Summary
50 minute video from a lawyer and police officer of how you conduct yourself with the police
Body
We often talk about different scenarios in regards to the law, but after a quick search on the sidebar, i found this video hasn't been linked here.
I watched this video over 5 years ago and it rings in my head every single time i see a police officer.
This is a mandatory watch for any RP guy. Whether you have you're crazy wife claiming you beat her to the tinder slut you invited over for Netflix and chill and she magically wound up with your knuckle children on her face. Never mind the fact that she text you 20 minutes later saying, "Had fun, we should do it again. ;)"
The polices job is only to gather evidence to convict. They don't give a shit about your problems, how fucking crazy your wife is, how much of an ass that guy was that you ended up knocking out or the fact that it was actually an orgy and you can call 4 of the guy and 2 other girls to confirm your story.
They don't give a fuck, don't talk to them. Their job is to gather evidence, not protect you. Be polite, be respectful, but don't make their job easier.
As a man all the odds are stack against you in this day an age. You are guilt until proven innocent. Don't make it easier on them.
Lessons Learned
Never speak to the police
Edit: I would actually recommend you listen to it multiple times to ensure it is ingrained into your head. It can be very easy to get caught up in the moment and let emotions drive your actions when situations get out of hand. Especially if alcohol is involved. Watching it multiple times ensures you won't forget the information when you need it most.
Edit: Unless i missed it, I also think this should be sidebar material.
Edit: Also, use common sense with these things. If you are smart enough to record conversations and interactions and have clear evidence for your defense, don't be an idiot and sit there silently. If they have no other evidence other than bruises on a girls wrists, guess who's going to jail. Never mind you that she came at you with a knife and you held her down to not get stabbed. (My mother did that to me once actually)
It's should be pointed out though that if you are doing your TPR homework, you should know how to identify crazies and get them out of your life before a situation like this ever even occurs. If cops are at your door because you are dating a crazy bitch, you fucked up long before that day ever happened. Again, AWALT applies, never handle the gun likes it's unloaded, but some girls are higher up on the crazy spectrum than others. Always record any and all information that could protect you in the event that a girl throws you to the wolves.
With that sad, you can still provide evidence in your defense and still choose to use your right to remain silent.
"Officer, I have direct evidence on my phone that proves she's lying."
"That's great, now what exactly happened here?"
"I'll show you the recording"
"We need you get your statements."
"I don't feel comfortable talking to the police without a lawyer, sorry it was drilled into my head since I was a kid. My video/audio will show you exactly what happened."
Criminal Defense attorney here: can confirm.
Unless the cops catch you directly in the act of doing something and have it on camera (and even then) the single best thing you can do to protect yourself down the line is to shut the fuck up.
Don't admit to it and try and reason/weasel your way out, don't pretend to be confused as to what you did or didn't do, and DO NOT try and ingratiate yourself to the cop and appeal to his better nature.
There's a 10% chance that the above methods will work, but a 90% chance that it WILL be used against you down the line.
When a new case hits my desk, the first thing I do is check the police report to figure out if my client said anything stupid to the cops while they were taking him in. If they were smart enough to remain silent, and there is not much other evidence on hand (circumstantial at best) then I know there's a great chance of the case being dismissed altogether.
The police aren't even the core problem, they're just there to figure out if anybody needs to be arrested. They get to make that choice, but once you've been arrested you are IN the system, and the system does not love you, nor does it hate you, but it does view you as fodder for the grinder and it WILL pull you on inexorably to an eventual conviction.
Nobody at any stage of this process cares what happens to you. Not the judge, not the prosecutor, not the police officers, and maybe not even your defense attorney unless you're paying them a LOT. But the advantage you have is that unless you do something to make them care, they are also going to do whatever it takes to not have to deal with you. If you make it hard enough for them to convict you and you don't have any other flags on your case, you CAN get them to ultimately drop the charges. You just have to be disciplined enough to resist all their little incentives designed to get you to plea and demand ALL your rights (speedy trial is a big one, but right to silence and right to an attorney are crucial too) so that they have to work to get you.
And lets say you DO get caught and plea guilty to the charge to avoid the hassle of fighting. You are now even MORE fucked because the next time you get brought in for something, whether you did it or not, you've lost any 'benefit of the doubt' that may have existed in your favor.
See what I'm saying?
When interacting with a cop staying silent means:
Not giving up any information that might convict you
Not pissing them off intentionally or accidentally (as long as you comply with their other legal requests).
Not waiving any of your rights
Making it clear that you won't be bullied or cajoled into a plea
As soon as you open your yap and say something you run the risk of making a statement that you CANNOT take back that will destroy any chance of a victory at the outset. That risk is NOT worth taking, and my job as a defense attorney is much easier when they can't bring up a recorded confession.
All of this will not even guarantee that the system won't fuck you (especially if you're black, sad to say), but at least you will no longer be complicit in your own fucking.
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I think a good thing to also do is leaving your GPS tracker enabled on your mobile throughout the day/activity if you can just in case you need to prove location at a certain time.
P.S. it's only a matter of time for this page to be attacked and x-posted entirely based off the title.
I can see the post on bluepill now, "Rapists taking about how to get away with rape"
They'd benefit from this advice.
I imagine a lot of BPers might talk to the cops because they want to show how genuine/nice/innocent they are.
They do and they will.
And they'll give anybody up while they're at it.
Oh, how easy it would be for a cop to turn a "nice guy's" tales of chivalry into a stalking manifesto for the DA.
This is absolutely the case. Trying to be helpful by explaining "exactly what was happening" is the WORST thing you can do. I've done it before and, guess what, you don't exactly score points with cops.
Did that once in my beta years, couldn't be more stupid...
Yea, just wait till their trying to show bubba how nice and innocent they are when their ass is being auctioned off for smokes
The advantages of leaving GPS turned on far outweighs the paranoid disadvantages. The truth is that you can be tracked from the towers anyways. So just leave it on. Good advice.
How do you get the gps data though? Is it saved somewhere?
Yeah, google it. It's on your phone.
Many people say, "I want to speak with my lawyer". I dont have a lawyer, how would I get one If i dont have one?? Is a public defender considered representation until I can find private representation? Since police are allowed to lie to you how am i suppose to know the person walking into the room is a lawyer and not some sleaky police officer trying to get me to talk?
The judge would have a field day with this. I've never seen it done though.
Because it doesn't work like you see on tv. Your public defender won't walk into a dimly lit "interrogation" room and order the police to leave with some witty remark. You'll see your lawyer a few days later. If you can't post bail, you'll probably sit in jail while you wait to see your lawyer. He won't get you out of jail either. If you aren't posting bail, only the judge can let you go unless the jail is too full or something.
Police will not continue to question you after you invoke your Miranda rights. They stop immediately. If they don't stop, they're burning their case against you.
Absolutely nothing you see on tv about being questioned by police or detectives is even remotely accurate.
Source: I have been arrested dozens of times and questioned. Looooong time ago in my past.
That's why you shut the fuck up. Name/identity and initial cooperation. When you go before the judge, confirm you identity politely, and ask for an attorney. "I want legal counsel, your honor." But always polite and humble. Judges will punish you for being an ass. Again, judges will punish you for being an ass.
He'd be in the cell next to you, until you walk out the door after the judge dismisses your case with prejudice, and then you file your civil suit. Considering it's a 5th Amendment violation, his offense would be a federal one... no cop buddies could protect him once the US Attorney gets word of it.
http://answers.uslegal.com/courts/attorneys/16625/
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111221221552AAshcG2
The most important thing to take from the miranda rights is that "anything you say or do can and will used against you in a court of law" but not in support of you. Talking your way out isn't going to happen.
Bumper sticker:
You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you by the woman you love.
The goal of every traffic stop is to escalate to an arrest. They want a reason to arrest you, because it is the cops who make the most arrests that get promoted. So long as they think they will get away without some kind of negative consequences for theirself.
Obvious conflict of interest. They are criminals, representing a criminal corporation.
Can confirm. Got fucked hard. They're out to get everyone and everything they can.
They are criminals representing a criminal corporation. The sooner people realize this the sooner we can restrain their unlawful use of power
Good advice, but what about before being arrested? Let's say they stop and you ask something like "what are you doing in this area?". If you are doing something shady, is there any advantage to lying? If you suddenly become a defense attorney just being asked what you are doing, won't that cause them to want to dig deeper?
What right do they have to an answer? Of what you're doing there? You don't need to say shit. If it's private property and they instruct you to leave, you leave. If not shut. The. Fuck. Up
Don't answer any questions.
Cop: What are you doing in this area?
You: Good evening officer, is there something I can help you with?
Cop: Why are you in the area?
You: Officer am I free to leave now?
Cop: After you answer my question, why are you in the area?
You: Officer unless you suspect me of a crime I would like to leave, am I free to go now?
And just keep bringing the conversation back around to getting them to tell you if you are being detained or if you are free to go. Be polite, be firm and don't give in to their shit testing.
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The problem is I always feel they will beat your ass. I'm not colored but damn I just don't trust them to take your words like that. I once dealt with some shit at a park. I got told to gtfo out of my car. They were looking for drugs. I didn't have shit and I told them I don't have any. The guy said they all say that. I was answering his questions and obeying his directions and sat on the curb. The guy then told to me to get lost. My bp-self apologized for having caused a disruption to their day. Ughh. But I didn't feel like pulling a saul goodman was the right thing to do at that moment. It just didn't feel right. Now I probably would think twice but I still don't trust cops.
