A complete guide to picking up 9s and 10s
Today I want to tell you everything I know about getting the highest calibre girls from cold approach.
This guide will cover: frame control, inner game, and passing tests — which I consider to be the holy trinity of “9 and 10 game”.
This guide will NOT cover: body language, pulling, or handling logistics. Obviously, the latter are extremely important, but they’ve been adequately covered elsewhere, and there just isn’t space to include them here.
My background
Picked on in school, small and sickly, didn’t have a girlfriend until 18. Was dumped by her and spent the first 2 years of college pretty much celibate.
Got into redpill ideas through the old “Citizen Renegade” blog (which is now Heartiste). From there stumbled on RSD’s infield videos.
Started going out and approaching regularly. Approach anxiety and ceaseless rejection for months, but I kept at it. The odd success here and there.
After about 2 years I was fucking a new girl every fortnight or so, mostly 7s and 8s with the occasional turbo when fortune smiled on me. My current girlfriend is a 9, has done modelling etc.
Below is everything I know about getting the hottest women from cold approach pickup. This is specially engineered for getting 9s and 10s and dealing with the kind of bullshit these girls will inevitably give you.
If you’re more into sleeping with tons of 7s (and there’s nothing wrong with that), this might be overkill.
When I was single I personally was one of those guys who would rather fuck half a dozen 9s/10s in a year than 50 mid range girls, so my whole approach to game is based on optimizing for that.
Take it for what it is — I’m not saying my approach is better, this is just how I roll based on my preferences.
This is a long post. You may want to bookmark it and return to it later if you’re particularly concerned with getting the hottest girls. There’s a lot of subtle points in here that won’t be immediately clear on a first reading.
PART 1: THE ATTRACTION PROCESS
1. Women are attracted to you because you have a stronger frame than they do.
That’s all.
There’s nothing else to it.
Attraction is purely a function of the fact that:
1. you’re a man
2. you have a stronger frame than the girl
As a man, you naturally have a strong frame of reality whereas women don’t. Therefore they value that. (Having a strong frame is a result of high testosterone levels.)
2. Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one
Evolution has designed women to be very flexible in terms of who they’ll become attracted to.
Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame (i.e. a natural leader) than a handsome guy with a weak frame (cowardice, uncertainty).
That’s because women who chose to fuck the latter ultimately had their genes rooted out of existence by the brutal conditions of ancestral life.
In consequence, women now are very adaptable. They have the capacity to be attracted to almost ANY man so long as his frame is stronger than hers.
3. A girl can ONLY get horny for you if you have a stronger frame than her.
Think of this like a mathematical equation. There’s no getting around it, no cheating it, no short-circuiting it. It is an immutable law.
Women want to submit to you. They want to submit to a strong man. But she can’t submit to you if your frame is weaker than hers.
Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible.
4. “Be a man. Act like you have answers.” (Bill Burr)
What is a strong frame? Fundamentally, it’s a sense of certainty in everything you do. This certainty manifests itself as calmness in the face of social pressure.
Simply put, in a cold approach pickup, the woman becomes attracted to you because you’re more relaxed than she is.
That’s all.
That might seem strange, but it’s actually not.
The very fact that you approached the girl at all demonstrates a massive amount of confidence and social value (either real or potential).
So once you’ve approached the girl and gotten her into a conversation, the game is yours to lose. She’ll inevitably become attracted to you because you’re a man, and because you have a stronger frame than she does.
5. Relax
You will approach women, and you will make mistakes. That’s fine. Women don’t want you to be perfect. They only want you to be a man.
You are not physically perfect. Neither am I. Neither is anyone.
Women are not looking for perfection. They’re only looking for a man who has a stronger psychological frame than they do.
And fortunately for you, you already have a naturally stronger frame than women.
An example of this is how women will freak out over spiders or mice, jump up and down, scream, and so on, whereas a man will calmly deal with the situation without it breaking his frame.
6. She tests your frame to test your masculinity. The two are the exact same thing.
Women are attracted to masculinity. And masculinity can be defined as a measure of how much pressure a man can endure without it breaking his frame.
When you approach a hot woman, she immediately starts trying to break down your frame.
She’s testing it for strength.
If your frame crumbles in the face of her frame, she knows you’re not a man — because men have a stronger frame than women.
Fortunately, your frame will not crumble. A girl’s frame will always “buckle” under yours after you pass several of her tests. It’s instinctual. Women want to be with the strong man. When she sees you have a strong frame she starts getting wet.
7. “Listen, smile, nod, agree — then do what the fuck you were gonna do anyway.” (Robert Downey Jr.)
Women test me all the time. Women have said things to me that are totally brutal — called me ugly, too short, a loser, etc.
Most of the women I approach will make a weird face or pretend to ignore me for the first 10-20 seconds.
It doesn’t penetrate. It doesn’t cause any emotional reaction whatsoever inside me. I smile, nod, agree and then keep talking to her as if she’s being nice to me.
Eventually, she starts responding. Then she starts laughing. And then we have sex.
A woman’s frame will ALWAYS buckle under yours. It’s not a question of “if”, but “when”.
8. Chasing hot girls gives you a “charge”
When you’re first getting into game, it’s fine to only approach 5s and 6s.
Many of these girls will be super nice to you, and that’s cool. A lot of them are fantastic in bed.
But once you start to get some experience, you’re naturally going to want to move up the ladder and start laying 8s, 9s and 10s.
This is a natural instinct, and it’s good. It’s okay to chase girls just because they’re hot. These girls want you to chase them. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t make themselves hot.
Part of being a man is that you can appreciate a woman’s beauty and femininity. It gives you a charge. And pursuing women who are “out of your league” (by society’s false standards) also gives you a charge.
9. Seducing a 9 is no different from seducing a 5
The process of attraction is exactly the same. The only difference is that the hot girl’s frame is stronger than the chubby girl’s.
But ultimately, no matter how strong a hottie’s frame is, your frame will always be stronger, because you’re a man.
10. Women will test you brutally when they want to sleep with you
When you approach any hot girl, she’ll test your frame HARD to see if it’s strong.
She’ll act like a bitch. She’ll pretend to ignore you. She’ll tell you outright to go away.
She wants to see if you’ll buckle to social pressure, or if your frame will remain calm and consistent regardless of external feedback.
She actually WANTS to sleep with you — but she needs to test your strength first.
Don’t be fooled by the bitch persona for a second. It’s a carefully cultivated TEST.
Most men fail the test because they don’t even realize they’re being tested.
11. Fight Club analogy
Getting a hot woman into bed is like the hazing scene in Fight Club where the new recruits are lined up outside the door.
Tyler berates the recruits with personal insults. “Too old, go away.” “Too fat, go away.”
He forces them to stand outside for days. He tells them there’s no possibility they’re getting in. Most give up. But the few who stay are ultimately invited inside.
Seducing the hottest women is the same. It’s a WAR OF ATTRITION.
Women will fuck pretty much any guy who’s around at the end of the night so long as he has a stronger frame than she does.
But you have to stick around. You can’t leave when she insults you or acts like she doesn’t want to talk to you. If you do, you’re failing her tests.
We’ll get into the mechanics of passing these tests in a moment. First we need to talk about inner game, which is the basis of out-framing anyone.
PART 2: INNER GAME
12. The battle is won or lost inside you before it’s ever fought
We’ve said that the only way to AROUSE a woman to the point that she wants to sleep with you off cold approach is to pass her tests.
How do you pass these tests?
The first principle is to understand is that all tests are FRAME tests. The entire purpose of tests is to see if you have a strong frame that won’t buckle under pressure.
Therefore, it’s useless begin with talking about “how to pass tests”. The real value is in having a strong frame to begin with. As Sun Tzu says in the Art of War, “every battle is won or lost before it’s ever fought.”
13. The “I am enough” frame = the gold dust that gets you 9s and 10s
The basis of your inner game is the idea that “you are enough”. In other words, you have value to women simply because you’re a man.
Everything else is built upon that foundation.
You don’t have to “do” anything to attract a girl. She’s attracted to you simply because you’re more relaxed than she is.
You don’t have to change anything. You don’t have to improve your “game” beyond what it’s at now. You don’t need to become better looking.
You CAN do all these things if you want and they will help you. But you don’t have to.
You’re already “good enough” simply because you’re a man — because you’ve got testosterone and a dick. Women value that.
14. Men and women are meant to get together
We fit together like a key and a lock.
There have been studies done in which women smell men’s sweaty t-shirts, and it changes the chemistry of their brain — making them more relaxed and calm.
Your “male-ness” is inherently attractive to women. Same way as their femininity is inherently attractive to you.
15. Standards are a myth — everyone is a horny scoundrel
We have been brainwashed in our culture into believing that people (women) have something called “standards”.
Women don’t have any standards — not really. Neither do men.
Imagine you’re naked in bed with a “4”. She’s kinda chubby, plain face, you probably wouldn’t be proud of the lay, whatever. But her skin’s soft, she smells good, and she’s naked and wet.
Are you going to say no?
Probably not, if we’re being honest with each other. You’d almost definitely fuck her if you could be CERTAIN that (a) she’d leave afterwards, and (b) no one would find out.
There’s a natural magnetism between men and women. We have no willpower around each other.
Women are the same way. Take it from someone who’s “shot out of his league” too many times to count.
16. Be her cheat meal
You can be a “4” and she can be a “9”. If the circumstances are right, she’ll fuck you so long as there’s no downside. Why? Because sex feels good.
Even the hottest, slimmest yoga bunny pigs out on pizza every once in a while. It’s human nature. We’re not strong. We’re weak.
We pretend to have “standards” to the outside world. But down deep inside, no one has any standards, and we know it. We have no will, no self-control.
Hot women are the same.
If you can hold frame, pass a woman’s test, and lead her to somewhere sex can happen while creating plausible deniability, she WILL fuck you.
You’d be amazed how easy it is when you get it down.
17. Stop thinking you need to be an “alpha” to get hot girls — helpful at first but it will ultimately stress you out
Your frame is: “I am enough.”
Your frame is NOT “I’m a badass alpha who’s better than everyone”.
That’s hard to uphold in the face of conflicting evidence, and will cause cognitive dissonance and stress.
It’s simply: “Women and men are meant to get together. I’m a man. Therefore, women are already attracted to me on some baseline level.”
That’s not a hard frame to maintain. It doesn’t stretch the truth. It doesn’t cause cognitive dissonance.
And therefore it’s MUCH MORE RESILIENT in the face of tests and resistance — which is the most CRITICAL element to getting the hottest girls.
18. Cultivate a “reality distortion field”
In order to do this, you must fully INTERNALIZE the “I am enough” belief system.
Understanding it in theory isn’t enough. You have to feel it with your whole “mass”. You have to believe it with total, unquestioning, brainwashed conviction.
The more you think about the idea that there’s no reason you’re not enough, the more it will feel “true”. (Things become true to us through repetition, not through logic.)
Use self-hypnosis if necessary. Find every reason you can to support the belief that you’re enough, while cultivating “deliberate blindness” to anything that contradicts it.
Don’t be a slave to logic. Make logic a slave to you. This is how you cultivate a “reality distortion field”.
PART 3: HOW TO MAKE WOMEN HORNY BY PASSING THEIR TESTS
19. Enduring tests = building attraction
When you approach a woman, she immediately starts testing you. By passing her tests, you demonstrate that your frame is stronger than hers. This makes her horny for you.
Women are wired in such a way that they can’t become wet for a man unless he’s overcome some kind of resistance to get her. Hence, tests actually help you to seduce her. You want her to test you. The more tests you endure, the faster she’ll sleep with you.
When a girl is so into you that she doesn’t test you, this is how you end up on a 3rd date with a woman who still won’t put out.
Tests are your friend.
20. Passing tests is where ALL attraction is ultimately generated.
Attraction is NOT generated by pickup lines and witty comebacks.
Attraction is NOT generated by manipulation techniques.
Attraction is NOT generated by looks or money.
All of these things WILL increase your probabilities of getting laid, and make your game smoother and more streamlined.
But they’re NOT what builds ATTRACTION.
The one and ONLY thing that builds attraction is ENDURING A WOMAN’S TESTS.
The reason for this is obvious when you think about it:
21. Enduring her tests = ability to overcome adversity = GOOD GENES
Women have to see you have a strong frame, because otherwise they have no confidence that you’ll be able to protect them and remain calm in the face of danger.
And the ONLY way they can figure out if you have strong frame is by testing you, being bitchy, insulting you, brushing you off, ignoring you, etc.
That might seem “unfair” to you.
But if you can’t handle the abuse from some blonde chick in a bar, how the fuck are you going to handle beating a 7ft tall man to death with your bare hands when he and his tribe invade your village and try to gang-rape your girl?
Think about it.
22. Women aren’t built for Starbucks. They’re built for the African savannah.
Women aren’t built for the modern world. They’re built for nature, red in tooth and claw.
If you understand that, you’ll do things differently. You won’t take it so personally when you approach a girl and she tries to destroy you.
It’s necessary.
Hot women aren’t acting bitchy to you because of feminism. They’re acting bitchy to you because they WANT to fuck you — but they can only do so after they’ve proved that you have a stronger frame than they do.
This is instinctual. It’s part of the natural order.
Innate female bitchiness existed long before feminism. Testing men who approach them is encoded into female DNA.
When you get bitter at hot women for testing you, you’re being just as anti-nature as feminists themselves.
23. Eliminate self-destructive beliefs
There’s a common myth in the seduction community that a girl who acts “bitchy” to your approach is fundamentally flawed and therefore “not worth pursuing”.
This is totally ludicrous.
In fact, it’s just an incidence of “sour grapes” — cognitive games we play with ourselves to rationalize that the grapes we can’t reach are sour.
The reality is that if a girl has ANY VALUE WHATSOEVER, then she will test you hard during your first approach.
24. Embrace tests
Do you want a woman who says yes to every cock who comes along without putting up the slightest resistance?
Or do you want a woman who actually DISCRIMINATES among men based on their value — and who CHOSE YOU over hundreds of other suitors because you had the highest value?
If you’re a normal, healthy man, you want the second woman — and that means you must LOGICALLY EXPECT her to test you hard, and to test you with everything she’s got.
And you must not only expect tests, but APPRECIATE them.
You LIKE it when a girl acts bitchy on your approach. It means that if you settle down with her, she’s likely to act bitchy to OTHER GUYS who approach her, scaring them away.
The higher a woman’s value (in looks and character), the harder she will test you by ACTING “boring” and “bitchy”. This is the way it is and will be. This way and not some other way.
Luckily, passing tests is the fastest way to create arousal and horniness. This means that, paradoxically, the hottest women are often the easiest to seduce if you know how to pass their tests.
