Summary: Finally figured out the golden ticket to the most common shit test I face in my LTR.
Body: Last night, my LTR decided to shit test me. I don't remember what was the details were, because who cares. As her behavior continued to get worse, I immediately withdrew my affection and went to bed. She continued to press her luck until she finally broke and delivered the usual hail-Mary attempt that most women will make when faced with being wrong:
"I know that I'm wrong, but you don't have to be a dick about it."
Now this is a blatant attempt to expand the argument in order to try to make you give ground. Furthermore, that's what all arguments are about with women: trying to make you give ground. It doesn't matter if she's wrong, because you don't expect her to lead you anywhere. Everything depends on you being right, or at least believing that you're right, as captain of the ship. I came back with:
"Why do you expect to be treated right, if you're not acting right?"
This was the end of it. She got quiet, and later apologized. Now, dedicating an entire post to one shit test may seem overkill, but considering that AWALT, I'm assuming that every man will hear that shit test at least once in his life.
Lessons learned: -Always enforce the rule of "good behavior, good treatment." -She has nothing to lose and everything to gain by arguing.
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Beat me to this bro, here's the video
Another great (mostly) RP piece from Bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0gaYyNk7QA
Topics: Hypergamy, Arnold, Men's problems, Hypergamy again...
Lol he beat me to it also. I thought of the bit by the 2nd paragraph I was ready to hunt down the video and start transcribing it for my RedPill brethren
Halfway through the first paragraph I searched for this video.
Then I read the first comment, damn no karma for me.
An old drummer friend of mine showed up at my house with his then girlfriend. She had a right shiner of a black eye. "We had a fight - I was a dick" she said the minute I opened the front door.
Well talking to him the next day, it seems that after concocting an argument over nothing - when she realised she couldn't win, she fired off this zinger
"YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE, NO WONDER YOUR SISTER KILLED HERSELF"
He knocked her out. Hey, he's a drummer.
Holy shit what a cunt thing to say
Why do women do stuff like that though? Why do they habitually nag, insult, spread this fucking venom like a bunch of harpies? I know a woman who received a black eye after telling her lover that his daughter is a nothing - I know this woman, she's a cunt and has an unending supply of vitriol and is no-holds-barred when you get her started. But why does this story keep recurring? The one of toxic femininity?
In a word, hormonal. And the older they get the wilder it gets. I have finally got a handle on it with my SO, thanks to this place and age. Now when she starts getting that way she notes it and and say "ignore me I'll keep it to myself" and then "I must be gong mad" but that's after years of being tricked into the most ridiculous arguments.
I once worked in the public sector in an office of about 30 female managers with one male boss, and the evil bullying they put me through lead to me quitting.
I really do not like the idea of people who are capable of the most irrational mood swings and delusional thinking, and frankly cruel Machiavellian behaviour should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power - although admittedly most of the men that get up there are pretty crazed.
They can't fight with fists, so they resort to words... Although this could be changing with the policy of arresting males after household confrontations, even if you're literally defending your life.
They are used to getting away with so many things
Yeah well, she was a dirty girl and v. sexy so he tolerated it for the bumsex. But he carefully lined up the next one, so when she pulled it again she was out and the 19 year old was in.
Personally I think he needs to go his own way, 'cuz all these girls are a replacement for the dead sister, but fuck knows how you come to terms with that.
She had that planned for months.
pretty sure even other women would be okay with a slug to the noggin over that
no thats abuse. words dont hurt real men /s
" if you were a man, i would kill you for that. Since you are a bitch, you get to live. Now leave"
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Women are excused. Because they are children. And because these are words, not acts. If a "bro" said that shit to me, he would not have a black eye. He would probably be in a trauma ward somewhere.
A man would know the impact of his words. A woman, in her solipsism , would not. Her excuse would be that her emotions got the better of her. What's a males excuse? We are the more rational the more controlled and we feel not just in the moment. What "bro" is he of mine that would say that shit? If its a "bro" who said it.... heh thats not locker room talk. That's pure vemon from a male who should theoretically know better.
As for excusing women from conduct that would not be similarly excused from a male... as you know if you read anything in TRP or manosphere, males are much more replaceable. Women... wombs. less replaceable biologically.
" Any criticism of a woman ever" what is that, did you forget a word?
A woman gets the only punishment from me that I deem necessary: I remove my attention.
Pay attention folks. You are so butthurt that you see this as white knighting.
This is a loss of frame. Absolutely.
Do not confuse white knighting with loss of frame.
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they know venom. But unlike men, they do not and can not place themselves in our shoes to be rational about what they say when "upset"
My loss of frame in the comment does not excuse any action or words of a female.
consequences are different, however.
