335,488 posts

Girls see guys on a scale of 0 - 1

by on /r/TheRedPill
17 April 2017 06:49 PM UTC

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If you are a zero to them it means they simply don't find you attractive. They won't care if you have a BMW, have 100k in the bank account, like traveling, or anything that makes you who you are beyond that superficial physical attraction. You simply will not even get a chance to demonstrate value. If you ask them for their number and text them they won't text back, they will flake on your plans and not reschedule, and mostly completely uninvested emotionally. Similar to a person without a degree not getting a chance at an interview.

If you are a 1 to them they will love your hobbies, make time for you, be excited and giggle with you, probably have sex with you pretty easily. The difference in how you get treated is night and day.

It doesnt matter if she looks like shrek or she looks like arianny celeste, if she doesnt find you attractive she won't settle, she will move the fuck on.

I'm still struggling with depression and anger after working my whole life to be semi successful monetary wise and its been killing me inside women will never like me for who i am until i become physically attractive. However, i understand and am trying my hardest to change. Ive given up fast food and candy and been cooking vegetables, brown rice, and lean meat for a week. Currently at 190lbs 20% BF at 5'9" and my first goal is to be at 179 with 15% BF within 90 days.

Thanks for reading.

Post Information
Title Girls see guys on a scale of 0 - 1
Upvotes 714
Comments 280
Date 17 April 2017 06:49 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/42657
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/65xi9n/girls_see_guys_on_a_scale_of_0_1/
Similar Posts


982 upvotesnewName5434562 years ago

IMO it's more of a ternary -1, 0, 1 scale

1 is lover

0 is provider

-1 is invisible/creep

323 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I can be on board with this

180 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

What he said. If anything, guys are the ones with a binary view of women:

0 - Would not fuck

1 - Would fuck

391 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

1 - Would fuck.

0 - Would fuck but wouldn't tell anyone.

-1 - Would not fuck.

43 upvotesaewiggin2 years ago

Yep, but my 0 is "would fuck if I were really drunk"

63 upvotesalreadypiecrust2 years ago

1 - Would fuck.

0 - Would fuck but wouldn't tell anyone.

-1 - Would fuck with a bag over her head.

13 upvotesForcetobereckonedwit2 years ago

1 - Would fuck

0 - Would fuck if she hit on me hard

-1 - Probably already fucked

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

username checks out, with a reference to american pie

1 upvoteschecks_out_bot2 years ago

It's funny because alreadypiecrust's username is very applicable to their comment.
beep bop if you hate me, reply with "stop". If you just got smart, reply with "start".

-40 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

I don't need other people's approval of who I fuck.

118 upvotesmax_peenor2 years ago

Correct, but it can affect your SMV. Being a Captain of a whaling fleet will eventually limit your options.

56 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

WHALING FLEET HAHAHAHA. Sorry, but that was an awesome analogy.

9 upvotesmarplaneit2 years ago

10/10 joke. I'm going to steal it.

upvotesRoninUnderground2 years ago

Yes, but why man the harpoons when a hand won't crush your pelvis.

13 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Lol, I fucked a 60+ year old one drunken night when I was about 28-29. She was actually really good but I'm not going to tell anyone I know.

8 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

The point is, you shouldn't need to brag to anyone about who you fuck. You shouldn't give a shit about anyone else's approval. Fuck them. You do what you want. That is the point. Abundance mentality/IDGAF attitude is for more than just women. It's for social validation, also.

"You fucked that old fatty?!"

"Yep. It was fun, I was bored."

6 upvotesMckallidon2 years ago

Everyone is downvoting on Chad all of a sudden. Fucking Cucks.

I think this guy is on to something. Think about it. Ultimate shit test passed. Have 8-9 know you railed 2-3. She backhandedly inserts her curiosity up in that shit. Maybe asks questions. Give complete BS response like either I didn't do that. Or, yolo. Maybe say you lost a bet or was doing her the favor. Just DO NOT be phased. Give zero fucks.

She mostly doesn't care you fucked her, she cares how you feel about fucking that garbage. Do you know it's garbage? Really? Let's see. If she gets the vibe that you pump and dumped that trash, you know that all women below her are trash. She is better though. You won't do that to her, her cognitive dissonance whispers. You're not that trash. Lol.

5 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

en. Fucking Cucks. I think this guy is on to something. Think about

The comment before me was "but wouldn't tell anyone"

The point I was making is why do I tell anyone who I fuck? I don't give a shit who knows who I am fucking. I fuck for me, not to impress people. Even if I fuck a 10/10, trying to show that off is just begging for validation from other people. Fuck that.

The whole people of an IDGAF attitude is to... NOT GIVE A FUCK.

And that 8-9 who is wondering... lol.

Her: "Why would you fuck that 2?"

You: "Because she sucks dick better than you do."

Let her hamster that shit away.

28 upvotesEarthExile2 years ago

I don't know, I know a few "Would Fuck Except For Potential Lunacy" types

3 upvotesMckallidon2 years ago

Fuck them at a friend's house. She'll naturallybpass herself along when you're done.

15 upvotesOne_friendship_plz2 years ago

No, not true. Most of the women we would fuck are not one we would consider for a relationship let alone marriage.

23 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

Relationship? Marriage? Lawl.

3 upvotesStrum_Gewehr2 years ago

1 - Would fuck and keep.

  0- Would fuck and chuck

  -1 - Would not fuck

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

It's true, but the difference is that the number of 1's an average man has is much more substantial than the number of 1's an average woman will have. The average woman finds only maybe 1 in 5 men even slightly attractive. A 7 to her is merely average.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Wut? Guys aren't as shallow as this.

upvotesskot52372 years ago

1: fucking him is its own reward

0: fucking him is transactional

-1: isn't even considered

27 upvotesjamesd11002 years ago

Eerily perfect synopsis of the motives of all women

4 upvotesDownvoteAndBanMe2 years ago

You guys do understand that some women also care about stuff other than looks. While certainly a major part, some girls just can't stay with hot guys who treat them badly. You can't attribute a single motive to the actions of a complex human being.

I'm sure if you guys work to get in shape and take good care of yourselves while learning how to treat women pleasantly y'all could even get a girl.

3 upvotesgood_guy_submitter2 years ago

Women select for a good genetic partner. That is why looks are particularly important.

However social proof can do wonders. For example John Reilly is one ugly motherfucker but he cleans up shop with top tier women just because of social status. That's not even accounting for wealth.

1 upvotesDownvoteAndBanMe2 years ago

Maybe but especially with permanent partners, nobody likes to hang with people who treat you like shit, especially when they're used to being treated normal and recognize they're not worth time

7 upvotesbadaod2 years ago

of all the above, this is what i can agree with most.

for "1" i would add "... and hope to get provided some time in the future, but ok if not"

I had this thing yesterday with a Chinese woman:

first she wanted me to come back to her after traveling. hoping to build a relationship etc.

when i told her that i never come back she flipped to "1" and we fucked like wild dogs. after that she told me, "the experience was more important for her than missing out on it".

woman see us like business deals. if they can't lease the Lamborghini they opt for the next best thing: the test drive.

Do you agree?

upvotesbearslikeham2 years ago


  • 1: Alpha

  • 0 : Beta

  • -1 : Omega

51 upvotesMrInternetDetective2 years ago

God help the omegas out there....

upvotesThe_Hokage2 years ago

I realize it was a figure of speech, but I hope they help themselves.

12 upvotes4scoopscomeon2 years ago

Could you eli5 Omega's /the hate they're getting ? Did a search but it's not really apparent

48 upvotesDocbear642 years ago

No one hates omegas but it's hard to muster up too much concern for a person THAT far down the rabbit hole . Many of us have been unattractive betas but even betas tend to have some redeeming qualities. Omegas however are so undesirable and disassociated from the rest of us that they aren't even playing the same game .

Ever met a guy who weakly laughs off how no woman pays attention to him and then goes home and does nothing but watch something , play something , eat , and sleep? That's an omega .

I know a few and they are generally stubborn , spiteful , miserable, and yet do little to nothing to change it. They do next to nothing to make their lives better and then complain how unfair it is that the world doesn't value them for what they are on the inside . How do you show concern for a person like that ?

22 upvotesOPWills2 years ago

Ever met a guy who weakly laughs off how no woman pays attention to him and then goes home and does nothing but watch something , play something , eat , and sleep? That's an omega .

Actually this strikes me as beta behavior, not omega behavior. The beta lives in a shit cookie-cutter apt, eats lean cuisine, watches Netflix mostly for fun and has no opinions of his own. This is not omega behavior, loosely defined.

Knee-jerk contempt for slightly eccentric, atypical men with strong identities and interests to themselves strikes me as beta behavior. The tendency to tear down what you don't understand and perceive as a threat.

11 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Another more basic description of the omega: In the wolf pack, the omega is the one everyone (alpha and betas) pick on to relieve stress and aggression. If shit flows downhill, from the alpha, to the betas, then the omega is the one the betas belittle and pick on.
He has no value even as a sympathizer or a follower to the betas. The females treat him with disdain and are often even more savage than the males.

upvotesbcheng812 years ago

That's the thing TRP fails to understand. It needs to stop catering to omegas.