THE TWO CATEGORIES OF “TESTS” HOT GIRLS WILL GIVE YOU, AND HOW TO PASS THEM
Women will give you two types of tests — active tests and passive tests.
25. Active tests
Active tests are covered frequently in PUA literature.
When a woman insults you, belittles you, mocks you, or says something provocative to get a reaction — these are all examples of active tests.
Common “brush-off” lines like telling you she has a boyfriend, saying you’re a nice guy, telling you LJBF — these are also active tests.
I won’t talk much about passing active tests as this material has already been done to death in the redpill/PUA world. (Just look up anything on “shit tests”.)
Suffice to say, the best way to pass active tests is to either:
a. Agree and amplify.
b. Ignore the test and continue as if you didn’t even hear it.
Generally speaking, getting active tests is VERY GOOD. If the girl’s actively testing you, it means she’s definitely interested. It’s also a very easy way to demonstrate your strength of frame by being a charming asshole in response.
26. How to get past her “bitch shield” persona and into her knickers: recognize and endure passive tests
But there is another type of test, which is MUCH more important to understand.
This is the PASSIVE TEST. This is almost NEVER covered by PUA/redpill literature — yet these tests are actually the most COMMON you’ll encounter, particularly when dealing with 9s and 10s.
Passive testing happens when you approach a girl and she appears to be INDIFFERENT, BORED, or ALOOF.
“Resting bitch face” is a passive test. Giving you only one word answers is a passive test.
And — my favorite — when you go to approach a hot girl and she looks at you with a face of half-disgust, half-horror, and runs away.
Utterly BRUTAL as it seems — yes, even THAT is a test.
27. Don’t confuse passive tests with “rejection”
99% of guys interpret passive tests as REJECTION. Even natural alphas do.
And that’s totally understandable.
I mean, it makes sense right?
If you approach a stunner and she takes one look at you before making a “creeped out” face to her friend, and then they run away — that’s obviously a rejection, right?
Well, what if I told you that at least half the women I’ve slept with in my life reacted like that (or similarly badly) when I approached them?
Here’s a particularly good example:
28. “Rejection” is not rejection
There was this girl I went to college with. Brunette, hot, did modeling work in her spare time, socially was one step down from a “minor celebrity” in my city.
Probably one of the 10 or 15 hottest girls in my college.
I always wanted to fuck this girl, because she seemed smart and interesting as well as just hot. But I rarely saw her around.
One day she passed me in the stairwell, and I thought “this is probably the only chance I’m ever going to get”.
So I approached her and blurted. “Hi, I’m Mike”. Good eye contact. Held my hand out to shake hers. Whatever.
She looked at me like I had leprosy.
I mean, she literally RECOILED. Her eyes went wide in horror, as if I was trying to infect her with AIDS.
She shook my hand limply and muttered some social nicety back, then ran away swiftly.
WOW… Now THAT’S a rejection, right?
Well, the story has an addendum. That woman is now my girlfriend. Has been for three years. She’ll probably be the mother of my children.
So what’s going on here?
If she was attracted to me (which she later told me she was), why did she appear to “reject” me?
Answering this question is the THE KEY to mastering all of game and social dynamics. You ready?
Ok, here we go:
29. You are TOO HIGH VALUE
Yes, you read that correctly.
When you’re getting “rejected” by girls, it’s because YOU’RE TOO HIGH VALUE FOR THEM, and it makes them nervous and self-conscious.
Stay with me here. I know this sounds paradoxical, but try to grasp it.
30. Women are nervous around you
When you approach a woman out of the blue, it demonstrates a LOT of value. More than you probably realize.
This is because 97% of guys DON’T APPROACH AT ALL. (Those who do are usually drunk and sloppy.)
This means that if you’re an average to fair looking guy, and you cold approach a girl, you’ve just put yourself in the top 3% of men in terms of confidence.
In other words, she is going to naturally ASSUME that you are an alpha male (whether this is true or not).
This makes her NERVOUS and SELF-CONSCIOUS. She’s ill at ease around you because she wants to make a good impression.
So she tries to act “cool”, “aloof”, and “standoffish”… because she feels awkward.
She says bitchy things… because she can’t think of anything else to say.
She run aways… because she feels anxious around you and doesn’t know what to do next.
In other words: you’re coming across as TOO HIGH VALUE.
Women are nervous around you. Be patient with them!
Dumb yourself down. Hold frame, tease them, keep smiling warmly.
Eventually they’ll open up and start laughing, flirting back, and ultimately get turned on by the fact that you out-framed them in a way no other man ever has.
BONUS: THE 6 MOST COMMON TESTS HOT GIRLS WILL GIVE YOU AND HOW TO PASS THEM IN A WAY THAT BUILDS ATTRACTION
#1. You approach her, say hi, and she makes a weird face, or pretends to ignore you.
Simply keep talking as if you expect her to talk back. She’s nervous and self-conscious and doesn’t know what to say. That’s why she’s acting “bitchy” — you’re too high value for her and she feels anxious, causing her to try to act cool.
Don’t react to her. Keep your body language open and relaxed. Warm smile, unwavering eye contact. Keep talking. Eventually she’ll start talking back and responding positively.
#2. You’re talking to a girl and she acts indifferent or aloof, only gives you one word answers, or keeps looking off into the distance
Again, you simply have to ENDURE IT. Keep talking, keep being playful. Teasing her a little bit never hurts either. “Are you this charming with all the guys?” “This bitchy cheerleader persona you’re putting on is really turning me on, please keep it going ;-)”
When she sees you’re not going to go away so easily, her frame will crack. She’ll start to smile. Attraction.
#3. You’re talking to a girl and she leaves to go to the bathroom, says “I have to go find my friends”, or runs away for no apparent reason.
Let her go. Then re-approach her later. I can’t tell you how many girls have run off on me, then I approach them half an hour later and they’re like “Oh it’s you!” and then we hook up.
Why do women leave? Again, they’re NERVOUS.
Have you ever approached a hot girl and things were going TOO WELL? The girl is smiling and laughing…. she’s responding well… and…. you freak out! You don’t know what else to do, but you don’t want to fuck it up, so you leave set!
GIRLS DO THIS TOO. Women will “run out of things to say” and run away because they’re nervous and overwhelmed by being in a high value person’s presence, same as guys will.
Let her go, then re-approach her next time you see her.
She will respond extremely well 90% of the time in my experience. She’ll literally be GRATEFUL to you that you gave her another chance. Women have told me this explicitly.
#4. If you’re talking to a girl and she tells you outright that you should leave, or says “well, you should go back to your friends”, “it was nice meeting you”, etc.
Smile, nod, agree, and then continue talking to her as if she said nothing. Never leave set because a girl tells you to.
SHE can walk away if she wants. She has that right.
But in a public space like a bar or nightclub, you’re well within your rights to talk to whoever you want.
It’s Saturday night. It’s a social environment. You’re mixing with people.
You’re free to talk to whoever you want, and she’s free to walk away at any time.
But if she tells YOU to leave, it’s simply a test of your frame. She wants to see that you won’t buckle under social pressure.
Pass the test by ignoring it. If she tells you to leave again, look her in the eye with a sly smile and say “You’re free to go if you want to.”
Her eyes will light up and she’ll punch you in the arm. Pussy dampening commences.
#5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.
Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.
#6. You approach a woman, or a group of women, and they attempt to mock or belittle you.
They’re nervous around you because you’re the alpha male in the environment. (As demonstrated by the fact that you approached.)
They feel uncomfortable in your presence because you’re high value, and so they’re trying to maintain frame by making nervous jokes.
Smile, nod, agree, and keep talking to them AS IF they were being perfectly nice to you. If you act like they’re being civil, eventually their frame will buckle to yours and they actually WILL begin to act civil.
That’s the nature of having a stronger frame: you create reality. Other people adjust themselves to it.
TL;DR
1. Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That’s all.
2. To figure out if you’ve got a strong frame, women test you. These tests come in the form of indifference, bitchiness, aloofness, personal insults, etc.
3. You don’t have to do much to pass these tests. You just have to ENDURE them, keep talking to her, teasing her a little and being normal. Over time, her frame will buckle and she’ll become aroused by you because she sees you have a strong frame that can’t be pushed around.
4. Attraction is a passive, not an active process. You attract hot girls by outframing them. You outframe them by enduring their tests without it breaking your frame. Eventually they “buckle” to you and become wet, laugh at your jokes, ask you what you’re doing later, etc. Then you can take her hand and lead her to the sex location and she’ll be compliant.
5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong
If you’ve found this guide helpful, you might like my blog. Start with my most popular post: The Ultimate Guide To "Same Day Sex"
For those stuck in the rut of, "I'll start approaching women after I do xyz self-improvement", this one is for you. I'm guilty of it as well.
Go approach today, don't wait. Still keep going to the gym and try to lose that gut or undo being skinny fat, but you absolutely have got to put yourself out there as you are today and take action!
One thing to expand on slightly - enjoying the tests. The tests mean she's already into you. She's just trying to figure out if you're the real thing.
If she's not throwing shit your way then you might as well not even exist.
tests=investment. you wouldn't invest in something you find valueless.
When you approach a chick and she just glares at you disgusted before walking away, there's no real investment on her side, yet it's supposedly just a test.
It's either not about investnent or the post is a bit off.
Active tests / "shit tests" = investment.
Passive tests (like the girl giving you a weird look) are not about investment. It's the girl feeling anxious and socially uncomfortable and not knowing how to act. When you remain calm and don't react to her negative reaction, she often becomes more attracted to you as a result.
Many of the hottest girls I've been with gave me a disgusted look initially, but when I saw them later and re-approached they reacted well. Mere exposure effect plays a role. The more familiar we become with a stimulus, the more we like it.
There's a joke that goes like this: Women have powerful emotions, but they don't control them very well. So to get a woman to love you, you have to get her to love you, hate you, or feel really sorry for you. Then she will think, "I'm thinking about this guy all the time. I must love him."
The though itself is not red pill, but it does capture something which is the worst thing you can inspire in a woman is apathy.
It might not be red pill, but running hate fuck game is really easy, efficient, and fun. This is an especially useful approach for self-aware anger phasers that might like to channel some of that piss and vinegar into something productive.
This goes along with something that used to be repeated often here (years back), but I haven't seen mentioned in some time. The idea that you want people to have a strong feeling about you. Whether love or hate, you want to elicit a strong emotion from people about you. You don't want people to think "oh yeah. That guy. He's whatever."
This is similar to what Patrice used to speak about. Turning "hate into love", etc
How do you know they are literally not interested if running away and dirty looks are "tests"?
Let me put it this way.
You approach a girl and she gives you a dirty look. You approach her later that night again, and 2 hours later you're fucking on her couch.
Now imagine that situations has happened to you nearly a dozen times.
That's been my experience. Caused me to change my perspective on shit. Now I simply can't go back to looking at in in the conventional way, because it no longer adequately explains my own experiences.
Mike Haines, aka the only guy in the universe that fucks women that give him purely IODs with zero IOIs. LOL
You ever think a girl just might not be into you? Jesus the hamster is strong with you.
I could nitpick at what you said, but that'd be pointless. Thanks for answering the comments man. I'll check your blog out.
Think about it this way: Men never give "nasty looks" or glares, we simply don't react. Giving a nasty look is actually a conscious reaction, the girl knows she's doing it ("and he kept staring at me so I gave him this look like"), but you can override her frame and later she'll remember a more positive version ("I was confused that's why I looked at you that way!").
See, that's the thing I cant agree with. If youre a god tier hot male model, youre not getting thrown shit at. So no, the tests don't mean shes already into you.
Though it is true that owning the tests increases attraction
Beeing attractive is just playing the game on an easier difficulty however the game mechanics are the same.
Hence women fucking. Ugly guys with strong frames and not handsome guys with weak ones
This isn't entirely true. I have met many women who have shut down the "hot guy" because of his mouth.
TRP logic seems to be:
Bitch gives positive response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!
Bitch gives negative response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!
Bitch files a restraining order and reports you for sexual harassment = SHIT TEST ALERT, GUYZ!!
Yeah I know this post was ridiculous. Essentially what he's saying is that IODs are all shit tests. Wrong. Big difference between a shit test and an IOD. Shit tests are accompanied with IOIs. IODs are not.
This guy is an idiot and going against all game advice accrued over the past 15 years.
It's probably good for the ego though. ;)
Can we get the likes of /u/Rollo-Tomassi /u/GayLubeOil /u/Archwinger and/or /u/IllimitableMan to state their opinions on this post?
I can't put my mind around whether this post states the truth or whether it just represents what most of us, especially newcomers, would like to believe and really just represents an extremely ignorant and overly simplified view on things...
Of course it sounds great and easy to believe that frame is essentially the only thing that matters and every act we considered a rejection previously is now redefined as a shit-test. But really I feel like behaving that way might just make us look like autistic socially inept retards.
This is how you become attractive - for real.
Here's the technicality of how this works:
When faced with the appearance of a 'rejection,' you either 'know for sure' that you're being 'rejected,' or 'know for sure' ... whatever your belief is. Depending on what you believe (AKA 'know for sure'), you'll respond in a certain way. We're talking about subtle shifts in you body language, vocal tone, facial microexpressions and the like. For the most part, the woman isn't consciously aware of these subtleties, but she does get a powerful gut-level reaction from them.
You don't even have to approach for this mechanism to kick in. The moment you sense a woman in your vicinity, based on your beliefs, you either reject yourself or feel awesome. You body responds accordingly. The woman responds to your body's response.
Don't confuse 'simple' with 'easy.' Turning you body's response around takes work.
To make an analogy, if you play an instrument, you don't practice your scales in front of a huge crowd. Instead, you practice scales in the privacy of your dojo. That's what monk mode is about. Then you go out and practice not giving a fuck about screwing up in front of the crowd. These are two very different kinds of practice, and both are important.
To complicate things, people (including women) are horrified at the prospect of 'being fooled by a fake.' That's why you'll be getting the harshest tests while working at turning yourself around. There's an uncanny abyss you'll have to cross.
Use tests to practice regaining your balance. Each time a woman gives you the appearance of a 'rejection,' this is a weight for you to lift, strengthening your frame in the process. Each time you lose your frame is an opportunity to re-gain it. Each time you fall is an opportunity to practice getting back up.
Staying rock-solid in the face of challenge makes you attractive.
Caveat: Just like men, women are humans, and all humans have some (limited) capacity for self-control. There are women in committed relationships who do want to stay loyal to their partners. This conscious choice does not turn off biology - just like men in committed relationships are still attracted to boobs. Expecting this to be otherwise is a reality disconnect.
AWALT = biology. AMALT = biology too.
