http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/18/news/economy/nba-player-jeff-teague-live-with-parents/index.html
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/05/24/for-first-time-in-modern-era-living-with-parents-edges-out-other-living-arrangements-for-18-to-34-year-olds/
"So many people know someone who has moved back in with their parents. Any stigma that used to exist isn't there anymore," says Kim Parker, director of social trends research at Pew.
The "live at home" trend is especially popular among men under 35. A whopping 35% of young adult men in America now live with their parent(s), versus just 29% of young women. Young men are delaying marriage and all the usual trappings that come with it like home buying and kids. The main reason? Money, or the lack of it.
"Men who don't have jobs are much more likely to live at home," says Parker, and "men without jobs are much less likely to be married."
I see that last paragraph as being the most important point. As more and more men are squeezed out of an ever shrinking job market, or a market more geared towards women friendly jobs, more and more men will stay at home and not get married.
Funnily, it is still lower for young women living at home at 29% 35vs . More often having that partner to lean on, generall richer and older? Or having access to high paying jobs when youger? Yet still we hear about this wage gap and male priviledge. This also means the 'dateable' man pool gets smaller and smaller as well. (Unless they're the hot bad boy and all they do is work out and sponge of the parents,but then its really a fuckbuddy thing). No income, no moving out, no marriage, no kids, goodbye natural birth rate, hello immigration replacement to keep the pension ponzi going.
A few things to note. Young people this era have much higher costs of everything than our parents and grandparents ever had. Housing in some parts of the country is 4 times the cost as it was 25 years ago. Most of my dad's friends bought homes when they were under $110,000 and now they are all $450k+. These middle aged men could not afford to buy the homes they have lived in for 25-30 years with the jobs they currently have.
Houses in my area are being bought by married couples who both partners are professionals so their household income is $120k+. I had a few friends that were saving money from the time they got out of high school and were able to buy a house for very low prices immediately after the crash in 2007.
Everything is much more expensive. Food costs significantly more, health care is a few multiples of what it was 25 years ago. My health insurance is $220 per month. 30 years ago comparable insurance was somewhere around $30-$40 per month. A weekly food budget of $100 today has a comparable spending power to about $30 did in 1991.
Also note. Saving money for a house is next to impossible because your money gains almost nothing year to year. With absolutely no financial literacy, just putting money in the bank, people could get 10-16% interest in the 1980's with some people briefly getting 19%. Save $100 and a year later it will be worth $115. Now if you save $100 a year later it will be worth $101. To really make it sound fucked, in order to make $1000 per year in interest, at 15% you just need a little under $7000 in the bank, and at the peak interest of 19% you just needed a little over $5000. Regular simps actually made this sort of interest just by putting their money in the bank. But today to make $1000 per year in interest you need anywhere from $95,000 to $110,000 in the bank.
Really extrapolate this out. The annual income in the 1980s was about $16,000 per year. If someone had $112,000 in the bank they would make enough on interest that would be equivalent to the average working person's annual pay. They could literally retire as their interest made them enough money they did not have to work. It was possible, and many people did this where they would work to get enough money in the bank and then have the interest cover their mortgage. This did not require any risk as everything was FDIC insured and did not require any sort of financial decision making other than putting money in a bank and keeping it there. Today this value is about $53,000. In order to make $53,000 at bank interest you need well over $5 million in the bank.
So working comparable jobs makes considerably less money, there are jobs which paid $10 per hour in 1991 that pay maybe $12-$13 per hour today. The basic costs are all much higher (food, energy, healthcare, insurance, education). Taxes are considerably higher on certain things (sales tax has gone up across the board). Saving your money in a bank offers almost no upside as interest rates are so incredibly small so gaining wealth via simple savings is much more difficult.
There needs to be an economic correction. It is inevitable. That which goes on forever will eventually stop.
"There needs to be an economic correction."
An old time friend of the family has been talking about this. He calls it an "adjustment period."
Can you elaborate on this? What would a correction look like? A depression?
Great post btw.
The federal reserve has been propping up this phony economy for a long term, and by letting the market do its job, there would be a crash but likely recovery within a few years
I wonder if Yellen will let the bubble pop if Trump wins.
As someone who is only economically literate in the most loose sense of the term I tend to believe the strength of the middle class prior to the start of this century was likely the exception, not the rule. For example the interest rates being talked about above occurred in basically a 4 year period from 79-83, although interest rates from the 70s to 00s were much higher than they are now, outside of that ultra high peak something around 5-8% was more typical and further those are all treasury bond interest rates, not the more useful liquid interest rates your bank offers on savings accounts (which are so low that you can essentially wholesale discount them).
Treasury bond interest rates are so low right now because they are set by the Fed and (according to the Fed, they certainly know better than I, but I'm sure you'll get a spectrum of opinions) that is an intentional strategy to moderate the US economy, which some may argue has been working fairly well, even counting the crash in '08 the US economy has essentially become continuously more stable overall since the Fed's inception.
The bigger issue would be the loss of effective financial instruments for people in the lower and middle class, which has an outsized impact on young people (as there are proportionally fewer upper class young people, for obvious reasons). I don't think there are many people that would claim that saving 8x the median income (in 2016 dollars that would be around $400,000) should qualify you to make a stable exit from the workforce, the impacts to the total base of US labor would be catastrophic if that were the case.
A large dimension of the discussion has been moving from a resource unlimited to a resource limited economy throughout the world. Global land utilization, rare mineral utilization, various fuel utilization is relatively high as a percentage of those resources on offer, which is a decidedly new phenomena of globalization. Economic expansion is more focused on innovation than capturing resources now - for instance real estate as it pertains to land is zero sum, the only way to capture value from real estate is to make the existing land more valuable by building something there or by going and finding some land nobody owns yet. Obviously we can't do the second one any longer, but we see the same phenomena happening with things like oil, where there aren't massive cheap oil deposits being stumbled upon anymore.
A lot of the "easy" innovation to capture has been captured, the next step (in my, again, economically stupid by a lot of people's measure, head) is to leverage the global workforce via improved skilled labor participation. We have 7 billion people on Earth and only a tiny fraction of them are involved in fields where their brain is what qualifies them (as opposed to their physical labor). A lot of the technological explosion over the last century could be cast in the light of the population explosion over same, and improved communication providing a better "social network" of intelligence to apply to problems. Computational tools continue that fight but until the Nerd Rapture (aka singularity) hits we will need to continue to feed the economy - on some fundamental level, with raw human grey matter.
Edit: to kind of head of what some people are saying here, I don't really think we should be laying this at the feet of the older generations. Some of the issues that have arisen from the modern economic alignment would have taken a crystal ball to predict, and although the 40+ voting block is still massive and strong, it is hard to complain when the 18-39 voting block barely ever shows up to the polls or produces attractive political thinkers.
And free trade is a touchy subject - yes it hurts the US economy, but it is a massive boon to the global economy, which ends up raising QoL back in the US (our lives would be shittier if there was no free trade, but life in other countries would be comparatively much much shittier) so come down on that issue where you will.
I really think you laid that out great, expounded well on some important points and offered what I think a big key to the cause and solution. The only way I differ from your brief exposition, is I think the FED is near criminally inept.
This is a very common perspective that I'm totally undecided on, I don't know enough macro-economic theory to really say what I would do differently than them. The thing that I see all the time is the Fed has radically different goals implicit in their actions than what a man on the street would say are the right goals. Things like holding a steady rate of inflation and targetting certain numbers for GDP growth provide a stable economic backdrop but are completely insensitive to the "actual" things people want out of the economy (increases in their purchasing power, for example). If I ever get the time I'll go back and read some stuff by/with Greenspan/Bernanke about how they see the role of the Fed and the service they are trying to provide, because I think that fundamental disconnect is poorly understood, and it generates a lot of negative perception for the Fed.
I'm no Fed apologist, particularly the fact that Ron Paul's "Audit the Fed" proposals get met with (essentially) laughter from the powerbrokers in this country is a real headscratcher for me, that sort of opaque operation just smells bad, but I'm no where near claiming that the Fed is bad at its job. I think it is just important to understand what the Fed is trying to do - which is stablize the economy. The fact that their method of stabilization has massively favored the people who are holding the capital is a negative, but if that is clearly outside their goalset, it shouldn't reflect poorly on them.
You had me up until you said the Fed knows better than you. A ferret on meth knows more about the economy than the Fed. Either they are the most inept people on the planet or the Illuminati/nwo nutters have it right.
The Fed was started by 100 individual shareholders(some cases a family held one share).
The purpose of the Fed (and other banks and national banks this cartel owns) is to simply have everyone in debt to them and use credit as money. Money is already debt that the governments promise to pay you. In the future it will be in reverse:
Wage salve owes debt of parents or ancestor or failed in debtors government he is a citizen of. Banks own everything. What he earns with his labour is : a little credit.
Even less than when he was paid in debt and MUCH less than when he was paid in trade.
Paying in trade or without credit (I fix your plumbing and you fix my car), will be the most serious crime in 30 years.
great read. If you have the time, I am requesting a post that elaborates more of your financial theory along with reading material.
Probably "The Greatest Depression".
If you look at the amount of debt today. People focus on public debt which is catastrophic enough in most developed economies, but the private debt is all far more severe. You also have to consider the dodgy financial instruments or derivatives that might number $10 or $100 to every $1 of debt. That's why subprime crashed the economy. Everyone looked at the bad sub prime and was preparing for a $200 billion loss but in reality there were $6 of derivatives for every $1 of bad debt. So it ended up being a $1.2 trillion crisis.
Just Deutsche bank has more derivatives on its books than the GDP of the entire global economy.
So you have all this bad debt - the central banks started printing money and slashed interest rates. Most of this money they created went into speculation and driving up asset prices and share buy backs. The central banks can't stop because if they didn't prop asset prices up then a lot of what the banks have on their balance sheets would be worth pennies on the dollar.
With this level of debt, putting interest rates up would be catastrophic because repayments at these interest rates are just about possible. What happens when interest rates go up to 20%? Mass default. Which would lead to debt deflation.
Another thing that also accompanied the great depression was productivity shock. Enormous amounts of labour had been automated in the 20 years before the great depression. Especially in agriculture. Its no wonder there was severe unemployment during the depression. Now we are going to see a lot of jobs automated by robots over the next 20 years.
Some really good here. And some really bad here.
For starters, your explanation of derivatives leaves a lot to be desired. I dont want to get into Hull here, but notional amount of a derivative does not equal the total risk of the derivative, which is what you have implied in your first two paragraphs. Most derivatives are constructed to lay off risk, not take it on, and with that there is a counterparty, so net risk is theoretically zero in many of these transactions.
I agree central banks over-printed money. For starters, any govt that is a debtor has huge incentive to debase its currency to repay that debt in a less valuable dollars/pesos/wampum/whatever. Printing up money is the best tax a politician can ever enact because its very stealthy. That it fucks savers is of no consequence to them.
You are also right about interest rates. Our debt payments would be absolutely crushing at 20%, ergo the govt (as a debtor) has a selfish reason to keep them low.
I dont agree with you about automation. That same stupid argument was made in the 70s regarding the proliferation of computers and how they would take away jobs. What was completely missed is that computers simply took away rote tasks and concurrently exponentially increased the productivity of workers who were now free to do other more sophisticated tasks. Now if we finally get AI that approaches human intelligence, you could be right, but IMO we are still decades away from that.
I'll sum it up. We are in this shit storm because of one reason, and that is because as good as the Framers were, capital markets were not developed enough at the time for them to foresee where the real power was going to be. With that, despite all of the checks and balances they tried to build in, at the end of the day, we have the same guys taxing who are the same guys spending who are the same guys issuing debt. A MASSIVE conflict of interest. The other MASSIVE conflict of interest is allowing the government to BOTH control the currency AND issue debt. As long as we have those two conflicts of interest in our political/financial systems, our long term equilibrium is bankruptcy. Any civilization that does not address these conflicts of interest amongst its leaders will end the same way.
It's not going to be linear. It's going to be a compounding process that starts and becomes unimaginable to humans within a few days/weeks/months/maybe years. Once the first self-aware, self-optimizing AI is created (and it might actually already exist) it's going to evolve in a way and at a speed that most humans cannot comprehend.
Automation did take away jobs. Detroit and Cleveland and the rest of the rust belt (and the millions of displaced workers whose lives and progeny were reduced) would argue that those arguments were sound. We went from a system where unions guaranteed that even average people could work hard and earn a respectable lifestyle into the modern service-based economy where, unless you've got the brainpower and the degree and the massive debt, you have very little opportunity to attain those same circumstances.
Your argument about computers is at best conjecture. Eg, to posit that a machine can become "self-aware" no matter what level its AI is at the very best pure philosophical speculation.
And of course automation took away jobs locally. Just like the car took away buggy whip jobs. The part that you're missing is that now people were working assembling the Model T. As far as what happens to those people locally - I dont give a shit. Retrain yourself to add value elsewhere. That's the market - deal with it. And for the record, brainpower isn't the primary driver of wealth creation, its self-discipline. Personally, I lost my firm and my job on Wall St in 2008. Six months later I was opening my own business in a completely unrelated field. I saw what the market was asking for and I delivered it. In fact, that is the very core message of this entire site, just with women instead of employment.
I do agree, however, with the implication that moving to a highly service based economy has significant risks. IMO services should follow manufacturing, not the other way around. The problem is as the government grows, more and more services are needed just to do business in that highly regulatory environment.
What is needed is a return to a very free-market based economy and a government with no conflicts of interest. Unfortunately, we are going full speed in the other direction, right into bankruptcy.
Economic Correction can be thought of as a rubber band releasing all built up tension.
Some times it's really easy to predict- people were calling the housing bubble and subsequent recession 2 years before it happened- that an economic correction would occur. One occurred to cause the Great Depression- people were investing money they didn't really own, effectively gambling and hoping that the investments would return favorably. They didn't often enough that many banks were taped out, causing Black Tuesday. After that people wouldn't trust banks fully for over a decade.
