316,984 posts

You are not entitled to shit. She is not entitled to shit. One of these is reinforced by society.

950 upvotes
by trpposter on /r/TheRedPill
10 April 2017 06:26 PM UTC
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You are not entitled to sex.

You are not entitled to handjobs.

You are not entitled to anal.

You are not entitled to blow jobs.

She is not entitled to affection.

She is not entitled to attention.

She is not entitled to emotional support.

Society has no problem drilling the first four points into the male psyche from the age of adolescence (or even younger, given feminism's pernicious advance into education). However, try to apply this to women and you will be labeled a misogynist, a neckbeard and a bitter loser. If you manage to get an argument out of them, it will be in the vein of:

But it's shitty and abusive to withdraw -

No it's not. It is your prerogative to stop engaging in WHATEVER activity you no longer wish to continue, for whatever reason. You don't need to justify to anyone, including your partner, why you no longer wish to do X. Yes, this goes both ways: women are perfectly entitled to not justify their low libido to their boyfriends (and they usually don't), and men are perfectly entitled to not justify their lack of emotional intimacy with their girlfriends.

It is shitty and entitled to DEMAND X (where X is any activity in the list). If you feel you're not getting X, the problem lies with you, and you need to change yourself into a person your partner (or partners) will want to engage in X with.

What can you take away from this?

Crush your inner beta by always keeping in mind: you owe her nothing. Never cave, never apologize and above all, never justify.



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Comments

0 upvotesEpicLevelCheater2 years ago

By the request of an endorsed contributor, I am awarding you with a point for this submission.

319 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Thanks for this post. I really needed it.

I just went on a couple dates with a woman from Tinder. She looked pretty good and was funny. I was pretty touchy the whole time, she would smile and giggle a lot.

Second date I tried to kiss her, she wasn't having it, and said she just started using Tinder to make friends.

I was a bit surprised, but that's fine. I don't fault a woman if she's not attracted to me.

But she was surprised I was going for romance. Apparently?

When I said Nice Meeting you, good luck .... she was literally shocked that I didn't want to be friends with her ... like on the verge of tears. Like, she REALLY wanted to have a friend (just moved to this city). Damn, I still feel bad about it, for some reason. But I mean, damn, this is Tinder people ... shouldn't I be the one sad about being rejected?

Sigh ...

You're right though - I'm not obligated to be the emotional crutch. Damn though. So many weirdos out there ...

306 upvotespateuvasiliu2 years ago

Sounds like she's either a moron or a manipulator. No one uses Tinder to make friends.

100 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Plenty of women say that they are on tinder to meet friends.

191 upvotespateuvasiliu2 years ago

They can say whatever they want, they're either trying to save face or outright dumb.

I think the OP's friend was just trying to save face, no one is THAT dumb. Tinder is not even for dating, it's for outright hooking up.

53 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Exactly. Most of the chicks I have met in person on Tinder, I at least made out with and most I fucked. Many chicks I didn't meet in person were open to sending sexy or nude pics.

76 upvotespateuvasiliu2 years ago

Few women will admit '' I want to get fucked in the ass '' but that's what Tinder is for. Or they simply go there to lure in dudes and get some instant gratification from the matches/attention.

On the internet a 5/10 will get as much attention as a 7-8/10 due to how many thirsty dudes there are, making them think they are an actual 7-8/10.

19 upvotescalloberjig2 years ago

I fucked this one Tinderella ~HB7 who immediately after I finished said "Are we friends now?"

Weirdest shit ever

20 upvotesShakaLeonidas2 years ago

Tinder was good for hook ups from 2012-2014.

Now its used for. 1. Social Validation(orbiters) 2. Free Food, rides, hookah, drugs etc(orbiters) 3. Stalking, spying or trapping ex/current boyfreinds(BB&AF) 4. Freinds(more orbiters)

Wana hookup? Any single woman over the age of 30 walking a small dog is DTF. Some look better than the 21 year old hogs sending phone#s through tinder.

IG is the hook up site 4real

18 upvotesNiceKicksGabe2 years ago

MY NIGGA. ELABORATE ON PULLIN BITCHES ON IG

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

How is IG the hookup site? You just went from 30 somethings walking their dog to IG... lol

2 upvotesGentlemenMindset2 years ago

Looks like someone's preaching the DM slide. These guys have to learn.

15 upvotesyomo862 years ago

Anecdote: Plate after a banging session 'I just looking for friends on Tinder some with benefits giggles

13 upvoteswatcher452 years ago

They say that. They just dont want to come across as whores to guys they dont want to fuck.

13 upvotesbluexcollar2 years ago

"I never did this before, honest."

upvotesSpeakerToRedditors2 years ago

And they are not lying. they want many beta friends as possible to worship them and to buy them dinners.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Exactly. Look at what they do and not what they say. I have banged chicks who literally talked about how "they never do this."

Maybe they are telling the truth, but doesn't matter because they are doing it with me.

4 upvotes745gtes52 years ago

They say that because they've been conditioned to think that it's bad for them to be promiscuous. Just like young boys like about having sex with lots of girls.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

This girl I matched wants me to trap me into buying her food.

Got her number.

So the games begin...

What do you think?

11 upvotesStarter912 years ago

You are really not considering buying her food are you? I don't understand , you buy food for cats and dogs, but there are women who straight up says buy me a fucking food in Tinder chat. Where is the dignity?

9 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

They're looking for friends if you are a good beta. If you are a good alpha, then they are on there to fuck. Saying they "just want friends" is perfect female plausible deniability.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Exactly. More times than not, the chicks I met on tinder in person were DTF or I at least got a make out session. Some weren't, but that sometimes happens if you don't screen it enough. I immediately move on from women who want to "get to know you" before meeting. That usually means she isn't DTF with you.

