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2.5 million men 'have no close friends'; Lets Brainstorm How to Make Friends post-College

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LastRevision
February 8, 2016
717 upvotes
TheRedPill

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11996473/2.5-million-men-have-no-close-friends.html

I'll admit, this article hit home. As I've watched my social circle dwindle over the past few years, I'm realizing that as a man over-30, it's very very difficult to make new friends... and while it's somewhat reassuring to know I'm not alone with this struggle, I don't look forward to an Army-of-One future where I'm thriving in all other aspects of my life, and I come home to nothing.

So, first, why do men have such a tough time making/maintaining friendships:

  • Men do not have an in-group preference for one another. Like all things feminists, the "boys club" trope is total bullshit. Men are usually thrilled to White Knight/virtue signal and let a girl into their club. Women, conversely, do have an in-group preference which means it's much easier for them to make friends (even if those friendships are superficial). Think of being in a new environment; a man will usually sit alone while a woman will have no problem sitting with the other women there.

  • Male spaces have been contaminated. Furthermore, men have been contaminated too by the female imperative. This means that not only do men not have an area to congregate and speak openly, but even if they did, chances are there are White Knights present to limit/police authentic discourse (not that conversation must be limited to gender realism, but women do not face any restrictions when speaking with one another). And, of course, when a male space is contaminated and made uni-sex, immediately all men present must play by the Girls Rule playbook.

  • Married men/men in LTR are discouraged from outside friendships. And isn't that fucked up?

  • There is more social pressure on men, and men respond to this by opting out. Women face no social pressure, and you'll notice they often speak freely when talking to new people. Men feel pressure to meet a certain standard, and understand that they are under constant judgment from others, and often times will just say fuck it and avoid talking to new people. I've found that unless I push myself around new people, or at work, that I'll often only speak when I have something of value to contribute to a conversation... while this makes sense, logically, it isn't the best way to be social. RSD Tyler had a really eye-opening video about this where he dissects nerd talk/vibing; people DO NOT look for nerd talk in casual socialization- people look for vibing; or, bringing a fun/happy/positive presence to people, rather than having lots of value in the things you're literally saying.

  • Men seem to think there is something unmasculine about male friendships. You'll notice there is A LOT of social conditioning in this direction; where on a sitcom, if they represent men getting together in a group, it's always something like men sitting in the woods, without shirts, banging on drums, or some bullshit. This is to convey to the average man that male friendships are faggy. And I can see naturally feeling that way, because seeking male friendship is almost like an admission of need- we need to move past feeling this way (or, at least, I do).

So, with that said, can we brain storm how a man post-college, or over 30, can make new friends?


Post Information
Title 2.5 million men 'have no close friends'; Lets Brainstorm How to Make Friends post-College
Author LastRevision
Upvotes 717
Comments 387
Date 08 February 2016 12:45 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/39351
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/44qqum/25_million_men_have_no_close_friends_lets/
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Comments

[–]rickaboy92 points93 points  (23 children) | Copy

This has been discussed on here a few times before.

First up - The way that men and women socialise amongst themselves are different. Men for example, are more likely to get competitive in social scenarios (sports, cars, women) etc.

Men are more likely to bond around hobbies. So think of some stuff you're good at, and go place yourself in a situation where you can demonstrate your ability. Eg. If you're good at a particular sport, find a club to play in. If you're a good handy man, maybe do a car maintenance course or something to learn/refine/hone skills.

Also, as people get older (over 30) they are less likely to try new things. So, learn a NEW skill. Try stand-up comedy, a new sport, take up salsa. Whatever strikes your interest.

It is certainly incrementally harder to build close friendships the older you get. Good luck.

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]UCISee5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Truthfully I know exactly where you're coming from. Nothing really interests me except for self improvement. Whether that be financial, physical, mental, whatever. It's hard to find someone else, who's also sporting external genitals, to bond with on that. Gym friends give the "Nice gains!" etc. but beyond that, it's floating.

Even before TRP I started to notice fakers as I got older. The more introspective you become, the easier it is to spot the bullshit coming your way. It really sucks, but I think thats what being a man truly is. My dad is single and over 50. Slams out women kind of regularly but ditches them quick, works on the car, reads, just generally keeping busy. The big difference is he still has his High School friends because he never left town. On the opposite side of the coin my 'close friends' span the entirety of a continent. I cant just cruise down the street when I feel like BS'ing. Can't say that an epic suicide by cop hasn't crossed between these ears. Maybe a Dead Presidents 2.0. I talk to a lot of my buddies and they feel the same. No desire to have our souls sucked out by some succubus, but therefore lacking the 'companionship' our fathers had.

I'll keep you posted if I find an answer, but as for this moment:

TL;DR: I feels ya daeg

[–]sharp71 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

There has to be cool guys around. Just aren't looking strategically or hard enough. But I guess that's what this thread is about. Its tough now adays.

I eventually just kind of gave up and went to live nearby old college friends for now.

[–]UCISee4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I mean, what is cool to you? In high school it was dudes who dressed like me. That basically sums it up. Now its people with the same interests as me. Seeing as how humans are all naturally different, event the people I agree with most of the time, make me want to gouge my eyes out at other times.

I found some solace in cross training gyms and basically winning. But even this that glitters is not gold. Eventually you figure out some people aren't genuine and are just talking to you because you both naturally produce test.

Meanwhile my GF hates 90% of her friends and constantly talks about how fake they are etc. then goes out for drinks with them. You know what I absolutely don't do? Drink with people I don't like. Women seem to look for connection anywhere and everywhere even when there isn't one, then call these fake ass people their friends. I would rather have four good friends than eight 'friends.'

[–]sharp71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would rather have four good friends than eight 'friends.'

Agreed. That's a big reason of why I went back to my old friends. One true close friends is better than infinite fakers.

I'm going to try to be more active, maybe get into some old hobbies like BJJ or try some new ones like climbing and hiking to try and get some more friends but its so hard now adays.

But sometimes I think that probably won't be enough and I'm going to have to just figure out how to be okay alone or through the net. Be active in forums or blog to get my conversational needs out, and try to meditate to reduce the need for other things. Not sure.

[–]TRPhd0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Have you tried a private pilot's license?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I played around with cessnas for a bit, but its not that exciting to me. Mostly a money hole.

[–]lost_lurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

...figured I would just focus on financial independence, and getting a kayak to go paddle with a dog in if I don't blow my brains out before then.

Well that escalated quickly... I think hobbies are the way to go. If you like kayaking get involved with a kayak group and actively select people from these groups that you like and start trying to hang with them more.

[–]lost_lurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

...figured I would just focus on financial independence, and getting a kayak to go paddle with a dog in if I don't blow my brains out before then.

Well that escalated quickly... I think hobbies are the way to go. If you like kayaking get involved with a kayak group and actively select people from these groups that you like and start trying to hang with them more.

[–]lost_lurker0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

...figured I would just focus on financial independence, and getting a kayak to go paddle with a dog in if I don't blow my brains out before then.

Well that escalated quickly... I think hobbies are the way to go. If you like kayaking get involved with a kayak group and actively select people from these groups that you like and start trying to hang with them more.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Moved two years ago to an area without much water to paddle on. Will figure something out though!

[–]lost_lurker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Try one of the meet up sites that focuses on hobbies and shared interests. No matter where you are there is always shit to do by yourself or socially.

My recommendations are If you are active get involved in a hiking group. Caving groups are cool too if you want something a bit more exotic. Hobbies that center around physical activities are great because like 75% of ppl are sedentary and uninteresting so just by joining a group that goes out and does shit your filtering out a lot of bad apple's. Also physical activity is just as effective for treating depression as antidepressants.

[–]Dr_HoaxArthurWilmoth0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel you. I really do.

That said, a kayak and a dog are two outstanding options. Two of the best decisions I have made in the past 5 years since I turned 30.

The absolute BEST decision, buying a truck for the first time. How the fuck does every guy not own A truck, or have a second truck?

Those three things combined, really, so simple and obvious, have improved my quality of life 10 fold.

I went to a superbowl party with around 20 strangers too, invited by my one local good friend. Pretty good time, all pretty vanilla and rehearsed. One fat chick was more bro tier than all the other dudes, real disappointing.

[–]kielfear0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How does one try stand up comedy? I love comedy, I watch it all the time but I have no idea where to start with story telling to get laughs. Serious question, I'd love to get into this.

[–]SendTheCookies6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

write like 5 minutes of material and look for an open mic at a comedy club. Everyone sucks at the beginning because it takes a while to find your voice.

[–]mugatucrazypills2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I suggest the book "Comedy Writing Secrets" talks about how to write the underlying stories/methods behind good comedy.

And an improv class, and open mic night as suggested above.

Toastmasters if you're just shy about speaking.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If you're good at a particular sport

really you don't have to be good at anything, just have a common interest. If you go to a place where it's something you enjoy, and have a normal personality, you'll find friendships can start adding up.

whether it's the shooting range, basketball court at the gym/park, driving range, car show, etc - I have made friends at all those places because most other guys there will enjoy talking over a shared interest

so all you really have to do is get out there and be normal/outgoing and a person will find that they will end up talking to people they didn't expect

[–]rickaboy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Yes. This is why I made the suggestion to also take up new hobbies as well.

The reason I stated to participate in things you are good at is because it if you are good at something and that's recognisable you will earn respect within the group by default. That makes other social interactions easier.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah for sure

i just wrote that because i've heard plenty of people not do something because "im not that good" or "ill suck", as soon as they get an excuse in their head they dont even bother

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

The stand-up and improv crowds are rife with losers and the socially ill. I would not recommend comedy as a route to finding stable, interesting male friends. The most you're likely to find are people who use your attention as a commodity.

[–]rickaboy-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude you're missing the forest for the trees. I wasn't saying specifically that was what you should do.. I was just handing out examples of what one could do.

[–]White_Phillip0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

One thing you're missing is that it's a real skill to turn acquaintances into friends. Putting yourself around like-minded men is a necessary step, but you need the social skills to turn those people into friends outside that hobby or skill. Seeing as most newbies here are social retards it's worth going over how to gain those skills.

[–]rickaboy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes this is true - it is a skill to turn acquaintances into friends. For me personally, I would suggest trying to bond with those around you. After a while you could suggest that you're going to an event that others might be interested in going to and see who might want to come along.

Certainly, it is tricky. Especially post 30.

[–]10xdada115 points116 points  (64 children) | Copy

Men do shit with guys they have something in common with. It's "activity friends." If you are lucky, you will have a friend who isn't an activity friend, but these are rare.

  • Get a motorcycle with carbs, or an american style v-twin.
  • Learn to sail.
  • pilots license.
  • classic car.
  • race cars
  • hunt.
  • golf.
  • shoot.

You need a craft.

[–]B_uckets59 points60 points  (23 children) | Copy

The problem with these suggestions is that people are so fucking poor these days. All my 30-ish friends are still paying off student loans and living with roommates in shitty apartments to cut down on bills. If you ask them to do anything other than stay in and drink, the answer is "Sorry, I'm too poor". Obviously they word it differently because they're almost ashamed to admit it at this age, but the message is the same.

[–]SpeakerToRedditors 44 points44 points [recovered] | Copy

Frisby golf is popular amongst poor stoners

[–]1mr_nate_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This. Good mixture of old and young.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy

man reading this is pretty depressing, but it's ultimately very very true. How sad is it that in this day and age, we can honestly say your average 30 year old is too poor to afford one good hobby lol

[–]mugatucrazypills16 points17 points  (8 children) | Copy

it's brutal, like society just tossed a whole crop of young men

wait a minute ... no .... if you have money for booze you have money for a hobby

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

eh not really dude. buying a 30 pack of shit beer or a low-mid range bottle once every two weeks does not translate to being able to afford a motorcycle or having the money to invest in cars. You can still probably afford SOME hobbies if you forego that small amount of expense, but they're certainly not fancy. I'm sorry ,but if you cannot afford to do at least one expensive hobby while purchasing a small amount of ok booze, your life sucks, period.

[–]Diarrhea_Van_Frank5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm a musician, so I manage to have a really expensive hobby while basically scraping by.

[–]mugatucrazypills1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

pick a cheaper hobby ... go for a run

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

yeah that's great, but that's not a hobby that you're likely to meet many other people doing is the point.

[–]RedSugarPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Here is a social running club that is worldwide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers

[–]TRPhd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Make booze your hobby... brew homemade wine and beer. There is an equipment cost to start, but if you know someone who already knows how they can get you deals or even sell you used gear.

Like all male hobbies, though, the better you get at it the more you will want to spend on it.

[–]Raikkonen7169 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

I remember one guy once told me that in order to be successful you need to know successful people. And the best thing you could do in order to build some connections was to go in some golf club. Not many poor guys there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

golf might be the most affordable hobby of the whole bunch, so it's an idea!

