Summary: There is not a lot of advice out there if you get a stranger pregnant other than, "Get ready to get fucked for 18 years with child support." I slipped up once and had sex with a girl I had met one time previous. 13 days later she called me and told me she was pregnant. This is a simple story of what I did next. What's the next best thing you can do? (Italics are chapters from 48 Laws of Power). The laws in your state vary; so what happens in Indiana may not work in your state.
The First Conversation My daughter's mom called me early in the morning to tell me she was pregnant. She asked me what she should do. This question is testing you in a lot of different ways. Are you going to freak out? Are you going to try to convince her to get an abortion? The correct answer is to say, in a calm and confident manner, for her to start taking prenatal vitamins. If you want an abortion you have weeks to talk about it. This is an easy question to knock out of the park. If she decides to have a child she can NEVER use against you that you wanted an abortion. When shit goes downhill she will throw you under the bus to everyone she knows. Give her as little ammunition as possible. Reason: You will need to maintain frame in a way that you've never had to for a length of time that seems impossible. When you know what she's saying is not true it makes it easier to suffer the slings and arrows. In my case I could tell immediately that abortion was not a live option and that I would be left in the dark for the next 9 months if I brought it up. But I should add that I would never abort a child as a form of birth control
Week 1 - Start saving 20% of your income for a safe new car. Well, that's what I told by daughter's mom. I told everyone that actually. It would have been great, but I knew then that it was unlikely. Really what I was doing is saving 20% of my income to see what child support was going to be like AND for attorney fee's. I spent every dime so far. Start saving immediately. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
On Child Support - That money is simply no longer yours. Do not argue about it or whine or try to get out of it. She might even tell you she doesn't want it. Do not take the bait. Force her hand. Require her to take the money. There are other methods to avoid paying your full legal obligation. But you MUST play the perfect courtier from the very beginning. Your end goal is to have a congruent story. If you want to argue philosophically about how it's immoral or whatever post on this site. In America It's like arguing with gravity. It makes you look like a fucking moron. My strategy was to just immediately give her the ground. No need for her to fight it. Why? Assume Formlessness. In the future she will try to hurt you. She will have learned a lot about what hurts you. You will never be hurt the way a pregnant woman can hurt you. She has so much power over you (due to the laws in this country) that you will break. A year later she is still using what she knows hurts me to try to hurt me now. Fortunately I Controlled the Options.
Week 2 Tell her that you're getting a paternity test through the courts. Not a walgreen's kit. She will understandably be outraged at the implication. Tell her early before you guys get to know each other and just say casually that you two are strangers. Ask her if she trust you 100% already. Tell her it's a legal requirement for setting up child support (half true). When I did this, it really wasn't that big of a deal.
Week 3-5ish Plan all the way to the end and Know who you are dealing with Pregnancy amplifies whatever is wrong with a girl. Obviously she is not a princess if she hooked up with a stranger. It should put a huge spotlights on her specific brand of crazy. Between September and October I knew her fairly well. I knew she wanted to be a "heroic single mom." I knew she had an avoidant attachment style. She was an insane control freak. She gave me faux options to manipulate me into thinking I had a choice in the matter. She told me before we knew the gender that my child would not have my last name and that there was nothing I could do about it. The anguish and pain that caused me could not be hidden. I told her that we were not in agreement on this issue but she told me that I would have to deal with it and tough shit. My brain said she was right, there was nothing I could do because I was powerless. Use the Surrender Tactic: Transform Weakness into Power and than later Play a Sucker to Catch a Sucker – Seem Dumber than your Mark In any dispute where you have no power you shouldn't argue with her, just state that you are not in agreement on this issue and drop it. You will pay an attorney to argue with her in the future.
6 months of hell I went to every doctor's appointment she invited me to. I did everything she wanted including signing a lease with her. It was her idea, but I saw how I could use it to my advantage. I think at this point she was trying to get me to say no to something so she could go tell everyone want a terrible dude I was. But my rationale was this: Best case scenario when she moves out after a year I could argue that child lives at that house and is off breast milk, emergency placement prior to court is usually the residence that the child knows best. Worst case scenario - I had signed a lease with a girl I wasn't even dating, that's how invested in my child's life I was. Make sure you can afford to pay for the entire rent yourself before signing the lease. MAKE SURE SHE SIGNS THE LEASE. My daughter's mom tried to get out of signing it. Nope, her name is on that shit. Which will prevent her from claiming you raped her.... but who would do that.
Last three months- Mom moved out due to me being a manipulative, uncaring, slob (her words). We had one fight while living together and nothing she said was true. She was just looking for a reason to move out. She refused to talk to me for the last three months of the pregnancy. I really think her issue is that she knew she wasn't controlling me. We didn't talk for three months.
In those three months I focused on Concentrating my Forces. I had told my daughter's mom that my parents were moving here to help us out. This has helped me so much in my fight to get visitation so far. My sister lives in town, my brother lives in town, and now both my parents were available at all times to baby sit. I also went lawyer shopping over the three month period. www.avvo.com I talked to five different lawyers.
I make this sound easy: I haven't mentioned about how my health declined due to stress. It was the worst when I signed the lease with her. Huge gamble unknown whether it was foolish or if it would pay off. My vision started changing every single day (Eye doctor tried saying I had type II diabetes), Bald spots appeared in my beard, blood pressure went into type II hypertension. I spent more on doctor bills in six months than my entire adult life. Hang in there man. Find a support group, coworkers, family members. Lean on people but remember that they want to see a success story. Females at work always love to hear about a father fighting to stay in their childrens' lives.
You have no rights Before the paternity test you have no rights. Zero. You must continue to use the surrender tactic. You are literally a random stranger to that kid. Do not sign a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity. If you have a good lawyer he delivered the court order BEFORE your child was born to do a paternity test. I was the father by the way.
Mom Fights Back Oh man she will fight as if her life depends on it. Her maternal instinct to protect that child from people she doesn't trust/like is going to make her behave like a crazy person. She tried to fight the paternity test. She didn't let me see my daughter for three weeks over father's day and then acted like it was my own fault. Bite your tounge. You still have a ways to go. Do NOT fight with the mom. Ever. You arguing with Mom is a waste of breath. You pay an attorney to fight her. Win through your Actions, Never through Argument No matter what she did to me I didn't let it phase me. I made sure the courts knew what she did so that we could have a congruent case of her denying me visitations. The day I was declared the father through the paternity test Mom filed serious endangerment charges against me. At first she was alleging that I raped her. But that lease she signed with me destroyed that option. My attorney BCCed me on emails so I basically read his response as, "are you joking? This is a joke. She signed a lease with him." So she went with a whole shit ton of mud instead. None of it true. The courts MUST investigate so don't take it personally ($$$ $$ because of the Children $$$$). Play the perfect courtier. Remember you don't care about money, only about bonding with your child. My Attorney was 1500, the supervised visits cost me 1200$, the guardiam ad litem cost me 1400$. I never brought up that she filed this, never yelled at her for it. Just imagine you're playing chess. She made a move, it's your job to anticipate it and counter it. It's easy to counter.
Guardiam Ad Litem She is the only person you care to win over. Play the perfect courtier. Play the perfect courtier. Play the perfect courtier. The GAL relies on the supervisor that is watching you with your daughter. Treat the supervisor like an old friend. Listen to their stories of other "crazy" parents. Mom won't like the supervisor because she's not in control, someone else is in control. To the GAL, compliment Mom on her mothering abilities. Never trash talk her, don't ever say anything emotionally charged about her. Say you're only complaint is that she won't let you or your family see your daughter. Say you just want to be equals as parents. I remember distinctly saying, "four hours a week is just not enough, it's just not enough" to which she echo'd me. Mine had a questionnaire for me to fill out and I spent 8 hours writing and rewriting it until it was the perfect. I had painted a picture, that was true, whereby Mom has mud on her by the end and yet you never saw me throw anything and my hands remained clean.
By the next court date I had the Guadian Ad Litem telling me she was going to try to get me 50/50 joint custody. It helped me out a lot that I actually liked both the supervisor handling my case and the GAL. I knew immediately they would be able to see through Mom's ridiculous behavior if I just continued to maintain frame and play the perfect courtier. I could tell they were both good people. Your mileage may vary and you will get GAL who are in it for the money. My attorney went out of his way to get this GAL. I didn't do this at the time but absolutely research reviews online for the GAL. The GAL is actually more important than the attorney you get. Tell your attorney that you want a GAL who has a reputation for acting in the child's best interest. The supervisor handling my case also if you talk to her will gossip about the reputations of all the attorneys involved in your case.
False Allegations First the serious endangerment charges, next Mom will record every way that you're not doing a good job as a parent (in her mind). Yes it annoys you to have to answer to everything you do with your time but it's annoying the Guardian ad litem too. My favorite thing to say to the GAL is this, "She has never brought it up to me, if I'm doing something wrong I want to know. Why wouldn't she tell me?" Play the perfect courtier. When I won my first major battle I got the best false allegation of the year. Mom came over and tried to start a fight with me. She had nothing to go on and I have now never argued with her for 15 months. Why would I start now? Long story short she went postal while I remained calm. She started hitting my door, etc. She left and called the police. Police showed up to ask me some questions. The moment you prepare for finally happens (you are prepared for the police getting called on you when you start winning in court right?). I simply tell him I don't answer questions without an attorney. Bye bye sir. That was now 7 days ago and I've heard nothing from the police. This is where maintaining frame comes into play. It's so important, remember you're doing it for your child.
Assume Formlessness/Control the Options Mom wants to hurt me. But she never correctly figured out how. She thought the only option for hurting me was to deny me visitations but that's because I controlled her options. I put her in a position where her choices were to not attack me and let me visit my daughter and thus I win, or to attack me and (when I'm exonerated) it makes her look bad and thus I win. She had a lot of options to waste my money and give me tons of time with my daughter (when I was paying someone to supervise me). This would have made her look good and done a great deal of damage to me. She never did it because she didn't realize it would hurt me. From the beginning I acted like money was not a big deal and would constantly just spend it in front of her like I had an endless supply of it. I would tell stories that carried the message that IDGAF about money.
Present day By this point no one in court believes her anymore. I went into court thinking that she was going to get to file an order of protection but I think that even her own attorney must have advised against it. I had my first overnight with my daughter. This week. I'm confident that she tarnished her reputation and they see that she's just hyper controlling and will fabricate things about me to maintain that control. She doesn't know how to hurt me or control me (well controlling me would be easy, she just could try being nice to me). The best part is that soon I will have 50/50 custody which reduces my child support obligation (that thing I supposedly don't care about). My attorney says that he has gotten surname changed and that there is a good likelihood (depending on the judge) that this also will come about.
Guys you can win in court. It's hard and unfair and we're not used to being discriminated against so obnoxiously. We're not used to being guilty until proven innocent. I constantly let Mom think she's smarter than me. I play dumb constantly with her. I never engage her. I pretend like I don't know what's going on and that my attorney doesn't communicate with me very well. I pretend like it's no big deal that she says crazy stuff about me. I never ever ever ever gloat or rub it in or try to hurt her back. She's a child, you're an adult. If she knows what's going on in your brain the fight will never end. Moves and countermoves guys. It can be done. It will affect your health. I jumped out of an airplane and was so depressed I felt absolutely nothing. There were days I woke up where I did not think I could do it; I didn't think I had the stamina for this type of warfare. The toxicity from Mom was that intense. The odds seemed to be stacked against me to too great of a degree. You can do it if you must.
Edit: By the way, I forgot to mention this in the beginning but I really always "hoped for the best, plan for the worst" That was my strategy. If you read through all of this you'll really see that it's obvious. I genuinely hoped that Mom would figure out that I have my family in my best interest and that she could trust me. Every step of the way I gave her the option of doing the right thing with no repercussion. She just never took that option; I don't harp on it as it's probably never going to be relevant. But as you try to win the hearts and minds of others make sure that you emphasize how you hope for the best and what you're doing (saving for a safe car, signing a lease with a stranger to raise your child together, going to all doctors appointments, etc.)
2nd Edit: I should also mention this guide pertains to a non-substance abusing mother. This is about getting your rights from a mom with no real issues. I am so fortunate and happy that I don't have to worry about any actual harm going to my daughter. Like if you remind yourself how much worse things could be, it makes it easier to remain stoic in the face of America's court system.
