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Men aren't taught how to be attractive. Women are born into it.

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October 1, 2015
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Post Information
Title Men aren't taught how to be attractive. Women are born into it.
Author
Upvotes 780
Comments 220
Date 01 October 2015 07:35 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/36826
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3n5247/men_arent_taught_how_to_be_attractive_women_are/
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Comments

[–]Code_Bordeauxx440 points441 points  (49 children) | Copy

Interesting thoughts. But it's worse than you portray. Not only are men not taught how to attract girls, we're actively being misguided. 'Just be yourself', 'share your feelings', 'buy her presents'. That's why it's so effective. If you don't know something you naturally look for answers, which you will find through observation soon enough. But if you were fed lies you perceive as truths it turns you into a complacent idiot who thinks he himself is the problem. TRP isn't just some stuff you need to learn. It's the stuff that you need to unlearn that matters the most.

Lastly, you're an idiot for mentioning TRP in real life. You're playing with fire and you will get burnt.

[–]ShounenEgo94 points95 points  (11 children) | Copy

"Just be yourself" works for them because they want the alpha who grew up to be comfortable with his masculinity naturally. Every beta who's trying to become an alpha is a faker and is met with "that's just not you".

[–]Code_Bordeauxx60 points61 points  (7 children) | Copy

Don't forget it's also a case of keeping betas betas. Girls can't have too many providing betas around and they don't like to lose a source of their validation and free stuff. I think this may be just as big an incentive for them to act the way they do.

And I think there's one factor there that's most important and not even malevolent in its nature: girls simply don't know any better than that it works. "Just be yourself" has always worked for them after all. It's a typical case of projection. I think most of them genuinly believe it to be sound advice. That's why mothers tell it to their very own children.

[–]2Overkillengine15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy

Don't forget it's also a case of keeping betas betas. Girls can't have too many providing betas around and they don't like to lose a source of their validation and free stuff. I think this may be just as big an incentive for them to act the way they do.

This. She gets little to no immediate personal benefit from multiple alpha males in her circle, as they rarely provide more than they receive, while beta males do.

It's effective in the short term.

Until they Dale Earnhardt.

[–]Hydris3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Until they Dale Earnhardt.

Never heard it put like that. Thats awful and great at the same time.

[–]JimRim2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That HANS device feels like a goddamn noose around my neck.

[–]P-Nuddy 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

At the same time "being yourself" is good advice though. You need to do what you really want to do at the deepest level. It doesn't mean to stay acting like a loser... Its just a nuanced point that can be misinterpreted. I think the advice is good for people who have low confidence in their interests or think that they need to please others.

[–]3NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

When people say "be yourself", what they really mean is "don't be awkward, but don't be canned and rehearsed either." They want you be comfortable, confident, smooth. That's easier to deal with than a person who's awkward or forced.

What people don't talk about is that becoming confident, comfortable, etc is something that takes practice and skill. They don't realize that sometimes awkward or rehearsed is precisely what a person is, because they're unskilled.

So hitting the gym, working at your craft, etc is good advice. Because you'll develop discipline, skill, confidence. You're still yourself before and after.

[–]solaris19903 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I think this is what it's intended by it. Being yourself isn't something that should exclude self-development or mean that you should be wholly transparent and vulnerable to anyone. Some guys try to 'be themselves' without seeking to 'improve themselves' and surprise surprise they become disgruntled.

For example, for this sub I try to internalize things I find desirable, behaviours, habits and so forth, and by doing so and putting them into practice it feels like they become a part of me rather than something I'm forcing on for the sake of getting more girls or whatever. Conversely, I wouldn't like to adopt so many of those at once that it would essentially feel like an act... I can imagine some guys trying to adopt the whole RP docrine in one swallow or something - with them I guess the girl in OP's conversation would have a point in saying 'you're not being true to yourself' because self-development happens in stages.

[–]Nespos57 points58 points  (1 child) | Copy

And here we're reminded that women are programmed to look for genetic markers of fitness. I believe that's what "natural" really means in this context. They'll discourage you from becoming "too muscular" when you start lifting, they'll tell you that you seem cold and distant when you learn to be stoic, and they sure as hell don't want to know that you're online reading about how to "get laid."

Look at height as a nearly universally attractive trait in men. Women know you can't fake that. They see tall and they see strong genes. If tomorrow they were to come out with a "tall pill," women would come up with every excuse in the book to get you not to take it.

[–]KonigInPreussen9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Taking the tall pill to trick women into liking you, is a sign of objectification.
Only misogynists would take something that objectifies women."

[–]ColdEiric4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

'Just be yourself' works for women, because a young, naive, innocent girl who recently got to puberty, who recently grew and got a woman's body parts, she is 'just herself'. She talks and says things without thinking, because she has no theory, no experience, no nothing. She is 'just being herself'. That's why she's attractive. She just has to become 15 to be attractive.

And it's so insulting to listen to it, because we have to become tested and molded by the successful, silver-hair'd alpha males first, to be able to be attractive AND to 'just be yourself'.

[–]ScoobyGang10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Listen to this man, especially about his last point. With this girl you had time to explain yourself and you have some history so you mollified it. Watch out though, you won't have that opportunity if word get around, which it will, people talk. People jump to conclusions, it's easier, no woman is going to be self-contemplating about this enough to sympathize with the enemy. It might end up hurting your sexual strategy. In the future, if a woman somehow discovers you frequent the red pill I would dismiss. Say you went on there for shits and giggles or better yet just don't say anything and change the subject. It's a very political matter, and just like dynamics, the best way to exploit a situation is to not expose yourself. We're all behind enemy lines, and the situation just gets more difficult to handle if you flaunt your perception.

[–]larrythetomato4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not only are men not taught how to attract girls, we're actively being misguided. 'Just be yourself', 'share your feelings', 'buy her presents'.

It's funny you say that, because women are being misguided to shit by the same crowd: fat acceptance, become a lawyer, fucking losers will make you happy, you can have it all. The feminist crowd has fucked shit up for everyone.

Lastly, you're an idiot for mentioning TRP in real life. You're playing with fire and you will get burnt.

It's different when it is one-on-one, if you can calmly explain things while her insults roll off, they you can do whatever you want. If he speaks as he wrote, he could be explaining to her why fedora+fat+neckbeard is the ultimate chick magnet combination. When conversing with women and in public in general, content is the least important thing, it's all about presentation.

[–]Oh_FuFu4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don't be the type of asshole people don't like. Be the type of asshole people like.

For example, be the type of asshole that makes your mom laugh and love you. Be the type of asshole that makes your girl laugh and love you. Sometimes you gotta make me cry too.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (15 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy

You have an unpopular opinion because it's wrong. Lots of guys just weren't taught growing up, they were taught lies. Blue pillers don't bitch and moan, they don't even understand that they are blue pillers.

He has a great post, yours...not so good. Calling his post stupid shit?

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (6 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

this whole thing is repugnant and stupid in that it doesn't point out the thousands and thousands of moments in a boy's life growing up where he is being taught by the environment and people to become a better man.

And then when he learns them and tries to do them, his parents, teachers, others in authority over him tell him NOT to do or be what he's just learned. He's actively and intentionally directed AWAY from what he's just learned and is disincentivized specifically AWAY from what he's learned BY WOMEN.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

but this whole thing is repugnant and stupid

Edit: Don't get me wrong he makes some good points,

Well which one is it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think we both actually agree on things. Because in the end, no matter how someone was raised or taught things or lied to, or even abused growing up, you still have to take responsibility for making your own choices and decisions as a man. You can blame others for things, but eventually you realize that blaming others just holds you back.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]MatrixDream 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy

Nature vs nurture. It's both. It's a combination of how your inherent personality reacts to everything you have been exposed to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–]1DRMMR764 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You do realize the act of observing the environment and then forging your own is by definition being taught right? Not from a person, but you are still learning skills you did not have before by gathering outside information and taking it in. When a child burns his hand on a stove for the first time and learns not to do that again, is he not taught not to touch a hot stove? Does it not count as teaching or learning since it wasn't a human being telling him not to do it?

