Let's talk about cheating.
More specifically, let's talk about the cheaters script. I have been through this, and many men here have as well. Many men the world over have, many men over the centuries have. What I continue to encounter, over and over and over is that the script stays the same. Different states, different countries, different ages of men and ages of women. The actions and words before, during, and after have an uncanny repeatability that is freakishly adhered to. Over and over. I call it the cheaters script. Once you see it a few times you will begin to see it everywhere. Once you recognize it, you can never not see it.
First off, my quick background as it relates to cheating. This is to provide some perspective of my views, and how I formed them over time. I am now a single man, approaching 40 later this year. I have been single for almost 4 years now. I was married for for more than a decade, and we lived together for 3 prior to marriage - so my longest relationship was 15 years. I had two children with that woman. During that entire time, I never cheated on her. I had opportunities to, but I never did. I discovered infidelity on her part during our last year or so together. Confronted, blah blah. It ended. We separated, we divorced. That sucked.
Since then, or I should say soon afterword, I do not know why, but I began dating and actually rather quickly began sleeping with a married woman. I then began sleeping with multiple married women. I am not particularly proud of this, but it is what it is. One of those girls left her husband (actually he left her). We pseudo-dated, I then cheated on her one weekend she was not available. She immediately forgave me of course, but our fun had run it's course and I moved on. I began seeing multiple women at a time, and did pretty much nothing but that for about 18 months. I had a soft harem of women that I saw regularly. Some of them had boyfriends, some of them had boyfriends, then was single, then had new boyfriends - never once affecting what they would do with me.
Sometime about a year ago I decided to drop my harem and go the LTR route. Overall, a very rewarding relationship. However, if I had to guess, she probably cheated on me, and I definitely cheated on her.
I have done one night stands, 2/3 night stands, carried on an actual affair with a woman or two that claimed to love me and gladly accepted the "side girl" role knowing I was involved with someone else. I have heard women on the phone with their partners after having sex with me, heard them talking to their kids that they would be home from work soon. Even had side girls proclaim I was the only man for them only to be with another man a day or two later...
"Cheating" no longer particularly angers me, or really even concerns me. I have seen it from so many perspectives it is more of a given than an unexpected heart breaker. I would never let a woman get close enough to me to change my view of self like that again. I have seen it from just about every perspective, as a victim, as an active participant, as an unknown participant, all of it. It is a part of life. It is a part of relationships. It is just a given.
So with my experience of cheating out of the way - let's really talk about the script. What does it look like mechanically, emotionally, what should one watch out for? What should you do? What should you expect?
Side note - I am not a woman basher - this is not an "all women are like that" post. Both men and women cheat. For the most part, the script does not change. In my post below, I will attempt to alternate from the women cheater perspective to the man cheater perspective. Both are applicable, this post is about cheating, not just about cheating women...
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The before
There honestly are pre-signs. These should help you determine if a problem is on the horizon. At this point, things are likely resolvable.
Here are some facts I am fairly certain of:
No one cheats when they are happy and getting their needs met.
There are only two types of cheating women:
When you have a cheating woman in your life, more than likely when she looks in the mirror, she does not see option #1. Ever. That does not mean it is a true statement, it means she convinces herself it is a true statement. It is always her partners at fault she is unhappy. This is crucial to the script, and comes up later.
There is generally only one type of cheating men:
- those who are not getting their emotional or physical needs met.
What does the before look like?
Here are the clues:
You start hearing "Never and always". We never... you never.. we always.. you always.. all of them followed by some negative remark. Of course, they are not true. This is an emotional statement, wherein the other person is being framed as a constant and static problem.
You start seeing emotional detachment. You will have no idea what's going on inside her head. Many questions will get answered with "I don't know", anything to increase confusion and indecision. This is where the not knowing where she has been, where she is going, and for how long begins. Anything to increase detachment and confusion on your part. Of course, it will be coupled with "I love you's" to amplify the confusion levels.
Making the spouse look bad and feel bad.
Here is another fact of relationships; when a woman is into you - it really doesn't matter what you say or do. You can almost do no wrong. When a woman is rejecting you, you can do no right. Many men fall for this trap and try to listen to their women telling them what's wrong and begin supplicating them. Of course nothing they do is right.
That set's the stage..
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The During
The chase is now afoot.. here are the things that are the most classic signs cheating has began.
She starts going to the gym, or getting a membership to a tanning salon, dressing better. All of them individually mean nothing. When combined you should ask why she is putting this much effort into her appearance.
Cheaters are very protective of their phone. Yes, it never leaves their side. It may suddenly get a password protect, (for the kids of course), it is usually now on silent or vibrate only. Especially take note when they do not share that password.. also, leaving the phone face down is something I have consciously done and seen.
Speaking of phone, leaving the room to talk on the phone or text.
New credit cards, new online identities. I do not really know the psychology behind it, but I have seen this a few times and want to add it to the list. If she is creating a new identity with her name only, it's because she already sees you out of the picture.
Sudden appreciation of a new style of music she never cared for before, out of nowhere. It is often said that women adopt the hobbies of the man they are with, and my experience in life shows that to be true. If she suddenly adopts new tastes out of nowhere, you might wonder about it.
Not wearing the ring, or other jewelry you gave her. Not going to elaborate on this one but it is a big flashing red sign.
Going to the store for groceries, or a quick shopping trip takes 5 hours.
You hear any of the following:
"we are just friends" "i need privacy" "i love you but am not in love with you" "im confused and need time to figure out my feelings"
Of course, it cannot be one sided. She also will be loving sometimes, she will do everything in her power to maximize the confusion and anxiety. That is how she maintains the scheme. Also expect a SHIT TON of blame shifting.
Gaslighting - This truly is perhaps the worst in my opinion. Gaslighting is psychological abuse. It is a form used to make the victim of the affair feel crazy in order to let the cheater get away with it. You'll be made to feel crazy, hate your thoughts, maybe even consider suicide. The cognitive dissonance involved with having two thoughts in your head is awful. Some examples of this might include: "you’re crazy”, “you’re overreacting”… Then begin the “I have to go here” “I need to run an errand after work” or ”I need to stay late”, "I hate how jealous you are."