At the moment there's a huge number of continually escalating issues with no end in sight, most of which being the product of this collectivist political bend we've been on for a bit over 70 years. The US has accumulated so much national debt that our grand children wont be done paying it off, the US government- the Federal Reserve specifically- has been propping up the economy, individual debt just keeps going up, student loan debt keeps ballooning- that one's truly unusual because you can't escape it by filing for bankruptcy- numerous socialist leaning countries have all demonstrated that they have no remote ability to balance a budget, unemployment in the US keeps going up- people who are either unemployed and gave up finding work, or underemployed are not figured into the official statistic for some odd reason- and everyone's half way in between jeering and cheering for China.
Any number of events- probably an aggregate of them- could easily plummet the US economy- the global one for that matter- into a Depression because our economy is only as good as our word, and that word ain't really worth shit today. Granted, everyone else is either worse or basically considered dishonest as a point of daily business- EG: China.
It was a 10 year period where rates were above 8%, and a 3 year period where they were above 12%. BTW, those rates weren't a good thing. They indicated the economy was in turmoil, and there was a lot of uncertainty.
The difference today is people have accepted low rates. It's fairly easy to move to an online bank with better rates, if more people did that then banks would be forced to raise rates, rinse and repeat. The only problem is people are lazy and have multiple accounts at one institution (broker, mortgage, credit card, bank account, 401k), so most accept the low rates because of the ATM network and other such nonsense. Add in low Fed interest rates and QE. It's great for borrowers, if you can borrow.
Lots of little things are either free or so cheap, it may as well be. Electronics. My 4th grade teacher showed off his $350 calculator (today it would cost $1000). You can buy one at the dollar store ($1) or it comes free with a phone. Air conditioning. Equipment and running costs have come down so much. It's helped (really, the main reason) for the South and West to get such migration from the East and Midwest. Every car has it, every home has it. Clothes. My mom would make her own clothes (as did many), it was really expensive to were nice fashions. Today, I don't know of anyone who knows how to sew. People buy clothes to last a few months, not several years or more. In addition, clothes materials are quality are much better today. Food is basically the same price, but the shopping experience is completely different. Fresh Veggies available year round, three times the variety, too. Home delivery and can order by the internet. Can get through the check out in less than 5 minutes (it took up to 20 minutes back then, price checks, no bar codes). Can't pay with cash? You need to have an approved account with the supermarket to use your personal checks. Convenience stores open 24 hours, supermarkets open 24 hours, ATMs open 24 hours, automatic bridge/toll systems for drivers. Computers and electric keyboards, plus dead cheap cameras: you could make a movie by yourself cheaper and better quality than what was often made in 1979. You can now record and album for almost free at home. Free long distance phone calls (used to cost $3 a minute for my dad, $10 in today's money). A incredibly safe and reliable car can be had for $15,000 today with much higher quality and about the same cost.
The list goes on, but nobody today thinks of spending nearly $1,000 on a calculator. People vacation in Hawaii or Mexico, not the campsite 5 hours from home (unless you are into camping). The big craze today is PokemonGo, an augmented reality smartphone game that connects you with cloud servers, Japanese inspired animation, businesses doing advertising, social networks, and the NSA (a person in the 70's would have no idea what that sentence meant, it may as well not been in English). In the 70's the big craze was the pet rock. 'Nough said.
Didn't rates go down partly because Glass-Steagall was repealed?
Basically, the Millennial generation is fucked.
I'm 30 and I live at home. I make 10/h. Almost done getting my AS in Accounting, although that will probably be worthless in the job market.
Literally every day, I'm depressed and in the back of my mind, suicide is there. At some point, life just won't be worth living in comparison how my parents lived back in the day.
Cooler heads have always prevailed. Suicide is never the answer. Coming from a 21 year old working for corporate electric. Find away to make bank as an accountant. Become a CPA, do taxes on a consulting basis so you pay yourself first.
To become a CPA, you need a Bachelors, then a Masters, then you can take the CPA exam to get your CPA. I'm not that smart to be honest.
Just wanted to say good for you man. It's never too late to go back to college. You're already halfway to getting your bachelor's degree & from there you'll be able to re-enter the workforce to make twice what you're making now. Then from there it's merely another 2 years for your master's. Don't sell yourself short, I just graduated from a very respectable university in California, and tbh, a lot of my community college classes were just as difficult as the university ones.
30 is the new 20, and pretty soon you'll be on your way up and out
It's never too late but you do need to be realistic about the debt.
A lot of college towns that also have a CC- and this is California you're talking about; they sent IOU's to professors because the people apparently have no problem letting a bunch of degenerates run the state- will have junior professors and other low level educators working at both facilities because up till the point you hit tenure, you're treated like disposable dog shit.
Unless you got into Berkley, MIT, Harvard, etc, there's absolutely no good reason to not do everything you can at the CC level first and then transfer. It's often the same material taught by the same instructors.
Those years are going to pass any way. Find a way to be that smart.
Plus you need experience first.
My dad is a CPA and he studied for like 8 months every day. The pass rate is incredibly low.
Yup. Fuck that shit. I ain't got the time for that. Johndoessmith67 ain't 30....
Also, experience. This will be far harder than the education or the exam to find.
Get out and grind taxes for H&R or Hewitt, learn and do payroll, grunt out as much practical experience as you can, and then you need to find a local shop to get the CPA experience. Don't waste effort at a midsize or larger firm. They're looking for that 20's MACC grad who they can burn at 80 hr's a week for an average $6 per hour. Yay, Salary exempt!
Get the bachelors at a relatively cheap state school. You've already finished 50% of the degree with the associates. Take every class possible at a community college. In this job market, a BS is worth infinitely more than an AS. You don't need to get a Masters to do well man.
I got accepted into a state school, called KSU. I just don't know how to get a loan. My parents are iffy about that. Either they think I won't do well or they want to see me out of their house asap once I get my AS and get an entry level job within the accounting field or anything better than what my job is currently paying.
I do know that a BS is worth more than an AS. It might be too late for me to sign up for fall semester classes.
edit I'll probably just get my PT certification and train people till I can go to school. IDK what I want to do man...fuck.
You would be surprised. People like to make their majors seem a lot harder than they are especially if they are talking to a meat head
I don't eat that much meat...
Work in a trade. There's a huge variety of jobs that'll pay about 15 an hour starting, take about 3 months of training and only require that you're not a felon to qualify. There's a huge variety of disciplines people don't typically think of when you say, 'trades' either. Obviously there's electricians, mechanics, etc, but you can make good money for the skill grade necessary to service and repair refrigeration units, or ovens.
Not entirely sure where you see your AS in accounting going since you already know it wont end in a CPA. Frankly at this point accounting in general is staring down the axe of automation, and since it involves a huge volume of white collar jobs there's plenty of companies salivating at the idea of slicing their accounting department in half. The fallout is going to be that a lot of CPA's with a ton of experience are going to be perfectly willing to take a lower pay grade for having any job at all that's still on the market.
Or you could always go into teaching. One of the lowest IQ degrees by average. The kids are shit, and the pay's mediocre but if you can clock in and out for twenty, thirty years and you live in the right states you will get one fat retirement package.
My mom was a teacher. She retired last year. Retirement packages will be a thing of the past in a few decades. Source: Look at Detroit and a few other cities.
We're a long road from that path but cities will be delaying, delaying, and delaying till it becomes a huge ass problem.
Read enough books and practice your math enough, and you WILL be smart! You're on the right track buddy, the hustle will pay off
just do like 1 qtr at a time at a community college. That's what I am doing.
And I don't like your 'suicide is never the answer' dogma. You're fucking 21, you fucking prick. Go fuck yourself with 'nobody is allowed to commit suicide' mantra.
In existential philosophy, many philosophers agree that the last human right we'll ever battle in our lifetime is the 'end to life' right. The terminally ill in most states can't self terminate. Even though, I am not terminally ill, the 'right to die' is mine and nobody else's.
There's a reason why the state (depends on which state) wants to keep you alive. For taxes, to buy shit, to keep the economy going. If the low lives, like me, in society were to just one day, a sudden realization of our meaninglessness, to all jump a cliff, the economy would go to shit because those people are the ones that keep the economy's wheels greased.
I'm sorry to come at you like this at this time. I'm not a beta or alpha or omega or any of that stupid retarded shit. I'm an existentialist. A bodybuilder (I say this because you fucking twats seem to have the notion that a 10/10 body = getting laid). A guy meandering through life aimlessly, wondering when his life will end.
I'm not a man motivated by money but I am envy of it. In fact, I am not motivated by anything. "OH WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU GO SEE A DOCTOR AND GET SOME PILLS BRAH?" Fuck that and fuck you.
Yea not even gonna touch that....
lol my bad brah, sorry went off on a tangent. Been stressful lately (I have bronchitis).
If shit gets bad enough, join the military. Good restart point, but comes with four years of bullshit.
I wear hearing aids brah. Born technically and legally by "definition" 'deaf'.
Damn son. Touch deck you got dealt. Follow the other brothers' advice.
I was in the same boat as you. The American dream of the 50's is dead, but there is hope. Basically the previous generation fucked up all of that. The new generation has to bring it waaay back. Give up the idea of buying a house and living your life via smartphone and soc media. Build your own life as men did before feminization.
There is a lot of land in the world where you can go and no one will bother you. Go and build your own house, craft your own things and learn to make something. You have no excuse when you can sell hand made stuff online from anywhere in the world.
I can already sense the replies of "thats not realistic, I need real money, that's not proper in the current year"
Making money that can't keep up with life costs, wasting time sending in applications to so many companies is a real choice? You tube videos can teach you all you need. Start gardening now. I moved to a small seaside town in Mexico. My parents send a couple bucks to keep me fed. Its a small amount but they would be spending more if I was living with them. I live modestly here. I'm not Hispanic and had to learn Spanish real quick. It's not a soft life but I enjoy it immensely.
I really like your mentality.
Its just going to be a very different life. If you had an AS degree in accounting 30 years ago it probably would get you a job that started out at 2.5x minimum wage and full health insurance (granted this depends on where you are in America).
Yup.
I basically screwed myself out of every economic and academic opportunity to improve myself in my early 20s.
i could give you a good job/life working online, but i lived a terrible 15 years prior to myself learning about this work, so youd have to pay me for that information/sacrifice, as i only found out about this 2 years ago, TBF it was only invented 5 to 10 yrs ago
I'd be willing to pay dude.
I really hate to break it to you, but we are in the correction period. The 1950's through the 1980's was the fluke. It is all going back to the normal of human history now.
This should be upvoted more. The US economy was so great from the 1950s to the 1990s because the rest of the world basically had to rebuild its infrastructure and economic systems after world war 2. We had virtually no competition. Things are indeed back to where they should be, and where there going to stay.
nice reply. the stats are all about economic changes. many developed countries are having the same issues with decreased home ownership, the need for dual incomes, and more underemployment or longer work hours. i read on cnn that british millenials will be the first generation to make less lifetime earnings than parents.
also, i want to add that investment advice from older people who enjoyed better growth of the market and high interest savings % can't simply be applied to the current economy. i keep seeing retirement advice based on a historic average 15%/year growth as if the market will grow ad infinitum.
finally, damn i wish i could live with my parents. been on my own since 18. if i put all that rent money in retirement, i'd be done with it already.
Yeah, geezers keep telling me to invest for my retirement. Fuck that. I want to die penny-less having spent every dime living life to the fullest. I don't care if I end up eating cat food on the street when I'm old. I'll be fucking old, ugly, and dying. Who gives a fuck at that point? Really.
"I spent 80% of my money on liquor and fast women.... the rest was wasted!"
You know that money loses 75% of its value every 20 years right...
Yeah but you can look at other comparisons. A job that paid $13 in 1985 and the same job paying $15 today means that in comparison that was actually a much higher paying job back in the 1980s. Likewise health insurance that was $35 per month in 1985 was much cheaper than the same health insurance which is $235 today. College tuition that was $2500 in 1983 was far cheaper than the same college tuition that is now $19,000. A house that was $97,000 in 1982 (year my dad bought his house) is far cheaper than that same house selling for $520k a few months ago (house recently sold).
Yeah we are getting shafted no doubt
Can I get some sauce for this? My dad thinks I'm just crying that full time student working full time living on his own is stupid expensive.
He thinks I'm whining, because he did it. Which he's right, for the most part but he thinks my logic is askewed on the current economical situation. And how it was relatively more affordable for him years ago.
Go look up prices for things when your dad was your age. Especially local rents and find rent controlled apartments (sometimes he people have been there for 30 years and are paying the 1986 price or not far off it). You can also just look at college tuition prices. You can also just ask your father how much he was making when he was your age and then compare that pay to the current pay.
Historically college tuition was far cheaper across the board. Peter Schiff did a thing a while back using the price of commodities now and then to compare the cost of tuition at Yale University and it was just a few ounces of gold a long time ago and today its 10x that much.
I get what you are trying to say but you cannot present your case by just showing the cost side of inflation.
(Eg - a $16,000 salary in 1980 equals about $47,000 today. Yes, you would make more on a bank account yielding 9%, but the 16% mortgage interest rate would take quite a bite out of your purchasing power.)
Next, call me cold but I dont give a shit about people making minimum wage. If your market value is so poor that you need government regulation to increase your wage then you really need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask how you can add more value that people will want to pay for. I would say the same thing for a fool who expects to live off of interest from a fucking bank account. For God's sake educate yourself and look for investments.
Last, I agree there will be a correction, and a bigger one than most are willing to admit. It will be because of conflicts of interest in our political systems that allow the same people who tax be the same people who spend be the same people who issue debt be the same people who print money.
The low interest rate is government manipulation to get people to spend more. It is how George Bush fought off the recession right after 9/11 and created the housing bubble. The high interest rate limits how big of a loan people can get. The lower the interest rate and the larger the loan, the higher the interest rate and the smaller the loan. This is because they are limited by their monthly payment. The low interest rate jacks up the price of housing and other heavily financed goods considerably (higher education is another, and is in a bubble). The value of houses is more or less kept up by what people can get a loan for. If people can get a $400k loan then housing prices shoot up. If people only qualify for $150k then housing prices drop.