In every species, there is a group of individuals that never reproduce because nobody wants them. They do not lead, they are not productive, and they survive solely by eating the scraps of others. These are the omegas. It's a genetic condition. They can try to break out into betas, by adopting alpha traits to fool a potential suitor but it's usually badly executed and exploited by true alphas and even high-functioning betas. But ultimately, they will fail and die alone.

In our species, they are what we call human waste. As in, stop wasting time helping them because they simply cannot be helped by virtue of how they are born.

9 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

God help the omegas out there....

A friend of mine was an omega. No money, only played with computers. Horrible, horrible face. Teeths almost disfigured, quite fat, I mean the guy was UGLY.

20 years later, he's 35, married with a nice girl (6-7) and have a kid. Not an alpha, but his SMV improved infinitely.

18 upvotesOPWills2 years ago

This disdain for the "omega" male on this forum is surprising. I would think the fawning, weak-willed beta would be the main target of derision. The omega male at least knows his own worth, follows his own path. Dare I say many of the trailblazing, strong-willed, adventurous men of the past were Omegas, not Alphas, in that they didn't care what their peers thought of them. Their actions were not predicated on social approval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, with evidence, but isn't the entire MGTOW phenomenon an essentially "omega" angle on social life?

8 upvotesscissor_me_timbers002 years ago

Trailblazing, strong willed, adventurous men are more Sigmas if they are not Alphas. Omegas have little to no personal power.

9 upvotesIGoYouStayTwoAutumns2 years ago

The omega male at least knows his own worth, follows his own path. Dare I say many of the trailblazing, strong-willed, adventurous men of the past were Omegas, not Alphas, in that they didn't care what their peers thought of them. Their actions were not predicated on social approval.

That's the SIGMA you're talking about.

3 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I'd definitely agree with you on that. Though there are many definitions and perspectives on alpha/beta/omega roles, the omega, to me, is the one who does not have the traits (looks, social skills, wealth) which give him value in the smp. Whether by his own intention or ignorance, he is exempt from male or female social validation. If one has social value in any form, i'd reckon they'd fall into alpha or beta.

1 upvotesSam_SOD_2 years ago

Omegas, in any social primal state, are the submissive scapegoat. They are the ones not allowed to breed, beaten over frustration, dominance is to be taken out on them, last to eat getting only the scraps... Its up to you to define what the human version of this is. Human social interaction is much more complex than the animal world. But the name is taken for a description. So this would be the male that gets taken advantage of. That woman hit on in the bar just to get a free drink then walk away... Edit: autocorrected. Chanced bested to beaten...

3 upvotesmax_peenor2 years ago

As soon as they exit the gene pool, they will stop drowning.

6 upvotesMckallidon2 years ago

The cucks! We need them. We can't afford all of our kids.

1 upvotesfakenate12 years ago

There was once a guy who claimed to be both the alpha and the omega. He was a pretty cool dude.

20 upvotesblackjackANDplates2 years ago


1: Chad

0: Husband

-1: Orbiter

31 upvotesmax_peenor2 years ago

You know, you make a great point in that we have been calling it a "dual sex/mating strategy." Actually, there is entire strategy that involves keeping bad genes out of the pool.

You have to watch how women act to understand how this strategy works. Fucked the cabana boy with all the muscles? You naughty minx, tee hee. Fucked the neckbeard with questionable hygiene and 30 extra pounds? Ewwwww! You dirty slut! The level of slut shaming is often in inverse proportion to SMV of the men involved.

6 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

Wow. Never heard that before. Interesting!

6 upvotesgistaminute2 years ago

This is how I was thinking. My evidence is when they think you're a 1 and then you fuck up and they still agree to see you again. When they come back you're a 0 and you know they've probably fucked a Chad and talked strategy with their girlfriends in between. They'll have lots of rules etc and fuck in 1-2 dates, or if you're really hopeless then you can end up in -1 zone.

5 upvotesMckallidon2 years ago

Holy shit. I saved this comment. This post and these comments are the start of something new.

4 upvotesMetalgear2222 years ago

Archwinger has a great post on this. It suggests that there are 4 categories. Beta, Alpha, Omega, and Unattainable. This is the most accurate theory I've found so far.

1 upvotesscissor_me_timbers002 years ago

What's the unattainable? And what about sigmas?

1 upvotesMetalgear2222 years ago

Unattainable is the category where the a man's SMV is exponentially higher than the woman. The woman, in an attempt for self-preservation, puts the man in an unattainable category because she recognizes (subconsciously) that her SMV is not comparable and she has no chance with that particular man.

4 upvoteschoomguy2 years ago

I like the 3 scale. I rate women the same way. Would, would if drunk, and wouldnt ever.

2 upvotesMenchenFive2 years ago

Its not a binary scale, but a range from "Would bang and be able to brag about it" to "A creep that shouldn't even look at me".

2 upvotesgodfatherchimp2 years ago

And often times the only practical difference between a beta and omega is the amount of money she thinks he has

1 upvotesorezavi2 years ago

I'd rather be a -1 than a 0.

1 upvotesyawaworht-_-2 years ago

Quality comment, but I hate when comments get more upvotes that the post. The comment couldn't exist without the post.

1 upvotesStationarity2 years ago

Be Attractive +1

Be Rich 0

Don't be unattractive -1

1 upvotesHeinzdoofens2 years ago

Can confirm. Moved from 1 to 0 to -1 XD

470 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

If you are a 1 to them they will love your hobbies, make time for you, be excited and giggle with you, probably have sex with you pretty easily. The difference in how you get treated is night and day.

women don't think funny men are sexy. women think sexy men are funny.

120 upvotesforreal86192 years ago

That has to be one of the best philisophical/ literal statements I've read. The red pill has done its job with you friend.

13 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

So much insight only in this reddit post alone...

43 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

Pretty much. Cant tell you how many times ive said something unfunny and gotten a laugh anyways.

7 upvotesdestraht2 years ago

My African Grey parrot knows exactly the funniest parts of everything that I have ever said and laughs out loud. Its a super awesome and cuter laugh track.

3 upvotese4tshit2 years ago

I'll be watching standup and start laughing, then my African Grey will start laughing in my voice and that makes me laugh more, then we're both laughing our asses off. My apartment is a mad house.

12 upvotesAGenericUsername10042 years ago

Relevant Comic

27 upvotesLandry862 years ago

A funny man who is also hot: Sexy

A funny man who is not hot: Funny

40 upvoteslqtys2 years ago

He doesn't have to be funny. When a woman is attracted to a man, she finds funny everything he says, even when it is not funny. It's a common IOI.

0 upvotesLandry862 years ago

Jeez... I can't even find a man attractive unless he's funny! It's like my #1 requirement next to intelligence

"If you can make a woman laugh you can make her do anything"

Right?! ;-)

12 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

"If you can make a woman laugh you can make her do anything" Right?! ;-)

No. Many girls tell me I'm funny.

Not all will fuck me, in fact a very small percentage will do it. My fault tough.

4 upvotesFuckYouIAmDrunk2 years ago

I still cant make her do a threesome :(

-3 upvotesLandry862 years ago

Then she's not laughing hard enough :) <3

3 upvotesFuckYouIAmDrunk2 years ago

What am I a clown? Do you think this is funny?


5 upvotesscissor_me_timbers002 years ago

Mm, sorta. A beta who is funny can definitely use his humor to charm his way into some pussy.

But generally yeah, women will just laugh at alphas whether they're actually funny or not.

1 upvotes5t3fan02 years ago

spot on! im writing down this gold nugget in my trp notes

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yep, just put "if he is attractive" in front of their statements. A woman says "I like smart men" and what she means is "I like hot men that are also intelligent".

49 upvotesfullyopen2 years ago

I don't agree about money. There's a difference between good money and fuck you money.

With a low six figure income and all the other accoutrements, women will get a decent life. If you're making seven figures, women know they can get ALMOST anything they want and now don't care if you're fat. If you live an exciting life that screams "I'm loaded" they will come.

If you make an eight figure income and women realize they can live in your yacht for the rest of their life without lifting a finger, you could be morbidly obese they will not care.

What you think is good money and what a woman thinks is good money are two different things. The real question is what life can a woman have on just your income. If it isn't all glamour but rather comfort, then you can't be a fat loser. She can get a job herself and find a hot fun and exciting dude for the tingles.

So you say you drive a BMW and worked on making money. Are you relatively rich or fuck your rich? If the former, you're damn right you gotta fix yourself.

But, i sincerely hope you're also fixing yourself to be the best version of yourself. Those who do it for "the women" are the type who will get stuck on some princess and have never really learned anything. They fall hard. Be the best version of you.

