing this pill. But it's going down, and it makes me upset. I don't like this reality. I want that nice Disney ending as gay as it sounds. But I want love. I want a woman to love me like I love her.

Knowing that that will never happen makes me feel better about plating girls as unethical as it feels, but such is life. I must move forward.

[–]Soriq36 points37 points  (13 children) | Copy

Ask yourself though, why does plating feel unethical?

Are you losing your hard on, yearning for plate #1 and feeling pangs of guilt when you're balls deep in plate #2? Of course the fuck not.

Thinking plating is unethical is more societal horseshit. Your plates probably have plates of their own.

As long as you're honest, it's completely ethical.

[–]TheDialecticParadox14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

Women are masters of balancing plates - to the point their plates eventually leave her hands and get pulled into the gravitational field of the hamster wheel's G-force and begin orbit. No effort required.

TRP allows us to catch up and develop those skills that have been used against us our whole lives. Nothing more Red-Pill than a guy treating a girl like a girl treats a beta.

Also; relevant

[–]Danedina5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I feel like we don't use the term "escape velocity" enough around here.

[–]stayunplugdmyfriends 9 points9 points [recovered] | Copy

It's something I need to reflect on more, but thank you for bringing up societal expectations because that obviously plays a huge role in ethics of the whole picture.

I guess, I just feel bad for them. But why should I if they probably have plates too?

I can only work towards being so alpha that they don't want their plates.

[–]rpscrote4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are mismanaging expectations if you feel bad.

Be more up front: 1) I am not looking for a relationship 2) if you are looking for a relationship, leave now

Some girls will leave but those are the ones that would have gotten it worst. The girls that stay had fair warning.

[–]Lhtfoot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, but even spinning plates gets old. Eventually, you are going to want a good LTR, if there is such a thing.

[–]BadinBoarder1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As long as you're honest, it's completely ethical.

This exactly, many of my plates don't mind when I'm honest with them. They just want sex or enjoying hanging out with me. They have plates of their own. So the main thing they worry about is to wear a condom.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

"Are you losing your hard on, yearning for plate #1 and feeling pangs of guilt when you're balls deep in plate #2? Of course the fuck not."

I've never been in a proper monogamous relationship, but yeah, I still feel those things sometimes. It sucks. I often have "favorites" I guess. The thing I desire more than anything in the world is to find a single woman worthy of my love that could actually be devoted to me for life...


[–]Soriq0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

The word favorites being plural.

We all want a unicorn but lets be honest, we have a natural appetite for variety when it comes to sex

[–]SilentForTooLong1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't actually. I just used the word improperly.

When there is a certain woman I am particularly enamoured with, my natural instinct is to just be with her, and only her.

I literally have to fight the instinct constantly, and lie to her about wanting to not be monogamous, force myself to talk to other women, etc... it sucks.

I hate being wired this way.

[–]FallingSnowAngel-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

So why pretend to be something you're not? So you won't get hurt?

There are never any guarantees...

You're listening to the wisdom of scared children pretending to hack the human mind by studying a few pick up scenes, while completely missing out on the experiences many happy people share together.

I mean, you do know the red pill is just a roleplaying fantasy, don't you? Try looking at what it's been failing to observe.

[–]rpscrote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The thing I desire more than anything in the world is to find a single woman worthy of my love that could actually be devoted to me for life...

this is still the blue pill (and it seems you understand that), but as you adjust, the only bet you can safely take is to become the kind of man that women would devote themselves to.

[–]I_TRY_TO_BE_POSITIVE2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

We are very similar. I don't plate on ethical grounds. This is completely one-sided as women routinely plate men, but that doesn't mean I want to take part. I also would like the same love I feel for my SO to be returned. I too was bummed to learn that this is not a likely thing.

It's okay man. After a while you get used to it, you stop worrying about it, and it loses power over you.

[–]stayunplugdmyfriends 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

It's beginning to set it, and while it makes me angry, it fuels my ambition to master my body and mind (monk-like) and focus on my career.

I reflected today en route to my weight room. I hooked up with a girl on the beach last night. It meant nothing. If I had fucked her, would anything have changed?

Maybe a story to tell the boys, maybe a good feeling all night. But I woke up alone, lonely, tired, but ready to work my EMS shift this morning.

"Everything felt the same. It was so strange." No matter if I get pussy or not, I can only hope that unicorn brings herself into my life one day.

On a similar note, I'll be posting to asktrp later today in regards to a Alpha Provider Hybrid. I don't read much into LTR stuff, but I'd like to know if women can "love" their alpha counter part as they would a beta bucks provider, but the male remaining entirely in the abundance mentality, at the same time being there for their woman.

[–]-Awake-2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read rollo's "Myth of the good man" post, he addresses this issue best

[–]skoobled2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

We're social mammals. But only because living in a social group is generally a better survival strategy than going it alone

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel like I'm reading the beginning of the book of Genesis

What do you mean by that exactly? How does this remind you of the Book of Genesis?

[–]Endorsed ContributorScholarInRed152 points153 points  (16 children) | Copy

Another top quality post, great work. I'll head to the blog in just a second.

“A woman never wants you to need her, only to want her. The moment your want becomes need – she no longer wants you.”

This. In one of the last conversations I had with my exgf (before finding TRP) we were in bed when she asked what I'd do if she disappeared. I unwittingly gave a RP response;

"Oh man, that'd be awful..." her ears perk up "... I mean, Tinder is so fucking buggy these days, it's a pain in the neck. Yeah, it'd really put a dent in my week."

They say porn gives unrealistic expectations of women's sexualities... but only if you're not saying/doing the right things. I never knew she could suck dick like that.

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (2 children) | Copy

They say porn gives unrealistic expectations of women's sexualities... but only if you're not saying/doing the right things. I never knew she could suck dick like that.

Agreed. This is a cop-out. The more of a beta-provider you show, the less threesomes, anal, and sex tapes of your own to have.

[–]Jswiizle1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not necessarily sexuality, but looks in general

[–]BadinBoarder-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Very true, once a girl starts liking me, she is alot less likely to try things in bed. She's afraid she'd get jealous.

If they don't care about you emotional, they will do whatever you want sexually

[–]alanthemanofchicago18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Funny, I pulled nearly the same thing (Even before I found TRP, I was always heavy on the sarcasm/snark)

"What would happen if I left?"

"Oy, that'd be a pain in the ass. Lug all your shit to the curb, and my local bar's closed for construction, I couldn't even grab a beer after! Suppose I'd go fishing, catch some dinner."

[–]randomuserwot10 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy

If you can't give good head, you're either incredibly inexperienced (unlikely in today's world) or retarded as fuck. It isn't hard.

[–]Endorsed ContributorScholarInRed59 points60 points  (3 children) | Copy

Enthusiasm is everything. Give me a virgin whose only wish in that moment is to please me over a seasoned cocksucker any day. She herself had very little experience before me and it showed - it made it easier to shape her skills to my preferences.

With enthusiasm and the opportunity to tell her what to do, she'll be giving some of the best head you've ever had in a matter of weeks. Of course that level of inexperience is quite rare these days. I didn't realise it at the time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorTheRedPilsner51 points52 points  (0 children) | Copy

Enthusiasm is everything.