3rd Edit: Some typos's etc. I have a paternity test guys. It's in the story. Yes, I'm intelligent. I am the type of guy that would never make a mistake. I was drunk and I honestly just fucked up. If it happened to me, it'll probably happen to other guys out there so I wrote this guide. If you don't want to be a part of your child's life than you don't really need a guide. Personally I couldn't leave my daughter to be raised without a father knowing everything I know about TRP.
No. Thank You TRP A lot of you guys are thanking me for writing this. I'd like to say instead thanks to all of you. The only, ONLY, reason I was prepared for all the false allegations, the toxicity, the back stabbery, the nonsense, the insanity, and the court system was you all and this community. Very few guys naturally would ever think the way I was forced to think. I was never flatfooted on ANYTHING she did because I was able to anticipate it months in advance (false rape allegations, domestic disputes with the police, etc) and thanks to you guys I knew how important maintaining frame was throughout all of this. So while many of you don't agree with everything I did or get focused on the one time in my life I had unprotected sex (with a stranger), I don't mind the criticism because I never said that this guide was the ONE way to do it. There is probably a better strategy. I did waste a lot of energy on things that were absolute wastes of time. I'll try to write updates in the future to talk about what happens with Mom through the years.
Thank god for someone like you exist. Thanks for sharing your story and the lessons you've learnt from them. Wow, just wow. Fucking masterpiece.
Agreed. This was easily one of the best posts I've seen out of this sub. Thank you, OP
I think it needs a greater emphasis on abortion. It's a case-by-case basis obviously, and if you have the baby, being the one who pushed for an abortion will come back to haunt you, but I'd personally take my chances. If you are having unprotected sex with a stranger, she's probably somewhat progressive. That doesn't mean feels aren't going to take over once she gets pregnant for real, but it does mean that there's a decent chance she's open to the idea of an abortion.
It's a perfectly legitimate and safe (especially compared to child birth) procedure. It's the perfect solution to your problem. I understand moral objections, but for those of us who think completely logically I believe that if we had statistics they would show that overall you get a better outcome if you at least attempt to nip it in the bud.
I'd disagree with this statement. Progressives are WAY more likely to be using some kind of birth control intelligently because it's not stigmatized for them.
It's "Abstinence only" people you need to be concerned about, those are the ones who aren't going to be on BC for religious reasons, and they're the ones who are gonna get drunk and bareback you. Those are the ones you're never, ever, no way in how gonna get an abortion out of.
I know a lot of left leaning women who don't even have SO's that are on BC for reasons other than sex. A lot of conservative women won't even entertain that option due to misinformation and social stigma.
This is a valid criticism. I'm used to the city, where it's assumed that any and every female you find in a bar is fucking around, using BC, and (at least theoretically) open to abortions. Take this discussion elsewhere, or get unlucky and find a tourist or the rare ultra religious city girl and you could be fucked.
Lol man you're in for a surprise if you think all those women are on BC. Or are open to abortions themselves.
living in Baltimore now 4/10 of the girls ive hooked up with here have been on the pill.
Edited: Ages 22-35 different ethnicities and within the last 16 months.
I know a lot of women who can't handle routine tasks either.
it's your life, do what you want
BC doesn't necessarily mean "routine tasks."
The IUD is as good as it gets for female contraception and it requires literally no maintenance.
Mine uses one, I wholy agree...
But you'd think those 5 year checkups would be a no brainer. I physically have to take her down there, because excuses are easy, and work is hard.
Its just a longer timeline
I'm against abortion, but all for birth control.
If you don't want a kid, wrap it and make sure you don't get one in the first place.
They may be progressive, but they want it to be their decision.
Otherwise your ex girlfriend goes in without you, gets the abortion, then blames you for it and tarnishes your name to anyone who will listen.
I'd rather she do this than have the kid, raise him/her to hate me, and collect monthly checks (that only go towards her weekend fund anyway). I can move. I can't dodge child support and adult responsibility.
I will admit, at first I was heartbroken. I lost my child and the woman I thought I'd marry. Then I found TRP. And now it doesn't hurt so much, because it could have been so much worse.
knock a girl up, try it out, post your field report.
I'll read it, damned right
Thing is if a girl is willing to have an abortion she will bring it up, even if its one of those sortakindanot bringing it up situations.
If a girl isn't willing to have an abortion, nothing you can say will change her mind.
Ehh, alcohol for example can trump morals in the moment, it'd be easy to make a mistake. If I knocked up a girl, I don't think I could feel right about pushing for an abortion. In fact I'd probably object even if it was her inclination, I simply don't think it's right to give a human being life and the take it away. Both myself and the mother would need to be held accountable for our actions and raising the child is the only option I would consider.
As someone in the medical field, I simply can't make the moral distinction between birth control and abortion. That mass of cells doesn't exactly have feelings yet, so why does it matter if you stopped it from existing before or after it started to form? That's an entirely different debate though, and you're of course free to have your opinions. Personally, I think the world is a better place with a family structure. Abortion makes that possible despite our crazy hookup culture, and that makes it the morally correct option for me.
Many abortions occur late enough in development that I don't think it's justifiable to destroy the fetus. I suppose if it was the first or early second trimester but really once the brain functions start happening, it is alive for all intents and purposes. The way I see it is this: we have to keep so many vegetables alive just because it's the law, people that would honestly probably to prefer to die if they could speak, but human life forms with potential and a future they haven't gotten to see the light of day and don't have any choice must die due to the mistakes of their parents, just seems backwards to me.
Like I said, you're free to have your opinions, and I respect your line of reasoning. It's not how I feel, but that's why it's a source of debate. There's no right answer here.
Was banging this stripper and the condom came off as I was pulling out, had to reach in and yank the mother it was so deep inside her. Spilled quite a bit, we just got "plan b" and thankfully nothing came of it.
Honestly I would go insane...
Other option:
I was under the impression that in France a girl name anyone as the father and no one can do anything about it.
Not at all, if the father doesn't go to the mairi to testify that he is the father, the child will be fatherless. The mother cannot give a random name.
On the other hand, if you declare a child as yours and later you find out it's not, for the french law you will remain the father for life. in order to protect "The Peace of the French Families"
Thanks for clarifying that for me. That makes a lot more sense
Wait, so you frogs can just have bastards with complete and utter impunity?
Am I reading this right?
France seems really awesome all of a sudden.
Let's just say the French government realised that nation wide paternity tests would destroy the fabric of French society, since pretty much everyone is fucking around. They even call it a "cinq à sept" (5 to 7).
Love the 3rd option. Sounds like a grand plan by itself already.
Would you share more information about this shell corporation and country? Pm is fine if you want to keep privacy but what you wrote sounds like something a friend will really need soon
Basically there are a number of countries (google since i'm not giving personal info) that have extremely low to zero corporate tax rates. If you start a company in country X with 5% corp tax and you employ yourself as an employee with the minimum wage you can easily avoid the 40-60% tax of most west european countries.
And in a number of those countries corporate privacy law is very strict so that is extremely difficult and/or expensive to ascertain the owernship of a certain company. Not something a local judge has access to or can even easily be aware off.
5% is silly high, IoM has 2%. The double itish/dutch loophole was closed, but there are others like it. Best part is there's nothing illegal about it.
In America you can't do this though can you ?
Cmon man, you can't really say so and not say how to set up a shell corporation
Hypothetically what is the advantage of this since you pay based on income and you're still going to have a W-2 from your current place of employment. I might just be stupid for not grasping this...
Well, assume you make 100K profit with your company as an independent.
In France:
You will pay 33% tax on the 100K +social charges so you'll have roughly 60K left
Company in country X that employs you for a salary of 10K:
Your company pays the 5% tax on the 90K profit in country X= 85K left. You pay taxes on your salary of 10K in your country of residence= 9K left.
So in total you would get to keep about 92-93K compared to 60K doing everything in France.
Thanks, is there one country where it has low tax, high privacy, and simple method of setting up from abroad?
Yeah, I got "a friend" that is extremely interested as well. Any info would be appreciated.
Which country could this be, for an example?
Courts in France can order paternity tests.
What's against the law is men doing paternity tests on their own if they suspect cucking.
Number 3 is right no matter if you roll about town getting sluts pregnant left ot right or live in complete chastity. Your wealth should ALWAYS be in gold or offshore companies. Bitcoin is acceptable if you're willing to gamble.
Not only women are happy to take your wealth, the government is also, for the smallest infraction. I'm from Scandinavia and the governments here will absolutely steal everything you've got if they think they can get away with it. Speed traps can cost you tens of thousands of €€s. The law has been written to make everything illegal, so it's very easy for them to go after you if they feel to. Protect your wealth or be forever paying the mob.
You've saved a ton of sad, angry fuckers here a ton of heartache, money, pain and time by writing this. If you make a mistake, you play the game you've signed up for, and you play it fucking perfect.
Good job and kudos to you for how calm you stayed the entire time.
I really hope everyone is paying attention to one crucial detail: OP's decision to play the game from a Machiavellian fashion literally from the moment he discovered he was a father. No emotional reaction, no attempts to plead and play for sympathy or mercy; just cold, ruthless game tactics to win. Understand that in situations like these the other person is no longer a human being, but an object that threatens your autonomy and well-being.
Stoicism saved your life, friend. Very impressed with how you handled it. The best thing you could have done was put on a rubber before nutting in her, the second best thing was what you laid out in this post. This is sidebar material.
Well, he did react, but was smart enough not to let it show.
I definitely agree, this belongs in the sidebar.
I also hope people realize this is the mindset one has to take in a divorce if one was unwise enough to get married in the first place.
And more men need to realize that this is the default mindset for most women as they are con-artists by nature.
No emotional reaction, except for all the extreme stress he put himself under. Did you even read the full post dude?
An emotional reaction isn't the same thing as experiencing emotions. Everyone experiences emotions, no one's a robot. How one reacts in response to emotional stimuli is what determines the outcome.
An emotional response in OP's case would have been to try to bargain and reason with her. To ask for an abortion up front. It's the instinctive response. Instead, by fighting that immediate reaction and taking a tactical overview of the situation OP came out way ahead.
That is the crux of stoicism.
I agree with what you've said and stress that it must not be sidebar material for that very purpose. If this post gets popular, how long until word gets out about what we're doing? It's better we have a few thousand people know of this post than potential single mothers using it against us.
i'd doubt that, also it's not that easy to pull off :S
During my second divorce ( I am not a smart man) I did as you mentioned with the GAL. Not as a strategy but just as dumb luck.
My ex hates having a man "controlling" her. So she always balked at being told when to be at appointments and that she had to explain her actions in a rational way. And by balked I mean eventually exploded on a court appointed attorney who she didn't realize was deciding in what home it would be best for my daughter to live. I remainder calm and stoic with my hands folded calmly on the tabletop. I mention this because it was in his report to the court of my calm collected and rational demeanor. And her combative nature and aggressive body language (clenched fists, raised voice, and getting red face enraged). It was so awesomely Machiavellian to give the GAL the little eye roll and sigh in court as the ex began ranting. Sort of here we go this is what I deal with. Watching a 275 pound feminist hamplanet have a meltdown in court is a glorious thing. Subtlety pointing out to her that a judge, her attorney, my attorney, and the guardian ad litem were four MEN discussing/deciding her future was like tossing a cup of gasoline into a bonfire.
I was granted temporary custody of my five year old daughter after jumping through so many hoops I can't even begin to type them for you. Since I showed that I had the stable work history, had a safe reliable vehicle, a safe home environment with support network and was a gracious courtier to all agents of the court my temporary order became permanent after a year of fighting.
I am technically the school placement parent in a 50/50 shared parenting set up. And yes, I receive child support. My ex gets every other weekend visits plus holidays and we flip living arrangements during the summer. From the last day of school until the last weekend before school starts she lives with her mom and I get the weekend visits. I threw that idea to the courts and it became our agreement.
Of course over the last 12 years I have so many stories of dealing with the child support agencies it would make the MRA's weep. The most telling of course would be the ex being over 6000$ behind on child support at one point and not going to jail for child support by crying in court.
TLDR; Guys can win in family court but it is super tough and expensive. Remain stoic and document EVERYTHING possible.
And Never Get Married. You do not have it figured out, trust me.
Would the legal situation with your daughter have been much better if you hadn't been married to her mother?
No. I would have had no rights at all period
What are you doing associating yourself with that?