22 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

I agree with this. I'm not wealthy by any means, I turned away from a high powered career and am now working a lower paying job. I work 4 days a week and can still afford a comfortable life. I tend to pick up a lot of girls that have careers already and just want the tingles. I dont feel like wealth is necessary at all if you have the proper frame. I'm looked at as the fun and adventurous guy and pull everyone into that frame. I have a ton of stories from traveling the world and I'm very good at telling them. Be an entertaining storyteller and you will always get women.

17 upvotesDeadShot912 years ago

Can confirm. My mother is/has been the main bread winner for our home growing up. However my dad is naturally Red Pill as fuck with impenetrable frame.

Growing up I was so confused how he would just shut her the fuck down whenever she dared to question him or shit test him. "Why haven't they divorced, she deserves to be treated like a princess and it's like he doesn't even care sometimes..." But it all makes sense now.

Well played, Pops. Well played.

2 upvotesbadaod2 years ago

Yes, thanks for that observation! I had the same with my grandpa. He served in war and never talked about it. I did not know him well other than some infos about beating my dad He probably was RP, guessing from the stories.

Now, my Dad had frame but lost it anytime he got into rage about tiny things. I would say he was almost RP but these moments when he struggled signaled to me that men are not that strong. also the whole zeitgeist in the 80s contributed to it (I am from Europe).

what a wrong interpretation i took from it as a child.

My nature was always RP but i could never admit it fully as i assumed I also had these weak moments like my dad.

How wrong I was.

actually i am more strong than he is. I found that out after my failed marriage last year ... and (of course) thanks to Rolo Tomassi's book, some good friends and this forum.

Thanks for all you are contributing here. I am grateful to have found my real self - and many of you helped.

1 upvotesRepublic_of_Ash2 years ago

I think you're confused about what RP is.

upvoteskabhi232 years ago

I'm trying to develop my story telling skills. Any posts you can point me to, or blogposts?

2 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

I haven't read anything on better storytelling, but I can give great advice. The biggest thing about storytelling is knowing what details are necessary for the story. You can cut a lot of the slow stuff out. What you cut out is probably more important than what you put in. Don't be too wordy and get straight to the point. Try not to repeat yourself as well, unless someone asks you to.

Also, ALWAYS be animated and totally into the story you're telling. You should have high energy. Try to use different voices or accents for the various people in your story. When you use the accent/voice for the first time in the story, don't be all serious about it though, use the first accent as kind of a joke. You want to take a micro-pause and look around for the laughs, then continue with the story. You use that first pause as kind of an indicator to your audience that you're going to be using voices and accents in the story. You don't pause at all after that. The micro pause just acclimates them to the story style and pulls them into it.

Try to convey how you're feeling at each major point in the story. Bring them into the story and make the world float away.

All of this advice is way easier to demonstrate than to write about, but hopefully most of it made sense.

6 upvotesRenato10922 years ago

As my collegaue would say, a fat man is a pig, a rich fat man is a cute bear.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yes i'm not lambo wealthy, just well off enough to have a decent life, which again i agree most women can provide for themselves now.

I want to tell you i am doing it for myself, but that would be a lie. I have to be honest here and say my motivation is to find a girlfriend or at least even a girl that will want to just talk and spend time with me. I feel i have many things going for me in my life, but the main thing keeping me from being happy is my inability to attract women.

If you can share what inspired you to make health and fitness something you do for yourself i'd like to know

6 upvotesRP_Scotsman2 years ago

I was in the same boat. Funny thing is once you get your ducks in order and the women start lining up, it doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore. Which is why making sure you are passionate about your health and your career suddenly now seems to me to be that much more important.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

like you said, you should always be your best version

but if you have a 7 figure annual income, you can get any girl. not any specific girl (there will always be outliers), but if one is playing hard to get there are equal and better girls who will jump on your dick

at 7 figure income levels, especially @ 8, you're not trying to get with girls, thhy are trying to get with you

86 upvotesOmegaMan22 years ago

The best advice I can give you is to lift as if your life depended on it.

There are a great many other threads on this sub which will tell you the same thing.

From my own personal experience, it is true. I was an incel for my entire 20s. Believe me that hurt knowing that not a single lady would give you the time of day.

I started lifting, dressing better and bought a Corvette. I started getting dates and the "pièce de résistance" was when one young lady said that she absolutely loved watching my muscles as we fucked.

Hit the gym and hit it hard. The rewards in not only physique but in self confidence will be like nothing you've ever experienced.

Good Luck brother, and don't give up.

edit: as others on this thread intimate, there is more to getting a girl, but lifting and the confidence is gives you will provide you with an enormous advantage.

20 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

Oh hell yes it does give you an advantage. It makes up for so many holes in my game lol. I make so many mistakes but end up getting laid anyways.

4 upvotesoGz6492 years ago

That's so true.1year ago I started to lifting I was 70kg with %20bf.Im not a long person.170cm (5'5" maybe dunno) and I got so much positive effects from lifting.Self confidence, people looking at me different way..But best advice I can give you here OP,don't try to show that you are lifting.Let them see differences..My fault is I share on Instagram (not to be cocky motherfucker) that's changes to give some friends inspiration.Now I'm with %10bf..And I'm loving it.. Good luck!

3 upvotes_This_Is_Magic_2 years ago

But if you have small dick nothing else matters.

1 upvotesSynacku2 years ago

As someone​ who owns a Z06 Corvette and is now dressing nicer with "ever so slightly" an increase in response from women, I seriously think the lifting part might be the deciding factor here. Fuuuuuuuuck I hate going to the gym

3 upvotesOmegaMan22 years ago

Don't despair. You may have to force yourself at first, but if you go regularly it quickly becomes a habit and after a while you'll look forward to going.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Up the tren, fuck bitches. All you gotta know

upvotesItsNotShane2 years ago

I don't understand this whole "LIFT RELIGIOUSLY."

I have a friend that has a great physique, almost 200 lbs, 5'11, has a '17 Camaro. He gets no girls and constantly lies about his successes. The only girls he has bagged are literal hoes you could spit game to and bring back within an hour. Bro's game is SUPER weak, why? Because he spent all that time lifting and working. His game suffered exponentially, or maybe he's just ugly in the face and doomed.. Idk. We need to put more emphasis on getting girls wet and seducing em.

6 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yeah, sticking feathers up your buttt does not make you a chicken.

6 upvotesmarplaneit2 years ago

I have a friend in the same position, it's just this;

1- Retarded social skills. 2- Ugly face. 3- Insecure as fuck.

3 upvotesgrewapair2 years ago

An ugly face is the hardest thing to overcome.

0 upvotesxx69bootyhunter69xx2 years ago

Just a query... I'm going to assume you live in the United States. Is it really hard (legality-wise) to get escort services over there? Or did you not have enough funds to get high end ones? Or was it that you didn't like paying for sex?

upvotesBigRedJuan2 years ago

It's true that that women are much harsher than men when it comes to evaluating looks. OK Cupid has some intetesting research on this.

However, let me give you some hope. A lot of hope actually.

Like you, I spent a lot of time at the gym with no results in the women department. I had an excellent job and all my clothes were custom tailored Jos A Banks. Zero fucks given by women.

Around 2010 I lost just about everything. Which turned out to be amazing. I started reading some PUA articles and began to focus on my body language and attitude. And things started changing.

Currently, I have a rather menial dirty job in a very low income bracket. More women approach and flirt with me than EVER. The women I date are WAY over my head. How do I do it? Pure confidence.

When you are knocked down and everything is taken from you; and then you get back up, brush yourself off and say "Is that the best you got?" - that attitude is palpable.

Seal, Mick Jagger and Billy Joel and Lyle Lovett are all uglier than sin dipped in shit; yet, are married to supermodels and actresses. Yeah, they are rich - but they are confident too.

You say you are depressed. Women can smell that a mile away. See a psychologist/psychiatrist and get some medication. Until then, you need to "fake it until you make it". Really, confidence is a feedback system. Watch your posture, walk slower, move more gracefully, take up more space, act as if you own wherever you are and are amused by your surroundings. When you look at men, think "I can kill you" and when you look at women, think "I could fuck you." Stare everybody down. Talk slower and lower. Do that for three months and you will notice a difference. After a year, it will be natural.

Good luck my brother!

10 upvotesscissor_me_timbers002 years ago

lol don't "stare everybody down". Don't look at everybody as whether you could kill them or fuck them. Good hell you are a true autist.

upvotesBigRedJuan2 years ago

I'm just saying what made a difference for me. In America, when the eyes of males meet - the first to avert their gaze is typically subordinate. Similarly, if you don't have the balls to maintain eye contact with a woman, you aren't going to be able to approach her.

Primally, as a male, we only have two functions - killing and fucking. You don't exist to watch children, cook, clean, be a nice guy, help old ladies cross the road and fetch kittens out of trees. You exist to kill and fuck. Drill that into your head and your confidence will go up, it will act as a feminist repellent, and women will be inexplicably be drawn to you because you make them feel safe and sexy.