Not just when it comes to sex either. A reason men find 21 year old women more attractive than 35 year old women isn't just because the younger woman's body has less sags and wrinkles than the older woman's, it also has to do with attitude. Older women tend to be more jaded and bitter, while younger women tend to be more enthusiastic and innocent. If you're in an LTR with a 21 year old and you meet up with her after not seeing her for a week, she'll be genuinely happy to see you and spend the rest of the night treating you like a king. If you're in a LTR with a 35 year old and you meet up with her after a week-long absence, once the initial pleasantries are over she'll launch into a tirade about her coworker that she doesn't like. Simply put, younger women are usually just more enjoyable to be around than older women.

[–]momomotorboat18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy

Enthusiasm is everything.

This. I've myself said if I had to choose between eagerness or experience, I'd choose the eager dame.

[–]Grifter320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Enthusiasm is exactly it. I met a chick off tinder a few days ago who absolutely worships the cock. If you find a girl that loves getting fucked in the throat you better plate the shit out of her. Ducking this girl was like being in a porn.

[–]BallisticTherapy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or she's broken and fucked up her talent with binge drinking hard liquor and the gastro/esophageal problems that generates.

My ex used to have no gag reflex and be able to deep-throat like a champ. By the time I dumped her, she developed a hypersensitive gag reflex to the point where brushing her teeth in the morning would gag her and she couldn't even do a mediocre job at giving head.

[–]zaiguy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hahaha, love the ending. Was NOT expecting that!

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Idk what porn is giving the unrealistic version, but I've never noticed any difference between women in porn, and women in real life...well, except that the orgasms seem way more intense for women in real life.

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Every day, something must die in order for me to survive."

Bill Burr

[–]let_terror_reign37 points38 points  (10 children) | Copy

“Cultures have always had a preferred sex. In some eras, men are celebrated; in others, it is women. There is no equality in prosperous cultures, only a cooperation where one sex recognises the superiority of the other. To realise which culture you live in, ask yourself who it is more acceptable to criticise. The sex it is least acceptable to criticise is that culture’s preferred sex.”

To see who you are truly ruled by, ask yourself who you are not allowed to criticise. This is a fantastic insight, and this corollary of IM's is essential understanding for anyone who wants to understand how politics is played out.
Not a fan of the previous work, but I love this.

[–]CD_Johanna15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy

To see who you are truly ruled by, ask yourself who you are not allowed to criticise.

It's the Jews, isn't it? In the US, we are not able to criticize or otherwise say anything negative about a Jew.

I remember being a little boy and being told by my mother to never say anything bad about a Jew because they control everything.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not specifically jews - any race related comments are not acceptable, even if they are logically true or harmless or irrelevant.

[–]HonestMaskProprietor2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy

This is the only point out of the list I couldn't immediately accept off hand from personal experience, I am rather ambivalent on this one. Can anyone expound on it and talk me over?

[–]TheShadowStorm18 points19 points  (3 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]SilentForTooLong4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

The problem with this is that we often insult the wealthy...

But it really seems like they rule over us, doesn't it? lol

[–]night-addict1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I think it's better to say "To learn the favorite subject of those who rule over you..." But that does not have the same ring.

[–]rpscrote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Money is power. But thought policing is power in its own right. Voltaire is talking to the power of thought policing

[–]let_terror_reign14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

So in the USA, for eg., look at all the open talk about manspreading, mansplaining, etc. The number of people who can boldly talk against women is reducing fast as feminism takes over the states. Talk against men( think Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin. etc. as caricatures) is approved and is a common topic of discussion for all wives who meet; making fun of men, etc.
How much can you say against women? Would you dare talk about how women are so fucking annoying with their tantrums and tears and dumb drama? No, because you'd be attacked by the feels brigade outside work and fired for harassment at work. They're slowly tightening the noose on what we can and can't say.
In Africa or South Asia(subcontinent) you dare not speak against the men. That's exactly the opposite of what we have here.

[–]Soriq16 points17 points  (44 children) | Copy

Although I already knew it, Maxim 35 cuts deep. It's a big part of why I spin plates and can't commit (besides the fact that commitment is fucking retarded).

Can't explain it to them either because it makes you look like a little bitch. Much more effective to say bullshit like "I'm waiting for the right girl, when it feels right, it's right". Oh well, such is life

[–]the_number_275 points76 points  (29 children) | Copy

IM MAXIM #35: “Men remember being boys. Man has a lucid perspective in comparing the diminished affection of his adulthood to the greater bounty of his childhood. Women do not experience such a significant loss of affection. As such, man is forced to realise he will never again be loved so profusely, for the boy gets his fill, but man loves the most to be loved the least. The profundity of maternal love is longed for, but forever gone. A girlfriend cannot provide that and is loathed to do so should a weak man demand it. This is perhaps the bitterest of all the pills.”

Posted for context (save others the trouble of flipping back to the article).

[–]1jb_trp78 points79 points  (14 children) | Copy

Man, that hits so fucking deep. I remember my last girlfriend, right before we broke up. I was really hurting and I opened up myself to her and showed her my weakness, my vulnerability, just like society says. "She'll love me. She'll see my secret heart and depth of emotion, that I'm a real human being, and she'll love me and accept me with my imperfections."

She was gone by the end of the week.

And she was with the next guy the week after that.

Those were some dark days.

[–]Soriq24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a painful truth. We are not allowed to be truly vulnerable as we are when young.

True vulnerability shakes their sense of security with you and dries them up like the sahara.

Hypergamy unfortunately doesn't care.

[–]RP_Vergil8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

It happened to me too. It wasn't until I found TRP do I learn that exposing my weakness as a way to show how much I trust her and love her is the final nail in the coffin.

Elysium is a Lie.

[–]Username-_-201512 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Sorry bro, had something similar happen to me. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!

[–]philovivero1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Like Polio! And muscular dystrophy!

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Meh. What doesn't kill you, fucking hurts like hell.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Hits home. Reality doesn't change based on your perceptions; reality is reality, and your perceptions are merely your perceptions. Unicorns don't exist. I feel you man, I learned the hard way, just like you.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thirded. Us guys are just expendable, unfeeling machines that don't deserve empathy... right?

[–]ScottRikkard3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, but try to be anything except'll get fucked over.

[–]reigorius3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Happened to me. 11 years and my ex spread her legs within days of her new crush. She just jumped ships.

Currently rebuilding and refitting this former wrack, while never ever letting a woman on board again. Yes, she may attach her lines. But that is as far as I allow a woman to get close.

[–]1jb_trp2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I feel you, man. I'm having fun, I've fucked more women this year than the previous ten combined, but not looking for a pain in the ass girlfriend. Maybe a LTR with the right woman, but I'll always have one foot out the door and will leave in a minutes notice if she goes AWALT.

[–]Masonjarteadrinker23 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha sorry bro, that shit had me cracking up even though I was already expecting that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same here, except that she cheated on her new guy with me to make me think I still had a chance. I knew she had already done that with her previous boyfriend. She told me what happened : she made fun of him in front of everyone. I didn't chase her.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Just become more attractive and figure out how to spin shit the right way.

I've been getting laid by being vulnerable for about a decade.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, oddly enough it's not a working against me when I open up. I still fuck them. But I do got the feeling that showing my former beta omega life ain't working for me for LTR.

[–]Kill_Your_Ego45 points46 points  (11 children) | Copy

That infamous comment on the rational male blog is what really hits hard for me.

"We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to."

[–]ScottRikkard17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy

True. As soon as you show feelings or real deep care. They get scared.