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The After
Denial and Trickle Truth - A hidden love affair is chemically, a lot like a line of cocaine. It is a huge surge of Dopamine. It also flood serotonin and oxytocin in the brain. It feels good, and all people - men and women - are vulnerable to doing things that feel good. Drug addicts do not care about hurting their family. They do it, they hide it as long as they can. It's a fog - and their brain only cares about keeping that high in their life. You very rarely if ever get the truth out of a drug addict in withdrawal - just as you almost never get truth out of a cheater once caught. It is always the least amount of information they think they can share and get away with. Over time you might get another piece - and that's when the true emotional damage becomes clear. Once you know that this other person cannot be trusted at all, it is a total wash, you mourn the relationship.
Blame shifting is a given, and should be expected. Hearing the following? "You pushed me away", "if you had been there for me", etc.
Re-writing of history - It doesn't matter that she was sending you love notes and texts a month ago. She has been unhappy for a long time now. She will find everything you ever did wrong and try to use it against you. Some of the shit I have heard.. "that time 10 years ago when you bought a hamburger but didn't get me one". It is natural from both sides at the end of a relationship. Both sides are re-wiring themselves to prepare for being single and need to purge those memories. This is a large part why nobody really enjoys hanging out with people going through a divorce by the way. If you are a man and have caught or even worse publicly outed a cheating woman - expect the wrath of Kahn to come down on your reputation.
This highlights a simple truth more men should understand.
I think it is common knowledge that you cannot control anyone else or anyone their emotions. You cannot make a woman like you, only she can do that. But in order for her to like you, what really has to happen psychologically is that she has to like herself when she is with you.
She is always viewing the world as it relates to her, so for her to like you, she has to enjoy the feels she has when she is with you. It is subconscious, and it really needs to stay there because no woman will ever thank you for pointing it out.. but it explains a lot.
Take the common case we see everyday on this forum, some chump has been married to a cheating woman. Same lying, same vocal attacks, same gaslighting, same emotional manipulation, same eventual rage from her to him .. the man is the victim but is made to be the worst person on the planet. why? Because how does miss cheater feel about herself when she is with him? She hates herself so she feels like she hates the man. Just like when she is in love and feels great about herself - she loves him.
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Final thoughts and take-aways
Cheating happens, you should assume it will happen to you. It has, and it will again. If you have had sex with a woman outside of a relationship it is likely you are part of her cheating on someone else. We have a huge divorce rate in this country, and nobody wakes up and says I just don't love you anymore. It is all cheating. All of it. Many relationships "go on". Many relationships are kept in the dark. I firmly believe that 100% of relationships will have a cheating element in them given long enough.
If you disagree, that means in my opinion you are the one likely to be cheated on.
I call this the light-switch effect. And it happens when a woman is no longer attracted to you and is moving on, whether or not she cheated.
I was originally typing up a reply, but I've made a new post about it here.
I think this should be sidebar material.
Michelle Langely's Women's Infidelity goes into much more depth.
I had a read of that. Almost like it was written by one if you boys
Forget sidebar, this should be mandatory reading material before you even post here. Many "ZOMG, AWALT!" posts -- if they actually are AWALT posts, can be answered in this post here.
Mandatory reading before you post is exactly what the sidebar was supposed to be
Technically you're right but the keyword is "supposed". It seems that people view it as a suggestion before they post and not mandatory
Idk man, the option to post is at the top of the side bar. I stopped reading after I saw that.
This should be mandatory reading for anyone even contemplating a monogamous relationship.
Who would wanna do something crazy like that?
Boy, oh boy. The "Always" and "Never" statements are powerful indicators something is afoot. In my experience, those, along with the rewriting history are the signals that it's pretty much over and you're in dangerous territory.
A good book on some of this is John Gottman's The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. Yes, I know it's a marriage focused book, but it covers some of this stuff.
Holy shit, i just realized that my ex probably cheated on me, that cunt lol
you should remove the word 'probably'.
you shouldremove the word 'probably'.That was the only time she cheated that the other dick was worth dumping you for. The rest of them she was still using you, but fucking others.
Reality sucks...
Yup, women will stir up drama and intentionally make themselves miserable so they don't feel guilty about cheating. It's their way of shifting the blame:
"I didn't cheat because I'm a shitty wife, I cheated because he is a terrible husband! It's his fault that I cheated, I'm the real victim here!"
This gem was posted here last year:
Straight from a cheating woman's mouth. And another example: https://archive.is/Hp8za
Nothing good comes from dealing in "absolutes". As it's been said, they are powerful indicators. Reasonable people don't deal in absolutes. They're polarizing to force a narrative in a specific direction.
Agreed. That was the first book that opened my eyes to relationship dynamics, CBT, and self-awareness. In fact, looking back, it's the first book that started my journey that eventually led me to TRP. Bottom line, there are some universal "truths" behind human behaviour. Understand yours, then you can begin to see everyone elses.
I must run in the wrong crowds... I never read that as Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy the first time.
It's not you, I didn't recognize it either when I read it. In a nut shell, CBT is how you think and behave. Gottman's book is about how you think and act in a relationship. So, IMO, it's better to understand yourself before entering a marriage, thus CBT.
In essence, isn't that what TRP is about? 1st - make you the best 'you' can be which involves physical (lifting), intellectual (career, hobbies), and emotional (stoic, mindfullness). Then enter relationships (sexual strategy) knowing your limitations and boundries....a.k.a.: on your terms. It's the first step that embraces CBT and provides a framework/tools for you to build your life.
Oh, I know what Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is. I just meant that I read it as "cock-and-ball torture," but I guess if you're writing about divorce it's not far off :P
LOL. I hear you... once I moved beyond the torture, I started to understand psychology. Then it's less about them, and more about me and how this knowledge can work for me.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
Reminds me of: "Look around the poker table. If you can't spot the sucker in the first 20 minutes, then it's you. "
ABC. Always Be Cheating. At least like that it won't have an emotional impact if your partner does it.
"I didn't tell you because I knew you would get upset."
Why, how unreasonable of me to get upset ...
Yep. It's your fault I lied. And cheated.
This has been my experience too, and understanding the game helps you keep it playing as long as you want it to. One of my longest spinning plates has been comet-orbiting me for over 10 years, ebbing and flowing as other boyfriends come and go. It can be a happy win-win for all parties.
I've reached this zen-like state too. It took my old blue pill, Disney-esque visions of love and relationships being left a burned-out hulk by the fires of harsh life experience to reach here, though the hard path isn't the only one here.
You've done an excellent job of cataloguing these, good work! Men, trust your gut instinct. If you think there's something off in a relationship, remember to trust but verify.