Do not confuse white knight and loss of frame.
Then when you call her names, the argument will turn into how you lost your temper and how much of a jerk you are for calling her names.
I like the quote. I've taught my LTR that I'm by no means afraid to leave her before I'll call her a cunt or react very negatively.
I leave her with nothing to say that I'm the bad guy other than not liking some aspects of her.
Yep, happens a lot. The biggest trick is to catch it happening fast, and punish the behavior.
"NO. You may not change the subject. We're talking about ________."
If she tries to change the subject again?
"NO. You may not change the subject. We're talking about ________."
Do it every time nice and stern like you're talking to a child. But you gotta catch it - they're good at slipping things in that totally make you lose frame. Experts, really.
Ever since adopting more and more TRP principles (and I'm by no means some alpha hawk), we argue so much less. I kinda miss it sometimes. It's mentally stimulating.
My ex was a master at this. I didn't catch on until after the divorce, lol.
And people say that I'm smart. Meh, I guess not so much.
Or only a week after the argument..... "Crap, that is what she really meant/did! I should have said so-and-so!" Well, as long as we learn from it - by the time we're 70, we're totally super-smart - as we have seen and heard it all.
Funny you post this. This weekend she just busted me for doing it to her. And I was indeed doing it (shifting the conversation a bit to get some extra sideways arguments in that weren't directly relevant to the discussion at hand).
Wasn't a big argument, but still funny... you can't fight them at their game. They will ruin you. Instead, bring them onto your battlefield.
Was a fun 'experiment' that I'll avoid when possible in the future.
The all-or-nothing strategy. It works, if you're not prepared.
One of the best pieces of advice my father ever gave me was "Don't argue with women. Just refuse to do it. It will make them crazy."
That was, I'm sure, the product of having two older sisters, a wife and three daughters, prior to my arrival.
I would probably lose frame after 1 week max.
He was ecstatic that I was a boy. By the time I came along, though, he had developed very strong Kung Fu, so I learned from a master.
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Women: The Most Responsible Teenager in the House.
My father gave me the same advice (3 sisters, 2 daughters and my Mom.) That being said, he got run over quite a bit. As my role model growing up, that very much affected me to the point, years later, I realized he was my issue with what I had become when reading No More Mr. Nice Guy.
I don't enjoy arguing with women, but I will very much defend myself, my actions and verbalize boundaries and issues that need to be addressed. I don't remember a time when my father really ever did that.
I used to do that. Now I just point to the door and tell them they can leave any time they want. On one occasion, I told a girl who was storming off that, "If you go out that door, don't bother ever coming back through it."
You'd have thought the handle was electrified. /grin
That said, there's nothing wrong with setting boundaries, etc., and really, the above applies more to women who insist on being a PITA. They either moderate their behavior or GTFO.
I also advise women the door is open and they don't need to stay.
They hate it. And love me for it. And hate me for it....
Missed this reply because of vacation but wanted to say, I understand what you're saying, very much so. My failing is I DO engage, too often. I'm still learning the STFU mode of operation. Verbalizing boundaries is much different than arguing, and I should just let it go.
Anyone with conviction would insist on that, but I guess that concept just doesn't get through to most women.
this is exactly what i do as well. they love to have long drawn out arguments, get lots of attention because of it, etc
if someone saw how i interact with women now you'd think i was actually half deaf. any of the stupid nonsense shit they say i just completely ignore like i didnt even hear it
thats their game, to say shit to needle you and affect you or at least get attention out of you. by ignoring it, they learn to just stfu or say it once and drop it when they get no reaction
Perfect response. Clean cut, right to the point. You give a woman an inch and she'll take a fucking mile. Excellent post.
After everything I've read on TRP over the years, treating women like they're children is still the best/most effective advice I've ever heard. The resemblance between the two is uncanny.
For guys who may not agree with this, having high SMV is key for a woman to be receptive to being treated like a child.
TRP is a cheat code to life.
Sometimes. It can be a two-sided coin.
Treating a woman like a child can also create the perception that your SMV is high.
I used to be a poorly-dressed soft-bodied fat-ass who routinely treated adult women the same way I treated my infant nieces. And women loved me for it. Getting into shape and dressing nicely came much later.
When you calibrate your aloof, amused dismissal of women, your SMV becomes high even in spite of a lacking appearance (though not as high as it could be with BOTH attributes refined).
Your SMV was higher than you realized it was, because you weren't willing to take shit from women, and, whether you believed it or not, they believed that you believed you were better than them. This, then, engaged their hamster, and since you never went about "proving" how you were better, they "proved" it for you, and loved you.