I am in agreement with you about minimum wage. But I am going to make the point of social commentary, a lot of baby boomers were total simps who got jobs that in comparison paid far higher in the 1970s and 1980s than those same jobs to today. I personally know people who were making $13 per hour at their job in 1985 (I also know their employer who hired them) and that same job today pays $15 per hour (same employer hiring new people). Yeah its more, but its not much more. The baby boomers will lead people on to think they were incredibly hard working and busted ass more than anyone else when it isn't true. They didn't particularly hustle hard. They didn't have to look for investments that required research, they just put their money in the bank.
I wish $100 savings netted 1% interest. It's more like .01%
I see this more as a symptom of our generation's decreasing job availability and ability to buy into property. We've been priced out of homes and fucked over by low wages by the baby boomers and X'ers. It's income inequality. We will earn less and be poorer than the generation before us, more people will live with their parents because they just can't afford to move out.
Don't forget foreign investors buying up property everywhere (and not even living in them) which artificially inflates the prices for people that want a fucking roof over their heads that they actually own.
Goddamn that was the stupidest fucking thing. I understand ownership and like it, but a lot of the Chinese ones are doing it to hide their money or just keep it somewhere.
Laws just changed making it harder for the chinese to invest in foreign real estate. Lots of people are expecting price correction in Canada, specifically vancouver and the GTA because of it. Occupancy rates are lowish and prices are appreciating literally month over month
That's great, my hope is this starts a new trend with cities doing this.
Agreed. It's prevalent in Los Angeles too.
So later, rather than now, be a better time to buy?
It's pure speculation what this will mean for the market. Right now, the housing market in the GTA and Vancouver is insanely heated. Multiple offers on everything, everything going for more than it was just months ago.
A townhome sold in April for 525K and relisted and sold last week at 610K in 48 hours. This is not uncommon at all - depending on how you look at things, by not jumping into the market, you're losing money.
In my opinion, there's not going to be a massive correction, most people aren't even aware this change has happened yet. Personally, I think there's going to be a slow down before the fall and a terribly slow winter, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as bad as some are predicting.
So you want a government solution to a government problem? Statism is blue pill in its purest form, Nancy.
Hey my family is planning to sell the house and relocate should we wait or go for it? Living in ontario toronto
Where in Toronto are you selling and where are you relocating to? Also, upsizing or downsizing? Can be a good or bad move depending on variables. Feel free to PM
Same thing happening in NZ
It isn't so much hiding as property being one of the few investments they can make.
They make sure that there kids and wife has a safe place to live and emergency money for the family. I would do the same.
You need 10 to 20 houses for that? At least rent some of them out.
With renting you decrease demand. You want it to increase.
No. Its a place to park money and they can sell it in a hurry if they need cash. The investors rarely ever even see the actual home.
This doesn't make sense. There are umpteen better ways to make money on investment than buying up real estate and doing nothing with it. Why would paying property tax and not getting rent income be a good investment whatsoever?
Which is bullshit considering you couldn't buy property in China unless you were a Chinese national for decades. It's ridiculous that the average home price in Vancouver is $1 million plus when the average salary is $40,000.
Last year something around 70% of all homes listed for sale in West Vancouver were bought by chinese.
The issue really is when they don't rent the place out - that's pretty fucking ridiculous. Tax increases are being proposed (may have passed already) for homes that aren't lived in or rented out.
Interesting. I visited Vancouver recently and I did notice a good amount of wealthy asians...
A one bedroom with a carspace 8km from Sydney CBD is about 600 to 650k now...
I think this is one of the negative aspects of income inequality too. Dumb money looking for somewhere to go drives up things like housing and commodities for people trying to live.
Outside of a few key markets, Chinese aren't buying at a rate that effects the country's aggregate price levels. They are scape goats for a nationwide problem.
The main reason property values are inflating is demographical. White people and asians do not want to live in multicultural areas and they don't want their kids going to schools rated below an 8/10 on greatschools.org.
This sucks, it's not fair, but when you look at buying patterns this is undoubtably the case. In my market if you took identical houses separated by less than 4 miles, the house with the good school system and low diversity would be nearly double the price of the house with a bad school.
The reason is pure supply and demand:
Imagine you have an area with 10 school districts and all 10 of them are homogenous and similar quality (think Midwest up until recently). Prices would be deflated because there isn't a strong reason to buy in one area versus another. Maybe the more convenient locations sell at a premium but nothing crazy like we see now. Now imagine the demographics shift and now half the schools have minority populations and their ratings on greatschools.org are subpar. You have effectively cut the supply of houses that white people are willing to buy without any reduction in demand.
The introduction of multiculturalism creates a bidding war among parents who are sensitive to school quality. Typical school conscious parents will pay up to the maximum allowed by their bank for a property (~32%-38% of their income). This creates de-facto segregation, but since you can't hang up a "whites only" sign, mortgage walls go up to keep the undesirables out. It's not that the parents want to put themselves in a high debt situation, it's just that the only choice is to take on a lot of debt or let their kids suffer in bad schools.
If multiculturalism is the gun powder for run away housing prices, the "spark" is the low interest rates. When people can borrow at 3.5% interest rates the buying power of a family with two people earning 120k combined is over $800,000 (est). At more historical interest rates of 6.5% their buying power falls to $580,000 (est).
So the government needs to keep pumping cheap money into our economy to maintain housing values. The moment interest rates go up the buying power of all the people in the market will decline. From the 1980's to the mid 2000's interest rates went from 18% to 3.5%. Without this, housing prices could never have gone so crazy.
Do you see the trap the public has been put in? If we make housing more affordable then millions of people lose their entire net worth, houses go into foreclosure, liquidity dries up. If we let housing prices become more expensive then the future generations need to accept lower quality of living.
Only a few outs for the government mathematically at this point:
1) Let interest rates go up. Boomers and Gen X'ers lose their retirements.
2) Keep everything the same. No appreciation and the housing market is ripe for a collapse if any event interferes with nationwide liquidity.
3) Reintroduce 40 and 50 year mortgages. Keep lowering interest rates. At 2.5% interest rates on a 50 year mortgage the 120k family can now bid prices of the same houses up to $1,010,000.
Now the problem is averted for 10-15 years and the next generation has to deal with the eventual housing crash. Low interest rates mean retiring seniors need to keep throwing their savings into the stock market which most of DC and Wall Street wants to see happening.
4) Income rises for Americans. Super unlikely with the amount of cheap labor that has flooded the market.
Not trying to be a doomsayer, just that housing unaffordability isn't due to the Chinese as is commonly stated. The same situation is playing out in Sweden where housing prices in safe areas exploded after they accepted millions of Muslim migrants. Safe areas now sell at a high premium and same as here, families are getting into massive debt to protect their kids.
Chinese investors were responsible for 11 Billion of the 63 Billion in real estate sales in Ontario last year - more than enough to inflate sales price, especially when they have no problem paying much higher than list.
Bigger problem is rural areas of industry have been demolished. You play a massive risk trying to settle down in the country. Praying industry doesn't cut and run over the border and leave your small town unemployable.
So everyone tries to buy homes in the major metros. Of which there is only so many 1 hour away suburbs to buy into.
They're never raising interest-rates; especially not after the BREXIT. With the uncertainty in the markets, in fact institutions are probably using as an excuse to maintain their low state.
I agree that the government is going to do everything in its power to keep interest rates low. The fed especially is going to flood the market with cheap money as long as they possibly can.
But the problem is that the pain always occurs when interest rates go up. So if rates are reduced to 2.0% or 2.5% to encourage housing appreciation, the prices will normalize with income in a 10-15 year period. Then what can be done to increase housing prices?
Go to 1% interest rates? Make 50 year and interest only mortgages the norm?
At some point the wheels fall off the wagon. The bond market and secondary market begin to demand a greater return on their money. At that point the interest rates have to increase unless the fed wants to risk losing trust in the currency. When that happens it won't be pretty for a lot of people.
How do high interest rates move money into the stock market? You would see the opposite, money moving out of the stock market and back into bonds and savings to get the high yields. The government should not be price fixing money in the first place.
You read it backwards, I stated that a decrease in interest rates would force more personal savings to be invested into securities.
Another reason to reconsider kids.... such a shame.
based on what you're saying, only asians and whites have housing price problems. instead, fact is, nobody wants to live with undesirables, even the undesirables themselves. they all want to get out and that's why all those places cost so much. basically anyone who has enough self control to reach a level where they can make enough to afford to leave bad areas is a good person. doesnt matter what race they are. that's why everyone who can, will want to live at a place away from people with no self control. is it really a problem of multiculturalism? you think in the south, white people aren't poor and live in fucked up neighborhoods?
That's just opening the homes up for squatters.
I remember stories of foreclosed homes sitting on the market for over a year and when the realator came to sell, he discovered some family of 5 living in the house. Then comes the months of eviction and court to get them out. Some rare cases the squaters won, getting a free house! Something about squaters rights.
Another reason why property taxes should replace all other taxes.
not everywhere, it's only in some big cities. it's not happening in 99% of usa. they are a negligible part of the high prices of houses in usa. even without foreign buyers, houses in san fran, boston, la and nyc would still be priced out of the middle class.
Now now, Gen X has been getting rightly fucked over a barrel by the 'Boomers too, son. You guys got it worse, but there was no cheap college, 4x median income housing, union jobs out of high school for us either.
Ever notice how all the songs on the radio at Christmas are from the '40s and '50s? We're all getting to relive the 'Boomer's nostalgic childhood every year. It's their world - we just live in it.
to be fair the new christmas songs are just shit.
The last memorable Christmas song was from WHAM!.
"Last Christmas
I gave you my heart
But the very next day ,you gave it away
This year
To save me from tears
I'll give it to someone special
Definitely one of my favorite christmas songs to blast .
But the main thing is this: there have never been enough of us Gen X to do anything significant politically because there are just SO GODDAMN MANY boomers and they are neither retiring nor dying as fast as they need to.
Even if they die, I think that the house(s) will pass to their own kids, who likely will rent the properties as it becomes more and more difficult to find affordable housing. The number of millennials wanting a house will not be able to afford it with the shoulder of debt from college, and the sheer number of kids baby boomers had will not be able to purchase.
Reverse mortgages are going to leave many kids with very little inheritance when mom and dad pass.
Good you shouldn't bank on your parents dying
They're all on all sorts of medications or undergoing surgery that prevent them from just dying naturally from their poor health conditions. IDK, sounds kind of cruel putting it that way, but it's the truth.
Correct. Gen X has been fucked by the Boomer scum too.
Baby-boomer's selfishness, irresponsibility, lack of patriotism, and pathological narcissism is truly impressive - Dr Spock has a lot to answer for.
the worst part is that boomers are more or less ignorant of the situation. They think today's kids are lazy. They should just go out and get any job. They think min wage can support a family of 4 still.
A boomer told me he worked in the summer at minimum wage and earned enough to pay for med school tuition and all costs for his whole year of school. I looked up what tuition was back then. $600 per year. Now its $48,000. Wages only went up slightly since then. Boomers don't realize how drastically they fucked us.
And for that 48k you can learn how white priviledge is working for you and then get accused for rape.
Get to know a lot of the boomers and their friends. Its amazing how many of them were completely uneducated and yet got well paying jobs when they were 19-20. Hell I am amazed by my dad's friends who are in their mid 50s and despite the internet being a thing for 20 years have never learned how to use a computer. Hence why I said earlier that a ton of these guys could not afford to buy the homes they have now with the jobs they have now. The ones who ended up getting fucked were people who waited to buy a house or lost it in a divorce in the late 90s.
There is no way a student today could work in the summer and make $48,000 to pay their tuition.
Same story with my dad. He worked a job over the summer, paid for a year of school and enough to buy and keep a horse in a stable. Nowadays you can't even afford the horse on minimum wage!
And all other music is likely music they hate?
Seems like a less than ideal world for them.
I'm Gen X. I feel bad for Millenials. What's worse? Seeing the decline happen for the last 40 years or never having a chance even before you were born?
Jobs are available a-plenty. Problem is the wages for some of them aren't where they need to be. And I'm not talking about the McDonald's 15/hr type situation. I've seen jobs advertise for less pay than that, but ask for a Bachelor's Degree or experience in one of the trades.
Wage wise, I've worked mainly in either admin or tech support on the lower end. I make a dollar fifty an hour more than I did 12 years ago. Gas is double. Housing prices have tripled since then. Education has gone up thousands of percentile since the 70s.
This is why I spend all of my free time on building my online businesses and learning marketing, coding etc. I feel like the direction of the US is heading to a place where if you're not Killin it, then you're probably poor.
That's exactly what a lot of experts are saying. The middle class is going to merge into the lower class.
That's the world of socialism. A percent of wealthy people and an entirety of poor people.
If they push too far, hopefully it might be a percent of dead people and an entirety of poor people.
When the gap between the rich and poor become too steep revolutions happen.
where I live, entry level work pays around 15-18 an hour with a degree in the bio field. Some even pay lower. Almost all have an introductory period where you get no benefits and can be fired at will within a 3 month time span. The situation is really bad right now imo.
Are you in DC/NYC/Bay area/Seattle/other major market? If not, wages are going to be very low for those types of fields. But in the major areas I'm seeing 100k-130k incomes for young people regularly.
The non-business owning young people who are doing very well right now are in those major markets and generally in either IT, Engineering, or Medicine. The young people who are doing "pretty well" are the skilled tradesmen or working in government.
The young people that try to attach themselves to a company that doesn't meet those criteria are not doing well. They are earning 30-40k a year and sharing a flat with friends.
no im not, but those wages arent enough for the costs just the same. You can kind of survive with lower rent, but with student loan debt among other things, you're most definitely not coming out ahead and saving a great deal. I mean it's all proportional
If you're not in a major market or a specialized field it's going to be very hard to get ahead.
For example, when I look at the salaries for mortgage bankers within the same company (top 10 bank worldwide), the mortgage bankers in the major markets are earning between 15-25 thousand per month. The bankers in the non-major markets are earning under 6 thousand per month.
Same skill level, all intelligent people, but the guys who associate with the right markets are making a killing. Same pattern happens across most other professions
Im going down a similar path. Thanks for your comment.
that's on the higher end of the wage. here in Canada, were still at 11.25/hr in Ontario and that's shit. what's worse is 11.25/hr, is not as low as it gets and 11.25/hr is basically slave labor..
it's $7.25 here in Kentucky. most jobs that require experience and prefer a degree still just pay about $9 as well as people who just slave away in factories.
you guys haven't been to third world country a lot aye? that $7.25 is for day work not for 1 hour and that is considered really generous
That's right, "junk-jobs" & "high-flyers". That's the name of the game.