The fact is that many males are actively taught the wrong things by their environment. Schools that downplay winning and achievement, parents no longer pushing their young boys to get into sports, TV and movies pushing the idea of the shy awkward selfless Beta getting the girl in the end after she choosing him over the "asshole". All of these things are teaching boys every day.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Op pointed out that Miranda brought up trp. He was just more honest with his answer.

[–]solaris19900 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Not most men are taught 'just be yourself', 'share your feelings', 'buy her presents'. Maybe a lot of the men who end up winding their path to this sub, and it's definitely becoming a bit of a doctrine in modern developed countries education systems/social justice circles but (other than gift-giving in a broad sense, which of course has long historical roots) they're not things internalized by the vast majority of men across the world (doesn't make some of this subs content less valuable to those who are affected by it though).

Misguide is also really the wrong word. Most parents or caregivers want little boys to turn out strong and confident - when they say 'be yourself', it's more like 'be secure in yourself', 'stand as tall as others' or 'don't be afraid of the world', they're trying to instill self-security and confidence. Sure it can backfire, especially when combined with other things we may pick or be taught (where the 'self' they've been taught to showcase is no longer ideal), but the aim is to empower not to deceive...

[–]Code_Bordeauxx2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I picked three very clear examples, but the underlying problem is much, much wider and manifests itself in many ways. Let me share a short personal story: I had a bully in primary school. When I told my parents, the advice that was given was 'don't let it get to you and just ignore it'. What I should have been told is to punch the guy in the face the next time and ignore whatever reaction follows. The pattern is what's important here, and every guy has relevant personal stories.

I don't doubt parents and caregivers say what they say with the best intentions, but I don't care what they mean to say. What matters is what they actually say and what consequences this has. "Be yourself" removes every drive to actually change your personality for the better. It instills complacency. Misguide is the right word if the advice people are given sends them in the polar opposite direction than they should be going. The world has seen too much suffering in the name of good intentions. What matters are results.

[–]solaris19901 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Be yourself" removes every drive to actually change your personality for the better. It instills complacency

I agree with this being the main problem but I don't believe 'being yourself' necessarily excludes 'improving' yourself - someone said further down -

You need to do what you really want to do at the deepest level. It doesn't mean to stay acting like a loser... Its just a nuanced point that can be misinterpreted.

So there's no problem with what they are saying; guys are taking it the wrong way (the easy comfortable low-effort thing to do) rather than seeking to improve, which I guess is the issue in itself. And of course, I have my own personal stories I could share, bad tendencies I picked up and so forth or I wouldn't be here, I just thought two of the three specific examples you made (although relevant to my own upbringing) were quite modern and far from universal (there are/have been entire cultures where men are stoic ore comparatively so by default) and wanted to point that out.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

If a specific message is widely interpreted wrongly the problem is in the accuracy of the message, not in the recipients who interpet it.

And I don't agree with the other user. It's not that you only need to do what you really want. In the process of becoming a man you need to do a lot of things that you don't want to do and that's exactly what this is about. Nobody likes going to the gym for the first time. Nobody likes cold approaching girls. Nobody likes studying hard. Nevertheless you still need to do it. But you're not going to if people keep telling you to just do what you like to do.

[–]solaris19900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think by 'what you really want to do' he meant aims (becoming built) not processes (going to the gym or those others you list). That's what I understood at least.

If a specific message is widely interpreted wrongly the problem is in the accuracy of the message, not in the recipients who interpet it.

I think this is debatable. The message might be fine yet harmful if combined with other teachings or wider socialisation. For example, fostering a sense of entitlement combined with 'be who you really are' seems deadly but being told (or better yet taught) to always try better oneself in order to achieve one's aims while being given the same message doesn't seem like it should be destructive to me. I think the problem is a bit deeper than the wording of that particular message.

[–]CrackityDiggity88 points89 points  (6 children) | Copy

And if you don't agree that women resent deliberate attempts by men to be more attractive, consider this: men don't mind it when women wear make-up, fake tits, hair extensions, high heels etc. But try wearing platform shoes, a toupee, or shoulder pads and see how women react. ;)

Great post. A very Socratic dialogue.

[–]NiceKicksGabe20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy

seinfeld episode addresses this.

[–]CrackityDiggity21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy

Do you know the season / episode # and/or title? I wouldn't mind going back and watching this.

[–]FeeFeeFeaster9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Season 6, Episode 16 - "The Beard"

Key scene is Elaine ripping the toupee off George's head, running over to the open window, and yelling "I don't like this thing!. And here's what I'm doing with it!" She then throws it out the window and walks away, smiling with satisfaction that she reset George back to beta.

[–]Born2Ball0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I must have watched that episode 10 times and never realized how much red pill truths that scene speaks.

[–]OilyB6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I sometimes think that's why some women are disappointed in men: their standards of men are much too high, they think we're gods. And then we turn out to be fallible and human. And they're disappointed. They raised their standards so they expect even higher standards from us. That's why I like TRP - it raised a man's standards and expectations of himself. But women should really start to understand we're human first.

[–]Rebikhan58 points59 points  (8 children) | Copy

That last point- that "naturals" really just learned these lessons earlier is so crucial. No one comes out of the womb with all the tactics, skills, and confidence to become attractive to women. Some boys are just more willing to take the risks early to learn the lessons on the playground. Doesn't matter if they're naturally less risk averse, had a big brother to teach them, or happened to be in circumstances where they got more time with girls. These lessons were learned, not innate.

The reason "naturals" appear natural is only because they hide the lessons and use the experience. They make their accomplishments seem effortless.

Excellent post, thank you.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Self-actualization is great. I'd go as far as to say it is the average man's duty to take the legos & play-dough they're made of and build it into all they can be. Alas, in moderation - it's also their duty to keep that mushy contraption safe by recognizing and staying the fuck away from the metal shredders built out of titanium. Too many people take it too far and end up losing everything they gained - and then some - by trying to compete with their genetic superiors.

[–]Tiborik0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Too many people take it too far and end up losing everything they gained - and then some - by trying to compete with their genetic superiors

Can you explain this to me?

[–]Endorsed ContributorAFPJ2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty simple stuff, applicable everywhere. Some strictly "RP" related examples:

  • Don't take dates or your GF to clubs if you're still working out (many) social flaws.
  • Don't be in situations where you can get yourself seriously (physically) fucked up.
  • Don't introduce your 2nd/3rd date (and for a long time) to your hotter friends.

But more in general... don't try to square up against people where the chance of you losing is too high. What do I mean by this? Everything. It's confusing because it's so ubiquitous. If you're at a company for a year, don't bump heads with guys who've been there for a decade. If you've got your own business, don't compete directly against those ran by more disciplined & capable people - you'll just waste years of your life when you declare bankruptcy.

So far, so on. It's basically you do you but have common sense. For example, if you're visiting and in a bar in south Brazil, look around before hitting on a girl or you might catch a swift right to your jaw shortly after saying "Hello".

[–]BruceIsTheBatman2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

In other words, "naturals" have more experience because they started early. Well, yeah, that's been the definition of a natural since forever.

[–]41751864618 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think what they mean by "natural" is someone who didn't have to learn. Someone who tries something once and finds out that he excels at it.

[–]1DRMMR760 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The key is though that women tend to think subconsciously that it's genetic.

[–]trpfaust84 points85 points  (4 children) | Copy

The point that men learn to be attractive is an interesting one. Back when boys could be boys, all of this would have been learned on the playground. But the combination of more boys being raised by single mothers who teach them to 'respect' girls, along with 'zero tolerance' policies for boyish behavior means that far fewer men will learn these truths earlier in life, and will come to depend on the internet to teach them. I'm certainly a part of this group, and the growing RP community is a testament to this trend.

[–]osaka_love_thief60 points61 points  (2 children) | Copy

Let me tell you about a recent experience I had. So I went on this hiking trip and decided to car pool (cuz my hellaflush sports car is too low for gravel roads and I'm not sittin on bags... ok ok its not that low but you get the point) with a group of friends and a buddy of mine who has the hots for this single mother (early 30's in great shape takes care of herself but still... single mamas gonna single mama) is driving.