Or, to say it in fewer words: SMV is not defined solely by how you look, but also by how you act. You were acting the part well enough that it compensated for your physical appearance.
Indeed.
/u/look_good suggested that having a high apparent SMV is the most important part of being able to tease a woman.
But the act of playfully belittling her is itself a display of high SMV, which proactively makes her receptive to it.
Looking good can take the edge off a botched opener, but it cannot substitute for a lack of social skills once the conversation begins.
You're right, and the conclusion is that they are looking for 'daddies'.
This. I realize that self belief is such a powerful thing, think about it, if you truly believe you're an awesome person and everyone you speak too loves your company and want to be in your presence, this will illuminate outwardly.
Not really. Having a low SMV and treating women like they have the emotional capacity of a 12 year old isn't going to get you laid, but it will still help with your non-sexual relationships with women in other aspects of your life. Even in the workplace, women pull this shit all the time.
Inb4 we get called out for pedo fantasies
Everyone should be assumed to be a child, till they prove otherwise. Respect is earned.
Agree on this, everyone. I used to think that everyone was given respect, and then withdrawn when appropriate. (or in my extreme beta days, I would just try and figure out what I was doing wrong, and correct myself sadly). These days people actually have to earn my respect through their actions, and what surprised me as I started doing this was how much of a happier person I became. Because I started respecting myself.
There is a difference between standing your ground and not giving in to an argument and treating your women like a child imo. The first is fine, but the second is disrespectful.
I don't think this is meant to be taken quite THAT literally. You can't treat a woman EXACTLY like a child, but just try to understand that there are similarities that exist in behavioral patterns and handle them accordingly. I also think like anything, some women will have different maturity levels and display child like behavior more than others.
All that aside, as with everything in life, there is no one size fits all.
I also don't think that this would have to be disrespectful. I'm curious why you thought that. You love your kids, keep them safe.. Blah blah blah.. You don't have to be disrespectful or mean to your kids or talk down to them. I suppose in a sense a child wouldn't be your equal so there's that, but again, I don't think it's meant to be taken quite that literally. I think if I dated a girl that was that much of a child it'd be a huge turn off for me.
Anyway.. Hell.. You can probably even make this gender neutral and say the same thing about a childish guy in a relationship. In my own experience though, I've simply found women and have seen women display more of what I'd call childish behavior than men. (Game playing bullshit, being needy (because they are more emotional by their own biology), etc..)
Damn.. I've rambled. Apologies for the wall of text.
Yeah, but you don't pursue romantic relationships with men do you? You can't really make a fair comparison then. Besides, I think a lot of women would describe the behaviour that some posters here do (playing the dread game when they don't get what they want, not talking if they don't feel like it, thinking its okay when a man beds every women but not the other way around) as childish.
Actually, I think I can. Especially since I state in my own experience, and I'm old. Well older than most on here I think, and if you say that you can't make a fair comparison based on that, then no one could except people that were bi-sexual. For that matter though, I'm not only talking about romantic relationships, and I'm not only taking personal dating experience, but stories I've heard from friends, read about, or friends that have comes to me with problems. I don't think it is in any way limited to or focused on game playing at all.. that's a small part of it really. I think it also has to do with expectations and getting what you want as well. And maybe it is a straight 50/50 split of childish behavior across the genders. Even if that was the case, one person's experience could easily be tainted one way or the other, and that's all I was saying really.
Touche. Thinking about it, perhaps that is a bit childish? Eh.. Hell I don't know.. It's not really something I've ever done I think.
I don't think that's all that childish.
I don't know why this is, but it is. I have a theory that this actually goes back to evolutionary instinct. Maybe it's a thing where you want to make sure you pass on your own DNA or something, so you don't want other guys sleeping with your woman (or really any woman). I mean, it's not even like it's a culture thing. I don't know of any culture where a woman going out and sleeping with tons of guys is looked upon favorably. So you'd think the reason for this has to run deeper than some sort of cultural thing.
It's also harder for guys to get laid on average than women. Guys have to work for it whereas women can pretty much lift up a skirt at a bar.
Anyway, not fair.. I realize that.. Double standard.. Yep sure is.. But at the same time, it always bothered me to think about my girlfriends having slept with other guys. I just didn't like it. Women though, they were fine. Having a threesome with two women? Fine. My girlfriend having had lesbian affairs in the past? Fine.. I always chalked that up to women having parts I didn't, so it was ok, but perhaps also I never perceived them as a threat.