If you realize someone is doing this to you, GET OUT, get away! Forget your sunk costs and pride, don't bother trying to right things or get revenge or fix the relationship. Cut your losses and just go, trust my experience on this. Simple lying and deceit is one thing; trying to make you feel crazy for trusting your (objectively correct) instincts is next level fucked up.
My final thoughts, I prefer LTRs myself; with a realistic understanding of the sexual marketplace and true nature of humans, you can enjoy the benefits of LTRs and the variety of multiple partners, and minimize the anguish of breakups when they happen as part of the whole game.
Boyfriends come and go. Side niggas are forever.
This is amazing advice for every avenue in life.
How would one going about to verifying it? I've had that gut feeling for a while now, but not supported by any facts. I've read whole post and not a single red flag popped up.
All you have to say is let me look through your phone but ask it early in the morning when she has just woken up before she can clear all the late night messages. If she says no then walk.
If you're not married, just leave if you're that paranoid you need to see her phone. If a girl wants to see my phone that badly because of some ignorant thing she read in Cosmo or trp she will be in for disappointment - I don't share.
Yeah, I could care less anymore. I just expect it but PinnacleofHate asked how to verify it. Women live and die by their phones these days. Its an easy way to verify it.
Doesn't matter when you ask, how she reacts will say everything you need to know
True, if the gas lighting begins next. This entire post is exactly why I won't marry again or do a LTR. I've been cheated on and done the cheating. I agree with everything OP stated.
I'm 8 years in CL, one kick at the can. Even the spouse knows, it's a one shot deal, not that it matters, if she goes south, it's not her problem anymore
Youtube has a video. Search for '100 signs of a cheating spouse.' It's pretty comprehensive.
It depends how good she is to be honest, but there are always ways. Think outside the box. And once thought out, actually follow through.
I had my suspicions about my ex, and I knew techniques I could have used in the context of our relationship to find out the truth, but I let my mind slip and put it on the back burner. Big mistake.
The biggest thing I can say about verification is that in the modern world it has never been easier. Monitoring and surveillance technology has never been cheaper or more accessible, though consider legal issues in your jurisdiction.
Some little doozies that did enter my head for consideration:
1: Cheap fixed location surveillance.
Ingredients:
1: A beater car, something noone will pay any mind to, as dull as possible and cheap. Preferably messy inside. 2: A small dashcam 3: A large capacity SD card 4: A large capacity 12v battery 5: Some wire.
Dont live with your partner but curious who comes and goes from her place. Park the beater nearby preferably early hours of the morning, set up the dashcam to cover her front door and leave it running attached to a large battery. Set video resolution and battery saving modes as optimal for your conditions and leave to simmer. Likely with the right tweaking you can get 24-48 hours of coverage from every run. And who even notices an old car parked in their road.
2: Cheap GPS tracking
Ingredients:
1: Old busted smartphone 2: Additional battery pack (Optional)
Ask to borrow her car for a while, say yours is out of fuel and you need to pop to the store for something. Whatever, just get access to it without her presence for a few moments.
Make sure the phone is not traceable to you, is wiped of all identifying data and is pass code locked.
Turn off all nonessential services to preserve battery life.
Stash somewhere in the car. Preferably somewhere you can access in a hurry for retrieval but that she won't look in. Some cars have a nook for a first aid kit in the boot. This is a good start. Or the spare wheel well.
Fire up google location history and enjoy a minute by minute update of where she goes. Ought to give you some good leads. Next time she says shes stuck in the office, if her car is parked at a hotel, go pay a visit.
3: WhatsApp Web.
Depends how savvy the girl is on this one, and requires some social engineering but it can be very useful.
If you suspect shes conducting her activities over WhatsApp, but clearing her conversations, get access to her phone by social engineering hacks and discreetly scan the QR code onto your laptop to enable WhatsApp web. If she's not tremendously tech savvy she will probably never even know the capability exists. For as long as she fails to clear the association on the device, so long as you dont clear your cookies, enjoy minute by minute access to her conversations from anywhere on the globe.
Of course these are just the avenues that I considered with my cheating ex. Your situations, resources and needs may vary
If your suspicions are high enough to do what amounts to borderline stalking, just next her and move on with your life.
This. Unless you're married and need to gather evidence for your eventual divorce and custody battle.
Seriously. The above comment is stalking. If you are that paranoid and are willing to go that far, you have two problems. The woman and you.
Most men do not resort to surveillance out of paranoia or the sick pleasure of playing spy. It's about the years of emotional and financial investment in a single woman (all done by the book, according the bluepill blueprint), and about that gut instinct that is crying out loud that this bitch is out of control and can't be trusted... but has no real proof to back it up.
Meanwhile she's "gaslighting" him, and trying to paint him as a paranoid maniac, similarly to how you have done it in a defensive maneuver above. It's complete desperation, your whole life being dangled in front of you on a flimsy thread. The man wants facts and no longer gives a shit what law he breaks, or is he a stalker in your eyes or what. If you haven't been there, you don't know.
As the other guy said - Gaslighting is a powerful thing. Especially if a man has a lot to lose by leaving.
We practice trust but verify here. If you are going to verify, be thorough. And if you turn nothing up, great. You can rest easier.
Stalking is a BP bitch term in this context. There is no threat to her, no PI trailing her, noone rummaging through her underwear drawer for evidence, and no invasion of her personal space. Just verification of her words. The removal of her ability to lie and gaslight. Verifying her words is not stalking, and if it is, frankly, if shes the gaslighting whore you suspect her to be by the time you are considering any of these options, who gives a shit
Depends on exactly how much hold she has in reality. If shes just some plate, I agree. If shes a relatively new LTR, ditto. But YMMV, you may have kids, or you may THINK you have kids. There are infinite individual complications to relationships that vary the appropriate response. And sometimes you want to absolutely know before you pull the trigger.
Or save yourself the cost and energy and just assume that EVERY girl is a Chad fucking slut. Frees up my mind for other things
Some guys have to know. Its how they process betrayal. I know I'm one of those guys. And it depends on the context of your relationship. Limiting investment is always sound until you are confident, but if you are already emotionally invested you won't want to drop it based purely on an emotion. You will want to trust, but verify
Or just rent/borrow one for a couple of days.
If you can get one she won't recognise sure. The beater shouldn't cost you much, just drop it back on Gumtree/ebay when you are done
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maybe just ditch her and be done with it?