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A simple, "I don't answer questions" will also suffice. If they ask you why, respond again with "i don't answer questions."
This falls into the "targeted questioning" the defense lawyer mentions in the first comment. I used to cold call for a living, and if they said anything but a straight no... It was over.
I was sure as fuck more ready for the convo than they were.
Yep, nothing more a cop loves than running into an internet lawyer. Cops interpret this type of yammer as one of their many definitions of aggression.
Unless the cop is a perpetual hardon or is specifically gunning for you, short, polite, but non-incriminating answers will get you out of many more jams than turning into Saul Goodman.
Nah, come on dude, what about the autistic script?
Being too deep on the autism spectrum is probably the only thing more dangerous than being black when one is facing a cop. A black autistic should probably just stay in the house for his own safety.
Because that won't catch their ire at all. And it simply doesn't work. You can't play it like this with cops. You spin 'em just like your plates. You don't tell them where you're going or where you're headed, where you work or how much you get paid. You say "I'm getting some fresh air" or answer their questions with questions or similar fluff because ultimately you don't care and don't care to let their hamsters spin so hard.
Just getting some fresh air.
Would a so-called "pressure flip" work in this situation?
| Is there something wrong with the air outside?
It doesn't matter if they get mad at you. They will never any nicer to you than they are at that exact second. Once you are in their sights, the only thing that you can do is protect yourself and not make it any worse, and anything you say will make it worse.
A policeman's script is like a flow chart. For every answer you give there are about 3-6 questions he will give back. Shut the fuck up when it comes to cops. There is nothing to gain.
Spinning a cop's hamster is a good way to end up trying to pick a bullet out of your eye.
You are getting downvoted, but you actually make sense. Too many poster here writing as if they were the star of their own telefilm. I agree with the core message of the post - but, while the system does not care, it is not made out of people who just want to screw you either. Refusing to talk at all will immediately give a bad impression. I understand the need to stay silent if you have just been oarrested, but otherwise - like, in a random stop on the road - say the truth "i am doing activity X". 99.9% that will be the end of it, if they dont have any reason to search you or your car.
He's getting downvoted because most cops aren't female. Hamsters work differently.
You are one of those annoying fucks. Be a decent normal person and you will have no problems. "What are you doing in this area?" "Just going for a walk officer I wanted to clear my head a bit" doesn't matter if it's true, and gives the impression you want to be left alone.
But instead you want to act like a twat, and then get mad when they find a reason to fuck with you after you were a cunt. Trust me between city ordinances, state, and federal laws you are probably doing something wrong.
You did not watch the video.
The video does not contain a single encounter with a single law enforcement officer.
I wasn't replying to the video I was replying to his comment.
The problem is that people like you allow cops to persecute people for ... Exercising their constitutional rights
Nothing good will ever come of punishing people for that.
The problem is people like you being a complete and total cunt to another human being simply because he wears a badge. Being a complete and total cunt because there's someone out there risking his life to keep you and the people around you safe. Oh but you'd rather flex your constitutional muscles and end up arrested/ticketed for some petty rule that you didn't even know was a rule.
Popo: What are you doing in this area?
You: Why, is it illegal for me to be here or something? Or: You: Nothin, just hangin out, wanna chill?
"I took the wrong exit. im not from around here..my phone died so I have no GPS, and im lost as fuck, which way to the freeway breh?"
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"Officer pls, do you know how a gps works? It audibly tells me which turns to take. I don't have to look at it or even hold it."
"Not breaking any laws... no bully pls."
Seriously, watch the fucking video in the original post. Just go and watch it. Do yourself a favor.
Mister lawyer in the video brings up cases where people were convicted on statements like that THAT WERE TRUE.
Please watch the video.
"If you are doing something shady."
Yeah, well, that's an entirely different kettle of fish, isn't it?
OP's advice was directed towards guys that are being falsely accused by a hamstering female, not guys who are trying to cover up criminal activity.
In that case, if you are doing something wrong, and the cops intuits it, good luck, because they have ZERO problem bootstrapping probable cause out of belly button lint.
What's that old adage? "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride"
True, but even if you are doing something illegal you NEVER incriminate yourself by saying anything. Never help the police, they don't give a shit about you, all they care about is if they can lock you in a jail cell. If you make it easier for them by being truthful or foregoing your rights they are going to arrest you regardless so the less you give them the easier time a lawyer will have getting your charges dismissed because of the unconstitutional methods police will have to resort to.
Okay, but in the scenario provided by the commenter:
Popo: What are you doing in this area? Dude: Going for a walk. Dude: Going to the 7/11.
versus.
Popo: What are you doing in this area? Dude: I'm not saying anything without a lawyer. Dude: Are you detaining me? Am I free to go?
The first response may get you off the hook; the second could insure that you'll get searched, taken to the station, punched in the face, etc. Especially if you don't have white skin.
The key is, don't volunteer information that easily be proven false and volunteer information that is innocuous as possible. In certain situations.
Now, if you're being accused of a crime and interrogated, say nothing and ask for a lawyer.
Have you watched the video in OP?
If I recall (I watched it two years ago) there was an example where a potential suspect was asked a question similar to this and incriminated them-self by answering just like that. Turned out there was a crime near the area they were going to/leaving. If they'd not have answered, they would not have admitted to being in the area of the crime.
To be fair between city ordinances, state, and federal law you are almost always doing something wrong.
But almost never doing something that warrant arrest. Come on, lets be honest...
But would you rather be a decent person and just say "I'm just out for a walk" or stand there silently while a ticket is written out then having to subsequently pay that fine? I mean be real. A cop asks you "what are you doing out here" just say something like you're clearing your head. I can say from experience if a police officer asks you that it's not usually with malicious intent. There was a time I wanted to be a police officer and I went on multiple ride alongs, and every officer said the same thing. If they see a guy in a bad part of town they'll ask him what he's doing. They do it not because they suspect you're doing something wrong, but because it gives them a chance to be proactively helpful if someone is just lost because a lot of people don't want to admit they're lost. I still remember on one of the ride alongs I went on a guy said he was lost, and the officer gave him a ride to where he was headed (it was only 3 blocks away but it was snowing pretty bad and there was nothing going on.) You have to remember just because he wears a badge doesn't mean he's out to get you. In fact it usually means the opposite, and while there will always be the occasional bad person that doesn't make them all bad.
I'm a white kid who looks like he comes from a good family. I've talked my way out of numerous situations by bullshitting.
I also usually have Retired Law Enforcement on my car from my dad.
If you're out walking that's what you're doing in the area. Taking a walk on public property is still legal, mostly. If you're driving late at night in the "wrong" part of town you've got a headache and pulled off the highway to get some Tylenol. In the back seat of a stolen car with an eightball and a prostitute of uncertain gender? You're on your own there bub.
As it's been said before, if they didn't see you do anything you didn't do anything. If you're up to something, have your story ready to go. If you're not a good actor, practice telling your story 'til it feels natural like Mr. Orange in Reservoir Dogs. Just remember to keep it short, simple, and plausible.
Watch the video in the link provided by the OP, then watch it again.
That comment is borderline concern trolling.
Nice try but I live in Manitowoc County.
Agree to all of this as a lawyer myself. Always be cool, respectful to police. And always reply "I'm just not comfortable talking about this without having legal counsel present to advise me." If you get arrested, zip it. Name, address, identity, and shut the fuck up.
When does this not apply?
I've had multiple run-ins with the police for minor infractions (e.g. trespassing, public disorderly, drinking in public, etc.). Every time, I've been open and honest with them, even admitting my guilt. I just politely answer their questions.
This may sound like an idiotic approach, but I've been let off every time with a warning and they never give me a hard time. Multiple times, other people involved in these situations with me have gotten tickets or in even greater trouble for being mouthy or difficult. I've had a police officer let me off for "being honest" while ticketing a friend who was doing the exact same thing I did.
Would I use this approach if I'm being accused of domestic abuse or something serious like that? No, obviously not. But it seems like refusing to answer questions would be a sure-fire way to make some situations even worse.
Like, if you're trespassing on public property and the police catch you, is it really advised that you refuse to answer their questions and ask for an attorney? Won't they just flat-out arrest you for antagonizing them?
Im white. Ive done this loads of times and the po po have just let me go.Would not recommend if non -white
Pretty sure it is not skin color.
I am thinking that cops treat a guy like Dr Ben Carson pretty much the same regardless of skin color.
On the other hand. If you dress like a thug do not be crying about getting treated like you are one.
Exactly. You might not be a thug, but you sure are wearing a thug's uniform!
*Stolen and slightly modified from my favorite comedian, Dave Chappelle.
The real thugs uniform comes with a badge and extra rights
Took it from his hoe statement.. Remember it.. kinda true
http://i.imgur.com/bjXST.jpg
Louis C.K. - Being White
Do you have experience doing this while non-white?
Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!
Got off of a speeding ticket, 70 in a 55, by pulling over before the cop could even turn his lights on. He did a Uturn and pulled up, asked me what I was doing pulled over and I said I didn't want him to have to chase me down. He was just like slow it down and let me go, turned back around to go on his way. It was pretty sweet. I'm also white and in a brand new vehicle.
see! life is easy! just be born white, tall, and rich! i don't get why people don't understand this!