You make fair points. What I mean to say is that even though both genders act childish at times (which gender more is up for debate), but that doesn't make it okay to treat them like a child.
And maybe not you personally, but a lot of posters here display a stunning lack of self-awareness to childish behaviour. "She turned me down for sex once so I went to the bar and started hitting on other women. And she got angry! Sigh, women are so childish and emotional."
This is beta-level thinking; take it out of your head immediately.
This strategy is definitely not disrespectful. What it actually does is put her below you on the ladder, which is where she belongs and craves to be placed. What has your chick done recently that makes her deserve to be treated as superior?
She doesnt deserve to be treated superior. She deserves equal. Below me on the ladder isn't equal.
Cool beans. Different strokes, I suppose.
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Demonstrate. Don't explicate.
You're clearly new here, so allow me to give you a formal welcome: Read the damn sidebar before posting. It's clear you don't understand the first thing about TRP.
This isn't a debate sub, nor is it one where everyone is equal. Now get reading.
That's your problem right there. Acta, non verba Demonstrate, don't explicate. Women talk, men do.
Remember to Agree & Amplify.
Tell her you're not going to discuss this until she decides to start acting rationally and deprive her of your time, your attention and your presence until she behaves better.
u/D-White I guess this is the answer you are looking for
The problem isn't the knowledge: the fault is in your implementation. You don't tell her she's acting immature, you simply cut off your attention and time.
Show her you won't tolerate her nonsense with your actions.
Well I disagree. If you treat her respectfully she will win, respect is due to superiors and equals. A woman is not your equal.
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You're still sucking blue pill teat if you really think this. Turn off all the feminist programming and think, honestly and objectively, in what arena your wife could truly best you in a head to head contest. Hard to do, isn't it? She's a master manipulator and expert seductress. Most women are. Beyond that, you probably dominate her across the board. Your wife is not your equal. Your job is not to say that, it is to demonstrate it day in and day out. Do that and she will come to respect you on her own.
We may not be equally skilled, but that says nothing about her value as a human being. It's not "feminist" for me to say that my wife has inherit worth.
Someone's worth is not determined by their ability to do things. My 2 year son can't do shit that anyone other than his parents would care about, but his inability to best me doesn't make him worth less than me as person. And I would gladly demonstrate principle in giving my life to save his. Just like I would give my life to save my wife if need be.
Thinking objectively is an oxymoron
If that's what you think, that's where you start failing.
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Don't be afraid to make your wife mad.
I see all kinds of bad in your post.
Do you care to be constructive or are you just trying to be an ass?
Do you care to be polite, or are you content to wallow in your ignorance?
Are you being sarcastic or genuinely in need of some homework to help you understand ?
Don't talk down to me for disagreeing.
If you want to discuss further, stow your passive aggressive jabs and let's talk.
All theory yet no practical understanding of what it means. I blame the internet, knowing has become so easy that it has replaced learning and understanding.
Disagree if you will, but first demonstrate the ability to have applied it properly in practice. Currently you're like a guy who knows the theory behind squats and form, then does it for 3 months and says "squats aren't that good for legs but damn they're amazing for lower and mid back"
As I originally said, I have tried that and gotten negative results. I've been married for five years. How long have you been married?
Perfect response because it doesn't even bring gender in to it either. It's just a simple "You can't expect sanity in an insane conversation."
I disagree. Telling a woman that she's wrong never gets you anywhere. It only makes her resent you for pointing it out.
All you really need to do is maintain confidence in yourself that you are right. You don't have to rub it in her face or even mention it. She will pick up on your confidence and your brushing-off of her wrongness, and she will quickly fall right back into your frame.
The thing that most men will do is they will brush off a woman's mistake as nothing. But that only encourages her to continue making mistakes.
Your notion of her resenting you for calling her out on her wrong doings is from a logical perspective. From her perspective, she is likely to resent you for NOT pointing out her mistakes because "you're allowing her to make mistakes."
Does this make any sense from a logical perspective? Absolutely not. But when push comes to shove, she will re-spin her narrative in such a way that it benefits her. She is not used to being told that she's doing/saying something wrong. She may be peeved at first that she isn't getting away with it, but she'll respect you more because you aren't doing what most every other man in her life has done.
I dunno, this whole idea of treating women with respect and expecting them to make responsible decisions is foreign to me. People here say that you should treat women like children. But the difference is that children can learn and modify their behaviors, whereas adult women do not.
Respect is earned not given. You don't have to give them your respect, especially if they have not done enough to warrant being respected.
Women already know what "proper" behavior is. They aren't savage beasts. But why would women behave properly, if they can get away with improper behavior? Especially when the misconduct is more instantaneously gratifying.