Or I could just be autistic. You be the decider.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

People think you mean random eye contact and not eye contact while talking. If you see some dude randomly looking at you briefly while he is gazing, and you hold that eye contact in a way of making him look away first then it will be weird and aggressive. But in conversation, you are more correct.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea i've wanted a manual labor job for a while now. I don't care about the pay but what intrigues me is being able to be so tired at the end of the day i won't be able to think "oohhh boo hoo she doesnt like me" i'll just fuckin pass out

1 upvotesTommy_4072 years ago

Construction guy here can confirm manual labor will help the manly swagger thing a bit. FYI it will give you more confidence than just making you too tired at the end of the day, you'll have many endorphins and dopamine flowing, although you will be a bit fatigued.

Making you too tired to give a damn is one of the lowest expectations IMHO. it doesn't work like that but that would be a minimum benefit. The real benefits would be more confidence.

2 upvotesTommy_4072 years ago

I like the whole thing you said but do you really recommend staring everyone down? Isn't this a little awkward

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

You lost me at jos a banks

1 upvotesjm512 years ago

Seal, Mick Jagger and Billy Joel and Lyle Lovett are all uglier than sin dipped in shit; yet, are married to supermodels and actresses.

Shortarse Mickey Rooney married 19yo Ava Gardner.

16 upvoteslukky_pierre2 years ago

Oh I don't know, OP. I used to be big into PU, and I got pretty good at it. Let me use me as an example.

Physically, I'm nothing special. In fact, on paper, I'm unattractive: short, skinny and losing my hair. Because of this, I was never successful in bars and clubs. I held no value in environments where value was predicated on looks.

However, I also taught ESL classes in NYC at that time. Put me up in front of a room and let me run my smooth-talking mouth, and suddenly BAM! I had women throwing themselves at me. I had Italian beauties and Japanese rich girls inviting me out for drinks and fucking me discreetly.

Those are the extreme ends of my spectrum: zilch in bars and clubs, abondanza when I was the front man in my own little ESL rock show.

If we're talking average, I do ok in environments like parks on a nice day. I do well on vacations in foreign countries when chatting up strangers is more usual. In terms of physical fitness, I found that women have a much stronger response to fashion than they do to musculature - in other words, my meager physical gains got me way less attention than learning how to dress, which got me a significant boost in female attention.

What I'm saying is, in my experience the ol' PU precept that feminine attraction is more complex than male attraction has absolutely held true.

A wise PUA once said: it only takes one hook to catch a fish. For some guys, that hook happens to be looks. Which, let's not kid ourselves, is a pretty great hook to have in the water. It's probably the second-best hook (after social proof - if you're ugly and broke but famous, you'll still get laid). But it's not the only hook. Thank fucking god.

8 upvotesempatheticapathetic2 years ago

ESL = English as a Second Language for those who also need to google it.

5 upvotesdestraht2 years ago

I also get super low numbers in bars and (basically nothing in) clubs but in overall I've done pretty good and if I had to estimate I'd be into the 60's or more. I have an unusual outlook on life and so I need to create my own reality bubble around myself and to pull a woman into it and in a club I'm just an unpolished and less glitzy dude passing through some other guys bubble (the owner of the place, the DJ, etc).

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I see so what you are saying is i should find what i am talented at and use that as a filter to allow women who are inspired by what i teach to be interested in me for more genuine reasons rather than the superficial stuff i'm so intent is causing me this failure.

1 upvoteslukky_pierre2 years ago

Pretty much, yeah.

What do you have going for you? What do you feel is interesting about you? Any cool hobbies, etc?

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

My main hobby right now is onewheeling and mountain boarding, both of which are super weird and niche.

I just got a motorcycle. A zero SR.

I made an app and its on iOs right now and people make money on it (although its no where near uber poppin obviously)

I like the stock market and feel i outperform the majority of my peers which is a good feeling. Also planning on taking the series 63 and 65 to start my own hedge fund if I continue to be interested in the stuff. Reading a book on options too.

I produce music and do photography/videography

Feel like im also really passionate and motivated in what i set my mind to, which isnt a skill but a good characteristic.

Lastly im a great listener and am really successful in sales, which is how i'm able to afford a good livelihood.

2 upvoteslukky_pierre2 years ago

My main hobby right now is onewheeling and mountain boarding, both of which are super weird and niche.

By one-wheeling do you mean unicycles? That's super weird, don't bring that up. Mountain boarding doesn't sound weird to me. Anyway, both those things make you happy. Continue doing them, but don't think of them as an avenue to meet women.

I just got a motorcycle. A zero SR.

That's exciting, although some guys with bikes can come off a little try-hard. Beware that pitfall.

I made an app and its on iOs right now and people make money on it (although its no where near uber poppin obviously)

Pretty neat. That'll add value where you already have some, but as you said, if you're a "0" in her eyes, it won't get you anywhere.

I like the stock market and feel i outperform the majority of my peers which is a good feeling. Also planning on taking the series 63 and 65 to start my own hedge fund if I continue to be interested in the stuff. Reading a book on options too.

Irrelevant to your interactions with women. Don't bring it up.

I produce music and do photography/videography

BAM! Now that's cool and fun. I'm guessing this is your hobby, since you say sales is your livelihood. That's a great way to meet people, especially people who have the same interests.

One of the best PUA's from back in the day was into photography. He liked photographing people, so he'd go out to bars and ask local bands if it was cool to take pictures. Afterwards he'd share these pics with the band, who were often grateful for high-quality photography of their shows. In this way he got to know a lot of people around town, his social circle grew, his value swelled, etc. etc.

He was a cool guy who had a lot going for him, but his camera was, in many cases, his hook. If I were in your shoes, the photo/video hobbies are the ones I'd develop as a means of pulling tail.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea onewheel is kinda like a unicycle skateboard lol its super fun. I also like downhill bombing.

Motorcycle is more for commuting and saving gas because its electric.

Yup i thought having an app makes me cool because not many people are able to do that, but you are right it only supplements.

Alright cool i'll figure out ways to use my camera creatively to meet new people. Thanks man!

44 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Look, your goal is a good starting point, but don't be blinded by the fact that your physical attractiveness is everything.

Girls will look at the best deal and it includes your facial and body attractiveness ( and it's not the same for every woman ), your body language, self-esteem, humor, social status, how alpha are you, are you more extrovert or more introvert, your lifestyle and yes to some extend (IMO not very much) even your monetary success.

And this comes from somebody who's competing in bodybuilding (men's physique) for nearly 4 years now.

And it's not really 0 to 1. It's more like 0 to 100. That's why there is a thing called branch swinging. Even if you're in the top 20%, if she can get a better deal, she will take it. She's just climbing that tree and wants to get as high as possible before she hits the wall.

Good luck!

6 upvotesAskada2 years ago

I don't quite agree with the last part.

Branch swinging isn't always for the better. Different is often more than enough. Don't fool yourself thinking if you are the best guy out there, top 1%, she will never leave you. She will in a fucking heartbeat once she gets bored.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Thanks for the right up man. I definitely agree its not as binary in the long term, in my post i was referring more to a first impression type situation where she will be much more receptive to what makes you unique if she finds you a "1" immediately.

I agree with you on her branch swinging once shes already comfortable with you.

upvotestrpdand2 years ago


are everything.

4 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

And a good excuse to jerk off in your mamma basement for the rest of your life.

People who have that 0 and 1 logic and "looks are everything" / "money is everything" mindset are usually the ones who don't have enough brain power to process more than one variable in the equation.

upvotestrpdand2 years ago

But alas, are we to deny that a few variables will have a much more significant effect than others?

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yes, some variables are multiplied by a higher number than others. And with every other woman, this equation is different.

12 upvotes503392 years ago

No one will ever like you for who you are. Or any of us for that matter. Because the world only wants from you what you can offer it. Don't hold women to a higher standard than you do your co workers, boss, or the turd who cut you off in traffic this morning.

20 upvotesfuckeduphomebody2 years ago

You are right. At first, you are a 1 or a 0. After that, if you are a one you will be seen on scale of 0 to 100 as itsjustsimon said.

52 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

The same basically applies to men. You should not be surprised that women want attractive partners, especially attractive women. I realized this at 15 and that's when I started lifting weights (11 years ago). Do men want to sleep with/date unattractive women? No. same applies for females.

10 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I'm not going to lie and say i'm not surprised. Honestly i am. I thought my whole life if i get good grades and a good job i'll get the girl i like. It was a shock when i found out this isnt completely true. I didnt realize they would mostly undermine all your other accomplishments simply because you don't adhere to their attraction standards.

Since taking the red pill ive been internalizing women want attractive partners for thise accomplishments to have any meaning.

Thanks for writing.

4 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

appreciate your honesty. the good(?) news is: as a man your job and status can increase your attractiveness. As a woman your job typically can't increase your attractiveness. So work hard at everything you do and constantly improve, that's what this sub is about at its core; being the best version of yourself possible. get good grades, hit the gym, eat less junk food, take care of your skin, keep a good haircut, read more books.