But thats just it. We're all getting cucked, whether we are aware of it or not. Whether you can prove or not
Jesus 10 years? They're like a part of your life at that point... That's scary to think about. I don't want to get old.
Funny, I was just coming around to the idea that there was a monogamous LTR in my future, but it really was just slipping back into old BP ways of thinking. Thank you for the reminder.
If that is what you want, then go for it. Use the tools and wisdom of the men around here and take a chance. Just understand that there is no such thing as "unconditional love". There is no such thing as "forever love". But love is real. It is very real, and LTR's can be enjoyable experiences. They have a shelf life, and no one really knows in advance how long that shelf life is. It could be 3 months, 3 years, or 10 years. Who knows.
Understand the risks, use your head, and then play the game getting what you want out of it. As long as you fundamentally know that as long as the good outweighs the bad - you're doing ok. And that if the bad outweighs the good, it's over.
Keep that in mind and get what you want out of life.
Thx, however, there is no longer a want, it's "would like," or "be open to," but it was the temptation to believe that understanding things like this would somehow preclude them from happening that was the slip.
As though we could change the nature of a relationship by anticipating this stuff. These are words that describe what is happening after it has happened. The knowledge can change the way you relate in the first place, since holding frame and abundance means that you'd let her walk long before it would get to the stage where she had to lie to end up with someone else. But it's not like you can get all that old hope back because, "this time I'd do it differently." The things that happened did because of who we all were.
When I look back on the times I've been cheated on, the pain from the dissonance for me was that I stopped trusting girls when there was a blip in their charm, but continued-on, thinking it was something I could fix. I ignored my instincts and I thought that if I was just open enough and dealt with questions directly, and was non-judgmental, it would increase our level of intimacy and we could "get through the distance that had come between us, because relationships are hard and take work," and we'd reconnect on a deeper level that would be a stronger foundation for the long term. It's laughable now, but you can see the appeal.
On a basic level, TRP redirects your "karma," so that anything that happens after cannot happen in the patterns it did before. Unless you lose a child, it is impossible to suffer like that again.
While I agree with AWALT, %80 more of people would probably agree that A(Relationships)ALT.
I see that blip and I end any and all emotional attachment, but usually continue using them for sex. I trust nobody, least of all girls. However just because I don't trust them does not mean I don't like them or appreciate them, I simply know they will do what they will eventually do.
This. I have been there. Call it a yellow-flag, or a red-flag: if you continue the LTR after you see it, you will get hurt. Not because she cheated on you. Because you did.
Nothing wrong with a relationship if you treat it like you would a contract, lease, etc. that's month to month. Towards the end of each monthly term, evaluate if you're getting what you want out of it and if you are, roll it over another month. Where guys get into trouble is when they view their relationships as long term, open ended arrangements.
Excellent way of looking at it.
This is very blackdragon-esque.
Especially the part you mention that 100% of relationships have an element of cheating.
This is the true Red Pill. It's not the guys fault or the woman's fault. It's just biology. Over the past few months I've been thinking that strict life long monogamy may not be a viable long-term solution.
After a few hours of not eating a human will get hungry, in the same vein after a few months or years of sex with the same person, both individuals (man and woman) will crave someone else.
It hurts to let go of an idea that you believed all your life, but acceptance that the fairy tale fantasy love life-long love does not exist can help men and women maximize the enjoyment they derive from life.
You didnt believe anything . You were force fed , brainwashed , duped , tricked by everything in this society since the moment you were born as a boy . You were told to believe what they wanted you to believe.
This is why its important that teenage boys find out about TRP . Most of todays boys are only surrounded by female influence ( harpies ) who will brainwash these boys to become cucks and slaves for them.
What I wish TRP to realize is the one woman who is responsible for all this : your mother. This is the bitch that made you into the bluepill loser so that one day a girl can easily put you in a leash . The bitch that emasculated your father and denied you of any masculine influence. That one and only bitch that you had no choice but to trust : your feminist mother.
That's naive. We believed because we WANTED to believe. Because, like it or not, the Disney fairy tale resonates with us on a very low level. Because the relationship for life is something we do want, even if it's ultimately unfeasible.
No shit. This doesn't address the main issue that this sort of shit shouldn't be pushed when it leads to nothing but failure and distress for a male as he grows up. The hard truth is what counts, and it's the difference between being a successful, fit male who lands pussy as opposed to some fat/scrawny manchild who plays xbox all day, smokes weed, jacks off to porn, etc.
It's very intetesting to me that I don't see my mom like that. Mom was actually great for my red pill mindset. How you might ask?
Simple. She never cared about me. Never went out of her way to help me or let me know she cared, because she didn't. I was a burden to her from what I can remember. I'm number 2 of six kids. The oldest was special, the sister after me was her most favorite, the rest of us were burdens, me being the least appreciated and cared about.
She would take from me, money from birthdays and farm work for neighbors would vanish into her purse for safe keeping. I learned not to trust my mom early on. I knew her tells when she lied. Mom often said I was weak, I'd get hurt doing manly shit like playing football. She said I'd have no chance with girls because other guys worked out, despite the fact I was the strongest kid in school and could whup everyone easily, after I started working toward that goal in 8th grade. She disregarded everything I did, all my accomplishments were irrelevant, I didn't matter. She told me not to go for the good looking girls, advising me to chase the fatties. Her attempts to turn me blue were met with disdain and amusement.
What is the consequences of this kind of mom? I am independent, don't need very many people in my life. I learned how to do things on my own rather than get help, because no help ever arrived and I had to fight for every achievement where others were supported by their family. I am very strong, well educated, observant, resilient, and extremely persistent. I've become the baddest motherfucker in the valley. Not because mommy didn't love me, but because I wanted to do things in life and had to do it not only alone, but while being held back and actively discouraged. If I wanted it I had to fight damn hard to get it, then fight hard to keep it.
Contrast my oldest brother and my sister to me, they've done nothing in life, achieving very little, and had to have help their entire lives.I'm 46 and still doing shit that amazes people.
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Mom wasn't anywhere near my biggest problem growing up. That older brother and my dad wreaked hell upon me for 16 years. Dad and I get along good now, he knows I know what the hell I'm doing. I don't talk to my older brother at all, never will again. Mom died a couple years ago, and I was ok with her not giving a damn about me, just how it was. Didn't need her anyway after I was old enough to feed myself, started cooking around 12.
I really don't care if they think I'm stupid and have no idea what I've done in my life, I didn't do it to impress them.