Got pulled over for 75 in a 55, the whole time I squirmed in my seat. The cop asked me what I was doing, I told him I have IBS and I was trying to get to the next gas station before I shit my pants. He told me to slow down, but let me go.
did the exact same thing in the exact same situation and the guy went ballistic "WHY THE HELL DID YOU PULL OVER TO THE SIDE BEFORE I PULLED YOU OVER YOU ARE CAUSING DANGER TO THE OTHER DRIVERS" blah blah blah and gave me the full value ticket
Sounds like a similar situation I happened upon. Was in uniform heading to the military base to out-process from the military in my modded out Camaro. Loud exhaust, spoiler, aftermarket lights, tint job, rims, etc. Go up over a hill with the sun in my eyes, going too fast and pass a cop. Notice I'm about 15 over. See his lights click on so I immediately pull over. He comes up "Sweet ride man! License and Registration please". Hand him my documents, act cordial and make some small talk as he asks me about my mods. "Well I caught you going over pretty far on the speed limit. I'll let you off easy though with a 'loud exhaust' ticket. Costs next to nothing and won't give you any points on your license. Try to keep this beast under the limit."
Ended up running me like 50 bucks, a godsend compared to the 200+ I could've forked for speeding.
Certain times, I think it's best to be honest. But I can see how in certain situations, it'd be best to remain silent.
Sound like you got a purdy lil mouth, boy
Can also verify this type of phenomenon.
e.g. Was walking across the street from the overflow parking lot to my college (important note: Jaywalking all of 2 meters from the designated crosswalk) having seen, and in clear sight of a police car about to head in exactly my direction.
I cross, he woop-woops, I stop and say "Good morning officer, how are you?", he says "Don't tell me you didn't see me there."
I say "I saw you. But me and my girlfriend were making sure that we crossed without endangering ourselves or anyone else." <protip: this was true, and he saw it and knew it. Now that I think about it, his dashcam might've recorded that...>
He says "Don't do it again." and goes on his merry way.
That type of situation seems like, if I'd gone the route of "I'm not answering any questions without a lawyer present." Id've fucked myself over.
Now, if I'd asked "Am I under arrest?" the outcome seems more uncertain. I'm not sure how that input correlates to what output in that circumstance.
I guess what I'm getting at is that there are times and places where purposefully invoking your right to silence is called for and appropriate, and there are other times when less is more (meaning less invoking your rights and a little tiny bit of courtesy and human decency.)
But you can always, ALWAYS refer to them by their title, rather than without any reference at all. It's much more in our favor to say "with all due respect, officer, I have the right to remain silent." rather than "I don't answer questions." If it helps, look at it as a way to give them the veneer of respect while maintaining your own respect of your rights.
Congrats! You're in the 10%.
If you get caught on a minor infraction and you don't want to make yourself look suspicious, answer their direct questions, but don't feel the need to fall over yourself explaining your actions.
The cops are looking for a reason to arrest you. Trespassing on public land isn't enough (unless you look suspicious, then it's fair game bro) to be worth the hassle, but your mouth can only get you in trouble.
Decent enough advice, but pretty next-level advice for many people. If you're not a good judge of character, situations, and attitudes it's probably not the best approach.
When you've actually committed a crime and there may be evidence against you. Whenever I see this topic come up, it is either directly from defense attorneys or features them chiming in, loudly, in agreement. Of course these people want an easier time defending their clients, but remember that their experience is in dealing with people who have already been arrested, meaning they already fucked up somehow. If you don't have the general appearance of a criminal, and trust cops, they will likely reciprocate in the scenarios you describe.
There's no reason to scare people who don't actually go around committing serious crimes into burning their trust with the police. On the incredibly rare chance that you get arrested for a crime you didn't do, by all means, shut the fuck up and ask for a lawyer. But this is not the experience of most people, especially if you are educated, middle-class and white.
Attorney myself but I don't do criminal law, I always just tell people when they ask what to do to ask if they're free to go and if not ask for a lawyer and proceed end the conversation. I actually have two questions for you because I myself am not sure of the answer. Are you required to show a cop your identification if he asks for it? Also during a traffic stop are you required to step out of the car should the cop direct you to?
/u/yaysmr - perhaps you can speak to this better than I. While remaining silent is great, it won't stop the police from badgering you. They will ask and ask and ask in an attempt to drive you to speak.
You must be explicit and unambiguous when invoking you rights. "I'm not answering any questions" won't cut it.
"Officer, I understand you that this is serious and I want to cooperate with your investigation BUT I want my attorney present before answering any further questions about this situation." Full stop and shut up.
If the officer continues to ask questions, the only reply should be "Officer, I've invoked my right to an attorney and to remain silent."
Refusing to 'cooperate' by remaining silent or not consenting to searches WILL piss them off intentionally and they will make sure to show you who has the power. It's a catch-22.
And I would much, MUCH rather get to suppress all the evidence found during an unlawful search than have to go to trial and deal with all the evidence they collected because your dumb ass consented to the search.
Again, NOT saying anything means you DON'T waive any of your rights.
The law is clear on at least one point: choosing to remain silent CANNOT be used against you. Your lawyer can work miracles as long as you didn't consent to the Police searching shit.
call me paranoid, but what about refusing a search (even though you know the car is clean) and then the cop magically finding drugs that he planted as payback for not respecting his authority? He'll get probable cause for the search by stepping on the drug dogs tail to get him to 'indicate'.
This what scares me. The last time I got pulled over they asked to search my car, and knowing it was lily white, I let them. I'd have loved to have told them to go pound sand, but I'm scared shitless that they would plant something.
In my experience this depends on your age. As a 30 year old man you're probably right. But as a 16-18 year old kid it's possible to talk your way out of it/talk it down. When I was 16 I should have been arrested for assault, but I played it like I was just a good kid put in a bad situation. I beat the living fuck out of the kid, and when I was first cuffed the officer told me it was assault. It was in school though, and I was stuck in the office with them until a squad car came to the school (there were only 2 there that day so neither could leave the school) and I talked it down and got them to charge me with disorderly conduct which I was then able to talk the ADA into dropping the charges entirely.
Later the same thing happened again and I talked it down to 6 months probation, then it happened again and I spent a couple months in jail on the weekends. (I still had decent grades and was on track to graduate and the judge didn't want to "needlessly ruin my life")
My point is that if you're charming and young talking isn't always the worst thing to do, and in fact can be good. You have to be very charming though, and a very good liar.
Whenever this comes up on an international forum, I feel obligated to point out to my UK guys that silence can be a very bad idea under arrest in this country.
Courts can (and will) use your silence against you here - much better to just deny direct accusations with a simple "no" and probing questions with "I don't recall" or "I'm not sure", as appropriate. Saying nothing can be used as a sign of guilt here, sadly.
Same in Australia, would be interesting to see what a lawyer here has to say on the matter.
My solicitor has told me to say '' yeah sure I can answer all your questions about these matters BUT first Ill need to get some legal advice so Ill be giving you a no comment statement today '' and under no circumstances engage in chit chat with the cops .
I got dragged through court on a bullshit charge. My Barrister told me to say "My lawyer has advised me to not answer any questions without him present." This is in the interview/statement stage. They rang me up and told me they where coming around to "have a chat". Bit of chit chat, then he cautioned me, And the cop just went on at me, saying it would be easier if I just told him what happened... "Sorry, I don't want to answer this without speaking to my Solicitor."
Then what happens, the Police department refers the case to the DPP, and ARE NO LONGER INVOLVED, bar giving statements at your hearing. The DPP then decide to prosecute or not and it is only then when you are charged and summonsed.
Don't say shit to 5-0 brother. It will come back to haunt you.
Really? We got out ideals from blackstone, a brit, and his common law.
That's bullshit though, that's important. Especially since they can trick you into saying shit, i should absolutely be allowed to just be quiet. Prove I did it (brooklyn accent)
I know, it's something not many people know about. The exact wording of an arrest caution is this - "You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence"
Basically, you need to have a line of defence lined up before you're even arrested. Because if your arresting officer asks you something pertinent and you stay silent, then you can guarantee that no matter how brilliant your defence is in court, you'll be hearing "well why didn't you mention that to officer fucknuts at the scene of the crime? how very suspicious".
The tactic I think works well to deflect this bullshit is to say something like "sorry officer, I'm a bit too shaken at the moment to think straight". I don't think any jury would see that as particularly evasive.
That's still bullshit.
In the US you can shut up and formulate your bullshit later. As it should be. How suspicious? Fuck you I didn't wanna mispeak and let this idiot misquote me and get evidence against me. The Canadian courts are bullshit.
Thank god I watched this years ago. Got arrested, awkwardly stayed literally silent under questioning. Got a lawyer, turns out they botched the case. Caught a lesser charge. 10 days in jail and $5k is instead 8 hours highway cleanup and $1k.
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Oh it was my favorite part of an otherwise awful experience
My old passion as a younger man was riding motorcycles either dirt bikes in areas which were illegal or street racing on road racing type bikes. As a result I've dealt with the police before (more than once) and here is my advice.
Don't obsess on your own emotions.
What the policeman wants is his day to go easy for him. He sees all kinds of stress all day long and frankly he is tired of it most of the time. He really is just doing his job because he needs the paycheck and likely couldn't think of an alternative profession to get into other than being a cop.
So just make things go smoothly.
Lower your emotional tone.
If he responds to light humor do that.
Do not go on an emotional rant about the unfairness of him doing his job.