34 upvotesInfiniteAscent2 years ago

No it doesn't. This has been confirmed multiple time, including a rather famous plot by OKcupid. While men will rate women on a rather continuous scale from 1-10, women rate men in a bimodal distribution. In other words, guys will rate based on how attractive they are, but women rate based on IF you are attractive or not.

30 upvotesredpillthrowaway1122 years ago

Men rate HOW attractive (1-10) and women rate IF attractive (Yes/No). Totally accurate summary.

12 upvotesSlut_Slayer90002 years ago

The difference is men will fuck girls that theyhave zero plans to ever been in a relationship with. For women their social stigma is more at stake for sleeping with a man who isn't relationship worthy so its narrowed down to a point where they will only fuck men that they could possibly be in a relationship with where as men view women as one of three ways. We either would never fuck them, only fuck them, or fuck them and potentially LTR them.

3 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

For women their social stigma is more at stake for sleeping with a man who isn't relationship worthy

this is not the case anymore in 2017 western civilization.

2 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

at the end of the day it's either attractive enough to bang or not. it's binary. Unattractive people are unattractive to the opposite sex. what a concept

5 upvotesJohnnyDildonics2 years ago

so get good or get rich to buy the goods, or die tryin'.

1 upvotesSnazzy_Serval2 years ago

That's a great way of putting it.

It's actually pretty eye opening.

11 upvotesEGOtyst2 years ago

But only one part of the scale matters:

1 - would fuck

0 - would not fuck

0 upvotesjayj592 years ago

For sex, sure. The rest matters in determining how much they'll put up with to get the sex

8 upvotesjckiker2 years ago

Yes but with guys, there are varying degrees of attraction to women. OP is saying it's binary for women.

18 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

I'm arguing that it's binary for most men too

8 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

It's obviously binary for everybody.

You cannot half-fuck somebody.

But you can fuck a girl once, and never again.

1 upvotesAskada2 years ago

It is, and it's good.

Rating women in 1-10 scale, like we usually do, leads to unecessary pedestalization.

0-1 is simple as it should be.

upvotestrpdand2 years ago

It really isn't. How many whales in their 30-40s score somewhat decent looking men as a beta husband? You never see the reverse happening.

6 upvotesG4RRETT2 years ago

How many whales in their 30-40s score somewhat decent looking men as a beta husband? You never see the reverse happening.

Hardly any probably. I see the reverse happen much more frequently though it's called being rich.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yeah, but if we're comparing the value of women who can do that with the value of men who can do that, they're not even close to being in the same league.

upvotesVilna_Gaon2 years ago

Outside of a few cities (like New York), it's fucking brutal out there for men. We are working out, getting in the best shape ever, making ourselves interesting, earning lots of money, for what? Just to be in a sea of other men just like us. Women make their own money now, they don't need us. We've taken ourselves to the extreme just to be rejected by 4,5,6,7,8, and 9s. We are lucky to even have a woman text us back. All while a woman has dozen of men after them at any given time... shit, hundreds if they want. We are in bad times brothers.

To become a "1" in the eyes of a woman, to even have a chance with her, is becoming more difficult. Partly because there are more men now than ever, partly because apps made it easier for women, and various other reasons. I see that men are going to be more and more unhappy in the future. Women are fine living without a man. But it'll drive men crazy to not fuck.

8 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea im having a particularly brutal day after getting rejected by every single girl i talked to. Including two girls that weighed more than me. It sucks, but i can't give up until I die.

6 upvotesdestraht2 years ago

Hot women respond dramatically better to me than ham fists (maybe proactively rejecting me or their value delusion?). For me its just a matter of putting myself around lots of hot women and then one of them will like me. The rub seems to always be finding where they are.

upvotesVilna_Gaon2 years ago

Ouch. What area are you in? Where I'm at, west coast tech city, there aren't even women here to reject the men. It's just men everywhere.

5 upvotesmatrixpush2 years ago

Agreed, it's also not even limited to tech cities. The ratio in the US 20-45 is probably something like 15 available men to 1 available woman. It's not documented, but it should be.

upvotesVilna_Gaon2 years ago

I'm nearing financial freedom and one I reach it I'm going to research this as I'll have the time to dedicate.

2 upvotesmatrixpush2 years ago

Google "United States of too many men". I'd post the link directly but not sure it's allowed. I'd say that's the most in-depth explanation out there. It was posted on a red pill forum, most didn't agree though.

3 upvotesFreyWill2 years ago

Must have been nice when there were major wars and ~30% of eligible men were overseas.

0 upvotesHehlol2 years ago

Holy shit you sound pathetic.

7 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

No. You are looking at it the wrong way. Women can't look things in binary, they follow their emotions. And to get her into bed, you gotta take them on a roller coaster of emotions...you know, push-pull.

6 upvotesMerwebb2 years ago

Push pull is big.

Just realized that i have been wasting chances and opportunities by not pulling, by being easily reachable - even giving myself away -

This shit is tiring man

5 upvotesjustgotalpha2 years ago

I know what you mean,you dont have to be male model status to fuck women but yes she needs to find you attractive.i went from below average to above average looking,its all in grooming,working out,dieting and finding a haircut that suits your face and good fashion style..i went from considering plastic surgery to damnn i look good!!! Alot of guys might think they are ugly until they go through a strict routine of grooming and doing all the things i mentioned above

2 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

You dont even have to be the most attractive guy in the room, you just have to pass the threshold of being attractive. Game will seperate you from the rest once you have that handled.

1 upvotesjustgotalpha2 years ago

Thats true,you dont have to be the most attractive in the room but you DO want to be the best one!! We look at women for the most part for her looks ,they look at us for the whole package,so combining looks with game is where guys should be,game becomes easier when you have looks even though most women might be intimidated its alot easier to get laid...i spinned 2 HB7 barely putting effort,as a good looking guy the first thing you should never do is act nervous ,she thinks your are cofident by default and that will basically lead to getting her to bed Just by acting confident!!!

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yes i agree. Its a fine line between 0 and 1 but it could be the difference between simply a few percentage points in body fat, one level promotion, and even something like a shaved head vs. cool haircut. I'm currently below the minimum threshold to be considered attractive, but it won't be impossible to go above it.

1 upvotesjustgotalpha2 years ago

You have to work with what you got and see how you could make the best of it,find your style ,lift,groom, diet and get a haircut that suits you well ,if your bald grow a beard ....follow this and women will think of you as attractive

5 upvotesBravoF12 years ago

" I'm still struggling with depression and anger after working my whole life to be semi successful monetary wise .... " -OP

Women can smell depression and desperation in you. Don't try to get pumped in the gym without dealing with that inner weakness of sadness. Don't see that crap as a strength of your emotional side. Be highly positive and full of lifting words. Let your comments be warm and yet scarse do women. Don't saturate them with flattery because then you'll be part of the bunch who try to drop panties. Your objective (abstractly speaking) is to show them that your door is open and if they walk in, you will take care of them emotionally and sexually. Resist as much as you can from speaking out desperately.

Texting- Don't SPAM. This means sending 4 messages just to say a casual goodnight. Don't be desperate man... This also means don't send her a " good morning my sour skittle! " first thing in the morning ( unless she does it first ). Leave the door open for her ass to make a move. You'd be SUPRISED how unafraid women are to text a man. You will probably get that whole " i didn't wanna bother you._. " thing. That might be the most friendly friend zone ever, or it might mean just that. You'll have to figure her out and see if she really is shy or just being retarded. If she likes you and is just shy, you won't have a hard time communicating.

Golden Rule: Be Different. Don't dress like the typical "alpha" guy. Ever wonder why women (american women) love foreigners? Because they're different! They speak different things, dress differently, act differently, and the girls get a sense of adventure from this.

If you're just an average joe with an ectomorph ( slender man ) body. You can still make it happen. There are tons of average and below average girl who hides the ugliness with make up. That means you can hide your average self, not by being a make up guy... DRESS NICE.

I don't want to type anymore srsly....bye

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Thanks for the write up. I try my best to be cool and collected, but unless i be direct with a woman she won't even know I exist.

I do think i give up too quick, like when a girl I invited to go on a hike said no to me and then she ended up going anyway and posted it on her snapchat story it really effected me and i removed her as a friend.

Lastly yes i need to work on fashion, ive never been interested in it my whole life and think its pretty stupid (i dont enjoy it) but i guess i have to to have a decent shot.

2 upvoteshenry5892 years ago

it's seem like you lack confidence or you derive your self-worth through a woman's approval.

Just work on becoming a better version of yourself. Talk to multiple girls, if they reject you, just move on. It could be a variety of factors on why they rejected you.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I don't have any confidence and when i fake it it doesnt help either. Just a lifetime of rejection and being taught to punish yourself for your mistakes rather than reward yourself for your successes really took a toll on me.

4 upvoteshenry5892 years ago

Confidence in talking to women or confidence in yourself ?

Confidence is built, its after x number of success you become confident in something. From reading what you have post, it seems like bodybuilding is one of your measures of success.