[–]Raikkonen7161 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mmm maybe in Us, here in Europe not exactly..

[–]Raikkonen7161 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Mmm maybe in Us, here in Europe not exactly..

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire216 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

On the flip side, guys with money are as choosy as women regarding who they elect to fraternize with. If you don't offer them some immediate value, they won't want to add you to their social circle. Also, many of them are locusts who just use people until someone better comes along, so you constantly have to police your inputs.

I always tell people that there are no friendships, merely associations, and that you don't have friends, you have associates.

A friend is someone who you can confide to, someone who will have your back when the chips are down, and that's not most people.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sports are largely free. E.g. pickup soccer.

[–]mugatucrazypills0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think the OP question assumes you have some time and resources.

[–]thrwwy42513 points14 points  (19 children) | Copy

Mine are carpentry, climbing, board games, improv, and D&D. If you live in a town with any decent population, there are clubs you can join, classes you can take, hobbies you can invest in. Even if you don't meet anyone cool, you're learning skills and bettering yourself in the process.

[–]Axoc17 points18 points  (18 children) | Copy

D&D

I wanted to play this since I was a little kid and my dad used to tell me stories about playing it when he was 15-20ish. Before TRP I was too afraid of what others would think. Now, I play it with some of my best friends and we have a blast. I DM and it has helped me SO much as a writer, public speaker, etc. If any of you guys have ever even come close to wanting to play, really check it out, even if you're playing with strangers.

The stereotype exists for a reason, and if you find a group that is like that, you can always just keep searching for a new one. If you're in the Nashville TN area, I'll even let you swing by to one of ours.

[–]thrwwy42522 points23 points  (3 children) | Copy

Honestly, nerd culture has been co-opted by mainstream culture so much by now that it isn't hard to find cool dudes that would love to play. The guys I play with are all financially stable men in their late 20's/early 30's, and we spend one evening a week hanging out, laughing our asses off as we cast spells and kill monsters. The fact that it's D&D means none of the guys' wives even want to be in the house, let alone get involved, maintaining it as a sacred dude space in these guys' otherwise mostly hen-pecked, female-dominated lives.

[–]felipebarroz5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. In my play group, we have a State Judge, an IRS agent and a girl who's studying to become a federal forensic expert.

None of us is the stereotypical DnD nerd, starting with the fact that we all play in couples (currently there are 4 couples playing). It's a fun and different activity to do with your girl, just let her chose a character that she likes. My gf is a Biologist so, of course, she chosed to be a druid.

[–]Philhelm2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I got to play D&D in Iraq, 2003-2004. Someone had a miniature chess set, so we used the white pieces for the heroes and the black pieces for the monsters. All of the other games, such as cards, Risk, etc., got burnt out; it was like Groundhog Day.

[–]metalfan20[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I felt the same way about magic the gathering. I see it as poker night with a little more brain power required.

We live in a strange time where the Jocks and Nerds can be one in the same. I saw the cultural shift while I was in high school. As Freshman you could be made fun of being into Star Trek while as a Seinor everyone was stoked to see the new movie.

[–]1StoicCrane2 points3 points  (11 children) | Copy

The recent Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions and IcewindDale got me hooked to D&D a few years back. A very well crafted series with plot nuances that can place Hollywood movies to shame let alone games.

Building friendships/associations are really geared around common interests and sharing personal experiences through said interests. As nerdy as D&D may be it effectively does both.

[–]Philhelm1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

Yes! I still hold Baldur's Gate I & II to be the finest games ever made, and not just in the context of the time they were made. Subsequent games have tried to capture the magic, but have never quite succeeded, even if they were superior in certain technical aspects.

[–]1StoicCrane1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Have you heard Baldu's Gate is getting a new expansion with over 40 additional maps and 100 items! It's called The Siege Of Dragonspear currently underway!

[–]Philhelm0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

No, I haven't, but that's good news. I assume it's for BG2?

[–]1StoicCrane1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

No, it's actually an expansion for BG:EE. Consists of 40 New maps, over 100 new items, new NPCs, and the new class Shaman. It's basically BG 1.5 the shows how the characters managed to get abducted by Irenicus and the events leading upto the capture.

[–]Philhelm0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Wow, I had no idea. I already have both Extended Editions, but I must have this. Uh...I need to go into monk (more like cleric) mode for a few months guys, to uh...lift hardcore.

[–]1StoicCrane0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Just avoid going berserk while dualing...I mean doing monk (Cleric) mode. Might hurt some peeps in the process.

[–]R_Hakurei0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Not trp related but have you tried pillars of eternity?

I played it and nearly cried during the first fight because it felt so similar to Baldur's Gate that I was hit very hard by the nostalgia.

[–]Philhelm0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

No, I never tried it. When did it come out?

[–]R_Hakurei1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In March 2015. It's currently at -50% on steam.

[–]sharp71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I started D&D when a friend from BJJ got me into it. Its really very interesting. Trying to act different characters is very interesting and forces you to think in new ways, as well as highlights some of the issues you may have. For example, sometimes I like to play "loser" characters as its hilarious and somehow pretending to be one really makes me not want to be one in real life. I think when you fantasize of being better, whether through play or just watching a show, you feel like you did something awesome already and become complacent. If you watch/pretend to be a loser, you start to hate the fuck out of it and try to avoid being like that in real life.

[–]Elodrian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Tried to play pen-n-paper DND when I was ~14 with some friends. We got as far as trying to work out THAC0 tables before packing it all up again.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]AldoTheeApache1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Took up fencing a year ago, best decision ever. Met some new friends there (men and women) that also tend to be into other outgoing activities besides sitting around "watching the game" like my current circle is about. It's also a helluva workout and keeps your toes mentally as well.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]AldoTheeApache0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't be.

I'm 45. I box, I fence, I run. If Liam Neeson can do that kinda shit so can I (and so can you!).

RE: Fencing. There's various ways to approach the sport. Kids take it for fun or to potentially go pro. College students take it and compete. Older gents (aka me) take it for fun and sometimes competition. Don't get too self conscious about it, have fun.

[–]Purecorrupt19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

Friends out of convenience sort of ends after college. I would agree that all or most of my friends are activity friends.

Work friends.

Basketball friends.

Snowboarding friends.

Improv friends.

Sports Watching friends.

When those activities end those friendships basically end. Stopped gaming and I only talk to 1 guy who I got to go snowboarding with me and another that moved in my area. This is after a decade of gaming way too much. If I quit any other activity those people involved are likely to quickly disappear.

Outside of that - there are maybe 4 or 5 people that I may shoot the shit and go somewhere with (food, bars, festivals, vacation, etc.) on a slightly more regular basis. These might be the ones I actually call on the phone - but still mostly to hang out. If any of them moved or I moved the friendship would be dumped to facebook updates or "I'm in your town" texts.

The days of just hanging out at a buddies place doing nothing ended for me a long time ago. I'm 27 for reference.

[–]1htbf5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

The days of just hanging out at a buddies place doing nothing ended for me a long time ago.

It just evolved into something else. There is nothing so special about doing nothing and just talking. You might as well talk while you do something, like drinking a beer at a bar, having lunch outside or just walking together in the city.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (5 children) | Copy

Missed one: music.

I joined a new band about 8 months ago and they are already among my better friends.

[–]1Sergnb18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've made most of my guy friends through music. Having a vast music knowledge, be it through a lot of digging in whatever scene you are into, or by actually being a muscian, is the ultimate "this seems like a cool person" presentation card. Provided you don't fuck it up later on, it's relatively easy to make new friends through music alone.

[–]fingerthemoon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Musical relationships can be a lot like romantic relationships except you play music instead of fuck. But all the drama attachment and rejection is still there. It's easy to start a relationship but hard to end one smoothly.

[–] points points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Oh I'm just raving about shit. I don't quite have the speaking skills that you have.

[–]anangryterrorist4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

A few things you missed:

  • drinking heavily
  • drinking mildly
  • dirt bikes
  • beer
  • musical instruments
  • whiskey

Most of the guys I know are pretty simple. If you can have a drink and make jokes, you're in.

[–]tallwheel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yeah, it's funny that you mention drinking and beer. A lot of my friendships are based almost entirely around drinking craft beer and going to beer bars. I know it's not the best dietary habit, but the whole scene can be a lot of fun and very involving if you become serious. I and a lot of my friends also dabble in homebrewing.

[–]anangryterrorist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Eveb if most people don't like making it, they cab appreciate the product, which is enpugh of a talking point to bond over.

[–]saml011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This right here. The thing I miss most about having a bike and a "race"(not really, it was a turbo'd miata) was the community. When i got rid of those, that cut me off almost immediately.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 163 points164 points  (44 children) | Copy

My best friend turned into an Islamic fundamentalist.

I wish I was joking about that.

[–]Garconanokin111 points112 points  (1 child) | Copy

See, he got built in friends that way. Although, I hear it's a tough cell.

[–][deleted] 69 points70 points  (0 children) | Copy

You made me giggle 72 times

[–]Frigzy48 points49 points  (30 children) | Copy

Islam is attractive because it's the lazy man or woman's ticket to a close knit ingroup where all the good intentions get projected towards.

It's lazy because a true spiritually honorable community or religion would recommend its followers to project those intentions globally, meaning one would have to work on himself or herself to overcome his current state and grow in a spiritual way.

Islam allows you not to do so, in fact it expects you not to, since that negative energy can be put to good use, aka combat 'enemies of the faith'.

True spirituality has no enemies. Islam is the most childish religion out there. It's a disgrace, but it works because the majority of people on this planet never fully mature.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is precisely what happened.

We all moved out, he stayed behind in the same town. He had a hard time making friends after school. He started going to the local mosque to find some people he could hang out with. One thing leads to another and he's now posting religious material on Facebook

[–]mugatucrazypills6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

hey that happened to my 1st wife

[–]TheRedThrowAwayPill0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Except for being mainly wrong, you're kinda right about somethings.

The whole get your house in order before dealing with everyone else is just how Judiasm & Islam work. Can't form a strong community if you spend most of your energy outside of it.

[–][deleted]  (18 children) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]Frigzy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Considering the amount of stuff Islam requires you to do (prayers, good deeds, good behavior, fasting, abstinence...), I think the "work on him/herself" part is pretty well covered. This alone hurts the credibility of your entire comment.

You can do all these things without actually working on yourself. And that is exactly why it's so shit. It allows people to think they're making some sort of spiritual progress because some retarded book told them they would be rewarded when it doesn't fucking matter anymore in a way that's simply phisically impossible.

Fuck dude, killing innocent people including woman and children is actually a sound way of spiritual growth in Islam. It doesn't get any more clear than that does it?

I get pretty fed up with the amount of negativity towards Islam around here. I read TRP posts daily and I see them too often. I understand where it comes from, and I happily accept disagreement, but for a sub that is all about self-improvement I see a distressing lack of thinking...

When I talk about spiritual and emotional growth I'm talking about confronting your own psychological barriers that prevent you from being in touch with your inner capacity for love and compassion. Anyone who's somewhat experienced in spiritual and emotional growth knows that this type of love and compassion does not discriminate in any way shape or form. It can be described as a profound love for life, for the universe. It's a transcendence of the dualistic thinking that devides the universe into good and bad. And that is why Islam (but not only Islam) is so shit in terms of true spirituality. It enforces duality and attributes the good to only what Islam includes. At the same time it cherishes the bad as everything that it does not. It's a way of spiritual hijacking and by doing so, it prevents its followers from breaking through dualistic thinking.

That is why Islam prevents people from true spiritual growth, and in essence, self improvement.

It takes quite the opposite of a 'lack of thinking' to realize that most religions actually nurture this type of dualistic approach and how it affects spiritual and emotional growth. Unfortunately, one of the religions has to be the worst. And there's no point pussying out of the fact that it most certainly is Islam.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (15 children) | Copy

As for the rest, there is definitely a part of truth. Islam does enable fanaticism. Now, find me a mainstream religion (even ideology) that doesn't...

Quakers.

(prayers, good deeds, good behavior, fasting, abstinence...)

Wow, these things are so associated with muslims. Especially abstinence. I've never heard of a muslim ever commiting any type of sexual crime, especially in the western nations that host them.

[–]sharp73 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Wow, these things are so associated with muslims. Especially abstinence. I've never heard of a muslim ever commiting any type of sexual crime, especially in the western nations that host them.

I'm guessing you've never met many muslims and got to know them or the religion.

Judaism and Islam are hardcore about all the things the other guy mentioned like abstinence, piousness, fasting, prayer, charity. You lie, fuck, etc in these religions and they'll chop your head off so to speak. Christianity is actually the one that is the most lenient and is centered around the idea of forgiveness for your sins.