14 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

[deleted]

14 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Exactly. It's funny because one of the chicks I met and banged first time we met, literally said "I've never done something like this before."

Even funnier is that she ended up blocking me on snapchat and unmatching me in Tinder. Chicks say they don't like being pumped and dumped, yet she was the one who decided to only fuck me once.

I love it when I don't even have to set up an actual date. I just escalate through text and snapchatting, then just go to their place and we have sex. I did it recently and hoping to bang another chick the same way. The second one has sent nudes to me, like the first one. Way cheaper than going on an actual date.

9 upvotesCunt_Robber2 years ago

That's every man's dream right there. I've definitely done it. But you need serious game, and serious SMV for them to really want you like that.

Thing is, once I started seeing success in screwing a few girls like this and seeing what it entails, I started to think that every girl had done this with some guy at some point. The girls who didn't put out by the 3rd date (it would usually come down to the third date when I indicated I was going to walk away if the 2nd was fruitless) started being nexted on my list. Time was precious, and their value was not as high as they seemed to think. If some dude fucked you a few hours after he got a drink in you or after getting you hot and bothered through some texts, why the fuck would I waste precious money, time, and resources for the same 10 minutes of fucking your brains out?

3 upvoteswebleytempest2 years ago

Yeah it's probably plausible deniability.

She's on there to make friends, right up until the point where she's suddenly on there to fuck, because the guy she just met on it satisfies her needs.

She probably believes it too. "I just want to make frie-.. oh my legs are spreading for you, what's happening?!"

2 upvotesYour_Coke_Dealer2 years ago

And they're usually really bad liars

3 upvotesPM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL2 years ago

Not one person in this world is stupid enough to speak English and be confused about what Tinder is for.

9 upvotespateuvasiliu2 years ago

Chicks will try to pussy out of being called a cocktease by saying they just wanted to make friends. Load of crap.

24 upvotesStillRedder2 years ago

[removed]

24 upvotesStillRedder2 years ago

Waiting till the second date to kiss is a huge mistake.

7 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Maybe. You are saying that this situation was salvadable though - I'm not sure it ever was. I think it was doomed from the start.

Yes, I definitely gave too much validation, for sure.

However, the kiss was at the end of date 2, it failed, then we had a brief talk about "what are you looking for? Oh? This isn't going to work out."

After the failed kiss, I just ended it. It was clear to me at that point that it was just platonic (eww) - even though I was stroking her back/ face/ neck/ legs pretty much the whole time. She touched me a lot too, but --- well it must be how she deals with guy friends.

My point is, the kiss wasn't a failed shit test, game was over at that point.

But yes, in her mind (I see now) - she was enjoying the attention and physical touch of a freshly minted orbiter. Then it was suddenly yanked away. Honestly didn't realize I was seen as an 'orbiter' and couldn't continue in that position.

I was fairly aggressive too (for sure). I usually kiss on the first date, but usually get laid when I save it for the second. In this case it backfired on me. (she was beyond hope, but I wouldn't have wasted the investment on a second date). Actually on the first date, I did kiss her on the cheek, she didn't have any problem with it, but is also sorta European ...

12 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You are saying that this situation was salvadable though

No, I'm saying it was over long before you realized it. By the way she behaved afterwards, it's probably because you gave her too much validation, likely by using it in response to shittests.

2 upvotesPM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL2 years ago

So, went on a date with this girl, whom I knew from the moment I asked for her number that it wasn't going anywhere. We still go on this date, I try to make moves (though not the smoothest in the planet), and unsurprisingly get shut down. Would a better man be able to salvage such a situation?

6 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

So, went on a date with this girl, whom I knew from the moment I asked for her number that it wasn't going anywhere. We still go on this date

This was the point it became unsalvageable.

1 upvotesSir_Distic2 years ago

even though I was stroking her back/ face/ neck/ legs pretty much the whole time. She touched me a lot too She was probably trying to be polite/keep you interested enough. You were initiating things and escalating things and she was just going along. I'm speculating but that's my guess.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

What shit test could you conjure up he failed?

27 upvotesyomo862 years ago

She wants an orbiter not a friend. Friendship is a two way street. Hoe many things she genuinly has done just for you?

11 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Well, yeah. Not sure if she is aware of the difference though. Also wanted to ingratiate herself into my friend group.

Eh. She's new in town and lonely, I get it. Unemployed sitting at home all day. I've been there. I just can't be that dude though. Look for fellow women, or meetup.com .... Nothing personal ...

12 upvotesGanaria_Gente2 years ago

See it this way. If genders were reversed and you were in her place, society would tell you to go out and socialize properly. And rightfully so

Not hang around hookup apps

She needs to grow up

15 upvotesjustgotalpha2 years ago

she wanted you to be her male prostitute,attention is all she wanted from you ,,,best thing you can do is next her with no anticipation,just NEXT the bitch period.

5 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

yeah, done. No intention of being an orbiter. I was VERY handsy. I just follow the mantra of no kissing on the first date (unless sex is very likely) - because I think it's more effective.

But uh --- I need to do shorter dates. And better gauge on the first one. Really though, this is a fluke. No one is really this clueless about Tinder.

2 upvotesFedor_Gavnyukov2 years ago

I go by if it feels right to kiss or if I feel like kissing her, then I go for it. most of the time on the first date. mostly successful, sometimes get rejected, but then when I stop contact, they usually come back with more interest and second date is a fuck date

23 upvotesConceited-Monkey2 years ago

She was upset you passed on being a beta orbiter. Lots of women claim they are just on tinder to make friends. This sounds better than to say they are prowling for new dick.

3 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Read my response lower down. She was Russian and in town for 2 months.