Don't give away information, but don't appear too punk like either.
This is way better advice than Reddit's usual look-I'm-a-douchebag script about "Am I being detained?"
Assuming you're not massively guilty, there's no reason not to ask the officer how his day is going, be polite, and let things blow over. Don't answer questions about the topic at hand, but there's no reason to be a dick. It's possible to be courteous even as you decline to answer questions and ask for a lawyer.
Some guys cannot remain calm, so once they start talking they get nervous and start lying about everything. It's hilarious. If you just stick to the basic questions like:
Is this your name on your drivers license?
Are you still living at this address?
Do you have your insurance with you?
...it's the next question that people screw up on:
...this is where you just don't need to answer. Let them tell you how fast their radar registered you as going.
Sometimes they actually don't know your actual speed. Their radar wasn't on at the time but they see you speeding anyway and are looking for a confession.
Just never say things that are lies, but say (basic) things that are true and omit the rest.
It's like the game of "Simon Says":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Says
I rarely get tickets, both because I have hypervigilance and see then before they can get an accurate clocking, and because I try to put them at ease without admitting to things. I was pulled over a few nights ago for not signaling a lane change. He asked why I didn't signal, I said I forgot. It's obvious I didn't signal, but I was polite and honest with questions that don't matter, like where I was coming from.
However, I have a get out of jail free card. Around here military veterans are treated differently than most, they get to know us, they know we aren't idiots, we have a respect afforded us that the flat brim wearing inked kid driving a fart can and cheese grater wing Honda doesn't get. So just being polite is enough to get out of tickets. It's on my license plate, so it works in most states. The hard ass cops just over the county line from where I live catch me going a little too fast and just stick their hand out the window and motion for me to slow down. Most other people get pulled over for 5mph over, I don't. They know me, so they give me some leeway.
If it's something big and very illegal, I am polite but barely say anything, until I get a lawyer. Made that mistake only one time, and I paid for it with jail for shit I didn't do.
steps out of my hatch-back civic and folds arms and poses in a KC hat
Then you realize 14 second quarter mile times aren't fast...
I was about 17 years old riding shotgun in my Marine friend's car, completely shitfaced on plastic bottle vodka. I needed to get across town and he claimed to be completely sober. About 10 minutes into the ride, he straight up blows through a red light, right past an obvious crown vic police car. It's about this time that my friend informs me he's had about eight beers. I silently panic. My $15 half gallon (much less than that by now) of vodka is on the floor behind me. The crown vic lights us up, my friend pulls over, and smokey comes to the driver's window. All he says is "License and registration," locks his eyes on the bottle, then he started sniffing near my friend in an exaggerated way. I felt like I was about to have a mental breakdown. My friend hands him all the paperwork, the cops walks away, and then comes back a few minutes later to say "Have a good day and drive safe, Mr. Srehtamllahsram's friend!"
Also be White. I can't stress this one enough. Your interactions will go far smoother if you are white. Do yourself a huge favor and chose the White option on the start menu, even though you will occasionally suffer a sun burn penalty.
what variation tough? Germanic, Slavic, Romanic?
Slavic is working well for me.
What's the penalty for choosing Slavic? Being confused for being jewish?
All of this
Having the urge to squat while wearing track suits
This is the good part.
The bad part is when the cop doesn't listen, but, has his own agenda, and you are in his sights. If he deliberately misquotes you, or, is a dumbass and accidentally misquotes you. Or, if he lies.
Use light humor? Prick cop will think you are a smart ass or a wiseguy, and give you more shit. YOU cannot make things go smoothly. It is the cop who controls it while you are within his reach. If he is a dick, it will not go smoothly. If he is cool, it will go smoothly. If he is a dick, and acts cool, and you spill your guts, it will go badly.
Best choice: do NOT talk to cops. Trust me.
The number one thing is to make the job he has to do run smoothly.
Anything that inhibits that free flow of him completing his job will work against you, but you don't have to confess anything and aren't expected to... they will just try it and see if you fall for it.
You assume all cops are pricks and act accordingly. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. In my experience, most cops are reasonable people who prefer dealing with other reasonable people instead of people who automatically act defensive and hostile.
You know what is an even better red pill skill than "refusing to talk to the police"? Being able to read people, diagnose the situation you're in, and act accordingly in order to get the best outcome.
In MY experience, most cops are reasonable people, yada yada... That, however, doesn't attenuate the fucking over that the pricks can and will give you.It just takes one for you to understand that 'reading people, diagnosing the situation you're in, ..." ain't the magic pill that you act as if it is. Have you ever been bullied by an errant cop? It's like getting bitch slapped on the playground. Yes, one should grow out of it, but, here's a human being, such as yourself, treating you like some half a fag, and you, by LAW, cannot do the same thing to him, or, he will, BY LAW, handcuff you and throw you into the back of his car, drive you to where he wants, and put you into a box. Nobody there will give a fuck about, and, after you have been there long enough, or, if you pay them money, will let you go. Or, they will put you in a bigger box, and take your home away. Then, they will tell everybody who can hire you that you are a bad person.
Where do you get 'defensive and hostile'? Who said act hostile? You've already bought into the narrative that not spilling your guts to the police makes you some enemy of the state.
Nobody says be 'hostile'. If a man with a gun, bullets, a taser, handcuffs, bullets, pepper starts using 'command presence' on you, YES, even you will become defensive.
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If a cop pulls you over for traffic reasons, just be cool and respectful with him. I drive a modified car (not a faggot fwd honda) and get pulled over about once a month and I rarely get tickets. Don't be stern and say "I don't talk to police" because it annoys them and they really don't care what videos you watched and how much of an "expert" in law you are. If they pulled you over for a legitimate infraction (speeding, not stopping fully at a stop sign), it's their discretion whether they give you a ticket or not. And if you talk to them like they are human and are calm, cool, and respectful, many will let you go (especially if you make them laugh). For minor traffic infractions, you can even admit you did what they stopped you for and get off easily (for victimless stuff) - cops get annoyed with people who lie about dumb shit (everyone does!) like saying they were really going 35 when they were obviously going 50 and clearly tagged by a cop on radar. Just be cool with cops and treat them with respect.
Now, say a cop comes to your door wanting to ask you a few questions - that's when you say you are "not going to answer questions". Do NOT say you "don't talk to the police" - that is divisive language that highlights a difference between the two of you.
Treat law enforcement with respect, and your interactions with them will be 200% more pleasant.
Also, don't get involved in shady shit, but if you do, remember the #1 rule is DON'T GET CAUGHT.
Following your advice will still get you fined or prosecuted. The police officers will be friendly and non-hostile towards you, but they will still write the ticket and pass you on to the legal system and be grateful that they stopped such an easy prey.
But what good does it do for you?
I get out of most tickets. That's the good it does me.
This is true.
The officer usually has some flexibility. So if he sees you doing 80 in a 35 zone (which is the crazy stuff I used to do... literally) and you calm things down the cop might give you a 45 mph ticket.
If you get all into your Civil Rights he will be pissed off at your not recognizing his authority and push the maximum ticket and possibly give you additional tickets too.
Always de-escalate the situation... calm everyone down.
Question: How many tickets? I mean I'm 54 years old and I have only been pulled over maybe 5 or 6 times in my life.
The trick to not getting a ticket is not pulled over; the trick to not getting pulled over is to not break any traffic laws.
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A traffic infraction is not going to spiral into being in jail unless you're an idiot or you have shit in your car. I'm sure your clients "dindu nuffin" and that it can happen to "anyone" but what I wrote comes from experience. If a cop is chill with you and said he pulled you over for something minor (victimless thing everyone does or vehicle violation) and you say "oh okay, I understand" and talk to them like they are people, you can get off easily. Being a sperglord and saying "I DON'T TALK TO PO-LEEZ! :(((((" when they pulled you over for going 40 in an 35 is just retarded and annoying to them. Be a likeable person, and they'll let you off. Be a likeable person, and they'll give you a smaller infraction if you did something really dumb like going 80 in a 35. I've gotten out of at least 10 tickets in the past 2 years.
Sounds too rehearsed.
Just listen to the officers questions. If he asks you a question and you don't want to answer just calmly say "I won't answer that".
The point is to lower the emotional tone.
If you start sounding like junior defense attorney he will see through that and see you as a total punk smartass.
Don't be the punk smartass.
They are looking for self control... if you freak out in any way you've made things worse.
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Agreed.
If its rehearsed, the cop is going to say shit - its one of those guys - and immediately realize that the guy he's interviewing isnt going to give him any easy info. It also puts him on the defensive as he then will have to explain why he's detaining you without any help from what you said.
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If you know you are emotional and not too bright then say nothing.
My stepfather was a lawyer and I've spent so many hours understanding the thinking of this prosecutorial mindset that I'm able to deal with it effectively.
Machiavelli says to be the Lion and the Fox.
The Lion gets you in trouble... the Fox is your way to minimize the damage.
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Exactly I remember being in a situation with cops of just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. One of the guys we were with started talking like this and the cops treated him considerably worse than the rest of us. We all got to go but him and the actual guilty parties had to stay.
The police are paid to gain power over the situation.
Give them the power to do their job, but don't give anything that works against your self interests.
The problem is that most people can't clearly understand these boundries and screw up.
Most criminals are really stupid. If you were a smart criminal you would be the mayor or the president.