You must be incredibly sheltered and ignorant and must be getting your info from Fox news to even hint that islam is pro-anything that isn't super white-knight bullshit.

Islam is fucked up, I know from my own experience, but its not fucked up in the way you think it is. Its fucked up because you can't eat pork, drink, smoke, do any drugs, or have premarital sex, hell pretty much anything fun. The culture is also very parent-centric where kids are expected to be extremely obedient. The entire religion is centered around submissiveness and obedience. Of course, when you can get a guy to not fuck, masterbate, eat, drink etc, its not hard to strap a bomb to them either. Islam is an extremely effective religion at being disciplined. Turning the discipline into suicide attacks is just what happens when you give a powerful brainwashing weapon (Islam) to crazy violent guys. Most of the time though its used to make sure there kids get the best grades and the best jobs. That's why you see so many brown people getting jobs as doctors, engineers, etc. Islam requires more discipline than school does, which makes it easier for the brown kids to do well in school since school is mostly just doing what you're told. This also applies to Judaism which is also very disciplined and also produces kids with amazing grades that become doctors, engineers etc.

Christianity is the best at getting people's money and making them feel happier "ALL YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN BECAUSE JESUS DIED FOR YOU! Please donate now..." (this is hyperbole of course for you hardcore christians out there). But when a religion is all about someone saving you from your mistakes, and the whole if you tell your sin its sometimes absolved thing its quite forgiving. It works, people go to churches and feel happier about themselves, they dance and have fun. Then when the priest tells them to give some money or do some task (crusades), they do it. Christianity takes the "nice boss" approach, its decent, but I don't think its as effective as Islam/Judaism.

Judaism and Islam are the best at discipline. Shit like not eating or drinking water while the sun is up for 30 days straight, not fucking anyone your not married to, never using any drugs of any kind, eating kosher/halal. Other than the no pre-marital sex part christianity is awful at getting its people to do any of the other things mentioned. The reason the west is so scared of Islam is cause of two things, one its extremely effective at getting submission and discipline, which is scary as fuck when the terrorists have that power over there solders. And two, these are people who look down on you for things that are fun like eating bacon, sex, drugs. Of course religions aren't THAT powerful, even in muslim countries people still break the rules and drink etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

not fucking anyone you're not married to

Ultra fast marriages in cologne, I'd imagine.

brown people

You mean Hindus, right? lol, fucking muslims can't engineer worth a shit fucking lazy bastards. I say this as someone who briefly worked IT at Saudi, fucking human trash.

[–]sharp71 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lolwhat. Have you seen muslims in America? One of my friends every single cousin he has is either a Doctor, Lawyer, Pharmacist, MBA, or something else high class.

Every single muslim kid in America is told the same thing as a kid. Be a doctor. That's it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

One of my friends every single cousin he has is either a Doctor, Lawyer, Pharmacist, MBA, or something else high class.

Wasn't Bin Laden a developer? lol

The San Bernardino guys had high-end jobs too

Son, it's the decade of Trump and the birth of the American Crusade. At least you'll have the islamic state to emigrate to

[–]sharp71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Trump thinks the way to beat the east is to create walls. That's so foolish. The only reason America is as good as it is is because it imports so much talent.

Now the worry is that the eastern countries where our tech talent is coming from is good enough that people aren't bothering to come here anymore.

The way to compete isn't to make walls, its to make America's education and industry top notch so people stay here. Why would anyone want to put there company in the US if the east has better internet, cheaper manual labor, and better education systems?

Isolationism is what countries do when they are too scared to compete globally.

[–]gpyh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

If you believe Saudis are fucking human trash, you'll find many Muslims agreeing with you. They have a worldwide reputation of idiots and assholes.

[–]Frigzy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Abstinence is holy for muslims. I mean sure, having a prophet marrying a 9 year old still isn't exactly laudable, but still. Towards non-muslims however, it's the opposite. They get free reign because hey, those creatures are worth less than you right?

This is exactly the mentality that enables human beings to behave the way they did in Cologne. An ugly and misplaced sense of superiority and entitlement.

[–]gpyh0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Ever heard if a an American rapist? Should I conclude that rape is OK by USA's laws?

There is a striking difference between what a religion preaches and how the believers behave. I think you know this and you realise how much of a strawman argument you just made.

Now just please pick up a damn book, because the sentence you're refuting is actually common knowledge, even among the most critical people.

EDIT: For the lazy: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islam#Five_pillars Was it so hard?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

"H-hey guys, sure, most muslims are rapists, but that's because real Islam has never been created!"

Ugh. Fuck off mohammed or I'll sic Trump on you.

[–]gpyh1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

These are not my words. If I were to judge anything by its worst participants, I'd conclude that everything is shitty, starting with supporting Trump.

[–]WHY1111 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Here's why you are wrong. If Islam were like how you claim it is only a small percentage of Muslims would be shitty people. However EVERY Arab country (muslim majority) is an absolute shithole and without oil they would be poorer than Africa. There are a few non-arab islamic nations which aren't as bad but they are still worse than neighboring nations. Pakistan is worse than India, Iran and Turkey are worse than Russia. And the muslim countries with higher Christian minorities (Lebanon and Egypt) do better.

There is something fundamentally wrong with Islam.

[–]gpyh1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Of course, the fact that they're shitholes (which is debatable) has nothing to do with foreign policies and past colonisation... Quit watching Fox News, it's embarrassing.

[–]WHY1111 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

China, India, South Africa, and all of South America were colonized and are doing better than the Middle East. Even with a huge supply of oil the Middle East is poor. Islamic nations have contributed a negligible amount to the world in the last 200 years. For example there are 3 muslim science nobel prize winners in history and 23% of the world is muslim.

which is debatable

So what is the reason millions of Arabs (most of whom are not from Syria) are migrating to Europe?

[–]2ndLion-5 points-4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Oh great. I've been warching while even trp has been filled with islamophobs and Trump lovers. You guys are probably from USA or another western country. Islam encourages working and learning, most of the muslim problems come from stigmatizing, and the fact that it's culture isn't compatible with the capitalistic nature our world is in. You know what we say here at trp about feminisme? The anti islam rally is the same. It's about money(war) and controle(fear)

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

lol

I'm actually concerned about muslims reading TRP, as I wonder if they have the nuance to read this sub and not rape some poor woman who didn't respond to their advances.

[–]2ndLion-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Your stupidity is impressive

[–]Frigzy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes. I live very close to a muslim ghetto in a city with about the most ethnic diversity in the world. It's quite clear how they top the charts in terms of combining misplaced superiority, playing the victim and entitlement. Add some egocentrism and generally childish mentality to the mix and you get to experience their added 'value' on a regular basis.

Because Islam teaches muslims that they are inherently better beings than others, this is what you get, while they push for more and more benefits, since hey, they're worth it right? They're better than everyone else.

Everywhere where Islams borders non-Islamic cultures, shit is messed up. And Islam is the common denominator.

The only reason why you tend to think Islam is fine is because it managed to take over on a scale where the superiority to non-Islamic influences has practically became invisible. That's why Islam is so 'wonderful' to those inside of it. To the rest of the universe, it's the ugliest motherfucker in the house.

[–]mugatucrazypills4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

most of the muslim problems come from stigmatizing, and the fact that it's culture isn't compatible with the capitalistic nature our world is in.

this seems trollish

Islam encourages child sexual assault and genocide and torture, just like the founder said. It's what great uncle moe said. Kill thy neighbour.

Many of the cult members sort of operate in the civilized world by deemphasizing the actual teachings of the cult(just as christians have to ignore half the silly bible to be reasonably compatable with modern society), doesn't mean the cult ITSELF makes any sense.

[–]debashis2210 points11 points  (7 children) | Copy

One of my best friends growing up ... his father's name was Salman Hussein. In 1991 he was harassed so much locally that they up and left Charlotte, NC for Toronto. Sucks about your friend though.

[–]Sementeries7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy

Well, our president of the United States is named Barack Hussein Obama . How weird is that?

[–]volkommm1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Hussein is his middle name, though.

[–]redpill_kurious5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

And the only people who point out his never-relevant middle name are crazy. Not a big fan of Obama either.

Then again, I'm opposed to shortcutting rational thought with emotionally-laden labels. IMO this doesn't fit in with TRP 100.0% of the time.

[–]volkommm4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, his name is completely irrelevant. It's not like he fucking chose it himself. He actively stated his name as 'Barrack Obama' because he knows how people would react.

[–]Badboythrowawayacct0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Is his first name any better!???? Hahahaha

[–]TheRedThrowAwayPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

But wasn't president while fighting Saddam

[–]malariasucks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

One of my best friends growing up turned to a life of crime. He's trying to get it together but it was half a lifetime ago and there's nothing we have in common anymore, much less would I even trust him around my family

[–]bartallen47900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

My best friend married a fat chick, I think you still came out on top.

[–]bvolkl123 points124 points  (185 children) | Copy

I know it seems like an outdated organization to some people but when I got out of college I joined the Freemasons. I did it specifically to meet other men whom I might become closer friends with as many of my superficial college relationships were beginning to fade away. I feel blessed to have made that decision. So many great guys who I know I can just call to grab a beer and talk about whatever is happening. In fact the man who introduced me to TRP is one of my brothers. I currently live in Africa working for an international development organization and I get postcards and emails from brothers just to say hi or check up and see how I'm doing. Once you are part of an organization like this you can meet strangers all over the world and already have something in common with them.

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision[S] 28 points29 points  (138 children) | Copy

Don't I have to know a mason to be asked to join the masons?

[–]bvolkl37 points38 points  (135 children) | Copy

Yes and no. By "law" (our own) we can't ask you to join the masons, you must be the one to seek membership. That said, we hold recruitment events open to the public in hopes that new brothers will join. You can be a random guy off the street and walk into any lodge and they will welcome you with open arms assuming you don't have a heinous criminal past.

[–]Squeezymypenisy13 points14 points  (104 children) | Copy

Does it help to have past family members that were members? My great grandfather and possibly late grandfather were members and I have thought about seeking membership for awhile.

[–]recon_johnny23 points24 points  (97 children) | Copy

Help is not really the issue. By and large, we're not a restrictive body--there are some criteria to be a Mason; one is to be a man, another is to believe in God (Higher Power sort of thing, not a religion). If you can answer honestly that question, then there's nothing that would prevent you (from what I see here).

If you have family members that were Masons, then perhaps what the organization is holds a little more for you...but we are willing to accept anyone who desire to 'seek more light'--basically becoming a better man.

[–]Strike48 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

So for example, believing in the power of the universe and the grand being that is universal energy count as believing in a god? I don't really believe in Christ and all that, but I do have a sense of perspective and realize that we're all just tiny beings compared to the power of the universe. The universe to me is a grand being. I can draw energy and spread it by keeping a high vibe to myself. I know its a bit odd, but it always helps to believe in something greater.

[–]CyLoke5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're a Pantheist, you'd be fine in the Masons.

[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

It's not about Christianity. There are things that are, like the York Rite, but for the Blue Lodges, it's about believing in something more than you.

We call it the Supreme Architect of the Universe, as most of what we follow to has a science behind it - Geometry, Logic, Mathematics. As the operative Masons used this in building physical structures, we as speculative Masons use the same to build ourselves.

At the end of the day, it will be if you can be comfortable in your belief, and if this can be reconciled in things like prayer (we do pray, but not to a deity). I would suggest having a good discussion with a local Masonic lodge.

Note: If you do go through with the process, you will need to give an oath. That oath is done usually on a Bible, but I've seen the Torah and Koran. The lodge may suggest alternatives for you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Thank you for the information.

I'll definitely look into it once I get my income and 'identity' into a better place.

I'm assuming Quakers can affirm instead of swear.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Haven't had any Quakers, so I can't confirm.

One thing about the brotherhood. We believe in Truth, Relief, and Brotherly Love. If you need help, in finances or other, there's no shame in asking for help. They will gladly give it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks, but it's more a discipline thing than a financial thing.

I've got all the resources I need to launch the product I want to launch, all that's lacking is continued, focused effort.

I'd like to succeed with this before I enter a new group, as it'll give me more of an identity.

[–]lawrencewidman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Have you read Born to Heal?

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper22 points23 points  (35 children) | Copy

another is to believe in God (Higher Power sort of thing, not a religion). If you can answer honestly that question,

Many young men can't. It's a lie that's super-easy to tell, and has few or no negative consequences, but not every man is willing to lie to those who are supposed to become his brothers.

[–]recon_johnny6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

As you proceed further, and come to know/rely on those men, that small lie will really become a bigger problem.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

Exactly.

Have you read my article on the four levels of social cooperation?

Here at TRP, we teach men to lie, cheat, and manipulate, but lying, cheating and manipulation are a strategy. Whether it's a good strategy to use depends on who you are using it on.