Based on her total lack of awareness of the city and rules of the road, and many other clues, I believe she was being honest.

I told her Tinder was for dating and she was surprised, said she would delete the app. Best I can tell, she did (or unmatched me, but I doubt it, I have her WhatsApp and didn't block me on there).

I think she really thought it was a "friends app" -- either way she had zero interest in me romantically. Meh. That sucks, but ... it's asking a bit much that I stay as friends, when it's your mistake, ya know?

23 upvotesFedor_Gavnyukov2 years ago

as a russian myself, I can with 99% certainty tell you she was full of shit

1 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Then what was her plan? Dupe a guy into being her friend?

1 upvotesPM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL2 years ago

Tinder's logo is a flame. The WhatsApp thing doesn't mean a thing.

But her genuineness on this regard is not really relevant either way, it seems.

8 upvoteskankouillotte2 years ago

Damn, I still feel bad about it

see what she did ? she kicked you in the nuts, and made YOU feel like the aggressor.

women.

13 upvotesapex_3132 years ago

I met my girlfriend on tinder and she kept saying she was looking for friends. I asked her on a date and she's like "no, I'm just looking for friends". So I asked her to "hang out" with very clear sarcasm. On the date I kept saying "this is a fun date... Er, hang out" I just messed with her because we both knew she was full of shit. She later admitted to me that she wasn't just looking for friends even though she thought she was at the time. Women will be women. Just roll with it and tease them a little. None of them are actually on a dating app to make friends even if they say so.

3 upvotesjoh21412 years ago

This is exactly it with what the OP said. Look at you feeling guilty for being tricked. But it is ok for her to use you for safe fun. Just say no. If she's crying then she shouldn't have gone on Tinder. People go on there specifically to hook up

3 upvotesgoodguy9982 years ago

You are not physically attractive.

For females, attractive males and unattractive males are two separate genders. You are not seen as a man in her eyes and that is why she was surprised you tried to go for romance.

When women say men are not entitled to sex they mean, unattractive men are not entitled to sex, while attractive men must have all the sex with every women possible and he is forgiven even if he has a girlfriend or wife or 10 girlfriends.

This is why men get confused, because they do not understand this basic fact. unattractive men are not men in women eyes and they are not entitled to anything. She is surprised they even try. They act shocked when an unattractive men attempts to get sex or romance because in her mind he is in a different category. In the friend/slave category. The man who I will cry to, the man who will treat me nice, the man who will help me with money and other things. If this man gets a girlfriend how will he be my slave? Surely he does not want a girlfriend because he is not a man after all.

1 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Meh, not physically attractive to her, perhaps. I'm not a model, but I fuck plenty of women that look good. Maybe it's in spite of my appearance (lol) but they do. I'd consider myself a 7 on the pure looks scale, but eh.

This was the first date where this has happened. Weekend before last I was fingering girls on the dance floor while getting stroked off in the club.

Again, I'm not a male renowned for his looks, but I think you are a little too "black and white" in your thinking.

2 upvotesBuchloe2 years ago

I have an ex gf that likes to call me from time to time. Conversations are usually fun, but I tend to drop in the occasional joking innuendo, which she loves. She recently got a boyfriend, and said the innuendos need to stop, but she'd like to keep talking to me. I told her I don't see myself doing that. I don't talk to girls with boyfriends. She knows I'm about that harem life and appreciated the honesty. C ya

1 upvotesReturnofthemack32 years ago

she sounds like an insane person. Sorry but if you're on tindr, it's not about making friends.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

She was on Tinder and went on two dates without making her intentions clear. She didn't want a friend, she wanted an orbiter

1 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

true dat.

I've already been told a hundred times, but I'm going on $10 max dates now. Already had one this past Monday. And < hour first date, push for sex on the second.

I already knew these rules but became lax with them. Probably overkill since most of my dates are 'normal' people but eh.

1 upvotesMr_Talent2 years ago

Most important rule of Tinder for me. Always sexualise the conversation from the very beginning. Then by the time you meet she knows you are not there to be friends.

122 upvotesnewName5434562 years ago

Remember. Chad isn't entitled to those sex acts either. Doesn't stop him from having them though. Know why and emulate.

7 upvotesnattyX2 years ago

This comment needs more attention.

51 upvotesbrettfromtibet2 years ago

Last Saturday I picked up a fairly attractive but very clingy woman. I felt like I was in a "serious relationship" from the way she was texting me for confirmation, validation and plans before I even set up the first date. It felt smothering and yucky. I ghosted. I don't owe her nothing.

32 upvotesheartbroken_nerd2 years ago

See for me it would almost be perfectly fine, what you just described, if the same kind of girl who is clingy would put out.

But they rarely do. At the end of the day they're simply trying to manipulate you into being their time ho (all hail Patrice O'Neal) without giving anything in return.

I wouldn't MIND having an LTR with one of countless HB I met over last few weeks but the ones who act like they want an LTR do not put out, they weaponize sex/physical affection and I simply ghost them immediately.

14 upvoteslandon0422 years ago

time ho yes

their either sucking your time or your dick

4 upvotesHltchens2 years ago

Found a thirsty girl on tinder with CF. She kept saying she was dying. Talked about how she wanted kids. Said she wanted me to make her a Navy wife. Im just prepping myself for my time in the navy meeting women who want to trap me with a kid. Fuck all that. I'll only be hooking up with college bound intelligent women from my enlistment out.

The only thing that keeps a woman from wanting to trap you is her own ambition to pursue her future. The best women to date are college grads, in grad school or working very hard in their field. One: decreases the likelihood drastically for a baby trap. Two: if she's reliant on herself she can't take half your money. In fact if she makes more than you you'll get money. This ensures commitment if the time does come. Divorced men get ruined by supported women. Not women who have a good job and degree.