Self esteem was at rock bottom. Scarcity mentality and access to a vagina. Looking back at your life through a red lens can be tough
How exactly did you do that?
Iirc we were about to go back into the courtroom after mediation. I held the door for her like a good little beta and with slumped shoulders and a sad voice said something like oh well I guess I have to do whatever these guys say.
I don't get it, the mom of your kid pays YOU the child support?
Save yourself a lot of pain and listen to this man. He's been through Hell and back. Speaking from experience, false allegations can destroy a man.
One idea I'd have is to keep a video camera handy for when things get fiery. Her mom comes over trying to start a "fight" and call the cops? Video camera is ON, and she doesn't pass through the door.
Of course, know your state's recording laws.
Security cameras on house. They are so fucking cheap and I don't think there is any state in America that does not allow them.
"... but by 2025 this had disappeared because of the wide availability and rapid uptake of Vasalgel."
I'm getting to the age now where kids are becoming something I actually want instead of something I dread... but goddamn our sons are going to have it good with products like Vasalgel hitting the market.
Vasalgel is arguably the most crucial potential development in men's rights. Condoms are only 91% effective according to the CDC. I will be the first in line as soon as it becomes available.
Would you not just get a vasectomy now?
There is the potential for it to leave you permanently sterile, and there can be lots of undesirable side effects. So I'm at a 'maybe'
If I had never heard of Vasalgel i probably would have already had the vasectomy, but knowing a superior fix is right around the corner it's tough convincing myself to go the surgical route. I may well get a vasectomy anyway, I just have reservations.
im in the maybe category too. Dont want to be permanently sterile as the decisions still out on whether I ever want kids, but ive not felt any desire yet... plus the increased risk of prostate cancer scares me more
I did. Didn't go well.
I was trying to wait for Vasalgel, but development is moving too slowly on it and I ran outta time.
Why didn't it go well? Any additional info would be very helpful for those of us considering it.
I don't know if I missed something, but the rate that project is moving at it won't be coming out anytime soon.
According to the company website they are looking at small human trials in 2016, large trials in 2017, and bring it to market in 2018.
This is of course subject to public funding which is far from guaranteed. I plan on donating some cash to help the project because I want it sooner than later, but you are right the public release is certainly not imminent.
Thanks I didn't know that. That's actually a lot closer than what I originally thought. Still not holding my breath for anytime before 2020 though.
Uh CDC says condoms are only 82% effective....
Edit:
http://www.cdc.gov/media/images/releases/2015/p0407-teen-pregnancy.jpg
Hopefully with condoms as well. Don't want sti infection to go up.
As cold hearted as this may seem, this is TRP and we value truth. Some of us have absolutely no intention of having any children whatsoever and would not desire visitation or any other sort of interaction with either the mother or the child. As awesome as this writeup is, it seems to be written from the standpoint of wanting to gain custody, keep visitations, etc.
Would you recommend anything different if a man was operating from that standpoint of wanting none of these things and a complete lack of desire to have anything to do with the entire situation for the rest of his life?
Beyond getting a vasectomy of course, which I've already done. But some men who have no desire to have children may not have done that yet.
Risking millions of downvotes, here's what i did. It worked like a charm. Tell her calmly: "I do not want a child. If you decide you want to have it, this is the last conversation that we are ever going to have. If a judge tells me to pay money to you or the child, I will deposit the money religiously in the account that they tell me. However, I will never, ever meet that child or see you again". She will not have that child.
I see you listen to Leykis 101. Were you upfront with the chick that you never wanted to have children?
Absolutely. She even told me that I souldn't worry because she was sterile. Turned out to be bullshit.
If it's your child, your income is already committed, at law, to supporting this child.
If, after recognising that this is the case, you choose not to gain any benefit from doing so, that is your Perogative. I see OP as a 'have lemons, make lemonade' scenario.
The Earth is a big place with varying jurisdictions/laws and a wider range of options than you imagine. Even solutions as radical as completely disappearing are not off the table, nor as difficult as they seem at first. Sure, they all have downsides, much depends on your priorities. OP's first priority was participating in his child's life... but that's not necessarily for everyone.
When my friends mother divorced his father, the father moved to some Asian country for this exact reason. When y friends turned 18 his dad moved to California with his new wife and kids lol.
Had a scare myself once and that was what was going through my head. Life would basically be over with a shift from expectations for reality being large and in a negative enough direction to warrant a drastic option. I honestly would strongly consider trying to disappear.
If she doesn't want an abortion then play the good guy role while plotting your next moves. Empty out the bank account go to another country and just start the fuck over
Disappearing to other countries is a nice option to dodge this bullet.
Filipino OFWs(Oversees Workers)have been doing that for quite a while already.
And none is saying it's for everyone, so stop arguing with ghosts
Give a fake name/number to strangers in a bar.
Always carry condoms.
Do not get overly drunk/high. Its never worth the damage to your health and life.
Number 1: Vasectomy AND condoms.
But honestly though if my genes are going to be passed on like in OP's case, wouldn't you want to do the alpha thing and give it the best chance to go on and pass yours on?
If the child is a boy it's gonna get fucked up by BP society and a single mum. Likewise with a girl.
I honestly don't think this would work well anymore. A halfway decent PI would find you, especially given as much surveillance and imaging and social media that's out there.
For instance, at the bar you met her, you'd have to pay 100% cash all the time, and hope they don't have cameras.
If there was ever a thread to remind guys to wrap it up, it is this one. Holy hell.
Paying cash is a good thing to do anyway. Why trust random waitresses with your card infomation? Ready to bounce a girl to the hotel? Throw cash down and you're out. Avoid paying a fee to spend your own money with a debit card. Avoid paying interest with a credit card.
Most places don't store video forever. Longest I have seen in a non-secure facility is two weeks. And thats considered way more than necessary. By the time she realized she was pregnant, and realized that you weren't going to amswer the voicemails she left on your burner phone, and gets a PI on the case months could have passed. And if a PI, or hell even a cop, walked into my business without a warrant asking for footage, I would tell them to fuck off.
And this doesn't have to work 100% of the time, just the one time you get a bish pregnant. So, you are right. A good investigator could find you the day after, if he got lucky. After a few weeks, that trail gets pretty cold, pretty quick.
If you are lucky, she wanted another guy to think it's his child and you just let it be.
The French Foreign Legion. Five years of service, a name change, a new identity. Beyond something drastic (And costly in its own way) like this, there's not really much else out there for men.
Honestly, the major thing that needs to change is the law regarding this. Women have a viable means of protecting themselves (The Pill, Plan B, Abortions, etc), but a man is essentially fucked.
Of course, governments want population growth so nothing will change...
Its not as easy to join the foreign legion as it used to be.
I looked into it on a whim once.
Extremely bad ass organization though.
It's still pretty easy. I tried to join last year. Didn't get through the front door because I was too weak to do 10 pull-ups, but another guy who joined on the same day as me was let in.
Huh.
Maybe they have ramped up recruitment again on account of the whole terrorism thing.
You can't get out of paying child support no matter what. Just be safe like you are already doing.
Not true. I got out of paying child support. It's just rare.
I believe you, but lets hear your example.
Was is difficult to get a vasectomy without having any children. From what I understand it's very difficult. I'm 32 and have zero desire. Do you have any resources I could read on the topic?
Refer to the childfree subreddit, they have a good list of doctors that do this stuff.
In the initial consult, there will be discussion about the child status. If you make it 100% clear that you don't want children, and you've ended any relationships purely on that point, you're more likely for them to give the go-ahead on it.
I got mine done at 23 while being entirely single, you can do it just fine honestly. Generally speaking it's easier for a childless man than a child-bearing woman to be sterilized, unusually enough.
Vasectomy at 23? Man. I wish I had known what I wanted out of life by that age.
Hey man, can you share that vasectomy story. I'll just admit I fucking don't vibe well with hospitals or clinics. I'd be willing to do it, but I'd like to hear about how to proceed form this sub though. I heard about some gel thing, in which you can reverse or allow yourself to have sperm. I'm just curious regarding like how this affects testosterone, or anything regarding the health of your sperm once you decide to reverse the surgery, or whatever the process is called.
I've been though a similar situation. From the sound of the post op thinks that this will be over once a parenting agreement is issued. Don't bet on it. It's been 5 years since the woman I knocked up and I split. In that time she's sued me 3 times trying to change the parenting agreement. Every time there have been outrageous lies and false allegations. She'll lie and slander me to anyone who will listen: my child's doctor, therapist, teacher, the cops when she calls them to try and harass me, whoever.
Op fucked up when he first found about the pregnancy by saying: "start taking prenatal vitamins". That implies that he wants to be a father. I made a similar mistake by not pushing for an abortion hard enough. The correct answer is: "Don't worry I'll pay for the abortion". If she gives you push back make it clear that she will get as little financial help from you as legally possible, and her as well as her child will never see you again. If you knock someone up you want her to think you're an asshole and that you'll be a bad father; so she'll be more likely to get an abortion.
Who cares?! Even if you don't push for an abortion she can just make shit up, and tell everyone that you did. As op found out. So now instead of telling everyone that op wanted her to have an abortion; she's lying and telling everyone he's a rapist. Is that supposed to be any better?
It's good that op started saving for attorneys fees. But again telling him that he wants to save up for a "safe new car" makes you sound like a responsible father. That's the opposite of what you want this woman to think if you're trying to get her to have an abortion. If you have any sense after reading this story that's the angle you should be playing.
Honestly I love my son, he loves me, and now that I'm in this position I would never screw him up by not being part of his life and raising him. But if I ever knock up another chick I'm pushing hard for abortion. If she won't get one then I'll cut off all contact, minimize my expenses, and pay whatever I'm legally required to pay. The reason why we have so many fatherless children is because our family law system openly caters to mothers at the expense of fathers. Especially unmarried fathers.
I would love to go back through and try out different strategies. I only had one shot through this, and there is almost no help out there for me to read (which is why I wrote this guide).
My gut instinct was that she was not going to get an abortion no matter what I said. You are right in that she eventually made up shit to talk about me to everyone else. But when you are trying to maintain frame against this toxicity it helps when you know what she's saying is false.
Same with my ex-GF. We had the talk about the scenario where she might get pregnant (just curious, did not have any plans) and she said she would never ever get an abortion. But idiot me and it happened.
So she got pregnant. I told her from the start I will pay for the abortion or she will raise the child by herself and no real man would look at her as no real man wants to raise someone else's child.
She understood very clearly that I'm not going to raise the child with her and I pushed for the abortion ASAP so that she won't change her mind. Did it the next day we found out and now I'm chilling with no fucking child to bug me.
She is my EX because she was a shit person in general, I was planning to break up before the happening, but man, with a complete stranger, I would have just hang up the phone and change my number.
When i got crazy pregnant and pushed for abortMISSion, she responded back to me, "God gave me this child and I will not let anyone take it away from me!!" Right then and there I knew I was in for it. Chin up.
I don't know all the details, just what you shared. But it sounds like you own all your choices, including the bad ones, and stayed strong, handled the consequences, planned like a leader, didn't whine like a victim.
You handled it like a champ.
I think in your situation your strategy worked perfectly.
The poster above you in this thread if you had followed his path instead of getting 50/50 custody or manage to be the custodial parent you would be losing a lot more in child support. When you are a non-custodial parent and aren't in the child's life as anything more than an ATM then the courts charge you more for not being around. Like instead of what 20% you'd be paying closer to 50% of what you earn possibly.
I have to say I am disappointed that equality doesn't exist and that this 'deadbeat mom' wasn't put into a jail cell like all those fathers tend to when they fall into arrears on their child support.
One Machiavellian approach is to pretend like you are happy. Pretend that you want to be her BB. Paint vivid images of a life of luxury out in the suburbs. Even start giving her a taste of the good life she could enjoy with you. Then, tell her that some financial problems have arisen and you simply cannot afford the kid right now. But tell her you want kids with her some day. Pay for the abortion. After it's a done deal, stick with her for a little while longer and then create a pretext to dump her.
I agree. I tried that myself. My suggestion was for guys that already tried the 'good cop' approach, and needed a last ditch hail mary.
Ah, that would be what we call the Hail Marry approach.
you should post this as well.
Theres very little of this on TRP yet
That's it. I'm out. I didn't need sex anyway.
Dude I don't know. My first girlfriend, rode horses and had money, she was cool about it. SHE made it clear she'd get an abortion and took the plan B I got for her easily. She was like more adamant about it than I was.