That's why as you get more attractive, you can expect loyal women to start avoiding you: because they are actively resisting the temptation you've become. This is something I'm dealing with right now. It's a bit of a bummer.
As you gain security about you own attractiveness, you realize how much power you have to screw up the lives of the people around you, while at the same time you lose the need for 'proof' that you are attractive. Respecting other people's arrangements becomes the self-evident way to go.
When you really get this, it will become clear to you that you can't ever 'fake' anything. It's all about becoming attractive - for real.
Edit: Caveat 2: This should be self-evident, but if you are reeking of insecurity, this will turn women off. If you keep pushing you can get yourself into trouble. There may be some serious stuff you need to clear up before going full out. Monk mode.
Edit 2: uncanny
Cheers for the response. I do agree with it in essence and I will be paying attention to these aspects in the next couple of days to raise my awareness.
One thing I'm a bit confused about though: what about really good-looking guys? If shit-testing to the extent that OP mentioned was the standard to sense a partners viability for women, then why are those not getting the same amount of shit as worse looking guys? How does the above relate to them?
If I understand correctly: when women give you shit upon approaching, it still is an indicator of disinterest (which is why extremely good looking blokes don't have this as much), but overcoming these hurdles makes you more attractive?
Good looking guys don't receive as much shit, because the average girl expects them to hold themselves in higher regard and therefore have frame which represents that higher regard. Generally, if a guy grew up always being good looking, he'll never have a need for this subreddit. If his looks came later in life, his frame has to catch up to the way people treat him.
I'd rather stay away from over-analizing* this. For the most part, people are acting on auto-pilot.
Just train your autopilot to feel good about yourself and not depend on external validation.
Good looking guys dont get as much shit tests because they were already attracted to them at the start. Not much need to build it up. Ugly or even more normal looking guys do get tested more because the attraction level has a lot of room to increase.
Nope, it's clown shit from a dude who has oneities and still overthinks everything.
A rejection is a rejection. Don't take it any other way. If a girl recoils from your approach, you did something wrong. It doesn't necessarily mean it can't be salvaged and you certainly shouldn't cry if you fail, but this fake "IDGAF" bullshit is transparent as hell especially when you're the type who writes long posts about how to maintain frame so you can net some dumb chick. Not adapting based on others' responses is the definition of social ineptness. Go ahead, take risks, but god damn don't just turn off your brain.
You're a noob or beta. Not everyone is ALWAYS in the mood to be hit on or approached. Life isn't some Disney movie where you're the prince and she's the princess you fucking moron. Nobody expects someone named 'upboats' to have ANY game at all though. Beta4life.
Uh, I see a lot of ad hominem but not much substance. I'll summarize the meat.
I'm making some strong points. I seek counterpoints.
The post states the truth.
Many commenters are unfortunately stuck in their feminine-primary world view, so they're trying to make things easier for women, protect the poor innocent women from awkwards, snarking away with the self-conscious "but isn't that rapey" jokes etc. etc. This is the behaviour of dogs who've been beaten since they were puppies, so now they habitually imagine nasty sticks everywhere coming at them, and whine anxiously amongst themselves.
Why would I make anything easier for a woman? Especially rejecting me. Why would you care what she wants to happen, in the first place? It's the good old blue pill brainwashing, robbing you of your natural masculine qualities, as usual. Think about that for a moment, then you can re-read the brilliant post OP contributed with a clearer head.
Cupid's arrows always strike women's hearts against their will, without asking their permission first. Think of these tactics as positioning yourself so the buttnaked curlyhaired bastard can take better aim, then staying there so he can keep on shooting.
OP was explaining the essence of rock solid masculine frame. That means, a mental frame that is focused on YOU, not on her. Notice how at no point does OP apologize for anything or pepper any "but always make sure she is comfortable, don't be an autistic social retard" disclaimers. That's very telling! It's like you're seeing Neo flex in the Matrix. Of course it makes no fucking sense, how is this even possible.
It does.
But what's wrong with that?
Never underestimate what can be brought about by a change of perspective. In fact that's exactly what TRP is about.
To use the Matrix analogy, Neo becomes able to stop bullets simply because he believes he can.
Make-believe stuff, I stopped reading less than halfway. A 9 has no reason to go for a 4-5 guy when she could have an 8-9 guy. I'm actually worried about OP getting his arse kicked :D
Very good and insightful post. Two questions though:
What does a real rejection look like? The post seems to suggest that most all rejections are a test.
And with the boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying? How can you tell if it's true or not while not wasting time?
Real rejection is them either telling you to fuck off or them walking away. Sometimes both. That being said, seeing either one is exceedingly rare and even when you do it often has less to do with anything you did and says more about their own situation.
Anything else can generally be treated as ambivalence at worst and them waiting for you to make a move at best.
edit: and keep in mind that if you get rejected, they're not rejecting you as a person. They don't even know you. All they're doing is rejecting your approach methodology or the logistics of their situation which may have no thing to do with you. Could very well just be she's there to meet up with Chad she's been looking forward to all week because he keeps flaking and she's afraid you'll cock block her. Stuff like that. Or she's married and her husband beats her if she talks to other guys, so you're talking to her will get her smacked around later if the husband finds out. Point being, do not take any of this shit personally.
Being rejected isn't her rejecting who you are as a person, but the situation at hand. Sure, she might just not like what she sees, but an iron-clad frame and rock solid game can overcome those personal preferences in many cases because women get turned on by more than just hard abs and height, which is the ultimate point of this thread.
Those a 2 obvious signs, but why would you even stick around if the woman in question is not interested during the interaction. I start talking to women I find interesting, and keep talking with those who are interested in me.
Rejection is her leaving and not coming back.
Nah that's a test too. She wants to see if you have the balls to break into her appartment at night :))
Then when you break into her room and she resists your advances it's a test to see if you're man enough to rape her. After the rape you win.
Most people stop there. Most people are wrong! That's the final test. She wants to know that you know that most women(people really) will stab you in the back given the chance. She will most likely call the police on you after you leave. You pass the test by murdering her and hiding her body in a nearby river. Every night she will appear to you in your dreams, giving you a sort of spiritual hug that emphasises adoration for the only real man she ever knew- the man who passed all the tests :)
This is actually how many females in the animal kingdom act. They deliberately throw themselves in a pile of males, after the most dominant male bashes through them, he goes for the female, then the female runs all over the place and attempts to fight him off. After forcing himself on her and a few thrusts, she calms down and lets him finish. "If you could force it, it was yours all along" is the mantra. How much this applies to human females, I'm not sure.
When i read that, all i could think of was "So Bro.. You basically drugged her, then she started responding to the drugs and laughing uncontrollably till she passed out and you had sex with her while she was unconscious"
Rejection is her calling 911.
If you fight off the police and approach her a third time, are you finally alpha?
You're not alpha until the rape is complete and you've got her pregnant against her will.
If you read the post he points out that could be the chick getting nervous.
Honestly I've brought so much into shit tests that I couldn't imagine a hot chick getting nervous until now. Jesus
The real answer is women don't reject. They throw shade until you reject yourself. Some guys reject themselves before even approaching, some guys never give up, which leads to either banging the girl or a restraining order (edit: or relegation to beta orbiter).
Well if she runs away yelling multiple times she probably is not interested hoss
Yea surely, but that kinda falls under restraining order. If a girl has to raise her voice and physically flee you to the point of making a scene, she is trying to get others involved to separate you. Most guys will reject themselves before this point though, and it's really only an issue with creepy guys that make women feel threatened.
Yeah I was exaggerating. I'd stop after she leaves twice
She smiles, and tells you warmly, "I'm sorry, you look like a nice guy but I'm afraid I have a boyfriend."
That's a true rejection, my friend, when she lets you down gently.
How about "you're not attractive, looks like you have a small dick and are boring in bed " then goes away?
Try again later in the night. Act as if that didn't happen.
On a second thought, behaving like the OP advises might make you come off kinda autistic.
the potential benefits are amazing though.
Have you ever been in that kind of a situation?
Everyone's got to change the OP to suit their situation. Been in what kind of situation? I'm sure many of the women I've approached have thought I had a few screws lose or something.
I'm a short bald man. My success really comes from consistency and confidence. I'm at the point where I view life as a game and I genuinely believe anything can happen.
I've essentially mentally deluded. If a girl says "I have a boyfriend or I'm not dating right now," I'll still assume she's interested and is just testing me. Am I wrong? It (truth) doesn't matter. What matters to me are the effects of this kind of "delusional" mindset.
I approach any and every kind of women and I'm never put off by rejection.
However your results may vary. I live in a large city, I don't go into bars or clubs, and I just day game. I would not run this type of game in the suburbs or in a small town.
By potential benefits I meant losing AA.
Irrational self confidence. 'Too dumb to fail' as RSD says.
Yeah, but women love attention, plus a persistent/persuasive man gives us the tingles. You could come off autistic to a SJW/feminist but to the feminine girls you would come off as cute or funny and sexy.
Ofcourse that's only when he is attractive himself aswell. I doubt you will get tingles from quasimodo persuading you.
I'm sure she has lots of sex with butt ugly men who won't take no for an answer.
Ahahahah attention from quasi is better than NO attention at all. So even him can and will fuck if he has game. ;)
This is autistic as fuck. For any readers - dude don't do this.
If she brings up sex it means she's thinking about it. That statement is a green light.
If she says something like that and you are truly non-reactive (calm gaze and continuing to talk to her normally), she'll become more attracted to you than if she'd never said anything bad at all. Meditation helps with cultivating non-reactivity.
You know, it actually is reasonable to assume that not all women want to be picked up at all times. Your post is good, but leaves no accounting for the fact that some people just want to be left alone.
No one "wants" to be sold something by a door to door salesman, yet billions of dollars of goods are sold by door to door salesmen every year.
Use common sense. Don't harass women or be aggressive.
Unless you're the type of person that slams the door without a word.
Give me a break. Not everyone is the same.
That isn't the point of this post, the point is that you are the salesman, going out and making a shitload of money. You really think that you are going to remember that douchebag at 617 Saints Street who slammed the door on you? No, because Steve down the block just spent $1200 on a vacuum.
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if she's already talking about you in bed, she's already thinking about it. You are in a good position
Since you're premeditating on questions like this, your inner game isn't ready yet. And if your inner game isn't ready yet, no answer will satisfy you or your imaginative scenarios, cause you will find ways to excuse yourself out of action.
Tell her not to worry about that, and that your average-sized dick will feel huge when it's in her butthole.
My response to 'I have a boyfriend' is 'don't worry, I'm not the jealous type'.
Or firmly and strongly telling you "no" or the countless other things she could say which infer she doesnt want to talk to you.
"What does a real rejection look like?"
No one can reject anyone. The reality of the world is that we're atoms and particles colliding with each other in empty space. Rejection is a mental concept which you're imposing onto that. Eliminate any mental concept that doesn't serve you. Delusional? Maybe, but it's worked out well for me.
"The boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying?"
Not intending to spam the comments here but I coincidentally just wrote a post on that which you can check out: http://insurgentmedia.tv/what-to-say-if-she-tells-you-she-has-a-boyfriend/
Bottom line: Don't take it seriously. Girls without boyfriends will say IHABF as a test. Girls with boyfriends will often hook up with you anyway due to natural selection positively selecting for women who are successful at paternity fraud. Not saying that you SHOULD fuck girls with boyfriends -- just that it's possible.
That IHABF is not a test, but a filter to seperate the boys from the men. A man knows that talking to a girl isn't sexual, and her having a BF or not is irrelevant. I usually laugh the IHABF test off with "My buddy over there has a BF too, so what's your name?"
I would lay off the physics because your not doing yourself any favors with your ignorance.
I think you're crossing a line to a dangerous frame of mind, people have free will, moods and emotions, it's not all about you and not everyone wants to get it on all the time.
And even if you could maybe change their mind, it's still not ok to harass 9 to get the 1.
Holy fuck some actual sanity in this thread. Thank you.
It's true, there is no such thing as a rejection, there is no thing as a NO.
Excellent post OP. First points are basics, but the last ones are GOLD, something to be read each week. What I would add to it are a few little Last Minute Resistance points in case the bitch will hamster it before putting your cock in her mouth. It happens sometimes with uglier girls than 9&10s but it's something worth knowing just in case.
In the end, watch what she does, not what she says. AWALT.
Are you autistic? There's no such thing as no? Really? If someone tells you no and you say "eh, they really mean yes" you're gonna end up in jail. If you approach a girl and kiss her and she says "no", and you keep going you're fucked.
There is no thing as a NO. Whoever thinks otherwise needs LMR info.
so by that logic if a guy wanted to fuck you and you said no, but he kept pressing you enough and eventually got what he wanted even though you didn't want it, it would ok? because there is no such thing as a NO, right?
Have fun in jail after you rape someone. Fucking toxic, antisocial mindset.
I... I don't think just saying "I'll get you pretnant" will work as well as you wrote.. seriously smells like bullshit to me
Read the Selfish Gene. Women have an instinctive urge to be impregnated. It's not something I like to play with much because by putting the idea in her head you're almost inviting her to get herself pregnant with you. But it is powerful. Tell a girl you're going to shoot a load into her and put a baby in her belly during sex -- feel how wet she instantly gets. It's instinctual.
This might sound crazy but, I'm pretty sure "No" means rejection.
Not all rejections are a test but what hes saying is if you destroy her rejection then she will second guess it theb you have a chance. As far as the boyfriend thing goes. It could be a test or it could be true. I would say just be more aware of it. One way is too call them out on it.I purposefully don't disengage after that because it makes you just look like your trying to sleep with them. I continue conversation and break away at a different part in the conversation.
when they ignore you and walk away. Happen to me once, it's funny tbh.
Lol this sub is a fucking trip.
It's sexuel tension if she holds your stare.
If you want an even more effective technique do this : talk, and then start talking more slowly, in a deeper voice, very gradually, until you make pauses between words. And look in her eyes when you do so. THIS creates sexual tension
Nah, it's just eye contact. Looking into one eye just makes it more intense.
Try focusing in one pupil while chatting to a girl. Thank me later.
This is post is pissing off a bunch of angry betas at the blue pill as well as a few dudes in the anger phase here, which must mean it's a good post. The greatest truth always hurts, so of course you've got a bunch of faggots who don't want to accept it. Keep doing what you're doing man.
No it's epic hamstering. Frame matters, but so does your looks, your voice, your charisma, whether she had that deep instinctual feeling your dna matches well with her. It all matters and makes up the overall package.
I think Sluthate LMS omegas are idiots but looks matter and does your status. Ask Beiber how many shit tests he gets. None. He shit tests them.