The average convicted rapist in jail has an IQ around 50. (this is true as far as I've read, but don't know the reference now)
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You're under the assumption we were sitting on a curb where I never said that at all. We were arrested and in jail.
Very succinct digest of the best overall advice I've seen in this thread so far. In most cases, it's all about having the right attitude for the situation.
Hell, my biggest problem with random cop encounters is that I'm usually too calm for the really jittery/walking hard-on types. Not being nervous seems to make them nervous back or try to escalate their own aggression.
Yeah you don't want to appear indifferent to their authority.
The best mental state is one that says you will help the police do their job right up to the point where it crosses into things that negatively effect your interests. The police know when they press their advantage to capture a confession and when you call them on their Game they have outcome independence about it.
When it comes to domestic issues,if the cops are at your door and a woman's in distress and holding you responsible there won't be any negotiation. The only options you'll have will be which side of the cruiser to sit on as you're going downtown on a DV arrest.
Always express non consent. Whether searching seizure or arrest. Always demand a warrant. And always demand to speak to a supervisor before exiting your vehicle or your home.
Check out Eddie Craig, he has some good content on YouTube.
What do you say to the supervisor should they arrive? Nothing? Just curious.
You calmly invoke your rights, and then start asking them questions. Get them talking, challenge their assumptions. It really depends on why you were stopped and how far you're willing to go to preserve your rights. And how well you can effectively assert your rights.
This is a criminal enterprise we're dealing with, and they can often unlawfully arrest you and get away with it. But if we don't resist the police state, things will only get worse.
Often the "right" thing to do when dealing with the cops will get you arrested, and the wrong thing they will let you go. It's a way of conditioning the People to willingly give way away their rights.
I'd like to hear the attorneys here chime in on this. I think if they ask you to get out of the car you need to get out. Not sure about the house.
If a cop comes to your house unanounced, without a warrant, and knocks on your door, open it, stay on your porch, do not let the officer even one foot into your home (this was seriously used once in a case, and the police won), and under no circumstances should you let the conversation go anywhere.
They can and will enter your house if they have any reasonable suspicion to do so (this voids getting a warrant beforehand), from claiming to hear a scream or muffled voice, to claiming to smell burning and foul smells, etc. Simply ask why they're there, ask if they have a warrant, and if they don't, tell them to get a warrant.
While others say to not talk to cops at all, the police might not be there to arrest you - they might be there because your mother was hurt and is in the hospital. You don't want them to suspect you're up to something, or they'll find a way to make an excuse.
The only time a police officer can enter a home without a warrant is if they're in pursuit of a suspect who just entered. In that case, they still need to apply for a warrant after-the-fact, and the regulations are much harder to prove in front of a judge.
Finally, if they do have a valid warrant (which you should ask to see before letting them in), make sure they're only following the warrant. If they're looking for a stolen piece of furniture, make sure they're only looking for things of a similar size. You don't want them to find a reason to search the entirety of your house if they were only approved to search one piece. If they suspect there's a grow-op in the basement, make sure they're only checking the basement.
You need to say something like, "I don't consent to being searched." Ask them for what reason they are REQUESTING that you exit your vehicle. Only roll 1 window down at a time, and only a few inches, so that you can hear each other.
If they get aggressive of verbally combatitive, you need to express that you perceive their behavior as such, and express a concern for your own safety. And demand the presence of a supervisor.
Of course, you have to record everything, and make sure to stream it live to the Internet to protect yourself.
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If they are threatening to punish you merely for exercising your rights, then it is an unlawful order. If they are trying to remove you from your vehicle, illegally search you, or detain without specific articulable probable cause, then it is unlawful, and you can demand the presence of a supervisor. It's in their own best interest to comply, as long as you are not endangering anyone, or in progress committing a crime.
I don't know about what theis corporate codes state, but it is part of their internal procedure
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I can demand anything I damn well please. Whether I get it or not is a different question. I have first hand knowledge that you are likely to get a supervisor if you demand it.
You are so fucking brainwashed you can't comprehend that the cops are the lowest the level public SERVANTS and TRUSTEES of a CORPORATION. The People are BENEFICIARIES. It is the criminal violation of the rights of People, by individual SERVANTS, which puts People in jail. Not the demand for basic rights.
Probably you would blame Rosa Parks MLK for putting themselves in jail by daring to demand basic human rights.
It's easy to believe everything you've been told. What's hard is thinking for yourself, and standing up for liberty amongst arrogant ignorant automatons like yourself.
Pro tips to go to jail for something stupid or to get a ticket.
You should be ashamed. Pro tips to go to jail are basic exercise of your rights like not consenting to search, and requesting a supervisor.
Worthless POS like you are the reason why people hate cops.
Go online and see how many videos end amazingly for a person who refuses to get out of a vehicle. The Supreme Court has already ruled in Pennsylvania v Mimms that on a traffic stop, an officer can order a driver from a vehicle for officer safety purposes. So go nuts and listen to your own advice if you want to get a quick ticket/trip to jail. Won't bother me.
I recommend re-watching it every 6-18 months afterwards as well.
tldr; odds are any key evidence or 'evidence' police aquire is from talking to YOU.
I found this video a few years back myself. I think it's incredibly important for everyone to understand. I'm a paralegal and can't give legal advice, but let me tell you...the law is NOT on your side. Please watch this video and take it to heart. Be very respectful to the police though. Believe me, it's better to avoid an escalated situation altogether than it is to fight it after the fact in court. A polite "I'm sorry officer I don't feel comfortable doing that" will get you much further than "I don't have to answer that" in a snotty tone of voice. Cops are the scum and bottom of society enforcing unjust laws on a daily basis and nobody hates them more than me, but letting your emotions get in the way is only going to end badly for everyone. Cops will try to bully you into getting what they want, and are much better at confusing you than the other way around. Be safe gentlemen!
The law is meant to work towards status quo, not towards whatever disturbs the status quo.
Excellent advice. Would also add a line to use when police want to "get your side of the story" or "have a chat down at the station":
Am I under arrest/being detained?
If you are not under arrest, you are under no obligation to speak with police or go anywhere with them. Cops use this as a way of gathering information by trying to seem like they're on your side, that they're reasonable actors and want to help clear you. Most people assume that if they haven't done anything wrong, they have nothing to fear. They also assume they would never say anything that could incriminate themselves, because they would see it coming.
Do not fall for this. I don't care how smart you are or how many episodes of Law & Order you've seen. Police are better than you at this. Its their job; its what they do everyday. When they don't have an arrest for a crime, its "open" and they have to spend time and resources investigating it. They're only focus is to close open cases, irrespective of whether the person in question is truly guilty or innocent.
This would work 10 years ago before youtube. But to days culture, it will come off as being very pretentious as we constantly see videos of know-it-all smart asses trying to take on cops. You want to avoid agitating the cops and keep the interaction very mellow and low energy.
"I understand you are trying to do you job officer. But I'm not comfortable speaking with you without a lawyer."
They will beat around the bush a few more times. Just repeat the same phase. Reword it if need be but if you just repeat, "Am I under arrest or detained?" you are likely to infuriate the officer. It's better to at least explain that you know what he's doing, aka gathering evidence, yet you aren't going to help him incriminate you.
"Officer i understand you want to get to the bottom of this. I want to help you, but not without my lawyer."
Once the cops understand you won't be giving them evidence they will then arrest you on any evidence they have, which if they had enough you'd already be in the squad car, or they will leave.
It's effective to use their own tactics on them, "I want to help you but..."
I prefer: "This is starting to sound pretty serious. I think I should talk with my lawyer first just in case."
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Money or family lawyer. I believe you can give lawyers a retainer and they will be on call whenever you need them. I have a family lawyer and only ever had 1 run in with the law so I've never dealt with one directly using a retainer.
If they (the police) offer to provide you a lawyer you should NOT take it, correct?
I don't have a lawyer or know if my family has one so I'll have to yellowpage some lawyers if I'm in that situation.
If you're under eighteen, they can't interview you without the consent of your parents anyway. You don't really need to have a specific lawyer on call. They'll stop trying to question you if you assert attorney privilege. You literally don't have to say anything in a police interview.
Tell that to Brendan dassey
Well I've only ever had to actually say that once in my life, but I didn't have any real intention of calling a lawyer. It's just an understandable excuse to stop talking to the cops basically.
This is good, it implies that they're intimidating you. Cops like that.
Yes. There are many ways to say this without escalating the situation.
One is to say something like "My uncle/brother/grandpa/etc is a lawyer and he told me that I should never talk to police without a lawyer no matter what happened and he'd just kill me if he found out..." or similar. Put the blame on a not-present "bad cop" who isn't in the room that just won't let you. Which of course is the standard practice the police themselves use.
With that said, I've had cops come to the door because of insane divorce bullshit and there really isn't anything wrong with a simple "am I being detained now" and turning around and walking away if they say anything other than yes.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. If they are going to arrest you you'll find out soon enough.
Point well taken, should have noted that to be delivered with respect and in a non-confrontational manner.
Also, cops are very good at wording their statements to insinuate things without directly stating them. Sometimes when cops pull the, "lets go have a talk," etc. lines, they are trying to get you to think you are required to go with them, as in the case of an arrest (you are not permitted to resist even unlawful arrests. If a cop is arresting you, even on complete bullshit, put your hands behind your back and cooperate). Asking that question puts them on the spot as they will be required to arrest you, handcuff you, read you your rights and provide a lawyer if you don't have one, or back off.