I think if you find a classy girl who's concerned about her image from a nice family, you might be alright. Classy women who care what their parents think don't wanna be scuzzy single mothers.
Also women with a lot to lose. As a guy in college, one of my added safe guards is I only go for women with something to lose: so I try to keep my dating pool to med students, law, or any girl seems hellbent on being a "successful-independent-womyn". Most of the times they seem more concerned than me when it comes to pregnancy.
Yeah dude that's what you do. There are plenty of successful women who don't want to deal with a kid from a guy who she's not married to. These women who would have a kid while single and force out child support are scum.
This is what I tell men all the time.
This might be just another comment to you but it really struck a cord with me. Do you still communicate with her?
Why did it strike a chord with you?
No we don't talk, we're friends on facebook but that's about it. She's like fetishized in my mind to an unhealthy degree, but I have self control about it and refrain from talking to her or being desperate.
Same scenario with me. Her mom talked to her about having an abortion. She was school at the time.
Also was fetishized in my mind - weird how that works.
Thinking about what might have become of my life is motivating as fuk
Haha yeah she's a perfect sexy thing my god. It's probably pretty unhealthy how we view them haha. It would have never worked out though bro I wouldn't sweat it.
It boggles my mind how a person can be that intelligent, composed, thoughtful, smart, cunning, strategic and patient... only AFTER having been a complete chimpanzee who creampied a stranger.
Don't trust yourself on alcohol, drugs and emotionally charged situations.
In the military they drill simple protocols for high stress situations as you can't trust logical thinking.
Do the same for yourself, always keep condoms in the same place and always with you and practice at full capacity before you get yourself high/intoxicated.
Do the same for other important acts either by reducing requirement to think (keys always in the same place) or drilling them in safer environments (practice landing from jumps before doing a parachute landing).
a.k.a. don't fuck random strangers
that narrows down the field considerably
Yeah the don't stick your dick in crazy is a good reminder. I wonder if OP was really intoxicated for this. I don't mean no disrespect, just curious. I'm sure she was an angel before shit hit the fan, I'm assuming.
Only OP will know. Either way, while a lot here had time to think it through, and tell him why he was wrong, and they would have done it better, OP seems to have been given 0 preparation time, and posting this is valuable to everyone here, and even the guys divorcing (who basically have this same scenario)
As more of them come out, strategy gets fleshed out and soon a nice little bible will come out in the manosphere "how to unfuck your life"
Funny - I said that last week here: https://archive.is/sIcm6 - seriously downvoted.... Sometimes TRP is so finicky...
I'm not saying never get drunk or do anything reckless. I'm saying put systems in place so you reduce the chance of fucking up too badly. That said I'm not a fan of alcohol.
We all do/did stupid shit. Some more stupid than other. Alcohol just increases the risk of 'stupid' - that's all (but, no fan of it myself either).
The whole time I'm reading I am thinking it is one big joke. No way this rational confident guy knocks up a random girl the first night WHILE giving her his contact information...
Oh, and OP, speak for yourself when you say drunk creampie'ing random girls happening to other guys, I'm not on that list.
+1. No drunk creampies. No sober creampies. It's like playing with a loaded gun. Why?
My point exactly.
And in reference to the OP:
If a guy has generally poor impulse control and it shows, in the sense that he's already failed in other aspects of life, then he might as well become a delinquent multiple dad, up to his neck in gambling debt, and with a benzo addiction. Go full retard, it doesn't make much of a difference at this point, anyway.
But to be like OP, who seems to have his shit together on a high level, but fails to control himself for 10 seconds at precisely the time when control is most needed – that’s inexcusable. He's a bigger failure than the first guy.
That's why I hope (in another comment) he'll have a vasectomy - we don't need more kids in 'broken' relationships.
Same here... "it doesn't make sense". Seems as if his complete strategy (and this post) is some sort of self-cleansing and/or reconciliation for his 3 minute tryst...
"I fucked up big time for 18+ years, but I handled myself like a champ afterwards. I guess that makes it an overall success, right guise?"
You're a hero.
One question: why did you insist on the paternity test (I'm assuming it's because you wanted to be a parent to your child more than you wanted to avoid child support)?
I have black hair and brown eyes. My daughter was born with red hair and blue eyes. Besides the obvious, she was a stranger, reasons there was another one. She didn't put me on the birth certificate. I have no rights at all until I prove paternity through a court ordered paternity test. Then a judge declares me a father.
Offer to pay for it. Tell her it sets up child support. It gives you rights as a father. You don't get stuck raising another man's child. Never sign a VAP. You don't have anything to lose and everything to gain.
But wouldn't this absolve you of any responsibility for paying child support?
Until she decided to declare you the father. I heard a story about a coworker where I work who found out he was the father of a 16 year old child who needed money for college. Back child support is from the moment you are aware that you have a child. Just get it out of the way.
But I guess I should also say that I have always wanted to have a child. So to me it was a no brainer.
Did your lawyer tell you that or did you read it on the internet?
He's playing the long game and wants to be part of the child's life. He wasn't going to get that without paternity proven and support paid
If she wants child support a paternity test is happening. If you refuse at that point it's basically like refusing breathalyzer, you're classified as guilty (or in this case the father). If you can find out early you are not the dad, then you get to skip a ton of legal fees.
P.S. I might be full of crap, but that's how I understand it.
Wasn't Abortion an option? I would have try hard as fuck to make it happen. A friend crashed his car with the woman inside, on the country side. "He lost the control, and crashed against a tree", help was at least 30 minutes away, due to stress she lost the baby, guy had some médium injuries, but he didn't have to take this shit.
I'm sorry for you OP. I hope it gets better.
what the fuck are you suggesting?
That he should offer her a ride when she is advanced into her pregnancy and crash his car in such a way that only the woman and/or the fetus are killed while sustaining minimal injuries himself. You know, what any right-thinking, rational adult man would do in this situation.
Well that got dark fast.
Not condoning the idea, but I'm sure it has happened in the past either intentionally or not. When you force someone into a corner they will do desperate things.
This is a (hopefully rare) consequence of current paternity law.
P.S. /u/noaprecommender, maybe add a "/s". People have poor reading comprehension sometimes.
He's suggesting the Hail Mary. Basically convince her you want a future with her and that she should have an abortion now so you can have a planned kid later on or whatever... basically you try to get her to abort by lying through your teeth that you are going to be there with her then dump her ass after.
Are you reading the same comment that I did? He said his friend intentionally crashed his car into a tree to cause a miscarriage.
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http://nypost.com/2015/03/12/man-tricked-ex-into-miscarriage-with-abortion-pill-smoothie/
A random slut calls you pregnant and your first instinct isn't to get a paternity test!?
Because it should be done anyway with every child claimed to be yours regardless of your relationship with the mother.
no he isn't. He just another dumb ass who knocked up a girl and have to deal with the consequence because if he didn't, the law would come after his ass. Everything he did is merely to savage his pathetic life.
A true smart guy would stay sober and not creampie a random stranger. Even if the girl doesn't get pregnant, she can still carry STD
A true true smart guy would get a vasectomy, condoms can fail.
The response to the situation he found himself in is very valuable. In fact it's going to expedite my vasectomy as well as make me read the 48 laws of power.
Also: https://archive.is/tHxMS/
If anyone still needed a reminder that you shouldn't stick your dick in crazy, there it is.
.... but they're all crazy! AWALT, right?
You know the hot/crazy-scale? It goes from 4 to 10 (it assumes from the onset that every woman is at least a 4). Now assuming that OP's version of events is absolutely legit, he got himself a 10.
A normal woman would probably have aborted because I doubt some rando's child support would be worth the trouble that comes with a kid.
She's far from 10. A 10 can and would do a whole lot more. OP's women would be a ~6 in my books. None of what she had apparently done was surprising at all.
Correct. Women who hurt their own kids to get sympathy (Munchausen by proxy) are near the 10 scale.
The woman who jumped out of the judges moving van in order to pretend he threw her out is near the 9 scale. Good thing he was recording it.
The woman who went to the police with a false rape complaint on her ex who had dumped her is near 8. Fortunately, he was in a different country on the date she gave the cops.
The woman who calls 911 because her date said something outrageous is near 7
This girl is six
Well.... Looks like 4 and 5 are the only options left.
The state power at the disposal of a woman's fee-fees is positively one of the scariest horrors on earth. This isn't very different than trying to survive power-tripping 12-year-olds with submachine guns in some central african republic.
Am I the only one that thinks hat telling her to get an abortion would have been a better idea than saying start taking special pregnancy pills? OP - this post is what happens if you get someone pregnant and they refuse the abortion. With this title - I feel like the entire post should have been geared towards making her get an abortion. Tactics like making it seem like your poor - i.e. asking to borrow money, etc. I feel like you fucked up a bit by not doing everything you could have to get the abortion. Also - by going for the paternity test so quick - doesn't that make it seem like you have something to lose....which is incentive for her to keep it?
The 4chan solution is to get her to drink huge amounts of orange juice, not that I condone such behaviour.
Yeah, sneak an abortion pill in her food, or do some research and do a cocktail of every chemical compound needed for an early abortion or a failed pregnancy, make her eat it for all her pregnancy duration, and you're set for a happy life if you have no morals, or a life with therapy following if you do. Even thoe worst case scenario is better than living life with only half of waht you deserve
so your suggestion is to commit a felony?
Yeah. It's extremely edgy but I believe the system, or at least the legal system doesn't protect me in some fields, especially on marriage or religion.
If you know the law is against you, you either have to live like a bitch and respect it, or you can at least try to work your way around it.
If you do NOT commit a felony, you're fucked for your whole life. If you do, you committed a felony, and that's it. You'd have to unveil your plan on the internet from your home pc or be completely retarded to get caught.
I agree with this 100%. In fact if the girl really liked you, letting her know that deciding to carry through with the pregnancy will mean the total end of any relationship without you outside the court, might do the trick. The first weeks are the only point you have any power (persuasion wise )to stop this. If she goes ahead anyway you have months to turn around and make nice if you need to.
By requesting the paternity test he was hoping that if some other dude plowed her fertile fields in the same time frame that he might not be the daddy but if he was the daddy then he was 100% certain.
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it's pretty fucking abhorrent but we aren't pussies over here at trp. the kid is already fucked because he/she would be raised by a trashy single mother who got knocked up at some random party. let's end it before it starts hurting eh? also I wouldn't wanna go down with it.
I have to agree. If they are not staying together, the kid will be treated to several Friday nights of a babysitter until 1:00 A.M. when mommy and uncle strange man show up and spend the night together.
Honestly this sounds fucked up but, has anyone on here ever convinced a woman to do so. All I know is that if you fucked without a condom expect the worst. I'd feel horrible if I told a chick to get an abortion like around a month or 2 in the pregnancy, but I wouldn't mind saying to her to do it if this has been like a few days after it happened. I guess the answer is it depends. I'd guess don't fuck around so much if you aren't ready, and never without protecting your browski.
My stance on abortion has always been a do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So there are situations where I would say, yes please abort (situations where I would rather be aborted than carried to term).
This just wasn't one of them. Daughter has no genetic issues, Mom zero drug use during pregnancy, Dad makes enough money to provide for a child and has a college degree.
I assure you though even if I was 100% for abortion, which I wasn't, suggesting it before you know how it will go over is a bad idea. Mom wanted WANTED to be the heroic single mother. Suggesting an abortion would have played right into that fantasy for her.
I understand where you are coming from but I am one who believes that you should only have a child if you are with a partner of incredible value.
That you understand your goals for this child and the child's impact on society are the same as the mother. You simply cannot do this with some short time bar hookup that then turns Walmart on you taking you back and forth to court.
You think this child is going to turn out great with this kind of upbringing then you are mad. Having two healthy families working together to raise this child is what is needed and that cannot happen in your situation of emotional warfare you are wholeheartedly involved in.
i'm struggling with the timeline. you slept with her on a singular occasion and she calls you two weeks later confirmed pregnant or had you slept with her before?
it takes at least 10 days to two weeks for the hormones to register on a pee test post-conception. if she were ovulating at the time, two weeks from ovulation is barely long enough to start your period much less feel late enough to take a test. why'd she feel the need? it sounds like she fucked you with a purpose and took a test as soon as it would read.