He made it clear that having good looks charisma etc. will make everything a lot easier. The more attractive you are (as far as the standards to society go) the less shit testing you will get.
"5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong"
Reading through the OP post again, I wonder how many of you guys are overthinking everything because of these PUA guys.
The thing about attractive women, is they're just women. They act like other women do, mostly, and there's not a whole lot different in how they behave when they like you, vs average looking women. A lot of average women get hit on a lot, and with social media and stuff, they basically have inflated ideas on what their SMV probably is. Its been my experience that a lot of very attractive women slightly underestimate themselves, so they behave much the same as your average girl.
This is why I think a lot of this stuff is bullshit, just made up by guys who want to prey on the weak. Snake Oil, if you will.
I don't particularly respect Snake Oil salesmen. I'm here because I want to help the younger guys in particular, perhaps, since I think someone should. No one else is looking after them. After being lied to, and blue pilled, they come in here looking for help, and I want them to get that help. This is why posts like this actually make me a little angry.
Looks at some of these lies objectively, guys. We're talking frame, hold your damn frame and look at some of these claims honestly. He's telling "ugly" guys that they're being rejected because they're "Too high value." Does that sound like a legit thing?
Lets get back to reality here. If you're a 5 and you hit on a 9, she's going to make a face at you and move on with her day, and it has nothing to do with you being too high value. Don't try to neg her, you're a goddamn 5, so fix that.
I've approached women when I was a 130 pound skinny kid, and after working to improve my own SMV for years. I know what it feels like to try to hit on women without any real SMV, and what it's like when you are legitimately attractive. When I say "Drop the delusions, and get to work", I am saying so from a place of love, my friends. I have no incentive to lead you astray, I don't need you to come to my blog and buy any of my shit. I say this from a place where I'm passing on knowledge to a little brother, to pass on things I've learned in life, and to bring more value on those experiences.
Ignore these "Frame" posts. I think they're made by liars who want to take advantage of you. Instead improve upon yourself. Work on doing things you like doing in life, and enjoy your stay. There might not be anything waiting for you after this, after all. Women are people, not absurdly different from yourself in a lot of ways. Try to understand that there's not a lot that's actually about you, people just want what's best for them. If you improve yourself and you get to a place where you have very real value, you're going to find your confidence. You will notice that others want to be around you, both men and women, if you have real value. You won't have to go out there and put on a false face, and make believe that you are good enough. You'll just BE good enough. Understand?
Part of actually being the Warlord, vs playing make believe, is you will have earned Frame, and not irrational Frame. I don't know if that's a thing we discuss here.
Hypothetical situation. A chihuahua vs Pit Bull. The chihuahua has superdog "Frame" and really believes in himself. The Pit Bull is a Pit Bull.
You know the answer guys. Come on. DO NOT DRINK THE COOL-AIDE.
I would say that chihuahuas CAN scare off pitbulls, solely based on their self image. Or cats vs. pitbulls. Or parakeets.
Can, sure. But 9 times out of ten, that'd be a dead chihuahua. You know the point I'm making here, stop being stupid.
I like this, any more you can share?
This shit works, I banged my 11/10 sister. I grabbed her by knee in normal conversation and said "I want to fuck you right now". She replied "but we are family". I said to myself "haha, its shit test" I smiled, nodded and agreed and then fucked her right in the pussy. Thanks man :)
I do think it's important to mention that while the advice is "Every woman wants to fuck your ugly ass, she just doesn't know it yet" is great to psych someone up to trying to pull for the first time, in reality, the truth is that some women just aren't attracted to you. Some really do have boyfriends and won't fuck you because you're nowhere near their boyfriends in SMV. Sometimes it just isn't meant to happen. And that's okay. You wouldn't want to waste your time with a girl who has nothing in common with you and who you will hate by the end of the week. Save your energy for the women you do "connect" with.
Obviously, it can take some time to establish that connection, so don't just assume after she ignores you once that she's Satan, but be on the lookout not for signs that she's not interested in you, but for signs that make you disinterested in her.
Case in point: I was younger, and my girlfriend was "the one". I was alone with a female friend of mine who was a literal 9/10 and for some weird reason was SO into me (it hadn't happened before) but because I was so naive, I kept rejecting her advances... while my girlfriend at the time was off fucking another guy across the road.
Next instance: I was really into a girl who kept playfully rejecting me. She ended up dating some douche at work, BUT, what I saw of their relationship made me realise I was the lucky one and dodged a bullet - she just wasn't the kind of girl I'd have gotten along with after sex.
Point being: sometimes, opportunities slap you in the face and you're too busy ignoring them, and other times something you think is an opportunity turns out to be a bullet with your name on it. Learn to gauge each situation as it developes before assuming it's one or the other.
And yes, I realllllly regret not fucking that 9/10. But that was 10 years ago in my beta teens. I've made up for it since.
Very good writing, however I can't help but feel that it's bullshit. If you didn't have to get fit and well groomed to bang models, most guys here wouldn't even lift.
Thanks for reading.
It helps to lift weights and maintain your appearance, and I do, but I've just seen too many counterexamples in my life to subscribe to the belief system that it's always necessary without exception.
There's a deeper level to reality than that which is visible. And in male-to-woman dynamics, that deeper level is the power of FRAME.
Yep, having a fat friend (>130 kg) who regularly scores hot girls out of the blue really opened my eyes.
I do not lift. Never have. Most of your post mirrors my own belief. It works. Fantastic post.
Lifting IMO helps but is not necessary, the process many men seem to go through is more psychological and confidence building alongside the lifting and that has the bigger impact than the physical appearance IMO.
Yes, I see lifting and taking care of yourself as mandatory as well. I just really doubt that I could bang a 9 as I am right now.
It worked for you, should for me as well, but I'll rather save myself the heartache and get exceptionally fit first, .
That's a great goal, each to their own. Every man walks a different path to success in life.
Man stop spreading this bullshit. Take a walk around and tell me how many 9s you find with guys that arent 9s themselves?
This. Is frame extremely important? Of course. But maybe the reason she's recoiling from your cold approach is your 5'5", 240lbs of blubber, shitily dressed, unshowered, neckbearded self? If you have reasonably high SMV, her attitude may be a test. But if you're just this side of a retarded troll, her attitude can likely be taken at face value.
Yet Mac Millers ugly fat ass is fucking Ariana grande. Think about that for a second. And it aint the money, she richer than him.
Ya a muscian celebrity thats why. Not the money.
Mac is worth roughly 10mil. Grande is about 5mil. Also, he's "fit" in the way he isn't fat, he has a decently attractive face, and he is clearly an extremely charismatic person. All I really needed to say was the first 3 sentences though because it completely contradicts your stupid comment.
One of the best posts I've ever read on this site. Clear, concise, and simple explanations for near every situation that I can recount with hot women. Thumbs up!
Wow thanks man, that means a lot.
You never finished the story of how you got together with your model girlfriend :OO Don't leave us hanging man
Haha good point. Long story short I added her on FB a couple months later, we got to talking, I sent her some light flirty banter, asked her to come get a drink with me, she flaked on me, I asked her again and she met me. We hooked up that night and have been together ever since
How many times have you had success after a flake? If that's common as well might be worth a post on its own
Agreed. This is one of the best posts I've read in two years of solid lurking. CTRL+C, pasted into Word and saved for future reference. There is something reminiscent of Scott Adams (Dilbert) about this post.
Yeah, awesome post. Finally something other than teenagers whining about Muslims or posting advice on things they have no experience with.
Meh. I liked this better when it was called Uncle Vasya’s Guide On Dating Models but then again, I'm biased. /grin
I'm gonna be honest with you, that's pretty dope. "Possession of the Ass is 9/10th of the Law." I love it
Vasiliy, much respect to your contributions.
Could you checkout my comment above and tell me what you think?
Great post but one question. Why persist so much with one woman who puts on such a strong front? Why not just cut your loss (time and opportunity) and find another girl who might be more interested?
TLDR:
"Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible."
That's some delusional shit right there.
Yes, this bit is traveling into the religious territory, but the rest of the post is good
Why are most of the people dismissing this post not providing evidence or any theories of their own?
I didn't make the claim. OP did, he showed no evidence and also "Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible." <-- That's fucking retarded. and my theory is women are fucking people you mongaloid. They are all different, no group of people fall so perfectly into a mold that you can have rules that will "work" everytime you talk to any of it's members. If you people didn't try to just get into the pants of every attractive woman you meet your life wouldn't suck so bad, and you could actually have meaningful relationships with people. I mean, god damn is it so hard to realize that treating women like people is the right thing to do??
Thank you for being one of the few guys in this sub, who doesn't sound like a retard. The biggest turn on for me isn't looks or "frame" or what ever, but just being genuinely good at some ting or interested in something. I don't really care if it's football, chess, drums or the anatomy of a river dolphin. I just find it really attractive when someone tells me about something they're really passionate about. If it's not themselves, that is.
Source: am girl, former model.
What is a former model doing on this sub?
Some good points, especially #29 and #30, which I feel don't get talked about a lot. Here at TRP, 'YOU' being the prize is always preached and that is 100% true. Deep down, women know this too....you, as the man, are the prize. Almost every woman on this planet has low self esteem, regardless of their looks. This is a hard concept for us men to grasp sometimes because we think "how can this beautiful woman have such a negative view of herself? Just doesn't make sense." But there we go again...thinking logically.
Yeah, I totally agree. I plan to write a lot more on those points in future.
This is brilliant, it is the epitome of taking women off of a pedestal. Approaching girls with the mindset of you yourself being the HVI (High Value Individual) is key to embodying a strong frame. I'm looking forward to future posts!
Thanks man, yeah I plan on expanding on that concept a lot in future, because I only touched on it briefly in this post. Looking forward to posting more here in future!
I asked a dude if he wanted to fuck and he said "no man I'm not gay" but ever since I read this post I understand that was only a test. I now fuck dudes on the regular. I pass all of their tests. I am the true alpha
Don't let the confirmation bias kick in when you come to this subreddit guys.
If you are doing overwhelmingly well in at least 2 quality areas you can still get laid.
Having frame just happens to be the easiest things to accomplish.
In other words, being overwhelmingly rich and not insane could get you laid, regardless of if you're a beta or not.
There are women who openly call their boyfriends beta cowards, which makes me believe that a woman can fuck a man even if she thinks he's a beta, if you're doing overwhelmingly well in the other areas.
If she's broke as shit and is about to get evicted, then walks in MR moneybags, she's going to get wet.
It's just not the most optimal path.
You can get laid, it just won't be like the movies.
Being beta doesn't mean you'll die a virgin. It means you don't have the right to pick & choose who you want, what your type is, and how often you'll have sex.
sorry but this is simply not true. It depends on the situation and you cannot affirm such things.
I can. I have a friend who is 6'3, has a great face, and is naturally in great shape. Never hit the gym until a month ago, but has always been naturally muscular.
He's almost 19, and since he has no idea how to talk to girls, he hasn't ever kissed one.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of my female friends is infatuated with the guy, but once he starts talking to them...
social awkwardness on a pretty girl can be cute, but on handsome guy its an instant turn off.
Lol I'm 6'6 and 19 and am similar to that friend of yours. Only difference is I realized how bad I am with woman and now I'm on my way to fucking them.
Get 'em!
That being said, it's amazing how easy it really is. I spent all this year trying to hit the gym harder and get my shit together - I'm getting quite big now, although that's the only thing I've got going for me - I still live at home (18 nbd), no car, crappy retail part time job and I've got more attractive girls than ever because I have so much time to approach and they're my only form of entertainment atm.
Game is EVERYTHING once you have your appearance in order.
You're in the jungle. You're a female. You have two choices:
(a) the leader of the tribe, who has authority and power over other men because he has charisma and personal magnetism. This man is "ugly"
(b) a young guy who looks like Justin Bieber but who has no authority, no charisma, and who is therefore low in the dominance hierarchy
Over history, women have chosen (a) more than they've chosen (b). That's why "ugly" men make up the vast majority of the male population, while "beautiful" men are rare.
Cmon man that last sentence is completely absurd. I agree with the rest, though.
In what way do you consider it ridiculous? It contradicts the popular narrative but seems pretty self explanatory to me.
It's his opinion being stated as though it were fact. What are the criteria for ugly vs beautiful, and what census is there that shows quantity of ugly vs beautiful? There are no data (or logic for that matter) to back his assumption.
I mean fair enough but the general point makes sense. Beauty is not a trait that was necessary for males for survival. It's only now become "important" because of mainstream media. Women have been conditioned to want a sexy man, they aren't genetically predisposed to it.
Yeah, but we no longer live in the jungle... girls like hygiene and symmetry
Read about evolutionary psychology. We're still wired for the ancestral environment.
Do women honestly consider Bieber attractive?
Yea but funnily enough it has to do with him being charismatic and talented
He's not charismatic at all. They're attracted to him because 1. He's a famous pop singer. 2. Good looks bad boy image. 3. Has a gazillion dollars.
Take away his fame and talent and he'd have a hard time gettimg laid being skinny and 5'7.
Ed Sheeran is an ugly ginger but women still love him for his talent and fame.
Same reason why women find Orlando Bloom attractive
no offense but sounds like ugly guy with weak frame salt. Good looks gets you a foot in the door but being a man is what attracts them enough to fuck you.
well it's not offense cause it's wrong. I am average/good looking. Since I started taking care of me I need twice less effort to get the same results.
Of course you have to be a man at some point but there a some guys who definetely can't get laid with their faces. There are some girls that I would never fuck even if I knew that nobody can hear of it. Basically I dont agree with the idea that people don't have standards. They might be lower than what ppl expect but they definetely exists. Evolutionary psychology teach us that woman are looking for other features than just "manliness".
Only addendum, I would add is that:
One man's 10 is another man's 6....I would add the frame that girls are girls irregardless of their being blessed by physical attractiveness.
Yeah for sure. Other thing I realized after being with a few "9s and 10s" is that EVER GIRL IS A 7 when she's in her natural state (no makeup, sweat pants, greasy hair, acne, glasses, etc). This applies even to the hottest of the hot.
Ehh, you are overlooking a banging body, which is always banging if she keeps in shape, which most 9/10s do.
Guys actually have very strong common trends that aren't what everyone expects.
Yes, there are outliers, but the understanding is that these develop based on game theory - most guys who go after fatties for example tend to do it because they can corner the market.
I agree but in general I was talking about about the 5-10 range of girls which 95% of guys are interested in gaming.
I know that often, I see on this forum and other PUA sites guys talking about their 9\10s where they post a picture and it is one of the club going makeup dossed girls......which honestly to me is more along a 5 or 6 than a 10.....my preferences are different, not better, just different.
I would consider an obese chick as a 2 or 3....