I had a talk with a feminist girl I know, I told her - women are inside like men appear from the outside (cold and calculated), while men are inside - like women appear on the outside (gentle, wanting to be safe - searching for that love we grew out of).

She got all bothered and started almost yelling - You are SO wrong SO wrong. I just smiled - ''the fact you're telling me I am wrong is the greatest testament to my rightness.''

I swear it's like a fucking conspiracy theory with them. All act stupid and try to make you go down the wrong path...

[–]SilentForTooLong5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

It bothers me more than maybe anything else that the image and the reality are reversed like this...

How did women get the image of being kind, caring and gentle, while being ruthlessly, calculated and cold?

[–]ScottRikkard12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well, first - we live in times when women's real nature is considered a forbidden subject. Ancients knew well about women. And women had their true place in society. How deep do you have to read into the Bible to see women laid out before your eyes? How many stories from the ancient world depict women as a bringer of destruction and chaos? I strongly suggest reading Gilgamesh bdw.

Young men then didn't had to go trough divorce rape and drunken reddit surfing to find the truth. They were educated. They saw trp being used everywhere. Being a man was not shamed, nor medicated. It was celebrated.

Second - women are all good sellers, they are expert in selling themselves, they have most of us convinced we need them despite men being superior gender in every possible thing, including the realm of emotions, which is traditionally considered women's ground. Don't even think about cooking etc. World left only to women would rot. World left only to men would be much better of (after initial few years of establishing hierarchy). But both options so far have no future, cause we need each other if anything - for the purpose of procreation.

Third - we all tend to take things at their face value, so when women appear kind and honest, we tend to believe it. (it helps that they are great actors)

Seeing them who they really are is sad. From my perspective they make themselves pathetic creatures. I know some of them are ''good'' - but only because I dont have anything close to relationship with them. The kind cashier, the smiling waitress, the professor that wants to help. All their smiles and cuteness is no longer taken as is. I see only strategies and calculations and coldness. (for a player - that is good, but for me, having put quality over quantity,,, not so much) Especially if you know a women well and see her trying to charm other guys who take her at face value, but you knowing her story, just shake your head. And to top that, they are all children. All of them. Even worse than children. It's not that we put them on the pedestal, it's that we put them on equal level with us. And that is our mistake.

I can't think of how many of women I met, who endeared me (long time ago, when I was naive) with their smart's and logic(!), only to become disappointed with the quickness they were willing to show in cheating on their bf's with me. I was mostly on the ''gaining'' side, but, really what do I gain having a woman like that around me?

I have endeavored on a journey of self development, to be truly GREAT, I want a queen, not a slut, not a reformed slut and certainly not a womenchild.

Where are the queens, where are great men and women? We live in an age of ''averageness'', fuck to live and live to fuck. Everything is so temporary, every deeds are merited depending on - is it ''vine'' worthy or not. Look at this silly generation, silly fucking times.

Why are games like Skyrim or shows like Vikings popular? The inner want of greatness is still somewhere even in the laziest fucking human.

For God's sake we need to put cameras in our homes to defend ourselves from their stupidity. Do I want that? Hell NO! But what's the other option?

Nowdays, expecting decency and honesty is already ''putting on a pedestal''. With these three requirements from a women, you can become gay - honesty, self control and beauty (+prime age).

Because all three dont come together in a women. But I know many men who have them.

Look at the ideals of a modern young woman: Iggy? Miley? In my country a whore is singing her heart out and young women follow religiously.

Where are the ideals worth following? I believe women can be greater than they are, but they lack that drive for greatness we have. Even in this world lacking in celebration of masculine, we want to improve ourselves and reject false idols - men feminists etc.. But women just drink whatever any whore with a smile shoves down their throats. Women made women like this. And it's sad, sad sight to see. And I want none of it.

[–]skoobled6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

The cuts right to the heart of the particular tragedy of being male. Women have their own, of course, but they'll never appreciate ours, as we can't theirs

[–]SilentForTooLong-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

What tragedy do women experience? lol

Outside of the few that get brutally murdered by serial killers that do nothing more than give them a brief taste of what it's like to be male before ending their existence... other than that, what the hell is there?

[–]skoobled4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well in primitive societies they had a shit load to be afraid of: expelled from the social group and they'd almost certainly be eaten alive in the wild. Nowadays more likely pumped, dumped and left holding the baby. However neither is a real risk in modern societies

[–]SilentForTooLong4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Pumped, dumped, and holding a baby = impossible in the USA. So... zero risk whatsoever then?

[–]skoobled1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I dunno... Perhaps? Or maybe the tragedy of that they'll never be truly satisfied with a man because they want mutually exclusive qualities in the same man (af/BB)?

Also, I think that the female capacity for pleasure is higher than a man's, but their capacity for peace and satisfaction (due to hypergamy) is much lower. Women are much more social (and socially reliant) than men, who are more able to be happy when solitary

Again, I think it's just as hard for a man to understand the existential challenge of being female as it is for a woman, so this is guess work

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Language should be possible to should be possible to list the challenges if they are real.

I don't see any objective challenges.

But I guess the only assumption possible to make is simply that they aren't human.

[–]SilentForTooLong2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Well, honestly, might as well just ride the cycles despite the crippling pain then. The periods where you can relax are worth it.

[–]EllenPaosBlackChild5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking hell...Wow. That. That was some wicked shit to read.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn that hurts. This, right here, is the one thing I wish I didn't have to know.

[–]Primemale7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy

Why is commitment ''fucking retarded''? I personally don't want too either, but I don't think its ''fucking retarded'' I'm just too self interested to want to share my life with a woman, but that's me, I'm well aware that other people may get a lot from it and perhaps one day I may want to also, even if it's just to ''get out of the game'' but still get sex on the regular and be around a woman, who will help keep your game up. (in all aspects)

[–]Soriq16 points17 points  (4 children) | Copy

With commitment in this society, the female has everything to gain. You have everything to lose.

  1. Read OP's maxims on marriage.

  2. Don't believe in marriage, but want to live together? That may constitute "common law" marriage. See #1

  3. Hypergamy

  4. Briffault's Law

  5. Read Christopher Ryan's Sex at Dawn. It is not in the nature of either sex to be 100% monogamous

  6. Having a variety of women to fuck is in our nature, see #5

  7. Woman have a dualistic strategy. One man is either her beta or her alpha, but she wants both. Successfully managing an LTR is literally TRP on hard mode and requires you to perform both roles successfully, almost 100% of the time, or she will hamster up an excuse to find new cock faster than you can blink (#3,#4,#5)

[–]Primemale11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I agree with those, apart from number 7, your saying she wants a beta and alpha? I'm going to assume you mean AF/BB, I disagree anyway, she wants ALPHA BUCKS, which would have been the norm once upon a time, the alpha's would have been in control of beta men and therefore control of resources. At NO POINT does she WANT a beta, she will just do that to procure resources and then get some tingly alpha fucks on the side, but that is more her ''making the best of it'' as opposed to how she wants it, I think.

[–]Senior ContributorRedPope16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

Alpha and beta are broad generalizations. It is important to recognize that both offer traits women desire. Life isn't as simple as fucks vs bucks.