That is where men come in. It is a man's responsibility to establish limits for the women they interact with. You can't let her get away with shit.
Hmm, well I'm not saying you "let them get away with it". Denying them affection, etc. is the right thing to do, you have to let them know that you're displeased with their behavior, but telling them as such is not productive. You make them feel the consequences rather than expressing the problem.
Except OP didn't "tell" her she was wrong. He withdrew affection and she introspected and realized she was wrong.
I think that when women are surrounded by attention & validation, they get more confident and as a result, they aren't very introspective - leading them to act however they want no matter how wrong. Withdrawing the affection/validation activates those "Oh shit! What could I have done wrong?" circuits and they either apologize to try to win back approval or get mad and make you the bad person so they don't have to admit they were wrong.
I disagree completely. This breaks down in both the NMMNG and WISNIFG books. You set boundaries, and you communicate your needs. You let her know when she violates those, which includes saying, "that was wrong."
Not letting her know she was wrong only enforces or continues to allow the bad behavior.
But he did let her know she was wrong - she admits that she was wrong, and complains of his method of letting her know because his method was effective at changing her behavior. If he were to have talked with her about her behavior, this would be in a medium that's right in her wheelhouse, and he would have lost the argument by continuing it.
Communication can be non-verbal, and with women, is more effective.
Hey, sorry for the late reply due to vacation. Thanks for this tip. Even though I've actually seen and used it, I didn't look at it as non-verbal communication of the same issue I may have communicated about verbally.
I honestly operate by putting those things out there as soon as they happen. This means for me I tend to verbalize those issues. "Hey, I don't appreciate when you do suchandsuch." I set the boundaries early. I've not been in my LTR that long, so those things tend to come up more often than a longer relationship or marriage.
I should shut the fuck up a lot more and withdraw.
OTOH, there is such a thing as a covert contract. Read all about them over on the Married Red Pill sub.
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Great post OP.
Just remember that repeating words loses their effectiveness, you have to vary the answer, sometimes just allude to a previous engagement, especially so in an LTR.
This is key... so much better response from my wife when I say "what did we agree to last time we discussed this?" and leave it at that, versus trying to explain again why she can't have what she wants.
That's a particular phrase that hasn't yet lost effectiveness. I think maybe because each of the discussions I"m referencing had various outcomes, so this statement can trigger a myriad of emotional responses, depending on what I am referencing to.
Possibly also because the idea of a prior agreement immediately puts her and me on the same side. But that seems logical, so I'm not sure I can bank on that explanation...
The typical pattern is the woman gets you charged up through her drama, then you agree "to talk" and you then give ground slowly and she "permits" the drama to decline as long as you are an obedient beta. If within the talking phase you resist she will then increase the pain (drama) until you bend to her will.
So the OP did the right thing to accept that war is there and fight it head on as a man must do to preserve his position.
Women knock you down when you "think" you are the peacemaker.
Alpha's will end the war before it starts with strong frame.
Beta's will submit to the women's will and bend to whatever she demands.
A good focused post.
.
The words "lets talk this out," usually mean "let me talk at you until you agree with me."
Never give them a leg to stand on.
Patrice O'Neil: ''You hear about conceding a battle to win the war. With women, don't even fucking concede a single battle!''
Well done OP.
Good man!
Take note LTR newbies.
The only thing I would add is that this post is a good example of "Punish swiftly, reward intermittently." from Heartiste. A lot of guys don't know that their time and attention is valuable to women so removing it quickly when they act up is an excellent tactic.
This is one aspect of TRP I want to have greater understanding of. I have an LTR (7 months) and dumped her hard a month ago (took all her shit from my home, put it in a plastic bag and hung it around her door with no explanation). Two weeks later, I conditionally accepted her apology and took her back only as a FWB. I asked her to show up at my home naked, write me a check for $500, take a pic of it between her teeth and text me the pic and wait for me to let her in. Worked like a charm.
Since then, she's been paying for dinner, booze, and even toilet paper. She makes great money and I told her she had to step it up in the contribution dept.
Two nights ago, while on her period and being a bitch, she bemoaned the times when I bought her clothes and boots and required certain sexual tasks to be completed to gain "points".
I feel my beta male traits growing stronger, wanting to start buying her shit again, but my new Alpha side says, "Hold on old soul, do less and expect more".
So your admonishment to "punish quickly, reward intermittently" did work very well, it's maintaining that that my beta part worries just a tad about, because I am not used to using these muscles.
How would you describe her respect level before and after the nuke?