I would add that I don't think it's feminism - my mother had no feminist influences but still raised me in the way you describe.
"no feminist influences." explain how this is possible?
Grew up in a conservative catholic country in the 1970s. For example then, women had to give up working when they got married.
I'm 16. Thank god I found TRP.
Oh, bullshit.
Nature is what we were put on this earth to rise above.
And with experience you more quickly see things aren't working when they aren't.
It's an expectations thing today... people expect too much happiness.
You think back to before the Child Support Laws and women were constantly on edge because any slight screw up on their part and they would get booted out of the house and forced into being an Old Maid.
There is no fear now... no fear, no sexual tension...
So boredom is the true root of cheating.
Access to resources is too easy. (for women)
Make life dangerous and people get loyal in a hurry.
Like Machiavelli wrote:
This part:
"...as long as you succeed they are yours entirely"
...is where the Beta Bucks gets fooled.
To be fair, in the past most countries required that you have a good reason to legally divorce, such as infidelity. So, a "slight screw up" would not be a valid reason to get a divorce... unless by "slight screw up" you meant cheating.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting that if dinner was served and the husband noticed a slight blemish on his glass she should be thrown out on the street.
Something that today is considered "normal" (like cheating) would be taken as a screw up.
The fallout from a 'fearful' relationship gone awry compared to a 'loving' relationship is much more dreadful. There's just so much ammo with the other party now for exploiting the abusive relationship script and lining up knights in shining armor. So, I'm not sure if fear is the thing to go for, unless you really are in such a position of power where no one can touch you.
Dread Game is fear.
So taking our 95% success rate 1800's era we see that:
Women could not own property.
Women often lost the children in a divorce since they were owned by the husband.
Women faced either being an Old Maid or a prostitute and were assured a low status after divorce.
Women were heavily shamed for bad behavior. ("The Scarlet Letter")
...so there was much fear.
Through great fear women find great sexual tension... so they "loved" their stronger masculine polarity husband even if he was ordinary just because of the situation.
I say embrace the modern trend, it's not going anywhere anytime soon
Devil may care attitude, OP exemplifies it. My LTR is 8 years in almost. And it will be too bad if/when it ends. But I don't dreat it any more than I dread my own death,
inevitability
It will happen either way, and that was touched on in the OP. Women will re-write history as they see fit.
This needs to be understood. I've seen far to many cases of people who choose to believe something happened when it didn't. And it is a choice, don't forget that either. We may not realize we can control our emotions, but we can and if we aren't going to learn that than we are among the lowest of the low, as life appears as something that just happens.
I've had an ex that loved me, then hated me, then left and hated me for well over a year. Now she's contacting me telling me how gentle and loving I was when we dated. Shes completely teeter-tottered her memories. The issue there is that she's still seeing in black or white, as I was neither gentle throughout much of the relationship but nor did I not care. Regardless, hopefully therapy helps her, because I won't be
He means given out, right? He's just saying being feared is better than being loved, right? The way he uses the word "dispense" is what throws me off.
What does this mean? As long as you're a successful person, people will continue to "love" you?
What need? This has thrown me off as well. So, for a person that is "loved", people will be nice to you only if you aren't immediately needed? And then, when you are needed, they become bossy towards you?
Can someone clarify this to me?
Yes.
Machiavelli is saying Dread Game is essential for a LTR.
Being beta and having no Frame will doom a relationship.
Men love women from above.
A little over a week ago I was cheated on for the first time. As I was reading through this post it is amazing how accurate this is. I'm glad this is out there so others can get ahead of their own unfortunate situations
Another sign is her vocabulary. New words which no one from your social circle ever use.
Changes in vocabulary may come from new coworkers, newly made friends or even women's magazines starting out new fads.
They usually tell you about new coworkers and new friends, so you can make some inference
Sidebar material right here
I've been the guy who a girl has cheated on her boyfriend with. I've also been cheated on before, it's awful. She was emotionally cheating on me with the guy our entire relationship, and then they banged 2 months after I LTR'd her. She kept it a secret from me for 10 months before she finally spilled the beans. Our relationship was already a wreck by then because I always felt insecure around her...but I could never put my finger on what it was. Turns out that's because she was trying to cover up the fact that she was cheating on me the whole time. My brain subconsciously picked up on this and knew there was something wrong, something big she was keeping from me.
Of course when the guilt finally caught up to her after 10 months, she trickle truthed me. But at least she admitted that it was 100% her fault and never tried to blame me for it.
Ah trickle truth... and suddenly I'm jolted back to reminiscing on the moment I realised my last LTR (and hopefully last one I'll ever have) was doomed as me and my ex were driving to meet some friends across states and the trickle truth starts pouring out of her as I'm driving, and I barely avoid getting in a wreck on the interstate because of a CUNT. Got worked up thinking about it just now, then I remembered I'm single and palmed my balls like the fucking badass I am. Thanks trp
It would be awesome and helpful if you pointed out what some of those things were that your brain picked up on. What do you look back on now and it seems like obvious signs?
Good post. Reminded me why I'm not in a relationship and enjoy casual sex over LTRs.
Preach. I'll never be in a LTR, not interested.
You both are doing it wrong imo. Why not LTR and keep plates. Having a "girlfriend" always increases the number of hoes you have, plus its like a fortress of solitude because you can have sex if your plates aren't handy. This is they way nature intended it.
Too much work. I'm not into LTRs. All I want from a woman is to fuck me, and then I want her to leave me alone. Like a prostitute.
Because these two things go against one another by their very nature, unless you're in one of those cucked "open relationships."
This is extremely well-written and quite accurate, and should probably be sidebarred if by some miracle there's still room.
However, there is one part you got wrong:
There are two kinds of cheating men.
The second type is more common than you might think. Women are puzzled by this:
Man: "She meant nothing to me, dear."
Woman: "Ewwww, that makes it worse!"
But here's what each party is really thinking:
Woman: "How could you violate our sacred trust over someone who didn't even mean anything to you? That means you don't care at all about our relationship!" Men: "Sperm is cheap and disposable. For me, the sacred trust is giving commitment, not sex. Hell, I'll fuck anyone female, disease-free and decently attractive, so long as she's not a horrible toxic bitch."
The man is trying to explain that the relationship is not in danger, he just wanted a little variety in his diet.
The woman thinks the relationship is in danger, because even someone he cares for so little can make him cheat.
I recommend that men lay the groundwork and psychologically prepare their woman beforehand so she understands this. Use trickle truth methods. Start with jokes and work from there.