We try to break men of the habit of behaving morally towards a society that acknowledges no reciprocal obligation to them, but to have brothers, a man must be a brother. How you behave towards some random ho is not the same as how you treat your tried and tested bro.

Someone who lies and cheats with everyone will fail because he has no friends. The amorality we teach here is about reserving honourable behaviour for those who repay goodness with goodness, and honesty with honesty.

So, yes, I agree that telling this small lie can be a big problem.

[–]MasterUm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You no doubt are an authority, but how exactly does TRP teach to "lie and cheat"? Manipulation I have no issue with, I'm manipulating a bag of clay to make it into a pot, I'm manipulating a woman to suck my dick, no one gets hurt. But lying and cheating? Please explain.

[–]SouthPorn13 points14 points  (31 children) | Copy

This is why I can't be a Mason and it really bothers me.

I know I'd love the fraternity, and I'd make great connections. But at the core I'd be lying to my so called brothers, even if it were a little lie.
If there were a "Don't ask, Don't tell." sort of option I'd be fine. Sadly that's not the case, and there is no other equal sort of fraternity that doesn't have such a rule.

[–]Senior Contributordr_warlock17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you lie about or omit the fact you don't believe in a core component of the philosophy, you will feel a major disconnect or the lack of belief will manifest itself in a notable part of your actions. Not worth it to join.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper11 points12 points  (11 children) | Copy

These organizations were formed when everyone either believed in the invisible wizard, or had to lie about it in every aspect of their lives.

Now, they stand out for this, because they are one of the few organizations that hasn't changed the rules. This is probably not so much them being Jesus freaks, as simply being an organization of men, for men, and thus naturally resistant to outside pressure to change the rule.

It's their ballgame, so they can do that. We wouldn't let anyone come along and tell us to change Rule Zero.

But in applying a vague litmus test like that, instead of explicitly abolishing the rule, they are selecting for people willing to lie to them (especially among younger men, who are the least religious segment of the population).

[–]SouthPorn6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

I don't detract them all this rule, I don't even think their religious nuts. I just really don't want to have to lie.

The truth is though that having weaker morals will get you farther in life.

[–]NikoMyshkin6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

Most atheists I know have extremely strong morals. Religion is absolutely no indicator of decency.

[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

they are selecting for people willing to lie to them (especially among younger men, who are the least religious segment of the population).

Not sure I agree. About 70% of US population believes in God--and I've heard this higher. Urban area are primarily non-religious, but the rest of the country holds some belief.

What I want to emphasize is that this is not about Christianity. My lodge has Jews and Muslims. If one can believe all on this world (and every other) is completely random and just luck, then that's fine. If, however, you think that maybe there's some intelligent design behind things--again, not Christianity--then that's all we ask. Do you think that maybe...just maybe...it's not so cut and dry/black and white? There's much literature on the subject, and is a good mind expansion, regardless.

[–]TRP VanguardWhisper10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy

70% of US population believes in {some version of a deity}

That sounds about right.

However, this is significantly lower among younger people. That means that religion is dying out. Organizations that only accept theists are going to have smaller and smaller percentages of younger people, which limits their future in a rather severe way.

If, however, you think that maybe there's some intelligent design behind things--again, not Christianity--then that's all we ask.

You don't have to argue that your requirement is reasonable and small. It's your club. You can do whatever the fuck you like. You require neither my permission nor my approval.

However, it's specifically the idea of an intelligent designer that younger people tend not to believe in.

As our process of gathering data with science starts to explain more and more things, not once has that explanation ever been "someone designed this". So the responsibilities attributed to a designer have gradually retreated into the areas we do not yet understand.

Once God was thought responsible for mankind. Then this was shown not to be the case, and it was that surmised that he was responsible for life. Then, this, too, was shown to be untrue, and he is held responsible for the universe.

But young people are starting to notice a trend. Everywhere we look for God, we find him absent. While the non-existence of any thing can never be proven, people are starting to think it's reasonable to assume that this trend will continue, and that every new corner we shine a light into will reveal complexity as an emergent phenomenon, and the absence of God.

What the Masons wish to do about this is up to them. My understanding is that Masonry is not a church, and that it still certainly has functions to serve in a godless universe, but that's not for me to say. It's not my place to tell Masons what to do with their thing. They built it, I didn't. They own it, I don't.

[–]MortalSisyphus 9 points9 points [recovered] | Copy

The term God has taken on such a loaded connotation due to organized religion. People get turned off to the very idea because of it's associations. I think it's the wrong attitude to take.

I have no idea where this all came from, no idea how things organized themselves in such a way that life and consciousness arose, etc. The idea that it all just happened and worked out this way for no particular reason, or that there are practically infinite "multiverses" and we happen to live in a good one, both strike me as too absurd to believe. Doesn't mean I believe in a white-bearded man in the clouds telling people not to masturbate, but it means I suspect there is something going on that we simply aren't aware of because it is outside the scope of our system.

To say with absolute certainty that you know there is no God is even more absurd, and honestly an unscientific position to take. Here's a Huxley quote I quite like:

"Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."

If you are confident enough in atheistic beliefs to refuse to answer such a simple question, I think you need a bit more humility. But that's just one man's opinion.

[–]mhornberger7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

If you are confident enough in atheistic beliefs to refuse to answer such a simple question, I think you need a bit more humility.

Most atheists aren't claiming to know. We just see no reason to believe in God.

Affirming belief, as in, "Yes, I believe God exists" doesn't seem to be the same thing as "I don't know." If I can't affirm belief in God, and don't want to pander or lie to someone, how does that indicate a lack of humility?

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

[removed]

[–]SouthPorn0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You miss the point entirely. I do not believe there is no God. I do not believe there is a God. I admit there could be a diety of some kind but believing in it simply on faith alone is frankly rediculous. I need evidence. So far there isn't any.

This still voids me from membership. Because the question specifically asks if you believe, not that you admit the possibility is there.

[–]1StoicCrane0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

The white bearded guy in the clouds concept seems so Juvinile. Religion has become as system nowadays of exploition. Hierarchal figures on religious communities perpetuate the despair of their members in the "name of God" for an easy profit.

Exploitation and subjagation of the "sheep"/"flock" to the pastor-ial overseer. These labels exist for a reason.

It is somewhat pretentious to believe that there isn't something out there. Whether the vast collective expanse of Cosmic consciousness or an Infinite Reality that may actually be what humans percieve as God, who knows? But some corporeal entity siting on a cloud thrown deliberating judgement seems a bit of a stretch.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Masons don't put faith into the white bearded man in the sky. They simply say there's something higher that we are.

Many confuse organized religion with belief.

[–]NikoMyshkin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Russell's teapot. It isn't for me as an atheist to prove my position but rather it is for an agnostic/theist to prove that their (logically absurd) position is even possibly true. Essentially atheism is the position that the concept of god lacks all credibility.

[–]gpyh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just pick a book about God. Any. A religious scripture, a philosophical essay, a pamphlet, a story, whatever. And then keep doing it.

"Believing" is not something you're born with and if you just think about it in the solitude of your own mind it will be much harder to develop intricate thoughts and grounded opinions. So, read about God (or the absence of it) and stay open-minded.

It will either comfort you in your belief, which will make you more grounded, or shake them, which will open new paths for you to take. In the meantime, you'll increase your knowledge on the topic, which can only help better yourself.

[–]felipebarroz0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

There are other organizations to join, like the Rotary Club or the Lions International

[–]SouthPorn0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Neither of which are men only. I am a member of several unisex groups. But aside from The Masons, there is no group of men with such open requirements for membership.

[–]felipebarroz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That is true, unfortunately.

It's a shame that such a virtuous group like The Masons have its philosophy based on God, as an atheist myself.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We had a First Degree the other night. I paid attention to the work and in many instances there's a nod to God, with regular prayers, etc.

If you don't believe in God, not that you don't know....but if you don't believe that there is a Higher Power, then you shouldn't try to be a Mason.

[–][deleted]  (10 children) | Copy

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[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (8 children) | Copy

I'm in the same boat at 25. My perspective on it has improved recently when I recognized that many Christian men are red pill men naturally. While I don't agree with them on the spiritual shit, I always find common ground with them in their hobbies. They make for some of the safest friends. Years ago I made the mistake of always being in the company of liberal, hipster minded people my own age because they tended to agree with me about religion but for different reasons. Mainly being that they didn't like being held to moral standards(red flag). Biggest mistake of my life. So now I'm just an atheist of sorts that prefers Christian friends. Seems to work well.

[–]eccentricrealist20 points21 points  (5 children) | Copy

I'd be glad to have better communities with atheists but for some reason a lot are pretty autismo

[–]cosine8842 points43 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm atheist, and at times have really hated religion.

But I have to admit, religious communities are way better at raising men than atheist communities.

[–]Stormhammer14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

You know, you're not wrong. They definitely hold to more traditional values where men are head of the household, women are to submit to their men, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In my experience, every group gets a bad rep from the vocal extremists within them. From my perspective, I rarely encounter a Christian that actually understands the theory of evolution or basic philosophical concepts.

[–]Squeezymypenisy2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

I want to join for that last bit. The Masons always struck me as upstanding men and I loved that about the organization.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is the first time I hear people discussing about the masons in a positive light. Usually it's just the "baby-eating filthy zionist elitists" kind of mud-throwing.

[–]Squeezymypenisy0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Lol yea I have heard that a lot. I'm sure someone will come along and say it.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

PM me. Looking for what state/city you're in, and I can give some details. I have friends in about 10 different states, several locations; so you never know, maybe close to you.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

So, you can't just join the Knights Templar. You have to be a Master Mason, then apply for the York Rite, which has the three bodies. Knights Templar specifically, and York Rite in general, is a Christian organization, and you need to believe in Christ if you proceed with those degrees.

Good for you for not doing something against your beliefs.

From the Grand Lodge of California:

Is Masonry a religion?

Masonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. The fraternity requires its members to have a belief in a Supreme Being, but the fraternity itself is not affiliated with any religion, and men of all faiths are represented in the fraternity. Religion is not discussed at lodge meetings.

This is their definition. I would first contact a local chapter for assistance, while also emailing the Grand Lodge. They should be able to reach out directly.

If you have any trouble, PM me. I know a few folks that might be able to assist, or get someone in contact with you.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If you're still in CA, let me know. I have friends from San Diego to LA and then Inland.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (15 children) | Copy

Seems lame they tie God into it. Even if they don't preach or anything... simply being an atheist excludes me?

[–]recon_johnny5 points6 points  (12 children) | Copy

Yes.

Freemasonry wouldn't be viable for you, if this is the case.

[–]Ubermensch334 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy

Freemasonry

How is agnosticism, i.e. "I don't know", viewed?

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

My gut says that you must side on the "Yes, maybe" v. "I don't know".

Note I say maybe, not probably. Let me get with some guys tonight and discuss.

[–]dogextraordinaire1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy

The provincial grand master of my local lodge said agnosticism was fine. That said, where I live they're dying for young blood so probably wouldn't mind overlooking that detail, as long as you erred on the yes side of maybe.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So, we had a degree the other night. I talked to an Inspector (responsible for ensuring work is consistent in the district). He say you need to believe in a Higher Power (again, not necessarily God). And then in the degree, the work showed me the answer. It's not enough to say "I don't know". You need to answer in the affirmative.

If you can reconcile that thought, then Masons would welcome you with open arms.

[–]themanbat0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Don't try your luck with the Muslim Brotherhood either. I've heard they also are adverse to atheists.

[–]MagJack0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

What if the God of the bible makes you angry and you doubt that any of it is true, but you accept that there may be some kind of higher power that at the very least "kick-started" everything?

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Again, we're not advocating ANY religion; that of the Bible or Koran or Torah.

If you have a problem with "A" God, but as you've stated, you think there may be something else you can put a belief in. If you want to call it Grand Architect of the Universe, is that better for you? That's what is literally said in a lodge. We also say God, and we also pray. To me, praying defers that belief to that entity. You can resolve it how you want, if you can--and if you can't, then there's your answer.

[–]MagJack0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

ohhh, like group prayer though? I'd have a tough time with that. I was raised in a cult and have triggers. Thanks for explaining it that way though.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We bow our heads in prayer, to start and close lodge.

Opening asks to keep us disciplined and educated, to let us improve/self-mastery and to keep the lodge in harmony.

Closing is to invoke a blessing, and to keep those in attendance safe until the next time.

So yes, group prayer.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can't I join as an atheist? I do believe that I am the embodiment of god.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nope. You need to believe in something external.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil-1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy

Seek more light? Sounds pretty cool. There is this dude whose name means bringer of light: Lucifer. Maybe he can help you out.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Lucifer is widely hailed as a beacon in Freemaso....