21 upvotesNotUpToAnythingGood2 years ago

Yep. I've got a plate who had become a time sink. She's dialed back the sex she was giving but expected me to continue giving her everything I was.

I gave her a few opportunities to change her ways. She declined to do so. I pointedly noted to her that it's a two-way street and as such, was renegotiating my part of the deal as it was no longer balanced & fair.

She's not happy with it because I rarely talk to her now, don't give her expert advice, or guidance any more. Quickly became apologetic after I went radio silent. She still hasn't fixed the situation on her end but she said she would. Acta non verba... I'll believe it when I see it from her.

TLDR: Being my plate/FWB comes with some nice perks. She didn't want to uphold her end of the bargain so they got taken away. She was informed of what needed to happen if she wants them back.

5 upvotesJackGetsIt2 years ago

Well played. She might still walk or continue to not put out but this is about the best way you can handle this.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Awesome that you pointed out the guidance bit; I think it's something a lot of guys feel compelled to do and enjoy doing, but isn't really discussed here much. I think I actually enjoy that part as much - if not more than - sex. Something about it being constructive... plus it's a huge point of value to bargain with. What kind of "advice" or "guidance" do you usually find yourself giving, and how do you implement it?

2 upvotesNotUpToAnythingGood2 years ago

I am usually 10+ years older than my plates. As such, I have life experiences they haven't had yet or at least more experience with life's curve balls.

One of the things I offer is the benefit of having learned lessons the hard way. So if there is something I can help with, I offer it, if asked (advice unasked for is rarely appreciated).

In this particular case, my plate is going to school in a field not dissimilar to my own. So I am versed in several subjects she's taking. This is a sore point for her as she's not getting my knowledge and assistance with her classes.

Actions have consequences as she is learning. Whether or not she accepts the lesson is entirely up to her.

1 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

Unless you've got no other plates, I'd recommend hard nexting her. You've obviously lost respect in her eyes and regaining that respect is an uphill and unrewarding struggle. Best start afresh with the lessons you've learned.

3 upvotesWordlessjaguar032 years ago

I'm in agreement with you. When you have to negotiate for sex somethings broken and you fucked up. Sex isn't I give you x for y, but she should want to fuck you just because.

1 upvotesNotUpToAnythingGood2 years ago

She has said she wants to have sexy fun times with me but that she's too busy with school and family to do so right now. Thing is, acta non verba.

What she is saying could be true but her actions thus far tell a different story.

I also have no problems with cutting her loose entirely. The ball is entirely in her court. It's up to her to change the outcome. If she wants access to my resources/time, she needs to get in line with expectations.

68 upvotesSir_Distic2 years ago

Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Men are the gatekeepers of commitment.

25 upvotesOmnibrad2 years ago

I don't like this analogy.

You have to pass her gatekeeper every time but she only passes your gate once. She stays inside a while, then leaves the back door, where a court room is the gatekeeper.

Keep in mind, women initiate the vast majority of divorces so they are the first ones to want out of commitment too. Men never want out of sex.

40 upvotesFedor_Gavnyukov2 years ago

Men never want out of sex.

I beg to differ on this point

23 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I beg to differ

Your beg is granted, now differ.

8 upvotesHltchens2 years ago

I'll second it. I've been with many girls who didn't have anything come out of her mouth decent that wasn't attached to me. Makes for a boring time.

8 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

[removed]

8 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

"Men are the gatekeepers of commitment" describes the sexual reality of our species. Barring coercion, women decide when to grant reproductive access, men decide when to grant resources. This duality trickles down in our behaviors, innate and cultural customs.

I said "barring coercion", you brought up one such case: marriage and, in divorce, alimony and child support. That is a socially-based system to coerce continued male commitment. This tells you that the system exists for the advantage of female sexual strategy, as it allows to extract commitment without having to grant reproductive access.

Don't forget the state. Indeed, I'd say the state has taken that choice from men, while leaving them with the burden.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I mean I do cite divorce right after :D and we could definitely talk about how a lot of taxation and redistribution amounts to precisely a forced resource transfer from men to women, but I wouldn't want to distract too much from the topic of this thread.

2 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

I mean I do cite divorce right after

Whoops, can't believe I missed that; I guess I got a lot of things on my mind, haha. You're absolutely right.

5 upvotesDocbear642 years ago

Realistically though your gate should take a hell of a lot longer for her to enter into than you into hers. Why would you commit to a woman anything less than 3 months after meeting at the minimum ? Make her work for a relationship , if she really wants you she'll do it and if not then there are better women out there.

This is still a world away from the issue being that if she feels so comfortable in the relationship that she feels like you'll be there no matter what you've fucked up . She loves you when having you feels like a privilege or special . If you give her so much comfort that having you around is as special as taking a single breath then again you've fucked up somewhere.

4 upvotesBuchloe2 years ago

She got a wide gait, you got a long narrow one

18 upvotesPeter_B_Long2 years ago

Yes, you should continue to improve and enhance your life daily so that you become someone that girls want to have sex with, but you do not need to change yourself into a 'person' that your partner will 'want' to have sex with.

You should simultaneously be improving yourself every day and also understanding that if you are not getting what you want out of the relationship, you can always leave and find another one who will give you what you want.

It's stupid and beta to say that you should change yourself for someone. You shouldn't change yourself for anyone. If you have an LTR and she stops having sex with you and stops giving you all the things she used to give you, you should leave her and find someone who will (assuming you keep improving yourself).

If you are in an LTR and your SMV goes down during the relationship and she stops being attracted to you and you aren't happy, you should still leave, but also accept the responsibility that it is your fault for not improving yourself and becoming less attractive.

Do not settle for mediocrity, especially when you are lifting, meditating, improving every day.