Few observations of my own
I have fucked women who were perfectly happy in their relationship and still fucked around. They have needs that cannot be met by anyone not even George clooney or Brad Pitt. Simply put they just need new dick once in a while. It may even be from someone with less SMV than their LTR.
So basically, you are always going to be cheated on if you commit. always. So I'd you don't wanna be a cuck, don't get into LTRs or serious commited relationships.
There is one point in your post that I disagree with:
All women (especially in the west) have the potential to cheat/be cheaters.
The first thing that is required is for them (women) is to believe that they have Choices, either real or perceived and then it is only a matter of Opportunity
Mainstream media is now a flagrant female ego inflating propaganda machine that has given women a highly distorted view of their worth regardless of where they actually stand in the SMP
Add the legions of thirsty Betas on Social Media and Dating sites and even an HB 2 Hambeast will believe she has Choices.
After that point it is only a matter of time before a women will seek out the Opportunity to cheat. The reason can be as simple as sleeping with a male she perceives as having a much higher SMV than her, to the highly calculated branch swing to a wealthy BetaBux and/or pretty much any permutation in between.
tldr: A woman (any woman) will cheat when she believes that she has Choices and then it is only a matter of creating Opportunity
Sickening isn't it? Just little old you fighting against social constructs and female nature?
It kinda feels like fighting multiple tanks with a slingshot.
At least you know you have the slingshot. And you can see the tanks. Most men can't.
Agreed. Now I know what I'm working with, even if it's bullshit. Knowing trumps being oblivious everytime.
Now you can dictate your next move.
As long as you realize the situation then there is no fighting required. You recognize the potential and structure your life/goals/mission around yourself and not your partner.
Believe it or not, there are a few women left that are constrained by a moral code. Don't know how you'd find one for certain, though.
I would say that rather than a"Moral Code", there are women who by circumstance, upbringing/religion,ect. , have their perception of Choice constrained in some way. As is often demonstrated when women from other cultures/countries move here to the states and eventually abandon the constraints of their former situation.
Incorrect. It's with someone she perceive as having a much higher SMV than you.
This is why TRP advocates self improvement. The goal is to not get cheated on. The goal is to attain such a high SMV that she wouldn't have much options to cheat on you with.
Then again, SMV is percieved by her. So not much you can do about that.
I thought the goal wasn't to not get cheated on but to expect it so you can easily fall back on your other plates with little regret.
That's the supposed mindset. Like I said at the end, your perceived value is not dependent on you but up to her.
Goals varies for each individual. Shooting for LTR is considered the hard mode compared to just simply enjoying the decline.
Point conceded and yes, it is such a variable equation because on a bad day (for the man being cheated on) a woman may be angry and sleep with a relatively low SMV person because on that day she feels her partner has a much lower SMV because of some perceived slight to her ego
As a person who has been cheated on and still in anger, what did you do to help move on? You clearly explained the process of the cheating and the destruction afterwards but what would you say about the thought process of the cheater and the victim down the road?
I still missed the person that cheated on me and sadly it has made my perception into believing that women in general are not Snowflakes and if anything are worst than males capable of being more deceptive and manipulative.
I've grown angry and have become even more cynical than ever before. I feel like no matter what you are truly alone in this world. What have your thought process on yourself as the victim and what a cheater now thinks? Does the cheater feel bad that they did this and think of their former partner that they cheated on?
Get rid of everything that reminds you of her. Every single thing. Find and start a new hobby that you can think about instead. Time. Time heals all wounds.
And no women don't have the moral agency to feel bad about their actions. If they feel bad at the moment about themselves then they'll project this as feeling bad about their actions. Never ever can you get back with a cheater. They'll never be able to respect you if you do. Cut your losses and move on.
We all die alone.
This. Understand how your reward system works - dopamine. Right now, your reward system is still aligned to the ex. A new hobby will provide a new source of reward. e.g. lifting.
Conversely, this is also explains why a woman with no hobbies is a red flag. Either 1) they're boring as fuck. Or 2) MEN are their hobby (as defined by the 1st bullet point in the types of cheating women in the OP).
You are truly alone in the world. The only people on your side is family if you are lucky. You need to accept that. A woman can be a temporary ally but most are just there for comfort and short escapes from life.Nothing more.
Accepting this is the world is how I got over the anger of being cheated on. Time gave me perspective. . It really gave me a chance to see her for who she is. I realized that who I thought she was was a lie. A Projection of who I wanted her to be. The real her is dumb and boring when she doesn't have a cock in her mouth.
This is an incredible post. Thank you for sharing your experiences (21yo here)!
Exceptional post and it matches both my experiences as a cheater and being cheated on.
The only thing Ill add is that many cheating wives ( at least the ones I have bedded) dont really hate their husbands as much as they lack respect for them. All tingles, tension, and drama are gone. If the dope provides well then she considers him a friend. Even a best friend.
Obviously, the solution is to be Alpha Fucks. And if you do go the LTR route just know its not permanent and when she exhibits disloyalty, its not personal so dont take it that way.
TLDR..never trust a bitch and never let her get comfy and you will be ok
When a cell phone that was always 'face up' mysteriously starts to get left 'face down'.
Had an ex do a clever thing that was somewhat opposite:
turn on notifications for everything so that your phone whistles and pops upon: 1. texts, 2. voicemails, 3. facebook private messages, 4. facebook posts to your wall, 5. emails on several accounts including ones that get junk mail, and 6. pinterest stuff.
This way the thing is constantly going off and you become desensitized to it.
Can't believe I stayed with a woman so dumb that she would leave her phone not muted next to her at night and have this thing going off like a christmas tree. In reality, she had few close friendships and wanted to seem popular, I think.
However, she was a shady person and with her phone set up, there is no way I would know anything. Also, she was probably trying to mess with my head.
What a weird person she was and me an idiot to be with her more than 1 hour.
Good post.
You brought some thing to my attention that makes me curious.
How likely is it for the victim of an affair become the one who cheats in later relationships?
Unfortunately, no statistics could be found through Google to show this...everything is centered on the "once a cheater, always a cheater" theory.
It is likely. Look what happens in TRP.
We come here, broken and fucked up. Learn to not get attached because we always expect to be cheated on again. We learn theories that help us get detached.
For example: Women don't love the same way as men, briffaults law, shit tests etc. Regarding shit tests, we all learn this because if we took shit tests seriously, they would hurt us emotionally.
