Don't Ever Talk To The Police

yaysmr · 2016-02-11T18:51:53+00:00

Criminal Defense attorney here: can confirm.

Unless the cops catch you directly in the act of doing something and have it on camera (and even then) the single best thing you can do to protect yourself down the line is to shut the fuck up.

Don't admit to it and try and reason/weasel your way out, don't pretend to be confused as to what you did or didn't do, and DO NOT try and ingratiate yourself to the cop and appeal to his better nature.

There's a 10% chance that the above methods will work, but a 90% chance that it WILL be used against you down the line.

When a new case hits my desk, the first thing I do is check the police report to figure out if my client said anything stupid to the cops while they were taking him in. If they were smart enough to remain silent, and there is not much other evidence on hand (circumstantial at best) then I know there's a great chance of the case being dismissed altogether.

The police aren't even the core problem, they're just there to figure out if anybody needs to be arrested. They get to make that choice, but once you've been arrested you are IN the system, and the system does not love you, nor does it hate you, but it does view you as fodder for the grinder and it WILL pull you on inexorably to an eventual conviction.

Nobody at any stage of this process cares what happens to you. Not the judge, not the prosecutor, not the police officers, and maybe not even your defense attorney unless you're paying them a LOT. But the advantage you have is that unless you do something to make them care, they are also going to do whatever it takes to not have to deal with you. If you make it hard enough for them to convict you and you don't have any other flags on your case, you CAN get them to ultimately drop the charges. You just have to be disciplined enough to resist all their little incentives designed to get you to plea and demand ALL your rights (speedy trial is a big one, but right to silence and right to an attorney are crucial too) so that they have to work to get you.

And lets say you DO get caught and plea guilty to the charge to avoid the hassle of fighting. You are now even MORE fucked because the next time you get brought in for something, whether you did it or not, you've lost any 'benefit of the doubt' that may have existed in your favor.

See what I'm saying?

When interacting with a cop staying silent means:

Not giving up any information that might convict you
Not pissing them off intentionally or accidentally (as long as you comply with their other legal requests).
Not waiving any of your rights
Making it clear that you won't be bullied or cajoled into a plea

As soon as you open your yap and say something you run the risk of making a statement that you CANNOT take back that will destroy any chance of a victory at the outset. That risk is NOT worth taking, and my job as a defense attorney is much easier when they can't bring up a recorded confession.

All of this will not even guarantee that the system won't fuck you (especially if you're black, sad to say), but at least you will no longer be complicit in your own fucking.

Floorfood · 2016-02-12T05:34:57+00:00

Whenever this comes up on an international forum, I feel obligated to point out to my UK guys that silence can be a very bad idea under arrest in this country.

Courts can (and will) use your silence against you here - much better to just deny direct accusations with a simple "no" and probing questions with "I don't recall" or "I'm not sure", as appropriate. Saying nothing can be used as a sign of guilt here, sadly.

princepeanutbutter · 2016-02-11T19:19:11+00:00

Thank god I watched this years ago. Got arrested, awkwardly stayed literally silent under questioning. Got a lawyer, turns out they botched the case. Caught a lesser charge. 10 days in jail and $5k is instead 8 hours highway cleanup and $1k.

NeoreactionSafe · 2016-02-11T17:20:50+00:00

My old passion as a younger man was riding motorcycles either dirt bikes in areas which were illegal or street racing on road racing type bikes. As a result I've dealt with the police before (more than once) and here is my advice.

Don't obsess on your own emotions.

What the policeman wants is his day to go easy for him. He sees all kinds of stress all day long and frankly he is tired of it most of the time. He really is just doing his job because he needs the paycheck and likely couldn't think of an alternative profession to get into other than being a cop.

So just make things go smoothly.

Lower your emotional tone.

If he responds to light humor do that.

Do not go on an emotional rant about the unfairness of him doing his job.

Don't give away information, but don't appear too punk like either.

truthyego · 2016-02-11T18:02:43+00:00

When it comes to domestic issues,if the cops are at your door and a woman's in distress and holding you responsible there won't be any negotiation. The only options you'll have will be which side of the cruiser to sit on as you're going downtown on a DV arrest.

icecow · 2016-02-11T18:45:16+00:00

I would actually recommend you listen to it multiple times to ensure it is ingrained into your head.