11 upvotesJackGetsIt2 years ago

[deleted]

11 upvotesJackGetsIt2 years ago

Almost word for word this has happened twice to me on dating apps the last couple of weeks. Both girls were surprised when I didn't submit to anymore slow play shenanigans.

I've never seen one case in all my years of dating where a girl that was into me couldn't find a way to meet up with me in a day or two. If she has a commitment she will immediately suggest something very soon or give alternatives (come over right after or I will come to you later!). And almost universally women that keep delaying you just aren't that into you and are fishing for some type of orbiter offer. They've just decided that you're not high enough value but still want to extract from you. There's almost no rhyme or reason a lot of times either. I've had really ugly girls slow play the shit out of me and really hot girls just beg for it. So it's just best to drop em and move on if they aren't selling...

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

[deleted]

9 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

My situation is that I am getting all the sex I want, however the amount of attention and affection my GF demands is more than I am usually willing to give. She has some serious abandonment issues and demands constant hugging, kissing, and attention.

In the end, the relationship isn't satisfying for me if I feel the amount of attention I am giving is not worth the sex I am getting. The relationship isn't reciprocal if I feel there is not a balance between each other's needs. I have felt for a while that I should end it.

On the other hand, I can't help that feel like I might be throwing away the best thing of my life. I've never had a woman who worships me to this extent. She cooks and cleans too...

10 upvoteswhatsthisgarg2 years ago

I've got good news and bad news for you, my man. And they're both the same thing: you'll regret it either way.

I had some different shit than you early on with my woman, but it was basically time and energy demands. I might be getting into an art project or something and she would come in and completely fuck up my attention and focus. Repeatedly. I'd tell her it was fucked, but it was too late, every time. I would tell her to just find something to do on her own, but she couldn't. And there went my creative energy for the day.

I look back and try to find a good time to have ended it. There was none. And then it was too late.

But, on the other hand, if it weren't for her, I'd probably be dead by now, or worse. So on balance, I'm going to go with it's been a good thing. Especially now that I've read all these horror stories from losers here on TRP.

Before I close this, I'm looking up at your comment, and two things struck me: 1, you're able to articulate these feelings NOW, so maybe this is not as good as it should be, and WILL ONLY GET WORSE, NOT BETTER, and 2, she has serious abandonment issues which is a HUGE red flag. I was going to suggest just spending more time away from her (which was my solution), but if you do that, she may very well find somebody else to hug and kiss and whatever else.

Good luck.

2 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

Thanks for your advice. Your situation with your ex resonates with me. I'm also oftentimes trying to get some work done at home, or lately I have been trying to do some video editing to make some quality youtube videos, but she demands attention and quickly starts to feel sad and lonely while I am doing things which don't include her.

I was going to suggest just spending more time away from her (which was my solution), but if you do that, she may very well find somebody else to hug and kiss and whatever else.

I would actually be sort of happy if she did that. That would make the decision to break up so much easier. It would also be nice to know she has someone else to give her attention when I'm gone. Right now she's so attached to me I'd be worried that if I broke up she would go kill herself, or at least be a total wreck for quite a while afterward.

5 upvoteswhatsthisgarg2 years ago

Your situation with your ex resonates with me.

Not my ex, my current wife of more than 20 years! Like I said, there was never a good time to end it! While I'm on the subject of it being mostly good, I will say we have 3 beautiful children, and I actually have the inverse situation that I described earlier: we can have the intense sex we always had, but now without the time investment before and after, so that I can actually go off and do my own creative thing now. So think about that; it is possible.

I have been trying to do some video editing to make some quality youtube videos, but she demands attention and quickly starts to feel sad and lonely while I am doing things which don't include her.

That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. Goddamn, what a drain.

It would also be nice to know she has someone else to give her attention when I'm gone.

She will; if you've read enough TRP, you know she will.

Right now she's so attached to me I'd be worried that if I broke up she would go kill herself, or at least be a total wreck for quite a while afterward.

Probably not. I had maybe seven women be so attached to me that I had that same thought; they were all fine. Two stalked me later, a minor inconvenience.

Let me leave you with this, kind of advice to my younger self: be more of an asshole, be more dismissive, be less tolerant of whatever you consider bad behavior. See what it gets you. I think you're already on the same path.

I'm thinking of several times when I said to her fuck off or blow it out your ass and walked out, and retrospectively had good results.

3 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

Not my ex, my current wife of more than 20 years!

LOL. Whoops. Well, excuse me there. There really wasn't any good time to end it was there? I really feel that I wouldn't be happy married to my GF with kids though. I can't imagine myself happy that way.

Probably not. I had maybe seven women be so attached to me that I had that same thought; they were all fine. Two stalked me later, a minor inconvenience.

It's good to hear that. No matter how much "RP theory" one reads, there's always that nagging voice in your head that says "That's just a bunch of stuff people wrote on the Internet. How do you know she's not different?"

be more of an asshole, be more dismissive, be less tolerant of whatever you consider bad behavior.

Since I've been reading TRP for longer than I've been dating her, of course I have done this. In fact, this is closer to what I was doing early in the relationship. Predictably, that sort of behavior just makes her more addicted to me and my attention.

So, I have also tried to "beta myself out of the relationship". Act needy and nerdy. Unfortunately, this is pretty hard to do. Initially she seems to like it. I have never been able to follow through with it long enough before I get tired of doing it and start accidentally being an asshole again when I feel like it.

I suppose the fact that I am even trying to beta myself out of the relationship in the first place shows that I want out. So, you're right. There really is no way out other than to just break things off the hard way. It's never going to be a good time to end it (I can't quite hate her enough) and I will regret it either way. When I think about it logically, I believe that I would probably regret breaking up with her less than I will regret not breaking up someday when I'm married to her.