I should clarify that I've been going thru some very very difficult custody issues with my ex and our daughter, who is 16, now, and that I informed my SO that I was going thru something (this was about a week prior to the nuke) and that I would fill her in once I had more information. Well, when I did fill my SO in, she went totally ballistic, showed me no compassion, no empathy and no understanding, only an interrogative barrage of questions and insults where I ultimately lost frame, got very angry, physically removed her from my home, put her in her car and told her to leave, which she did....the next day (yes I allowed her back in as I am only aBitClearer and struggling with applying TRP in my daily life).
So to answer your question, her respect level was generally very high, and her submission to me, both sexually and otherwise was almost unparalleled by her predecessors. But her cold, interrogative and defensive reception to my (understandable) pain was too much for me to accept, so I hard nexted her with a certain amount of fury.
Since then, she has returned to her high level of respect, save only her period infused coming unglued at me two nights ago.
She has begged and pleaded with me to never leave her again, to which I have responded, quite apropos to the meat of OP's thread, that so long as she doesn't act like a cold-hearted cunt, I won't.
Could I have responded better?
I'm still a newb to RP, but, I'm wondering if you should have told her any of this...
Of course, you resolved it quite splendidly, I'd say. Balls of Steel!
I shared too much: I shared almost everything, and that was my error. I've learned from it, and now have an understanding, albeit foggy, that details of my emotional struggles are to be minimal if at all.
My SO knows I have 50/50 custody and she would have been surprised when she didn't see my daughter on my days, so perhaps telling my SO that my daughter is staying with her mother for a while would have been sufficient.
You did amazing. You walked away, which made it crystal clear that you could carry on perfectly well without her. This disempowered her sex card and reinforced your control of commitment.
I just wondered if there was a noticeable change in respect as the power shifted back into your hands.
Now that I read TRP (for 2 months or so), I see I (in your shoes) would have not told her too much about my ex and divorce (as /u/juliusstreicher said) - the more you share, the more she mulls over it, the more she can hold against you (if only in her female 'thinking'!) and the more it clouds your relationship with her. Reversely, do not expect any sympathy from her: she doesn't care about your emotions (because 'real men have no emotions'), she only cares about her own - and how they affect your relationship with her. Share the headlines only, from now on - and only if she asks about it (which will be sparsely, as she knows you will divulge very little anyway).
You could have responded something more vague: "Well, that is completely up to you" (making her responsible for your behavior (= outcome) - but knowing you can and will next her - which is now easier for you, as you did so already). Have her guess and work for your acceptance and approval of her - the first man ever in her life that dared to stand up against her (I suppose - as BP rules).
The only part I would work on is her period-PMS-crap. Yes, it is not her fault, but you are not her punchbag - she needs to learn to handle it - do online research, talk to her gyno (make her go, and if needed, even join her, so she realizes you're serious - and, she can't make up some story later on).
Other than that, you did great. Kudos. It is critical to let her know you can do without her and that you are prepared to walk away (or send her away). It will only grow her respect, and she now has to redeem and prove herself to you: a man (!) that doesn't accept her tantrums and demands.
What you did earlier was a clear indicator that you are willing to pull away your time and attention, this had the effect of breaking through her otherwise unchallenged nonsense. Likely because she was not looking forward to being single or she felt dread at the thought of you being with another woman.
Here are a few tips to help you along the way:
Weakness is a target painted on your back, you are going to need to examine those times when you are in a state of weakness and expect her to capitalize on that vulnerability. Hard day at work? Expect a shit test. If she does not shit test you then carry on but don't let your life situation wear you down in front of her until you are certain she won't strike. Even then, reserve a little bit of "fuck you".
Understand that you are being rewarded as well. Usually women try to use sex for this but you should not respond. Instead you have to frame her sex with you as her role in the relationship and optionally as a reward you grant her. Remember, no one should be able to control you. Even via sweet sweet sexytime.
Examine your past beta mistakes and take notes on what led up to them. Did you neglect your health then wonder why she stared at other men? Did you buy her things to resolve her pouting? These sorts of mistakes are likely to resurface and they are things that she knows how to manipulate to her advantage. Fix those mistakes as you venture towards the version of yourself that does not make them any more and watch as the passion in her re-ignites for the man she (now) knows can handle her.
Good luck.
" Likely because she was not looking forward to being single or she felt dread at the thought of you being with another woman"
She is an attention whore and, although she is more than willing to have a FFM threesome (she is attracted to women), she does not want me to be with another woman without her, and certainly not without her permanently.