The young men of the 60s-80s didn't really have to hustle. They just had to show up. This idea of having their own business was absurd for the most part. Basically all they had to do was show up and doing that would net them enough of an income to punch forward.
Yep. Thats why i'm saving every penny I make and buying investment properties, so when shit hits the fan I won't be thrown on to the streets
Come now, this is TRP. Let's stay on point here--it's entirely the fault of women.
Yeah, let that shake around in the cage for a second there.
But seriously, it's true. Allow me to illuminate, as my father did for me on this very topic. A couple decades ago I got my first e-staff spot, though this was back before the wild run-away MBA fueled idiot-tier salaries we hand out now. Nevertheless, in cash alone I took in about three times what my father did, who owned his own business (and a pretty substantial medium sized business, not some VHS rental place or something). My father owned his own home outright. He had several cars. He had a retirement war chest. He had pieced together a textbook 50’s beta-male WIN lifestyle.
I, on the other hand, could never get ahead. Not when I was making $20k a year. Not when I was making when he said that to me. It seemed like no matter what I did, I never could make enough money. My father was pretty quick to point out the cause, “you [kids] buy mountains of shit you don’t need.” Yup. Mountains of shit we don’t need. How many fucking sets of cookware do you need? Enough that at least one of them you’ll never see used. At Disneyland? Buy the kids those $15 Mickey Mouse heads that come with popcorn in it, just so you can throw away the beheaded mouse skull into the garbage when you get home, because you don’t know where to put it.
It wasn’t until I started hiding my income increases did the need to increase spending slowed down. And I’m lucky. My wife grew up dirt poor. She had relatively low expectations from the start. Women will expand their needs to fit the available resources and then push beyond. That last part is the important part. If uncontrolled, women will STRAIN your ability to provide resources—there is never equilibrium. My father was a classic blue-beta masculine male; he had boundaries and enforced them. My mother obeyed those boundaries. Me? Yeah, I was like the rest of the Gen-X mooks. If we didn’t provide the shrill harpy her desires, we were marked losers and expected to take shit from our wives and her peers for it.
Then I woke up. “Sorry, no bonus this quarter, dear. Tough financial environment.” And see, even that is a sad state of affairs. I started my RP journey by hiding and slinking in the shadows, instead of asserting my prerogatives. But we do what we can do when we can do them, right?
You may not feel like you have a lot, but compare your lifestyle to the typical middle class family in the 1950s. Start with the fact they had no idea what a fucking cell phone does nor why you need to spend three days in the hospital getting tests by unrecognizable machines when your little darling falls off a bike and hits his head. Our materialism is a fucking abomination. Our expectations have gone off the charts and men are doing nothing to constrain them. We are throwing money at our problem. We are throwing DEBT at our problems. We are accumulating piles of foreign made shit. This is not how it was five decades ago; in fact, we were on the other side of that equation.
You can complain about income inequality all you want, but the vast majority of wealth held by the 2% and up is funny unicorn paper. They don’t consume but a tiny, itty, teeny fraction of resources and economic activity, unlike the rest of the people do. If they were to even try, say by handing out piles of funny money so average people can consume more, inflation would explode. You have to understand this fundamental truth—paper money and economic activity are only locked as far as economic activity can support the paper. Just wishing you can hand out paper money and everyone can be prosperous is delusional and stupid.
So, yes. We would all love to be able to throw money at our problems (aka women) and live a happy carefree life. That’s just not how it works. Instead, as hard men, you should focus on what you need while striving to raise yourself. Don’t waste. Don’t chase fancy things. Live good. Spend money for things that meet your goals (yes, sometimes it will be frivolous). You’ll get where you want to be.
Ok, so I suppose it is really our fault. We are men. We let this happen. This takes me to the sad ending of my story. After my father retired, he basically let my mother take over their life planning. It took five years to tear through savings accounts and equity in their nice home. My father spent his final years in a smaller house with a wife that constantly bitched she couldn’t go to Europe twice a year any more—despite having NEVER been there until a decade before. He lost control and she ran off a cliff. It always ends the same way.
Can't believe I had to scroll down this far for this comment.
"Shit you do not need" the way to go. A house clocked at 250k. Do I really need it? No, just wait till the next crash is around the corner. Buy shit once in your life. I am an avid cook so I used to have a lot of high end teflon and ceramic frying pans ending up spending more than $150 on pans a year but now I exclusivly use the hand made iron pans which last forever.
Same goes for cars the $ 1000 used Toyota from an old person will take me everywhere and is still running without a problem at 200k miles. People forgot the basics of economics.
I am a lawyer. My former firms never wanted to pay more than 150k (5 yrs exp. in a strange field of law) because, you know, business is tough son; as soon as I let it slip that one of my collegues and I are willing to leave and hang our own shingle on the door their tune changed suddenly.
Long story short: the economy is fucked but the guys and girls out there are pampered, entitled, whiney I-want-to-have-it-all-plus-social-security humans and now they have access to easy credit.
no to mention 12 hour work days 6 days a week isn't exactly something someone can consider as more successful than chilling in the basement. why the fuck would anyone willingly be a wage slave when they can just play world of warcraft and watch porn.
It might go back to how things used to be. Parents living with parents.
Good luck finding a girl that wants to live with husband's parents indefinitely.
There would be plenty, once the Fed can not longer hold their shit.
I mean, if that becomes the reality, things will change in a cultural sense. It worked before, it can work again etc
I'm still working.
Ask the ones who practice it.
It'll happen, but there's definitely going to be hostility between the different 'castes' forming amid this economic stratification.
ALLAHHUuuuuAkbaarr..errererer... I mean, I meant, you do realize there are a LOT of conservative pockets of people where the culture did exactly this?
Indeed this was probably the standard the world over and we couldn't see it happening too far away from this model.
Yeah seriously. Not like that happened for 5000 years of human history or anything.
We took the opposite approach. I bought an old farm, built on it, then had both sets of parents move on and they built on it, sharing capital costs and improvement.
When they pass on, the transfer is relatively easy due to the legal structures we used, and the houses will still be rentals.
My children can choose to rent and receive the business assets over time, but in the old school sense, not this split everything up attitude of fairness that Americans have.
So, rather than be hopeless, do some financial engineering and go multigenerational.
That's tough to do in the "me me me" world of boomers these days, but it's better than nothing.
I don't even think my parents would like that, but I think more than that it's the way we have been raise, success is been defined as independance and having it better that your parents.
what a horrible definition for success
Not to mention that rent is so damn high it retards saving.
The baby boomers have done everything in their power through government to prevent asset prices from going down.. pumping up bubbles everywhere that are good for them and their retirement portfolios but terrible for young people who have been priced out of homes, stocks, etc.
Once Boomers learned they could vote themselves money they kept doing it evey 2 years. Thats why old people vote in droves. The gravy train became rocket powered and by the time their kids figured it out that train was already in orbit. There are two simplified solutions. Keep the train in orbit and out of reach of everyone but the ones already on it or make it crash land back to earth with the boomers losing an assload of wealth in the process. The boomers are doing everything in their power to keep that gravy train up there long enough for the party to continue until they die.
Even those of us with decent jobs are getting hit too, it's not even a matter of lack of money on the 'normal' scale of income, property prices are so high that even high income folks are having a hard time getting on that ladder.
Income inequality is only a thing because of financial illiteracy.
Exactly. House/condo prices are getting too high, and the wages are getting lower, therefore, homeownership amongst youth will decrease. The question of course is, who is buying all the houses then?
Nobody. I live in TX and I can point out about twenty new development neighborhoods with houses starting in the 350's that are completely empty and have been for 5+ years. Basically, real estate money pits.
The realtors won't budge on the prices though, that's the funny part.
it's not baby boomers. it's low interest rates. 90% of homeworkers are on borrowed money and that allows them to contend for high prices. if suddenly no one could borrow money to buy, then based on what we know about americans' savings, who would be able to buy houses? the price would plummet to hell.
just curious, is it possible to be living inside a car treating it as your mobile home?
I don't live in the US, but I'm asking about how it would be in the US
Yeah if you live in LA, NY, or London.
There are plenty of great places to live in the US that don't cost an arm and a leg.
I hate this line of thought. I love and am from DC where a one bedroom condo will cost you 350,000.
When I brought up that it is bullshit that the city I was born and raised in is now too expensive the first thing Reddit says is to move. Move where? Why the fuck should I move?
And you know why a lot of other cities are cheap, because no jobs and no one wants to live there.
Toronto checking in, just bought a one bedroom for $570K (CAD).
It's amazing, isn't it? That should buy you a three bedroom house with a huge backyard.
I'm with you, bruv. Stuck in DC because of the job market, and the houses are so expensive. Had a 7brm house on a golf course in Atlanta at 26, moved here and bought a 2brm townhouse for the same price.
Tell me about it - though in fairness it's a pretty cool place - old converted factory loft - but still...fuck me.
True
I used to live in Iowa and I had a 1000 square foot apartment that was brand new and I paid $600 a month for it
Now I live in Seattle and have a 400 square foot apartment that I pay $1450 a month for plus $190 for a parking spot.
Once my contract is up here in Seattle I am moving back to a place where it doesn't cost so damn much to rent.
It all revolves around jobs. The fucked up thing is like 80% of the people heading in to the city could do the same work from home, but the industrial-age need for managers to see the back of someone's head for 40 hours a week that drives the daily migration.
Gotta put in that face time. =) Funny thing is I've found when you're really valuable to a company they let you work from home more. It's only when things are tight that you have to worry about that stuff.
I live in the suburbs of Detroit and while you can find a three bedroom house in the ghetto for $500 a month, finding even a shitty one bedroom apartment in a neighborhood where you won't have to come home to find your shit stolen will cost you more than $900.
26 here from NY, been back in my parents house since I graduated college & was getting ready to move out but why pay less for more? It's not like I freeload - I pay "rent" & my bills, buy my own groceries and do ALL the chores & yardwork. I like having a backyard, a spot to park my car, can have people over whenever I want and I have sex whenever I want to. The only downside is when girls decide to be obnoxiously loud but if my mom wants grandchildren and a happy son, she'll continue to mind her business.
Living at home will work for you while still in your mid 20s but it will get different with the girl situation when hitting 30s.
Once the girls get fucked by Chad, all around the house, loud as fuck, on top of the kitchen table at the middle of the day, when resorting back to you trying to be extra quite so you don't wake up Pops, it's not gonna work for these girls anymore like how it worked in your 20s.
I'm not dissing you, just letting you know don't get to comfortable as years go on. The girls that fuck you in your 20s that fuck you in your 30s will have different intention.
Well I get your point but I think should want to get out more for himself that the girls, cause he can just keep dating 20 something girls, now marriage and kinds is another deal.
20-something girls who are open to dating 30-something men aren't dating 30-something men who live with their parents.
Your parents seem incredibly chill.
Yeah well that's what you fucking get when you purposefully neuter an entire fucking generation of men under the guise of progressiveness. Add that to the immense selfishness of the prior generations, mix in a little female sexual liberation and make sure only the top men have any sort of sexual motivation, and bam. 2016.
Make sure your investment portfolio has holdings in virtual reality dating simulators and dildos cause this entire generation of kiddies is fucked beyond all recovery.
Don't forget about flooding the country with illegal workers, who drive down wages.
Nah, corporate greed drives down wages.
I'd say it's both. Illegal immigrants driving down wages by saturating the job market, "Corporate Greed" uses this as reason to lower wages
Give it 10 years and it'll go from "immigrants stealing our jobs" to "machines/robots stealing our jobs".
Just look at that Adidas automated factory in Germany, they get a gold sticker for not using child labor in the far east, but at the same time they save even more money by having even fewer workers!
That's the job market future. There will be very few basic labor jobs, and the few that are required will be either because machines aren't flexible enough to account for customer needs (think mid-higher end catering etc) or they want a friendly public front(aka eye candy receptionist).
It's difficult to prove how many illegal immigrants are present in the US (for example) and how much they saturate the job market. Just like how one cannot pin a number on how often rape isn't reported.
Saturating job markets? They only have two job market, harvesting crops and construction.
What is saturating markets is this bullshit ideology that everyone should go to college. Some people have to flip the burgers. Not everyone should have a degree and it starts with those low expectation degree farms. They pump out people who flood the market and bring down the value of millions of degrees.
They are also flooding the manual labor/warehouse/forklift markets. In TX, 6 years ago, you could get a forklift job paying about $14-16. For an unskilled single dude in his early twenties, that's decent money in TX.
Now, those same jobs are flooded with Mexican temps and only pay $8-9.
That's why liberals hate Donald Trump. He knows that this is the reason for actual Americans losing jobs and not being able to afford things. It's just not "politically correct" to say that.
Looking for this comment. Trump is all about jobs, it trumps everything else. He is exactly right about the rich globalists demolishing the middle class.
Also don't forget about the campaign to raise the minimum wage, so that semi-skilled employees end up at the bottom again once the burger flippers make the same income.
[permanently deleted]
hikikomori? I'm 23 and live at home. Live the simplest of life. Get 100 euro a week social welfare. Give 50 of that to my parents plus keep the house clean and young ones fed. Workouts, video games, cycling, walks, internet, guitar, growing vegetables (just started growing cannabis as wel!). No car. Cycle everywhere in a small village. Pretty much a hippy I guess but don't smoke. Get looks from the traditional country type girls but never been a player. The woman will change and come to me or ill walk on as I do! Where would I even take them? Boredom to me is but the canvas of creativity! I don't belong here as you probably know but do identify with MGTOW a little. America is obviously a different world entirely though where money seems to be power and power to be life! A generational shift in core values occurring perhaps however? You old fucks judge us but our silent retreat is not without consequences for you. Bit pretentious writing this I know but will be interesting to see the response. Be water my friend!
Being poor exposes you to all kinds of shit.
Muslim rapefugees getting moved right next to your place? Tough luck, you got no cash to move away.