Yeah I 100% agree with this. It's funny, cos I used to think all men pretty much had the same preferences I do. But after hanging out in the PUA community for a while and seeing the kinds of girls guys HONESTLY view as "perfect 10s" I seriously think there's a much bigger discrepancy even among male preferences than people generally think. (And women's preferences vary even more radically in my experience)
See, I think Ashley Graham is the most gorgeous thing ive ever laid eyes on, and a buddy of mine calls her a nasty fat pig. Hes only attracted to skinny anorexic looking blondes. Needless to say, when we go out, we never step on each others toes.
She's too thick to be a 10
can someone enlighten me what is a PUA site?
Seconded. But there are trends that aren't predicted by older literature; like a chick being edgy gives her points over being 'plain' and pretty on virtually everyone's rankings, and counter to opinion - progesterone/testosterone in women is higher sought by higher status men, while estrogen is more sought in lower status men.
Wow, this must be put in the sidebar, great article.
Thank you
Thanks! That's a hell of a compliment for my first ever post on this sub
I am ashamed to admit that this is exactly what I needed to read in this very moment.
Very comprehensive, on point, well written and
Thanks mate, I appreciate you taking the time to comment.
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You don't agree with any of this?
I think a lot of this is applicable in some situations but not all. The problem with this post and this mindset and this entire subreddit is the idea that there is a way to get any women you want and HERE IT IS GUYS! There is not a cheat sheet to finding a good partner and acting like there is, is dismissing the fact that are are millions of variables that you could never ever account for. Also, despite what some may tell you.. physical attractiveness DOES matter and it plays a pretty large role in human sexuality. The good news regarding that is many people find many different body types, face types, hairstyles, and just overall demeanor to be attractive. But like I said, right time and right place. Cheat sheets are just going to lead to confused and frustrated people who don't get the "9 or 10" they wanted.
the problem with this thinking is that you scrutinize these "cheat sheets" requiring them to be fail prove, treating each of these advice as needing the 100% accuracy or else worth little value.
These are just building blocks man, aimed to provide a few% to the whole picture with every try.
When you say stare into her left eye, do you mean her left eye facing me or her actual left eye
That's not the point, it doesn't matter which eye. The point is so you focus on staring at her eyeball and not on the anxiety of eye contact.
Exactly. And I would further add: stare calmly into the blacks of her eyes. It creates a smoldering sexual vibe.
I've read this whole thread with serious amusement, but this question really made me crack up.
If that was intentionally a joke then you should have no problem getting laid, because it was fucking funny. Women like funny.
Stopped reading after this.
Yeah, I should have bailed at this point too. Went further into fantasy island as things continued. It is basically a summary of a lot of the RSD crap.
If women would rather fuck weak handsome men than dominant ugly ones, ugly men would have been bred out of existence by the remorseless logic of natural selection.
Instead, we see the opposite. "Ugly" men outnumber "beautiful" men by 100 to 1. This indicates that throughout our evolution, the female humans who chose to mate with men based on preferences which superseded facial symmetry out-survived those who cared about looks alone.
Maybe it turns out that in the jungle, having Ghenghis Khan as a husband is a lot more likely to keep you safe than shacking up with Justin Bieber. And maybe... just maybe... that's why there are more men alive today who look like Ghenghis Khan than who look like Justin Bieber.
But it's just a theory ;-)
While your OP had a lot of ways of thinking that were good for self esteem (or frame or whatever), like just being enough, this is BS imo.
Firstly, bad looks don't always come from parents. They are affected by age of conception, environment in the womb, environment up until puberty, and sometimes just freak mistakes of genetics.
Secondly, women act towards good looking men in exactly the same way as men act towards good looking women. Character, 'frame', wealth, status, etc all become secondary. Good looks make all of us 'weak at the knees', reason goes out of the window and instinct takes over. There are countless examples of this, either with people catfishing on tinder with a good looking profile acting like complete prats and still getting a number, or twattish, narcissistic youtubers taking their shirt off for 'a prank' and still getting adoring looks. Even in my own, and I suspect most people's experience, we all remember the ease in which good looking mates could simply ask and get with a minimum of effort. It sucks, but it's true.
No, because in the past women needed men in their lives in order to survive. And even today, ugly women can still have sons, and they don't get bred out (the ugly women, not their sons).
A bit of an exaggeration imo, although it might interest you to know that 60% of all men who have ever lived throughout History DID NOT reproduce.
Highlighted the important bit there. We don't live in the jungle anymore, in case you didn't notice.
Your limbic brain is still programmed to the challenges of the ancestral environment environment (the jungle) whether you like it or not.
As an example: phobias of snakes and spiders are extremely common in modern society yet less than a handful of people are killed by them in modern times. On the other side motor vehicles kill more than 10,000 times more people than their arachnid and reptilian rivals. How many people have you heard of with a phobia of cars?
The modern mind just hasn't caught up.
Cars are useful though. A phobia of cars would be an evolutionary disadvantage, even though they're dangerous. Most people don't have a phobia of fire either, because it's more useful than it is dangerous.
I think a crucial element is missing from how to build this frame. You must have a reliable "pack" of comrades who will have your back when times get rough. I really think this is the essence of frame: justified belief in your own physical strength and ability, and belief that you belong to a team of men who you trust to have physical strength and ability.
If you don't have that, you can't really hold any frame.
You can't defy biology. If you're not strong, your mind will know it, and it will deliberately force you to defer to stronger men and act submissive to avoid conflicts.
Someone mentioned it recently in another post: the fear you experience in approaching a girl is not fear of the girl herself, but an instinctual fear of stronger men who will not like seeing you hitting on this girl because they see her as their girl. The only way to really overcome this fear is to get strong.
As for the "team of men", I dunno, I can see how that would help your frame but 99% of my friends are super bluepill and not into pickup so it's never really been a thing with me.
But yes, you are 100% right that you need to be STRONG. More specifically, you need high testosterone levels as well as strength. That is the biological basis of having a stronger frame.
Can confirm. Hopped onto TRT almost a year ago. Free T levels more than doubled.
On top of meditation, lifting, and reading, frame is effortless. Focus and determination through the roof.
For a while, old mental habits persisted, but they quickly started to seem silly. Shit rewires the brain.
Well, if you are the strongest man in your environment, it might be a different story, but the social backup is especially important if you are an ethnic minority or the environment is full of other strong men.
I just think from an evolutionary perspective, you can't afford to be a "lone wolf". You need to be connected to people who at least have social power if not physical strength.
I've read most of the posts here and have also authored some of the top ones and routinely answer questions PM'd to me.
I can say without reservation that this is probably the most usable and therefore valuable post ever on TRP and OP has written down my belief and experience word for word.
This also should help move TRP away from the "new way to approach" and "top 10 game tricks" style posts to "change yourself" type posts.
The only tidbit I would add is: The opposite of confidence is anxiety and if you are more relaxed than the girl, that will look like super-confidence to her.
Nice one man, appreciate you taking the time to comment. That last tidbit you mentioned is gold.
I actually liked this a lot. It's very logical when you think about it. It's super easy for me to talk to any girl when i'm drunk but that doesn't happen when i'm sober unfortunately. Can you give us some examples of what to say to them when you/we approach them? Besides the ones you've already mentioned.. Like certain topics
It doesn't matter what you say. It's how you say it. Talk about a Burger King wrapper someone littered. Anything. Just do it with fun confidence.
Thanks man.
A solid opener I saw recently on the seduction subreddit is "Are you as interesting as you look?"
That's good because it's challenging and flirtatious at the same time.
Personally, I tend to just walk up to the girl with relaxed dominant body language and good posture, make solid eye contact (as in: unwavering, pupil to pupil connection), then shake her hand and say "I'm Mike, who are you."
In terms of topics to talk about, I'll mainly alternate between a mixture of fluff talk and push/pull.
FLUFF TALK: This is standard boring "getting to know you" type conversation. What do you do, where do you go to college, etc. Friends in common, hobbies, interests. Finding commonalities.
PUSH/PULL: Challenge the girl by teasing her about something. Demonstrate sexual intent by complimenting her about something. Repeat. Push, pull. Hot, cold. Flirt, neg. Repeated endlessly. Girls never get bored of it.
Other than that, just wing it. What you say isn't all that important. Learn to "vibe" with people in a natural way -- letting the conversation spontaneously emerge, rather than needing to go in there with something prepared.
The alcohol helps you relax. Be relaxed and buzzed!
1) be attractive.
Not even banter, you aren't pulling a 10/10 with a face like Steve Buscemi.
Ill be Steve Buscemi has hit 10's
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Text game is a different animal. Personally I would focus on gaming her properly in real life. Women aren't evolved to choose mates on the basis of text conversations, so if a girl isn't standing directly in front of you there's about a zero percent chance of moving things forward.
Tease her in real life with push/pull, misinterpretation, negging, etc. When she's at an emotional high, lead her to come get a drink with you (after college or whatever). Venue change. Escalate. Pull.
"At what point does persistence become clinginess/neediness."
If you don't have a needy vibe, then never. The way this was once explained to me is as follows:
Imagine that you're at college studying engineering. Suddenly, you get a call from Jeff Bezos, asking you personally to come work for him at the highest levels at Amazon. You're floored. You freak out. You stutter down the phone that you'll have to think about it. Obviously, you want the job but don't want to appear desperate, and you're overwhelmed by how much responsibility you would have. He says that's fine. He proceeds to call you every few days over the coming weeks, asking if you've made your decision and continuing to highlight the ways he thinks the job will be a great fit for you.
Is Bezos being "needy" or "clingy"?
No. He clearly is the higher value person in the situation. But he's being PATIENTLY PERSISTENT with you, because he understands that such a great offer is totally unexpected and overwhelming for you, and that he needs to persist in letting you get comfortable with the idea.
Most Likely Translation: "Please orbit me. I think you're a funny guy and I like all the attention you pay me, but kindly walk back into the Friendzone that you just tried to walk out of."
Secondary Possibility: She is now free to pursue a relationship, er, "plate-ship" with you.
Most Likely Outcome: "CRAIBaby, you're so sweet, but I'm just not ready for a relationship now, because I just broke up with my boyfriend" - and within the week, she will be paired up with some d-bag who...isn't you.
Depends on your level of Frame and Amused Mastery.
Depends, actually. If she's in his league, then sure, she'll plow the road for him, but if he's too far above her, she will often reject him as a preemptive strike, because she realizes she's just a pump-n-dump. Most women "know" (subconsciously) how attractive a man her beauty can hold, whereas men will swing for the fences, because that's what we do.
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You are in a different situation....you say don't ask about fucking up when she asked her to walk her to her apartment.
That is important because she gave you a chance to smash her pussy and you failed....that changes things significantly.
How to proceed largely depends on how bad you fucked up that chance....does she see you now as a inexperienced boy, an uninterested gay friend or an asshole?
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Well if this is how you talk about her she's dodging a fucking missile by flaking out on you. I can't believe you talk about people like this. You literally just want to bang her like some sort of achievement? You must lack severe confidence if you're this desperate to get laid so you feel good about yourself for once. I wish I could watch you interact with this girl because I imagine she finds you repulsive and just acts nice so you don't freak out and turn her into a fucking lamp or something. Jesus christ, man, this is pathetic.
Cmon man you're doing all this "supposedly" cool shit yet you're wrapped up by one girl.
Don't tell me you're not, you wouldn't have written 2 big posts about her if you weren't.
Your life, your vision transcends any woman. If you've known her a while, have escalated but it lead to nothing, then move on.
"I have no clue how she sees me" - that's how women think, not men.
I suspect the OP isn't writing for the 'god-tier' hot guys.
Also, bear in mind w.r.t. my reply abt your dilemma that (a) I don't now anything about you or her, so I'm intuiting from what you tell us, and (b) I am incredibly jaded. /shrugs
if walking her to her apartment was an indicator of attraction, and you fucked it up big time, she might be ghosting you because she thinks you rejected her.
Seriously bro, just escalate
Excellent post. Honestly I think this is the best guide in this genre I've ever read, at least in recent memory. The buttery slide analogy in your blog post was fantastic as well. Keep up the great work.
Thanks man, that really means a lot to me. I put a lot of time into rewriting this over and over, so it's great to know it connected.
Typical pre-2014 era PUA bullshit; it's no surprise to me you mentioned you read and were influenced by RSD. So a strong frame is all it takes, huh? Listen, it's true the hottest women date all types. Sometimes they date hot male models. Sometimes they date low-life gangstas or drug dealers. Sometimes they date rich old men. But they're never going to date an average guy because of his "strong frame."
This is not what I see in real life. This is what exists in the theoretical bubble you've created in your mind an in attempt to boil pickup down to one easy thing. Let's deal in reality.
Looks-Height-Finances-Social Status. That's what women look for. You need to be perfect in one of those categories or above average in all of them to have a chance with the hottest women. Even the average women these days.
A strong frame... What a magic fucking wand this is, if only I had known!
"Let's deal in reality."
Ok, here's the reality. Our minds are wired in such a way that we will find confirming evidence everywhere to support what we already believe. This is called confirmation bias.
If you believe (like I once did), that women are ONLY attracted to looks-height-money-status, you'll see confirming evidence for that everywhere, while unconsciously blocking out any evidence that contradicts it. This is how normal brains work.
I have found that viewing attraction as if it is purely about frame gets me better results than viewing attraction as if it's purely about status.
Which one is true? I don't know. I don't care.
I only care about results.
And if one lens through which to view of the world gives me happiness and sex and pleasure, and the other one doesn't, then I'll choose to see reality through the first lens.
This post explains what worked for me. But you don't have to adopt my lens of viewing the world if you don't want to. It's a free country.
I don't think so
This blew my mind, quite literally.
I just had to respond because this is so douchey. This reads like you've never spoken with a woman before. You are likely making this list because you want Internet idiots to think you're hot shit even though you and everyone else who says "sidebar this" will never get laid unless you date rape someone. You make it seem like women are just objects waiting for your tiny little dick. You're actually the worst kind of person.
This right here folks, It's what we call Male Hamstering at it's finest.
I was just about to say the same thing
This here, people. When a man calls another man a douche, he's recognizing superior frame. Always. "Asshole" and similar words can mean other things - douche and douchebag always mean "I'm intimidated by your frame".
Yes I'm clearly threatened by your frame over the internet. Must be the frame of my phone. Rationalize all you want, but you idiots make it harder for us nonrapists to get laid. Luckily at the rate you're going, you'll be the last of your genetics.
This is maybe the most blue pill comment I have read on this sub in months. What's your amazing seduction method, whiner?