For all you know they could be serious. TRP is kind of like an emotional coping tool. It also helps us to not get attached.
That being said, who's more likely to cheat?
edit: Therefore, similar things happen to women who get cheated on. They learn to not get attached.
The first named that popped into my head was a long time beauty in my eyes, Halle Berry.
After her latest divorce, which she claimed she was abused and that her now ex husband was not fit to be around their child; her first husband, David Justice who was a superstar baseall player from the Atlanta Braves tweeted the following:
Here is her second husband R&B singer Eric Benet responding to the texts above, that same day:
Even one of the hottest and most sought after women in the world was not above playing the victim.
The higher her status, the more incentive to protect it at the expense of others.
Wow. This brings the years-long pity-party for Jen Aniston after Brad Pitt upgraded into clear perspective.
Yep. This post and the "lightswitch effect" have huge implications for allegations of spousal and child abuse during divorce as well.
It's just female pluralism being at work. In the relationship she considers you beta and will look for sexual release elsewhere. While fucking her she considers you alpha and will look for emotional commitment elsewhere.
They are each others polar opposites and women will always swing along with the pendulum. That's why you should never enter a relationship believing any of the crap women try to sell you. It's just a trick to chain you down.
Cheating is only bad if you are the one having misguided expectations and views. When you are sitting at home while your girlfriend is getting mouthfucked by some guy- it makes you the loser. When you're equally plowing a wench things smooths out.
Everyone's satisfied.
Women and their cheating script (Link to previous TRP post)
All women have to have two men. To compare. Other guy to fantasize about and busy her mind. I think the honeymoon phase is where a woman is so excited by a guy she can get by with just one. That's what, 6 months. If you dont think this is true, I think your the guy that doesn't know about the other guy on her mind. Ex bf or new guy from work. Always 2 guys.
And of the two, only Chad gets to keep his dignity.
Well written. Thoughts on people cheating "just out of boredom". I.e. rewarding relationship, physical/emotional needs met, but life is too short to just sleep with the same people for the rest of it?
This is so spot on. Very well said, my friend. Been there, done that... know a few guys who have been through the same. All the stories are alike. Every detail. Then you read the thousands of similar cases online... yep, all the same.
People are meat robots. Push their buttons in a particular order, and you get the same response. It's our innate programming. Nobody likes to hear that.
It takes constant effort to not let the car (your life) go off the road and into a ditch. Gotta keep your hands on the wheel at all times. The car naturally swerves to the right. That's what they have those rumble strips for. For a lot of people, proper driving is too much work. It's way easier to throw your hands in the air and yell "Wheeeeee!", and ignore the rumble strips as the car does flips and lands upside down in a ditch.
""Cheating" no longer particularly angers me,"
Same. I've replaced that word with "excitement without you" and it doesn't bug me at all anymore. I too can find excitement somewhere else, and the word loses its power. It isn't loaded anymore
These are some of the biggest red flags, especially the first one. Women love using the term "friends" to hide the "friends with benefits" aspect.
Agreed. Gaslighting is the worst aspect of the whole thing. If you're the one being cheated on, you will be made to feel as if you're wrong, untrusting. Essentially, the whole thing will be flipped into YOU simply being an insecure, untrusting asshole, all spoken with some other guy's cum still in that lying mouth.
Thank you so much for this.
I would only add one thing: if you are not into being a cuckold, accept the fact that one day 'your' woman will very likely not be 'your' woman in the future.
She may cheat, she may not, but either way she may lose respect and love and interest for you. When this happens, you must end it. Whether you do it directly or indirectly, you must detach emotionally and be your own man entirely. Make your own decisions. Make your own plans. Give no fucks. Do you. If you don't, it could literally kill you.
If you aren't mentally prepared for this reality, you are lost and so is your relationship. Love as freely and as hard as you can, but never forget that one day you will have to next the one that you love today. As soon as you forget that, you are done. You may as well put on 100 lbs and dribble beer down your gut while eating fried chicken and watching Maury.
Jesus Christ. This hit so close to home, I read this post twice. Everything in quotes send a flashback to my ex saying those exact words. I even remember losing my mind of "I love you, but I am not in love with you."
Can someone sticky this? This shit hits the nail right on the head.
If you even suspect that she's cheating then it's almost certain that she is. Been through this, caught her by installing software called Desktop Shark to monitor the shared laptop and caught her almost immediately.
Endless weeks of what I now know to be trickle-truthing and almost RP textbook levels of behaviour. Being a bluepill beta I forgave her and she never even stopped seeing the guy.
Once a cheat always a cheat, if she's done it once then I absolutely guarantee she will do it again.
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"That doesn't count" are easily the most dangerous words in a woman's vocabulary.
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I would have to disagree with you on
those who are not getting their emotional or physical needs met.
I have been in a LTR for 1 year now, and has been a rewarding experience. In my opinion she meets all my needs. We have a highly sexualized relationship, she never annoys me and gives me lots of space. Long story short, I would never stay in a relationship I was unhappy in, however.
I love the chase. That feeling when another girl wants you, that flirtatious push and pull in a conversation. The fact that when you walk in the room she can't stop looking at you. I love this.
Have I cheated? No. Would I seek out someone to cheat on with? No. If I was in a situation and a girl I found attractive was throwing herself at me, and there being no consequences, I can see myself going with it.
You're after the physiological thrill (i.e. the rush). So he hit the nail on the head still mate.
Good.
You sure?
Does that not apply to women?
Shh... Reason and logic aren't allowed here. It's an echo chamber for bitter male hamsters where all women are evil and all men are poor innocent victims.
Yes... I float, wood floats. Wood burns, witches burn. Therefore I am a witch!
Cheat or be cheated.
Get good at lying to girls ... and for girls.
Get good at cheating with girls ... and on girls.
Get good at stealing girls ... and from girls.
All in the name of my own self-interest.
Because ALL is fair in love and war.
Sexual strategy is amoral.
I agree completely. Some dudes have this idea of being "nice, moral guy alpha."
Exactly. Women are often the most upset when their partner plays by the exact same rules they play by. In order to feel in control they need to trick their partner into playing fair so they can cheat. Cheat yourself and you throw everything in a loophole.
She will implode on herself.
Do you still agree with you thoughts in that link? I'd be interested to see since its from a while ago.