3 upvoteswhatsthisgarg2 years ago

trying to beta myself out of the relationship

I'm truly convinced that this works, but I don't think I could bring myself to do it -- too much pride!

But if you are serious about it:

  • open up, tell her your biggest fears.

  • get depressed and mopey.

  • get sick and beg her to take care of you (won't always work, some women like to do this).

  • exaggerate some minor pain, like a mosquito bite or a splinter.

  • cry about some childhood memory.

  • fart and burp and be a slob, then act helpless to clean yourself up, ask for her help.

and LOL.

Break it off, you've convinced me. You can still have sex with her after, I know I always did!

1 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

You gotta decide if it's worth it. She's asking you to go out of your comfort zone. Is she providing enough for you to do so? As we discussed earlier, no one owes anyone anything, but if she finds someone attractive who's willing to do what you're not, then I wouldn't be surprised if she picked the person that is willing to satisfy more of her needs, tbh.

2 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

but if she finds someone attractive who's willing to do what you're not, then I wouldn't be surprised if she picked the person that is willing to satisfy more of her needs, tbh.

Like I told the other commenter, I actually wish exactly that would happen. If she cheated, my decision would be so much easier. But, nope, she has been super-dedicated to me so far, no matter how little I do for her. Most women actually love men who are not very invested in the relationship. There is another top post right now on exactly that.

30 upvotessurfingjesus2 years ago

The double standard is real. The average woman today almost has a free pass at being a lazy fuckup. My favorite is how overweight women are now 'thick' and that is pretty much acceptable, and if you don't buy it, well you are gay or not a real man.

If you have an issue with stretch marks or period blood on her clothes, you are a misogynist with unrealistic expectations of what real women look like. Everything you do that challenges their self perception comes down to you not being a real enough man. And if that doesn't sound ridiculous enough, the majority of men will even defend this view.

17 upvotesHltchens2 years ago

Haha. I told a fat girl I met that she could be a solid ten if she worked out. She says "are you calling me fat? I can't believe you etc." I said no I'm just telling your potential. Gave excuses about diet and exercise not ever working (bullshit) and how if I was more attractive she wouldn't mind being told this. I consider myself a solid 8 at my best. For sure a 10 if I was shredded. Anyway, icing on the cake was "sorry I'm more curvy than anorexic girls."

Yeah. Curvy. Is that what we call a 42" waist these days? Butch was hiding a spare tire under her shirt.

9 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I love when convos with woman take a real turn and I get to tell them to hit the gym and lay off the fizzy drinks.

3 upvotesReturnofthemack32 years ago

women can be so fucking dumb. She should be happy that she could be a 10 with a bit of weight loss, but nope, she just doubles down. I mean shit, some people are just fucking ugly, weight or not, and they have no option to just trim 60 excess lbs, a feat that really isn't all that difficult in the grand scheme of things.

9 upvotesTheRedStoic2 years ago

Yup.

The only entitlement you have is to a transparently agreed upon contract. That's it.

Works both ways men, if you're not getting what you want, walk. Simply walk. There are others who will fight to give you what you want instead.

14 upvotesZ33ger2 years ago

This is why men are starting to act like lady boys because they subconsciously realize that they can realize some kind of entitlement, hence safe spaces they are not form women specifically but for effeminate humans another reason why "gender" and "sex" are distinguished nowadays

The irony is that men who act like women don't actually receive the same treatment as women even though they can occupy safe spaces and receive "emotional support" it doesn't do shit to improve their quality of life because they fundamentally can't be dependent on others as adult men unless they're mentally retarded

4 upvotesPhilletto2 years ago

Yes, this is why boys want to be girls. The whole fluid gender thing is because boys are taught that men are evil bastards.

4 upvotesHltchens2 years ago

I agree that there is a level of brainwashing afoot with this trans "movement". Considering they make up only .6% of the population.

3 upvotesZ33ger2 years ago

They are taught men are evil bastards and women are moral archetypes

2 upvotesFE4R3D2 years ago

Amen. So many people are fucking crazy these days. Thing is by the election results we know that it's almost equal. It's just all the unintelligent losers protesting and screaming when they know nothing about the subject and the influence of the media which gets rich off all this.

3 upvotesJackGetsIt2 years ago

This is why men in general are pretty miserable and blue pill men especially so. They know the game is rigged but don't have the means, drive or tools to oppose it.

Personally I'm starting to think more and more that you just have to sit back and watch. Eventually women will abandon feminism and seek out independent men with financial resources and skills as society starts to crumble. Or maybe they will double down and just buy another cat. Either way I will be enjoying the decline with my plates and hobbies.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I don't think men are miserable because they know the game is rigged. I think the miserable ones are the ones who haven't accepted the game, haven't accepted the duality, so they only pout about the disadvantages they have and see the advantages as just a manifestation of a pessimistic system. Obviously blue pills are going to be a lot more confused and vulnerable to it. Gotta be realistic and understand amused mastery if you wanna be a man, which is basically what you said with relaxing and enjoying the show. There's still tools at your disposal, just know when to use them and enjoy yourself for the rest.

5 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

When you spell it out so plainly it becomes very clear why marriage has become such a joke. You're supposed to promise that you'll do these things for each other even if you don't really want to.

A problem arises when one side is allowed to break the contract without repercussions. You're a horrible man if you expect her to have sex with you on demand. And you're also a horrible man if you withhold affection the same way she withholds sex.

6 upvotesMattyAnon2 years ago

The University of Michigan defined withholding sex as violently abusive. Reported widely including:

https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/19448/

They've since toned it down and removed a lot of it the content after the media outcry. But it's a good example of how far the SJWs / feminists / colleges will try to go to get men defined as abusers.