So anyhow single Mama has two little sons aged I think 9 and 7 in the backseat who upon first glance seemed just like two normal boys until I paid much closer attention. What I noticed when the boys began to get into a minor physical altercation (just pushing and shoving and a few slaps) that Single mama would instantly grow frustrated and shoot straight into "Holy shit nuclear launch detected" mode and began shrieking "HEY CUT THAT OUT NO HITTING OR WE STOP THE CAR". Single Mama's little runts soon started passively trying to manipulate their Mother into this sort of blame game where "Hey he started it" and blah blah blah instead of just finishing what they started until one of them admitted defeat and authority was reestablished.

Contrast this to when I was on the hike and there was a two parent family who also had two sons of roughly the same age. While hiking behind them I saw the little brother chuck a rock at older brother for shits and giggles. The Mother of the family turned to the Father and he whispered something in her ear as older brother turned around and shoved lil bro to the dirt. No fussing no whining just older bro using raw brute force to remind lil bro to stay in line or get hit; no "lets play mind games to convince mother who should be blamed" or anything. Afterwards lil bro got up brushed himself off and the family just kinda kept hiking like nothing happened. Brothers fight a lot... every parent knows this; a friend who worked as a middle school teacher once told me "You can tell which guys grew up with brothers; they can take a hit and aren't afraid of fights".

And just for kicks... later in the afternoon(it was like a 5 hour hike) on the steepest part of the trail guess which group of boys started complaining and had their mother take them back to the car for snacks and drinks because it was "too painful on their feet". You have two choices; the brothers who fight or the overly sensitive new age modern boys who cry to mama whenever things get too hard and difficult. Finally one last thing; I overheard from single mama that "It really scares me when my boys start fighting; I'm never sure what to do, I just panic thinking that they could hurt each other".

Lastly perhaps the strongest indicator that brothers who fight trust each other more was when the boys from the two parent family got lost for a bit and when the hiking group I was with caught up with them older brother had fashioned some sort of weapon from a large tree branch and lil bro had a small handful of rocks. The parents reprimanded the boys to which the eldest brother said something along the lines of "You told me to look out for lil bro if we got separated and I didn't want him to get hurt so I found this big stick".

Its strange how the brothers who fight all the time had this strong bond with each other, I could only imagine what the "sensitive boys" would have done in that same situation. I swear I only observe minor things like this since after reading TRP... but anyhow all of this is anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

[–]P-Nuddy 11 points11 points [recovered] | Copy

Yea me and my little bro used to fight a lot when we were younger. We stopped fighting when we got to be teenagers but our bond/ trust is strong AF. I always try to teach him the valuable shit I learn and I know he appreciates it. There is no one in the world who I trust more than him.

[–]TorontoHooligan4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You guys are super fucking lucky. My brother and I were really close as kids, fought a lot but as you guys pointed out, that happens. Now he's a complete fucking shit head and I don't have any positive memories past 14.

[–]moose_war38 points39 points  (6 children) | Copy

I always refer back to that conversation I had with a female friend once. She was newly single and using Tinder and completely having a blast and I tried to explain how for men, it's way harder to get laid. She claimed it was just as easy for men as it is women, meaning the average man could get sex as easy as the average woman. She then told me that women approach the average men at bars "all the time". I realized then that women, even smart women in their late 20s, really have no clue what dating is like for 80% of men. They have no reason to know so they just assume it's like a slightly less glamorous version of what they go through for sex, dating and attention. The only women that know are ones Nora Vincent. You can tell by how she explains the experience that she truly understands and has empathy for men, instead of just saying "Heh heh it's easy for MOST men...maybe just not you!" Which is weird since I've talked to VERY attractive men who still have to deal with a mountain of bullshit and still have to initiate 95% of the encounters and are sick of women. These are guys that get laid very regularly with hot women and even they are burnt out by this shit.

[–]AllOrDeath7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

If even the top men who are getting the most attractive woman at high frequencies are becoming burnt out, doesn't that say, whether you are alpha or beta or omega or whatever, the dating game is fundamentally against men? If so, do you think there is way to change this?

[–]moose_war23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

I just think it's obviously more on the men to "prove" themselves, which is fine. But when you have men who are top tier and still have to play games and you have women with MASSIVELY inflated egos, it gets fucking tedious. I remember reading a story online about some woman who met Adrien Brody, the famous actor, in some night club once. Now who can say if it's a true story, but it sounds realistic. She flirted with him, he flirted back. He invited her back to his place or hotel or whatever, but she said "I'll think about it" to try and play hard to get.

Then, he just went and found some other chick and left with her instead. The teasing woman saw this and was devastated and kicking herself for playing hard to get.

It's like, lady, he wants to fuck you, you want to fuck him, and now you just fucked yourself. The thrill of the hunt is one thing, wasting some guy's time is another, especially when his status is way above yours. Women have huge egos, huge needs for attention and absolutely no regard for most men, even ones they find attractive. In the old days, a man proved himself, was attractive, and the woman responded. Either she wanted him as a husband or boyfriend or sex partner, or she didn't. Now, with shit like Tinder and the like, women can actually like you but then forget you literally even exist because some other guy hit on her and she got distracted. Women will post nudes and then say things like "I'm not the type of girl who just wants sex". Yeah sure. And if a woman just wants sex, it's cool to treat men like dildos. That's her preference. If a man just wants sex, he's just the typical man who only sees women as objects. If a man wants to marry a virgin, his preferences are gross and fedora. If a woman wants to marry or have sex with an experienced man, that's her prerogative.

Now men have to worry about retroactive rape allegations and put up with shitty, jaded attitudes even after they learned all this game and did all this work to become more attractive. It's like, where is the fucking prize in the cracker jacks? And we also have plenty of alpha, good guys who have their shit together that want marriage and a family and they just see the state of things. I know a guy in his 40s like that. Works hard, makes good money, in shape and married to a woman who lead him on that she wanted kids and now she doesn't. Now she doesn't want sex. Now he's stuck in this marriage and he hates it. This is his second marriage. He just wanted a family and every time he has tried, women just let him down. So he thinks, why did I spend 20 years pursuing a family when women just want to fuck and party into their 30s?

I guess the point is, at the end of the day, women can be mediocre and still end up with whatever it is they desire. Men work their asses off and they get mediocre women, false rape allegations, and demonizing bullshit from feminists who want to make things even easier for women.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol wow the Adrien Brody story.

[–]41751864613 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think it can change in the near future. Women are attracted to confidence and walking up to a random woman in a bar is displaying some of that confidence.

If women were less attracted to confidence, or if all men just stopped pursuing women, it might change. Both of those things seem very unlikely to happen.

[–]1DRMMR761 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

From her POV, she's absolutely right. It is just as easy for men to get sex as it is for women. That's because 80% of male human beings don't exist and certainly aren't "men" in the eyes of women. So when a woman says "Men have such and such advantage" they're absolutely right. But only because their definition of men is the top 20%. The bottom 80% don't exist.

[–]moose_war0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

good point, and just as I figured...she gets these ideas from her actions and viewing the actions of the top males

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (14 children) | Copy

Interesting talk but I think men shouldn't speak about red pill with women. It will help them to be more toxic, more manipulative and in the end make the life of men around them worse.

She argued with you pretending that she didn't agree with what you said but inside her she register any informations that you give to her to better her strategy to exploit men around her. Don't speak about TRP with women it is as bad for them than it is for men.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx87 points88 points  (12 children) | Copy

Don't speak about TRP with women anyone

Why so many casually abandon this fundamental concept for the sake of some trivial conversation topic is beyond me. People: stop trying to impress people with your newfound knowledge and shut your mouths. If the wrong people connect you to TRP the damage could be severe. Don't gamble with that. You have nothing to gain, much to lose.

EDIT: typo.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

It wasnt a real conversation.

[–]1DRMMR764 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Speak for yourself. I talked to a friend who had just gotten married about TRP and after about 6 months of being treated like shit by his new wife, including being forced to sleep in his car after she threatened him, he ended up getting a divorce. And because it was early enough and they didn't have kids or joint property, he made it out pretty much unscathed. TRP saved his life, but I showed him the way. This whole "let other men suffer, keep the truth a secret" bullshit is fine for you, but don't act like everyone is obligated to do the same thing.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

With almost every absolute we deal in there are exceptions when it comes to rare cases.

You have a friend you trust to not judge you for participating in a sub such as this. You also trust him not to spread this knowledge about you to other people who might not be so free of mind. This is rare. I don't know your situation but in many cases it's also naive. People generally suck at keeping things secret and at that point it's out of your control where sensitive information ends up.