As to your second point, I lead our sexual relationship. She never denies me anything I want, anal, oral, pictures, videos, role-play, and even threesomes, although the last is still unrealized. I told her that the moment our sexual dynamic changes (I lead, she follows), there will be natural consequences, like me withdrawing my attention or refusing to listen to her stories, or give her advise on how to handle X or Y circumstance. She dreads this and I want to keep it that way, but I am still a recovering beta, and struggle maintaining the ground I've "fought" so hard to achieve.
As to my health, I am lean and in good shape. I want to add some muscle, but have so far put that on the back burner. Perhaps I should make that a priority, as it is mentioned in this subreddit quite often. No, I never bough her things to deal with her bitchy ways, and since I do know what looks good on a woman's body, I have bought her some custom dresses, but only after she had enough "points" accrued. Since getting back with her (oh, we are a couple again) I have not reinstated the point system, something she wants back badly!
Thank you for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
And would emphasis the reward intermittently . Too many are to quick to reward. For example many guys would have succumb to ""I know that I'm wrong, but you don't have to be a dick about it." They would have thought boom I've won and she has surrendered, instead of viewing that statement for what it really was and realising what falling for the trap would mean
Just when we can tell when the girl "wants the D" women can do the same when you act like a pussy.
One thing I'm learning about Abundance is don't be afraid to walk away ever. You hold the power if you do that constantly, even if you are slightly faking.
Its beautifully poetic but can be applied to even men "treat others how they treat you." If someone is a cunt to you, then why be nice to them? Same with girls, do not let them get away with acting like a nob, and just withdraw all the things she wants when shes being nice.
You did well, you went to bed, you ignored her. She knows she's being a dick.
I remember my mum was on menopause and acting like a total wanker. I used to rise to her level, and shout and kick and scream constantly when she was like it, as I didn't tolerate how irratic she is (my mums out of control by the way). Anyway I remember being at a family party overhearing her talking "oh I've been out of order recently, losing my temper over simplest things. Ive been unfair to the boys, but oh well."
Soon as I heard that I realised how women are literally all the same. She knew she was being a twat, but she still did it. They know they are wrong etc. Just don't tolerate it or rise to it. With your mum its different. But with LTRs and plates, put them in their place.
For clarity, the only difference between your female family members and your non-family females is that you aren't trying to sleep with your family members (unless you are, I guess?).
Otherwise, all rules still apply. Your mom: AWALT.
Can you clarify if rising to your mothers level worked or that after you stopped rising to her level it worked?
You do not raise to their level, you do not enter their frame. Stay stoic.
You don't 'rise' to their level, as their level is lower than yours (name-calling etc.) - always keep that mindset - yes, it makes you look arrogant, but it gives you much stronger frame to remain stoic. However, once you break frame, and lower yourself to her level, she realizes you're seriously mad - that then has a huge impact in itself, and she usually backs down. It doesn't make sense, it's a delicate balance...
http://1.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/50/27/0d41808f60af8871fa122b3b0f37ab1b.gif
Arguing with a woman is like wrestling in the mud with pigs.
You get real dirty and the pigs love it.
Unsourced, but commonly attributed to George Bernard Shaw as:
[deleted]
...and then strut around the board like she won the game.
Awesome approach to people generally.
Dude, if you act like a man you'll be treated like a man. Good work.
I think many SJWs do that too; seems like an attempt to save face. Granted, I have pride too, but ultimately guys would man up and own up to their faults, instead of playing games like that.
Wonderful observation. Fucking on point.
Bullseye.
Fucking perfect.
The succinctness of your reply is what made it so effective. Fundamentals executed perfectly, you did not jump into her frame you kept on the offensive and you kept it short.
Well done.
Yo when she says you 'don't have to be a dick about it'. She's either throwing a shit test and/or being playful. Seems like a bitch move to get all grumpy.
I'm like "well the sun doesn't have to shine either. But guess what. It still does, because he's the fucking sun"
Use with caution around chicks that hate egomaniacs.
Simple and beautiful statement, gonna steal this mate!
I'm going to be a dick about your wording: "Why do you expect to be treated right, if you're not acting right?"
She could/will interpret that as if you will treat her 'wrongly' - but as we all know, women are eager to point out that 2 wrongs don't make a right....
Make it something: "Why do you expect me to respect you, if you're not acting right?" - respect being something very important these days, as women feel men don't respect them for who they are. Now it's her turn to show you respect.
I get what you're saying, but the whole point is that she has admitted that she's in the wrong and is now trying to pivot the center of the argument onto my behavior and response. It is already established that I'm being a dick/treating her wrongly. The crux of the retort is that "I have no incentive to treat you right when you act like this"
I tried to convey it was about semantics - of course you need to respond that way to her. However, I have had emotional reactions about wording it like that, so I was making you aware of it.