Muslim rapefugees wanting to start a new caliphate? Tough luck, you'll have to fight them in a civil war as your traiterous government doesn't give a fuck.
History is full of poor young peasant men that lived a short, uneventful life.
I'm rather in prison than living like a peasant but that's just me.
YOU ARE THE COWARDS RUNNING AWAY. True wealth comes within. My neighbors are muslim but i'm not afraid. We are forging a new line of communication after 100s of years of conflict. You will be living in your own prison now or later in life. Your delusions of "alpha" because of money are going to slowly strangle you. I can only beg you to spend time in nature or take mushrooms to radically change how you perceive the world. Being sheltered and disconnected from nature comes at a price. All the best.
I'm not afraid either but I grew up next to those subhuman pieces of shit. There is a reason their countries are 3rd world shitholes and they move to the west for welfarebux - they're genetic trash, unable to form collaborative societies and their IQs are pretty low in general.
Without the white man's oil bux arab countries would still be dirt poor and they would be fucking camels instead of russian hookers.
Red pill on race: Just like women and men aren't equal, neither are races.
Red pill on money: If you're poor you're likely to suffer from the consequences of poverty + only the lowest SMV women will stick around.
100 a week in social welfare. Do you not understand that your existence is a net negative for your countrymen? That they would be better off without you? Doesn't this fucking bother you?
Have you not paid attention to the rest of government spending? 100 a week is fucking PEANUTS to the bullshit governments waste money on. This guy still spends that 100 a week IN COUNTRY, so it's not a loss.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent of checking out, but isn't the idea around here that society has failed us as men and we don't owe it shit until it cleans up its act?
That's a part of the mentality that needs to stop. You are a part of that society. It's not "someone else's problem" to solve but yours as well.
I have kids, two out of three being boys, so I am invested in improving things (honestly, I don't think it is achievable without a collapse and reset).
But I don't think the idea that we should "man up" and feed the current system is going to change a damn thing. Maybe prolong the decline.
I've never taken welfare - not even when I was laid off shortly after my divorce, laden with all the debts she ran up and none of the assets I earned, living with my parents and being chased by debt collectors (I worked my ass off and paid everything back alone). I don't think it's the best option for guys to check out. Things are bad, but if you have the information that is shared here, you can avoid the traps and win.
But I fail to see the connection between propping up this system with participation and changing it. I've seen how it'll repay you after your years of service. Let it fucking burn.
Red pill is about being your best and adding value around you.
Your lifestyle isn't the problem, it's your source of income that's a drain on society
The point is to not play captain save-a-ho. You should still have your own job though.
The point is to not play captain save-a-ho. You should still have your own job though.
You feed off of other people's taxes, pay your mom a pittance of rent, spend your time growing a garden, and nurse kids like a woman!
Damn it's one thing to be a useless idiot, it's another thing to be proud of it.
yeah there is no equivalent safety net like this in America. This was discussed in a previous topic, but if you want to live that life in America, it's significantly harder and more complicated.
I would really be in favour of this kind of lifestyle if it just tweaked it a tiny tiny bit. What if you took your growing vegetables thing to another level, to the point that you could start earning some money off it? Selling at local markets or something. Now, imagine if heaps of people did this. You just made available a wide variety of fresh fruit and veg to a small community. Yes, I know this happens already but it's such a nice thing to think about.
I know lots of good looking losers who got married. Looks count way more than money.
Getting married is an accomplishment?
How to get married: Be willing to put up with a post wall woman who wants kids. Make enough money to help support them.
Attractive guys who got married have lost the game, not won it.
They got duped, son, DUPED
Yeah getting married is the opposite of an accomplishment... ask any married guy!
It really depends on all the variables. We can't be intellectually honest if we don't address those. It's like the wage gap myth. There are plenty of factors that go in to the equation for both sides. Do they have kids? Marital status? Relationship history? Looks? Salary?
If it's a shit job, and they (men) are good looking, it balances out. If men are average looking and have a great job, it balances out. It's always a combination.
It's definitely possible to get laid when you're unemployed and living with your parents, even when you're 30 and shouldn't have an excuse. You don't even have to lift, be an alpha stud, or have great game. Granted, you'll have to lower your standards a bit, but not nearly as much as one would think.
The only thing that I had going for me was that I have probably a 7/10 face, owned a vehicle, was in school, and was fortunate to have at least some cash from the GI Bill. I never even lied about my situation when asked. I was clearly better off than Mr. World of Warcraft, but the incel, six figure engineers have no excuse.
[deleted]
That reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjBuicfuJ8I
If you have less resources then women, your only option left is to be Hot if you wanna get laid.
That honestly explains it perfectly .
I'll bite. I live at home currently. I'm in my mid twenties. However this is purely just to be cheap. I even live in a cheap area. No northeast or westcoast high prices for me. I'm saving up for my own house and I'll be going to professional school soon. Most young men I know that live at home also live for financial reasons and to save money. Women can't do this because them having a slutty lifestyle is usually not compatible with parents. Its easy for guys though, my parents let me come and go as I please (the only stipulation was I needed a plan and a temporary job). When I want to fuck a girl I just go to her place, and rarely to my parents. I have not had many problems with dating. Girls in my area don't seem to care and I get plenty of pussy.
Girls don't question why you're always leaving to their house, because the majority I talk to prefer to get screwed away from where they stay especially when they're younger.
I usually just tell them I live at home. I give them the gap year argument and sometimes I lie and give them a fun story. Every once in awhile a girl gets turned off by it, but there are so many women here that I just say next and move on. 5 universities in my area also make it great. Including one that is over 50% girls.
Aren't most universities over 50% girls?
Yep, but this particular one is mostly upper middle class sorority girls. Its TCU. And there aren't enough men for them.
I hear lots of girls at TCU have serious daddy issues. Would love to troll for some T&A around that area ;)
When I went to Miami it was like 65% women as incoming freshmen
the situation is so common now is the thing. It might shift a bit depending on where you live and the attitudes therein, but for the most part people ARE adapting. Some of the hottest chicks ive fucked were when I was living at home in my mid 20s, and not one of them gave a shit. People really overstate the problem in my honest opinion
Definitely in my experience
I would rather pay a monthly rent for room with flatmates to stay psychically sane than staying home with constant bullshitting.
Lot of guys willingly choose not to, due to some shitty inteligent arguments about saving little money.
It is worth to spend $ to live alone.
Quick comparison.
I found new job in another city and immediately moved there.
vs
Friend found job in his hometown , stayed home with parents.
Everytime we meet for a beer , you can see the dead eyes and exhaustion from everyday contact with same people (His parents and younger brother). The depression is real.
Yeah, parents are becoming more grumpy and annoying as they get older. Also "when I was your age" stories intensify.
To be fair, parents have pretty much been this way from generation to generation.
this is highly dependent on what your parents are like though. Some people have no problems with it. If anything, most of the depression comes from worrying about what others think I find.
[deleted]
valid point. IMO Still after considering all the pros/cons, it is better to go to another place.
Family relationships went straight from shitty and toxic, to bearable and even pleasant.
Guess why?
We appreciate each other company more, because we don't want to spend our time with no quality content :)
My parents would do anything for me to move in with them after school, saying I'll save money and stuff. But they give me limited autonomy so why would I?
Absolutely this. I'm 17 and I already can't wait to ge the hell out because my parents are strict Christians that never let me do anything. I love them, but they're really fucking up my social life and I can't see myself moving in with them when I get home from college, even if the collapse happens at that time.
How would one go about finding a job in a different city?
I am a 23 year old german and live with my parents because I had to move out of my appartment because I will move to munich in two month. I always use my parents house as a bus stop between switching from one city to another.
My older sister (25) would never move in again because she 'needs to be independent' (= needs to get lots of alpha cock through tinder and she couldn't do this in this tiny village my parents live at + she can't be a little slut while my parents are around).
Sounds like all girls who want or are riding on the CC. Couple of girls I know have chosen to get a big house mainly because one of the girls dad owns the property than go to uni.
My sister's the same - refuses to stay at home or room with people - needs her own apartment. You'd think it'd be the opposite with guys wanting more sexual freedom, but I guess that's cultural indoctrination talking.
Most guys are realistic of their chances and realize they don't need their own place for masturbation.
Funny. But my parents have issues with me even dating at all. I do think think I could do it after college.
Half the problem is that colleges don't prepare kids for the real world with any meaningful professional skills. Short of a STEM degree or something like Finance/Accounting most kids graduate and have no clue where the fuck they will go or what they will do with their degrees. I went for the liberal arts meme in school; fortunately I stumbled into a sales job and it turns out I'm good with people so I make a decent living for myself at 24.
Furthermore most parents don't teach their kids meaningful financial skills or how to function around adults. I love my folks and they raised me well, but they didn't give me a damn bit of meaningful advice about getting by on my own-- not even about balancing a budget. The biggest lesson I ever got from them was watching them lose their pants in the housing market crash. That taught me to live below my means and put away money every month.
Initially that wasn't even the point of college.
Well of course. Women generally are supported by a slightly older man. So comparing both genders at the same age cutoff will skew the stats.
And then they get pissed when they get treated as no better than a whore....after subsidizing their finances via sex. Lulz.
[deleted]
Here's something to consider. At 29 I went from making six figures to out of a job for reasons beyond my control. Six months later the savings dried up as I searched for comparable work to finally having to move in with my fam. Fortunately a month later I was able to find solid work and resume my old lifestyle but the dawning point is...what would have happened if the family wasn't there? Fact is the nuclear family truly is a bedrock of a solid economy since it provides a non-government based helping hand for when you truly need it. But as today's society continues to diminish reasons for a man to get married whats gonna happen to following generations when shit hits the fan? Seriously puts the western decline into focus when you sit down and think about it.
I want to move back home with my parents. I'm trying to save to buy a duplex/triplex in the next 12 months. If you let your mission/goals steer you, a bitches' opinion on your living situation means nothing.
I'm 25, live in an apartment, pay for all my own shit, and just bought a duplex at 25, and will be buying more very soon. Don't leech off your parents, they raised you up until now, its time for you to go out on your own and pave your own way.
[permanently deleted]
hey, if your paying that much anyway might as well be on your own too
Serious question. I'm a 24 year old living at home.
What the hell can I do to earn more money and move out?
Track your finances, know where your money is going, realize that most material things are bullshit (unless it's for your true hobby/passion), budget, build people skills and network (life is about who you know), change careers like going into STEM or figuring out how people are making bank in your career field
This is the most useful answer here. Quick question what is STEM?
Science tech engineering math/medicine
move to big city, drive for uber, you might have to work 50 hours a week, but you will make 3-5 grand a montha nd that is enough to get your own studio or 1bd for 800-1400 a month
go to used car dealership, buy used prius or sonata 2014 with 20,000 miles. put 1 grand down, go to bank ask for loan, i went to us bank, make payments once a month over 5 years, should be like 300 a month
insurance for 6 months with rideshare added is like 800 bucks.
work mornings, you want airport runs, like 3am- noon shifts.
The work is there sign up, move out, go to the big city, get a place, work all the time, I make a grand or two a week driving for uber, i am 25, have my own place in MPLS, have 5 figures ina vanguard index fund and a 2013 sonata limited paid off, was just 3 years ago Iwas living at home.
SIGN UP FOR UBER AND LYFT, move to thriving white part of town just outisde of city, mine is uptown, but every city has a trendy area right next to downtown where all the rich hang, move there, or close to. Go to the money.
Edit: I have no college degree, and got a drug felony at 19(for weed, expunged now so I have a clean record now), was working at liquor store making 9 bucks an hour when I was 22, now 25, if I can do it, ANYBODY can, unless you have a DUI, lol Uber won't take you.
Thats awesome man. I drive for Lyft/Uber, and am a lyft mentor. I make between 1-2k a week working maybe 30 hours. I have a college degree, haven't felt any need to use it yet though lol. Keep doing your thing.
Ask for loan? Hahaha good one
I assume this would work for LA, yes? Also, I wouldn't know the city well, but I assume I can just put the location on the phone's GPS and go, right?
Also I'm kind of worried becuase I've heard that uber is being sued for some reason but I might be remembering wrong.
works perfect in LA, the uber app gives you step by step directions just like google maps.
call an uber right now, it costs 6 bucks, the driver will give you the 411, they are always helpful for those looking to sign up.
JUST DO IT TRUST ME
or just go to uber.com and sign up. sign up for lyft to, you'll be driving in less than a week.
edit: uberpeople.net go to LA section, see for yourself what X drivers are making in your area. I see guys driving X in LA clearing 1500 a week in 50 hours.
Thanks man, this has been really helpful.
What do you do now? You can have room mates but if you want to earn more money, you may need to do something different. I'm in IT and I wish I had gotten into real estate when I was your age. Seems like there is no ceiling in that market.
right now I'm a Jr web developer for a marketing agency but I've started buying and selling things on ebay for a little extra cash flow.
When you say get into real estate you mean flipping houses?
I wouldn't get into real estate right now if I were you. I would suggest honing your skills and moving up in your career.
Thinking about it, that and/or renting.
If your talking about being an agent, the 80/20 rule is strong. 20 percent of the agents make 80% of the money, and someone just starting will def not be in the top 20% anytime soon.
Always aim to get a professional degree, such as medicine, dentistry, accounting, or engineering. You want to be able to sell your knowledge and skills to people who value them.
If you have to ask that question on the internet, with no details about you whatsoever, you might as well just buy a fucking lottery ticket and pray.
Well what other details you want fam?
Degree? Certifications? Job history ? Marketable skills? It's hard to tell you how to make money when you literally don't say anything about yourself.
If I didn't have an amazing DINK (Dual income no kids) couple that basically adopted me and let me live in their mega house. I'd be living at home (already moved back once when I got laid off), or on a friends couch.
I still don't have anything of value besides a car & a drum set, bank acct gets wiped out every week for one thing or another. And I'm gainfully employed, I can't fathom being able to save enough money for a down payment on a HOUSE. I got 3 years till 30, don't see it getting any better then.
First post here, been around for a while. Hi.
DINKs are second only to DILDOs. Dual Income Little Dog Owners.
You basically live with your parents.