This friend of yours did not dismiss our ideas. This is also rare. It's often hard to tell to what extent people internally adhere to a beta mindset. Anyone who dismisses our ideas after you've showed them instantly becomes a liability.

Furthermore, he was in a position where disclosing this information could make a very important difference. In many cases it's not so apparent how big the effect on their lives will be.

It seems that you were in a rare situation where you could actually be fairly certain that disclosing this information had a clear purpose and was safe. Of course I would support informing the guy about this place in such a case, but it's just that these scenarios don't present themselves often. It's also not unthinkable you were just Lucky (so far), just saying.

So, summarising, don't tell people you know about this place unless you're absolutely sure they won't use this against you. If you can't be sure, remember that your own well being is paramount.

[–]MatrixDream 16 points16 points [recovered] | Copy

I'm so happy all you guys can ignore everything I said in this post and focus solely on the fact that this conversation was with a woman. Very productive conversation.

I post on things I think will add value and I get 60% responses on how I can't talk to women about anything rational. That wasn't the point of the post.

I'm not friends with girls who can't hold conversations, I don't need you guys looking after my reputation either. I'm just here to try to add value to the discussion.

I'm enjoying reading all the comments that are actually discussing the points I made.

[–]morphite659 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think the overreacting is somewhat overprotective. the whole idea of this community is men helping other men, and some may feel betrayed while others are concerned that new members not see your example as the norm.

[–]n_dois2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm so happy all you guys can ignore everything I said in this post and focus solely on the fact that this conversation was with a woman. Very productive conversation.

Maybe because we men know what TRP is and what it talks about. Whats the point in digest the sidebar to women who clearly have no interest in men improvement? Not disrespecting you, but instead "doing us a favor" by explaining what we (and you) do here, I think you just did it to justify yourself to this girl.

[–]shhRP3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

I really did like your points, and it was a great read. I found it well articulated and thought out.

Your feelz back on track yet, bruh?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Especially in a post-Elliot Rodger (and now Umpqua) world.

[–]RedDeadlift3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. Don't speak about it. Internalize it and show it with the results from your actions.

[–]xerXXes_13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

I know a girl who was not taught how to be attractive, and she's pretty much a bitter feminist. She's Asian and her mom is extremely paranoid about her going off with a guy before she finishes college (and is very controlling in general) and her family is poor, so she doesn't have nice clothes, doesn't wear makeup, and has short hair. She's also not allowed to hang out with people (even other girls sometimes) without her mom present. Thus, she's not attractive, closed off thanks to her parents, and hard to get to know.

One year, she grew out her hair and she was asked out by 3 guys in that one year time span. She had to reject due to her parents (but I also guess they were not her type, because:) Her reaction? "It bothers me that they only asked me out after I became more conventionally attractive."

So essentially most girls who either aren't attractive or don't learn how to be, I suspect, will end up as bitter feminists. It's pretty rare, but BP ideology can hurt women too.

[–]fingerthemoon7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those who refuse to acknowledge the rules cannot play the game and will be left on the sidelines.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men are not taught how to be attractive to women.

Good thought, but TRP represents something even deeper. TRP is deprogramming for men who've been brainwashed by the cult of modern feminism.

[–]CuriousFloyd 8 points8 points [recovered] | Copy

This reminds of a post I saw somewhere about a guy's sister finding out about the Red Pill and having some of the key theory explained to her. Her response?

Absolutely floored. "You aren't supposed to know this..."

Did you get this impression at all? Almost like you had found the guide book and she wishes she could take it away.

[–]notrustled7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

While it's true what you said and it was insightful, here's the thing: explaining things like this to women is like...explaining quantum physics to a dog (Does any of you have a better analogy? Hit me with it).

There's a good reason why TRP vets advocate keeping your mouth shut about these things.

[–]NiceKicksGabe9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Not sure if anyone else addressed this, but women are just as attracted to a guy's physical appearance. The only reason why anyone would go for a less good-looking person are the other characteristics that they bring to the table. And frankly, a man's other characteristics are much more useful/valuable than a women's other characteristics.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women are attracted to a guys appearance, but it's not enough. If they smell beta, the guy just gained 50 pounds of ugly.

[–]Hang10Dude29 points30 points  (1 child) | Copy

I really have a lot of problems with the red pill. Mostly the posts that sound as though they are written by angry 17 year old boys.

But you really get it man. Great post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I really have a lot of problems with the red pill.

Then don't check out the red pill. Simple.

[–]MrRexels12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

You know a conversation is pointless when your statements are paragraphs long and the other person it's just single lines.

[–]fingerthemoon-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly what I was thinking. Kinda sounds like fiction though because I haven't known many women who can listen and agree to logic like the woman in this post.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (17 children) | Copy

TRP is hated by women because it reveals their game plan and therefore raises the bar for them. If a guy (SMV =6) raises it to a 8, his girl counterpart (SMV 6) will have to raise hers too to compete.

TRP should be required reading for all boys at age 13.

[–]What_The_Shoe8 points9 points  (16 children) | Copy

TRP should be required reading for all boys at age 13.

Done. I just notched up to 14.

[–]morphite655 points6 points  (9 children) | Copy

Dude how did you find your way to TRP at 14?

[–]MrT-Rex8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy

I'm also 14 this site is filled with people that are underage

[–]morphite656 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

"underage" according to whom? I personally don't see any problem with young men wanting to educate themselves, quite the opposite in fact. I was just curious as to how or why someone so young found their way into the Red Pill.

[–]SunshineBlotters3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Same. Tho I cant wait to see the things someone who learned TRP at 14 will post in 10 years.

[–]CyborgCuttlefish0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The same shit someone who learned it naturally would have, experiences with sexual success.

[–]MrT-Rex1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I didn't imply it as something bad, I thought that you were oblivious to the fact that this site is full of underage people. And to answer your question, I found this subreddit because of 4chan.

[–]wordjedi 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

Good for you! My life would have been so different with just the weight training advice here alone at that age. Seriously, if I had a time machine and could go back and change just one thing, that would be it. (also buy Apple stock in the 1980s, but that counts as two)

Check out this guy for inspiration.

[–]MrT-Rex1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the advice, and the inspiration; Though I'm going to keep being skinny because I have pale skin and a small frame. (I'm asian)

[–]What_The_Shoe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Luck. Just like the rest of us. And if you want to get your facts right, I found it when I was 13.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

Great to read that. You guys are gonna kill it in high school.

[–]What_The_Shoe0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I'm in, and the furthest I've gotten is getting a hot sophomore girl's snapchat and some weights. Small stones build mighty towers, I guess.

[–]InbredDucks2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

How? By being in a Whatsapp group with her and adding her on snapchat? What a mighty alpha pussy destroyer you are!

[–]What_The_Shoe1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I literally own my school. Bitches are all over this dick. #UltraAlfa

[–]InbredDucks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mate you're mistaken, I'm alphaer than you are! So alfa my frame is a hexagon and all the basicbitches from around the world flock to me! #UlTruerAlpha

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Now you know what works with girls so you don't have to spin your wheels. If I was back in high school I would join a sports team and use my sports mates to build my social entourage. It's the easiest way to get noticed and get laid.

[–]the_red_scimitar7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post, one of few that actually adds new value to this sub.

[–]AtlRP14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy

Great post and I second that it should be included in the sidebar.

Also, still blown away that she finally came around to your logic. The hamster must be asleep at the wheel.

[–]Joseph_the_Carpenter31 points32 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds more like the hamster finally got tired of running, but what convinced OPs friend wasn't his argument or reasoning behind anything, she just knew him for a long time and trusted his judgement in the end. She wasn't convinced, she just agreed with him because it was how she feels.

[–][deleted] 26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy

She ran out of arguments and he passed all her shit tests so she gives him trust.

She still hasn't logically accepted TRP.

[–]AtlRP2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. Hamster gonna Hamst.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That hamster would have had to hit warp to overcome this logic though.

[–]sir_wankalot_here8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Or an even simpler explanation she agreed with him just so he stops babbling.