I recommend re-watching it every 6-18 months afterwards as well.

tldr; odds are any key evidence or 'evidence' police aquire is from talking to YOU.

[deleted] · 2016-02-11T19:31:42+00:00

I found this video a few years back myself. I think it's incredibly important for everyone to understand. I'm a paralegal and can't give legal advice, but let me tell you...the law is NOT on your side. Please watch this video and take it to heart. Be very respectful to the police though. Believe me, it's better to avoid an escalated situation altogether than it is to fight it after the fact in court. A polite "I'm sorry officer I don't feel comfortable doing that" will get you much further than "I don't have to answer that" in a snotty tone of voice. Cops are the scum and bottom of society enforcing unjust laws on a daily basis and nobody hates them more than me, but letting your emotions get in the way is only going to end badly for everyone. Cops will try to bully you into getting what they want, and are much better at confusing you than the other way around. Be safe gentlemen!

SureImShore · 2016-02-11T16:58:16+00:00

Excellent advice. Would also add a line to use when police want to "get your side of the story" or "have a chat down at the station":

Am I under arrest/being detained?

If you are not under arrest, you are under no obligation to speak with police or go anywhere with them. Cops use this as a way of gathering information by trying to seem like they're on your side, that they're reasonable actors and want to help clear you. Most people assume that if they haven't done anything wrong, they have nothing to fear. They also assume they would never say anything that could incriminate themselves, because they would see it coming.

Do not fall for this. I don't care how smart you are or how many episodes of Law & Order you've seen. Police are better than you at this. Its their job; its what they do everyday. When they don't have an arrest for a crime, its "open" and they have to spend time and resources investigating it. They're only focus is to close open cases, irrespective of whether the person in question is truly guilty or innocent.

wanderer779 · 2016-02-12T02:08:45+00:00

Every attorney I've ever heard says the same thing yet we still have guys here chiming in with, "just be nice and answer their questions."

TermsOfColors · 2016-02-11T19:44:32+00:00

1.) Don't get married. 2.) Don't bang crazy off Tinder. 3.) Don't talk to Police.

yummyluckycharms · 2016-02-11T19:55:17+00:00

One thing I can add to this discussion is applicable to canadians.

You dont have a right to have a lawyer present when being interviewed. Cops are allowed, and often do, keep you in retention stewing in the hope that you'll talk. Sometimes, they'll even put you in the holding cells with hyper violent crazies in the hope that violence will happen, and they can rescue you to be the "good guys". In many ways, we have less rights than Americans.

Never talk to police, avoid fighting if you are put in the holding cell, and always memorize the number for your lawyer. Having it in your wallet is rather useless as they take all of your possessions away from you.

RustyJack82 · 2016-02-13T07:47:01+00:00

For the benefit of those who do not have the patience/time of sitting through a 50 minutes video, here are the 7 key points in a nutshell:

1. There is no way it can help

You can't talk your way out of getting arrested
You can't give thm any information that will help you at trial. See federal Rule of Evidence 801(d)(2)(A).
What you tell the police is only allowed when it is offered against you by the prosecutor
(If the defence attorney tries to ask an officer to repeat something the client told the officer, that is favorable for the client, the prosecutor can object and call it "hearsay". Anything you say may be used against you, but never for you.)

2. If your client is guilty - and even if he is innocent - he may admit his guilt with no benefit in return - What's the rush?

In federal court, 86% of all defendants plead guilty at some point before the trial.
Your statement to the police may not be admissible evidence by the time of the trail
Even Innocent People Confess
The innocence Project: "In more than 25% of DNA exoneration cases, innocent defendants made incriminating statements, delivered outright confessions or pled guilty."

3. Even if your client is innocent and denies his guilt and mostly tells the truth, he can easily get carried away and tell some little lie or make some little mistake that will hang him

In a stressful situation, you may get carried away and tell a small lie
E.g. "I wasn't near the scene of the crime! Heck, I wasn't even in the state at that time." In this case the police can disprove the last bit and show that the client was in the state. If some statement you made was a provable lie, it makes you look guilty, even if they cannot directly prove you actually did it.

4. Even if your client is innocent and ONLY tells the truth, he will always give the police some information that can be used to help convict him.