So how did that happen? Who do you have to sleep with?
My friend and his gf graduated college and were adult adopted by a millionaire older bachelor.
just turned 31 and living at home. went to university for 2 years and dropped out. drank, partied, got hooked on drugs, and wasted ages 18-25. luckily my family tried to help me and I ended up going to trade school to be an electrician. I'm 6 months away from getting my e2. I have about $15k in total debt. my plan is to consolidate my debt, get my license, and save to hopefully move out before 32. any other royal fuck ups here getting their shit together later in life?
3 years homeless, 29 yo, finally finishing my environmental engineering degree at a strong state school.
Life isn't a sprint. it's a rollercoaster.
You got this homie.
[permanently deleted]
I feel your pain. If everyone's parents acted like asian parents, there would be no one living with their parents.
I got the opposite. Financially irresponsible black parents. If I kept living with them I guarantee they would start charging me rent that costs as much as an apartment. Hell, they actually did for the 2 weeks I lived there after getting a job.
That's what some Puerto Rican families do around here.
All I can say is it fucks up the family and at least one of those kids will be insane or in jail directly because of it
I got white parents that do the same. Make me pay for my car and everything related to it, insurance, groceries and a small stipend for rent. Sucks since I'm just scraping by with minimum wage full time and paying my tuition. It's a fucking vacuum and I don't know where the money goes. I'd move out but I don't have friends who could be roommates and it's too expensive to live on my own here. Once I graduate college I'll be pulling up the roots and moving to the opposite end of the country from my parents. Can't stand them.
Family is a motherfucker. He is asking me for bread to break then has the nerve, in the same sentence, to tell me he just got done paying for his truck (600-700) hundred dollar car note. So you tell me you need 1/3 of my pay check, then in the same breath tell me you had more money than that open up for you monthly? I tell you what, you show me your goddamn bills, I make you a budget and that way you don't end up broke at the end of every month.
My parents just bought a 300k house while I'm in college
If I get a cold, they'd nurse my body as well as they can so I can go to school asap. At the same time, they blame me for staying up late (sometimes for school work!), going out to have fun with friends even during the day, saying it's physically exhausting for my body and there are all kinds of germs outside, for not eating all kinds of veggies (you can never eat enough because this is clearly just an excuse), and give me hour-long talks about how I should have listened to them. Sure, if I listen to you, I will never catch a single cold. Suuuuuure.
I'm 17 and looking for a room in another city. I can't take another second of this.
No dating and tell us where you are 24/7 huh? Same. Can't do it.
it's okay, Hillary is marching us off to war with Russia and that'll thin the herd a bit.
18-34 is a weird range. If someone is still living with their parents when they're 34 that's awful. But why would you hold it against an 18 year old to still be living with their parents?
Living at home while going to college, while a very pragmatic option/moneysaver, kinda kills your social life a bit.
I personally regret not going to the gym as much as I should have more than living at home.
I'd go further than calling it pragmatic. Or argue paying for your own place near home is a complete waste. Although, it's not a terrible idea if you rent a place off campus with some friends that you use for school but requires a year long lease.
Roommates are unbelievably unreliable. Gonna be honest here. Had roommates when I was 19-21 through university; worst experiences of my life hardened/toughened me up quickly- Afterward by maneuvering family politics through a hostile takeover I de-facto took possession of one of many pieces of property that my family owns.
Wish I had the balls to have done it sooner:
cutoff some relationships that weren't doing any good now that house serves as a place of operations for my business. Don't have to pay rent but have my own place. They fork over money for maintenance & upkeep.
Personally find that destroying others through self-motivation causes greater success than attempting to cooperate when eveyone's intentions & motivations are different.
You can't trust people better to be a predator, then you're what everyone else's paranoid of rather than constantly being paranoid of others
The only reason I mentioned roommates was for the sake of saving money.
I know. Moral of the story.
I wish my world experience or elder taught me at 19 unless you've got 'true bro's' that won't break a lease when they're mad- won't become backstabbing turncoats/quizzlings over a vagina, won't screw you generally while you're studying for exams: roommates aren't worth the money.
There's too much Fucking drama people just don't get along
Totally agreed. I was lucky to have enough scholarships to have tuition be virtually free, and living with my parents allowed me to go to university for almost no cost and have the financial freedom to do what I'd like. Sure it's harder socially, but it gives you time to get the ball rolling.
These guys are often the most attractive, contrary to your assumption.
Tons of free time to work out, pursue hobbies, perfect their game, chase women.
Can stay out late any night they want. Can go to the beach in the middle of the day if they want. Lost a job? So what? Not losing your place, not going hungry, just gotta listen to mom yell a few times a day until you find a new grill to stand over and flip burgers.
Access to all the luxuries Mom and Dad can afford, and simply present it as their own (hot tub, pool, vacation house, etc).
Can spend 100% of their income on DHV-cars, clothes, jewelry, boats, toys, etc. Often have no savings, as they know the parents will bail them out if they are in trouble (wreck their car, catch a DUI, etc).
When you make $1,000/week but have $3,500/month in bills, and need a buffer of savings, you have a lot less to spend than the guy who makes $300/week, lives for free, and needs no savings buffer.
Can't tell you how many basement dwellers I know with boats, motorcycles, and nice cars, who spend all day, every day, chasing women.
Most of them end up with a clingy low-smv girl that gets knocked up or otherwise wrangles them into marrying young.
See caveat of being hot and fit, i.e using that spare time productively rather than shitpost on the internet or play vidya all day.
But you are only right in the short run. In the long run if these people never build onto proper jobs and are not the true rich, or don't have connections to find work, they will run out of the parent's money eventually. That is most people in the middle class.
I've got a good friend who's an unskilled laborer. The most he's ever made is 40k in year working as a retail manager. He spends every fucking dollar he earns, has an endless amount of clothing, he drinks excessively, and has a life/emotional crisis every six months. There is nothing stable about him or his life.
And he absolutely slays pussy. Women can't get enough of him. He is literally the most fun person I know. He lives in the moment, knows all of the most interesting/fun spots in town. He's got game, and he's witty/socially aware/intelligent.
Women know what they're getting into when they date him, and they do it anyway. Yet there's nothing about his life style that even hints that he has anything to offer besides fun in the moment.
Are you suggesting women fuck guys that give them tingles???
Just adding an anecdote to the conversation up top about the play boys living at home still slaying chicks.
Didn't notice that caveat in your post.
Doesn't matter if they're a failure later in life, my point is, they are out pumping babies into 20-something women while those of us who are "successful" are too busy working, improving, and gaming to be passing on our genes or getting roped into marriage.
The failures living with their parents are the ones passing on their genes.
Tons of studies support this, it's not just my perception. It's been this way FOREVER.
1945 Social Security office report, check the page 5 chart. Clearly, the less you make, the more kids you have.
2010 report Clearly, it still stands.
2013 report, nothing changed.
When do they get knocked up? Overwhelmingly, age 20-29.
Wanna guess what kind of people have low income and are knocking up 20-something year old girls left and right? The ones still living with mommy and daddy...
That's why F Scott Fitzgerald wrote. "One things sure and nothings surer, the rich get richer and the poor get.... children."
That's almost like in the movie Idiocracy. You got this Gronk like football player who knocks up all these girls, and then you got these two baby faced couples who are very intelligent that wait till it's too late and end up dying kid less.
It's usually the woman that wants to wait too long.
I have a friend in this very situation.
Now days it seems all women are having kids at 35-40, and then wondering why they have down syndrome or other issues. It's pretty disgusting how irresponsible it is.
Well I'm thinking about all single moms that got pumped, and none of them got pumped by wealthy man.
From the genetic point of view only the man that pass on their genes can be considered successful. However that success cannot only be measured by number of children. The fitness is also important, because if those children do not spread their own genes, they simply do not count.
The thing is that children raised in "single mom" family are not as fit. Modern society is going to take care that they do not die out of hunger, but still, females have daddy issues, boys grow into beta-bucks. They do not have the money for education... and while their daddy had parents who could afford to have their 30yo son stay with them, they will not have that privilege.
The children produced in that way have seriously damaged fitness.
The strategy does work if the mommy manages to find herself a provider though.
Your thinking is flawed.
These guys will never be beta bucks, they won't make money, they won't know how.
Income is lower than ever for the next generation, guess what that means? More children, earlier. I'm not saying they're Chad, I'm saying they can get themselves laid with a 3/10 and pump out a half dozen welfare check recipients before the higher income kids get their college degree.
The reason we have such big income disparity in our country is because low-income people have so many fucking kids, all of whom are low-income as well. There's 5-10 low income children born for every 1 high income child (depending on your area).
It's been this way for generations.
Well I was raised by a single parent, and I have a bunch of friends who were raised by single parents.
I know what you are talking about, I'm calling them over-the-top alpha. Guys with lack of any kind of self restrain. They pump up a bunch of future welfare check recipients, then end up in jail, or getting shot.
But if everyone of them was like that, then every country in western society would be overtaken in a single generation.
Most of the male kids raised by single parents end up as betas (no male rolemodel), and they are fucked up in the head.
And nope. My father didn't just knocked up my mom and left. He died in a war.
I would think fitness only matters in relation to survival, which only matters to pass on the genes. So, fitness doesn't matter, barring these kids don't die young.
I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live that life...
Shit no, and it's not the life I'm living.
A lot of my highschool friends, guys that were alpha teenagers, just never changed while the world around them moved on. Many of them have gone incel around 30. Girls their age won't waste their time with a loser, their game doesn't work anymore. Younger girls think they're creepy. They eventually settle for a former GF, generally one that was knocked up by another loser, or an older woman.
My 31 year old ex-roomate was recently dating an older woman. Her granddaughter is a bartender at the local dive bar, that's how they met. No fucking joke. My college room mate just MARRIED a woman 9 years older than him, with 3 kids (ages 9-17) from 2 men.
Not the life I want.
That last paragraph. Fuhuuuuuck
Haha, all the dudes I know in this category average about 30 hours of video games a day and haven't seen a gym since pe class in high school.
I know quite a few of them. Heck, some of them are pushing 30 year old virgin status and have blatantly said they've given up and accepted they'll never get laid.
For every one of them, there's 2 or 3 that just never grew up, never decided to take on responsibility, and use living at home as an enabler to live a party boy lifestyle.
They rub their new toys and cars in my face, crack jokes about "you say you make all this money but drive an Acura".
I don't bother explaining how my property tax alone is twice the payment for their Corvette (which is in their Mom's name, as is the insurance...)
A lot of guys in your position will see how much better they fare than their counterparts from high school who never amounted to much. But likewise, they will all fall into the trap that is marriage and they will be forced to pay dearly for it.
I hope for your sake that you aren't entangled in that mess. Because while that 30 year old virgin may be living a shit life, he doesn't have to walk around in a metaphorical leash and cuffs for the rest of his life.
Don't worry about me.
Self made, self supporting, very comfortable.
Don't plan on kids, don't plan on marrying, just spinning plates and enjoying life to the fullest. Not settling down unless a unicorn sits on my face and deepthroats me.
I'd be more than willing to let my son crash at my place after college as long as he was both working in some capacity and also trying actively to find a real job, but dear god if he had the money to afford a boat I'd punt his ass out the door in a nanosecond.
My grandpa built a house on his own during the socialism, with help of friends and neighbors. There were no government restrictions, you just needed to buy land and material. My dad got apartment for free from the company where he worked. That company built a whole apartment complex just for their workers.
Socialism is long gone now. Jobs are scarce, and if you're a person with no work experience, your salary won't be enough to cover rent and food.
Keep your faith boys. A year ago I was making 10/hr now I'm more than 4 times that. Luck obviously plays a role, but keep working towards your own goals and you'll be fine.
Could you elaborate on your job? I'd love to hear your professional progression.
For sure I'm an engineer transitioning to product management at a small consulting firm in tech. I work remotely and am very grateful for all I have in life.
Knew nothing about code 2 years ago (I'm not a geek), starting self teaching January 2014 as instinct told me it's an absolutely vital skill to have moving forward in this society. Got fired from then 13/hr job, had to move in w/ my parents, had a girlfriend get killed (this all helped me gain a ton of humility). Got a 'job' at a tech spot for 10/hr. Started cold called/emailed other local startups asking for internships (visualize the win), got a short gig w/ a dude which payed really well/gained confidence in myself. Got fired from 10/hr job. Tried to start my own house cleaning business (ala localcasestudy). Fail. Got a 15/hr job off craigslist managing a player's web content for his million dollar scamming empire, got that up to 25/hr a couple months later (just asked). Took a Javascript night course at a local JC for networking and pussy. I was working on my final project when I found the FB post (had a 'test' assignment. coincidentally the job was for Javascript). Obviously only finished one of them. Asked for 30/hr, got that up to 40/hr couple months later unannounced and again a a couple months ago got another raise, and am expecting another soon w/ my new role.
Part of the cherry is that company that was paying me 10hr is now one of my new companies clients.
Moral is fall 7 times, get up 8. Have that goal that you can focus/visualize on when times are hard and stay positive.
[permanently deleted]
You hit the nail on the head! Many n american parents never want to treat their little boy or little girl like a man or woman. There are definitely families like yours around here but there are also many where the children just get treated like children.
[permanently deleted]
Dude how many people you know actually change their behavior? I suspect maybe 15-20% of thenpopulation is even capable of deep introspection and modified behavior.
Being a clan member can be a valid way of life in some societies, but us Americans typically value our independence. Once we're no longer dependent on our parents, we move out and begin functioning as an adult member of society. That's the theory, anyway. There has always been that percentage who lack the ability to make it on their own, and it seems like those numbers have risen dramatically. I would expect a large number of these failures-to-thrive to continue demonstrating dependence (parents, government, etc.) for much of their lives.
I'm beginning to think it's a cultural thing. I can never comment in threads like this because my experience and that of others where I live is the opposite. A lot of young adults here live with their parents well into their late twenties/early thirties. We're definitely a more family-oriented society (or at least relatively speaking). A shitty economy and overpriced housing is definitely a contributing factor though. If it isn't too intrusive to ask, where are situated country-wise? My theory is that those who live in more "traditional" societies aren't in as big a rush to leave home. That has been my experience here in the Caribbean.