I wonder how many women they prosecuted for the violent abuse of withholding sex before they reworded it.

6 upvotesexit_sandman2 years ago

Society has no problem drilling the first four points into the male psyche from the age of adolescence (or even younger, given feminism's pernicious advance into education). However, try to apply this to women and you will be labeled a misogynist, a neckbeard and a bitter loser.

Don't forget how it's usually presented: wanting sex is questionable, repulsive, cavemannish, objectifying. Wanting affection and emotional intimacy is romantic, sincere and valuing.

Guess which gender wants the one and which wants the other?

And this doesn't even take into account that men who crave emotional intimacy are oftentimes seen as whiny and clingy, while women who crave sex are presented as neglected and get pity for their partner who "can't do his job".

5 upvotesAlchemist_XP2 years ago

Seriously what man honestly thinks they are entitled to these things? Women are fucking insane for assuming that's how we operate. It's just women who enjoy using men to make them do things for them, even though it's obvious a man is trying to become more than friends, then if you make her move and they don't want any of t, they throw that shit in your face. It's like, bitch if you don't want to be more than friends then make it known, don't play games and use me. Do you think I like wasting time and money on someone who has no interest in me? Fucking dumbasses

2 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

[deleted]

2 upvotesSky_cutter2 years ago

Not sure what you're saying - that's more of a legal issue.

Technically, some provisions of contracts that are "blatantly one-sided" can be thrown out by a judge.

Such as slipping in "by the way you owe me $10 mil" in a EULA agreement.

Technically United's legal bullshit applied to preventing someone from boarding, not removing someone who already was boarded.

Obviously they have the authority to remove any passenger from their airplane (usually if they are hostile or a danger) - but it's not completely legally protected from consequences afterwards. Like, if they removed someone for being Muslim or being black, they would be easily sued afterwards under state and federal anti-discrimination laws.

There are definitely things though that after you pay for, you certainly are legally entitled too. That's a lot more black and white than "interpersonal relationships" though. You don't owe the vast majority of people jack shit in that realm.

1 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

This also applies to airplane seats that you have lawfully purchased.

Can you explain what you mean by this? Overbooking?

3 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

[deleted]

3 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

Ah yes, I can't believe I missed that video. Fucking infuriating.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

[deleted]

3 upvotesilikemychickenfried2 years ago

Thank you so much for this

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

[deleted]

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

If the relationship has deteriorated to the point that you feel the need to ghost, then yeah it should probably end. Then it's up to her to decide if she wants to change and pursue again. I get what you're saying, but morality is subjective and up to the individual to decide. Point here is to make sure that your feelings of obligation are legitimate, not just culturally reinforced or out of insecurity.

10 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

So are you saying that "ghosting" after having 2 year relationship is justified because nobody owes each other anything...?

It is not justified, but the point is it does not need to be.

2 upvotesPatsFever2 years ago

What if I ghost my wife of 15 years because I'm bored one day, same scenario? At some point you're a coward.

10 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

What if I ghost my wife of 15 years because I'm bored one day, same scenario?

That is your business, I'm not one to judge. Women do this to men all the time, I'd say it's no big deal if men follow their lead.

2 upvotesPatsFever2 years ago

Great point, it is a womanly move and a pretty cowardly way for a man to approach life, agree to disagree.

7 upvotesredditer02 years ago

What if I ghost my wife of 15 years because I'm bored one day

If she's able to do that, you should be able to do that. We are not arguing if that's moral or a good idea. That depends on you.

1 upvotesFE4R3D2 years ago

I get where you're coming from but I think his point is that if you're wife is able to ghost you then you should be able to ghost her. He's going for equality and that men shouldn't be betas. I would think you and your wife care about each other after 15 years so bringing it up is a little odd. Unless there are problems in the relationship then you really just misunderstood. It's no big deal

3 upvotesMerwebb2 years ago

She would owe you sex just because 2 years?

1 upvotesanotherent2 years ago

so much truth to this- please keep posting.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Playing God's advocate here: aren't all the things you listed as being advocated for "her" more or less being advocated to all people, including men? It's just that men want those things less

2 upvotesAFuckYou2 years ago

That's not how this works for me. I'm entitled. I don't play these stupid games.

Don't give me what I want, find someone else.

6 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

Don't give me what I want, find someone else.

This is not in disagreement with my post.

2 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

Sounds like, "If we don't have sex, I'm giving you the cold shoulder." That'd be fucked up if this were the case in a relationship. Would you give a friend the cold sholder for not doing something you ask, for example moving into your new apartment? That shit would build resentment--if you're only my friend when I do stuff for you.

13 upvotesOntop12 years ago

Relationships are reciprocal. I don't ask for anything I'm not giving or going to give. If what I give isn't being reciprocated I'm not in a relationship.

7 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

If that's what you want in a relationship, then that's fine for you. The majority of men get into a relationship with the expectation that there will be sex. If a man is not getting what he wants out of a relationship, then he is wasting his time and commitment in a relationship which is not satisfying him.

Our BP conditioning is telling us things like "You should wait to have sex." "Be a good friend first." "Sex will happen when you are both ready." These are precisely the messages which are causing men to "Do the right thing" (/s) and put a bunch of effort into a relationship that isn't going to give them what they want. Men as a whole need to begin demanding what they really want and not accepting any less. This is what TRP is all about.

0 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

I agree, if the relationship doesn't provide what you're looking for, get out. However, it's biased to assume this only happens to men. There are plenty of women with high libidos who are in a sexless relationship. It has more to do with finding someone with a similar sex drive and who doesn't withdraw sex as a "punishment" because that's childish just like withdrawing affection as a "punishment" is childish.