An alpha is strong, exciting, and protective. A beta is stable, supportive, and empathetic. In a long-term relationship, all of these traits are necessities. In a LTR, you must be the right man at the right time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRed_August4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, I suspect the beta provider role needed to be created at the dawn of civilisation, or neolithic. This behaviour change is more of a necessary adaptation by women. It isn't driven by hardwired arousal but rather by necessity. Prior to that, and for most of our human existence, the whole hunter-gatherer tribe provided the security that women needed. The Alpha lover was, and still is what arouses her. This isn't to say that no betas had sex but the gene record indicates that comparatively few men reproduced.

As civilisation evolved, her entourage shrank to the family only. It is likely this increasing isolation forced women to trade their only commodity (sex) for the additional security of a personal provider. There would be few Alphas available ready to commit long enough anyways. Interestingly, with the availability of work, government support, multiple levels of societal support, charities, and the easy availability of Betas if all should fail, women seem to be reverting back to their original programming with Betas now only useful in the much later post-reproductive years.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sex At Dawn is complete pseudo-science bullshit.

The authors are group-selectioninsts with a personal agenda. It's been proven many times that species don't behave for the benefit of the group but rather for making as many copies of themselves as possible. Read these links to clear up your head. Fucking social damage caused by Sex At Dawn is ridiculous...

[–]Username-_-20153 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

I think in the premise of today that so many laws favor women and divorce usually always favors women, and the fact that most people KNOW that the courts are geared towards women, everyone knows this, even the most bb knows that the court will rape you. The bb believes it won't happen to him because feelings and shit. The difference is that we know that if we commit it's a lose lose situation as things are structured now a days agains males, knowing that any red pill that knows about the stuff we know and commits is as he said fucking retarded.

[–]Primemale-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

I thought he was referring to commitment as an abstract concept, (in general) being ''fucking retarded'' which to me is an idiotic statement. You have basically only outlined ''marriage'' not commitment. I agree marriage is too raw a deal for men these days, well at least in America and most of the west, although from what I've read it's worst in America. I've forgot where I heard ''America is capitalism on steroids'' everything financially related is FUCKED UP in America. (healthcare and pharmaceuticals, media and advertisements etc, although I spose one could argue that it makes up for it by being an incredible powerhouse of spectacles, diversity and entertainment- but I don't think this makes up for it, personally)

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]Primemale1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

It is well documented that men's testosterone's levels decrease in an LTR/Commited relationship, (also when a man has has children-and hangs around that is) so that the man bonds with the Female and of course he will essentially become less ''alpha'' however he does not necessarily become completely beta either, that will depend on myriad factors, which I won't delve into.

Now with regards to your question, I think that as long as a man stays the way he was when the women met him (which is what she fell for) but with SOME emotional connection, being her rock (for her turbulent emotional states) and letting her know that you care for her BUT she knows you don't NEED her.

An ''alpha'' in the context of a relationship has his own life, which she is just a part of, an important part, but a part none the less, he has his own friends, business, hobbies, that she isn't necessarily a part of. Of course as I said above,alpha in the truest sense of the word, probably wouldn't be in an LTR, but it's possible to stay alpha in the context of your family quite easily I believe, if you are leading them and are the main provider.

I've also known of men that were typical alpha archetypes but their women left them because they were so absent and busy with business etc that there women actually went off them so it's a fine balance, but one that I don't think is actually that difficult to achieve.

I think that fucking women forever will eventually become somewhat tiresome, unless I literally am an old DON with a huge harem/rotation of women, lots of resources etc then It probably wouldn't be so bad. I think most of us are wired to commit (again from what i've observed) eventually, perhaps when we are more androgynous, or less highly sexed, if you will, we will be more likely to commit.

[–]SpawnQuixote0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I commit to my dogs. That's it. You can't be Alpha Bucks 100% of the time and if you're girl has any smv, she's gonna swing while you're trying to relax or re-charge.

It's better just to spin and stay commitment free so nobody ends up getting hurt. Dont hate the player, it's the game.

[–]newls15 points16 points  (13 children) | Copy

IM MAXIM #35: “Men remember being boys. Man has a lucid perspective in comparing the diminished affection of his adulthood to the greater bounty of his childhood. Women do not experience such a significant loss of affection. As such, man is forced to realise he will never again be loved so profusely, for the boy gets his fill, but man loves the most to be loved the least. The profundity of maternal love is longed for, but forever gone. A girlfriend cannot provide that and is loathed to do so should a weak man demand it. This is perhaps the bitterest of all the pills.”

This is very well put, and so sadly profound. As a man the only two creatures that will give you the type of love you want are your mother and your dog.

IM MAXIM #38: “Marriage is the only legal contract in existence that permits a person to violate contractual terms and then subsequently penalise the party who upheld said terms.”

Again, well put and very true.

[–]reigorius1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you're lucky you got it from your mom.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I should get a dog and be forever happy.

[–]theultimatewarriors0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nah, the lucky ones are the ones who didn't get it. We're taught how to seek our own love instead and learn the most important lesson of life before anyone else.

It's like learning how to beat the game and it's master boss on the first level and having an overpowered character the rest of the game. "Oh you don't love me? That's cool... Oh that was your only power that you brought to this relationship? I'm immune to that one. I'm gonna go have fun still."

My mom called me biggest mistake of her life because of one little argument. It hurt at the time, but taught me I was only loved by people if I was useful to them and after that I didn't care what people thought of me as long as I thought well of myself. You can't pay for that kind of education man.

[–]SilentForTooLong-3 points-2 points  (9 children) | Copy

Wtf? I don't know about this shit man...why aren't we all fucking our mothers and/or our dogs if this is true?

[–]mrmeyhemn1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

love and sex are not the same thing. moms and dogs are loyal but you don't fuck them, human women who aren't related are fair game for fucking, but don't dare think that they will ever love you the way your mom or your dog does.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Well man the fuck up and make moms and dogs fuckable then. It's nothing more than a whiny, emotional response to just say "that's wrong" if that's the only way to find true love.

[–]mrmeyhemn0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

you man up and start fucking dogs and your mom. personally i know what women are good for and keep them for that use, sex. dogs for unconditional love, women for conditional love (see:prostitution)/sex.

there is nothing whiny about that statement. the only whining i see here is you whining that men are giving their dogs higher status than women, as it should be.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Sex doesn't seem worth too much to me without even the loyalty of a dog.

[–]mrmeyhemn0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

to each his own. sexual release is a biological need for men, many of us prefer to have the release with a member of the opposite sex.

loyalty is a foreign word to women. the belief that women have the propensity to be loyal is ludicrous. if you need loyalty for sex then your only options are your mom or your dog. good luck with that.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Why don't they?...

Is it actually true that women always end relationships 100% of the time, and never get dumped?

[–]mrmeyhemn0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

you have been "notreadingfortoolong", hypergamy.

do they always end relationships? no. who ends a relationship has nothing to do with loyalty. is it your position that women who cheat and stay in a relationship amounts to loyalty? women want to move up, no matter how "good" their current mate is they will ALWAYS be looking for something better.. that is their nature, AWALT. me suspects that you may be a woman given your inability to comprehend this concept.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Cheating is the same as ending a relationship. Don't be a purposeful retard, it doesn't help your argument.

Please answer the question.

[–]Right_Eye 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy

IM MAXIM #27: “Women will not go backwards in commitment, men will not go backwards sexually.

This is the only maxim I don't quite understand. Would you mind explaining it a bit?

[–]Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

The way I see it is that women will only accept moving forward from fuckbuddy to committed relationship. She will not accept moving backwards from committed relationship to fuckbuddy unless she has no better option.