First, blue eyes and red hair. Now, this. OP may want a second paternity test.
usually a recessive gene causes this
Girls get horny when they ovulate. But, yes. Everything says knocked up on purpose. When I was trying to get pregnant with my now ex wife she bought pregnancy tests at Costco she was going through them that quick.
can confirm: am girl. i went off birth control a while ago and it's fun letting my body ebb and flow. dropping egg horny is a special kind of horny; horny with a fucking biological drive behind it. i imagine it's what guys feel 100% of the time in which case, bless your hearts. you can't possibly know the clarity of not having the "want to fuck something six feet into the ground" in the back of your brain screaming all day.*
i'm childless (time and money is for me, kwim?) and 30, so fighting my body back from its last stand is a real thing. i feel for its desperation, but i'd rather use it to cum real hard and smoke weed whenever i want.
*edit: i love all things universal that balance. maybe this is why we're burdened with a week of irrational cunt wetting and the annoyance of PMS (for real, i cried last week b/c i saw someone being generous to someone else. just wept. it's dumb), and stupid blood letting. we get one real solid week a month of brain correctness void of any primitive hormone driven garble; i think we have the leg up on this one, fellas. BOOM.
Girls get horny before, AND when they are ovulating. I thought it was always before. I thought them being all stressed out and shit, was from all the hormone bs going on when they are ovulating. It's hilarious how I just never googled this shit.
Yep that would be much more worthwhile. Acting like a low class individual. If that doesn't work then play the love card and say we could use the money spent on kid for vacations and then raising a kid later. Abortion has to be plans A, B, and C
... and if you have a problem with her behaviour, you're the sexist misogynist.
Good work on being so stoic, OP... I know I couldn't have been.
This sounds like a war. I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that, just for doing something that is natural.
So, what is causing it to be this way? What is causing a formally joyous event to be one of misery? Is it the child support? Would eliminating child support eliminate most of the fighting?
Is it that parental rights are unclear? If we were to enact a law that says each parent gets 50% custody no matter what, then there wouldn't be anything to argue about. Right now, it seems like it's just a free-for-all where you have to battle it out over the baby like Roman Gladiators.
This seems like a failure of laws, not people.
And pitting mothers and fathers against each other like that eliminates any chance for a reconciliation of their relationships. So, the state is literally ripping families apart and guaranteeing nobody in this situation will grow up in father and mother family.
Couples fight, break up, and get back together. It's a natural part of the relationship process and is what establishes boundaries between the couple. But when you inject certain legal ramifications, then winning the legal battle suddenly takes precedence over repairing the relationship, creating a toxic environment with no possibility for reconciliation.
Instead of helping children and promoting families, we now have a system that interferes into relationships and rips them apart by forcing one to serve the other rather than allowing them to establish any kind of mutual agreement, creating an environment where it is nearly impossible for families to willingly form and come together. By removing free will, there can be no relationship.
Bingo.
Follow the money. Family court is a $100 Billion industry; a true kleptocracy -- and it is built to incite conflict thus creating a revolving door of repeat business for the corrupt judges, lawyers and "experts" until the assets of the warring factions have been depleted.
See: Divorce Corp 2014 [edit: to fix link]
This would help significantly. Child support laws are so fucked up in the USA. The more time the woman spends with the child, the more money she gets. She is financially incentivized to keep the father's child from him. It's just terrible. There are other developed countries where custody is a simple 50/50, child support is based on what the child needs and not the higher earners income. It's so simple that often no lawyers are not even needed. It boggles my mind why it's not like that here in the US.
Edit: From another comment:
This is why. In the USA, money > family stability and child well-being.
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Scandinavia has fairer laws. Denmark was a simple 50/50 until just recently.
http://cphpost.dk/news14/national-news14/parliament-to-end-50-50-child-custody-rule.html
They modified it so that the child could choose to spend more time with one parent than another.
That said, in the US, children are seen as cash cows. Withholding a child from your ex entitles you to more money based on your ex's salary. It's just bizarre to think about.
The documentary Divorce Crop has additional information.
yeah. I'd even go so far to say women would rather give their children to their fathers for part or more of the time should the legal system not be there. Without that child support payout, there's no reason to use the child as bargaining chips anymore.
how about I tell her to have an abortion now. and if she doesn't, you leave the country and go very far? hypothetically asking
I read on here that the wife got the house, money etc. and she still tried to destroy him so the guy did what you are asking and she can't do shit except going to tv shows and newspapers to making him bad press.
Where would you go? It would need to be somewhere without extradition.
https://www.quora.com/What-countries-will-not-extradite-to-the-US
These countries currently have no extradition treaty with the United States:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, Mainland China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam and Yemen.
I'd live out my days in Andorra, Dubai and Qatar, Beijing and Shanghai, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, and the Maldives.
I honestly laughed out loud at its topical presence in this list of mostly "arseholes-of-the-earth"-type places.
I'm with /u/clackaroo, the Maldives & Russia are the way to go!
so, do you have another passport for one of those countries? After 5 or ten years when your home countries passport expires, you're fucked right? I'm going to up and split, and am looking into residency and citizenship requirements in SE Asia, Vietnam specifically.
Most countries will naturalize you within a period of ten years. Some countries will "adopt" you immediately should you become stateless. Whether or not it covers voluntary renunciation of previous citizenship probably depends on the country. SEA is corruption central; bribes can get you nearly anything there, though I'll bet you'll find that you won't want to live out your life there, so make sure you've got backup in place for when you want to return to civilization, i.e. a world-class city like the ones I mentioned.
If you're on the run from divorce-rape or something else you'd better have a damn good plan in place or you're going to get bitch-slapped by the long arm of the law.
There we go. Yea maldives is a nice place. Russia is one to consider with a nice amount of ex pats. And definitely china. Bosnia has nice beaches. Especially since they were so depopulated in the 90s.
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You can get a years-long Russian visa with some documents and a couple hundred dollars, unless I'm missing something.
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I don't know much about the Marshall Islands, but if you're looking to avoid extradition, then it's probably best to make sure you're not spending your time in a place with a cozy relationship with the US, treaty or no. The US has shown itself more than willing to compromise small countries' national sovereignty, as with Kim Dotcom and New Zealand. God knows what remains unpublicized.
idk, haven't really researched it. I've always wanted to live in one of those tropical island countries with 20k or so people
Maldives has no extradition.
Last time I saw a list of no extradition countries and if I remember correctly the only "ojay" ones were Tunisia, Algeria, Ukraine and a few others I can't remember.
Those are all pretty dangerous. Maybe ukraine, but who knows how the war will go. Maldives is one too. And there are a few asian ones. China might not extradite.
If you have some money living in Tunisia or Algeria is nearly like living in Spain/Portugal. I agree Tunisia sounds a bit more dangerous because of what happened recently
Algeria i would be nervous about due to the groups active there.
Jesus christ man thanks to this post I'm going to be getting a vesectomy scheduled today or tomorrow.
Report back. Seriously some of us, are thinking of this shit. I swear this post changed a lot of people's perceptions.
If that's "winning" then I'll opt out of the game altogether.
You made the best of a shitty situation that will be able to help others in your shoes, thanks for sharing.
The only thing this thread taught me was to continue using a burner phone number and a fake name for anything Id consider 'a stranger'.
If a chick is the kind to literally hook up with virtual strangers, shes not the kind I trust with my real identity.
If you get a sense shes more than a one night stand, the first time she calls you the fake name, you say "oh jesus you still only know my fake name." I can often keep the fake name joke going for another 'visit' or two. By then they get a real first name. And then I make them earn the last name (RARE) over a few more.
But pump and dumps? Never.
I made a post some time back regarding helpful tips on how to protect you identity from hookups and remain anonymous. Surprisingly, it was met with being called crazy and over reactive.
They say minutes of preparation save hours of execution. Well, if 15 minutes to download a voip app and set it up (or the $20 a month for a burner phone), and 5 minutes to practice your fake name are too much for them... whatever.. deal with the crazies. In reality we cant have too many guys doing this or girls will start being clever and 'oh let me see your ID' when the bartender asks to see yours, or shell glance at your debit card or receipt when you pay. (I actually pay cash for just this reason usually on tinder dates)
I knew this was worthwhile the first time a chick got weird and annoying so I just texted her "This is a burner phone. Im changing the number. Bye" I swear to god she didn't even respond. It didnt even really matter if it was true, she realized she actually knew nothing about me.
Changes subject to a light compliment and easily manipulates her need for validation.
was that the one about using AirBNB as a pad? That was pretty clever actually
No, can't take credit for that.
because wearing a condom is easier?
Mate it's the age of dual SIM, make sure you have one, it even looks and sounds like the same phone!
You learn something new everyday. Seems like for now on my current phone it would be a crude workaround dual sim adapter, but next phone should be dual sim. Although voip apps do just about the same thing except they cant receive pictures over text which is annoying as all hell.
But honestly, I like the burner phone just in case all hell broke loose you can just toss it. The number/sim isn't attached to my device, cookies, mac address, or who knows what else the actual device I use day to day under a real att contract might give away.
I have a feeling pay as you go cash based no id required phones are going away pretty soon anyway.
Unless you paid cash and cash only and have a true "burner" cell phone, they will track it back to you when it comes time for child support.
First off, I do mean true burner and cash. But even if its a voip burner, and you used your atm card at some dinner and bar back in November. By the time the chick realizes shes fucked and pregnant, there is no way shes getting some police warrant action to obtain the receipt information for a restaurant last month let alone 10 months ago. Nor is some texting app going to release my IP address, nor is att going to release their customer info.. all on some chick saying "but the dad is in their somewhere I swear."
And even if that WAS technically legal, I think most chicks would call the number a few times, realize its been changed/disconnected.. and abort, or come to grips with it.
I wouldn't be so sure of that!
This. Don't give them too much credit. They assume everything will be easy for them. As soon as they have to put work or in realize the number isn't working anymore, like you said, they will know they've lost.
No the only occasion you do this is when the government is after you, and you have to lose everything.
With a shit girl it's just as easy as throwing away the sim.
You can get free pay as you go sims, that aren't tied to your phone. Nowadays my second one gives me free text messages and data every time I top-up, I got it from ASDA, so that's basically Walmart.
What do you do for apps like whatsapp/snapchat etc.? Apps that you'd use to communicate with both your regular friends and the 'strangers' you meet. Can you have multiple active accounts on the same phone or do you basically strictly use sms and phonecalls only with randoms?
Android and a bit of know-how. Slices was the app I used but you need to root your phone. Dot use it anymore so can't speak for how good it is these days
OP, I am thoroughly sorry to hear about what you have had to go through. Not to be that guy, but obviously wrapping up would've been a better route; but I digress.
Given the circumstances, you have played this out so far like a master and I applaud you for your strength and resolution. Seriously man, you're one tough (and smart) mofo. Knocking a bitch up would have broken me in half.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, this is all very useful knowledge for those who need it, and I hope you continue to stay as strong as you have been thus far.
Do the Tom Leykis hail mary:
1.) Tell her that you love her deeply and you want to marry her and have a child together, just not now because you don't have the money, aren't finished school, whatever. Tell her you want to save the money for a wedding and house for her. Tell her you will pay for her abortion. Drive her to the clinic and get it done. Then run away.
2.) If she refuses, tell her that she will be a single Mother, she will be poor because you won't help her raise the bastard child. You will only pay bare minimum child support. The kid and her will have major issues. Tell her the only way out is for her to have an abortion. Drive her to the clinic and get it done. Run away after.
This should be in the sidebar.
Think about the people who come here to finally get laid only to have the script flipped on them with their girl telling them that they're now expecting. Think about the guys who swallowed the pill because their perfect little unicorn turned out to be a donkey with a snowcone on its face and cleaned their bank account out with legal fees, alimony, child support, and any other ways a man could waste his hard earned cash on a woman.
This could prevent a lot of undue suffering.
This mental image made my lol.
That's not snow in the snowcone, either.
Wet and white, but a bit too sticky to be snow.
I had a similar thing happen to me. You know what I did? After much arguing, I told her to get an abortion and left town. Never looked back.
you weren't pursued for Child Support?
To this day? No. Tomorrow? Maybe.
guess you'll know when you're pulled over for speeding and extradited to another state. good luck.
There must be a way to at least figure out whether she had the kid or not. Facebook? A remaining contact in town?
I hope you have some money left for a vasectomy.
Or, instead of all this.
Vasectomy.