Especially the retarded thing about going into debt to avoid parents lol
First, you have to understand that a lot of America's culture is completely fabricated by corporations. Men express their devotion to their woman through diamond rings because of the advertisements of companies like De Beers. Women smoke because of cigarette companies associating smoking with independence.
In America, moving out of the home has become a Male Rite of Passage. It is the initiation of Manhood/Adulthood and it's also the point where you take on loans and debts in order to sustain yourself.
I have the same question, dont get it why American's are so obssesed with the idea of moving out as soon as possible.
if you had religious parents living in the suburbs you would want to move out ASAP too.
Depends on what group of TRP's are reading. I agree with you but for some folks in TRP, they just care about fucking chicks and living with your parents is a negative regarding being alpha that girls don't usually like.
I only had one parent and I would feel like a major cunt if I ditched them, not because of social pressure but my own internal compass.
[permanently deleted]
I wish it was like that here too. In asian countries they have rooms just for watching movies with friends too. But I think people would just trash them and make them disgusting here in the states.
Both of my parents are abusive alcoholics with personality disorders. I wish them the best, but I want absolutely nothing to do with them. Moving out was imperative to my personal mental health. My mother also stole from me when I lived with her. My father will throw punches when he doesn't get his way.
[permanently deleted]
The older I get, the more people I meet with stories similar to mine. It very much is normal to have physical/emotionally abusive parents, and to want nothing to do with them. It most certainly does not make them ungrateful fucks.
I live in my Moms (was parents, Dad died) basement on the family acreage. Well, mostly just sleep down there.
It's a beautiful plot of land and I am very fortunate to live there. Yeah, I had to suck up my pride when I moved back in with them at 25 (30 now) I honestly wish I had done it sooner. I plan on buying the property from my Mom when she retires.
Despite living in my parents basement I've somehow still managed to have sex with 3 different women down there. (Thanks TRP)
I exercise. Work out. Have toys and it's an awesome party spot. My cat loves it too.
Not getting married. Not having kids. Mom leaves for holidays and business trips all the time.
Get past the living with your Mom thing, and I'm a decent guy to party with.
You have an advantage of your mom not being there alot. My mom was at my house all the time, no way I could bring women back to my place
My story is almost the same as you, feel kinda good when i read your post, salutes my friend.
lol same. Ive fucked two of the hottest women in my life in my rents basement. Like, I was getting laid less with less attractive women when I lived on my own near uni. If was more confident back then, this wouldnt be the case, but the point still stands. If youre using your basement dwelling position as an excuse not to get laid, it's on you more than anything
I wonder what the rates are of people with roommates. Most guy friends I know don't live solo.
Most millennials don't live solo.
If you're not interested in marriage/children why bother moving out of your parents' house? You don't need your own house unless you're starting a family, and there's no reason to make some landlord rich when you can just help your parents out with that money instead.
If I had a family to live with I would definitely move back in with them, and I'm 30. Paying rent sucks and dealing with roommates is a pain in the ass.
I am an old guy.
The American Left has wanted to take down middle class America for the past fifty years. Their plan was to flood America with immigrants, chase all the jobs overseas, degrade the middle class with anti-marriage propaganda, let women into the labor market to depress wages further, and make being male to be a disadvantage.
A lot of the Right here went along for the ride, as when Dubya said that outsourcing was good for America.
This has all come to pass. I did not like the 1960's era at all, but this economic change could have been accomplished with much less harm. Women could have come into the labor force. But women, immigrants, and automation, along with oursourcing, made it four times worse and insurmountable.
It is like the end of the Cretaceous. The dinosaurs could have withstood the asteroid impact, and could have withstood the Deccan Traps volcano, but both of them acting together were too much.
I'm of the same generation and have lived through the attack of the middle class over the last 40 years. What mellenials don't understand is they can change things. Tuition too high? Look at the UC regents making 350k a year and fire them. The public sector is the new socialist welfare program. Fireman making 200k a year with full retirement that they didn't pay for? Really? The public sector corruption is rampant, they should all be fired and start over. Stop complaining, get into office and change things, give up your Bernie socialist dreams and re-build the middle class.
You can't get into a meaningful political office without money.
It's a noble plan, but it's absolutely impossible. Feel free to find anyone in any public office worth a shit who's not already upper middle class.
The problem is that money buys power. Until we have publicly funded elections, it will continue to do so.
This is more a symptom of excessive government than male social change.
Was looking for this.. absolutely a symptom of government entering (and as government is wont to do, becoming a legal monopoly on) the 'provider' market. Women don't need men so long as government can give them welfare and benefits for those poor poor single mothers.. I'm interested to see how professional women start reacting when they realize that their taxes (especially if men aren't working as much and paying less taxes) are going to their single mother sisters but they aren't having children themselves.. Wonder how long female socialist tendencies last then.
this is not a TRP problem, its a Fed / Central Banks problem...
To help understand this phenomenon, look at this graph of wages versus productivity.
Contributing factors include overseas production recovering after WWII, arab oil embargo, outsourcing US manufacturing jobs, executives paid many multiples of production employees, real estate speculation, stagnant wages. I was born in the late 60s, my parent's generation could buy a house and raise a family on one income. Today, there are millions upon millions of Americans who work full time and take home below poverty level wages.
Laying all of this at the feet of the 35% of men living with their parents is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
I'm not talking about the ones who DON'T work and mooch off of their parents, I'm talking about men who work full time and can't afford the regional cost of living.
Doesn't matter American narratives always going to blame the unproductive for their circumstances. Piketty mentions this. Average people aren't intelligent/educated enough to fathom huge institutions & social change outside of their control.
-You're just a stupid, lazy, Fuck even if a elementary school teacher twerks on Vine to get rich & you're a dashing PhD who's field isn't hiring at the moment. The latters successful & you suck. Bottom-line our society measures results. Nothing else.
You know another interesting correlation with the "split date" on that chart (besides the massive bear market that took place in '73) is that 1973 is when the US Dollar officially became a fiat currency.
Thanks, I hadn't made that connection yet.
When I first swallowed TRP at 19 (I'm 21 now), the very first decision I made was move back in my parents and attend the university that is located in my city. The reason why I did that was because I was already ~$10,000 in student loan debt from living in a dorm room at a university across my state. Since net worth takes time to accumulate, the very first step I did was kill activities that brought it down (in this case, student loans).
Now that I moved back in, I can proudly say that I am receiving what is basically a full ride through my undergraduate STEM degree, am already paying off my loans and have access to two different homes (my parents are divorced) in a quality suburban area.
The whole "live it up while you're young!" crap gets drilled into people's heads nowadays in the United States, and a segment of this idea is that you must move out at age 18 right away. To get to school now, I take a city bus and after talking to a good chunk of the students that also live at home instead of "living it up", the script is quite similar: everything is expensive as Hell in this day and age, especially tuition, and students who work and go to school at the same time aren't getting paid jack shit.
Went to Texas State for a semester expecting to graduate from there after a few years of community college. NO jobs down there, no potential, not finding a mentor, talking to Bar tenders who are 28 and never left. Sure it was fun but the second I came back I realized I had spent almost 8 grand in a semester! Now I have an amazing sales position in a very posh area I plan to move to. Just shows that college is for people who never need to worry about money. It's not all it's cracked up to be. I am still living it up and adding to my NW.
I live with my parents because I enjoy saving an extra $2K/mo and they keep my dog company. I have a 6 figure income and I am doing pretty well.
Hmm the time for a revolution is getting closer and closer. Hopefully the disenfranchised males understand it is the oligarchy they need to liquidate instead of just lashing out at all the other unfortunate plebes.
I actually just moved back home with my parents in a city with a big technology sector. I just graduated with a CS degree. The job prospects are good, the rent is cheap, the city is beautiful. Don't see any reason why I shouldn't have done this, other than society's vestigial expectations from an era of cheap real estate.
I think people need to quit picking bullshit degrees. Your local university is like a used car lot. The counselor will sell you any dream you want, and the return on investment does NOT have to be there for them to keep making their $. They just need the steady stream of suckers who believe they can go after their dreams. Fuck your dreams. Find a degree or trade that has a good 10 year outlook, pays your bills adequately, and gives you freedom. Stop getting bull-shit philosophy/sociology/marketing/whatever degrees that are worthless.
It all depends on the university you're at with respect to what degree you're working to attain.
Obviously a digital art degree from DeVry university, Full Sail, or some other bullshit for-profit college isn't going to get you anywhere other than in a boat load of debt.
If you get your B.A. in philosophy from Columbia University with a 3.5GPA or higher, you'll probably have a rather large network upon graduating and not be struggling to find employment that pays well.
If you go to University of Alabama, study sociology, and just spend all of college partying, not working, no internships, no network, and graduate with like a 2.7 GPA, then yeah… You're probably going to have a hard time finding work related to your degree because you didn't take your education that seriously.
A degree is only "bullshit" if you bullshit your way to earn it. Colleges don't really give a fuck if you retain anything you were taught or didn't get anything out of your courses to apply to the real world. That's your responsibility.
You probably already have a rather good network if you get into landmark or Ivy League schools, or you are an affirmative action/feminist agenda acceptee. The VAST majority does not have the connections to get into such programs like Columbia.
So realistically, people need to have a plan for a career path with their degree and forego shitty degrees period.
I went to the U of A (Not Alabama) for my professional degree. I pick my employment contracts not due to the name of my school or my connections. I pick them through my proven resume and my place atop my profession. Connections don't get you everything. Nor does a fancy 1/4 million $ degree.That only works for the few lucky ones who get into such institutions based on connections.
I much prefer to rely on own professional self worth over relying on fickle connections or an expensive Uni price tag.
Not just Columbia.. I mean any private college that has a reputation for getting its students employment. A person could probably study english lit at NYU or anthropology at BU and find employment given they're passionate about their learning and do well in their courses.
There really isn't any such thing as a shitty degree, just shitty students who don't put in enough effort or just plain not passionate about the university/college experience.
Ive lived on my own for years and moved home a few years ago. I love it. I get to know my parents as adults, and live a high quality of life. girls don't mind, plates dont mind they usually love my old folks.
The thing it made me realize is, I don't plan to marry, and don't care to cohabit....so why would I want to own a house? I mean ever. If you gave me a million dollars I wouldn't move out from my parents, what the hell would I do with a two bedroom that I live in alone?
Men don't need much to be happy, I'd be happier in a cabin in the woods than in a typical house, those are for betas who are living in a fantasy.
Might feel different If I lived in the city, and I have, but I prefer the country vastly more...Easy access to women is the only drawback I've felt.
Meanwhile in Denmark (where my son lived) it's 1.8%. It's societies choice how this is handled. Basically most minorities are shut out of the job market and then education is less and less of a priority for society (while athletics are celebrated). It's choices and alternatives with a lot of young men chosing the wrong ones.
31yo, single, renting alone in tiny 1br apartment.
am getting a little sick and tired of my living-with-parents-still guy friends who are just rolling in expendable income, even from their menial jobs. part of me hates them for it and is just waiting for reality to catch up to them so i can feel justified for my efforts ; ;
I live with family. It sucks. Getting my own place soon however at does suck knowing I have eyes watching me 100% of the time.
Yeah income sucks. As the man you're supposed to be a provider and she lives at home until marriage or so. That's supposed to happen in Spanish cultures or something. I have a feeling women are going to try and use me as a provider once I have my own place. Nah its not happening.
Little by little I'm stacking paper and investing. Living underneath my means and looking to come out and have that high SMV on top by the age of 35.
Lift, save, invest, and watch all my friends turn into fat slobs and can't afford anything.
Yo you are going to work and what...just wait till you are 35 to start fucking? WTF? Bro you will not have fucking as an interest by then (no offense to anyone trying to prove a point) Get that SMV pumping upwards on a daily basis and have it on the climb by 22-23. Girls aren't complex.
Maybe I should have worded it differently. Smv increases weekly but I'm playing the end game for 35 by financials. In in my late 20s for what it's worth.
Aiming to drop another 10 pounds and see what happens within the next 4 months. Previous fat ass now just under 20% bf. Goal is to be as ripped as possible by December and freak out the family and stat true to myself.
I'll probably get lost in the sea of comments, but I'm 23 and living with my parents. Let me explain it, though.
I'm a Veteran, who's getting 90% of the GI Bill because I tried to pop my dome piece with my service rifle after coming back from afghan. Fun times. Not looking for sympathy, that's just part of the explanation.
Because of that, I only get 90% of the GI Bill's Basic Allowance for Housing. Living in Hawaii, that means it's proportionally increased to adjust for the very high cost of living. Going as a full time student, even with that 10% missing, I still get a check of roughly $2,700 for every full month of class I complete (with half checks for half months, since the semesters start and end in the middle of months.)
I've been doing this for about three semesters now, moving onto my fourth. And even with spending boatloads of money on cigarettes before (recently quit) and booze (Had a bad drinking problem, thanks marine corps!) and having to take care of the auto repair bill for my family's only car(close to 4 grand so far IIRC), I still have $12k in my savings account.
Why?
Because not getting laid every other night is a small price to pay for living rent free.
Needless to say, not every young man who stays at home is a jobless loser. Some of us are lazy ass vets who just want to move on with our lives, but are having difficulty doing so. Or are going to college.
[deleted]
5.56. Bullet was a dud, surprisingly enough. Put the M4 barrel in my mouth, pulled the trigger, click, no fire. After that, I decided that was God telling me to not be a retard.
What everyone is forgetting here, is that men who can't provide for themselves are of VERY LOW status. Even when the women are blowing their shafts, they do it condescendingly and out of pity. This dynamic is at best "mother-son", and at worst "princess-slave" kind of relationship. And they will NEVER want to be seen with that kind of guy in public. What a horrible life for a dude.
I know enough men who do nothing out of their life, but doing drugs, partying hard and fucking a lot of girls. you don't need money for girls if you are crazy, on drugs, know a lot of people (because you are out every day and night) and can do whatever you like whenever you like it.
Well, ya, drugs and booze always lowers people's inhibitions. But this has nothing to do with the young men crisis we are talking about. If you always need drugs and booze to get close to women who will only get close to you when they are full of drugs and booze, there is obviously something wrong with this picture.