6 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

None of what you said is wrong, but I think it is still missing the most important point that I and I think OP want to emphasize here: That these things wouldn't happen to men if they would just stop settling for less than what they want.

If you're with a person who withdraws sex as punishment, then of course they are a shitty person, but if you choose to play along with that person's game then you are to blame as well. Men need to believe that they can do better, and be willing to leave when a woman is playing games that they do not want to play.

2 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

Understandable. These games are dumb. However, we don't know the exact circumstances for the original post. If someone (the woman) rejects sexual advances for some personal reason (such as being on her period) the OP is essentially arguing he can withdraw affection as a punishment because he owes her nothing. When it comes to casual sexual relationship, of course, I agree she shouldn't expect anything in return other than the simple sexual exchange, but it's a different situation completely when the two people are in a relationship.

3 upvotestallwheel2 years ago

If someone (the woman) rejects sexual advances for some personal reason (such as being on her period) the OP is essentially arguing he can withdraw affection as a punishment because he owes her nothing.

Sure he can withdraw affection. He owes her nothing. Doesn't matter the reason. The bottom line for you is whether you are satisfied or not. If you are constantly adjusting your expectations in order to accommodate her needs - regardless of whether these needs are legitimate or reasonable or not - you're not going to be happy.

Let's take the being on her period example. First of all, being on one's period is kind of a shitty reason to not have sex anyway. Lots of people in relationships have sex on their periods, as long as both partners are comfortable with it.

So anyway for the sake of argument, let's say she is not. She hates having sex when she's on her period but the guy doesn't mind and wants to have sex anyway. Regardless of how legitimate her need to avoid sex while on her period is, one person in the relationship is not having his desires met. So, if this is a big issue for him, maybe he really should consider looking elsewhere for a woman who does not mind having sex on her period.

This is what society seems to discourage men from doing, and what I think OP was trying to get at.

2 upvotestheoctopuss2 years ago

You're not supposed to be her "friend". Bad comparison.

1 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

That depends on how you view relationships. If I'm in a relationship I definitely want to be able to tell my SO everything, laugh with them, have fun together, etc. like friends would, but that's me personally.

2 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

Would you give a friend the cold sholder for not doing something you ask

Your girl is not your friend. If she is, you're doing something really wrong.

-2 upvotesjoc3462 years ago

Did you read one of my earlier comments? I personally prefer relationships where me and my SO can be friends. If your girl doesn't see you as a confidante, someone she can vent to, have fun with, is attracted to and can have sex with, you're doing something wrong, fyi.

2 upvotesadam_varg2 years ago

confidante, someone she can vent to, have fun with, is attracted to and can have sex with

And how doing any of this demands friendship?

1 upvotesBassNet2 years ago

you need to change yourself into a person your partner (or partners) will want to engage in X with

I disagree. You should not change yourself for your partner. You should change yourself because you aspire to be better, but not for your partner.

1 upvotesFairlyNaive2 years ago

If you feel you're not getting X, the problem lies with you, and you need to change yourself into a person your partner (or partners) will want to engage in X with.

Or change a partner. Havent failed me once.

1 upvotestrpposter [OP]2 years ago

Or change a partner. Havent failed me once.

That works, but if you don't solve the underlying issues that caused your ex to lose attraction, your story will repeat itself.

3 upvotesFairlyNaive2 years ago

While I generally agree, in a decent number of cases the underlying issue is that she is just fucked in the head.

1 upvotes8n0n2 years ago

Good post.

I think it helps to flesh out Covert Contracts (No More Mr. Nice Guy), when viewed from the party receiving demands from another party on a contract they did not knowingly sign (a girl demanding commitment from a man because they had sex, well the older girls that try to lock you down into a relationship).

Crush your inner beta by always keeping in mind: you owe her nothing. Never cave, never apologize and above all, never justify.

I prefer a more shamelessly selfish approach: what's in it for me?

Where me fails to make a decision, I then appeal to myself and I to ensure the total of votes (me, myself and I 'the three amigos') outnumbers the other party.

The three amigos are not parties with distinctive voices (there votes outnumber one, but one occupant is enough up there thanks) but a mental trick to assure myself that decisions I made are in my own best interests, and not blindly followed from an appearance of mutually shared interest, ego or irrationally from emotion (the 'where is this going' pillow talk after sex).

Read this post at own risk and presume this has been modified by Reddit Inc

1 upvotesVestlerz2 years ago

That was straight fire, nice piece man

1 upvotesStrider_Tolstoi2 years ago

"you are not entitled to this or that".

Hmm, I kind of disagree this kind of mindset, it's just sounds too defeatist and many people will understand it that way, they will take it as a self-hating motto, like saying: "hey man, you aren't worth a shit, don't even keep trying".

Maybe I'm wrong or misunderstanding the point but that's how many people think and I quite dislike that, the things that I've achieved in my life (either big or petty) were done with what I think it is the exact opposite of the "unworthy" mindset. As far as I know I'm the most badass motherfucker in the world, If I think I'm entitled to something, for fuck's sake I will achieve it.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

[deleted]

1 upvotescuntycuntcunts2 years ago

WTF?!?! I DEMAND an ANAL BLEACHING PLACE IN EVERY TOWN AND EVERY CITY!

1 upvotesFoochoski2 years ago

Excellent post, always refreshing to see a solid post on trp that isn't sexist but stands for true equality

-2 upvotessunole1232 years ago

I believe you are entitled to explanation. you are entitle of respect the other person's feeling. you are entitled to understand and be understood, and to walk away when looking at something in different way.

-5 upvotesMacheako2 years ago

Beautiful!!!!!! but one teeny tiny thing if I may: but you should always have a justification, but yea, they're NOT entitled to hear it, to know it, to see it, any a dat shit!





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