[–]DONT_reply_with_THIS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She probably just got tired of hearing him talk about it and conceded. Look at her responses the whole way through, he's clearly trying way too hard to convince someone incapable of logic something which is time that could be better spent staring at the fucking wall.

[–]StuffaYouFace21 points22 points  (32 children) | Copy

This is sidebar material and should be required reading for any woman (or any anti-TRP person) before they pass judgement on this place.

Thank you.

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points  (25 children) | Copy

I think that women being aware of TRP will make them even more manipulative I'm not sure this is a good idea.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan140 points141 points  (23 children) | Copy

I concur. There's a tone in this thread that "if women could just understand, they'd work with us." No. Just no. Stop. That's wishful thinking. Women will never work with us, because what they want and what we want are similar but different. The way we think, the way we want to do things, the fact women want to constantly fight you for control whilst secretly subconsciously hoping they don't win means we're in a perpetual state of war. (war = maxim 6)

Even OP sounds a little purple pill. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of gold in OP that makes sense, but because he's trying to logic a girl there's a lot of "meet me halfway here" sentiment in his explanation and she doesn't budge a fucking inch. This is testament to the notion women see any attempt at male self-improvement that may possibly undermine their monopoly on social power as nothing but a threat to be thwarted. Women don't want a work in progress they want a winner, the work in progress is ugly, the rage, the insecurity - all of it - bitches aren't cut out for that. TRP is like a machine shop where cars are in pieces being assembled/repainted and whatever, and bitches just be like "I don't want to see that, they're ugly, show me a shiny lambo, that car probably doesn't even start!" Women want the product with the perfect presentation and to be completely ignorant of the underlying layers that go into creating it.

TRP is a fucking hospital for fucked up guys. And guys aren't even allowed to be fucked up, are they? Society fucks men up, they try to do something about it by utilising TRP, and apparently that's a bad thing too. Everything they do is wrong. Bitches come here, pass judgement and then act like they know shit. These women are fucking clueless and their snooping enlightens them not one iota. Where we see progress and catharsis, they are just revolted and trying to get in our heads. Not so they can help us, but in some petty female attempt to outsmart our knowledge of their biology/psych (again, IM MAXIM 6.) A futile endeavour, but there you go.

They don't even try to understand "the WHY" behind TRP. They are just filled with discomfort and suspicion at the thought of men coming together to discuss women and society in the very way that they do. Women do not like the idea of male autonomy, women always want to be in the picture, having a say and influencing men. Men specialise in influencing the world whilst women specialise in influencing men, that's always the way it's been, whether it's been through feminism or using her looks/submission to charm a man into commitment (that's RPW.)

TRP is one of very few places where women have NO POWER WHATSOEVER. And they fucking hate that. No power, lots of "work in progress men" that aren't currently at a "fuckable level," unspoken societal mechanics out in the open being plainly spoken, this shit offends and fucks with them. They can't understand. They can't care. They're not in that fucking world. They're not men so they don't understand the struggle, the grind, the sweat that takes to become a man worth a fuck.

Plus there's the little double standard that's it's fine for her to artificially enhance her SMV, but if you don't "grow up that way," and instead have to consciously try to fix yourself, you're clearly a damaged tryhard rather than a natural and you belong in the beta box society has already assigned you. Women like to stereotype men as bitch boys and fuck boys and they're very black and white about that. They don't want to see any crossover, the mere concept fucks with them epically.

Truth is, women would be happier if men got their balls back and started leading again but they've been brainwashed too and just aren't cognisant of it. It's a huge mind fuck that women are constantly try to feminise men and feed them disinformation that fucks up their chances, but will eagerly fuck any guy who ignores all of that and knows what it takes to be an effective, dominant and successful man. Which is all any man here really wants to be.

The worst thing you can do is show the enemy your play book and trust them to empathise or get on board.

Women are not your friends, but neither are they your competition. They are not your equals, they are your prey. You hunt, and if you know what you're doing, you snag one. You lead the relationship, if you fuck up, there is no relationship. There is no equality and no understanding, there is simply you being a leader picking/attracting/maintaining a relationship with a woman of your choosing. That's it.

People like to think they can use TRP to get a girl and then "just be themselves" but the reality is, the "gaming" (manipulating) never stops. And women will never stop manipulating you, testing you to make sure you're strong/better than them. That's just the way it is.

You all need to accept this instead of hoping otherwise.

If women gave a remote shit about men, life from a man's viewpoint or even helping men, feminism wouldn't be a thing. Open your eyes. We're on our own with this. Woman on TRP will never empathise with us, they are just here to enhance their own manipulation. Women have an edge and they don't want men to take that away from them.

Lucky for them, even a woman knowing about TRP doesn't stop TRP working on her. It's all human behaviour. Women like what they like, they are who they are and they're attracted to what they're attracted to. But we don't need them having any meaningful presence here.

Bitches don't belong in the locker room and they know it that's why they lurk. Women having any say or presence within TRP will be the death of it, just as it was with the seduction sub, askmen, and and all the other previous male spaces that women took over.

All relationships are war, yeah I know that sounds fucked up but just think about it. If it wasn't this thing you had to win and dominate, you wouldn't need TRP because bitches would work with you and not against you. Truth be told, the irony is, bitches only work with you when you're winning - which means dominating life AND them. But they will try to jostle you for power, and if you give in, you sign your own death sentence. Heed me.

[–]Appleseed1233337 points38 points  (6 children) | Copy

This is sidebar material. Please re-post in its own thread. This comment is so well thought out and enlightening that more people need to see it. Thank you.

[–]elcarlosmiguel10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy

it should definitely be its own post

[–]1DRMMR762 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

To be fair, damn near everything IM writes is worthy of its own post.

[–]juliusstreicher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Def. Or, it's own website. Oh, wait...

[–]NecroticFury1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

i also think this warrants its own post.

[–]throwaway-aa20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I echo this. definitely prime candidate for sidebar material

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

I got comfy to read this shit. Holy fuck this was possibly the best comment I've ever seen.

I give you non-faggot gold that doesn't go to the Reddit Cuckministors.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I give you non-faggot gold that doesn't go to the Reddit Cuckministors.

Yeah, fuck gold. There needs to be a "buy this guy whiskey" option. I'd be on board with that.

[–]1DRMMR767 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

No shit IM, if you're ever in the Dallas Fort Worth area of Texas, whiskey is on me. Your posts in particular strike a chord within my mind like few others. Others might like GLO's style or other more, and that's fine. But your blend of "calm and methodical logic when it needs to be plus filthy mouthed straight talk when it needs to be" has been a real help in my transformation from a pathetic shy incel sometimes suicidal bastard to someone I can actually wake up and be happy that I am.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well I live in London, but if I'm ever around the Dallas Fort Worth area I'll let you know. I'm nothing but humbled to have had such a profound effect on somebody. It's an honour.

[–]cesarfd4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a huge mind fuck that women are constantly try to feminise men and feed them disinformation that fucks up their chances, but will eagerly fuck any guy who ignores all of that and knows what it takes to be an effective, dominant and successful man. Which is all any man here really wants to be.

There's a difference between relationships and the everyday life. The situation as it is now is perfect for women, because on their everyday life, what they need the most is preferential treatment. And for that you need uninformed and misguided betas. Tons of them.

They're not men so they don't understand the struggle, the grind, the sweat that takes to become a man worth a fuck.

I believe they do. Women know they are always well treated and respected since the first second they arrive everywhere. They don't need to prove themselves constantly, they just need to exist. If they fuck up, the consecuences are no way near the same.. If they do well, they get twice as much backslapping. They can treat people like shit, they can say stupid things, they can be forever as insecure as when they were 15, etc. That's preferential treatment, and they enjoy it every single day of their lives. Law of the minimum effort.

The more attractive a man is, the more sex he gets and the less preferential treatment he gives. That's fine for women as long as they are not too many of them.

The problem with TRP is that it could increase:

  1. The number of "artificial" alphas. Attractive men that also know deeply the true nature of women. Bad for them because they won't be able to manipulate those guys as they probably could with a natural alpha.

  2. The number of informed betas. And that's when the situation goes critical. Women need betas as much as air because they are the ones that give them preferential treatment and also the ones that will be used after the Wall to raise a family and possibly divorce-rape them if the woman feels to do so.