"The suspect said he was, quote, 'uncomfortable' speaking with me."
Yeah that'll go over well. Let's give them ammunition to put into the gun.
You can't even make Reddit comments without fucking up. You really think you'll do that much better in a real life situation? You won't.
Either talk, or say you aren't talking. Stop trying to find some middle ground where you can not talk but the cop still wants to be your best buddy. Stop putting cops on a pedestal.
I love the Red Pill. You guys are amazing and it makes me feel like I can handle the world.
Every attorney I've ever heard says the same thing yet we still have guys here chiming in with, "just be nice and answer their questions."
1.) Don't get married. 2.) Don't bang crazy off Tinder. 3.) Don't talk to Police.
bang crazies off tinder, just not with your real name and any identifiable information. And at her place. Wear a rubber so you don't get that penile burn
One thing I can add to this discussion is applicable to canadians.
You dont have a right to have a lawyer present when being interviewed. Cops are allowed, and often do, keep you in retention stewing in the hope that you'll talk. Sometimes, they'll even put you in the holding cells with hyper violent crazies in the hope that violence will happen, and they can rescue you to be the "good guys". In many ways, we have less rights than Americans.
Never talk to police, avoid fighting if you are put in the holding cell, and always memorize the number for your lawyer. Having it in your wallet is rather useless as they take all of your possessions away from you.
Any other points for Canadians?
Hmm...really depends on the situation to know what life advice to give. It really depends if they have placed you under arrest or not.
For example, if not under arrest, you can leave the police station whenever you want. Also the prosecutor decides what evidence goes to court. So if you tell the cops something that proves your innocence, he doesn't have to bring that to court - its up to the defense to do that. Just to reiterate, cops are never your friends.
One of the problems of living in Canada is that the cops dont really follow the law as often as the cops do in the states, which is something you really notice a lot when work or travel a lot between the two countries. They'll cover their name tags (or remove them), block video cameras, etc - all of which are blatantly illegal.
Whoa.... am thinking of migrating to Canada/ studying then moving back. Can you elaborate on other specifics that are typical of Canadian cops?
Dont move back until you get PR status and canadian citizenship, even if you dont intend to come back to the country and use the social system, you can still sell your citizenship for a pretty penny. More than a few of my foreign MBA classmates did this (ie. fake arranged marriages).
I dont know where you are immigrating from, so its tough to say how canadian cops compare to your country's cops. In general, canadian cops occupy one of the highest paid professions in the country - easily 6 figures, and thats without their benefits/pension. They also have a strong lobby group, meaning that they aren't too worried about breaking the law. That said, the only time they really do get into trouble is when people are filming them with their phones (by the way - have a pin for your phone - they can access your phone without your permission otherwise).
what the fuck kinda bullshit is that? fuck that feminist hellhole
For the benefit of those who do not have the patience/time of sitting through a 50 minutes video, here are the 7 key points in a nutshell:
1. There is no way it can help
2. If your client is guilty - and even if he is innocent - he may admit his guilt with no benefit in return - What's the rush?
3. Even if your client is innocent and denies his guilt and mostly tells the truth, he can easily get carried away and tell some little lie or make some little mistake that will hang him
4. Even if your client is innocent and ONLY tells the truth, he will always give the police some information that can be used to help convict him.
5. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating, there is still a grave chance that his answers can be used to crucify him if the police don't recall his testimony with 100% accuracy
6. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating and his statement is videotaped, his answers can be used to crucify him if the police don't recall their questions with 100% accuracy.
7. Even if your client is innocent and only tells the truth and does not tell the police anything incriminating and the entire interview is videotaped, his answers can still be used to crucify him if the police have any evidence, even mistaken or unreliable evidence that any of his statements are false, even if they were true.
The truth can wait until your day in court, when you know what cards the prosecution is playing, and what to say to the jury. Until then, DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE.
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have you ever had employers question the felony arrest? it would still show up on a background check even though the charges were dropped.
"I don't answer questions" is the phrase you're looking for.
Cops are looking for an easy arrest or to lock up someone who they believe is dangerous. They'll also fuck with you if you antagonize them. Don't provide any of these things and you'll be surprised what happens.
My best friend has been a DA for almost 15 years. His single most consistent piece of legal advice to me? NEVER answer questions from a police officer without representation present. Even with routine traffic stops, the questions are intentionally designed to screw you.
Protip: Your house has more rights than you do. If the police come to your door you don't have to answer it. They will go away eventually unless they have just cause. 9/10 they don't have cause to bust in your door.
If they call your phone you don't have to answer it. Never talk to the police over the phone. Ever.
Am a cop, cannot confirm. I've personally come across situations where the evidence was initially pointing in favor of the woman, but because the man pointed out evidence in his favor, the woman was actually arrested for domestic assault (she literally threw her shit at him). This attitude that cops are just out to get convictions (it makes no goddamn difference to us if you are convicted) is BS. We're here to enforce the law. If our investigation shows that no one should be arrested, we do not want to and will not arrest you.
Then there are all the times that a predominate aggressor cannot be determined, and no one is charged with anything. If I show up to a domestic assault call and the woman says "He hit me!" and shows me a bruise, while the guy refuses to say anything, guess who is going to jail? Meanwhile, if he had shown me the scratch marks under his shirt he put on as we got there, things would have been different. Actually had that happen where the woman showed me her marks after already being taken to jail.
Never talk to the police? What about if I'm going door-to-door looking for a missing kid or asking if anyone saw someone suspicious over a night where there were larcenies from cars outside? Don't be an ass.
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Doesn't get more real than cruising around, listening to music, and kicking ass. Maybe one day I'll work in an office. Not yet though.
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What if I answer your questions, and because of your perception, you now suspect me of abducting children or breaking into cars? I can't control your perception, but I can avoid conversing with you. How dumb would I feel if you dragged me into court somehow and my words were twisted to connect me to a crime?
Speaking to the police is a legal liability that can threaten your health, livelihood, freedom, and time. I don't mean any disrespect to you, Danimal876. This isn't meant to be disparaging to police officers. I understand that the scenarios you listed are all valid reasons to question people, but the power dynamic between police officer and citizen leaves the citizen open to being taken for a painful, expensive ride if they open their mouth.
Police officers need probable cause to seek a charge against you. The idea that opening your door and speaking with an officer to assist them in investigating a crime or a missing person is ludicrous to anyone familiar with the profession, no disrespect to you as well, sir.
If you'll bear with me, let me give you an example of how difficult it can be to convict someone who, by all realistic appearances, was guilty of a crime. I took an unauthorized use call, unauthorized use meaning that someone drove this man's car without having permission. This is different than regular auto larceny, as with unauthorized use, there is no intent to permanently deprive them of the vehicle.
The suspect was the victim's roommate. The victim said his roommate disappeared the previous night, and so did the victim's minivan and keys to the van. An hour or so later, he gets a call from a friend who sees the roommate getting arrested for drunk in public in the same area as the minivan, where it lies in a ditch. The suspect in the unauthorized use did not admit to the officers that he was the driver of the vehicle or even in the vehicle whatsoever, and they had no witnesses to say otherwise. Therefore, he could not get arrested for DUI. The officers also miss on the initial search the keys to the minivan in his pocket, which are found when he's searched at the jail.
I show up at the jail the next morning and read the man his rights. I can't get him for DUI, of course, but if he admits to me that he drove the car, I can get him for unauthorized use as well as another felony due to him not being allowed to drive because of multiple DUIs and a license that is still suspended because of them. He tells me a story that he started walking to the store when a random man driving his roommate's minivan pulls up to him a block from the house and offers him a ride to the store. This mysterious man then allegedly crashes the vehicle in front of the store, throws the keys at my suspect, and vanishes. The suspect admitted to being in the car, an accident occurring, and possessed the keys to the vehicle. Was he charged? Yes. But was he convicted? No, and a trial hardly even happened. It was nolle prossed without the judge hearing any facts, as the prosecutor determined beforehand it wasn't winnable.
I relay this story to convey this point: we need plenty of evidence to place a charge against someone, and far more to convict. Refusing to help the police when you are not even a suspect due to some fear that you will someone get locked up does a couple of things, but primarily it makes society worse off as it widens the gap between the people and the police. If you want to contribute to your community transitioning into a ghetto, then proceed with that way of thinking.
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This is probably fruitless, considering your snide comments, but I didn't mention it because that circumstance has never happened with me. I'm sorry someone spied your bong and you got charged, truly.
Yeah, I like it when people make my job easier, because that means fewer criminals roaming around breaking into places.
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This, so much this. Also am cop. I worked patrol for years then went in to investigations; a lot of which include family violence. I can't tell you how many cases I've due to lack of evidence rather than a warrant filed and arrest made because the male "suspect" provided me with a plausible and non-incriminating statement.
The rule should be, "Don't talk to the police if you actually did something wrong. If you were in the right, legally, then provide that information for the investigation. Talk to a lawyer before hand if you are unsure of the legality of your actions.
You both are criminals in a criminal system. I realize that you personally probably don't have the desire to hurt people or violate the rights of anyone, this is not an attack on your character or personality. And I realize some of the things you do may have a face of legitimacy, I'm sure you have at times helped pursue recourse against those who have violated the rights of others.