(The odds of anybody being able to only tell the truth are very slim).
E.g. "I'm a peaceful man. I've never fired a gun in my life. I didn't like the guy, but I didn't kill him." The prosecution will focus on "I didn't like the guy" as motive, and ignore everything else.
Ohio v Reiner, 532 U.S. 17,20 (2001) (Internal punctuation and citations ommitted): "One of the Fifth Amendment's basic functions is to protect innocent men who otherwise might be ensnared by ambiguous circumstances. Truthful responses of an innocent witness as well those of the wrongdier, may provide the government with incriminating evidence from the speaker's own mouth."
Ullmann vs United States, 350 U.S. 422, 426 (1956): "Too many, even those who should be better advised, view this privilege as a shelter for wrongdoers. They too readily assume that those who invoke it are either guilty of crime or commit perjury and claiming the privilege."

5. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating, there is still a grave chance that his answers can be used to crucify him if the police don't recall his testimony with 100% accuracy

(It's almost impossible for the client to only tell the truth AND not say anything incriminating, especially after talking for several hours)
E.g. A criminal lawyer was accused of putting his hands around a woman lawyer's throat, during an argument over some case. There were no other witnesses.
The police asked to speak with him and he agreed because he thought he was savvy enough to not incriminate himself. But this conversation was not recorded.
During the trial, the woman said he did it, and he denied, so it was his word against hers.
Then the police took to the stand and said that during questioning, the lawyer had admitted putting his hands around her throat as a joke. The lawyer denied he ever said that, but now it was 2 people's word against his.
The police may not necessarily be lying, they just need imperfect recall.
However, police officers/detectives are seen by the jury as professional witnesses, even though the police are fallible and have imperfect recall. So in cases where it's the client's word against the police, the jury tends to trust the police.

6. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating and his statement is videotaped, his answers can be used to crucify him if the police don't recall their questions with 100% accuracy.

E.g. If the client says he has never touched a gun in his life.
The police can claim that they never mentioned there was a shooting, and that the client who brought it up had "guilty knowledge".
The client can deny this and say that shooting was brought up earlier (e.g. in the car on the way to the station), but now it's the client's word against the police.

7. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating and the entire interview is videotaped, his answers can still be used to crucify him if the police have any evidence, even mistaken or unreliable evidence that any of his statements are false, even if they were true.

"I don't know who robbed that store. It wasn't me. I wasn't even in Virginia Beach that night; I was four hours away visiting my mom in the Outer Banks."
E.g. The police may have an unimpeachable witness (non-enemy, no reason to lie) who sincerely but mistakenly thinks they saw the client at virginia beach. This casts doubt on the client's whole testimony and makes them look guilty.
Also, mom's word is worth nothing. *If the client is seen to have lied (whether the client is actually lying or the police have unreliable evidence that makes a true statement look like a lie), their sentence will be harsher.

The truth can wait until your day in court, when you know what cards the prosecution is playing, and what to say to the jury. Until then, DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE.

random5200 · 2016-02-12T02:48:48+00:00

I learned a few years ago to never talk to the police, luckily I knew my rights at the time and had seen this video as well.

I was at a concert about 3 years back. It was a pretty big event, spanning several days across multiple campgrounds and with a lot of big name artists.

On the 3rd or 4th day my friends and I got invited to a party at some RV. We went over and started talking to chicks etc... After a few hours the 3 friends I had arrived with picked up chicks and went into the concert separately. I was talking to a girl when another girl comes up to me, puts her hands on me and tells me to "back off my sister." The girl I'm with doesn't mind being with me so I push her away and tell her to leave us alone. Queue White Knight radar in half the dudes at the party. Some drunk guy comes up to me and swings, I back up to dodge the punch, but in the process knock over some random girl. All hell breaks loose, drunk White Knights are trying to fight me, girls are calling me out for "hitting a woman" etc... It's me against this whole party of people so I get out of the area as fast as I can and head back to my campsite where some of my other friends are chilling.

About 15 minutes later a lynch mob arrives with about 5 cops.

Cops come up to me and ask about what happened.

"I want to talk to my lawyer."

"Tell us what happened, these people are saying you started a fight and knocked 2 girls out. What really happened?"