Try to imagine a western/1st world country full of normal/semi attractive men who know exactly what they don't have to do with women independently of how much sex they get. Oh boy.

[–]DONT_reply_with_THIS3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're absolutely correct. Almost every response he gives is a few sentences to a full paragraph. She responds with an incomplete sentence and he keeps pounding sand writing a full paragraph. Why bother?

[–]fingerthemoon6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dropping the Hammer Of Truth again I see...

This whole thread has got me thinking about how women are often seen as being more complex than men and some say more intelligent or at least more emotionally intelligent. But I don't think this is so.

The reason for this misconception is because what a man wants in a woman is simple but what a woman wants in a man is complex, not that they are intrinsically more complex and we are simple. In fact, men are more complex because we must endeavor to comprehend their psychology and realize the contradictions in what they say/think they want and what they actually want, they simply need to look good. We also must consider everything in the realms of human society if we hope to be in the top 20% breeding stock but they only need to decide what they want (which they have a hard time doing) and that doesn't even affect their breeding chances all that much just the quality of man seed they get. (Even with no desire to procreate these factors subconsciously affect our sexuality and attraction.)

Also, a man must be more emotionally intelligent than a woman and learn to be stoic and control his emotions if he wishes to be successful whereas a woman has no incentive to learn these skills and no requirement to do so. Men are actually the complex ones because we must not only understand our selves but we must understand women. They have no need to understand us.

This is why men should rule society. We have a biological need to understand women but they haven't the same need to understand us and it's nearly impossible for them to do so. That's why men are traditionally the ones who look out for the welfare of the tribe and women only look out for the welfare of themselves.

The reason for all of this sexual dimorphism is easily explained with this simple truth: 10 woman + 1000 men = possible extinction, 10 men + 1000 women = probable expansion. Women will always be more valuable than men to our species but a self-realized and actualized man will know realms of freedom and pleasure that a woman simply cannot obtain.

[–]Dustin_Bromain2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is fucking amazing. Thank you so much.

[–]J_AsapGem2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

well it's like what patrice once said, " you were made fucked up and miserable" peculiar creatures man..even now despite knowing i still struggle with grasping this the " fact women want to constantly fight you for control whilst secretly subconsciously hoping they don't win" just makes you wonder, is it even worth it?

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

i still struggle with grasping this the " fact women want to constantly fight you for control whilst secretly subconsciously hoping they don't win" just makes you wonder, is it even worth it?

Now I guess that really depends on the man and woman involved. Generally speaking, if she isn't hot/submissive enough, she isn't worth it. Personality is rarely part of the equation, as most women aren't interesting enough to be "friend material" so we're looking purely at the sexual/mother qualities here. In most cases the answer is NO. Rarer instances, yes. What you do with that knowledge is up to you. For the family orientated man I know this knowledge presents more conundrum and burden than it does enlightenment. But better to go in with your eyes open than end up sleeping out of your car.

[–]CyborgCuttlefish-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

not really fight for the legalization of prostitution in your country, or help develop realistic sex dolls, a world where men no longer need women thats what were after. An end to the war.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The tribe has spoken. Make this a post.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Awesome comment.

I get so tired of reading sewage here that it just drives me away, and then I'll stumble across a gold nugget like this. Thank you.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Much obliged. I've made it into a thread now, so if anyone else feels the way you do, they can get some of that cool oasis water.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The worst thing you can do is show the enemy your play book and trust them to empathise or get on board.

Exactly! I think we should keep TRP just for ourselves. This is our man space for men who want to improve their lifes and who doesn't care about political correctness.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I don't see why we should seek judgement from haters and women.

Wolves don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep. Or this

[–]fingerthemoon-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm getting tired of TSBSB (this should be side bar) comments. It clutters the thread. If a post gets enough upvotes and the mods see it and think it's side bar worthy, then it will be so. TSBSB comments do nothing to influence this process.

[–]StuffaYouFace0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Is it really that prevalent that you need to bitch about it? There are 30 posts that are the dumbest shit that still get upvoted to the top for every 1 that make this subreddit what we truly know it is. We need to sticky a bunch of these to help drown some shit so we eliminate some of the knee-jerk disregard for this place.

[–]fingerthemoon1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes it's prevalent enough for me to feel the need to comment about. Sticky is different than sidebar and I wouldn't have commented if that was the suggestion.

No need to down vote me. I wasn't attacking anyone specifically just addressing a common trend in hopes others would get it.

[–]StuffaYouFace2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm not downvoting you. It appears others disagree with you as well. Sticky, sidebar anything that adds more value to this subreddit.

I couldn't care less about what what women think of this place but I feel more men could benefit from this place. When I was new I gad to look past the rp rep, the over-abundance of lingo and terms, stupid "i'm a brown guy, how to I fuck white bitches" posts and shitty formatted pdfs/external sites in the sidebar. A post like OPs is simple and to the point. It gives a nice framing device so It comes across as less preachy. I don't just throw "this is sidebar material" on just anything. Only stuff that is actually sidebar worthy. Now after reading your posts and comments you have provided nothing of value like OP has. Maybe help grow this place instead of tearing it down.

[–]Valentine-Toronto 23 points23 points [recovered] | Copy

The first rule about Fight Club is don't talk about Fight Club.

So is the second rule.

Don't talk about TRP with women.

What a waste of time. I want my 15 minutes back.

Edit: The premise is interesting and an exposition on "Men aren't taught how to be attractive. Women are born into it." sounds like it would add value.

But Socratic dialogue with women on these topics just does not work. She did not engage with you, but just served you a fresh shit test after you failed each of her prior shit tests until she friendzoned you at the end.

Explaining is never the correct response to a woman's shit test.

[–]MatrixDream 18 points18 points [recovered] | Copy

Her feet have been cemented into my friend zone for years. I could care less where she puts me in her own head.

[–]GASTON_TONNERRECOQ 20 points20 points [recovered] | Copy

She found out you post here, you confirmed it through conversation, and now she'll gossip about you to someone you care more about, or who has something you want, who will think less of you. Reputation.

[–]MatrixDream 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

She's isolated from any social circle. I'm not really worried about that.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

Listen to him dude. Unless you own your own business or your career thrives on controversy, keep your mouth shut. Even then, most people on this Earth are disgusted by this place. They don't care about any positives you can acquire. They don't care about the logic. They just hear men discussing women in a non-angelic manner and lose their shit. All it takes is one rumor (altered and with redacted information), and your rep is ruined. There are ways to spout TRP in a non-TRP manner or associating yourself with this sub.

This isn't an attack. Your points were great. Just never explain female nature to women. She will either hate you for it, or will claim to understand and go back to her old ways. It's a complete waste of time and can only harm you.

[–]elcarlosmiguel13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

you dont get it.

First if she is isolated from your social circles how has she even discovered you lurk here? does she spend a lot of time with you alone? if she does it will be very dangerous in the future because if you annoy her for any reason she might drop that on anyone you know.

if she is almost never with you, how the heck did she discover? And its probable that someone else will find out since this girl who doesnt know anyone discovered.

im not attacking you dude its just that if people start to know you lurk here it will lower your value a lot.

We all think it cant happen to us but gossip spreads faster than aids

Have you read the post about the 2 bar owners?

[–]fingerthemoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Whats the title of the 2 bar owners post?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why talk to her then? Why even have her in the friend zone? She's unattractive and has no social circle. She adds no value to your life. Cut her loose.

[–]NiceKicksGabe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

and imo, girls are catty anyway. in my experience, if a girl bad-mouths you to another girl, she has basically become your wingman.

[–]AlCapown3d0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How much less could you care?

[–]_Hand_Banana_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I completely understand where you're coming from and sort of the exact thoughts popped in my head. Why try an explain TRP to a woman, that's a waste of time because she will refuse to accept it for what it is. What I did here was pretend that he's talking to a heavy dosed Blue Pill man that refused to take the red one for what it is.

[–]TattiBoy6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

I like your post op, but I also think it's fictional.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

How did she find out you posted here?

[–]MatrixDream 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I was talking about something else I posted a while ago and she looked it up. Pretty sure she already knew the username.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well she's probably going to read this now.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women learning about guys researching this stuff is like them finding out what you look at on pornhub or something. All guys do it and have done it to some degree whether it be through TRP, PUA sites, or just learning game in real life. It's really a natural thing to learn how to attract the opposite sex, just like it is to be potty trained when you're a kid, ride a bike, or learn to swim.