Men will only accept moving forward from getting no sex to having regular sex. Once a girl takes away the sex and expects to keep the man, the man will not accept it unless he has no better option.

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yea it's literally a Chris Rock bit. It's also ridiculous because plenty of women are willing to go from exclusive to being haremed for the right guy. You see it all the time. A guy dumps his girl and keeps her around as a side piece while seeing other people. Women would rather share a man they desire than give him up.

[–]Senior ContributorRedPope2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It is a maxim, it applies to most cases. If one partner has a SMV more than 2 points higher than the other, then yes, the lower person may tolerate a demotion. But this is not normal, people usually date at their own level.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

/u/Cant_Tell_Me_Nothin's explanation is pretty much bang on.

[–]BreezeDM 8 points8 points [recovered] | Copy

put these in a book with some explanation and an example or two and I'd buy it.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Could be viable if people want it badly enough. I was just going to add them "as is" to my "blog in book form" when that goes out.

[–]Subcommandante_Khan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I agree with the previous poster completely.

It is convenient and digestible to have these principles condensed into a list bumpersticker format. Marketing and packaging would be the biggest concern, obviously, but the brevity and content caught my attention and held it.

Although we all know the content is out there on the web, there is something about having all the information centralized into a single book and having it in your hands.

There's a lot of PUA independent publishing floating around, but I don't see very much on the evopsych angle that isn't crammed with so much text and jargon that it becomes a hassle to read.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm reading the Rationale Male, but Jesus fuck, every paragraph is littered with deftly words. I'm resorted to using a dictionary to actually understand what Rollo is saying. But he could have used less wordy words.

And he doesn't to sound intelligent or make the content more sound. In his interviews he uses everyday language and the message is so much clearer.

[–]De_LaMancha 8 points8 points [recovered] | Copy

Maxim #6 is what I have a hard time reconciling with. I have come to understand that at the end of the day, one sex ends up losing. I'm not spinning plates at the moment but when the time comes, I don't know how I will deal with the drama that a spun plate will create when she realizes she has lost. A spiteful girl is the last thing I want to deal with.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

If you're making a girl feel like she's lost then you're being a prick. Be honest and let her see and feel that getting any part of you is fantastic even if she doesn't get all of you. You want any girl you're with to be happy, not hurting.

[–]De_LaMancha 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Like I said, the last thing I want is for to feel like she has lost. But if you are a fantastic guy who gives her fantastic feelings there will come a time when she will want more. You can only keep things casual for so long before she starts getting that nagging feeling that she is being used. Tell her you don't want to be committed one too many times and she will feel like she has lost, specially if you are a great guy.

[–]SpawnQuixote4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Almost all the relationships I have been in have been on a timer. After 3 months you get the "us" talk. After 6 months, you get the move in speech. After 9 months, you get the "where is this headed" talk. After 1 year, you get an ultimatum with some wild ass kinky sex.

At any point you can pull the plug. I choose to pull early because I'm older and can go longer without giving a fuck. When I was younger, I got to the kinky sex stage and that was good but that is a bubble my friend and will burst.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What the fuck?... Man... those are some fast moving relationships, holy shit.

I've always been on an 18 month timer. Basically, it's just kind of wild sex and various drama for about 18 months. I usually tell them upfront now, and have won every bet I've made.

The sad thing is, I'd like it to be longer, but 18 months seems to be the hard limit for women to be involved in such things I guess.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm doing something different, my LTR last 7 months and are usually on the decline 2 months before that.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

IM MAXIM #42: “Women want to get married because, in the majority of circumstances, they have everything to gain and nothing to lose...

Only further encouraged by Disney and the rest of Hollywood with all the "happily ever after" themed productions.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

"happily ever after" themed productions.

Marriage is happily ever after... for the woman. She literally can't lose. You promise your future paycheck, and it's legally binding.

I'd be much happier with marriage if she was legally obliged, even after our separation, of providing twice weekly blowjobs ...under threat of legal consequences and imprisonment for non compliance. For the rest of her life. Manimony I'm calling it.

[–]SunShoe8825 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excellent article, IM. As I read this, I realized something. I have meet women who did not fit these maxims, however they were not women most would want to be with. Boring, fat, ugly, stuck in bad situations, they usually worked shit jobs and had a mundane future.

Make no mistake; I'm not contradicting your work. I'm drawing the conclusion that those who choose not to try their hand at the SMP seem to "lose" by default. On the other hand, the women who have attracted me (and gamed me the most in the past) all fit these. All of them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Seems to me that most of the stuff on trp primarily applies to females with high smv. No one is really all that concerned with low smv people. And, if a woman with low smv suddenly found that she had high smv (for whatever hypothetical) she would then AWALT.

[–]TheDarkTriad4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I love lists of red pill maxims. Thanks as always /u/IllimitableMan

[–]lizzardbwain2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

IM MAXIM #4: “Women love children how men love women.”

Is it possible, that biologically, these two things are genetically the same/close, just that they depend on different "people" ? It wouldn't be a first time something like that was reused

[–]nofences2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The "Hierarchy of Love" is absolutely brilliant. This is one of my favourite posts to this subreddit.

[–]10334210 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy

I didn't really enjoyed some of your most recent stuff /u/IllimitableMan .

But god damn this is a good one. Honestly, one of your best stuff.

[–]Primemale23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

He writes for no one in particular, therefore if you didn't like it, you should at least have the courtesy to explain why, otherwise it's useless information, or perhaps it was to set-up your compliment, in order to enhance just how good you thought it was. They may just not be of personal interest to you.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Quite right.

It's funny because some guys read only for the dark triad stuff and when I do posts like this they message me "When are you writing some more of that psychopath shit? We haven't had some psychopath shit in a while!"

Can't please everybody. So I don't try.

[–]WardlyHasted 7 points7 points [recovered] | Copy

This is some of your best stuff yet, which makes sense because it seems to be comprised of bits and pieces found throughout your other works.

I know you've been talking about writing a book for a while, but if you were to expand on each of these maxims (a couple hundred words each), '50 Shades of Red' would make quite the eBook. Could be a good way to test the waters for a future release as well.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Could actually be a good project and a great way to monetise a fraction of my writing.

Thing is, I have some more maxims that'd I'd like to include (probably in a follow-up article) but for the sake of the book and keeping it to 50 (so that the format would fall in line with the name) it would mean I'd have to merge all the marriage stuff together to free up some slots for what I consider to be more important maxims. This would, in my view, make the book more "complete."

EG: IM MAXIM #?? - Money is makeup for men.

Could be a good way to test the waters for a future release as well.

I'm inclined to agree.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Number two is fucking LTR GOLD.

treat your woman like a sex doll. And cook. And maid. And dont keep that a secret from her.

[–]myexile1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be sidebar material. It's like Patrice O Neal and a few other gurus' best maxims.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbalalasaurus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This should be sidebar material.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is, in my opinion, your best post on your blog. Saved it to instapaper so I can access it offline. Pure gold.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely goddamn fantastic.

Rivals Heartiste's maxims.

[–]MrLelvis1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post, succinct and wise insights.

Maxim #24 particularly resonated with me. Have seen it happen to others and myself, but never fully understood the idea behind it until now.

Thanks, IM.

[–]_TheEndGame1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read them all and they all made sense. Great read

[–]Bung_Eye1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fucking great stuff.

33 and 35 are perfect!