"I want to talk to my lawyer."

Cops arrest me.

I spent the next ~12 hours a single holding cell sweating my ass off.

One of my friends posted my bail and I was released. I was originally charged with a felony, a couple misdemeanors and some other smaller stuff. This is the most important part of this story: While I said absolutely nothing to the cops. Everyone and their second-cousin twice removed at the RV party gave the police the full details of the event. The problem is that eye-witness reports are bad enough. When you add in alcohol, low-lights and drugs all accounts go out the window.

There were about 20 different versions of the events that transpired, that led to my arrest. I was able to get all charges dropped and the court fee waived because I said nothing. My lawyer went through the witness statements, made the bias clear to the judge and got me off.

Lessons I learned:

Never talk to the police under any circumstances.
If you get into a fight, do what you have to do to defend your friends and yourself and get the fuck out.
If you do get into trouble DO NOT try be your own lawyer. Pay for a good one. (I paid about $2500.) [Which is a lot cheaper than having future employers see that I am a convicted felon]
Never be put into a situation where you are alone, drinking, with a group of strangers.

venicerocco · 2016-02-11T20:14:29+00:00

"I don't answer questions" is the phrase you're looking for.

McLarenX · 2016-02-11T20:15:29+00:00

Cops are looking for an easy arrest or to lock up someone who they believe is dangerous. They'll also fuck with you if you antagonize them. Don't provide any of these things and you'll be surprised what happens.

Rommel0502 · 2016-02-12T06:23:00+00:00

My best friend has been a DA for almost 15 years. His single most consistent piece of legal advice to me? NEVER answer questions from a police officer without representation present. Even with routine traffic stops, the questions are intentionally designed to screw you.

Il128 · 2016-02-12T01:55:43+00:00

Protip: Your house has more rights than you do. If the police come to your door you don't have to answer it. They will go away eventually unless they have just cause. 9/10 they don't have cause to bust in your door.
If they call your phone you don't have to answer it. Never talk to the police over the phone. Ever.

Danimal876 · 2016-02-12T04:07:30+00:00

Am a cop, cannot confirm. I've personally come across situations where the evidence was initially pointing in favor of the woman, but because the man pointed out evidence in his favor, the woman was actually arrested for domestic assault (she literally threw her shit at him). This attitude that cops are just out to get convictions (it makes no goddamn difference to us if you are convicted) is BS. We're here to enforce the law. If our investigation shows that no one should be arrested, we do not want to and will not arrest you.

Then there are all the times that a predominate aggressor cannot be determined, and no one is charged with anything. If I show up to a domestic assault call and the woman says "He hit me!" and shows me a bruise, while the guy refuses to say anything, guess who is going to jail? Meanwhile, if he had shown me the scratch marks under his shirt he put on as we got there, things would have been different. Actually had that happen where the woman showed me her marks after already being taken to jail.

Never talk to the police? What about if I'm going door-to-door looking for a missing kid or asking if anyone saw someone suspicious over a night where there were larcenies from cars outside? Don't be an ass.

plenkton · 2016-02-11T21:12:13+00:00

That which I think is important, is not talking to the police, even if you are the victim. Let the courts do their work. Unless the purpetrator is getting away, keep your mouth shut.

Limekill · 2016-02-12T07:14:08+00:00

So true.

And when your lawyer tells you not to talk to anyone.... please follow that advice - it makes it really difficult for us to defend you when you fucking blab to "only one person" and then they appear for the prosecution.

MakeEmSayAyy · 2016-02-12T08:53:53+00:00

And if any of you guys do drugs, wear compression shorts and always shove ur drugs up ur asshole. I've done it for ages and I've always been good.

Soarinc · 2016-02-12T08:57:17+00:00

I vote for this on sidebar!! I had police in a dv altercation put words into my mouth that I never said.

[deleted] · 2016-02-12T14:21:11+00:00

You can't talk your way out of trouble with the police. They are interested in gathering evidence against you.

If you say something that incriminates you then they consider it very credible.

If you say something that exonerates you they don't believe you and probably won't record it or will suppress it later.

The police are like corporations. They are not moral. They enforce the law. They are not there to set people free. They are there to put them in jail and gather enough evidence to keep them there.