Wow thanks for writing this post at the right time. Much respect Atm I'm getting the " your always this " " you never loved me" " you never care" and the part that " I feel sad for myself " Shit you think I hit the bust and am about to go to the next phase which might be the cheating part... Or shud I try and fix Er up? I could use some advice based on experience . My main priority tho is building my business right now and that's why I haven't been taking care of the pony as often ..
Excellent post and analysis of the cheater.
I've also seen the cheater throw infidelity accusations at the victim out of nowhere (projecting their own sins). They also deliberately start drama like asking huge favors for you no reasonable person would grant.
For example, my cheating ex knew I wouldn't lend her my rental car because she didn't have a license and wasn't on the paperwork as a driver anyway, so guess what she suddenly developed the need for constantly?
Everyone cheats - you just avoid the environment if you truly care about the person.
+
Yeah, cheaters script is real.
Whether she's creating or not, if you think she is there's a problem. It doesn't matter if the problem is with you being insecure or her being untrustworthy it's time to get out.
Have you ever been in a relationship where cheating didn't happen?
I don't believe any man has. They just ddon't know they were cheated on.
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Made an account just to reply to me eh? But it ddoesn't matter. Even if you don't trust a woman at all (which you never should trust them), they'll usually still find a way to cheat.
Lol, you nailed it! Great insight.
I know this comment is late to the party and only echoes what I'm sure others have said, but as an older guy with a lot of experience this is an excellent objective analysis and description of a ubiquitous phenomenon. You've clearly been able to fully remove any emotional aftershocks from your thinking and have presented a clear yet comprehensive piece. Excellent work, I thank you for your stellar contribution and implore all guys to read and digest this write up. I have nothing to add or critique I think you've done a superb job here.
Cheers.
I didn't want this post to end, what an incredible read. Thank you for sharing this.
Well, if there is any truth to it, then my ex definitely cheated on me and blamed me for screwing up the relationshit.
DUDE, you nailed this 110%.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
Oh man. Gaslighting.
My ex told me I was crazy and that my anxiety was ruining the relationship. I wanted her to be right badly enough that I went and got a Xanax prescription. She new I was going, and let me, even though she obviously knew I was right and was fucking around on me.
Great post. Painful to read in that it's reminded me of it all, but great post.
That's just chump talk. Sorry for the insult, but apparently you have enough game to pull random women but not enough to keep them.
Those random women you're pulling are the low quality type that always cheat, so it's on you if you keep filling your life with them.
This is the sage voice of experience and wisdom. This is a piece of promethean fire, bought up to us by OP and translated into plain english. It should be on the sidebar. OP should be promoted.
tried to upvote more than once but reddit wouldn't let me :(
You should be careful when defining cheating, which in this case, is synonymous with non-monogamy. There can be completely faithful relationships with multiple partners as long there has been some agreement or contract prior. The institution of the monogamous marriage and the nuclear family may be in total shambles, but that's not the only option for a relationship and don't let it be. There are endless options.
However, I do digress on the phone protection. My ex demanded to now the Pin of my phone and I'm seriously against sharing that kind of information to anyone. Be it my own blood relation. No compromise on that.
I've had multiple friends (women and men, don't forget) who've played this line.
One girl in particular that I was roommates with just Light Switched one day. She found a bullshit reason, no matter how small, to spin every positive experience that she had with her boyfriend into a negative one.
He doesn't thank her for doing the dishes... if he loved her he would respond to her texts sooner... she's just never brought it up because she wanted to make it work!
Light Switch
" the glass is already broken "
"She is always viewing the world as it relates to her, so for her to like you, she has to enjoy the feels she has when she is with you."
great stuff
Wow. Very insightful piece op. I've just split up with my girlfriend, a mutual agreement though in truth I agreed for her. Having read this I can say I now know what that deep sinking feeling is like. She had given up and changed, going out, drinking with friends whilst I was working away. The signs were there, I just didn't see them. Just destroyed my sense of closure.
Can someone elaborate on this please? I had this happen to me and I still don't fully understand the why.
It is the same reason women lie about their "number".
It is the same reason they put up last minute resistance before having sex on a first date.
They are concerned with their status, specifically perceived social status. Being outed as a cheater publicly, is a shameful thing to be labeled. So the hamster goes on the attack, anything to make her the victim in the situation. Because in her mind, it has to have been your fault - there is no length her mind will not run to to make it not her fault. And if that means running your name into the mud in order to satisfy her ego - you can bet that's what she will do.
I have a question that has been on my mind for years, and the question that requires some sort of an answer if I want to ever have a wife/family or even an LTR. PLEASE try to help us all out:
If this is all true, what is a recipe for a happy LTR? If there is no fidelity , can you truly love a woman in the way we all want to love? How do we look at this properly ? Alphas of the world , help.
This is why dating losers, single moms, and chicks with low-self esteem is a bad, bad idea. Once the initial high of being in a relationship wears off, their true self becomes more visible to them and this is painful. Like an injured dog, they blame you for the pain. And seek out the thing that made them feel better early on in your relationship: a new guy. That can't be you anymore, which is why your efforts to "fix what's wrong" are bound to fail.
Cheating is like a business client breaking off an agreement, or getting a quote from you only to use it to bargain with your competitor. It's part of the game and if you are not robust to it then tough shit, you should know better than to be so dependent.
Question is why are you with her if she isn't doing any effort already? Gym is a must unless she has some sport(s) as hobby. Dressing well too.
What if she already did this when you met her?
This. All this. It's just... educational. That's really the only word I can find in my vocabulary.
But this part?
'effing brilliance. Thank you.
I was once told "Don't use the words Never, Ever or Always, you're setting yourself up to be disappointed or proven wrong".
Do you think a woman would cheat if she's in a LTR with a guy who makes her extremely to be with him, but due to conflicting schedules, only get to spend an hour or two max a day with each other?
Dear Lord...
This perfectly describes my last LTR.
The confusion, the pain when my gut feeling turned out to be right... Never again!
Le sigh
It is my earnest belief that if you have ever commited to a monogamous relationship with a woman, you have been chested on.
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Daaamn so that's what all this blaming I've been getting out of no where this week. " you never care " " your always this " " you never loved me " ect " your always mean " Shiet I think it has begun... Now I'm getting messages like " yup" " idc" " I don't wanna see you " " don't call " Oh snap, should I be making moves or laying back enjoying life go by ? What do you suggest
Just do your own thing. If you find out she's teaching, dump that bitch without thinking twice.
It's probably because you were inadequate sexually.
Another post on cheating.. How helpful.