Seduction method, lol. Anyone who has a seduction method obviously are not getting laid. People, not just women, can tell an organic personality vs a guy who has obviously researched pick up tricks. This particular article reads as a little rapey with the whole rejection isn't really rejection bullshit.
wow this is very well written and puts me in a good mindset
Thanks, that's the primary goal!
Great post. I signed up.
Your site is unreadable on mobile, FYI.
Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy the content!
I'll have to look into that mobile thing, it reads fine on my iphone, are you on android?
Oooorrrrrrr.......not jump through hoops like a fucking slaveboy and #mgtow this motherfucker. Haven't had sex in 4 years and my life has never been better (I'm dead serious on both counts). I did a pro/con list and dealing with women just ain't worth the physical pleasure/ego boost sex provides. What I lose there I make up for in a myriad of ways. Mentally and physically I have never been better.
You sack of shit, if you're not a loser you can build attraction with a woman through a normal enjoyable conversation. You don't need to ''jump through hoops'' to get laid.
You're just a loser whose involuntary celibate, like all MGTOW faggots.
terrible
basically all of it
I'm 7 for 7 on chicks over at my place so far for anyone wondering. First time over, all of them with clothes off within the first 2-3 hours
This advice is trash i'm sorry but I gotta say it. Especially 14 lol, "oh you gotta a d*ck so she wants you"
bruh every dude has a fuking d*ck and every girl does not want you
The best quick real advice I've ever seen for you guys to read would be the 16 commandments of poon ( google it )
Thanks for the feedback, glad you got a system that works for you!
Ooook....
No offense, but this looks more like "Abussive women are ok because it's all TRP in the end, you are just a cuck libtard who doesn't get it" self-delussion than actual advice.
yeah, I get it. Women shit-test men and all that. Ok, I agree with you.
But there not only should be, there IS a limit on "shit-tests"
If she says "Oh, you are such a player, I bet you say the same to all the girls" she is shit-testing you.
If she sets you on fire, she is a crazy psycho. No shit test, no bullshit. Its her fault, it's not yours for not being "manly enough"
I belive your post doesn't convey that, it just focuses on "over-frame the woman"
They are very good and valid advices, but if taken in it's entirety, this can be read as an "always be alert because life is a total chaotic war".
Nah man, sometimes I wanna relax with a girl. If she shit-test me, I will go with another who actually prefers to talk about random shit before fucking wildly.
5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.
Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.
hahahah... is this supposed to be a joke?
This is the saddest collection of words over ever read.
It's telling that you dismiss this post without explaining why or bringing up any counter evidence.
Wow, this was actually very helpful. Interesting insight/well put regarding the "Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That's all." bit.
Thanks for reading. Yeah, that was personally the big insight for me that took me years of approaching to finally get. Glad you got the main message I was trying to drive.
You know what's ironic? You're the biggest BETA I know. By spending all this time fabricating theories about how to attract women you illustrate that you either don't have an SO or you have constantly failed at attracting / keeping a valuable mate.
For the young kids reading this - Just be yourself. If you find that isn't working, spend time with yourself and do what's realistic to improve. If you need advice from an actual adult who has had multiple very successful relationships feel free to message me. I am happy to help.
I'm building a red pill media company. That requires that I build an audience. Building an audience requires that I offer value to people. So right now, I do that by writing about my experience with game.
"you either don't have an SO or you have constantly failed at attracting / keeping a valuable mate."
No offense but I think you might be projecting, mate.
I'm starting to see reading comprehension suffers on this sub. Like the previous commenter, I have had one successful relationship after another since I was 17 and I am in my most fulfilling one yet.
'Experience with game'. Dude, get over yourself. That is laughably douchey. And if we are to talk about projection... The whole time I was reading this I couldn't help imagine you as the pre-experiment Captain America. But you know what was great about pre-experiment Captain America? He already had a woman who loved him for who he was because he was a kind and funny person. Not because of his 'strong frame'.
Do you know what sub you're in? Literally that's the exact opposite of the mantra. Read the sidebar, and quit spewing idiocy. Another suggestion: Search for "Just be yourself" in this sub and see the results, then see yourself out.
"Just be yourself" is literally the in the feminist manifesto for how to pick up women. If "just being myself" got me women, I would never have had the need to come here.
I'll break it down so it's easy for you.
Want a long lasting, successful relationship? Be you, and be you2 because that's how you find compatible women. Women who like you for who you are when you are the most you. If it hasn't worked, you haven't found others compatible, it takes time and patience. Not everyone can be with anyone.
Want to fuck girls at a college bar for the rest of your life? Lift weights and develop your inch thick 'strong' frame. Enjoy paying for her shoes the rest of your life.
Right, but you're missing the context of TRP. There are plenty of blue pill betas out there who are "just being themselves," and they're getting eaten alive left and right by the women they love.
Fundamentally, women love different than men. There is no good/bad judgment in that, it's simply reality. But I needed to be taught how to be a man, in our 21st century feminized society that's not something that comes natural. I'm proud that you popped out like that, but you're overlooking the realistic struggles that cause many men to come here.
Found this on AskTRP. They made a movie based on exactly what I'm saying.
How do you know he's a BETA? Do you know OP in real life?
Check out my comment. Makes it pretty clear why I think that.
He's creating a following to shill his pickup website
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My advice is don't be too overt when closing the deal.
Give the girl plausible deniability. Make up a silly excuse for her to come home with you. "Let's go to my place quickly, you have to meet my cat, you're gonna love him, blah blah blah. You can't stay more than 30 minutes though, cos I have an early morning tomorrow so don't think anything's happening between us tonight because as soon as I let you pet my cat I'm kicking you out." Etc.
The girl KNOWS she's coming back to your place for sex. But by giving her a dumb excuse, she can PRETEND to herself/her friends that she's not "slutty". It's all about plausible deniability.
That's because women (through their desire to be ambiguous in order to further their sexual strategy) have made "getting laid" and "harassing her" exactly the same.
It need not be like this. A girl could simply say "sure, let's fuck" or "no thanks", in which case seduction and harassment would look completely different.
But they intentionally make seduction look like harassment to absolve themselves of all responsibility.
Women are rude to get rid of guys they don't like, and rude to guys they adore to test them. The behaviour is the same. That's why seduction and harassment look the same.
In short: tough shit... we didn't make the game this way, they did.
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great post. i've noticed the tests will get more intense after a while if you dont escalate, then they'll eventually stop as she loses interest. i've learned that if i don't escalate before she increases the level of her tests, i've lost and need to strike quicker. it happens pretty quickly, so you really have to just keep at it like you say
This post is pure gold - so many lessons many of us have experienced but never been able to understand in this complete a context - and so well distilled.
Mods should sticky this.
Thanks! Really appreciate you saying that, that's the exact effect I was going for
Nah man, thank you. That really helped me put some past experiences that have been bugging me into perspective.
A stong frame isn't everything. If your value is low you will get socially annihilated.
If you're willing to take shit and being ignored just to "be persistent and still try to fuck this 10" you have no self respect.
Your post is basically old-schooll PUA advice.
Oh God please tell me you're not serious.
Sorry to hear it didn't connect with you
Bingo! I'd like to add some key points based on reading and experience 9s. You covered most of the points quite well.
A) While in public and at bars direct and forward is a major demonstration of value, at small parties I've always done well playing coy. I focus on the high status males (because they're great company) Sooner or later the HB8s and HB9s will begin compliance testing "hey get me a drink", "tell me your name", "how do you know John and Cindy?" Either ignore their questions/commands or joke around and never give a straight answer. At some point they'll be very curious and there'll be a 5-15 minute period where you get peppered with shit tests. If you make it through, soon the girls pretty much start grabbing you and you pick one. However if you're smart you'll know that HB8s and HB9s are highly fueled by preselection.
B) Which brings me to point 2: If you're interacting with HB8s and HB9s you would do well to play off 2-3 girls against each other. I've even had gay guys flirt with me at the bar while I'm picking up a girl. The girl will usually respond by rubbing my crotch or similar. For most of the hottest girls I've been with, there have been 2 or 3 in the running on that same night. Also when your out with HB8s and HB9s if another one crosses your path, flirt, sneak in a kiss and grab a number. Girls love "poaching."
C) What is the essence of an HB8/HB9? Extreme femininity. Expect Hb8s and HB9s to be emotional rollercoasters - it's the estrogen. Be a rock. From day 1 to the end. These women can seem crazy! Be ready. You absolutely must be masculine back or they will misbehave. Put them in their place, be firm.
Solid post. I agree with everything you've just said.
Especially:
B) Preselection is god. I remember this one time I was in the zone at a club. Was making out with a random chick (maybe a 7), took her by the hand and then walked up to a 9, and made out with her instantly while still holding the other girl's hand. The 9 in question was about an inch taller than me -- the type of girl who would have blown me out straightaway normally, yet now there was instant compliance, instant making out without even saying a word. Why? Just because I was still holding the hand of this other vaguely cute chick. Needless to say, I've tried to replicate this but it's hard to pull off! You've really gotta be in the zone to do it.
C) HB8/9/10 = extreme femininity. I think that's a really good way to look at it. It's not necessarily that these girls are more "selective" so much as due to being highly feminine and erratic, they require you to be extremely masculine, and anything that falls short of that will get destroyed.
All that's missing is style's C's vs U's routine. Basically a call to early PUA, built on the premise that any lardass can impress women with his personality.
The reality of America:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-49704.html
bluepill nonesense, especially your second point
looks are literally the only thing that matter
you're delusional af if you think a konfident 5'2'' ugly ethnic would slay more (or at all tbh) than O'pry or Barrett even if they acted like complete beta cuckolds. the only time uglycels are ever going to get laid is when they meet tryone after the girls they try initiating contact with call the cops on them.
I like the post. I think a lot of it is actually very true. However if you assume all girls will bang you you're in for a rough time. Especially if you lead with "Wow your bitchy cheerleader act turns me on" that's how you get a drink or a punch in the face.
There's a line people need to realize between being "Alpha" or "frame" or whatever else you want to call it and fucking weird. You leaving with your head up high is not a defeat. It's just a redirection.
I wish this sub would make up its mind about what really attracts women and stick with it.
I get that several factors are at play in terms of attraction: Looks, Money, Status, confidence, dominance, body language, social skills. But since the subject is on getting laid with bombshells, there is a minimum threshold that must be met for such women to want casual sex, and that threshold is Looks.
Height, muscles, mass, symmetrical face structure. These are the very first things women notice when a man approaches, and the primary measure by which she determines whether she will sleep with him (www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4dIz5q648&t=15s). If he at least looks good, then he can play conversational gymnastics.
I can't believe this is being stickied and upvoted as if short, fat, skinny men are finally going to be banging 10s just by "being more confident" and passing tests. I guarantee OP is 6ft with decent looks and some muscular build.
Notice that I said in the post looking good WILL help your game, WILL make getting laid smoother, and WILL increase your probabilities of pulling hotties. Nowhere did I deny that.
And yeah, I lift and take care of myself like anyone else here. That's MANDATORY for a man, for more reasons than just looking good.
My experience is this: I've been ugly (skinny, small, bad acne). I've been semi-"handsome" (some muscles, decent face, nice clothes). The reactions from women are not all that different.
I spent a long time trying to work on my looks, but I was still basically celibate. It's when I first started to approach, and then mastered the art of enduring tests, that my game exploded. This leads me to think that while looks are important, they're not necessarily the highest LEVERAGE point in terms of results.
Just my experience, mate. You're free to have your own opinion.
Here's a short old balding ginger absolutely killing the game.
Go ahead and try hamster this away. Paid actresses? Drunk girls? Go on.
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I'm sorry it didn't resonate with you.
I don't know, but I found this post rather helpful and simple. Although I felt like you repeated a lot of things many times. That said, I appreciate your effort you put into this post and your website.
You taught me many things today, thank you kind stranger.
edit: If you read this comment, tell me your thoughts about if you should smile or not during approach/further actions
Thanks! The repetition is deliberate by the way, it's a form of hypnosis ;-)
Smile or not: I tend to go in either already laughing/smirking like a bastard (from joking with my friends from before or whatever), or if it's daygame I'll approach with kind of a half-smile.
I think all these things are pretty subjective to the person, however, and the demands of the situation. I tend to come across as overly aloof and uncaring in my default mode, so I smile and act "friendly" to correct for that. But for another guy -- who's problem is that he's TOO talkative, TOO friendly -- it might be better to do the exact opposite and actually ramp up the dickhead vibe.
So I guess what I'm saying is experiment. You'll find what works for you if you A/B test it.
You're just going to be more bitter and depressed when his "grow your dick" pills don't work. You didn't learn anything, he's just writing fantasies for bitter virgin boys. If you think that not knowing this is what is keeping you from getting laid, it's not. Maybe it's the fact that you think of women as a commodity and that sex is a reward for being nice (which is retarded because to be nice means that you don't expect anything from it). This dude is a snake oil salesman who is selling you promises that no one can deliver upon.
It's total bullshit. If a strong frame is all it takes you can quit the gym, quit your job and live in a tent in the woods. As long as you have a "strong frame" when you periodically wander into town to pickup women. Laughable.
Not so, remember the story about the homeless guy who was sleeping with 7s & 8s? Strong frame can help you make the best of any situation. It shows you have the strength and mental fortitude to take on the world, regardless of your personal circumstances.
If shaming tactics are the only mechanism by which to attack the OP, get that shit out of here man.
Definitely disagree if you do, but you've offered no thoughtful contradiction to support "getting girls isn't that complicated".
Apart from that, keep in mind that complicated is a relative term. What's simple to you is complicated to the next guy. A lot of this stuff comes natural to some men, but reverse engineering the anatomy of an approach to close success can be incredibly useful to those less naturally inclined.
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I saw "stronger frame" and immediately thought:
http://i.imgur.com/NRdisUb.jpg
29
Biggest take away from this post IMO with where I'm at. One time this girl straight up told me, I can't date you anymore because it makes me worried to know that you have so many options and that you could leave me so easily at any time.
There is a grain of truth in this, but it's like listening to an intellectual version of "a man of Jesus". Whatever he says will form a prelude to a later lie: here TRP dogmas about "shit tests".
The whole discourse is based on the veracity of that mysterious force that I never saw in real life (but "you just have to wait and Jesus is there in the corner"). What exactly are "shit tests"? Nothing more than an "enlightened" hamster used by unattractive men to rationalize rejections!
But there IS a grain of truth in original post. You can indeed circumvent/prevent rejections through dominance, status and frame, but that has its limits too. If circumstances are perfect, you may fuck her and she won't have a Sahara snatch (which is an achievement only because you haven't seen better), but in the long term if you make the mistake of sticking with her you have everything to lose.