Btw, eventually you stop giving a fuck if a women rejects you, I have been rejected hundreds if not thousands of times. Eventually you stop caring. It might take you hundreds before you find a women that is receptive to you, this is the case for the majority of men. Also, women can detect desperation and insecurities by your body language.

1 upvotesofficerkondo2 years ago

Ever wonder why women (american women) love foreigners? Because they're different! They speak different things, dress differently, act differently, and the girls get a sense of adventure from this.

It is because women lack in-group loyality. See, e.g., la collaboration horizontale.

6 upvotesOPWills2 years ago

So you perceive your unattractiveness is primarily a weight problem? Just looking for clarification.

12 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yes that and my fashion sense is pretty bad. But i'll focus on fashion a bit more when i am not so flabby because i think there is no point in filling my shirt out with soft flab

11 upvotesWisdomination2 years ago

There is no point in buying nice shirts if you’re planning to be a different shape in six months, too.

19 upvotesflashbang1232 years ago

Agreed. Go full monk mode for 6 months. Get you ass into the kingdom of the iron. Drink only water. Read more. Eliminate porn if you haven't already. Pursue a passion or hobby project. Make sure you are making these changes for you - and not some unicorn.

5 upvotessolbrothers2 years ago

This is pretty much what trp is to me, in a nutshell. Do these things and you won't have to chase women as they will seek you out

6 upvotesimn0tg00d2 years ago

True. I was "complaining" to one of my friends the other day about how girls just keep falling out of the sky into my lap.

3 upvotesThrowFader2 years ago

Keep at it and good luck bro

3 upvotesMechanik_J2 years ago

Don't become a better person for other people. Become a better person for yourself. As you said it, working hard and making money didn't bring you any closer to having sex with women. And working hard to become physically attractive could possibly make it easier to have sex with women (and give you an ego/confidence boost) But having sex with lots of women won't bring you happiness either. No other person will "complete you" (if being completed by another person even existed.) until your happy and satisfied with yourself. Make decisions that make life worthwhile for you.

2 upvotesFutdashukup2 years ago

Power? Its an aphrodisiac, dontcha know.

2 upvotesQuestionnaire72 years ago

This is not true. Unless .25, .3, .4, .5, etc are on the scale. In my last math class I sat next to a hot ass chick. She gave me a lot of IOIs initially ended up rejecting me and getting very offended the time she asked me to do the Lab Assignment with her and I said we should do it at my house (did not see me as a sexual option). Yet she was very receptive to everything else about me. Compare me with the dweeb dude that sat infront of us, he would have been a 0. There was one day he said something to her, she had a look of digest and did not respond. Then I essentially repeated the same line with my own twist and she was laughing and smiling. So yes there is some logic to this but it is not night and day.

To girls you are invisible or visible, but there are a lot of visible guys they are going to turn down. Plus no matter how attractive you become there will always be some girls that dont want you. No matter what.

2 upvotesForcetobereckonedwit2 years ago

Kudos on the new food habits! Before long you'll forget why you even liked that crap. The healthier youeat/exercise, the better you feel and less you crave sugar/fat/salt. Also, keep at the gym/yoga/MMA, whatever floats your boat...just do SOMETHING physical.

It's funny, women complain endlessly that we only like them if they're hot. You're complaining that they don't want you unless you're hot...the difference is YOU CAN BECOME HOT in girl terms. Solid lifestyle, shrp dress-er, physically fit, well groomed, funny, confident. These are the things that women consider hot and they are all things you can create. Sure, they also crave tall guys (%&#$%%$#, I'm not tall) but aside from that and racial preferences, we as men can change ourselves to become desirable to women. They have a 20 year window of sexual attractivity IF they keep themselves in shape and dress to invite. We just get better and better.

You're on the right track, just keep at it.

2 upvotesAfrotoast422 years ago

It's because women are shopping for what they want their future children to look like. Trust me. I've dated about 35 chicks in my lifetime. The ones who want you, DIG IN HARD and turn psycho when you leave them, often dipping into sociopathy for a while. The ones who only want a shag will stick around until they begin to contemplate their future, and then will dump you to find someone that matches what they want their babes to look like. My last ex was one of these. Ended things suddenly after 6 months when a red-headed neckbeard took interest in her(he was my coworker). things ended between them fast, and then she went off the deep end hard, swore off all men, and went pseudo lesbian for a while, continued to spiral down, gained about 30 pounds, and is now an owner of 2 squirrels, 2 cats, a rabbit, and a husky. She asked months ago why i stopped being friends with her, and I replied that friends don't treat each other like tools. never messaged me back again.

2 upvotesCheeesetoasties2 years ago

Good work on the self improvement, I've been doing the same myself. Just remember to do it for you and not some other person. I made that mistake and my motivation wavered.

2 upvotesFamineX2 years ago

Don't be bitter. I'm on my journey from almost 300 lbs to 200 (6"3 with the broad build). You will notice changes in behavior every 30 lbs or so. With this often comes a lifestyle change that will also brighten you up - picking up MMA classes or anything similar will help. Regardless of your success, you need to drop that anger and depression bullshit. Would you date a landwhale? Probably not, so why do you expect beautiful women to like fat motherfuckers? If I want to bed fit women, I better be fit myself.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea i didnt know that until literally right now i thought theyd still like me cuz of my job and money. Realizing that now. My bad i'm fucking late to the game.

I want to take mma but im a pussy. It could probably help with that too.

1 upvotesFamineX2 years ago

why? most classes are extremely friendly and will adjust to you as beginner. No need to be afraid.

2 upvotesVickVaseline2 years ago

You must be pretty muscular to be 5'9", 190lbs, and not be a lot more than 20% BF.

Good on you, though. Brown rice saved my life.

1 upvoteschaosrunssociety2 years ago

Yo, the food industry is really hurting our individual abilities to improve ourselves. Brown rice is good because you always need to match fiber with sugar.

The food industry replaced fat with sugar, which is essentially a fat precursor. While they can stick 5g of fat in food, they can stick much more sugar and the sugar might increase in mass when it is converted into fat by your body. Sugar is also more addictive than cocaine and just as toxic.

I also have a hunch reduced fat milks have more sugar than whole milk.

TL;DR; cut sugar in your diet and don't worry so much about fat consumption.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

"It doesnt matter if she looks like shrek or she looks like arianny celeste, if she doesnt find you attractive she won't settle, she will move the fuck on."

What I only recently truly accepted is that libido is not tied to a person's external looks.

A fat girl is not attracted to a fat guy she can lock down. She is simply settling for him. Let's say a girl starts at 120 lbs and then she gains 5 lbs per month. What she finds attractive does not change after 2 years when she weighs over 200 lbs. She might marry a fat guy, but won't ever be into him.

upvotesnicetimeisback2 years ago

if you have money, fuck prostitutes.

case closed

14 upvotesslay_it_forward2 years ago

Wrong. Fucking whores is completely unsatisfying. Women moaning, orgasming, enthusiastically sucking your dick, telling you they think about you when fucking other guys, that's satisfying.

Whores actually have a negative effect on your inner game because you know she doesn't want to fuck you so it just makes you feel more worthless.

upvotestrpdand2 years ago

If you're that emotional why bother with one in the first place? It's a transaction that both parties are (should be) fully aware of. She fucks you, you nut; that's it.

1 upvotesslay_it_forward2 years ago

I'm saying it's a shit transaction. It's similar to buying drugs.

2 upvotesdestraht2 years ago

In Ukraine I had countless massages from really sexy girls and in less frequented cities I was able to find places where they looked at me, smelled me and treated me like I was a foreigner rock star. There were probably five of them who made me feel really icky inside afterwards but then I just wouldn't see them again and with others I had a fantastic experience. I really upped my necking game as well and discovering and instantly knowing which type of girl she is and which places that she will accept a nibble and a kiss on and then working on that until they were in heat and some of them would let me do a bunch of things. Totally rad after drinking with my friend or just after a days work. Then the normal girls come naturally when they come. Tons of fun and dramatically safer and feels amazing.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Who gives a fuck about whether she's faking it or not if she's making me cum!?

3 upvotesJohnnyDildonics2 years ago

high class, porn star level prostitutes. just get it out of your system, it will really lower approach anxiety and thirst around hotter women.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I dont want to do this. I might be a homo fantasy loser or whatever but i want a connection with a girl and i want to know she WANTS me so she can have a orgasm, not so she can get monetary compensation.

2 upvotesjm512 years ago

Unless she is very slutty, getting an orgasm is way down on the list of why she fucks you the first few times.

They ALL get monetary compensation in some way or another. There is no such thing as a free jump. If she's worth fucking, even she doesn't get sex for free. You can be the sharpest dressed guy around for the same spend as what an average (feminine) woman spends on clothes, shoes, hairdressers, makeup etc.

1 upvotesslay_it_forward2 years ago

Bullshit. I've fucked 7 girls in the past month and a half and spent very little on any of them. Some nothing at all. If women like you and are attracted to you they will fuck you, pretty simple.