Yep. I immediately saw the two edged blade as well.
She gave him a shit test, he slaps it down and she apologizes. I don't see anything that needs to be corrected.
Point being was the word "right". He WAS treating her "right" (appropriately). The OP juxtaposed her bad behavior, "not acting right", meaning "evil". So, the danger in the wording was that it could, fairly, be interpreted as "I'm being evil because you aren't acting properly", which would mean overkill on his part.
For people, such as me and (I'm assuming) BradPill, who are more keenly attuned to semantics, this sticks out like a sorethumb/redflag, as a tool for some lawyer/judge/cuntfeminist/juror to hang onto and drill further into one's marrow.
BradPill DOES give the deserved accolades; he just points out that the poster could have had a bit more of a sticky wicket than he did.
I think it was my court-reporter ex (she was pretty sharp, excellent with words and quite emotional/sensitive) - she had been married before, we both were/are (most likely) a bit older than OP.
When I would say something like that, it only escalated the situation as she heard (!!!) I would not treat her 'right' any longer - like it was retaliation (or giving up on the relationship) from my side, as opposed to finding a constructive way to fix our problem. At first I had no clue what she meant, but in the end even I got it (as she was more versed in relational communication).
So, it is not the fact that you say it - it's how you say it.
"Lessons learned: -Always enforce the rule of "good behavior, good treatment." -She has nothing to lose and everything to gain by arguing." We should inform Princess Celestia immediately! XD
was that an MLP reference on TRP?
Now that's a one in a life time event, no? XD
I don't recall most of their lessons being TRP compatible past "Stand up for yourself"
These weak shit tests are pretty hilarious after you are well practiced dealing with them. You must not give any fucks.
This morning my wife woke me up at 3:45 AM to ask me "Did you bring the baby monitor upstairs? Where is it? I knew you would forget it!" 3:45 AM. I knew this was just the start of her testing me after she finished her period. Her hamster has to know if I'm man enough to handle her.
"It's on the dresser. Go to sleep."
Woke up at 6 as usual and the shit tests began immediately. I went and got the 1 year old up, changed her diaper, got her dressed. Shit tests all throughout. I ignore.
Her: "Why do you have resting bitch face this morning? getting your man period? Here's some midol for your cramps"
5-10 minutes later she hasn't stopped. I haven't said a word except to the kids.
"God, you are such a dick giving me the silent treatment like that works at all. You must really hate me."
I walk right up to her somewhat aggressively and she takes a step back. I get right in her ear and whisper
"No, but I am going to hate fuck your wet cunt and slutty asshole tonight and make you cum over...and over...and over again."
Kiss on the forehead. Out the door. No contact rest of the day. Have received a couple "sweetheart" txts which I ignore. I'm kicking ass at the office, going to see Star Wars and have some beers after work while she watches the kids and I know she's thinking about nothing but getting railed tonight. Her shit attitude went the way of a fart in a hurricane. Poof.
You're essentially rewarding her with "mind-blowing sex" for acting like a total cunt. The fact that you said "hate fuck" goes in one ear and out the other the second you say "make you cum over...and over...and over again".
True. I'll work on it. I def have trouble with phrasing off the cuff
I can't believe you married that.
Me either. Although she's hot and the massive shit testing only happens right after her period.
Shit test isn't the right term for this type of behavior. It's abuse. I went through it with the second wife.
Is it still abuse if I don't give a single fuck about what she's saying? Guess I'm just used to it/ready for it the one day out of the month
Hmm.. Just like my neighbour who gives his dog a treat to get it to stop barking in the back yard.
this sounds like fucking hell on earth. what are you doing man?
Dealing with a complete bitch of a wife for 3 days out of the month and fucking like rabbits after I put her in line. What are you doing?
some guys do this too, just can't argue with them
"Just as it was your choice to be wrong, it is my choice to be a dick about it."
No, you aren't actually being a dick. Don't give her ammunition.
He wasnt being a dick. She is shit-testing him by trying to make him feel guilt.
Lurk more
"good behavior, good treatment."
What the fuck is wrong with you. You sound like you're talking about your fucking dog. Fucking treat her with respect and equality while also realizing that equality means that you're allowed to stand your ground in some arguments as long as you're also willing to compromise in others.
Women are huskys. You can treat one with respect but unless you put your foot down and lead the pack, sooner or later you'll start suffering escalating shit tests
Respect is earned and can be revoked at any time. The issue with the beta mindset (you) is that you believe that you're obligated to provide certain things (energy, time, affection) regardless of what you get in return.