Nah. Funny though. It helps as we plan the New World Order.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Our Blue Pill feminist friends are hard at work trying to destroy the nuclear family structure which is a key component of the New World Order. At least everyone is on the same team.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

While Masons aren't necessarily Red Pill (although some definitely are), they do have defined gender roles. One of the things I like about it.

[–]lawrencewidman0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Right...so to live in darkness IE: without the truth is better? There's a guy named Nietzsche... This is an easy game to play ;)

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You totally convinced me. So should I hang a noose around my neck now? I'm ready to do the initiation ritual where I put up my own body as collateral.

[–]lawrencewidman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That's not how we do things here. You only have to put this 6 shooter gun to your head where we put in one round...Don't worry though only 1 in 6 actually die.

[–]bvolkl6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy

I suppose. The only thing that would really prevent you from getting in is be a giant douchebag during the interviews or have a terrible criminal past. It's always great to see brothers with family connections in lodge. For example my last roommate became a brother a little bit after me and was raised to the rank of Master by his father. The dad made a very moving speech.

[–]Squeezymypenisy0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

How do you look up local lodges to join? Do they have a website or contact info?

[–]bvolkl1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

A simple google search of your city and the term Freemason should give you the contact info for the nearest lodge. If you aren't in America or the UK the lodges tend to be in major cities only.

[–]Squeezymypenisy0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I figured it would thanks. Didn't know if there was some type of advanced system or something.

[–]bvolkl2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those numbers probably exist but not to the public. For instance, the secretary of my lodge loves numbers so he puts together interesting demographic info into a report he gives once a year. But he does it for fun, not because it's part of his duties.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'd also suggest the Grand Lodge for your State. They have a comprehensive list as well.

[–]10xdada2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

The organization is really open to new guys joining. I recommend emailing your local lodge and just saying, "hey, I don't know if I know anyone in your lodge, but I really want to learn more. Is there a way to meet someone to learn more?"

The guys I've talked to say so long as you are focused on helping men become better at being men, looking for brotherhood and to help others, you should be fine. Being around other guys teaches you to listen.

[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I did exactly this...went to website and sent in an message. A couple of days later a friend of mine responded---I didn't know he was a Mason.

I enjoy being there exactly for the reasons you list.

[–]yomo862 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

What is the age median? Are there any guys under 30? I am quite thrilled with this organization.

[–]recon_johnny3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

In my lodge, we have an excellent mix of ages. There's a lot of military, and that probably has something to do with it as well.

Our median age is under 40, and we have about 200 brothers. There's a few outliers over 70, and I'm sure that brings that median age up some.

What I strongly recommend is to investigate the lodges--they'll have a Stated Meeting with a dinner usually once a month (we have meetings almost every week, but the Stated usually brings out more folks). Get to know the guys, talk to a bunch. Not just about Masonry, but about what they like to do, family life, etc.

If it doesn't have a good vibe, then move to the next one. I've travelled to about a dozen lodges, and while most were spectacular, a couple weren't so much--it is a family after all. Find what you like.

Also, the guy leading the lodge (called the Master) can really define how the lodge operates. With the support of the other men in the Officer roles, he can change the internal dynamic. My lodge, for example, used to go out to drink and eat afterward. Now we stay in and bullshit (with booze), and it really has become more of a family feeling.

In my state, there's a shit ton of local lodges within a 50 mile radius--maybe 8 or so.

PM me if you like, and I'll help find some places for you.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I'm 17, and I think I could benefit from the general wisdom of the Lodge and its members. Should I wait a couple years to join, or take advantage of it now?

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

You have to be an adult. For the US, that means 18.

At such a young age, you'd be the youngest by far. We had a 19 year old, and the older guys took him under their wings and, in addition to giving him shit, helped.

Questions like what you're asking is not something I can answer. I would suggest looking into it, and if it resonates, proceed. My views on life and the world changed pretty dramatically from 18 to 22.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Thanks for the response. I think that sort of mentorship and guidance at such a young age would keep me focused, on track, and prove invaluable in the long run. I'll look into it.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Anytime, let me know if you have further questions, or need help.

[–]bvolkl2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

The average age of all members is something like mid fifties because membership is for life so the old coots sitting in the nursing homes drive that number up a bit but for active members I would say mid thirties. My lodge might be an exception because it's in a city rather than a town but we have a lot of active members in their mid to late twenties as well as some fresh out of college.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

because membership is for life

Not really. You can buy life memberships, which are pretty expensive up front--and tied only to one lodge. Most of us do the year-to-year membership.

[–]bvolkl0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Maybe I just have a generous lodge but once you've been going for 25+ years we just waive the dues.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You do. That's pretty awesome.

[–]Radaghast381 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

How are the dues?

I've read in several places that the entry level ranks are heavily priced, and that to rise in rank/knowledge you'd better be ready to pay a bunch of money over the years.

[–]bvolkl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I pay $20 USD a year in dues. Each degree was also $20 USD so I paid in total for my first year, $60. I'm sure places like Boston, NYC, and Alexandria that have a lot of wealth in the area and a lot of history charge more but I can't imagine it's making anyone go broke.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not so much. It's pretty cheap, as far as I'm concerned. Application fee was about $250. That includes the first years dues. Yearly dues are about $150.

There is no graduated system, either. If you want to learn more, you simply attend. We don't hold secrets from anyone. Lodges will have Masonic Learning, so you can understand what's behind it. A lot of that also comes from mouth to ear learning that men who know will pass down.

Now, if you want to do concordant bodies, like Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners, yes, these have their own fees. York Rite is about $30-40 each. There's three bodies within the York Rite (Royal Arch, Council and Knights Templar), so it's about $120 a year for that.

Shriners (which most everyone knows, but usually doesn't associate with being a Mason) are very much philanthropic, and they rely on you for donations....the hospitals and care for children are all based on your help.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What about a criminal past that isn't heinous?

[–]bvolkl1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

We have a brother get accepted that had two possession charges on his record from when he was young and dumb. We didn't feel like that was too bad of a past. DUIs, murder, assault on the other hand doesn't scream good representative for the organization.

[–]QQ_L2P0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Any problems with people of different colour or is anyone welcome. I'd considered it but every website or event I see is just full of white dudes.

[–]bvolkl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

No problem whatsoever. The brother whom I joined through was Indian. Back during the civil war era there were lodges that were entirely black called Prince Hall lodges. But you aren't wrong, most American Freemasons are white. I live in Africa so you wouldn't be shocked when I say the majority of the members locally are black.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Whatever fraternity you had in the past is irrelevant, and won't preclude you from being a Mason.

We've had guys with 60+ years in our fraternity. One guy is 95, and still full of piss and vinegar. It's as permanent as you want it to be.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

What does "Thou art god" (Lower case 'G') mean?

However, I'll say if you are an atheist, with no belief in any higher power/intelligent designer/something...somewhere...maybe that has a hand in things; then Masonry is not for you. There are prayers in lodge, but not to a specific God. We give thanks to the Grand Architect. That's about it.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

Interesting. I'll discuss that tonight.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

So, had this discussion. You need to believe in a Higher Power as something external to you.

If you can't do this, then I wouldn't recommend being a Mason.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Where'd your TRP Endorsed flair go?

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy

How long do I have to be in before I get invited to an Eyes Wide Shut Party?

[–]reigorius5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy

What I know about freemasons, here in The Netherlands, is that is mainly successful men working in the higher echelons of business, white and seeking answers to questions like what is the meaning of life. Average age is 62,5 here. Not quite the appeal to be honest.

I haven't attended an opening evening, but I'm slightly curious and wonder if the claim that all men from all layers of society is actually true. How does your loge look like? How red pill is freemasonry? Is it about the comradery?

[–]bvolkl12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

It's true men from all walks of life join. In my lodge we do have the successful businessmen rubbing shoulders with what we would call a redneck. Our lodge is directly across from arguably the fanciest bar in my city. After every meeting we head over there for a few hours of solid male bonding while being the best dressed group of SOBs in the place (we are a tuxedo lodge, always looking sharp). We also have monthly get togethers ranging from bbq's, dinners, bowling, and trivia nights at local bars.

[–]reigorius3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sounds like an okay club to me, would join it in a heartbeat. But the average age of 62,5 here is a dealbreaker. I got the number from research paper from a freemason I found online. Thanks for your reply.

[–]bvolkl6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

As I mentioned in an earlier comment the average age is artificially inflated because of life long membership. If it's something you're interested in ask what the average age of active members is. I guarantee its lower.

[–]recon_johnny5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've suggested elsewhere to go to the Stated Meeting with a Dinner you can attend (not the actual meeting inside the lodge, but beforehand).

Talk to the lodge secretary, if you want those age details. We have several brothers that are well into their 70's, and I'm close to several. There's a few that I would do anything for, and age has never been an issue. If you would have asked me years ago, I wouldn't have agreed.

[–]SnoopTiger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was really interested in freemasonry after reading the answers on this thread, but 62,5 as an average age..? I am 24 and live in Amsterdam so would bore myself I guess.

How old are you?

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I thought about joining but it's not for me, besides you have to pay monthly to be a member. And I'm a minority, so I would probably not get high up anyways.

[–]recon_johnny2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Depends. We have minorities--and they make up close to 50% of our lodge--and I'm counting Asian and Hispanic (I'm in So Cal, with a high number of military members). If you're black, then there are Prince Hall lodges.

The past 5 years have had 2 minorities as Masters of the Lodge; which is the highest you can go. I'm York Rite, and one body as a Filipino as the highest rank.

And no, it's not monthly (at least shouldn't be). It's a once a year payment.

[–]SouthPorn3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I know I could just lie, but I wouldn't want my membership to be based on that, even if it was a tiny little lie.

Do you know anyway around the God question? Or any lodges that don't have this requirement, or a similar organization?

If not I'm going to have to start my own "boys club." So to speak.

[–]bvolkl0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Not to give anything away but you swear oaths on a holy book, whether it's the bible, Koran, Torah, or the eastern scrolls (I forget what they use in India and SE Asia). As such for your oaths to be binding you must believe in a higher power.

[–]_Madison_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can give an affirmation in the US and UK.

[–]earthforce_12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think Legions are becoming more generally open now. All the WW2 veterans are dying off, so they must either close down or open up.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

What do you guys think of all the conspiracy theorists who criticize the Freemasons as an evil organisation?

[–]recon_johnny4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Dude, we plan take over of the world most every meeting.

No, not really, we're a dinner/drinking club

[–]bvolkl7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'll get an email every once in a while with a new theory in it from a brother for a laugh. Let's say hypothetically we really are an evil organization. We make up for it by donating just shy of $1B a year to our various charities world wide so that's got to at least buy us a little good karma.

[–]reigorius0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Where do you get that 1 billion from?

[–]bvolkl1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Annual internal reports put the estimated number around $900 million. Ever hear of the Shriner's children's hospitals? Those are a Freemason charity. There are numerous others but that's one a lot of people are familiar with.

[–]zarus2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

hahaha it was a couple of hours ago but my upvote ticked it up to 33

[–]Gotmilkyy2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Isn't the whole deal of the Freemasons kinda like Fight Club? Don't see a reason to talk about it outside of events or meet ups.

[–]bvolkl2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Actually to date I've not once beat the shit out of anyone for entertainment nor self improvement purposes.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Not that I've not been tempted to.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]bvolkl5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

You have to believe in some form of higher power, whether that's one God or many, doesn't really matter. Frankly, if you're an atheist and really want to join you could just fudge that small fact in the interview.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (13 children) | Copy

True or false:

Freemason's are a finger in the glove of the illuminati whom are Luciferians? Or is each lodge different?

Does the G in their symbol stand for God or gnostic?

I've heard different accounts from those supposedly in the Masons. A black guy at that, and I'm white. So much misinformation out there on the web. I suppose only one way to find out.

[–]cariboo_j5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy

I heard they keep the metric system down

[–]aakksshhaayy1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

and keep the martians under wraps

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

No way around it. Metric system sucks.

Give me a pint, not 500ml.

[–]cariboo_j0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

As someone who works with numbers on a daily basis... metric is easier to work with in almost every way.

It's a far more practical system than imperial.

[–]recon_johnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, but I like to give shit whenever I can.

Besides, I think of imperial like an older muscle car. Sure, there's better ones out there, but it's comfortable, like a pair of old jeans. And, yeah, it can rock at times.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well think about it this way. You just have to believe in a "higher power", so there are some satanists, in some lodges. Don't have anything against them but the higher you go, the more strange stories I hear about.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

I hear if you wanna be a star in Hollywood, you gotta join up. Do some "gay" shit or swinger parties. Dress as a girl or something. Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. Where's Mel Gibson these days? Or Martin Lawrence or Dave Chappelle.