But you are a trustee of a corporation that demands you obey their criminal orders or be punished, and further, has normalized criminal behavior, so long as it's a member of their corporation doing it. Just think, if a regular person went around threatening to lock people in a caged dungeon for having some plants or driving without a sticker, and killed them if they resisted, would that be ok? To threaten people's lives who have harmed no one and caused absolutely zero damage?
We're there any good Nazis? Maybe. Almost irrelevant. They helped perpetuate the evil of a criminal system, and thus were representatives of force for criminals.
Don't hide behind the state. It is all just People, committing acts of violence against other people. Don't hide behind the fact that you also pursue criminals, you are part of a criminal system yourself. Don't come back with how you disagree with the drug laws, what matters is if you as an individual are perpetrating violence against otherwise peaceful People.
If you don't like the laws in the US or how the legal system works, do something to fix it other than reading sovereign citizen literature and violating Goodwin's law on a subreddit about male game theory.
You reveal your dim wit by your own words.
First, it's Godwin's law, and second, I didn't violate it, I validated it. And look at you, monkey parroting about "sovereign citizens" like a good little automaton. And if ur opposed to discussing law theory on TRP, why are u posting responses to OP in the first place?
Finally, I'm a vet, served as an officer. Unfortunately I was serving criminals instead of the Constitution so I got out.
You are paid with money extorted from peaceful People, you enforce unlawful statutes in maritime admiralty jurisdiction (martial law), you are a pawn for criminals. The Constitution is useful for things other than toilet paper. Think about being a man, of your oath, instead of a thug.
Oathkeepers
Oh boy, maritime admiralty jurisdiction... here we go. How well did quoting a bunch of nonsense work out for the oathkeepers up in Oregon?
Regardless, never speak to a cop.
To each his own. Sometimes this attitude is better to have and sometimes this attitude will find you on an otherwise avoidable trip to jail.
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I'd agree with you if you were the target of a criminal investigation, sure; but like I said, there are many instances where giving a basic statement of events can save you a lot of time and money down the line. For example, I wouldn't recommend this to someone who was just, say, in a non-at-fault auto accident. If they only have one side of the story and it's the at-fault person's side, it's safe to say it's going to be a pretty biased accident report and most likely you'll be found at fault or at the minimum, double at fault. I don't know too many people who have legal counsel on speed dial and retainer. Anyway, that's just my 2c.
OP edited to convey this point.
If you have clear evidence for your defense, don't be an idiot and sit there silently. Again, though, you can present evidence in your defense and still choose to not answer any questions.
That which I think is important, is not talking to the police, even if you are the victim. Let the courts do their work. Unless the purpetrator is getting away, keep your mouth shut.
So true.
And when your lawyer tells you not to talk to anyone.... please follow that advice - it makes it really difficult for us to defend you when you fucking blab to "only one person" and then they appear for the prosecution.
And if any of you guys do drugs, wear compression shorts and always shove ur drugs up ur asshole. I've done it for ages and I've always been good.
I vote for this on sidebar!! I had police in a dv altercation put words into my mouth that I never said.
You can't talk your way out of trouble with the police. They are interested in gathering evidence against you.
If you say something that incriminates you then they consider it very credible.
If you say something that exonerates you they don't believe you and probably won't record it or will suppress it later.
The police are like corporations. They are not moral. They enforce the law. They are not there to set people free. They are there to put them in jail and gather enough evidence to keep them there.
The police are not your friends even if you think you know them.
Cops are not there to protect you, they're there to protect the state and it's structures of taxing.
I wonder how many people in this thread who are claiming to conclusively know what all cops (there's over a million) want are actually cops themselves or have ever actually even had a real conversation with someone who is a cop.
And also what about all those people claiming to know that all guns are loaded?
Great post Clint, I really appreciated your business write-ups a few days ago. Keep it up with the content.
This guy is glowing! Great video, great energy.
There's a much, much better one that I can hopefully dig up. It's an ex-cop who became a lawyer, so he has perspective on both sides of the situation.
This vid has been around a long time and classifies as an "Oldie But Goodie". It's well worth the time it takes to view it.
"On the advice my attorney, sir, I invoke my right to remain silent."
It was one of the first utoob videos I ever watched. Love it.
I understand this in the context you described, and I watched the video. Great things to keep in mind.
But how are these concepts applied to something small like say, a traffic stop, etc.? Part of me wants to think that being difficult with the cop will leave me worse off, whether it's true or not.
Measure the severity of what you are being stopped for. If you got into a drunken first fight, don't talk to the police. Many times people will not tell the same story when drunk, even if they see the entire event. It's actually better the more people that see it as it will cause a ton of different stories and the prosecution won't know which way is up.
If you say nothing, they have nothing but a bunch of drunk peoples stories that don't jive up.
If you are being stopped for speeding, the worst you are going to get is a ticket. It's better to talk.
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Just watch any video of a cop pulling someone over and him going internet-lawyer on the cop. It never ends well.
There's a big difference between being questions for assault vs "Do you know how fast you were going?"
i take the stance of NWA
great post man, people forget about this.
There are very few times where talking with the police will help. Most usually revolve around a traffic stop for speeding. I had one such stop. I opened up to speeding (I was). The officer let me of with a warning and guidance where the speed limit sign I missed was at.
Anything more serious than a few miles over, you generally don't want to talk.
may beat the case but you wont beat the ride
Is this relevant for the UK?
Always use the shortest possible answer. Never say anything if a question hasn't been asked. Your right to remain silent is your greatest savior, talking is your worst enemy.
"I didn't do anything wrong, but this sounds like it could be serious. I'm not going to say anything until I talk to my lawyer."
And then don't say anything until you talk to your lawyer.
I know i'm going to get drilled for this but i've been talking with my coworker for about 3-4 weeks now…texting back and forth. I post a snap one night with some girls laughing in the background, I'm guessing she got the jealousy pill and started to text me to confirm or piss me off. Anyway, I tell her that she's not that important to me and that she should stop being a little girl (esp after she gave me that whole LJBF speech). So she gets pissed and says she'll cut me if I ever talk to her like that again…obviously she was joking because she even called the next morning and was laughing about it. But, should I just keep things the way they are or cut off communication? She's a HB9…i definitely wanna bang is my only dilemma. RP'er for only 3 months asian persuasion 5'11'', 205, 11% bmi.
Sounds unstable. Level of hotness usually correlates with craziness. If you have better options take them.
thanks! guess you're right…i actually called her crazy once and she flew off the handle.
The fact of the matter is the pigs have so much stupid crime shit that if you can make it difficult for them to gather enough evidence, they might just say fuck it and move on.
There is an instinct in the human mind to explain themselves, to convince others (especially those in authority) that they are "good".
There is basically no instance in which speaking to the police will help you. Ever. If you are a rat and you want to roll on someone, you do so after your lawyer gets you a deal. Not before (Standard disclaimer rats should die.)
Your charm will not save. Your innocence will not save you. Common sense will not save you. Your silence and a good lawyer might save you.
I don't know why you need a 50 minute video to explain something this simple. Straight up - you have nothing to gain from talking to the cops. Lawyer up right away and don't budge an inch.
The best thing to say (after identifying yourself) when you're being questioned by any type of law enforcement, regardless of what they ask you is "I have nothing to say".
I recently went on a quest after watching this video a few days ago and started watching Making a Murderer documentary on Netflix, as I was not really familiar with US justice system and I was quite amazed how things could turn out for you if you talk to the police.
Turns out you don’t even have to show ID to the police at random places such as checkpoints.
More videos I found about police doing illegal checkpoints or them being clueless about the law:
Australian cop here.
Tip #1. Not talking to cops when your accused of a crime is always smart. Most low level crooks are dumb and will talk away and I can just diligently take notes and find out all sorts of details and useful information. Am I out to ruin your life? No, but I am there to enforce the law within reason.
Tip #2. Know your rights, but also know the law's. If I suspect on enough grounds that you've been involved in an arrestable offence. I will arrest you. I will tell you why I'm arresting you. There is no way to talk out of it at that point. I will do my best to make the arrest smoothly without force. However if you resist it will not end well. The more you resist, the more force is allowed to be applied. You now also have further charges like assault police/resist police depending on the level. Keep in mind I don't want to do this. Which brings me to the most important point.
Tip #3. Don't be an asshole. I'm a very reasonable guy, for minor offences I'm more than likely to give you a friendly warning. I have discretion under the law. Even if you have a shitty record, I'll often cut people a break. I deal with the real scum of society at times so, If your a regular citizen and I've stopped you for a non arrestable offence. If you pull some bullshit with me, lie when I've caught you red handed, pull out a phone and start recording me, rather than interacting like a normal human being. Then I'm more than likely to load you up with all the fines under the sun that legally I can give you.
Tip #4. If you get a highway patrol cop. Sucks to be you. Nobody really likes them among cops either.
Feel free to ask questions if you have any.
Regarding 3
Can you do both? a "reasonable" cop is great but the message I've seen over the years is to record everything. Now this hardly stops you from being polite and reasonable back, but how are the cops going to react? Will the decent cop immediately turn nasty once the phone comes out- no matter how calm and reasonable you've been about it?
I'm being a nice guy here, and you're fucking recording it? is the way I imagine this situation would go. When, if ever are you safe not to record police interaction?
If the interaction is over something minor and you pull out your phone, I'll still be reasonable and friendly, but generally I'll do things completely by the book then, which means no discretion. For small offences it ties my hands.
If your videotaping somebody else just make sure your on public property and your not hindering the police by your proximity.