Unfortunately, until reliable, reversible contraceptives become available for men (e.g. Vasalgel), this is the only fool-proof solution.
Reading through your post my heart started racing and I felt myself becoming more anxious. This is something that terrifies me. You handled this situation incredibly well.
Fantastic post. This is truly a valuable contribution.
It would be fascinating to hear her side of the story and compare the narratives. I think it's safe to assume that the version on Good Morning, America would more closely resemble that of the suffering single-mother whose child is being torn from her bosom by the misogynistic TRPer. Sob he got a court order tears flowing to change her name!
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7 months and then the lease is up. Would have made for a good story.
Oh god, I'm talking to my doctor about getting a vasectomy today.
You are a hero, truly. Identifying weak points in the system is the only way we will ever survive these death traps and I applaud you for this map.
This has been my life for a little over a year now. Almost exactly the same. It was almost like I was reading my autobiography. It is truly motivating to hear that the plan worked out against the hyper-controller, as painful as the past two months of not seeing my daughter have been.
I really need to type up my custody battle some day. Just some quick advice, even if you win, don't think for a second that it's over. In face the following 3 months were probably worse because the crazy cunt really had nothing left to lose.
A solid read. I'm disappointed however to see how some of the comments are going. This is a worst-case scenario, something that shouldn't happen, yes. But IF it ever happens to you, then this will help you control the conditions of your loss.
Because that's all you can do in this situation, loose on the best terms possible
I only have one thing to say: archived
Most of this I would do the opposite and your result is the proof of how wrong you were.
I would of course congratulate her and offer assistance with the pregnancy, but the moment she acted like a cunt I would cease my assistance. To continue to be kind and conciliatory towards someone who is being a cunt merely encourages that behavior.
After I ceased contact I would wait until the child was born and then order a paternity test. While I would prepare for this by saving money and learning about the court system and procedures I wouldn't worry about anything else because she would already be out of my life.
This provides the unique benefit of not giving her any ammunition to use against me or figuring out any leverage to use against me later on.
So long as there were emails and other exchanges such as letters, etc. then any rape claim will fall flat. Beyond that, so long as she behaves civilly I'm willing to assist her. Any money that I give her (if I give her any money) will be recorded and if possible presented as a loan. That way if the kid turns out to be mine then I can demand that money back later in court.
I just cannot see the logic in enabling a vicious cunt like this. You've empowered her by giving her whatever she wanted. You've destroyed your health and sanity by living with her. You've increased your risk of further accusations by cohabitation with her.
All of this AFTER you realized she was a controlling abusive bitch.
I cannot recommend that to anyone and I sure wouldn't submit to it myself.
I agree that you shouldn't argue with her. There's no profit margin in attacking or criticizing a woman. Best to let a lawyer do the talking. But I wouldn't agree with everything she says either. If you both cannot agree then a man's primary tool of leverage is to walk away. Women hate that. Why? Because if you aren't there then she can't manipulate you. If you are never there then it's a lot harder to claim you were and that you hit her or raped her or whatever.
Instead, you went full Beta and took her abuse for 9 months and counting. If I can't respect that then I know no woman would either. Women hate weakness and by giving in to her every demand you made her hate you even more.
Even though you say just as much you still lived with this woman knowing she was trying to fuck you over.
In my view if you want a woman to like or respect you then you don't give her everything she wants. You sure the fuck don't move in with her just because you think she has more power than you.
She had no power over you personally until you gave in to her demands. She did have a right to seek money from you if you turned out to be the father, but had you not spoken to her for 9 months and then gone into court and said that you were absent because she was abusive towards you and you were afraid for your safety (which is actually true) then how could they denounce that action?
As for the child support. If I wanted to fuck her on the support I would just quit my job and get a piddly minimum wage job. When the court assigned support they could do it at a minimum wage rate.
Then I'd move out of state and get a better job and not tell anyone about it.
As for visitation I'd want to be a father in my child's life. However, if she's going to be a cunt I'd simply tell the court that it's not healthy for you or the child to be in that child's life so long as the mother is encouraged and empowered by the court to be abusive and manipulative and I would tell them I want no visitation so long as my right to safety and to be an equal parent is not recognized or respected.
Then walk away.
Addendum: Women love men conditionally. Their love is more like adoration than the way men love.
When you cave and give in to everything she wants. When you don't stand up for yourself and let her push you around and abuse you. All you are doing is making her lose respect for you.
Once you've lost her respect she will always hate you and work against you. She won't want you in her life or her kid's life.
But if you don't put up with it. If you take a stand and kick her out of your life for being an ass then even if she's mad at you she will at least respect you and know that you aren't going to take whatever shit sandwich she tries to serve you whenever she wants to serve it up.
This is a war of wills. You will gave in the moment she said she was pregnant. That's as beta as you can get.
Had you done it right she should have been begging you to be in the kids life and at that point you could have demanded shared custody with no support.
If a woman had any respect for a man, she wouldn't be trying to dominate him by submission through a pregnancy.
In OP's case, he was pre-approved as a beta bucks, and she was determined to extort money from him. There is nothing else for him to do at this point other than to play the game and mitigate the damage dealt to him.
Had she respected him, she would have fucked him for his seed and left it at that. When a guy is actively interacting with a girl, he has already been labeled well in advance of receiving any benefits from the relationship (ex. orbiter, fuck buddy, etc.). Only time void of interaction may change a woman's opinion of a man.
"Only time void of interaction may change a woman's opinion of a man."
Which is why I said he should have severed all contact after she proved to be controlling and manipulative.
The people who think he's great are wrong. I'm sure he's a nice person, but he did it wrong and he paid the price. It's only through good luck and a lot of work (and the mother's unabashed viciousness) that he's in such a good position at this point.
I still think he could have gotten here earlier with less effort and risk. In fact, I think if he completely refused to allow her to control him she would have tried to force him to take shared custody which sounds like what he wanted all along.
Glad I have your vote in 2016!
This comment needs more recognition. It's great that OP did this heroic deed and shared, but I think you're right: There is always a way to improve the strategy, and you've pointed out some possible options. This is an empirical question, and unfortunately we're going to need more data :/
While your comment sounds good, the practicality (in the US at least) is completely wrong.
The only way to avoid child support is if the mother truly does not want support from you and never goes to the government for support or assistance.
If mom needs welfare, the government will come find you even if the mother doesn't ask them to. If mom does want support, a judge will track you down and order you to pay and won't let you have a minute with the child until you start fighting for it. And then you're locked into a battle where you're starting in a massive hole by not being part of the child's life prior to the fight.
The bottom line is that she's going to get paid whether she's a vicious cunt or not and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
I never said you could get out of paying support. I said that you could greatly reduce the child support you pay by quitting your job and working part time for a while until the child support amount is set.
Once it is set you leave the state and find a new job and don't communicate with the mother. She's going to find it very difficult to even determine if you make more money and even harder to get the state to go after you in another state so long as you are paying the amount you owe.
They will say all kinds of nasty stuff about you so claiming I'm not active in the child's life will be an issue regardless of how involved I am. In fact, it can be twisted around to say I'm too involved in my child's life and this is controlling.
You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a lot better to come to court and say you tried to be involved but the mother was abusive towards you and you felt it was better for her health (since she was pregnant) that you not be around.
Judges see these games ALL the time. They will impute your income to previous levels and then you'll be paying support based on a salary you no longer make. Lord forbid you then can't get a job at your previous level of income.
I disagree. States get money from the federal government for the amount of child support they collect. They have a direct incentive to find you. If the mom wants to know what you make, all she has to do is file with the courts and have you served. The very first thing that will be required will be your financial affidavit which includes your most recent few months of pay stubs. If you don't provide it or fib, you can enjoy your contempt charge in jail.
from http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/child-support-adminstration.aspx
You make it sound like it's easy for her to keep tabs on you. It isn't.
She has to get a lawyer to file the request to review your income. In order to do that she needs some kind of probable cause to poke into your affairs. Either way, it's not easy for states to come after you once you've left the state. States still do not share information.
That said, there are lots of reasons to quit your job. For instance, if you get hurt and can't work and have a doctor's note then what is the judge going to do?
I drive a truck. If I can't drive a truck then there is no way a judge can expect me to make 50k+ a year. That's an entire industry closed to me if I get hurt.
Obviously you can't just show up in court and say you are lazy and don't work. But if you have documentation then the judge must accept that.
Not everything is doom and gloom. You have to know the system and be willing to subvert it for your benefit.
Don't get me wrong. If I had a kid I'd be more than happy to do my part, and by "my part" I mean equal shared custody with not transfer of wealth from me to the baby momma.
very easy to judge an operation in an armchair isn't it
go nut in one, report your progress
This is amazing advice, if you're morally opposed to abortion or if it becomes clear that it isn't an option. However, the first line of defense (aside from wrapping your tool) should be an abortion. This is a stranger. Most likely some girl you met at a bar, coffee shop, bus, etc... Having a child you haven't prepared for with a woman that you don't know is irresponsible parenting at best. At absolute worst it will kill your social life, finances, and reputation all for a kid who will grow up trained to think you're a scumbag.
Telling her to start taking pre-natal pills is conditioning her to thinking she's going to be having the baby. It gets her in a protective, motherly mode. Why would you want to do that? First step, tell her you both need to talk about it. This is your life, and regardless of what the law says, that thing is half yours. Forget white knight bullshit about it being her choice. Get her to think of it as making the decision together. Get her to see it as making the best choice for her future children. She can have several kids with multiple fathers with various levels of involvement, or she can do what's best for her kids and have several kids in a stable situation with a man.
Remember, appeal to her emotions. Most importantly, keep calm and keep her calm. The overriding emotion is for her to keep it, so keep emotions as low as possible. It's her natural instinct. Make her feel comfortable, and appeal to the side of her that believes women should have control of when and how she has children. If you were having unprotected sex with her without knowing her very well, chances are she's a "progressive" woman.
Seriously, I think OP has gone through some shit, and maybe abortion was absolutely not an option and he handled it the best he could, but for the majority of men living in the progressive western world, abortion is the first move after an unwanted pregnancy with a woman you don't know.
"Regardless of what anyone says, society and everyone WILL look down on both you as a single mother. It would be a terrible life for the kid as well. But in the future you can do it when you're absolutely ready"
You know plant the idea that it will kill her social standing, but it will HELP it if she does it at a better time.
I must commend you for not walking out of you daughter's life against all these odds and giving her a chance for a decent life. Her Mother doesn't sound like a good person.
All warfare is based on deception
Are you sure the kid is yours, or have pregnancy tests become more reliable. The amount of days seems to be off.
I find this highly suspicious.
For you guys out there, here is a woman's fertility cycle. Look at the wheel thingie. Anyways the woman does not get fertile till 8 days after her period. So according to the wheel you would have had to had knocked her up on day 19 after her period. She would not know to do a pregnancy test until she missed her period. The baby doctor has a fancier wheel and she can tell when the baby was concieved and when it is due by the length of the woman's period etc.
Usually pregnancy tests are not reliable till 3 weeks after the woman has missed her period. Maybe the tests have gotten more reliable now, it is because of the hormones.
Even with ultrasound you can't see the baby till 4 weeks if I remember correctly.
I have kids, I am happy I have kids. But I don't want you paying for someone's cuckhold.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar-based_contraceptive_methods
I'm a single guy in my early 20's and I love teaching. I want a family some day with a loving mother. The legal system is shit though.
Anyone joined CASA as a volunteer? Would that be a good way to be a non-biased advocate that didn't skew facts for women? I'm sure many of the social workers are old damaged cat ladies. It's a drop in the pan, but who knows, I might be able to do a lot of good work.
Thoughts on this OP?
Shit, I wonder if kids like coming out of high school realize this is the way the world works.
The way OP is absolutely powerless in the court system for almost the entire story, then in the end, getting to see his daughter 50% of the time is what constitutes the best case scenario. It makes me think vasectomy at age 18 isn't such far fetched idea if you know you are going to be livin wild for a while. We have to be getting good at reversing them by now if you really feel like it later in life.
My vasectomy was done by a urologist who has done the procedure over 10,000 times. He does not consider it to be "reversible" and requires that you watch an instructional video explaining this and sign documents indicating that you understand this before the procedure.
Eventually, we will have truly reversible long-term male contraception (e.g. Vasalgel). But unfortunately, that day has not come.