But then there are always those kids who learn that stuff late, or people who never learn how to swim or have a phobia of swimming. TRP helps them learn at a later stage or get over that phobia.

[–]Corndog_Enthusiast2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

First rule of fight club, man.

[–]MatrixDream 6 points6 points [recovered] | Copy

Cat was already out of the bag, just decided to play with it at that point.

[–]Corndog_Enthusiast2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha yeah, I suppose that's fair enough.

[–]1oldredder-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

doesn't matter for a single woman not being pursued

[–]Corndog_Enthusiast0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It definitely matters. If one woman doesn't like you, then she will talk to her friends and share "the juicy details" of why you should be shunned as an "abusive woman-hater".

In this case, OP was already exposed, so he cleared things up and prevented the worst of the gossip.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think men are not angry because thy hate women, but because they love them too much.

[–]fingerthemoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"The opposite of love is not hate but indifference."

[–]marty2k2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

"I don't dress up for men I dress up because I like to feel good about myself. I do it for me," She replied.

Oh man, this brings me back to the old days when I used to actually try and debate this stuff with women.

I said something referring to how women wear make up for others and to appear more attractive, especially men. Cue the "women do it for themselves/because they like it" response. I said I've never heard of a woman who knew she was going to be home all day and doing nothing doll up. And of course, the response was a brilliant "Well, you can't be in every woman's room all the time, you can't know that!". Of course now I know how futile it is to talk about anything like this with women on a logical level.

Anyways, brilliant post. It's obvious this conversation is fake, or at least very heavily edited, but doesn't really take away from the value. Very good stuff.

[–]fingerthemoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are actually dressing largely for social status with other women that's where the "I do it for myself" comes in. Since they think they're doing it for status and not to attract men it's for themselves, but I suspect part of it is to attract men even if they refuse to admit.

[–]1CashFrags2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a great post, your responses were written quite elegantly with whole-hearted intellectual points.

Solid work my friend.

[–]ARUKET4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I like the part where you described a woman's ideal man. Too often on TRP we are told you're either a Machiavellian asshole or beta cucks. I try my hardest to be in between those sort of like how you described. All the good traits assholes have, without actually being fucking rude or mean to people.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah find a good sweet spot, be a Machiavellian Cuck

[–]SkyCakeDodge 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy

Listen, I know this is going against the grain here, but I'm not seeing anyone else mention the elephant in the room. And I'll accept that maybe this is off-topic or against the etiquette of this community possibly, but I'll proceed:

You spoke to this woman in complete, perfect paragraphs. You got your point across perfectly with each point, and at ideal intervals she basically just had one sentence springboards to get you to your next topic. She expertly straight-manned you into saying each point about why this subreddit is so great. Not only that, but right at the end, she came around, and there's a nice little resolution.

I realize that you're coming from the right place, but this very much never happened. This woman would die from having so much straw in her veins. It's literally too perfect and tailored to the subreddit you're posting it to. That said, it's a great post. I just have to call shenanigans on you using quotation marks when you could have just written the essay you wanted to write without claiming a pitch-perfect convo for this demographic fell into your lap.

[–]MatrixDream 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy

This was by far not the exact dialogue. The interaction was more organic, I cleaned it to make the post more geared toward discussion. Her side wasn't as one worded, my side was so articulate, and it continued after the 'nice resolution.' Don't have pics for proof so not sure what else I can say. I just omitted irrelevant parts of the convo for the post.

[–]redzorp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone expects OP to be a perfect screenwriter. Chill out dudes.

Writing human dialog (even from memory) is hard and invariably looks fake when written down, unless you are an experienced screenwriter, journalist or novelist (and even those pros sometimes get it wrong).

[–]TomHicks1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A girl I knew recently discovered I contributed here

How? Did you let slip something?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

When I first came to TRP I was so confused by how the word asshole and Man had become synonymous on this sub. I thought I had to be an absolute Dick to attract women and ended up being incredibly rude (believe it or not, this actually still works way better than being a beta), but finding that delicate balance and actually having the qualities of a man requires a lot of control over ones emotions.

[–]sexomagico1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is honestly one of my favorite posts on here in a long time. Your use of conversation to present your points is very effective and your argument is well structured. The consensus on TRP is right about not telling anyone about these things though. TRP is too much of a mixture between rational thought and punching bags for that.

Still, I think there is need for a story about what men are missing today that should be spread outside of this community. Maybe we are not the ones to do that, but I hope that someday even the general public understands that feminism needs a counterpoint.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is a fucking great post.

Thank you sir, I appreciate you.

[–]nrjk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What's fun about being a 30+ year old male is that I can have this exact conversation with 30+ year old female and they won't fight me on it-they might add some caveats and reasonably tweak certain things, but they generally know it's true. Rather, they hold back smiles as I casually state certain truths about dating/mating strategies. It only gets worse (or better, maybe?) as they get older. My mom had me at 40, so looking back on things, she was RP as fuck. She exposed me to truths about women, their behavior, manipulative tactics, etc.-I was blessed with her "internalized misogyny", so to speak.

[–]bigcitytruth1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

How did she learn that you were on this forum? Did you tell her? Why?

Second, why are you wasting breath reasoning with her? Women have a natural resistance against accepting logic, especially about their own behavior.

Third, are you fucking this woman? If not, why are you wasting hours being around her? She's dragging you down. While I agree with a lot of what you said, it's like discussing philosophy with a dog. The dog will look at you and wag its tail, seemingly listening to you, but it won't understand a damn thing.

[–]MatrixDream 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

We are friends. That's why.

[–]bigcitytruth1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just to make it clear, you voluntarily told a female friend that you post to The Red Pill subreddit, and then discussed the difficulties men face in dating and relationships.

Now let me point you to a recent new thread posted by Red Pill vanguard IllimitableMan, note the headline of the post: https://archive.is/p32mg

[–]LionLaw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some of the points you mention are excellent, but I think it's the comments on them that are to keep in mind

[–]newmeforever5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy

i talk about TRP all the time with one of my closest female friends. We fuck too...

She totally understands where I'm coming from and also understands TRP and believes more men need to learn about it too.

So all your guys' advice not to talk about it with females is stupid. Just dont talk about it to the closed minded ones.

just my $0.02

[–]notrustled10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

She totally understands where I'm coming from and also understands TRP and believes more men need to learn about it too.

I don't know, man. I think it's either that you caught yourself a RP woman or it's that she only SAYS those things because you give her the tingles and thus she's trying to appeal to your beliefs (just acting, and some of them are really good at it). When something is too good to be true - it's usually not true.

Anyways, I'm still gonna keep my mouth shut.

[–]newmeforever1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

This girl in particular knows her and I will never be anything more than friends who fuck from time to time. She lives fairly far away, and we don't see each other very often, but when we do its a sexcapade.

Maybe that factor has a lot to do with it. Not sure. But continue doing whatever you feel comfortable doing.

:)

[–]RedDeadlift0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Living far away definitely helps. It becomes more risky when she's part of your social circle and gossips with others.

[–]MrRexels5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

We fuck too

That's the catch though, when a woman is attracted to you enough to fuck without commitment, you can get away with saying anything and they'll eat it up.

[–]NiceKicksGabe1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

i'm with you, man. i used to spew TRP all over this chick i met on tinder. used to spew my jizz on her afterwards as well.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

don't argue with stupid poeple

[–]Senior ContributorOmLaLa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly speaking, this is by far one of the best articles I've read on TRP this year.

[–]Glennus6260 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Wow, this novel could be summed up with AWALT. Why on earth would you engage in a conversation of logic with a woman? Even if she sees the light, it changes nothing, and she won't stop adhering to AWALT tendencies.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How do women learn about it from day one?

[–]H42 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

If a girl, the day-old baby is swaddled in pink, and the word "beautiful" is constantly cooed at her.

[–]RPmatrix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cool OP bro, it's good to see someone here bother to explain TRP so well, to a female!

What happened after she said;

"Well I know you don't actually hate women, and you've always gotten along with me, so I trust you."

It didn't end there .. did it?