Right, how about the general divide through the rest of the comments? The views are either that you should never talk, or that silence/knowing your rights will only hurt you. In your experience can a person protect himself without triggering the cops and getting shit on for daring to look out for himself?
Knowing your rights won't hurt you, but many people don't know them that well. In certain cases not cooperating with police in Australia is actually held against you in a court of law.
In America it is different due to your constitution.
When it comes to videoing an encounter, I'd advise to just be polite and explain why your videotaping and that will help.
I would say that everything I've said only applies if your accused. If your a victim or witness. The more we get from you the better. Can't keep the community safe if people don't help.
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You don't seem to understand your law. If the offence is arrestable. I am legally required by law to arrest you. There is no discretion.
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Not really. I'm just saying you can write your own ticket by your behaviour. Being polite and having your camera out is fine.
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What world do you live in? If I stop you for speeding, what reason would I have to cut you a break if your an asshole? Same in all aspects of life. If your an asshole don't expect to get far.
Not all cops are like that tho...
Lots of ignorance and BAD advice on this thread. I could tell you that if you try to act like a YouTube lawyer, your interaction with police will not end well.
When it comes to DV, you need to talk. In California, if there is a girl who is willing to lie and accuse you of hitting you and you have no proof of otherwise. Click click, you're gone. It has nothing to do with the officer. It's self preservation, the officer has to make the arrest for liability reasons. You need to be proactive about protecting yourself against crazy women. Record behavior, save texts, etc. Unfortunately, DV is not "innocent until proven guilty."
There are very few positions that have quotas. No such thing as getting paid more for giving tickets or making arrests. Other than looking like a good employee for promotions and movement within an agency.
It's painfully obvious some of you have never interacted with police. You've seen one too many facebook videos on a "bad arrest." Stop perpetuating ignorance and BAD advice.
If its a traffic stop, sure, be cordial, even entertaining if he/she is receptive. But if they are questioning you regarding a crime, every defense attorney in the US will advise you the same way, do not say anything. Ever.
I have made the mistake of trying to explain police procedure in a place where the hate is so deep. I don't care about the down votes.
My advice was directed towards those men with crazy women in their lives. You NEED to protect yourself. If you plead the fifth and expect police not to find some law you've broken by acting like a YouTube lawyer twat, good luck.
Source: I've arrested plenty of women for felony/misdemeanor DV based on the smart actions of men who didn't pull that silent bullshit.
Sure, if you know you've committed a crime, don't say a word. In which case, you're a dirtbag criminal. Cheers.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone with that opinion is a dirtbag criminal.
If you are being questioned by the police, shut up.
Watch the video. It explains it very well. Nothing you say can help you. Even if you are innocent and have done nothing wrong. Bad things can happen if you make statements. Do not do it.
Such bad advice. Treat cops with humility and respect. They will usually level with you.
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do you think white cops see a white suspect then they let out a sigh of relief and start giving fistbumps and an invitation to their bbq? they treat everyone like assholes, because half the people they run into deserve it.
Yep, but, some people hate to have no life, with nothing to do, so, they imagine Quixotean windmills and giants, so, they choose racism, and the Evil White System.
Black cops can be fuckers and fuck over white people too.
Life is not fair and we all are judged by attributes we cannot change.
Being white and regularly playing basketball with blacks meant that I was always picked last; despite my being a pretty good player.
If I was part of a demographic that is involved with the vast majority of drug and violent crime in certain areas, I'd probably take considerable steps to avoid any appearance of impropriety.
Hip Hop out yo' shit all you like, it's a free country. But when you get treated like a thug because you're doing everything possible to look like a thug - well, that is not smart.
Case in point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACKmYhlTx5k
Is this a fucking serious post? Holy shit, get OVER your victim complex!
It all depends on two things: location and appearance.
In most parts of Detroit, the city is a shit hole. Most blacks in Detroit dress and look like criminals. It doesn't matter if they ARE or not, because in order to defend against the ones who are, they dress to blend in. It's a self defence tactic. If you look hard, fewer people will fuck with you.
To all cops, except for the veterans, who live outside the city or in one of the few remaining decent parts of the city, these people LOOK scary. Many of the veterans have also adopted a "no time for this shit" attitude, which also doesn't help things.
What does this mean? It means don't get stopped by the cops! How fucking stupid do you have to be to think, "gee I'm black so cops are gonna shoot me oh look a cop is nearby let me hang around and not fucking B A I L". If you have this victim complex, then you should also have a self preservation complex that means if you see cops, you either Fight or Flight. Part of being alpha means you rarely utilize the Freeze option.
If you are in a city that isn't like Detroit, for example a college town big on fraternities, population...let's say 100k, with little to no ghetto.
Cops' number one priority is gonna be busting up rich, usually white, frat parties. This means they will be experienced with drug searches, chasing suspects, dealing with drunks, and questioning. Anybody who "looks" hard, they are gonna think, "ayy lmao this fuckin try hard we don't even HAVE a ghetto he's just trying to look hard".
These cops are gonna be MUCH friendlier regardless of race, but ESPECIALLY towards hard-looking blacks.
This was all assuming you meant on-foot stops. If you meant traffic stops, then for the love of God:
Do not let your car smell (to human noses) like ANY drug or ANY smell normally used to cover up a drug smell
Do not make any sudden movements
Do not already have your window rolled down
Do not let them see a firearm, even if you are licensed
Do not threaten an attorney unless it's an actual court or ticket-tier case
Do turn your lights on
Do place your wrists on the steering wheel at 10 and 2, hanging your hands over the dash
Do be friendly
Do announce CALMLY any firearms IF you have a license, "Officer I just want to let you know ahead of time that I am licensed and carrying a <insert make and model>, I didn't want there to be any misunderstandings if you saw it without me telling you."
Do speak as little as possible
Do use common sense. If a cop says to you, "Hey Mrs Robinson across the street was robbed and killed last night, did you hear or see anything strange?" and you say, "I'd like to speak to my attorney," you have become a suspect.
Number one rule with dealing with cops is, USE COMMON SENSE.
Never have I ever been asked about a crime that a cop did not suspect that I might have a chance at being involved in. They do not ask those questions for shits and giggles.
If they ask you are a suspect. If you blink the wrong way do to a gnat during your statement of innocence they become sure you did it.
Take it from the cop and the lawyer. Do not talk to the police.
Yep. Better to be a suspect 10 million times than to open your mouth to a cop. If you say "uh" before answering any question, you are a suspect. USE COMMON SENSE. Cops ain't your homies, and they aren't asking you questions to make sure that you stay OUT of jail.
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Posts like this on the front page make this sub look like a rape tacticians headquarters.
To whom? It sure didn't to me. Rape didn't even come up till your post. And, even then, I'm still wondering why you said "rape" instead of "criminal" or something...
Police get paid by how many arrest/tickets they do for the physical year. Wouldn't it make sense to arrest everyone and ticket everyone if they can?
But then again...I work for an IT company and have a couple police departments as clients and I get paid more for upgrading the size of their servers. So, please....keep talking to the police so they can get more data and need upgrades.
Do you really believe this? I worked as a cop for 12 years, guess I better call them back and ask where all my yearly bonuses are.
The sad, simple truth of the matter is there were no quotas, bonuses, or whatever. I got paid the same whether I arrested 1 person or 100.
Additionally, arresting people added a lot of additional work load in the form of mounds of paperwork. To be totally honest, the only time I or most of my coworkers would arrest someone was when they were being a total pain in the ass and it became less work to arrest them than put up with their bullshit.
Flame away.
Not sure why he conflated arrests with citations. But I think it's fair to say that many police departments have quotas for citations / fines. It's a revenue stream.
That's adorable. Try your whole department stop arresting...let's say...20% of the same as last year. Then let's see how much you have in the budget. Let's be real for a min...cops get paid to arrest and issue citations. Stop being so naive.
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If you're smart enough talking to the police isn't bad. If you know your rights it's pretty easy to give them nothing just don't be detailed. :-):-)example: the movie night crawler and his discussion with the police in the movie.
That's not a good example. It's a scene from a movie.
This lecture is about the real world use of the 5th or common law equivalent.
It articulates a point. The words you use are very important.
You can cooperate with the police without a lawyer as long as you aren't stupid and you know your rights.
If you keep repeating points that contradict the position of an actual Lawyer/Law Professor and a seasoned Detective the only point I see being articulated by you is that you skimmed the whole video in 10 minutes or need to rewatch it a few more times until the information sinks in.
It's not about being dumb or smart, it's not about how well you know the law, it's not about how good you are at communicating, it's not about your actual guilt or innocence.
It's about knowing that you must apply the 5th from initial unwanted contact to pre-trial situations.
I've seen that video a long time ago I watched it fully multiple times over the years.
Again if you're stupid don't talk to the cops if you're smart you can talk to them with zero problems even if you're guilty.
It is about being dumb or smart even if you watch the video you can see when they talk about talking to the police.
Stupid people give too much details (same with bad liars) the more details you give the more chance you have to duck up.
Short concise narratives you don't elaborate on. You don't ask questions you don't use outside info.
If you hear a cop mention it was a shooting unless you saw the shooting happen you don't mention it.
It's really not that hard, I've been on the wrong side of the law many times.
You must have missed the part where they point out that even if you are really fucking smart, are completely innocent and make zero mistakes when telling the truth, it can still fuck you over.