If you're an unattractive loser then I guess yes, you will have to pay in one way or another. Have fun with that.

3 upvotesjm512 years ago

Saying they're free is like saying stuff you've shoplifted is free. The payment is the risk you take. Only needs one girl with buyers remorse to accuse you and you will pay heavily.

2 upvotesslay_it_forward2 years ago

Jesus man. That's the omega shit I've heard in a while.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Well maybe im still a cuck or whatever but i want to believe there is someone out there who wants my nuts once i learn to take care of myself. So just let me have my dreams for now while i make this first step in trying to improve my physical appearance.

1 upvotesabbafishhead2 years ago

That's the ultimate pedestalization of the pussy.

upvotesresonancebyhome2 years ago

A lot of these post scream projection to me. Im betting you 100% see women as 1-0 women are people like you and me. there are shitty women and shitty men. some women are looking for a provider/wallet some men are looking for a warm hole/trophy if you see women as objects to be used don't be surprise you end up with women who see men as objects to be used. the world is not as simple as TRP tries to make it out to be. Expecailly any relationships with people. I bet the majority of the people on this subreddit are individually not as extreme as TRP Group polarization is a major problem with any internet community, but the smaller and more specific the community is the more polarized it becomes.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Your viewpoint on it is different from most other people here and i respect that. I felt like a loser because these girls didnt accept my friendship but i should have shrugged it off and understood they didnt owe me shit, but instead i got in a sort of rage. Its been an ongoing battle in my mind to rationalize the different viewpoints i was taught and what ive learned. I'll try to keep things on an individual basis, which the biggest individual is me

upvotesWolveryn2 years ago

True, a girl knows whether she wants to fuck a guy in a moments glance. (So do men with women btw).

But there are cheats and advantages available (Which Women know about and exploit everyday btw).

And really it comes down to common sense, if you want to be the guy a women glances at and decides she needs to fuck you. Dress for the part.

  1. Build muscle to your absolute natural maximum.

  2. Dress like your favourite role models, dress for what you want to be.

  3. Enjoy life! Enjoy life regardless of your disposition with women, learn to play 'the game'. Its a game for a reason.

3 upvotesMerwebb2 years ago

That batman suite seems better now

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Monetary wise = monitarily

2 upvotesvaljean9132 years ago

Do the Atkins diet. I'm almost same body composition as you. 5'9", was 185 in February. I'm down to 165 and honestly it was a fairly easy diet. It's all fat loss too, I've lost 4" around my belly button. First time in my life I've dieted, and, like I said, it hasn't been hard at all. If you need to know where to get started send me a pm and I'll tell you what I've done recipe wise.

0 upvotesLandry862 years ago

True true true!!!!! You're either attractive or you're not.

And did you know we actually see females the same way? This is why we giggle when we find out y'all slept with a "butterface" "5" because we just see her as a zero! :)

1 upvotessunbro292 years ago

Yeah, I agree. I don't see this as a bad thing, though, as long as the man knows what he is to a particular girl. If you know you're a zero, fantastic, you don't have to waste another second with her. And if you're a one get ready to clap that ass.

1 upvoteskidwithambition2 years ago

Life is binary, you are either a 1 or a 0.

Pretty much can go for anything, in this case a woman knows if she'll fuck you in the first couple minutes knowing you. 1 or 0, its that simple.

1 upvotesSteveLonegan2 years ago

Its definitely easier when they have an immediate physical attraction but its not as cut and dry as a 0-1 scale

1 upvotesno_face2 years ago

If any of you think just race is a limiting factor, take a look at her Indian boyfriend

upvotesokiedokie3212 years ago

24blondes on IG.

Average looking but a ton of money.

Looks can help make up for lack of millionaire status though.

It goes both ways.

1 upvotesbolupua2 years ago

I don't think it's that simple

Many many many girls will give their number, text you, go on dates with you, and never fuck you because you were a 0.5 and you fucked up and became a 0.

1 upvotesBlueBlus2 years ago

Do you mind posting a body pic? I'm same stats as you and am curious what I should look like at that weight since.

1 upvoteshufflesnuff2 years ago

For fucks sake red pill make up your mind. Do women only fuck you if you have money or according to this won't fuck even if you have money ? Oh and guess what men have a 0 or 1 standard too. Would you fuck a 4 and not a 3? Then your 0-1 standard is just lower than others.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Well i think women will appreciate you having money if they already find you attractive. If they don't find you attractive and you flaunt your money you are setting yourself up to get used.

Also, i have in the past any many of my friends have had sex with a girl we've considered a 0 because we just wanted to get our nut.

1 upvotesabbafishhead2 years ago

Money is almost irrelevant in getting laid most of the time; I doubt in itself it would "make or break" your prospects at getting laid. What really "makes or breaks" your prospects is looks and not having beta traits. That's it. Take it from a guy with a triple-digit n-count.

1 upvotesSnazzy_Serval2 years ago

Good luck with losing that body fat. Don't be disappointed if you don't hit your goal in 90 days.

I started at 5'5, 148.5 lbs @ 28.6% body fat. One year later I'm 142 @ 26%. I've been working out 3-4 days every week and trying to eat better.

This shit is not easy.

1 upvotesbrettfromtibet2 years ago

You're eating too many carbs!! Try the paleo or primal diet and it will fly off and stay off. Another option: If you want to lose 1 lb a week almost guaranteed try 5:2 intermittent fasting.

1 upvotesSnazzy_Serval2 years ago

You're eating too many carbs!!

I know that. Yet I've already given up eating bread and pasta.

Yeah I think I need to try a more extreme diet.

1 upvotesKommanderdude2 years ago

Low testosterone. You have it.

1 upvotesslhouston2 years ago

She's just not that into you. Works with men and women

1 upvotesMerwebb2 years ago

Dude i think women can like you for who you are if you are confident on it. You said it yourself, is NOT the money, and ive seen also that is NOT the physique too.

When i feel confident i at least k close. When im not, even the easier stuff with the most available women are impossible. Just like that.

Working out makes us confident. Attaining goals makes us confident.

Keep going.

1 upvotesmaniclurker2 years ago

The problem I have with accepting stuff like this, is how often I see legitimately ugly motherfuckers with decent looking girls.

If statements like this were true, then ugly people wouldn't even exist. Their ugly-assed genes wouldn't propagate. The world would be full of super-attractive people.

1 upvotesStinkyDogFarts2 years ago

86 the feels. Stick to your plan. Keeping working. Keep striving. Focus on the career. In 8 years you will look on this and have a laugh with the sexy lady you are dating who is your age right now. Make yourself a better person and surround yourself with better people.

1 upvotescirclhat2 years ago

Honestly I see guys who are fat, out of shape, old ugly men, score hot women, in fact these are your typical actually bad boys, not the bad boys who just have attitude, but rather bad boys who beat women, cheat on them constantly, and don't give a fuck.

Remember game > than all, any attempt to improve yourself that revolves around women is blue pill, which is acceptable to women because of course they believe they deserve the best.

However, i understand and am trying my hardest to change.

Change because you love yourself, not so you will love yourself ,it is a treadmill of self hated that will never go away.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I didnt really understand what people meant when they said change for yourself until your last line. I dont think i ever loved myself man.

I know what you mean by doing it for yourself. Instead of running a mile on a boring treadmill because i want to burn calories to be less fat to attract a girl, why not just buy that freebord i always wanted to try and walk up hills. Also i like being close to death and freebords are deathtraps which is exhilarating if i don't eat shit.

Thanks dude. Imma hit up my friend and buy his freebord.

1 upvotesSlothOnRoids2 years ago

Low body fat is king. The difference when I'm single digits vs teens is pretty drastic when it comes to the way my face looks. Been bulking and now it's time to cut up. Good luck on your quest to get lean.

1 upvoteschaosrunssociety2 years ago

Your scale doesn't express what they actually think of you, just whether or not they're going to fuck you. While it's an okay mental model in environments where you'd try to fuck women, everything eventually simplifies down to yes or no anyway, so I don't see what's so insightful about your post.

Anyway, I'm sick of these simplistic misogynist posts. There really is a difference between understanding someone different from yourself so you can better interact with them and oversimplifying who they are in an attempt to more easily objectify them.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I'm new to this stuff and was in a red pill rage when i wrote it. Apologies for the low quality i was just speaking my mind.

1 upvoteschaosrunssociety2 years ago

You seem bright homie, don't throw it away to be angry.

1 upvotesKommanderdude2 years ago

As guy who has consistently dated women that make 40 to 70k more than him. I can say this is true. It's not about the size of your wallet. I currently know a lawyer that can't get laid for the life of him. He's short, weird and non dominant acting. All he talks about is his career on dates and doesn't understand why women don't want to date him.. then there is bearded blue collar me who consistently slays hb6-9 doctor and lawyer pussy. Current ltr is a lawyer. Hb7 if I'm being honest. We click so I can live with the fact she's not the hottest woman I've fucked.