I can only relate to this post as far as the shit test, and it turned out to be just that, a shit test. It was never explicitly stated she was pregnant, my plate gave me covert signs at the beginning.
"My stomach feels weird" "Why" "Gee idk" (I know she knows in this short worded manner she comes off as passive aggressive to me and tries to make me assume the worst)
A few days later she tells me the same and I brush it off
The following day I asked her about her stomach and she said "why are you asking this?"
I felt the anger inside me rise as I figure she's definitely just playing with me and get me to admit I'm thinking she's pregnant
"Oh I care about your health"
After a few months her non pregnancy is confirmed as she showed no physical signs and you better fucking believed I danced
As a young male, this post makes me feel safer in the case this road have took a different direction, thank you for your contribution, may your health be optimal.
I needed that laugh, oh shit. I wish I would have payed more attention to this show as a kid. This show just screams don't stick your dick in crazy. I wish cunts would tone down giving young guys especially "virgins" a hard time. When the reality is a lot of them will realize their pussy chase will end up with them fucking up their lives, just to prove they could fuck at such a young age. Instead it would be better to throw down TRP at them. Tell them how fucking isn't the only thing you should focus on in life. If this thought is retarded let me know.
You lost me here my good sir.
Can you give me some constructive criticism? I modified my comment a bit for clarity.
I understand what you're saying now, but I had to put in a little effort to figure it out and connect it, but let's critic it shall we?
You're talking to me about enjoying the video, wish you would have paid more attention to that show as a kid, take a life lesson from it "Don't stick your dick in crazy" So far so good
But then the context changes dramatically when you put
I get what you're saying, there's the natural chad thundercocks and alphas getting pussy, and there's the virgins, the virgins are being mocked for being virgins, probably by women and the chads, when in reality they're not really missing out on much, because pussy is definitely not on the pedestal.
You just lack a transition, as the "flow" in your sentence is immediately interrupted. I'll suggest a transition.
"I needed that laugh, oh shit. I wish I would have payed more attention to this show as a kid. This show just screams don't stick your dick in crazy, and I feel as if that's a fact that needs to be recognized more by cunts that give young guys, especially "virgins" a hard time..."
Okay now that we got that out of the way, you asked me to critic your thinking. You say TRP should be taught to kids at at a younger age so they don't praise pussy and don't mock others for not getting it, or so they don't feel insecure when others mock them for it.
I believe you are correct, our time is limited and we must stick to reality and those types of thinking further us from it. I don't find stupidity in your thinking.
I can give you a real life example of the equivalent of this, in my neighborhood there tends to be thugs and gangsters and boy those tend to be natural chads, but those motherfuckers have an inflated ego (that does attract pussy) that get them stabbed, beat up, shot and killed. It's kind of like the jungle. While these people do have their good fun and develop good confidence, I'm glad I didn't fall into that crowd (I was very sheltered) and I would rather send my son to a boarder school (hit him with TRP early) than have to deal the jungle problems (cunt mindset)
However I do believe TRP is all about enlarging your power, having your cake and eating it too. Wouldn't it be cool if as a child you got as much pussy as the chads and thugs, and that pussy didn't affect your thinking/actions at all, while also having the great discipline and education of a boarding school? I know the testosterone from sex would have definitely done me better my younger years.
If any of this is retarded let me know.
No, this is far from retarded. By all means, you seem to have a great way of breaking down things and suggesting what needs to be improved upon. I hardly take the time to do this with replies. I'll just say that I always had subpar grades in English. It's never been a strong subject for me. But thanks for reminding me to pay more attention to how I transition or get a point across. This is seriously one of my favorite subs because I've noticed people take the time to really help others out. Seriously, thanks again man.
due to RP's past, I thought this post would go a total different direction and would be fish in a barrel for TwoXX, but thank you. not only did you do the right thing, but the guide is actually helpful to someone in that position. you did what a man would do. "don't fight the storm, just cover and brace for it. "
I'm glad that you choose to be in your daughters life. I got out with abortion (her choice, I concurred) otherwise I'd have a 10 year old kid. I'm 31 now and no kids and feels great! Sorry to rub that in though. you'll be a great father.
Week one buy her season pass to 6 flags. Remaining weeks, feed her massive amounts of vitamin C.
Document, document, document, and document some more. Why? because maintaining a daily diary of what you observe won't be directly admissible in court, but you can "refer back to my notes" which IS admissible in court. Also, GAL's tend to take daily documentation seriously because they know you are serious.
Don't let your guard down now, it is NOT over. You will be lulled into a false sense of security while she waits like a piranha. Take precautions by making frequent family visits so your mother and father can observe what is going on, overnight visits are best. Make sure everyone who sees you in a father role sees you as a guy who really wants what is best for your kid(s). Why? Mine waited until I had unsupervised visitation for 3 months and had taken the kids on a vacation trip, then she sprung it on me (again) that I was abusing the kids and had done so on the vacation. If I had not had abundant documentation in the form of daily notes, I would have been investigated until the end of time by a court system motivated by an "abundance of caution" mentality.
So basically your entire life is absolutely fucked. I am not fucking a woman ever again.
Only if you let it be fucked. You have the choice to live a great life despite your mistakes and loss of income. It's all in how you handle yourself.
Absolutely beautiful, and probably the best post I've seen on here. It gives hope to a lot of guys in your same situation. This is side bar material, if I've ever seen it.
Congratulations to you, man. I hope you take it all the way, and land full custody some day.
Stay strong, and keep thinking ahead.
I feel like the abortion thing is weak. I've told both girls who claimed to be pregnant that was the only option as far as I was concerned. She wants to "throw me under the bus"? IDGAF, my reputation is way less important than not having a baby at 22 yo. Plus, it damaged my reputation zero points both times.
If you want her to have an abortion, just friggin tell her.
I know this will probably get buried somewhere, but hopefully you will read this. This post almost brought me to tears, because I wish my dad cared this much about me and my sister (instead he jumped of a building, probably screaming I'm a loser all the way down). You are obviously not like this, and therefore I am happy for your daughter.
Keep strong man. You can be proud of yourself. You gave your daughter the dad she deserves. Shit will get hard, and you might need to fight this battle again at some point, until your daughter is old enough to realize you are what she needs for herself. Just don't let her mom convince her otherwise.
There were a lot of dark days where I did not think I could do it. I would never blame a guy for walking away after everything I've been through. I have empathy now for the dad's that walk away. I have empathy now for the guys that beat up women too (in the sense that your brain sometimes is so stressed out that the only suggestion that you can even see through the red haze is to start swinging). I'll have anxiety attacks to this day even though I know that nothing is wrong and that I'm safe right now. I often say that I'd much rather have a Ray Rice punch to the face than everything that I've gone through. Give me a broken face any day to this 15 month long hell for my daughter.
You're fighting a fight that seems so unfair and so set against you for a person you've never met and you don't even know if you'll like after it's all set and done. I still have to deal with parental brainwashing, false molestation charges, and whatever else the future brings. Don't blame your dad too much, he was alive in a time where these fights were even harder and more set against the Dads. I'll be honest the thoughts of what I would do if I lost everything were pretty fucking dark.
Wow, guess that's what happens when you sleep with strangers and are too stupid to use proper protection.
No. This is not usually what happens when someone sleeps with someone without protection.
I think usually nothing happens because the rate of fertilization is low. But in my one specific lapse of judgment (or as you would say, being too stupid) fertilization did occur.
Then usually what happens is that the guy gets blindsided in court because he's not at all prepared for any of this. Then he blames the court system for not being in his child's life.
Eventually he becomes that "every other weekend" father. You know, the Dad who buys their children's love because he's not in their life enough? That's what usually happens to us idiot males who fail to use proper protection.
What a story. What a guide.
While I appreciate the achievement of OP as being somewhat monumental in today's court system... the Red Pill advice has to be "don't get a woman pregnant." The whole thing combines both helpful advice and a very sober warning to all men who are not in this position. (Is it really worth nutting inside that chick? Seriously?)
If OP's daughter's mom continues with her insanity then I think it's time to get some CCTV in your house and out the front. Beyond that, I think you're doing everything you can. Best of luck to you, and best of luck with the most difficult task of all - raising a daughter in this modern culture to try and prevent her making a bunch of bad life choices and ending up miserable. I think that task may be even harder than your court battle, but I sense you'll find an even greater emotional strength to be ready for it.
.
Unprotected sex with strangers... yeah baby yeah... that's groovy.
Austin Powers
(who could have imagined this would turn out badly?)
.
You seem pretty intelligent for a guy who was so fucking stupid he nutted in a drunk chick he didn't know who had a way to find him.
I don't know about everyone here, but I think most of us have had sexual encounters we wish we didn't have.
Not one weighing in at 275lbs god damn.
When did he say she weighed 275 pounds?
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Lost it at "Hamplanet" lol
Ded
I think you read the other story that was a comment on here.
You're right. How the hell did the happen hmmm
I am not saying you shouldn't fuck every skank at the bus station.
By all means... raw dog every girl at your "Coping with STDs" meetings.
I am just saying don't let your sperm have any way of ending up in their vaginas.
Sometimes drunk sex is stupid sex.. Hence the reason I cut back on my drinking
I'm actually thinking about doing the same. The amount of times I've come home hammered to bang my neighbor (which I would prefer not to) is way too high.
Maybe cannabis is a chill alternative? Get fucked up but never wake up with a hangover again?
Ya cannabis right? Bro. If you haven't woken up at least groggy you must've just started smoking
I've only smoked a fair share and I've only woken up groggy but from edibles. Nothing like alcohol though, I would always take a bit of grogginess over a hangover.
I rarely get drunk. I was drunk and she was so nice all night. The nicest, warmest, most beautiful girl I'd met in a while. When we got into the room she assaulted me in a way that I will forever remember as being an obvious sign that she was in heat. I fucked up, every one of my ancestors fucked up too. It runs in my family.
Bingo - I've been scrolling through the comments looking for this. Your post provided a wealth of information as to what happens once the baby is a reality. What about the events preceding? Any more detail you could provide on hints that this girl was looking to get knocked up (or a at least wouldn't mind) would help.
If I can pay you one compliment as a counterweight to all the "duh, you should have worn a rubber" comments (which I agree with btw) - given your obvious slickness in handling the matter, she certainly did manage to grab some great genes for the kid.
In this sarcastic comment, not only is he justifying himself, but he also seems to be saying he succeeded because he got to spread his genes (unlike all the advice-giving, condom-wearing non-fathers in this thread).
Just because all his ancestors managed to breed, doesn't mean it's automatically a success to knock up the first 'nicest, warmest, most beautiful girl in heat' you meet at a party.
For 99% of the evolutionary timeframe, knocking up random chicks was a huge win for men.
For 99% of the evolutionary timeframe, it was a huge win for men to kill strangers and take their stuff.
But we're no longer Ooga and Booga.
If OP successfully controls that evolutionary desire, he should also control his dick.
lol when ur ass is on fire, your brain tend to process stuff faster. OP must have been one of those ppl.
simple,Don't fuck a slut bareback
worse than having a child is having a child and HIV
This sounds like the best way to have children. I'm throwing my condoms away after work.
I'M GOING TO BE A DADDY!!!!
Holy shit this is literally a blue pill manual. Did anyone read the same post as me?
Got a random stranger pregnant?
...
I'm totally just imagining OP sitting at his desk with a cup of coffee thinking how he's some kind of Red Pill genius.
Glad I'm not the only one, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
TL;DR Use a condom and check it afterwards
Halfway through I was thinking, 'fuck a vasectomy sounds like less trouble'
Brilliant how to. But the bigger lesson is, as always: never put your dick in crazy...
We really need to sidebar this
Two things: 1) congratulations to you for being capable of being such an incredible strategic thinker when forced into such an abysmally unfair situation. Actually unfair barely touches how wrong it is. My brother had a similar experience but unlike you he cut off all contact with mother, never saw the child, and just paid for 18 years. (Yes he had a paternity test) And 2)as an infant and small child your daughter may seem indivisible from the mother, but eventually she will be an adult and the better off for your involvement in her life.
I realize this probably isn't the place, but can you tell us about your daughter and your experience with her so far?
It sounds like you're swimming in a pool of piss.
This woman is clearly a psychotic bitch, why does anyone have to put up with dogshit like her at all?
Im quickly coming to the sentiment that women are just not fucking worth it
So what ever happened with your eyes? Did they stabilize?
If you don't want kids and you never want to be in this situation, just get a vasectomy!