Case in point: OP LTR-ed someone who originally loathed him. Maybe he managed to miraculously change her mind (but I don't believe in miracles, sorry Jesus), but more likely he's just a nice guy she thought as a perfect settling down opportunity.
Before injecting yourself with feel-good bullshit, have a shower of reality and grow some spine! You are not her monkey, you are not there to perform for her, you are not to wag your tail to someone who "looked at me like I had leprosy". How in the name of Jesus Christ would anyone still be around and actually pursue (!!!) someone who behaves like that is beyond my understanding...
These words: "She was just shit testing you because you have TOO HIGH VALUE"
Ring like a variation of: "It's the DEVIL that made her react that way!"
Yeah. Everything in this is wrong lol. Kinda rapey vibes.
HAHAHA..
Okay wait.. that's not funny. It sounds like you're more of a date rapist/rapist than a ladies man. You really think women all say yes when they mean no, ignore men for attention, and ask you to leave them alone just so you continue to pursue them?
It's much more likely the woman is ignoring you or telling you to leave them alone because they don't want to talk to you. Now leave us alone. Kbye.
holy fuck this is the stupidest thing i've ever read lmao.
I know someone that goes on this subreddit, and he recently got kicked out of Layola for sexual harassment. Yeah no thanks.
First of all, I LOVE this post. Bookmarked it. I have some input though.
I am guilty of having 2nd mindframe. I think that just because I know of TRP (and "the truth"), eat well, have hobbies and lift, I am better than everyone. Then I see a younger, better looking guy and I get depressive. It really is cognitive dissonance, like you said. I want to thank you for this point, and will try to change my "mantra" to "i am enough".
I dont understand this one though. What is a rejection than? How do you know a woman is rejecting you and not just testing you? Anything that could be taken as a rejection, you turned it into a "it's just another frame test". Can you please elaborate?
Thanks, yeah that was a major sticking point for me too. It's counterintuitive, but I find I actually get more confidence from the understated frame of "I'm just a man" than I do from trying to impose a narrative onto myself that I'm some kind of high value alpha. (Of course the ironic thing is that you end up SEEMING to be more alpha to other people, who don't understand how your frame is so unshakeable.)
What is a rejection? Rejection is a word. It does not refer to any objective reality. The objective reality is that we're just particles and atoms colliding with each other in empty space. Is labelling something a "rejection" useful? Not particularly. So why use the word at all?
Thanks for your answer. Regarding your answer about rejection: Yeah, sure, u can say that we are just particles (dust in the wind, only live once, or whatever you come up with), but you're still going to come out as a tryhard/loser for not taking a hint. Eventhough the girl will understand your philosophy.
I think a man feels when a woman is really rejecting him, or just frame testing him. She can say "i dont like you" in both instances, but in one, you will see how her body language is honestly telling u to fuck off.
Apart from the Rational Male and IllimitableMan's stuff ,this is the best post I've seen in the sub , and I've been here for 2 years .
Thanks for the quality post and your service to the community.
It is good to remember not to overthink things, and that most of the game is passive. Holding frame is 90% of equation. I've had girls tell me they hate being around me because they run through underwear too quickly. I mean these girls are getting that wet just from normal non-sexual interactions, that just goes to show how arousing self-confidence and leadership qualities are to women, and I'm like a 6 or a 7.
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.
100% agree. It's very difficult for us to conceptualize because it's rare for us to get physically aroused by a girl's (non-sexual) behavior. But girls really are wired to get physically turned on for guys who behave in a way that assumes authority.
Wow, do you actually think this way? You are such a tool it makes me want to flush my phone down the toilet.
I stumbled in here from all. My jaw is on the floor from the amount of delusion and desperation in this thread/subreddit. Holy fucking shit people are bat shit crazy smh. I would kill to be a fly on the wall while these fools actually try to approach women and/or see the reality behind these posts. It would probably be some of the best laughs I've had in a while. I really feel pity for any guy who buys into this shit.
While there is indeed a lot of good advice in this post, it still has the fundamental flaw of all PUA style pick up guides.
It is laced with hamstering / wishful thinking that looks are somewhere low on the list of attraction rather than the top of the list.
It also plays on the fantasy of ugly / fat / short guys that they can game their way into just about any woman's pants.
Please just stop with this shit. Anybody with rudimentary powers of observation and life experience knows for a fact that a genetically gifted guy can get away with just about anything and still get laid.
Does that mean learning game a physically unattractive guy is of no use? No. but this is TRP.
Please don't sell that "If you look like Danny Devito, just hold frame and you'll bang models" horse shit here.
Yep. The multitude of people praising this post shows how hopeless it is for most on this sub.
Probably one of the 10 post I've read on this site.
Great work.
The nail that hit the head though was that approaching makes you appear alpha. I've never thought about that before. Honestly I just thought most normal dudes approach girls whenever the mood strikes. But as an average looking dude, I have pulled some nice tail whenever I put the whole thing together.
Thanks a lot, I appreciate the feedback!
Yeah and the funny thing is that a lot of hot girls actually get approached LESS than mid-tier girls because they're so intimidating to most guys, so when you simply walk up to them, say hi and be normal, they see you as having massive balls.
This post is such a great compilation of multiple aspects of TRP that I think it should be sidebarred. I'm saving this post that's for sure
It deals with execution of the ideas of TRP as opposed to just theory, which is something many who come here struggle with.
Thanks, I really appreciate that.
"Bitch Face" came on the scene in the late 1990's.
Women trained in the arts of being feminine (old school) would smile.
I'm 55 years old and actually lived through it so I'm not accepting the "bitch face is normal" concept.
However... there were always tests but normally a woman waited until she got her "hooks" into you first.
Typically the first "test" happened a few months into dating.
(it was called your "first fight")
dating a model right now and this is legit most of the stuff she did early on.
sidebar material forsure, covers all the basics of frame, shit tests, indifference, mastery,etc...
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Good to hear you're doing well for yourself! Yeah, a lot of people don't realize it but the ability to deal with this kind of bullshit is just the price of admission to dating super hot girls. Of course, once you've passed that initial bitch shield barrier, they then become super sweet and feminine once you're involved with them, so it all balances itself out.
Can you post a pic of yourself?
Fantastic read! In my limited experience, that's spot on. Here's the first test my current gf gave me when I texted her the day after we met at a party: "I thought you were a pussy, not a player"
She thinks I'm a pussy!? Nah, OP and I see right through that. A hearty laugh followed with "I don't play with pussy." is the correct response.
"I don't play with pussy"
Why you have a girlfriend if you're gay
Thanks for reading! Yeah it's funny, at this point the way I look at it is that if I'm not generating those kinds of tests, I must be doing something wrong and might even need to actively provoke them.
I receive so much conflicting information from this site. Cold approach is pointless without social status, cold approach is the bees knees, etc How Am I supposed to plan?
Don't plan. Take action. Observe the results. Alter your approach until you get what you want.
Pickup is messy. This is just a guide. But a guide can teach nothing, it can only give direction. The only way to learn is by making mistakes. Then when you come back you'll see that the contradictory information was actually not contradictory at all, but complimentary.
You're right. Doing is better than planning.
Cold approaching in itself creates social status. It pre-supposes to the woman that you possess high status simply because you approached her. To actually do so and not give a fuck about rejection shows an invulnerability to whatever she may throw at you test wise. What sort of guy does this? A guy who sees himself as having higher status than herself.
Girls fuck guys of higher status and ignore guys of lower status.
Woooow! This is huge, I'm going to add it to my favorites and read it all.
Awesome post, this is very close to what I was coming to realize recently and it's so good to see it written. Two follow up questions:
First, I wonder if you have noticed that you calibrate this strategy to the girls of various ages. I have seen, I believe, that as girls mature from 18 to 24, say, the shit tests become less harsh and the conversation more fluid overall. If you have seen this, what do you recommend for girls on the younger side?
Second, I find it easy to confuse the "I am enough" perspective with complacency. To be sure, I am definitely a happier person when I believe that perspective, but it's hard for me to distinguish "being enough" yet still wanting to run around and talk to a bunch of girls. Have you had this issue? If so, how did you reconcile that and keep willing yourself to not be complacent?
I agree that the older girls get, the less they test. I personally amp up the teasing and push/pull on younger girls a lot as they tend to respond well to it.
You're definitely right that as a mindset it can make you kind of lazy. Personally, my solution to that is just the natural sex drive I get when I haven't had sex for over a week or so. That tends to get me in killer instinct mode fast.
If anyone here has worked in inside sales, you know it boils down to the same thing.
You cold call a prospect, there is a very marginal chance that they are ready to buy simply because you pitched them. Likelihood of that is close to zero.
But if you stand your ground, hold frame, and handle objections properly (not defensively), you can extend the conversation with the prospect and increase your chances of closing.
You know who the best inside sales people are? Look around and it becomes pretty clear cut. They're the most thick skinned, resilient sons of bitches that aren't fazed by the thought of getting blown out. They WELCOME objections from prospects, not avoid them like the plague.
YES. Got it in one.
A good salesperson understands that he needs to give the prospect TIME and SPACE to make a decision -- via not fucking off the moment he hears a no. That might look "persistent" or even "stubborn" but actually it's not an aggressive thing at all. He's giving the prospect's LIZARD BRAIN time to calm down, think through the situation and realize that he needs the product. It's an act of compassion and patience, not of force.
Gold. tl:dr - the strongest reality wins
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brb reinstalling pic viewer
"(Having a strong frame is a result of high testosterone levels.)"
If not i am fucked right? Tell me how one should get hight test levels, but don't tell me that crap of go the gym, sleep 8+hrs, don't fap, not eat processed meat etc. Because i ve been doing this for 3 years ( except for nofap which i had 2, 3 months streak in two years.)
Tell me how i get testosterone and become a better man, seriously i need to know this
"Tell me how one should get high test levels, but don't tell me that crap of go the gym, sleep 8+hrs, don't fap, not eat processed meat etc."
What you're saying amounts to "tell me how to get rich, but don't tell me any of that crap about working hard, learning to sell, and bringing value to the marketplace"
On a serious note, if you REALLY have been doing that for 3 years and your T is still low, look into testosterone replacement therapy.
And it's so true what you say about tests, and I follow the same mindset. "Shit-tests" don't exist, just filters that sort out the dirt, and you only pass when you are clean instead of covered with shit they try to keep out. The tests are only called shit by idiots who hate these tests, because they expect to pass through the filter while they are the dirt they want to keep out of their zone. A car with a strong filter will always have a clean engine, and one with none the contrary.
If you want a woman that's full of crap, get one without a filter. If you want a clean qualitative one, make sure that you are as clean as you expect your women to be. Keep yourself clean.
Very good post, /u/redpillschool can we get this on the sidebar?
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Goddamn this is fucking gold. I'm in a LTR now, after having some great success using PUA tactics and TRP mindset, but this can help even in LTR. frame > all. Being relaxed > women's erratic personalities.
Nice man, yeah I'm in a serious LTR and I find it's just as applicable
Passing shit tests don't make women wet; failing shit tests make women dry. A subtle but important distinction. This list is good at the defense, but completely overlooks the offense - how to make them wet. Once you pass a bunch of shit tests, you're still going to have to make her want you. The key to making women wet is mastering the escalation of sexual tension and making her feel good. Really good. There's 1,001 methods on how to achieve this, and everyone has their own style (cocky-funny, aloof rockstar, mysterious Don Juan, playful daredevil, etc). Whatever the method is, you pull her by being the man that gives her the most tingles.
This is a decade old but a few things on here give a great summary of what I'm talking about:
http://www.vice.com/read/poster-v12n1
hahaha oh for the days when Vice was actually good. Gavin McInnes is a beast
Mods need to point you for this one. You get a saved post from me.
Hey Arnold makes way more sense now.
It can be really annoying though when you're trying to eat + have earphones in + are reading something and a guy approaches you and won't leave you alone because he's convinced you're just playing hard to get and are actually DTF.
Like, no dude I'm just trying to eat my sandwich.
What would you do if she told you, she had a bf?
First of all, you may find this as nitpicking but your constant mention of the word "frame" kind of reduced the reading quality throughout your post. You said it 59 times. I think that's something that you perhaps should keep in mind and avoid, if you decide to do any future post installments.
Anyway, now onto the post. Your message here is essentially that humans have an engraved mechanism in their brain in order to prevent the human species from going extinct, therefore "here's how women test you and work when they choose their mate". You could've easily broke down your post into a few paragraphs and made the point: Women are attracted by a biological perspective which means a woman search and choose men based on their natural instinct which tells them to look for a man which possess the following traits and abilities:
These are the most crucial considerations for a woman when they want to choose a mate. Then there's of course some other personality traits which I mention later on (which obviously are subjective to each person).
I feel like this is common knowledge and didn't see a need to repeat it throughout your post, making it feel like an unnecessarily long read.
And you would seriously continue pursuing a woman after they treat you like that? No man with self-respect would want to spend his time with that kind of woman. Also, no respectable woman would act in such a degrading manner to a fellow human, presumably you've had some bad luck in this area and are speaking from what normally would be a rare occasion. I know that some people may be into this, for who knows what reason but what I meant is in regards to what the majority of people on earth behave like.
Once again, similar to one of your earlier examples but this is simply inaccurate and misleading. Most women are interested in men with intelligence, humour and someone who can provide, like earlier stated. I think you've just had some strange experiences or are perhaps misinformed. Spending time with a partner would reveal if it's the right one, I don't understand why you have to keep bringing up examples of a woman acting in a deprecatory way to find out if it's the right choice. It certainly isn't the way women generally go/should go about it.
Nonetheless I thought you had a decent post even though I had some criticism regarding it, which is why I replied. I didn't like either that you focus your post and basically state that "women owns you", or was it only me who felt that way? A lot of it is also just your personal thoughts/opinions and isn't based on factual evidence but that's fine, you seemed to have started a discussion which I assume was one of your motives behind this.
I know that it's a bit late to post here but I figured that I might as well share my thoughts too since it's only a month old as of me posting this comment.
Any reason for the left pupil?
All the commenters asking "but is this reeeaal?" are completely missing the point.
I loved this post, just reading it made me feel inspired and put me in a more confident and excited mood. It bred new ideas that I'm excited to try out.
When I go and talk to a girl, she'll then sense that, and we'll all have a better time. OP has done something hugely positive with this thread. Don't hate, congratulate.
A Thank you would not be enough for the high value of content that you've put out for us. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work.
Hey really appreciate your sharing your perspective on approaching women and your methodology. Its a fresh perspective while controversial, it definitely stirs up new ideas and possibilities.
The consistent narrative I gather from your post is its all about having the stronger "Frame", and letting the woman's Frame eventually submit to yours. Practically I understand practically this would look like persistence + unreactiveness to her (tests) + positivity.