1 upvotesTheManFromV2 years ago

Sweeping generalizations like this cause a shit ton of drama. Actually, so does this whole sub. Be careful about what you say. And that's not just to this sub. That's to everyone.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Yea it could have been individual factors and environmental as well. I've been thinking about it for the last couple days and i'm just not as good as I can possibly be yet and i also felt entitled to these girls because a small bit of self improvement I made in a short time. I was told I was going for girls that were too hot, and thought if I go for girls that more closely resembled me they would be thrilled, but if anything they rejected me harder. Definitely means i'm a 0 out of 1 right now.

1 upvotesTheRedStoic2 years ago




That's it. That's all there is to attraction. It's very simple and effective.

1 upvotestrex0052 years ago

Cut the brown rice and add fatty meats. Fat satiates and in the absence of carbs does not store.

Carbs = evil

Fat = good

3 upvotesepixs2 years ago

bro i know you're trying to oversimplify this but I'm sure you can appreciate the biochemistry of the body and how its not that simple. Unsaturated fats are good for you because they can be used to maximise the most amount of energy per gram. Same with carbs, brown rice is a good carb since its low on the glycemic index thus not promoting spiking of insulin vs like a poptart which is also 50g's of carbs but completly high glycemic and shit. Carb's are not evil nor is fat inherently good, it's how you utilise it with your macro's to fit your lifestyle that determines their "evil" or "good".

2 upvotesSetConsumes2 years ago

Blah blah blah.

Saturated fat and cholesterol help promote testosterone production, that is the only reason a man needs to eat more fatty meat.

Aside from that, carbs vs fat diets are completely preference and basically doesn't matter.

Take it from an actual pro http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-and-fat-controversies-part-1.html/

Then consider that the standard bodybuilding diet is low fat high carb. That's not random.

0 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

That's just pure bullshit. Fat stores when there's a surplus of calories and it does not matter if it comes from fat, carbs or protein.

2 upvotestrex0052 years ago

Can you please explain to me the chemical process of fat storing? Seems chemistry is different in our portions of the world.

Chemistry in my part of the world requires insulin and glucose to store fat.

Edited to add: this is why type 2 diabetics loose crazy amounts of weight before they are diagnosed.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Chemistry which you're talking about is so much more complicated that you really have no idea. It's not just insulin. It's not just one fucking article and now you know everything about fat loss and how it works.

This was a tightly-controlled, metabolic ward trial, which means no cheating on the diet.

For 4 consecutive weeks, 16 overweight or obese men were fed a standard American diet, quite high in carbs (50% Carbohydrate, 15 % Protein, 35% Fat).

According to the sample menu published, it included loads of refined carbs including lemonade, granola bars, pretzel sticks and sandwich bread.

Participants were then immediately switched to a very low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet (5% Carbohydrate, 15% Protein, 80% Fat) for another 4 weeks.

Both the high carb diet and the ketogenic diet were equal in calories and protein, and they had no access to any outside foods for the entire 8 week period. Participants also rode an exercise bike for 30 minutes daily.

Changes in energy expenditure, body composition and relevant blood markers were recorded each day using the gold-standard methods where possible.

After the first 4 weeks on the high carb diet, participants lost 1.1 lbs (0.5 kgs) of body fat on average.

Switching to the low carb diet for the remaining 4 weeks led to a dip in insulin levels by almost half. However, once again participants lost just 1.1 lbs of body fat.

So there was no difference between eating patterns on fat loss despite the difference in insulin, effectively disproving the carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis.

Switching to the low carb diet did cause an initial sharp decrease in total weight loss, but this was due to the drop in water weight that accompanies carb restriction.

Next study:

In a 6-week trial of 20 subjects randomly assigned to follow either a ketogenic diet (5% carbs) or a moderate carb diet (40% carbs), there was no difference in average weight loss, fat loss or insulin changes. All food and beverages were provided to participants.

If anything, strictly cutting carbs leads to less fat loss as time goes on. Subjects also reported the ketogenic diet was worse for feelings of energy and overall mood.

There was also a smaller and slightly different version of the above NuSI study, also run by Dr. Kevin Hall.

His team found a reduced carb diet (29% carbs) resulted in less fat loss than a reduced fat diet (7.7% fat). At the time, their computer model even predicted the trend seen in the latest study.

His team found a reduced carb diet (29% carbs) resulted in less fat loss than a reduced fat diet (7.7% fat). At the time, their computer model even predicted the trend seen in the latest study (4).

Although the reduced carb diet (29% carbs) was not quite “low carb”, it still lowered insulin levels considerably. Despite this change there was no fat loss advantage.

Next study:

In a series of tightly controlled clinical studies, 15 subjects were fed a diet that shifted greatly in the amount of carbs or fat it contained over a 13-week period. The calorie amount was for weight maintenance (no gain or loss), and was kept the same regardless of the carbohydrate-to fat ratio (7, 8).

This is how one subject’s weight tracked throughout the study. The first 38 days were high carb (75% carbs), the remaining were low carb (15% carbs).

The researchers concluded, “The carbohydrate-to fat ratio could vary widely with little or no alteration in the energy requirement for weight maintenance.”

Therefore, if you aren’t consuming excess calories, weight stays the same regardless of the amount of carbs you enjoy.

1 upvotesGrammarian_2 years ago

You're not being downvoted for being wrong, you're being downvoted for being a dick. I see you edited out a lot of your profanity laden insults which is a start.

TRP users just roll their eyes and downvote when people try to win by screaming obscenities.

As for the topic at hand, it is hotly debated and there are plenty of studies on both sides. Confirmation bias is a real thing. You're both probably partly right and partly wrong. Grow up.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Lol, one more smart ass who knows how to google.

I didn't say anything about downvoting. I just said that don't upvote shit like "carbs are evil" bullshit, because people do not realise that this debates are not that simple. That's all, I'm done.

1 upvotestrex0052 years ago

This sounds like an awesome study, would love a link. Though, it does not address storing additional fat.

I do understand that it is very complicated. For example, if the participants were fed their diet as a steady stream throughout the day, the body would not have ever reached the point that it was burning fat.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago


meta study

In the present meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials comparing low-carbohydrate diets with low-fat diets, we found that both diets were equally effective at reducing body weight and waist circumference. Both diets reduced participants' blood pressures, total to HDL cholesterol ratios, and total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood glucose, and serum insulin levels and raised HDL cholesterol; however, participants on low-carbohydrate diets had greater increases in HDL cholesterol and greater decreases in triglycerides but experienced less reduction in total and LDL cholesterol compared with persons on low-fat diets. These findings have important clinical and public health implications. Over the past several decades, low-fat diets have been recommended to the public for weight loss primarily because of their beneficial effects on metabolic risk factors (4). Our study suggests that low-carbohydrate diets might provide an alternative approach for weight reduction without worsening metabolic risk factors.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

When there's an excess of carbohydrates or protein in the blood, insulin is released, which in turn helps promote fatty acid synthesis and storage, which is probably where this idea comes from. As far as long term effects go, it seems to be debated, based on a quick Google search.

upvotesHotStickySemen2 years ago

I don't really know what you're trying to say.Women want status in a man.Most of the time it doesn't matter that he's 70 pounds overweight.If he is rich then they will have a higher chance of settling with him.Yes,a good physique will make you more attractive,but in the long term women want status.

10 upvotestirmanadir2 years ago

Women won't be attracted to you for your wealth. She'll just let you be her beta bux.

2 upvotesLateralanouncer2 years ago

I was talking to a woman in a club about who she allows to fuck her. Basically after the initial attraction eye contact then a free drink. If he had money the next step was for him to take her out on date (no sex) quote "I would choose the most expensive location". If he had no money she would quote "just fuck him" and move on.

2 upvotestirmanadir2 years ago

Exactly, she admitted she'd fuck him but she wouldn't stick around, because she wants beta bux. So in that case the ideal is NOT to bring her to an expensive occasion if you want to pump and dump. And even if you're looking for an LTR, a gold-digger is not a good candidate.

2 upvotesLandry862 years ago

70 lb... I dunno about that!


1 upvotesanon1moos2 years ago

Being physically attractive helps, but it is very far from the whole story. Acting attractive is 9/10 of being attractive. If you think looks are all that matters, there is a different subreddit for that.

1 upvotestheroyalham2 years ago

Umm..no. You're just below a 3, hence your belief of it being either 1 or 0. Girls aren't computers.

1 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

Damn i was thinkin i was a 4. Harsh bro.

1 upvotesmaggieG422 years ago

Oh I understand now women needed to be sexually attracted to a male before she will want to have a relationship with him.

This is of course different to males.

2 upvotes • [deleted] • 2 years ago

I wasnt taught the same thing as you, buddy. I was supposed to be arranged 👍🏾👌🏾

-1 upvotesYeezus_MAGA2 years ago

Not all girls are like this

3 upvotesItsNotShane2 years ago

deleted What is this?

0 upvotesplutosheen2 years ago

Honestly that's how I view women too so I don't think it's unique to them. More 0s than 1s though.

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