In the old days the pregnancy would have meant you were married, you would live together and probably have more kids together, and put up with each other's imperfections just like every married couple has to do.
Now because of her piggishness you manage to have 50/50 custody, which was the best you could possibly do. But it's certainly worse for the daughter and leaves both your lives permanently complicated.
Women's lib FTW :/
Wouldn't it have saved you tons of trouble if you worked on establishing rapport with the mother instead?
Fuck, even if you were genuinely sociopath, you should know that your best option is to win friends not make enemies.
Good luck with your daughter, broseph.
It's tough as shit being a single dad, but it's worth it when you realize you have so much more control than the typical "normal" 2 parent household. Control of frame is life. Life is control!
I was going to make a future post on this somewhere about this exact point. I am free to raise my daughter how I want without being belittled in front of her or argued with. I have coworkers, married, who have these issues. I will not have to deal with it ever.
Reading through all of this, I feel empathy the guys living in the West. So much struggle, so much pain, and so much bullshit for no measurable reward.
This is an ad for a vasectomy.
Too bad your ex didn't have a son, doesn't seem worth the trouble otherwise.
This is why you give a fake name and a burner phone my man
This is an amazing account, thank you.
Here's a guide - don't give out your real name to one night stands, and stop giving strangers your main phone number like a tool. Get a burner phone - learned this early in the drug game. Everyone should have a second phone that isn't tied to their name. Cell phones are too tied to your identity these days. Fake name, prepaid cell phone, good to go.
I still don't get why you didn't ask for an abortion. Girls need someone to make hard decisions for them, and you made it when you told her to start taking prenatal vitamins.
Seriously dude what the hell!
Now it looks like the mum has failed in her aggression , control, and character assassination.. do you think her next move will be tears or to try and seduce you? Maybe it'll start with can't we just talk 121 over dinner/glass of wine...
Just because her venom has failed does not mean it's spent. The next step will be tears or seduction. A show of vulnerability to convince him that the danger has passed. Then- should he heed his dick, suffer a slip of the tongue- anything at all. She Will Strike with a fury not yet seen
I hate to rain on the parade, but:
A victory against a system that seeks to destroy you will be short lived. That you managed to play your cards right will most likely provoke somebody higher up and new false allegations will rain upon you. Right now you're just a fish that managed to slip through the net.
And after all of this you'll only have 50/50. Prepare for false child molestation accusations. Prepare for step-daddy actually molesting your kid. If it is you kid. When the opportunity gives, take the kid and run.
Thank you for sharing your story. From a guy that never knew my biological father, for whatever reason, I salute you. Good work.
Sack up next time though lol
so have you ever accused mom of being a bitch and forcing father to leave?
I had two pregnancy scares at the exact same time a few years back.. I got lucky.
I've had one safe fwbs for the past 6 years, other then that I've pretty much went mgtow for this reason alone, until I get a vasectomy of course
500 bucks and it's an outpatient procedure. Do it.
Actually only like $20(I have good insurance). I was putting it off just in case I wanted kids. But since the ex moved out I'm becoming more realistic about the issue
Why do you care so much about the surname? This is about your daughter not some petty victory over your daughters mom.
I don't care as much now honestly. At the moment back a year ago it was more about the implications that she didn't judge me as good enough to even be considered in the naming of my child. It's a constant battle in your mind to remind yourself never retaliate, never get petty.
If it's something I can win, then I'll need to know if it's worth it. I'm not really sure which Law of Power will become appropriate (in victory never go beyond the mark you shoot for, or, crush your enemy completely).
Hey man. Major props.
Keep a look out. I'm sure you'll find alcohol and strangers at the mother's place some time.
Just be aware.
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Amazing story, great job keeping cool and having such a great strategy.
why would you have to pay child support if you get 50/50 custody?
Even in a 50/50 custody agreement one parent is declared the placement parent. I was declared the school placement parent and awarded child support to the tune of 110$ a week. That has been reduced over the years to only 70$ a week.
When you type "Ballat of the Shit Test", what is a "Ballat"?
You've got me playing "Joy to the World" in my head. You've achieved the impossible.
Such level of play will seriously start ducking with your brain, and psychopathy is possible. Decide if you want to be psychopathic and go from there. I know of a Co worker who had to deal with a narcissistic grandmother who ended up being the sweetest talking psychopath who everyone working for him came to hate because of his manipulation.
I wonder if there an option of just giving in? What do you think would happen if the guy just says "cool" and then attempts to work out child support with the mother based on the average for their state?
I guess the mom isn't going to want to give away joint custody, so the only "get along" option would be to ask to visit often and offer to babysit, which would probably result in something like a 1-5 custody ratio. Still, the value of getting along and not experiencing an ongoing animosity might more than make up the difference.
Great writeup and sound advice. This belongs in the sidebar.
Can someone explain why she was so crazy? Did she not want the father to be in the daughters life? I know women are irrational but this is pretty batshit.
She wants to hurt him in some way. Why? Who the fuck knows. She doesn't even know. She just knows she wants to hurt him.
My ex wife tried to make me an every other weekend father after she told me she wanted a divorce and I didn't do the divorce the way she wanted. Her response was to try to minimize my involvement in our children's lives after 17 years of marriage. She didn't get what she wanted any step of the way because logic won out over emotion.
moral of the story....don't stick your dick in crazy
Also note that all women are crazy.
This was simply a masterpiece! Thank you for taking the time to write it. I hope to GOD it doesn't ever happen to me and if anything it shows how important is to ALWAYS put on condoms.
TL:DR; Get a good family lawyer immediately and listen to his advice
Lessons Learned
Go to Law School and become a lawyer that works directly with this type of stuff. Secondly, this is all pretty rough. How about planning to have the mom "disappear". Then take full custody of the child. Wouldn't even mention this if this girl was a nice person and would actually want to work together for our mutual benefit and the greater good of our child. Not really serious. Just a joke :).
Whatever though. Having to deal with this type of person for the rest of her life doesn't seem like much fun. But it is what it is and I agree with you; I absolutely would do everything I could to be a huge factor in my daughter or son's life. Oh and the last name thing. WTF man. That would eat me up big time. I would make that my absolute number 1 focus. I mean the child being a daughter changes it slightly since if she gets married, it'll change anyway. But if it were a boy, there's no way, no how I would ever allow that. Congrats on the paternity test. I can't wait to throw this one out to my LTR or random slut one of these days. I must KNOW for a fact.
Also, isn't the 48 Laws of Power freakin' awesome? Any other books you guys recommend similar to this? I know he's got other books too like Mastery, Seduction, the 50th Law, 33 Strategies of War. Maybe I'll check out Mastery, but I would like something that deals with day-to-day actions like 48 Laws of Power, where I feel like Mastery is more of a "long-term" strategy guide. Still important obviously. Anyway, good stuff bro. Nice Post!
My philosophical argument for why everyone should always get a paternity test is this:
A child has a right to know with absolute certainty who their father is. When they go to a doctor and the doctor asks them if they have a family medical history for any diseases, being misinformed or mistaken about who their genetic father is can cause actual harm.
This is PR bullshit argument by the way, but it has never failed to get people to stop and think that maybe mandatory paternity tests would not be so bad.
Im getting this professionally translated just so I understand everything as should be. Thank you.
I came in thinking this would be a post on how to ghost someone like this. But damn man good information. And keep up the fight brother you got this shit!
Good post. Can you at all pin point the mistake on your part? Did the condom break or what exactly happened/do you think happened?
This is all true, but the system still needs to be changed.
How the fuck you maintained frame with that, I'll never know.
I have a hot temper in the face of stupid bullshit, and I'm still working on it. Mostly it helps rationalizing that people are insane.
You are going to be a Great Father. Thank you.
I have sole custody. Still waiting on that child support check ha-ha! But when we shared him of course she was hounding me for support.
Sidebar quality material. Thank you.
I feel like I could manipulate her while staying on her good side so that I get 50/50 custody or whatever else you've won. Why am I wrong? GJ though man, seems like a long tough fought battle for an accident.
This is - perhaps - the paragon of TRP thinking. Masterful, mindful, an a graceful exposition of the 48 laws. Very well told. This is beautiful.
Damn, I just can't believe how fucked up this is. Like fucking OP come here and let me give a you damn hug. I know that shit is useless, but damn how the fuck do you it. Yeah AWALT, I swear the goddesses are rare in america. All I ever dealt with is woman who are into nothing but superficial bs, nothing no one here has never heard of but man, this shit frustrates me, not for me but just how I feel it's going to fuck up the U.S, idk, maybe I'm overreacting, but then again, I read this stories and say wtf... It's crazy how some women truly are just fucking horrible people. What really happened? I know, feminisim, but it confuses me. I've been to countries south of the U.S. and I see humble and more down to earth girls, and they aren't so batshit crazy. I can spot the ones that are but does all this stem from spoiling a woman from birth? Is it entitledment that causes such damage? Can women be raised to be kind and not so evil?
This guy pretty much nailed it on the head. The second you mess up and get a crazy preggo you have to prepare yourself. Mentally and financially. If you think it will never happen to you, do not lower your guard or else it will. Be smart. Wrap it up.
Holy shit excellent write-up. But it is devastating to see that is the best a man can hope for, in a child custody case against a dishonest woman.
You call it winning, and you have your daughter to live for, I suppose. As for myself, I would rather slit my throat than live enslaved to, and at the mercy of someone so evil (meaning your ex, not the daughter).
I always knew how bad it would be to get a girl accidentally pregnant, but holy shit reading this made me scared for my life. I think i'm just never going to have sex.
Man don't just give up... life is about taking risks...
I don't know if I'd call a man with months of effort, thousands of dollars spent and a spotless angelic record sharing 50/50 custody of his child with the mother with the track record you've described as "winning".
You didn't start with many options and you've made it this far in better shape than 99% of men in similar circumstances. Well done.
This needs to be stickied. Amazing. God bless you and good luck with your journey.
Isn't sperm donor route a lot cheaper, if the mother doesn't want a abortion, unless of course you want to get involve with the child's life.
Damn. How do you not just lose your cellphone at a mcdonalds, drive this bitch out to the desert and bury her?
Yeah... I'm gonna save this one, just in case
Congrats for handling it in this way and surviving it. I would say that's a huge feat and I'm very doubtful I could have held frame all this time. But it is also a HUGE warning. Don't ever do it without a condom. period. Even if you are already naked in her bed. Get up and leave.
Thank goodness for fathers like you. I'm glad you take responsibility for your actions, and for your child, and as such, you have likely saved another child from a broken single mother home.
cannot thank you enough for this. I'm in a similar situation, however the mother of the unborn child is choosing to try a relationship with an ex girlfriend of hers. This post gives me hope that it wont be a life ender... thank you.
Man i wish i had seen something like this 2.5 years ago. And boy did i search. But that was before i found reddit, and eventually trp. Because, of course, every guide on the internet is about what to do as an expecting mother. Luckily i can still use some of the advice from this, despite my boy now being 18 months old and having recently secured full physical and legal custody. Man i hope your situation has improved like mine has!
Save 20 percent of your income haha.
Oldie but goody. Wish I had read this before my incident.
Fortunately child custody laws and support do not affect me. I still take care of my so. Though, I just don't get raped by mommy since paying is optional for me.
Zen master patience and strategy, just like you said "Just imagine you're playing chess".
I just started 48v laws of power. Only up to v rule 4 but great read so far
Good post OP. Keep fighting the good fight. You are saving your daughter from growing up to be a completely devoid of character and morals woman like her mother.
One of the best posts I have ever read in this subreddit, you made a mistake and assumed all responsibility.
This is exactly how more people should react with women in general, just do your things, keep frame and act on what you can control.
You are a brave man and I'm sure this daughter will be raised well.
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He's making the best of a terrible situation but I agree that he shouldn't have gotten into that situation in the first place.
Is fucking strangers really worth it at all?
Someone else in this thread suggested giving out burner numbers and a fake name and I think that's a complete cop-out as well, don't do the crime (ten seconds) if you can't do the time.
If you are anti hook up culture you're in the wrong place.
I think he's pro common sense and condoms, not anti hook up.
If you are pro hookup culture you are buying into crazy bullshit like this unless you have a vasectomy. I'm not against hookups except for pregnancy. If you do that you HAD BETTER not get the woman pregnant because then you are in for a world of shit as this demonstrates.