I was wondering if you have recorded a real life example of this and can share it. If not can you point me towards recorded examples of a guys Frame winning over a woman's, in the face of continuous shit testing?
Is it really worth it? Id rather spend 10 minutes jacking off and then do something productive.
this is the best post of this year.
Wow thanks man, as this is my first ever post on this sub that's really flattering, glad it was useful to you
"Even the hottest, slimmest yoga bunny pigs out on pizza every once in a while. It’s human nature. We’re not strong. We’re weak. We pretend to have “standards” to the outside world. But down deep inside, no one has any standards, and we know it. We have no will, no self-control."
If this statement isn't a wake-up call, I have no clue what is. Bravo.
But the analogy is shit. Pizza is good because it tastes better than food that is good for you. The same is not true of men that are below the standard a woman knows she is capable of getting.
Just take the compliment. Geez.
Ignore the male hamstering.
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lol sure bro
I'm tall, handsome and lean. Can't even begin to tell you how much more tail I pull than your average insecure, ugly gym bro such as yourself. You can be 240 pounds of pure muscle, but if you're ugly and have a pathetic little dick it really doesn't fuckin matter. Nice try, though.
well the key word is insecure
Women decide to fuck men before they see their dicks.
If you want to fuck girls like a "warlord" , the best way to accomplish that is to actually BE a goddamn Warlord.
You can internal dialogue all you want, but at the end of the day, it still matters what you actually ARE. You guys are a bunch of stupid weak bitches for even entertaining for a second otherwise. And this talk of frame?
Who are you fooling exactly? If you know in your heat of hearts, honest with yourself, that you are not the thing pretending you are, somehow you are going to project that outward, just a little, and people will pickup that you're a fraud.
Improve yourself, not your frame. If you actually are awesome, really really, no pretending, no "I'm good enough" internal mantra garbage will be necessary. You won't have to fake confidence, because you'll have it for real. There won't be anymore tricking people into "giving you a chance" anymore.
If I was capable of feeling a useless emotion like sadness, I'd potentially feel that for you weak minded faggots who need this kind of lie. Get to work, and be the man you want to be. Don't buy into this PUA style type lies that are mostly used to take advantage of men who are low SMV and desperate.
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Impossible for me to say, I wasn't there. Seduction theory works great for strategy, but is terrible for post-mortem, not to mention pointless. Focus on building your skills and understanding in the present. Later when you look back you'll be able to figure out what happened, although by then you won't give a shit.
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I'm not OP, but sounds like something tough was probably going on in or life and/or she had some kind of trauma unrelated to you (eg. death in the family, rape, ton of stress), or something is just wrong with her because her reaction sounds excessively negative. Obviously she cares to some extent and/or is insecure because otherwise she would've just ignored your texts or blocked your #. The fact that she was staring at you like a psycho shows that you illicit a strong reaction in her. She sounds insane though, so personally I wouldn't waste my time because she's probably not worth it.
Yeah on reflection, I agree with this. People are crazy. Shit man, read the news. Moms kill their own babies, people eat each other, etc. Stuff like that happens every day. The world will make a lot more sense when you realize that the MAJORITY of humans are dealing with mental issues of some kind on a periodic basis, some more severe than others. Irrationality and weirdness is the rule, not the exception.
I'm a total noobstick, what is frame and frame control? Is that just one's view of the world and how they interact with that worldview?
Yeah it's a good question, and one that I avoided answering definitively because it's quite hard to put into words.
You're basically right to define it as your worldview, and how you behave as a result of holding that worldview. There's other elements to it as well, though.
I realize the irony of the fact that I've just written a post about how frame is the key to all of game and yet I can't properly define frame, but what are you gonna do, haha. It's late in my part of the world. I'll probably do a followup post about that topic so hopefully I'll answer your question better then. Thanks for reading!
Thank you for your honesty. I'm guessing it's just something that's more individual then it is umm teachable.
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Yeah, and the thing about that is that it's like creating fire -- you need FRICTION. If there's no challenge, no messiness, no friction, there's no arousal for the girl. It needs to be a little bit confrontational at times, to the point of "verbally sparring" with girls, while at the same time always being balanced out by an overall chill, positive vibe.
This is something gll always talks about. He mentions 'being smooth' is only possible in rare circumstances where the girl is open and interested and plays into your hand. Most of the time it's awkward and uncomfortable and anything but smooth. They don't play along, they don't contribute to the conversation, they dont flirt back with you, but eventually you're balls deep.
Yeah, GLL is legit, I dig that guy's stuff a lot. He also has great stuff on developing "killer instinct" and going for the pull super early that is really, really good.
Number 13 is really important to remember at all times. You could sell coaching classes and books teaching just 13 for people to use in all social situations.
Yeah, the "you are enough" frame is absolutely critical -- it's the "dark matter" that makes all of this work. I should give credit where it's due: my thinking on that has been informed a lot by a guy called Alexander, who used to work for RSD. He does his own Youtube channel now. I strongly recommend watching his videos on this topic because he covers this in WAY, WAY MORE DEPTH than I had space get into here. He's actually a genius, but not great at marketing or packaging his ideas in a digestible format, so not many know his stuff, although he's the best game teacher out there imo. Definitely check out his stuff on Youtube, you'll probably get it by searching "Alexander no reason you're not enough" or something like that.
Now question is.. how do you build strong frame?
P.S. Lifting is obvious guys, dont even bother. :D
That's an intelligent question. This is actually an extremely important topic which is rarely covered in enough depth, and I don't want to butcher it with a half-assed explanation. I might do a followup post on it.
Ok so the one I've run into lately that I don't know how to deal with or even what they are trying to get at exactly is when asking for a number being told, "not today." I can't tell if it's a test, a polite no, a sarcastic "never", and if it's a test I haven't thought of a good way to respond.
It's hard for me to give advice if I can't actually see your approach so anything I say might be way off base.
With that caveat in mind, I can tell you how I get the number in a way that works 95% of the time. Maybe it will work for you too.
After I've been talking to a girl for a while, I take out my phone, unlock it, then hand it to her. She takes it and while looking her in the eye I say "put your number in my phone."
This works in the vast majority of cases. Getting the number not to flake is, of course, a whole other story. But that's a topic for another time.
I read all of this, I really appreciate the depth here bro! I do have a question though if you are around. Please don't tell me all your "work" was done on a college campus where girls are already pretty easy to approach, where is the best scenario to test these kinds of tactis where you you actively get women back to your place without awkward inbetween stages? Say I'm at a club or a bar, would this still uphold if I had to cruise her back to my place in an Uber or something?
Yeah, this is how I run my nightclub game. This is actually geared for nightclub game specifically (though it works just as well in daygame, college campuses etc).
I like this frame. But I also like the latter "I'm better than anyone" mindset too which is what I currently use and love to use. However, would they both not be part of an umbrella that is "I am the prize"? Your frame is better for most people though as it is easier, has much less "requirements" (Being enough is easier to achieve than being the best) but for people who can pull off the latter, I would say it is best for them as the strength of such a frame is more charismatic.
Edit: Btw, why stare at the left pupil in a lul of conversation? Why the left and not right?
Yeah each to their own, I just find that the easier the frame is to maintain, the more energy I have, and the more relaxed I am.
Left eye or right is irrelevant. The point is to stare deeply into one of her pupils. Deep pupil to pupil eye contact builds sexual chemistry and gives the interaction a "man to woman"/"we're going to fuck" vibe rather than a "friend to friend" vibe.
Yup, definitely easier and thus, it is more stable/harder to break. Probably the frame I will adapt at the gym as that has been the only place I constantly struggle with the frame of "I am the best". Can't really keep it up when the dude next to me is Lifting triple what I am...
Oh got it, I thought there may be some scientific reason for the eye thing.
Yes, pre-trp, the reason I know I've done it is my game aware buddy immediately said "you didn't know what to do next so you gave up"
This post is legendary op. I am going to save this for sure!
Top quality post. Thank you
Would you be able to exemplify 25.a. "agree and amplify"? I'm having a hard time understanding it
The article you linked at the bottom of the page doesn't read well on mobile. The lines are jumped together
This!!!
Should be thought to guys in schools. Every dad should teach this to his son. Every man should read this. And re-read. It's a shame I've read this only now when I'm 47. It's the best thing I've ever read on pickup. You've explained it so well. Thank you Sir.
Really digging this post.
Quick question if you got a minute: How does a beaten down man who's been celibate for almost 4 years bounce back in your opinion? I feel like a goddamn virgin again, the idea of rejection frightens me, when in the past I'd welcome it with open arms. Was the last thing on my mind.
Just jump in both feet without thinking, or setup the game plan? I feel like I'm just overthinking it at this point.
Go somewhere where people will never see you again, and just talk to people.
This is fantastic. One of the best posts I've seen here in a while. It covers so many RP basics that it should be homework to read it and internalize as much of it as possible.
It's good that you point out certain things that reverse the tables too. I think a lot of guys here probably don't give themselves as much credit as they should. That's a killer. Only you know your flaws as intensely as you do. A girl knows nothing about you. There's no reason to assume you're not good enough, it only happens because people devalue themselves and is a huge reason why people preach self-improvement here, almost above all else.
It often doesn't occure to me to bother with women if they initially reject me, so reading this is a great reminder to not move on so quickly.
Wow. This is the best piece on attraction I've ever read. There's no cheap tricks, any shortcuts or bullshit. All you need to do is be confident, and everything will come your way. I love it, thanks for this!
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wow, beautiful. Thanks for the post
Having your frame affected just by the hotness of a girl is a really poor trait someone can have. We've all seen it happen that a person stars behaving differently than they normally do, and even mess it up for themselves by even lowering their value, basically communicating that they acknowledge the hot 9 as the alpha and they resigned themselve to be beta, just based on looks. I consider the frame to be made out of the pillars of self-respect, confidence and how you value yourself. There is no pillar that should melt because of some hotness. Another person shouldn't affect your frame at all.
"Hotness" should be completely forgotten about when you talk to a 9+, it's not important at all. What you care about is who this person really is, what their social value is, and for a 9+, it can be lower than a 5 in some cases. They can sometimes be completely dumb, a terrible person, or someone who doesn't respect themselves, you name it, but they take confidence in their hotness, be it conscious or unconscious, and build a frame from that, to which most people try to compare to. When you compare your frame to hers minus her hotnessframe, it's an easy game as talking to a 6 and lower in many cases. Besides the fact that most guys put the hot 10's on a pedastal, and this 10 has seen it all, and is tired by being talked to by people that don't treat them as an actual person themselves.
A 10 is much like a celebrity that is sick of his fans and gets adored and everything, and sometimes you just need to talk to them like they are a normal next door person. You will never see them have a beer or get friends with one of their fans, they rather stick with people who value the celebrity for who they truly are and don't give a shit what he or she is known for. You get acknowledged if you position yourself among them, not below them. You can't become a god if you worship one.
Yep, completely agree. I find I do best with hot girls when I just act kind of silly and play it dumb.
Ultimately if you get in relationship with this girl, what's it going to look like? It'll probably look like the two of you sitting around watching Netflix, being silly and goofy, play wrestling, having thumb wars, and just acting kind of dumb. So why not go in with that vibe from the beginning? Don't take yourself or her too seriously.
Guys treat hot girls with this kind of "awed reverence". The girls themselves just want to be silly and goofy, but they feel they have to live up to men's impression of them, causing them to put on a persona. It's a joke really.
This line of thought goes against what is in the "Fuck yea or no" on Models. What you guys think?
I'll probably check out your blog - this was such a great read even though I'm in a relationship. Have any general relationship advice since this is all about approaching? I feel like I could learn a lot. Say you're not as happy with your frame as you could be and are in a serious relationship and want to be better?
With this new found knowledge, will past rejects see through it or will it typically work on anyone.?
If they are on the blog, I'll tune into that...but my question is. Can we get some details on a few scenarios? She tests you, she walks away, you find her later, what do you say besides hello darkness my old friend?
What's some real world convo you have had once you passed the 1st test or 1st set of tests?
Good job writing some of the main points of TRP. I really appreciate you took you time. There seems to be a lot of male hamstering going on in the comment section.
I am an attractive, fit guy who seems to have everything going for me physically. Problem is I have lots of trouble approaching. Where should I start? I really appreciate your post, lots of good material.
Approach one girl a day for a month. Within 30 days you'll be unstoppable.
It's all about MOMENTUM.
So what if I keep approaching her and she threatens me with a restraining order? Then what ?
Smells like BullShit
Use common sense. Don't harass people. Don't be overly aggressive. Don't follow women home in the street at night.
This is not true, no need to make stuff up.
Only years of rejection can bring a solid quality post like this one. This post can save a lot of us so much time. Thank you brother.
Hahah you got that right. I've got straight up psychological SCARS from the amount of shit I had to take before I got this down. Glad it was useful to you
Thanks for this post. Its going to help me out tomorrow. I'm starting to put myself out there more and I want to start approaching.
I think this might be as close to the quintessence of the matter as I've ever read. Looking at past successes and failures through the lenses of inner game, passive test endurance, and "you are enough", I have more insight into my greatest successes and failures with women.
Patrice Oneal's analogy of the sensei at the dojo is a perfect analogy to the "unconquerable frame" idea in OP's post.
Patrice Oneal was a beast, I'll have to look that bit up
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You're a gentleman and a scholar
Ok my biggest question is this: If you break frame is it possible to regain it or should you just move on to the next one?
You'd have to be more specific for me to give you a proper answer.
I mean if you freak out on a girl and start screaming at her or something, then yeah, it's over. But in most cases, no, it's fine, keep calm and carry on.
What about the boyfriend mention??
I've been wanting someone to write something like this for months. Probably the best post on the importance of frame and passing shit tests I've encountered. You have a great, easy to follow writing style and your lessons are easily applicable. Props.
Nice one mate, I appreciate it
Can someone please explain what "Stare into her left pupil " is all about?
There's the unscientific claim that by staring at her left eye you'd stimulate her right, emotional brain - rather than her left, logical brain.
While we can't claim that this will work, claiming any certainty that it won't is just as unscientific. So you've got nothing to lose. It relieves you from having to decide which eye to look into - so that you have your mind free for more important things.
Look at whichever eye you want.
Left or right doesn't matter, the point is that when you focus on staring at one eye it makes you better at maintaining a sexual vibe through eye contact without wavering
One of the best posts Ive read on here. Thank you so much.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it
great post man! i learnt heaps thanks for posting.
I have a couple of questions.
is her frame stronger because she has MORE to protect. IE: she is a 9 there for more people desire her, so she has more to lose if she dates a " non-alpha " or" lower class of guy"