[–]sundaybrunch111 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is so Robert Green-esque. Ever thought of adding anecdotes or elaborations to each one like Laws of Power?

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If I do that I will go with another poster's suggestion and make it a book.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

6 is right on the money. As it is now, the relationship between a man and a woman is like the relationship between a pimp and his ho. The ho can't get pregnant because then the pussy isn't in sellable condition. The man can't be physically disabled because then he can't bring in the money. So the woman will leave and look for the next cash cow. It's really "her" money just like with pimps. The game is wrecked right now.

[–]Subcommandante_Khan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This was one of the best posts I've seen on this subreddit.


[–]night-addict1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maxim 24 just perfectly explained the reason for the only slap I have ever received in my life.

During my BP days I was in a turbulent relationship with a crazy girl. I was chasing and being submissive. I had a rare RP moment at one point, and soft-nexted her for a few days. The first thing she did when I saw her again was slap me in the face.

I instantly left. She spammed my phone with apologies. My mistake was taking her back after that, but I still think on that moment with pride; for one fleeting moment I was dominant, and her brain melted down.

[–]yalla_habibi 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

I have been a lurker here for a very long time but only recently created an account on reddit. Since my account is new, I can't post it on the sub but I hope someone who can, reads this article because once you near the end, you will automatically realize this needs to be in a post. It's a confirmation of all that we already know as Red Pillers but in the form of an admission by the ones who most vehemently deny the principles of Red Pill. Seriously, guys, have a look.

[–]Ifuckinglovepron0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That article, he seduced the poor hamster into trying to become him... And she bit and fucked her life,lol.

[–]1rporion5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

IMO you are well on your way to become one of the great ones.

Not quite Rollo territory yet, but damn....

[–]SexyDeviI8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

Why not, what do you consider sets Rollo so far apart from IllimitableMan?

My opinion formed after reading their art was that they are absolutely equal.

Would appreciate hearing your arguments.

[–]1rporion17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think Rollo is more of a system builder, which appeals to me.

I do not benefit that much from morsels of information, however much they may make sense, I want to see the general shape of things, then I do not need the details, because then I can feel the rhytm.

What is also possible is that the guys who really rocked my world were Pook, Solomon II, Roissy and Rollo.

Maybe you cannot recreate the first moment you really open your eyes and see.

edit: not that far, very close.

[–]SexyDeviI4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for elaborating, I'm exactly the opposite - that's why I wondered. I tend to prefer IllimitableMan's material over Rollo's and I appreciate you taking the time to share your point of view. I'll examine Rollo's work more carefully now.

[–]trphardmode1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would say that Rollo is a better writer and organizer of information, IllimitableMan has a deeper understanding of human psychology and motivations. Rollo is a much better introduction to TRP for a neophyte though.

[–]RedSugarPill1 point2 points  (41 children) | Copy

The maxims on marriage are succinct, and need to be internalized. Wondering if I can ask a question here: Let’s say I find myself in love with a professional woman who makes twice my salary. What are the reasons for and against marriage (and perhaps family) in this situation?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

She'd never respect you, at least not over the long term. Women are hypergamous, they only respect and love those they perceive as "above" them. Unless you can compensate some other way, via status or dominance for example, you'll enter a situation where you marry a woman who'll eventually develop eyes for other men.

[–]Primemale5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I know a very masculine guy who has no troubles with his wife (at the moment) and she earns at least 50% more than him, although I am willing to concede, it is because of what you said about compensating in some way, he is built, masculine, interesting, fun etc. but for most men it's definitely a no go, it takes that element of dominance away that is natural for man to have, to provide and take care of. (in the context of an LTR, of course)

Also for the guy above: they married BEFORE she was earning 50% more, so time will tell.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

That's super easy to do. Women barely care about money as long as they have enough of it. You've got to be insecure as fuck to let her earning more than you let her not respect you.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

That's odd that you somehow turned around her attraction as a function of your own insecurity. It has nothing to do with the man, and everything to do with her, in this case. If she makes significantly more than you she will start losing her attraction to you. It's just how hypergamy works.

It's not even that much about wealth, so much as it is status. Like you say, women just need to have "enough", though that in itself is highly variable. It's just that you can't make less, as that means she's dating down, in her mind.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

So just never tell a woman how much you make? Pretty simple.

Guarantee they'll never think about it if you don't mention it.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's the common advice here, yeah.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

a professional woman who makes twice my salary.

If she stops working to raise your children, that's a hell of a lot of lost wages she can claim in future alimony.

Alimony is either "keeping her in the manner to which she grew accustomed" (if she makes no money) or "Compensation for lost income and lost career gains while raising kids and eating icecream on the sofa" (if she used to make good money). See how you can't win and you pay for her either way?

[–]RedSugarPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the answer I needed to hear..Thanks!

[–]mate964 points5 points  (32 children) | Copy

She would never marry you because such a relationship would have her supporting you financially, like a mother. Male dependency disgusts women.

[–]iamkarnath18 points19 points  (11 children) | Copy

Male dependency disgusts women.

So true. I blew out my ACL and my ex-wife couldn't stand being in the hospital room. She was visibly disgusted that I was injured.

[–]zaiguy16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy

Fuck, this exactly. I was a Fisheries Department officer and earned decent coin, had a dangerous job working at sea and around dangerous men (commercial fishermen) and my ex blew me at least a few times a week.

I fell off a ladder at sea while boarding a foreign fishing vessel and got crushed between the two boats. Three months in hospital and eight months recovery and the cunt left me for another guy while I was still laid up!

She hamstered it away saying that our relationship had been dying etc etc.

[–]Username-_-20157 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

" our relationship had been dying etc etc."

What she meant was that you were dying, literally and financially. So she found someone else. Fucking women, it's so easy to read them know, fucking sick they make me! AWALT

[–]Koozyer 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy

perhaps theres more pussified men around where i live. but i went down on my motorcycle while my bitch was riding right next to me.

broke the fuck out of my wrist. she rode my bike home. ran back, luckily we werent far from where i was staying, didnt bother to take her helmet off, rode her bike back and then ran back to help me.

she was just about in tears, but i treated it as stoicly as possible [no crying, no tears, none of that pussy shit] and she acted accordingly.

she preceded to come with me to the ER, and afterwards fuck me as much as i wanted, blow me as much as i wanted, whenever i wanted. buy or cook me food while i was laid up in MY MOMS HOUSE.

she could be a whore, who knows. but thats very generous for someone who would rather have another mans cock in them.

[–]SpawnQuixote4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, nobody is saying there aren't good girls out there.

We're saying, unless you maintain frame (which in this example you did) 100% of the time, her respect will diminish as your ability to provide does. If you had been paralyzed from this accident what does this story become? Be honest with yourself here.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you can hold frame whilst your body betrays you with agony - you are one manly motherfucker. Most men are reduced to children by excruciating physical pain. She had an eye for quality. You are more a man than most.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Totally off topic, but what do you mean by dangerous men? Are fishermen a bunch of pirates? Forgive my ignorance haha.

[–]zaiguy2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Ha, I guess it does sound kinda odd. Allow me to elaborate:

Most commercial fishing trawlers (on Canada's Pacific Coast, anyways) are owned by corporate entities. A few are family owned but rising costs have driven most of those out of business.

These corporate boats are basically floating factories. They hire a skipper, who is a lifer and probably has a college education in nautical something or other. He will usually bring one or two trusted guys with him from whichever other vessel he was running before.