[–]recon_johnny4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're confusing Masons with Scientology.

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

As a Knights Templar your first statement is hilarious.

G stands for Geometry and God. So, figure that.

Need more info, give me a PM.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Why have I had so many down votes? I don't mind, but I thought it was a legitimate question. There is often a negative connotation with the freemason and an assumed collusion with the illuminati chapter. But assumptions make the mother of all f ups. So what gives? Why the down vote? Should I go to a local mason Lodge and ask?

[–]recon_johnny1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

1) Don't bother with down or up votes. It's the smallest thing in the world, and you have much better things to do.

2) I'll respond, because I thought you had a question. If you go to a lodge, they'll not really mention anything about Knights Templar. That's another body (York Rite), and only one of three (along with Royal Arch and Cryptic).

Now a days, there is no relation at all for KT and Illuminati, and if you ask, you'll be either quietly dismissed, or folks will talk down to you--because we have no association with it, in it's present form.

Does this make sense? Have a head cold, so not that concise today.

[–]taw12761 points62 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm going to suggest specific ways to overcome the obstacles OP has laid out. Feel free to add on.

Men do not have an in-group preference. You don't need an in-group. When you're out and about, make conversation, be lively, engage groups and people. When I started doing stand-up, one of the first things I did was start befriending the regulars at the open mics. Whether or not you sit alone is up to you. So don't.

Male spaces have been contaminated. If a woman/girl is an outsider, treat her accordingly. More importantly, make sure your group agrees with the dynamics you yearn to have within a friend group. My closest network has a fair share of women in it (< 50% but > 25%). We don't bother policing each other because the majority agrees that we'll say and do what we like and anyone who doesn't like it can screw off.

... discouraged from outside friendship. Be the leader in your relationship. If you want a night out with the guys, take it. If your friends are whipped and not allowed to go out anymore, there are ways around that. One of my closest friends recently got married and had this exact problem: his wife takes up all his weekends. Instead of resigning myself to having one fewer friend, I started inviting her out as well. After the first couple of times, she decided that our group was not quite her speed and started leaving early. The same is true for my LTR. If I want to go out on my own, I tell her I'm going out on my own. If I know I'm going somewhere she'll be welcomed, I tell her to come along "as arm candy". Note: she goes to bed much sooner than I do so I've established the rule that, if she gets tired, she goes home and goes to bed. I am not bound by her routine and she knows it.

There is more social pressure on men... You don't have to hold out for the perfect opinion or the best one-liner. Just shoot the shit. Be social, make eye contact, have a good time. Chances are, if you stop worrying about what everyone else in the room will think every time you open your mouth, you'll be more natural and likeable.

... something unmasculine about male friendship There really isn't. If you believe this, stop. Man is a social animal. Make sure your existing friends know you appreciate them. Give gifts and advice regularly and with gusto. For instance, there is nothing "unmasculine" about helping a buddy move apartments. Nor is there anything "unmasculine" about paying for drinks when your friend's going through a tough time. My friends and I run together in the mornings, play music together in the evenings, we sit around drinking whisky and shooting the shit for hours some weekends. If you're having a good time, nobody's gonna point to you and say "look at those pussies". Most people will ignore your existence, some others will envy your group and strive to be part of it.

In General Get a hobby. Something you enjoy. Something social. If you enjoy stand-up, start writing and going to open mics. If you want to train in self-defense, pick up boxing or BJJ or any number of arts. If you want to get better at playing an instrument, take a group class at a local arts center.

Side Note Don't worry about coming home to "nothing". Come home to a book you really wanted to read. Come home to an evening alone with your guitar and a case of craft beer. Come home to a new recipe you've been meaning to try and make it. You can occupy yourself productively when there are no other people around. You don't have to be lonely just because you're alone.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent reply, especially your message about enjoying solitude. A lot of women are terrified about being alone and will sustain shitty relationships to avoid such a scenario.

[–]MyRedAccount2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men do not have an in-group preference

The reason women think we do is that when are being masculine and vocalizing it together it drives them away. This also applies to the male spaces being contaminated observation.

If you want to create a male space all you have to do is be male and vocalize with other males, and not let in anyone who is a pushover. Women will naturally congregate on the outskirts and the quality will depend on the males.

[–]TRPShill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

friends are good, but if you have your shit together solitude is not bad

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]nomorelulu9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh God, I always find it pathetic when a guy's behaviour completely changes once a girl is in the room. It's disgusting.

[–]kutwijf2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hard to do that when society puts it on a pedestal.

[–]TheAureate33 points34 points  (2 children) | Copy

There’s an old quote that goes, “Blood is thicker than water.”

What the hell is water?

The real quote is, “The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb.”

The family that you choose throughout your life, not the family you happen to be born into, is the family that will be there for you in your darkest times. The brothers and sisters you pick up along your journey will be held together through a bond of camaraderie stronger than any glue imaginable.

How to we find and build these relationships though?

Friendship is forged through shared experience.

The most efficient way to find people to join your tribe is to join a group, sport, or club.

Naturally, you will gravitate towards a few people in the group that you like most. – Simply spend time with them during the club meetings. Get to know them.

Once you know these people, invite them to something else you’re doing, just like in the dating video. This gives you the authority of leadership, and it provides an easy transition to the friendship mindset instead of the group mindset.

During that time, focus on create memories. Focus entirely on making fun and getting to know them more in depth. Ask them about their dreams, their fears, what drives them and what makes them feel alive.

These memories solidify the foundation of friendship, which can be built upon later by simply, “hanging out”.

This will also contribute to developing yourself. Choose something you want to be better at, and surround yourself with people that are better than you in this area. Like equilibrium, being around them will naturally bring you to their level. Through giving you and example to work towards, great advice, and encouragement.

“A real friend will push you to become the best you can be; and if they find themselves lacking in the endeavor, they will embark on the experience with you.” – u/Asoka11111

Notice People

Taking the time to give a genuinely heartfelt compliment about something specific I appreciate about a person has earned me some of the most loyal friends I have to date.

When giving a good compliment, don’t comment on something about a person. Compliment something they have DONE. Compliment their good style, or a skill they’ve worked hard to develop.

These compliments naturally turn into conversations about what you had complimented; which can easily be turned into a follow up adventure in town.

Be Kind

Kind people give to others, especially their friends, out of nothing but love. No expectations.

Friends provide for each other. There is no keeping track of who gives what to who. If you are a friend of mine, I will always have your back as much as I am able.

Life is a two-way transaction. You need to GIVE in order to GET.

Giving to your friends almost always ensures that if you are in need, they will have your back as well.

Go Conquer, my friends

– B

[–]MelodyMyst1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Peace, unto you, and those you gather.

[–]MyLittleAtomBomb14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

You can't cold-approach for male friendship without looking on some level like you want to suck his cock. Pretend your life is a movie. Go about your business and chase what fulfills you. Along the way people will enter your life naturally due to a shared common interest. That's the basis of friendship.

I'm big into football so I joined a local flag league. Took the initiative and invited a bunch of guys out to a bar to watch the local NFL team play. Got their numbers and BAM, social life.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]neanderthalensis6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

As a footnote though it's important to note that your life's journey is a solitary one. Like it or not you were alone coming into this world and you will leave it alone too, so you better be happy with who you are. Work on that and the rest should fall into place.

There's something poetic and vaguely beautiful about your final sentence.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]wakocid11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm 57. my closest friends are from college. But we all live in different states and still get together now and then. You will make and lose friends all your life. Jobs, moving, marriage, kids, no kids, no wife, etc. No big deal. You must be happy with yourself and then everything else is easy. I got married, made new friends, had kids, get different friends. Kids grow up, lose friends. On and on. I am still married, kids both out of the house now. I am an outdoors guy, hunting, ATV's etc. I do all of it on my own now. Best time of my life. I still keep in touch with the college buddies, but even they could not hang with me. They think I am crazy. btw, always been RP, we just called it "being a man". Make everyday a "challenge" and push yourself. If you want to catch what I do now, here's my youtube channel....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBWledZdKE1_IRJgVhpLfOA

[–]rouge_rain1711 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

  • Married men/men in LTR are discouraged from outside friendships. And isn't that fucked up?

You know what is said one of the identifiers of a manipulative man is? He isolates his girl from her friends.

Think about it

[–]lawrencewidman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah my wife did that shit to me. Its fucked up.

[–]Skedoolie5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

How about stop using technology so much? Samy Kamkar (famous hacker) was banned from using computers for a year(?) after he hacked MySpace back in the day. In an interview with Tim Ferriss, he said how this taught him to be social and connect with people because he had nothing better to do.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maintaining a social circle takes work. Say no to your preferred method of procrastination and make plans.

Also participate in activities and environments where male bonding comes easy. It's a lot less work to maintain a "superficial" social network of collegues, teammates and club members. This both gives you more social reach and options as well give the opportunity of developing real friendship.

Where a lot of men run into problems is when they leave those superficial circles but don't put in the effort to maintain some friendships and don't put effort into finding new circles.

Also realise that you only feasibly have room for around 5 deep relationships. Make choices, be part of networks and don't get complacent.

[–]LasherDeviance6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It can be really hard when you don't give a shit about sports as well.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours29 points30 points  (5 children) | Copy

I come home to three dogs, two huskies and a husky lab mix. I have muscle cars in the driveway, live in the woods, and I am free to do as I please. Most people annoy me, they lack the intelligence required to be enjoyable for company.

I do not come home to nothing, I have a life I created and crafted with a purpose in mind. A bitch and some hangers on are not part of the purpose.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

You are living the dream.

This is what I want one day. Just me, some dogs, some books, a piano, and a garden. Friends as a luxury, not a necessity.

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I came to terms with being on my own years ago, it's extremely rare that I met people I want to keep in my life, and I had none until I was 16 anyway. This is who I am, most can't live like I do.

[–]hiphoprising5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Most people annoy me, they lack the intelligence required to be enjoyable for company.

Really?

[–]freenglower6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

It's cool that you could get out of your this misconception that male friendships are unmasculine. I'm a gay guy and it's a lot harder for us to make friendships with straight guys, even thought it's something that i would really like - having a bro to talk about stuff. Hell, i'd probably even end up helping my bros to get girls. I think you have to try to bond with people and after a while you will end up finding what you look for, you just need to find guys that are on the same page as you - confident, smart people seeking a bro to share things with.

[–]CokaCokaCaw1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. I'm a straight guy with a best friend that happens to be gay.

[–]merkmerk73-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm a gay guy and it's a lot harder for us to make friendships with straight guys

Because it works just like it does with male/female relationships - if she's hot you're gonna wanna hit it

Same token, you're gonna be jerking it to thoughts of getting f'd in the a unless hes gross as hell. And don't even pretend you aren't.

Hell 'converting' or otherwise seducing a straight guy is one of the #1 gay fantasies out there

[–]freenglower1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

But if it isn't going to happen, why wouldn't it be possible to be friends? If you really like hanging out with a girl but she has a boyfriend or doesn't want to have sex with you, would you just stop being friends?

[–]BlueMondaze4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men like to do things of value, or relax and do what pleases them. So they're either going to find them doing something productive together if it calls for it, it just chilling by themselves when they want to. You're not going to find many groups of men that just want to "go out" to be social. If you have hobbies you can share them with other men. If you don't have hobbies don't expect anyone to want to come over and wallow in your misery together.

"Women don't feel social pressure" Lol. Women drown themselves in social pressure. Everyone feels it. Stop whining.

[–]thrwwy4256 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Some people in this thread are advocating against approaching men for fear of coming off as homo. I say that's the same thing as saying not to approach women for fear of being creepy. I've literally never had a dude strike up a conversation with me and thought, "Dude, wtf? U gay bro?" and anyone that would have that reaction has some personal issues they need to work out.

There is a social barrier to overcome in speaking to any stranger. Overcome it. A friend of mine is introverted, monotone, and has 0 luck with the ladies, but he has a bunch of friends because he goes to a bunch of shows and can strike up a conversation with anyone about music. Then they swap numbers and become show buddies. Then real buddies.

One of the reasons women make friends easily is because the cornerstone of their relationship is emotional validation. So they can enjoy each other's company simply by going out for coffee and talking. Men need something to do in order to enjoy each other. Going on a walk or sitting and talking is almost always boring for almost all men. In male friendships, it's not enough to simply be interesting, you have to find interesting things to do.

[–]Endorsed ContributorThotwrecker3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Most men fulfill their inherent social programming by social media, multiplayer gaming / gaming communities, reddit, and chatting / acquantainces at work. None of these people are really and truly your friend - yeah, yeah I know your old guildie from WoW and you go way back, but seriously, is he the dude who's going to let you crash if something happens and you need a hand? No, these are all illusory friendships.