I'm one of those men.
I recently landed my first job in my field. The company happens to be less than 5 min away from my parents house. I will have no problem affording moving out, but I will stay home for at least a year so I can get settled in at work (and finish school. Only one semester remaining).
i get job offers all the time specifically looking for woman, its just not fair why is it ok to be so blatantly be so sexist, when will there be quotas to be meet for male hires?
Being 27, this makes me feel less bad for moving back in with my parents. Financially it makes sense til I have a stable job and building up a savings for a home. Then again I'm transitioning out of the military so I'd say it's a particular reason. I've heard my generation called the boomerang generation because we'll venture far away and the end up back home.
I don't understand why there is no violence and violent protests, or war. the cost of living has become immensely high and mass corruption, on an international level, has never been this high, in the history of our species.
Also, that's not even mentioning mass censorship, drug policies and third wave feminism.
Apparently people enjoy being stepped on because this is the state of our species and it has never looked this bad.
The people have been doing it to themselves for decades by slowly but consistently socializing our country.
My favorite part. What an amazing fact. Social security or whatever you want to call it is literally a Ponzi scheme. I believe Ponzi schemes are illegal ha. It's all a lie.
Otherwise, mediocre post. Lots of work to put in to express the man's plight.
I lived with my parents for the last year before moving abroad and I was bringing home different girls on the regular. I had a job mind you.
I made sure to talk to my parents, discuss and establish boundaries, and I told them it was no disrespect. They never expressed a problem with it.
My uncle lived the life. He's just died no wife no kids. Always did what ever he wanted whenever he wanted because he had money from being a captain for American Airlines.
No parents but if i did have them i wouldnt be ashamed of living with them. Goals over relationships.
The best way to do this is to get one of those "female friendly job" and rock the shit out of it. Aint nothing wrong with being a nurse or a teacher, better than working for enterprise.
I have 3 sons and if every bit of money they have goes to college, they can hang in my garage as long as they wish. I'm sick of hearing this millennial bullshit too. They didn't choose their economy and had zero control over it when it counted.
The government in many western countries has pretty much setup this situation for the economy and western men.
Naturally, all of this would lead to men staying at home longer - but nothing will change since the Matriarchy doesnt care as it doesnt impact them yet.
The best way to enact change is to support men anyway you can, use tax shelters to starve the beast, dont volunteer unless its for male causes (ie. homeless shelter), dont help law enforcement, and dont enroll in the army. The last thing you want to do is to support the system that is oppressing you, and to slow down its collapse.
I, for one, take comfort in knowing you limp-dick retards will never procreate.
That's harsh, brother. I mean I'm married and have my own money pit of a house, and everytime I break out the power tools to do work or drop my cash at 84 lumber I wish I lived at home or bought a cheap single wide trailer or something.
[permanently deleted]
Imagine maintaining a house that has 60 years of questionable remodels. I can't even do this shit justice. I don't blame the home inspector, I didn't find a lot of these shenanigans until I started tearing stuff out.
strong agreement with what DarthExero said.
However there is an upside to this, tighter families mean a healthier society and there is no reason the atomized nuclear family needs to stay around.
Control freaks hate them but clans and tribes are power that with time and a little luck effort anyone can have. With a strong family, you can have nearly everything you need supplied by kin . This will gut the modern economy but so what, family above all else .
As for a correction, its not really going to be allowed to happen for as long as possible if the PTB's have anything to say about it. When it does probably by the house of cards collapsing no guarantee that it will help much.
Modern society is caught in an efficiency trap. Most of the new tech we create is destabilizing. The arch example is Craigslist
It created 35 good jobs in SF, worthy and noble. It basically destroyed the main revenue source for hundreds of newspapers, penny dailys and probably cost 35,000 or more jobs. Maybe 10x that
The same thing is differing measure effects every single industry, travel planning, marketing, manufacturing, you name it gutted.
No jobs, no consumption and even if housing prices are allowed to plummet and foreign and bank ownership banned, people still won't have stable incomes.
Here is the thing, this is not a new problem . The economy started to die back in the 1930's. Still back than we had a larger need for labor than now. We got a reprieve simply because Europe was destroyed in WW2 and the US was basically the only show in town .
Despite that we still had heavy regulation, 40 hour work week (it would have been 30 but that was sabotaged) child labor laws and a vast vast expansion of government .
Also re: low fertility Even the baby boom was only a reprieve and growth came from low infant levels combined with a normal birth level
Adjusted for those infant mortality levels the US was below replacement in the depression , and into WW2 (infant mortality was 6x higher than now in 1940 ) dropped back replacement native fertility on the US by 1970 to 1975 , dropped to below in 1976 and have never risen above it. Ever
And mass immigration to make up the difference isn't going to help. The only people with high fertility rates outside the religious have IQ's around 80-90 or so,
Hell even Mexico is at or near replacement
The new imports basically have guaranteed an ethnic war and social collapse since none of the new groups can sustain the society
In the end if society survives it will be authoritarian, patriarchal and economically heavily regulated and if it doesn't it will still be authoritarian, patriarchal and heavily regulated
[permanently deleted]
We have a top down religious state now , its designed around Democracy, Direction and Peace . Its typically called The Cathedral after the term Mencious Moldbug uses
Its a suicide pact basically, any society effected with it starts to die off. Every single society with that meme has subreplacement fertility both from its memes and from the economy
The only sub groups that don't and are not Muslim are patriarchal typically LDS and Orthodox Jews
The only other alternative is those for a political religion is Islam and that means an end to modernity
I'm not as sure about the house wife equation as you. In any case if few people have jobs , few people have families,.
In order to keep society operating you end up with a truly huge welfare state, one where people can afford something other than a concrete slab ala Stalinist architecture n plus medical. necessitates taxing and redistributing half of the GDP for that alone
On top of that day to day expense plus a functioning military is another 16% or more. Throw in state taxes and you have spending of say 75% of the GDP by the State.
Its defacto Communism and it will erode productivity badly
Now as for art output, its alas irrelevant. Hit YouTube or Deviant Art. Once you've sorted through the trash , you'll find there is more art output than there has ever been before, more content and more ideas,
They aren't growing the economy simply because the volume erodes the value. A few people an get a patron but its not a foundation for an economy.
An economy is material , mostly goods this can include E-Goods with a smattering of trades ot service based.
I suspect if we go full robot and you should never go full robot, we'll end up with a TFR of around 1.5 forever and either will be replaced with low IQ imports from Africa or other more natal areas, implode into war or if the border is closed, simply die back
The only option that will work will be authoritarian, patriarchal, economically regulated and traditionalist (I forget the last)
Millenials - feeling sorry for yourself isnt going to help anything. Lots of blame being placed on the current economic state or prior generations. The fact is, this is still America and you have the ability to have a very successful career. No, things arent the way they used to be. However, I will say that the millenial generation is indeed pretty lazy, and easily discouraged. Those who are willing to put in the effort will be rewarded by the sheer fact that all of your peers already gave up.
I did it for a year whilst doing my masters a while ago and left immediately (actually a month or so before handing in my thesis). That was practical
I live in Montreal suburbs. I've been through my finances over and over again and I can't buy by myself. My parents have been nice enoguh to let me stay at home and rack money to put on house payment but then I'll just burn through my savings unless I literally live with food/mortage unless. Literally 0 extra expenses unless I'd live in like a fucking shed. I make about 45-50K a year before taxes which mean I have about 25K to spend. Most houses, basic stuff is roughly 250K before interests and all that jazz. I just can't buy alone and it's extremely frustrating.
This is the current situation for both myself and my brother. We both have jobs, just finished our bachelors and are working towards masters to be competitive in the fields we enjoy. Though, even with our combined incomes we are having a hard time getting a home in this market. We could do an apartment, but we'd both rather have property to invest in.
24M at home right now, have $$ to live alone (50k) and planning to do so this year, have previously as well. 50k cash on hand isn't even enough for a down payment where I'm at.
If either of my parents owned and I stood to inherit the house I would probably not leave (would be different if they had 30 years left, they don't). That might have something to do with it.
Higher fem stat is reflective of the easy ability to move in with a boyfriend, often for free to reduced share of rent, but also the higher proclivity of females to cohouse with their gender (roommates), as there is more social responsibility on men to provide a dedicated environment to host.
This is me right now.
I'm 20 and living with mom, with no job. No money in my savings. And damn near every day I dream my Lamborghini. I checked our No More Mr. Nice Guy from the library today. I am changing shit around.
In Mexico it's pretty common to move out until you get married unless either you don't plan to or want to bang lots of girls. It's nothing out of the ordinary, and really lots of people around here think it's weird that some hurry up to move to their own place so much, what with the cost and all.
Guys like you are what keep me coming back here. Yeah, I enjoy helping the newbs swallow the rp - but I've met some really cool guys here. You're on the list, for whatever's that's worth ;)
The "Nerd Rapture" comment had me laughing so hard. I imagine I'm supplying the machine with a certain amount of brain power myself. Although some give more than I ever could.
Probably want to ease up on the 'funnily' nest time.
Da fuk kinda jedi mind trick is this shit?
Wish I could afford to live on my own, rent in Los Angeles is ridiculous.
[permanently deleted]
Its all about the quality pussy
I'm seeing a larger trend where I live, of people buying multi-generational houses so the grandkids don't have to be brought up in an apartment or condo.
Smart people, mostly immigrants, do this. Because of that its the future. The middle class is dying, people buy property now to be passed down generations with generations living in them.
Isn't that the way that it's always been?
I'm glad I'm divorced and the wife is saddled with the kids. No way they are staying with me until 35. After all the brainwashing, they probably wouldn't want to either.
What annoys me so much is people try to sell this as an alpha/beta thing, when it just isn't realistic or sensible to move out unless you're in a relationship imo.
I'm pretty much 100% sure i won't be doing any long term relationships, and as such, i would have to pay for a place on my own, the council tax, bills, food etc. I'm on 25K(£), which means i could probably do it, but throw in the fact that i need a car for work and suddenly that figure gets cut into.
The house i live in now (with parents) is in a safe, quiet, beautiful area, and i'm pretty much left alone. i don't really see a reason to leave, other than the fact that living at home means 100% i cannot bring chicks back. (Parents are total, total prudes)
Moving out will also limit my flexibility a lot. What if i want to change career? Go back into education? (I pay my parents a fair amount of rent so i'd have to work still, but it less)
Honestly the reasons why we're in this state have been listed below, Boomers, suicidal immigration policy, the neutering of modern men, their position in society, pathetic interest rates etc.
I don't see it getting any better
Unless they're the hot bad boy and all they do is work out and sponge of the parents
This is me, at 23. Why would I ever get a job, deal with stress and fuck up my workouts/diet if I can just stay and fuck girls who have their own place?
Yeah but besides food ninen
This makes shit easier. That and many men becoming MGTOWs means easy pusy. Consider the average man: 20 lbs overweight, bad haircut, didn't finish college, no beard or unkempt beard, under 6ft. I thought the same thing that I would never get a job but kept at it and now I work a great job
What do you mean 'speak different languages', just curious.
I'm 46 & live with my mom. I finished college terribly in debt & the only job I could get was a temp job for $4.50 an hour. My mother was in tough shape because she'd cared for her mom who passed away. She had no money. Staying together worked. We had no car so I didn't learn to drive at 16. I finally learned at 34. Unfortunately, the job market in my area stinks. I'm now making about $25,000 per year. I'm out of debt. My mother is in better financial shape. I just want to help her save some. I never thought I'd still live at home. I've worked hard. I've worked two jobs. My mom worked two jobs. Life is tough. I just try to enjoy as much as I can.
Lots of hamstering in this post.
If you want to live at home during college, fine.
If you need to live at home for a few months after graduating to get settled in financially before getting your own place, fine.
But at some point you need to man up and take responsibility for yourself and become dependent on no one but yourself.
I get that times are tough and the housing market is not favorable to younger generations. But there are still plenty of cities/states out there with low cost of living. When I lived in Iowa I paid $600 a month for a 1,000 square foot brand new apartment. I could have afforded that with just a minimum wage job.
"But but but that's Iowa! No one wants to live there! That's why its so cheap! I'd rather live in a fun big city like NYC or LA"
Well then good luck! If you can afford it good for you. Living on your own in a big city is no different from a baseball player. A pro baseball player has to start in the minor leagues, they aren't starting off in the big leagues right away. Where you live is the same way. It's hard to start off living on your own in some big city right off the bat. You have to work your way up(if you want to do that).
Living in a big city is overrated. It's not worth the exponentially higher cost of living. I live in Seattle right now and pay nearly 3x as much as I did in Iowa for an apartment 2.5 times smaller. I'd rather have the extra money any day of the week. Plus in Iowa I didn't have to deal with SJWs everywhere and homeless people everywhere.
So you're telling 35% of men to go live in Iowa?
I know plenty of guys making 65k plus still living with family because that's the economical thing to do. Not because they depend on their parents.
Why the fuck would anyone choose to rent an apartment and bleed out $1800 a month, when they can choose to stay with their parents, save money for 10 years, and then be able to own a house in those 10 years time?
Whenever I hear the term "man up" it's never to get guys to do something in their best interests or to do something intelligent. It's always to do something really really stupid, or something that ultimately doesn't benefit the guy.
I've lived by myself paying $500 a month rent (on a living room mattress with 3 other people) vs living with my family in my own room. And it's fucking STUPID to live outside of the house for the sake of "being a man". I literally pushed out my student loan debts 4 years longer than it would have taken just living at home.
I could have paid off my student loan debt, started actual savings, and maybe ACTUALLY own a house with that money.
Also, the idea that everyone should just move to bumble fuck town is outside the scope for white collar people. Good white collar jobs are gonna be in big cities. You think people only move to areas because of low rent? They move to big cities because THAT'S WHERE THE JOBS ARE.
Dude, here's your problem:
-Fortunately personally my industries large selective & exclusive(not that an alternative to IT) however that's a proxy for one of the largest white-collar industries in America.
the places in the United States where there's a better job-market are rife with the highest inequalities & property values. It makes it unbelievably difficult to escape 'Middle-America' unless you already have leverage, resources, opportunities &/or high up social connections