The police are not your friends even if you think you know them.

[deleted] · 2016-02-12T20:08:40+00:00

Cops are not there to protect you, they're there to protect the state and it's structures of taxing.

DRMMR76 · 2016-02-12T06:58:33+00:00

I wonder how many people in this thread who are claiming to conclusively know what all cops (there's over a million) want are actually cops themselves or have ever actually even had a real conversation with someone who is a cop.

CardinalGuitar · 2016-02-11T18:08:59+00:00

Great post Clint, I really appreciated your business write-ups a few days ago. Keep it up with the content.

EscortSportage · 2016-02-11T19:38:34+00:00

This guy is glowing! Great video, great energy.

Fuck_shadow_bans · 2016-02-11T20:01:38+00:00

There's a much, much better one that I can hopefully dig up. It's an ex-cop who became a lawyer, so he has perspective on both sides of the situation.

WalterEArmstrong · 2016-02-11T20:50:31+00:00

This vid has been around a long time and classifies as an "Oldie But Goodie". It's well worth the time it takes to view it.

"On the advice my attorney, sir, I invoke my right to remain silent."

Brewjo · 2016-02-11T22:05:10+00:00

It was one of the first utoob videos I ever watched. Love it.

Clint_Redwood · 2016-02-12T02:10:57+00:00

I understand this in the context you described, and I watched the video. Great things to keep in mind.

But how are these concepts applied to something small like say, a traffic stop, etc.? Part of me wants to think that being difficult with the cop will leave me worse off, whether it's true or not.

Luckyluke23 · 2016-02-12T05:48:47+00:00

i take the stance of NWA

great post man, people forget about this.

NotUpToAnythingGood · 2016-02-12T06:15:10+00:00

There are very few times where talking with the police will help. Most usually revolve around a traffic stop for speeding. I had one such stop. I opened up to speeding (I was). The officer let me of with a warning and guidance where the speed limit sign I missed was at.

Anything more serious than a few miles over, you generally don't want to talk.

catjugglinpimp · 2016-02-12T07:22:07+00:00

may beat the case but you wont beat the ride

[deleted] · 2016-02-12T09:20:04+00:00

Is this relevant for the UK?

SLTechnitian · 2016-02-12T09:25:33+00:00

Always use the shortest possible answer. Never say anything if a question hasn't been asked. Your right to remain silent is your greatest savior, talking is your worst enemy.

TRPhd · 2016-02-12T14:56:49+00:00

"I didn't do anything wrong, but this sounds like it could be serious. I'm not going to say anything until I talk to my lawyer."

And then don't say anything until you talk to your lawyer.

complex0711 · 2016-02-12T17:40:00+00:00

I know i'm going to get drilled for this but i've been talking with my coworker for about 3-4 weeks now…texting back and forth. I post a snap one night with some girls laughing in the background, I'm guessing she got the jealousy pill and started to text me to confirm or piss me off. Anyway, I tell her that she's not that important to me and that she should stop being a little girl (esp after she gave me that whole LJBF speech). So she gets pissed and says she'll cut me if I ever talk to her like that again…obviously she was joking because she even called the next morning and was laughing about it. But, should I just keep things the way they are or cut off communication? She's a HB9…i definitely wanna bang is my only dilemma. RP'er for only 3 months asian persuasion 5'11'', 205, 11% bmi.

[deleted] · 2016-02-12T20:11:52+00:00

The fact of the matter is the pigs have so much stupid crime shit that if you can make it difficult for them to gather enough evidence, they might just say fuck it and move on.

There is an instinct in the human mind to explain themselves, to convince others (especially those in authority) that they are "good".

There is basically no instance in which speaking to the police will help you. Ever. If you are a rat and you want to roll on someone, you do so after your lawyer gets you a deal. Not before (Standard disclaimer rats should die.)

Your charm will not save. Your innocence will not save you. Common sense will not save you. Your silence and a good lawyer might save you.

LyricBaritone · 2016-02-13T17:19:14+00:00

I don't know why you need a 50 minute video to explain something this simple. Straight up - you have nothing to gain from talking to the cops. Lawyer up right away and don't budge an inch.