[–]waze920 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good write up.

However, have to echo some of the sentiment here - no need to mention TRP - remember, its 'feels over reals' in the female world: you explained our side logically, but I guarantee she didn't 'feeeeel' right about it

[–]Prattler260 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"I don't dress up for men I dress up because I like to feel good about myself. I do it for me," She replied.

I think this is a great moment to smile, laugh and discontinue the conversation. It's her shit test and her attempt to grab frame. You fail if you continue in her frame trying to defend yourself. Your time is valuable - why waste it?

[–]All__fun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Bro, you wrote this excellent.

I don't know if this was a real conversation, but you were able to articulate your argument so pristine.

My only complaint is this: Fuck having this Argument/Conversation.

It's a waste of time.

[–]youngspeech0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can't agree to your conclusion that women shound not know that we are studying their psychology. The books of Rollo and no more mister nice guy are laying on my table. A plate was at my flat and she saw it and asked about. I said "I found a cure for niceness" and that was it. Later that night we were making out. ;)

Conclusion is: Tell em with confidence what these books are about und explain it to them like they are childreen asking a question.

[–]mymonster8u 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I have twins. Boy and a girl. I think i spend a lot of time teaching my son how to look all freshed out. I dont have much money but I get him the expensive haircut. He mostly wears button up shirts to school so he looks sharp. His nails are always clipped his teeth brushed and has clean expensive shoes and a good back pack. He has an expensive watch and is taught how to speak with respect and encouraged to flirt a little with the girls. (Hes 9) My daughter is the same. We are all in our pjs at home but always dress clean when we go out. You think men dont have mothers or social pressure as children to learn good social skills or dress appropriately? Just because your young friend didnt know how to defend ger argument does not make you correct. Im not saying there is not people with bad hygene but most people are taught how to dress and care that the opposite gender finds them attractive.

[–]MatrixDream 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

My mother taught me how to dress decently. Want to know what guys who dressed nicely in high school were called? Metro or homosexual.

And you missed my main point. You're teaching your son that dressing nicely will attract ladies? You are misguiding him. His girl is going to go fuck the star of the football team in sweatpants and a ripped shirt. You're not teaching him behavior which is what women get wet for. Then again, maybe you do, but in that case, you should be proud of the fact that you are such an outlier from the norm.

[–]readitreddit0-1 points0 points  (14 children) | Copy

This is so true.

I went to an all girls high school, and there was a all boys high school as well. The all girls school I attended was basically a finishing school. We became proper ladies. The all boys school was basically camp. They became disgusting animals.

Now comes dating time.

My girl friends and myself are all professionals. The boys were too lazy and they became social workers, teachers, some are in their late 20s and still don't know what to do. They fail miserably at dating. They have no idea that you aren't done impressing a girl when the girl agrees to go on a date with you. On dates, they say self deprecating things about themselves such as "I'm balding..." or "I'm not good at dieting..." And frankly, it's so unappealing. The lack of confidence in a man is just nasty IMO.

TRP turns boys into men. And the men I've been going out with DESPERATELY need it.

[–]VodkaTankerSpill6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

And what do you have to offer in addition to having a pussy?

[–]fingerthemoon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually found her comment to be affirming. One of the rare examples that It didn't bother me that she needed to state her sex.

[–]readitreddit02 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'd tell you, but since you can't have sex with it, it probably doesn't matter.

[–]VodkaTankerSpill3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

You never know, maybe I'll jerk off to it.

[–]fingerthemoon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oooh, a girl. Are you hot? If you post a pretty picture with TRP written on your boobs in permanent marker I'll pay twice as much attention to you.

Only half joking. Actually thought your comment was validating and don't mind your presence. I didn't sense that you were seeking special treatment from mentioning your gender in this particular instance. It seemed to be relevant. But you must realize that you're gonna get a reaction around here regardless.

So how about that picture? It could be without showing your face. Come on, we want to see boobs with TRP written on them.

[–]Dustin_Bromain0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A chick endorsing TRP? What is this shit

[–]RPmatrix0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The all boys school was basically camp. They became disgusting animals.

Care to elaborate upon why these 'camp men' are "disgusting animals"?

What 'profession' are you in btw?

DO you have any men in your life? It doesn't sound like it from your post

[–]BBB2000-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

I guess self depricating humor or awareness of facts is a lack of confidence ? Sounds like your into delusional pricks

GTFO slut

[–]readitreddit07 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Guess I hit a nerve with you!

How am I into delusional pricks? I'm just not interested in a guy that is going to complain about his insecurities on a first date. It's a huge turn off. Since he did bring light to his insecurities, it makes him look weak, and that he has a hard time accepting his own flaws. A first date is not a pity party.

If you went out with a fat chick, and she started making self depreciating jokes about her obesity, what would you think of her?

[–]BBB2000-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

i think that is a great quality if a fat chick acknowledged she was fat. 100 percent. It's the biggest thing i look for, women that don't irrationalize hamster ...i.e. delusional about the facts like you look for in a guy

u got it backwards idiot. Someone who won't acknowledge their own flaws is hiding an insecurity, like someone who can't admit they aren't funny so they act try hard because they believe they are funny. Not having an insecurity is accepting your current state.

guess who would pass your shit test better ? probably the guy you are making fun of. If you shit tested this guy you think is a fag about his insecurity, he would pass. He would just be like yeah, i know, and he wouldn't get upset because hes cool with it not insecure.

this is the problem with women - you look way too further into a very small detail - and write off a man over something that may not even be close to what you are stereotyping.

if one simple statement of someone accepting their flaw automatically sets off "weak" in you - then your just a fucking moron.

Your attracted to dark triad guys. You also have trouble finding men you like and are single and unsatisfied because you next guys over the most inconsequential things. Your scum, i'm a misogynomist and i have little respect for you. now get off this board and go fuck a chad

[–]fingerthemoon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Self-deprecation in women can be attractive to men but it doesn't work the other way around unless you have extremely high smv that is obvious and apparent and she can tell that your just trying to be humble.

[–]redzorp1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Jeebus.

The girl was just being honest, which we should all take as valuable intel.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh the invaluable intel here.

She lost me at :

We became proper ladies.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Succinct and beautiful. Sidebar this under a section "why TRP?" (Along with that historic post by archwinger: "men are not happy")

[–]BruceIsTheBatman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like a bunch of excuses. This subreddit is full of excuses. I deleted a post which I thought came across and a little harsh and unappreciative of the struggles boys go through to become a real man. Then I realized that the more your rationalize the reasons for your failure, the harder it becomes to cross that line. So tell yourself, there is no excuse. I should be a natural, I should stop being afraid and I should stop recounting all the lies I've been told. From now on, I'm going to live like there is no excuse for not being the man I want to be, for bitterness. I'm no hamster, I'm the real thing.

[–]I_see_bad_Gk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Doesn't mean they have it any better. Everything we get is earned, everything they have is given.

[–]le_reddit_sjw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Eyeliner doesn't give the appearance of longer eyelashes... that's mascara. Just had to correct that...

[–]NotRAClST2-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Im gonna disagree. Sometimes women and men dress up out of respect for the occasion and not to attract pple.

[–]throwaway_holla-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy

It just so happens a complete asshole holds many of the traits you are attracted to. Let's isolate those and put them into a kind person.

A kind person? TRP is unabashedly about cruelty or selfishness, not kindness.

[–]MatrixDream 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I don't think how I can explain how wrong you are without writing a whole other post about it. It's very fragile balance of certain characteristics. Being mean isn't one of them. It never was.

[–]throwaway_holla0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Being mean is prevalent in TRP. Are you kidding? It's all over the place.

One of the tenets of TRP is maintaining frame and holding to your boundaries. The problem is, TRP espouses doing that through selfish strategies. By definition that is mean. Mean - according to the actual definition, not some people's interpretation - means "unfair."

I don't think how I can explain how wrong you are

Sorry about your inadequacy, bro!

[–]Andress1-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is bullshit.We live in an era with a huge SMplace bubble of the value of the women.And this is because of the population boom,the excelent transportation system and telecomunications(internet).

Women have now more options than ever,countless men courting them compared to the past.

In a normal state you dont have to learn how to attract women and be attractive,it just happens because of who you are.



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