This small core crew will then hire deckhands to do a lot of the shitty manual labor on board the boat. I've worked construction and I can tell you that the hardest work I've ever seen is being a deckhand on a fishing boat.

Anyways, a lot of these deckhands are societal rejects. Many are ex-cons and this is the only work they can get. Most have some sort of addiction to something and anyone who works at sea fir a while develops a detachment from society, and social skills are the first to go (there's a reason expressions like "swear like a sailor" exist).

Now the skipper has his career on the line. A single charge means no corporation will trust him with a $20 million boat. He is responsible for everything on that boat, so if a deckhand dies something illegal the skipper gets the fine. His crew don't give a shit and they're always breaking some law or another, plus they hate "the man" and authority in general and many can't accept that times are changing for the fishing industry.

We (Fisheries departments) are tasked with enforcing the various Fisheries acts and regulations and monitoring stick levels, adjusting individual vessel quotas, closing overfished areas down and ensuring vessels only retain the fish permitted in their license conditions.

So the deckhands just want to fish anything and want the government to fuck off, the skippers want to protect their careers and have a bunch of drug addicts ex cons to control, and the Fisheries Department wants to enforce the laws of the land (or sea, as it were). It's a huge conflict waiting to happen.

I've had a crow bar swung at my head, a 30/30 hunting rifle pulled on me and been pushed/punched/bitten countless times, many times while on the rolling deck of a ship at sea, covered in water and slippery fish slime.

There's a reason Fisheries Officers wear kevlar vests.

[–]Nothing_Gazes_Back2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well, shit. That is a really volatile power dynamic. I don't envy the guy that has to enforce order with a boat full of overworked, violent ex cons. Thanks for explaining.

[–]RedSugarPill5 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

OK, so let's say the man is making $95k and the woman is making $160k per year. They are both professionals, make plenty of money to support themselves, and enjoy their respective careers. Is the idea of marriage in this case a fantastic myth?

For the record, I know an M.D. (woman) who is married and has children with a shop fabricator, who in all likelihood makes 1/4th of her income.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

No it's definitely possible. The above is more a rule of thumb than anything. But you need to bring something to the table to turn her on if it isn't money. Whether it be status, superior looks, etc

[–]RedSugarPill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

This article answered my question:

Last sentence of the article reads: “In 2012, only 39% of newlywed women who married a spouse with less education out-earned their husband, and a majority of them (58%) made less than their husband.”

I'll take those odds.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would never recommend using this sub to completely dictate your life. In general it's about observing trends and behavior. And generally a women will be less attracted to someone who makes less

[–]mate962 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only time I've heard of it was with a wealthy but very nerdy looking unattractive woman and the guy ended up murdering her in an attempt to cash out on the life insurance.

It's fantastically unlikely. Women are hardwired to lock down the best partner they possibly can to secure the brightest outcome for their children. They are not looking for "love" in a marriage, they are looking for financial and social security, provided by a man. To provide it themselves would mean they might have to actually, y'know, keep working hard past 40.

Research hypergamy. Women want to climb up the social and financial ladder and they can because men worth far more than her will willingly hand over their resources for her youth, fertility and beauty. Hence gold digging. There is no similar phenomenon for men because the things women value are entirely different.

Even if you were worth far more than a career woman I would advise against marrying one for the following reasons:

*She has likely wasted her most fertile years in an office, your sperm will be good to go for a long time yet. *She has probably adopted a very masculine personality to deal with the competitiveness of the career life. *She's probably a feminist, since they are the primary propagators of the strong, independent career women. *Being so work focused means she may not have any homekeeping skills, making her a useless wife.

Get yourself a russian mail order bride.

[–]wordjedi 0 points0 points [recovered] | Copy

the man is making $95k and the woman is making $160k per year. They are both professionals, make plenty of money to support themselves, and enjoy their respective careers.

That would dry up her pussy faster than anything. At some point it's not even about the money for them. It's about social status. (speaking from experience here)

[–]the_number_2-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think one of the only ways it wouldn't dry her up is if you were up-and-coming with a new startup that was clearly on the way to the top and you were constantly re-investing profits into growth and/or paying well for talented employees.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Even then... refer to maxim #23:

IM MAXIM #23: “Women want the final product, but successful men value a woman who was there for the journey. The problem is, women detest risk. And so they have the propensity to hold back ambitious men with their petulant insecurities. Should he become too powerful, she fears she will lose her monopoly of him. She sabotages him to secure him, for the crab bucket mentality is intrinsic to women.”

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. My ex professed to fearing that I wouldn't accomplish my dreams AND fearing that I would. If I didn't, then she would lose respect for me and if I did, then she would lose me.

No winning for losing...

[–]Gunnilingus3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're both right and wrong. Male dependency disgusts women, yes; but there's much more to dependency than who makes more money. This is obvious; there are plenty of housewives who "wear the pants in the relationship." You maintain frame as long as she knows your ready to walk if she starts exhibiting unacceptable behavior. She may be the one bringing home more money, but as long as you make enough money yourself that you could walk out and support yourself easily and she knows it, then there's not necessarily any issue. Also, make it clear that if she ever wants to have children, you will not be willing to drop your career and be a househusband.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

Then why are women that you are fucking regularly always so happy to do so much shit for you?...

[–]reigorius1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

Because the project their fantasy guy on you. And they would do anything to please this guy.

[–]SilentForTooLong0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

Even be his mom, right?

So clearly male weakness doesn't really disgust women that much.

[–]mate963 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

There's a massive difference between women WANTING to do stuff for you and HAVING to do stuff for you. If they know you can do things yourself then you are not reliant on them and can end the relationship any-time you please. This means that any benefits they derive from the relationship (sex, social status, accommodation etc.) can be revoked at any time if they don't behave properly, thus motivating them to do stuff for you.

Outcome independence is very important for the man. If he is a high value man who a woman knows could easily replace him with another woman who will do what he wants she will be more competitive in keeping him by displaying subservience and other desirable feminine attributes.

Ultimately when women do something for you it's only a token gesture calculated to bring them some of your worth. If you are worth very little do not expect a favour, loyalty or equitable return for services for you provide. If they become an irreplaceable part of your life, i.e. you're married, do not expect her to provide anything to you like sex or cooking, even if she did so before the marriage in an attempt to lure you in. Why would she? Nobody can force her to.

If a woman is doing you favours it's because you're a HIGH value man, not weak.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

"I cook and clean for you! I do your laundry! I take care of you!"

"Don't fucking do it! I can do it myself! I never asked you! I'm so sick of your shit! Always bitching and creating drama! I'm fucking OVER it!"

Tears "But I LOVE you!" "I NEED to take care of you!"

She would always suck up her tears and go for my zipper if I firmly put my foot down in wanting her to go. Worked like a charm because then I would forget all about her bullshit and start thinking, maybe it's not so bad...

As soon as I hit hard times and felt like I actually did need her, she was gone. Monkey-barred and rubbed my face in it. Became stone cold. Turned off her love like a switch. Lied, manipulated, took advantage, down right cruel in the end.

Won't get fooled again.

[–]mate961 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

They have no concept of long term investment, only short term pleasure. Take a professional athlete being injured for a year. If she'd just stick with him through rehabilitation she would have a loyal and successful partner at the end of it. But no, if you're worth nothing at the current time that's all that matters in her mind. Maybe she'll come back after a year of promiscuity and beg you to take her back, and actually rationalise it as being confused but suddenly seeing the light of how glorious you are.