They are social kickbacks and social behavior, sure, but they are BP alternatives, like porn is to sex. And as a result, you think you are socially fulfilled, but in reality, you're not building your network and getting better at connecting people.

It's fine to be a lone wolf if you want that. I believe every man should go lone wolf for a while to figure himself out and what he wants out of life, and minimize the distractions and BS coming in from friends. Then you realize who your real friends are and who is just draining your focus.

But ultimately having a group of friends helps you. Despite the innate shittiness and BPness of people, they still can do a lot for you.

The first step to getting it is to dehamster yourself. Your steam friends aren't friends. Your guildies aren't friends. The people you used to know and just follow on FB arent friends. Your twitter followers aren't friends, your favorite posters here aren't friends, the people you work with aren't friends, and you are only going to get friends if you go out and get it.

Once you get that mentality, it's very easy for guys to make friends. Show up, don't be a jackass, just have fun and be yourself (assuming yourself doesn't suck) and most guys won't be opposed to you being around. Invite guys to do cool shit with you - ie if you are throwing a party, ask a few guys to come from different social circles, and let them know it's cool if they want to bring their friends. Get to know their friends. Help introduce them to new people so they get to make friends. Be the bridge.

But most people don't even try because they are content enough with having fake friends in the form of social media / gaming.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

I recommend joining a jiu jitsu gym or some other martial art. My gym is mostly men and has very few women. I get along great with everyone and we grab beers occasionally after we train. You also see these people a couple of times a week so you have people to talk to on a consistent basis.

[–]MachiavEasy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I joined my gym almost 2 years ago, and had a handful of close friends. Now I've got 2 handfuls of close friends.

It used to be that me and my best friend had the most Mutual Facebook Friends, at about 45. Now me and my coach have the most Mutual Friends, with about 80, all from jits. Facebook friends are hardly friends, but it just goes to show how many people you meet, and a lot of them have become good friends.

[–]MachoMonk4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

rugby is a great sport. I play rugby with my drinking team sometimes

[–]GregariousWolf2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out.

[–]ThrowyMcGruder2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

there is something unmasculine about male friendships. You'll notice there is A LOT of social conditioning in this direction;

It's actually a bit amazing how quick women are to push this, even when it doesn't directly have anything to do with them.

I tend to watch a lot of quiz shows and, over the years, having had different girlfriends and plates, pretty much all of them roll their eyes at any pair of guys that appear on a doubles quiz show and introduce themselves as friends.

"Gay.", is what they say every time, in a derisive way.

These same women who fight for equal rights, gay marriage and do their damnedest to latch on to any gay guy as some kind of trophy friend. It has nothing to do with being gay at all.

It's about mocking straight guys who do things without women and it's such a natural instinct that the tiniest bit of logic will have them back-tracking in an "I'm not homophobic" kind of way.

But they just can't help it.

Even a pair of fity year-old, bearded, pot-bellied, beer-swilling, football-watching, darts-playing, mechanics, with wives and kids, who have been friends since school don't escape their ire.

Like dangling a string in front of a cat, they just have to take a swipe.

[–]Yogotron4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm sure this will get buried, but there seems to be some basic facts not being mentioned when we talk about "making friends" or "connecting with people".

The root of a relationship is ones ability to relate to one another. I believe success in this area is based off an old ability often lost in boys this day in age.

The ability to be honest. Honest with yourself on who you are and what you like. A man in the path to self actualization.

And honest with the person you're trying to relate to. Don't join a sport of you hate it. Don't join a chess club to prove something to yourself or others. To Be honest in who you are and what you do with others is the only sure way to invite the people in your life that are worth keeping around.

Don't be afraid to offend people with the truth, if they can't handle it they're not your buddy. Don't be afraid to be yourself. Lying to those around you sucks but lying to yourself is just abuse.

[–]princepeanutbutter9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

I dont often see a lot about not having friends and being ok with it. My job is very social and between that and dating I want alone time. Also with men in general its hard to find someone who isnt a beta loser or trying to AMOG you. Overall I find it not worth the effort.

Activity friends are good

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

its hard to find someone who isnt a beta loser

Jesus this so much, as a student of software-development i find it fucking impossible to find classmates who are not videogame/anime beta suck-ups.

[–]onepill_twopill10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

itt: legit answers plus some freemason recruiters

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]Fuck_shadow_bans5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Well that a good first step to meet other guys worth having a friendship with, but the problem is that there are very few actual "groups" of guys that hang out, and almost all of those were formed years ago, usually in college.

I did BJJ for a couple months and I noticed all the long time guys knew a lot about each other and genuinely were happy to see each other and to know what was going on in each other's lives, but I wouldn't call them friends. None of them even spent time outside of class together. None of them called each other on the weekend to go do some thing outside of BJJ together. Et cetera.

There is clearly stuff you have to do even beyond that to have "friends" the same way you did when you were younger.

[–]reigorius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. There is something odd when you grow up. When you were young, you could make friends much more easily than today. My best summerbreak was with a group of friends from a summerjob. The group split after each of us left for a different destination: uni, college, other work.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

So, with that said, can we brain storm how a man post-college, or over 30, can make new friends?

Do what you love, work on improving yourself. Then you meet those who are also doing similar. Be non-needy and be a person of value, and people will be drawn to you. Accept people as they are, don't rush it, but do lead.

OP's post is totally true, and this applies all men. So other men need friendship, you need friendship, but you're the guy who knows how to make it happen. Be loyal, be funny, be a dick, be masculine, and of course: lead and escalate.

That means inviting people out, sharing activities, hosting parties, etc. You know - the shit you like other people to do but always make excuses not to do.

It's honestly pretty easy and if you're a decent guy, you'll get decent friends.

The formula is simply this:

  • find someway somehow somewhere to be around other people doing something you enjoy or self-improvement (not bar, gym, café. Could be a club, sport, activity. Avoid social clubs (ie no core activity) which generally contain people unable to make friends elsewhere for very good reason.)
  • be completely non-needy and as indifferent as possible to what others think of you. This sets you free of social constraint and makes you more productive in doing what you want and getting what you want.
  • be a bit sociable and outgoing, but it's not particularly necessary
  • be a person of value
  • be whatever you want to be and stand for whatever you want to stand for. (This is not "be yourself", this is "do what you want to do")
  • don't try any sort of social manipulation (guys don't understand it, but can tell something is wrong). It's not necessary nor beneficial with men you want to be friends with.
  • express yourself, don't try to create an impression in others. The difference here is the difference between charming as hell and needy as fuck.
  • escalate / invite / host
  • spend quality time with people when the chance arises

Note that none of this is ever "trying to make friends" which generally looks needy. This is "being friends and making stuff happen".

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]CluelessCat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You ask them to hang out outside of the study group.

[–]Chad_Thundercock692 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I've said this many times on this sub and I'll say it again, check out your local pua lair. (pua = pickup artist) Depending on it's size you'll see different groups emerge.

Some groups have the noobs, some groups have the weird people and some groups have the cool people. But everyone there is there to improve their skills with women, and many also have a strong focus on self-improvement in general.

Feels good to approach a girl, have to go terribly wrong and not have to worry about your friends teasing/tormenting you the entire night for it. Also you'll feel like approaching 10+ girls a night because it'll be normalised as everyone else is doing it as well.

THIS SHIT CHANGED MY LIFE

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

What is a Pick-up artist lair? And what do you do together other than sarging for girls?

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Should I feel stupid doing this at 35?

[–]Chad_Thundercock691 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My lair has ~200 people, there's a lot of guys in their thirties but only a few go out regularly, some are fucking cool and some are beta fatties.

[–]Realworld2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I have no natural social skills. By experience, I've found it's effortless to make new friends. Too easy and too many, in fact.

If a stranger is standing within conversational distance distance of you, they've already subconsciously decided you're safe. Standing sideways to them, glance at them and ask anything (in context of where you are) and listen to their response. If they continue talking, turn more towards them, and ask a couple more questions and listen to what they say. A significant number will keep talking and soon suggest another activity you might be interested in. If you indicate interest, they'll invite you along.

This works everywhere in the world. If you're open to it, you'll experience all kinds of adventures with your own personal and knowledgeable guide.

[–]stunningandbrave5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you can play an instrument, join a band.

Fuck it. Why not?

You don't have to be the next Nirvana, you're supposed to have something to look forward to.

Play metal or be a mariachi band, it doesn't matter, just have fun.

[–]tallwheel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I joined one very recently. In fact, we have only practiced once so far, have scheduled our second practice, and are still looking for a drummer and singer. It remains to be seen what kind of friendships will be made, but so far I'd say practicing is a lot of time and work! I'm having trouble fitting it into my schedule between my other obligations and hobbies.

Anyway, though I can't report much at this early stage, hoping it turns out for the best.

[–]EleriumAvenger1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Recently met a marine veteran who was working on capital hill. He talked about his fly fishing club and how it has been come so much more. They brew beer, plan hikes, and collectively get in their bro time. The biggest problem his group faces is finding men whom you would want to bro out with. Due to the betaization of most men their are not enough leaders to form groups and those with the leadership skills to form said groups have little to gain for forming them. The best solution is to have/learn social hobbies that are an interest shared with men in their 20's through retirement age.

[–]nuesuh1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No one calls you on the phone? Then I guess you have time to do shit.. And, other guys also do shit. You can do that shit together.

A sport, a hobby, a club. Pleanty of guys in all ages to bond with. Friends you haven't meet yet.

[–]Ojisan11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Get a hobby, and join a local group (such as a meetup) for that hobby. Last year I got into motorcycling, and have met some good people that way.

[–]slimcoat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I invite a bunch of guys over for poker and board games once a week. It works for me.

Find a hobby, invite men to it.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]TurduckenII0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I as well youtube searched it and couldn't find anything. Could anyone provide the link?

[–]metalfan20[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I might get down votes for this but so be it. I recently moved to a new state. I knew nobody besides extended family. So I decided to expirament with Craig's list. I have met about 3 guys through there and we have all hit off pretty well. Turns out we have the same interests. They were also very receptive of Red Pill talk. I don't necessarily seen this as something that will work 100% of the time but so far it's worked for me.

However I agree with a lot of the other guys on here. Develop your hobbies or join some meet ups.

[–]Eugenics20151 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The problem is that most men are taught to place all their emotional needs in the hands of women. It hasn't always been this way.

Homophobia killed male friendship.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/08/24/the-history-and-nature-of-man-friendships/

[–]yomo861 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

I like to add an exclusion: Never under pain of death look for male friends within the scope of your profession with the further exception of making friends with a single individual.

For instance if you are a doctor never try to make friends at the christmas party organization team of the hospital. Most males use the profession as a mean to an end to get laid aka being the BB. The white knights and betas will be prevelant.

I bought an old 1987 motorcycle, a lot of shit is broken on this bike but there is a dedicated group of men in my town dealing together concerning issues with their bikes.

[–]HappyScribe5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

Some of my best friends work in the same profession. Often we'll hang out together and talk about the industry, about the problems we have and help each other out... I've lent and borrowed equipment, taken advice, used their holiday homes. Also, we're not direct competitors, but there's a certain amount of competitiveness which is pretty healthy. It's as near to a mastermind group as I'm likely to get.

[–]yomo860 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I know what you are saying. However, more and more men are actually girls and having people around me who have a real chance of fucking with my professionel life just for pussy... I don't know man.

[–]HappyScribe2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Maybe it's different when you're older. Most of my friends have steady LTRs and are as aggressive as fuck about excellence in their industry. Maybe you just need to hang out with guys older than your peer group?

[–]ThePacketSlinger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, pretty much the same for me (IT). But if you're anything like me I'm guessing that you didn't meet those guys at an industry event or anything. All of my in - industry friends I met through other friends who wanted me to meet their other techy friend.

[–]Purecorrupt1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

You never want to give all your "real thoughts" away to someone who's drinking too much of the kool-aid.

I would agree to not try and become actual friends with everyone at work, but I think you are missing out on potential allies if you do not at least come off as friendly. You never know when you'll need one.

[–]yomo861 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Damn you are right. Allies. But not the RP definition of friend a I-would-lie-under-oath-for-you-friend.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Right there with you. It's very troubling.

I feel like I've alienated everyone I know now that I've swallowed the red pill.

My problem is clear though. I've tried to make others see our point of view here; as I've always thought of myself as a leader. But they don't want to hear the truth or our version of it. They want to live in their perfect little world, blind and ignorant to the harsh realities we men today face.

In order to gain acceptance into other cliques of men, I have had to adapt and be "chameleon" so to speak. It's not fun and I almost prefer the solitude to that life.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

Dude just don't preach. I thought keeping this shit for yourself was rule #1. Show through your actions not your words and for fucks sake never use the lingo.