SComm · 2016-02-15T00:53:51+00:00

The best thing to say (after identifying yourself) when you're being questioned by any type of law enforcement, regardless of what they ask you is "I have nothing to say".

prf_q · 2016-02-17T06:38:27+00:00

I recently went on a quest after watching this video a few days ago and started watching Making a Murderer documentary on Netflix, as I was not really familiar with US justice system and I was quite amazed how things could turn out for you if you talk to the police.

Turns out you don’t even have to show ID to the police at random places such as checkpoints.

More videos I found about police doing illegal checkpoints or them being clueless about the law:

Mythicalflavour · 2016-02-12T02:47:31+00:00

Australian cop here.

Tip #1. Not talking to cops when your accused of a crime is always smart. Most low level crooks are dumb and will talk away and I can just diligently take notes and find out all sorts of details and useful information. Am I out to ruin your life? No, but I am there to enforce the law within reason.

Tip #2. Know your rights, but also know the law's. If I suspect on enough grounds that you've been involved in an arrestable offence. I will arrest you. I will tell you why I'm arresting you. There is no way to talk out of it at that point. I will do my best to make the arrest smoothly without force. However if you resist it will not end well. The more you resist, the more force is allowed to be applied. You now also have further charges like assault police/resist police depending on the level. Keep in mind I don't want to do this. Which brings me to the most important point.

Tip #3. Don't be an asshole. I'm a very reasonable guy, for minor offences I'm more than likely to give you a friendly warning. I have discretion under the law. Even if you have a shitty record, I'll often cut people a break. I deal with the real scum of society at times so, If your a regular citizen and I've stopped you for a non arrestable offence. If you pull some bullshit with me, lie when I've caught you red handed, pull out a phone and start recording me, rather than interacting like a normal human being. Then I'm more than likely to load you up with all the fines under the sun that legally I can give you.

Tip #4. If you get a highway patrol cop. Sucks to be you. Nobody really likes them among cops either.

Feel free to ask questions if you have any.

DancingC0w · 2016-02-12T01:31:50+00:00

Not all cops are like that tho...

Dishevel · 2016-02-11T22:22:37+00:00

Lots of ignorance and BAD advice on this thread. I could tell you that if you try to act like a YouTube lawyer, your interaction with police will not end well.

When it comes to DV, you need to talk. In California, if there is a girl who is willing to lie and accuse you of hitting you and you have no proof of otherwise. Click click, you're gone. It has nothing to do with the officer. It's self preservation, the officer has to make the arrest for liability reasons. You need to be proactive about protecting yourself against crazy women. Record behavior, save texts, etc. Unfortunately, DV is not "innocent until proven guilty."

There are very few positions that have quotas. No such thing as getting paid more for giving tickets or making arrests. Other than looking like a good employee for promotions and movement within an agency.

It's painfully obvious some of you have never interacted with police. You've seen one too many facebook videos on a "bad arrest." Stop perpetuating ignorance and BAD advice.

Tatersalad99 · 2016-02-11T22:23:55+00:00

Such bad advice. Treat cops with humility and respect. They will usually level with you.

libertypole · 2016-02-11T19:00:40+00:00

[deleted]

2016-02-12T07:14:58+00:00

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2016-02-12T11:19:45+00:00

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Eugenics2015 · 2016-02-12T01:37:02+00:00

Posts like this on the front page make this sub look like a rape tacticians headquarters.

thenemaxofredpill · 2016-02-11T18:39:39+00:00

Police get paid by how many arrest/tickets they do for the physical year. Wouldn't it make sense to arrest everyone and ticket everyone if they can?

But then again...I work for an IT company and have a couple police departments as clients and I get paid more for upgrading the size of their servers. So, please....keep talking to the police so they can get more data and need upgrades.

Apexk9 · 2016-02-11T21:29:44+00:00

If you're smart enough talking to the police isn't bad. If you know your rights it's pretty easy to give them nothing just don't be detailed. :-):-)example: the movie night crawler and his discussion with the police in the movie.

Title	Don't Ever Talk To The Police
Author	Clint_Redwood
Upvotes	732
Comments	315
Date	February 11, 2016 4:32 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/459mk1/dont_ever_talk_to_the_police/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/dont-ever-talk-to-the-police.39356 https://theredarchive.com/post/39356

Don't Talk to Police