Fuck women. They'll never help a man battling to rise to the top, only make themselves available to him once he's there. They're parasites, we're the hosts.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, she fucked up and she knows it. She's now with a bb except no bucks. Haha. He's a sweet hippie farmer dude and she is dominant. She told me that she is like me in her new relationship.

I told her that if she stands by me through this shit that I'll never leave her and accept all her imperfections because I'm not perfect myself. Never got a real response because she had already been planning how to fuck me over and had been for awhile. I was so blind. She made me believe that she was so dependent on me that she would never leave, even if I was cruel or abusive (which I'm not).

She used me until she secured another branch to swing to. So many times I let her stay because I cared about her well being and she had nowhere to go and would cry and cry telling me how much she loved me. And the sex was awesome, whenever, wherever and however I wanted... She broke up with me over the phone by telling me about the new cock she was gonna fuck (not her words), and two hours later I saw them walking together on the main street with my dog. We had fucked just a few days before. I lost my shit...

I've always been a natural alpha, despite my extreme liberal, non-gender role upbringing. I'm very dominant, resourceful and independent, but was also quite naive. Honest, kind and generous to a fault. In my search for understanding I found evolutionary psychology and eventually ended up here. I'm finding that all of my suspicions and observations about women and relationships are being validated.

She misses my money, security, sexual dominance and potency. I could have easily got her back if I didn't become such a week little bitch, but the jealous rage I felt at the fact that my little lady was getting fucked by another dude really sent my ass towards the rocks.

I'm proud that I never did anything stupid, came close to major felonies numerous times but always managed to stop myself. I never could seriously try to get her back because the sex was broken. I could never fuck her again without the image of her with the other guy in my head. I was in torment for over a year with dreams, anger, sorrow, regret, alcohol...

What a valuable lesson. Never realized how subconsciously I can become attached to a woman, even though I wanted to break up with her. Over six years of providing, protecting and fucking hit's you on a deep biological level.

After reading illimitable men I've come to realize that she was probably as good as it gets. But I'm free now and there's no turning back. TRP cured my anger and regret. I now realize how good my position is. She's 31, I'm 41 (but look like early 30s). It took me a few years but I now have a 23 year old hottie that could be a super model (just begging) and my better understanding of human nature. I feel more empowered than ever before.

Sorry if over share. I'm really just typing this all out for myself...

[–]thisiskindofmessedup1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Christ, this is definitely going in my evernote.

[–]donit1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

and a man no longer sacrifices, love is lost. It is a delicate balance, for respect is lost when either fails in their capacity. Man sacrifices, woman admires, that is love.”

Great post and well-put, but what do you mean by "sacrifices?" That's like her wanting you to stay home from a business trip, or night out with the buds. Making those kinds of sacrifices isn't going to add any value, that's just lowering your value.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, you're working on a book? You could make some decent dough selling these books for $10-15 apiece.

[–]plentyoffishes0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

  1. I don't like soft women, nor tough women. She's gotta have her own mind but let me handle things when needed.
  2. Sacrifice is for the weak-minded. I never sacrifice. Instead I choose to do what I do to get the outcomes I want.
  3. We are not machines. We have consciousness no matter what our programming might have been.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Feel free to "debunk" the other 47 if you wish, too.

[–]random3tfbsd0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Dont be angry... UNDERSTAND! Had to write it down quickly wherever, en epiphany moment, random ideas. You cant be angry on woman for BEING WOMAN. We are in perennial battle yet Woman and man are like yin ans yang, separate but at the same time cant live without, if you are trully man and she is trully wonan, you give each other energy to strive, shes secure, taking care of the backgroung, and you have the greatest power in the world, you are madly in love and feel like you can conquer everyone and everything, and you do this in the real world, you are the king, not in politically sense, but like LION IN AFRICA, look how providing safety for a pride makes lionesses doing their best, feeding cubs and males. She is fire and it's a nature of fire to burn, a true fire, the HELL, you are the water, your nature is to? Can't describe it with one word, but you cant be a stream, a lake, a river or even a sea, you must be the OCEAN you have to be the function ist to extinguish the fire if it spreads to far, and it's a nature of fire to spread by devouring everything it encounter, yet you fire have to learn how to play with fire, once you master that skill, you are....? Powerful. Fire likes be extinguished, she likes it as much as she likes to burst with flames causing inferno, then YOU come, calm, smiling and thinking something like "oh, you did it again, that'a all right my child, cry if you want, everything will be ok" You calm her and the cycle is complete, another started. We are a patriarchal society, now females, only those ANGRY ones, want to bring back matriarchy(power), but on a new level, not using their charm but BETA MEN and law. And I would really want to see how it happens, just for fun, it will be funny knowing women cant be in control, that's why the will use BETA MEN, and that's dangerous! Yet women are vulnerable to alphas, it's dangerous to be alpha, I don't say become alpha by learning tricks, look into your soul, deep deep down that you can see your liquid testosterone boiling. Beta man won't listen, yet they will follow example. This is my swallowing the pill, understanding how world works, after anger comes laughter, now I just want to have fun in this life. TRP goes deeper than superficial job, money, women, it's a realization how the world really works and living to the fullest, it is BUDDHISM 2.0. But it is not a religion, not an ideology, this is taking your mind on another level, one of the many, this level gives gives you control over your feelings because they no longer control you've let go, you now understand that feeling come and go, you don't have control over feelings, its like a rain or sun, day and night, after night comes always day. You are over that observing doing your mission, emotionless with passion and pride and sweet sense of satisfaction, smiling and loving everyone, you've realized that you are a GOD in your world, because only you have control in your life.

Edit: some wording, new ideas.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Paragraphs dude, paragraphs. Without paragraphs, most just cannot be fucked to entertain your thoughts.

[–]ShekelBanker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This HAS to be on the sidebar.

[–]chiralC0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit, what a quality post. Unbelievable insight

[–]DuncanMonroe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

#6 is fucking genius. Few things have ever been more true.

[–]user65800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Number 3 hits home so hard. In a LTR and at first I had all the power and respect she could muster. Than the demand of sacrifice comes lowering the respect. No sacrifice and she feels you don't want her, too much and she don't want you.

[–]user65800 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Axiom 43 makes a lot of sense to me I know a high value women (200k a year, net worth ~5 million) and she was proposed to after 3 months of dating to a man who has nothing to his name.

I think women also have a deluded idea about marriage in the though of it being romantic too.

Like my girlfriend says, we need to bring dowries back. Marriage used to be about networking amd building a strong family name. The sanctity of marriage has been dead for a long time.

[–]BlueFreedom420-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

About Maxim #6. Evolution and civilzation has shown that the feminine strategy wins. The state makes sure that men are disposable and have to buy in to attain a sexual partner. Basically, its a matriarchy controlled by men. Men who are able to get sex without working for it, will never sacrifice themselves in your wars, or maintain your moral code(control) through family structure.Now the elite class can avoid this because they are not expected to sacrifice themselves for the state, merely maintain the matriarchy.

Feminism has messed this system up. In the past, men who proven themselves were allowed any partner and were never accused of rape no matter how brutal and forceful they were. They had bought in. Feminism has removed even the reward of sacrifice. A war hero cannot have a harem of women anymore. A alpha cannot fuck any woman he likes even if she doesn't want to fuck. Now he just gets prison time.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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