[–]ThePacketSlinger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Another way to put this is to teach but not lecture. As people get to know you and see that you do things differently than most people they know, they may begin to ask you why you do certain things differently. This is pretty much the only win-win scenario where you can teach someone something as an equal and have everyone walking away feeling good about the exchange. I think anything else has a tendency of coming off as condescending or preachy.

[–]hailhailhailandkill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Q: Cui bono?

A: Already or to-be pedestialized females. Another zone to dominate. Less outer interaction and more time & attention assigned to them. Seawater effect, the more you feed the more they get thirsty!

As for the brain storm; socialities like football games (sports in general), hubble-bubble culture, gym laddism, arranging reunions with former co-eds etc seem fine. Especially some married men underestimate social life by getting deceived that their unicorn wives can fill all the gaps.

[–]kalo_asmi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Join a club. Bikers, golf, anything that interests you.

[–]Hans_Holo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Host a regular poker night (every other week is perfect). Keep the buy-in very cheap. The regularity allows people to set SO's expectations well ahead of time, and no one feels pressure to attend every time. The low buy-in means it stays friendly.

Men take a long time to warm up. Getting in close proximity and some friendly competition eventually breaks down the barriers.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Old friends are better than new friends, that a place to start. After that the activities you do, especially hard ones that women cant tolerate usually is a good place to make friends. Army training, Boxing, fight camps, construction. I have to admit it is difficult to maintain good friends as you say they are not rewarded to keep friendships and men dont have a culture of keeping friends typically. Lastly I think as your social game improves you find cooler people, by being cool. That is if you have value, people will want to hang out with you. That being said, it is very hard to become valuable to people at large, but there is no harm in trying to become the man.

[–]KneeDeep1850 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I do sports that my LTR is generally intimidated by, and therefore has no interest in joining. Namely, skiing and downhill mountain biking, and also table tennis. Sports are a great excuse to be gone and do your own thing for half a day or a random weeknight (table tennis), and it's pretty easy to find a guy friend who wants to join. When you're doing sports you don't have to share intimate details about your life if you don't want to, you keep your hands busy, and you feel a lot better after. Plus when you get better, you become more competitive and it feels like you're actually building something/working toward something.

[–]bigslates0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Hi, do you know the name of Tyler's video you are referring to?

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I'll look for it, but his videos are tough to sort through because he goes off-topic a lot; the channel was RSDFreeTour, though- all great videos.

[–]bigslates0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Cheers, there's definitely a lot to be learned from him!

[–]Cmbaugh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

(even if those friendships are superficial)

This is crazy true. I've known girls that literally Hate all their friends but continue to hang out/ be nice to them for reasons unknown to me.

[–]twatbutter0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It really sucks to lose close friends you've known since childhood, but part of becoming your own man is trying to be sociable on top of being fit/successful.

I won't hamster around the truth of it though-- it's not even about "growing distant." Sometimes people you thought were loyal friends shunt their responsibilities and leave you when you're needed. These are not true male friends-- these are pretenders.

[–]AlphaG240 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel like most of my friends that I've lost over the years tend to leave the group for a woman. It's total bullshit cause when they break up, they tend to crawl back into the group like a little bitch. It sucks having a bro behind you that you think is going to be your wingman until you die, then he puts a ring on any girl who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Raise your value and exchange/share your value with other men. I've noticed my stronger male-male relationships don't just "chill" together and not do anything, we do productive shit together like work on cars, play sports, shoot ect and less frequently just chill/not do anything. The friendships I have/had that are more recreational usually don't last.

[–]nikeforged0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Golf does it for me. During the golf season. Men's night, every Wednesday. Skins night (cash games) every Thursday. Tournaments Fridays and Saturdays. When there are no local tournaments we play cash games on Saturday. Three or four days a week out with the guys. There are no women that tag along. Its fucking great.

[–]ChrisBenRoy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

IDK how it applies or what I do that's different, but I have a shit load of close friends. Probably even at least 5 dudes who I'd take a bullet for and they'd do the same for me. This is a somewhat baffling concept for me.

[–]TRPShill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

"Think of being in a new environment; a man will usually sit alone while a woman will have no problem sitting with the other women there. "

I think this touches on something. Men are not immediately given social value because they have to show they are worth something. Women have immediate value thanks to their ovaries. Its why the #masculinitysofragile hashtag is hilarious. Of course masculinity is fragile, it isnt granted by your genitals.

[–]TheRealMouseRat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Join a group of people with the same interests as you. (amateur soccer team, very small weight lifting gym, orchestra, whatever really) Men bond over activities they do together is my experience. So to get and keep friends, have shared interests and do those things together.

[–]surfjihad0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Golf was made for acquiring new friends and mercifully it remains mostly a male space uninvaded by women.

[–]anon_throwaway00 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I am one of these..i have a few friends but none close enough to really give a shit about me or we hang out like once a yr or so

[–]n0oo70 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Find a hobby, Find men who like the hobby, Share the hobby?

[–]BlueChilli0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We can all drink alone, together.

[–]NYCMusicMarathon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The Bro Code - 1 tiny helpful point.

The sooner one man can kid another man about something ...

The sooner they can both trust each other a little more.

summary: Bros kid each other - it's a sign of friendship.

[–]malariasucks0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm married and I don't really experience the aspect where I am discouraged from going out with friends, even though I have a kid, but a buddy of mine does. His wife complains about a lot, it seems endless. What she really needs is a life and a job.

I'm fortunate though. I'm able to go out as I please and as it should be.

[–]hairaware0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Just go to the gym. Be friendly. Bam insta friends.

[–]1pluvoaz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The hobby thing works like a charm.

When I had my 4x4 I joined a club. It was a mix of singles, couples & families with maybe 20% female & those were mostly spouses/girlfriends.

We had monthly meetings and an online forum. There was a scheduled run every month plus occasional 'mod days' for working on our rigs and even a chili cookoff. We ran support for a Toys 4 Tots bike ride every summer for charity.

Thanks to the forum, folks would post when they were going somewhere & invite others on the impromptu outings. I met some really cool people, had almost no drama & a lot of good times.

As you'd expect, when my daughter got older & we stopped participating we lost contact with everybody. That's just the name of the game.

Now, I just really enjoy my own company. Most people I meet really aren't worth my time. I'm sure this is my fault for not hanging out in the right places but frankly I have no interest.

[–]ahmedpie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This shits pretty fucking depressing. Even though this post speaks a lot of truth, its pretty fucking sad how hard this post got upvoted

[–]mcdileo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was talking about this with some older (retirement age) guys in my small group. One of them said he doesn't really have friends outside of the group. We're a lot alike in that we don't really call people, but the guy leading suggested calling someone and asking them out for breakfast before work. I'm trying it now with a good guy I'm mostly acquaintances with. It seems like a good way to build a friendship, by having a small group of guys you can be open with or just sit there and shoot the breeze. Either way, nothing can happen unless we act.

Edit: I also wanted to add that I had started looking at new groups to meet new people, but I realized that I already know people, and the mental barrier is stronger in my mind to get closer to them than it is to meet new ones. I'm going to focus more on what I do have, otherwise I'll just keep making superficial relationships.

[–]Philhelm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Up until the age of 18, I had gone to ten schools in twelve years, throughout three different states. I always made friends where I went, and eventually made some long-term friends in (my second) high school. I also made some friends from college and the army. After living in one state for about ten years, I changed states and now have one half-friend who I only see maybe a dozen times per year. Things definitely change.

I think that the first piece of advice for making new friends is to stop chasing women! Seriously, I spent most of my time meeting women and getting laid. I'd be introduced to some of their friends, but as the relationships were usually brief, I would have to start over at ground zero, not knowing a soul in the (immediate) world. I should have tried to make friends, then chase pussy.

[–]TRPhd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Brew beer; you will make friends at the brew shop. (I've found the best spot is by the hops/yeast refrigerator. These are very opinion/taste specific, and are thus open to nigh endless discussion.) As a plus, discussing mash temps and all-grain vs. partial-mash ad nauseum will make women watch PBS to avoid the numbing boredom.

Seriously, beer. It works.

[–]1RXRob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Play a sport. Find a running club. Join a gym.

I was 31 when I turned up to my first wrestling training session. Two years later and most of my friends are wrestlers.

[–]92Hippie0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't really have male friends. My male friends have been friends since high school. No need for more, or at least I'm not gonna try to find them. If it happens it happens. I'd rather have close female friendships. It's good practice, and some may turn to nice relationships.

[–]rocketace80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

its pretty rough to have such friendships I'm found. its easy to have drinks w/ colleagues, but unless you have friends from college, it is unusual to have lasting male friendships - it always feels awkward trying to do so (a bit gay almost).

[–]criveros0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Join your local pick-up facebook community. You can meet like-minded men there while becoming a better person.

[–]2RedPill4LYF0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Step 1. Bathe and put on an outfit that doesn't smell like BO.

Step 2. Go somewhere you would want to go if you had friends.

Step 3. Make your priority to be social and have a good time.

Step 4. Repeat steps 1-3 daily or as often as is manageable until you no longer feel like an awkward retard doing these things.

Step 5. Life sucks. You're not the only one struggling to make friends. Don't give up, just learn from your experiences and become the person you will be when you find out who your friends are.

[–]occupythekitchen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The other day I am talking with my roommates two chicks. Well the topic was how they'd like to adopt. Fucking Jesus I told them I never even considered and why the fuck was that the topic since we are all broke college students. People are just circlejerking about how good they are

[–]McLarenX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Isn't it obvious? Everything that historically was in place to unite white western males has been contaminated in the name of social globalism. The only threat that exists to that agenda is the white western male, and they're doing a damn good job at suppressing that threat.

[–]daveofmars0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I joined the Free Masons because my friends were as well. It's not a bad institution if you're interested in improving yourself, traditions, and hanging out with other men without the influence of women. You don't have to be super religious either, so long as you're not an atheist or catholic.

[–]daveofmars0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

I joined the Free Masons because my friends were as well. It's not a bad institution if you're interested in improving yourself, traditions, and hanging out with other men without the influence of women. You don't have to be super religious either, so long as you're not an atheist or catholic.

[–]NYCMusicMarathon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Catholic version used to be
Knights of Columbus.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you are afraid of being mistaken for gay you have bigger problems.

[–]Fulp_Piction-4 points-3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Jesus Christ.

Point 1: it's hard being a man waaaaah! Feminists are bad waaah! (Sound familiar?)

Point 2: The feminists are opressing us men waaaah! (And again.)

Point 3: Our LTR's are oppressing us waaaaah! (...)

Point 4: Society is oppressing us, waaaaaaaah! (...)

For fuck's sake, this is honestly the most beta post I've seen on the sub in all my time here.

STOP MAKING FUCKING EXCUSES FOR BEING A LAZY, ANTISOCIAL LOSER. EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF YOUR POINTS BLAMED SOMEBODY ELSE FOR YOUR SHIT LIFE. IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT, IT'S YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY TO ADAPT AND SUCCEED.

There's like 140k subs here. Add to that the amount of lurkers, and that total doesn't include anybody who's never seen Reddit. You're telling me you can find one like minded friend? Christ. Even at that, most of my friends are beta, it doesn't matter. You lead them, inspire them to change and let nature do its work on those too weak/stupid to follow.

If you want to make real male friends you need to go find a place where men go. Sports, martial arts, a men's shed, the bar during a football game. Even work? Be confident, pass the shit tests and have some fun. Everybody is on the same boat once you prove yourself, men want to be friends with whoever they look up to (read the way of men). You have the fucking keys to life in the sidebar and top posts and you're still blaming other people. Fuck alpha & beta, until you grow a set and grab the fucking bull by the fucking horns you will always be a failure. Life isn't fair. You're a disposable, good for nothing AVERAGE man in western society, go do something about it, dickweed. /r

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I'm with you bro.

Sincerely, The guy down voted more than you

[–]ComradeCatilina-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not being an asshole helps alot.

[–]throwaway-aa2-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Easy: find wingmen. 9 times out of 10 these will be the guys on the path to improvement that have value and are a pleasure to be around. So pound the pavement in your city and look (in person or online) for wingmen, and they'll naturally become your friends if you are at the requisite level.

[–]RavelsBolero-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would advise guys to meet their dad's friends, and go out drinking with him/them when the chance arises.

You can get an insight into how your town or nation was decades ago, and I've found it very fascinating observing the social dynamics between older people. They are much more politically incorrect I find, for one amusing thing.

[–]bye---felicia-3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy

men are not women. Being socially responsible requires time, energy, patience, and a whole bunch of other bullshit not worth the effort. most men already deal with that at work/partner/kids. others, couldn't give a shit on the low yielding, non fuckable reward that this "friendship" could possibly provide. most M:M "friendships" are one sided mentorships, anyway.



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