Original Article.
An article recently came out lamenting that a larger number of women were incurring student loan debt and that debt was larger per capita among women than men. It is based on a report (click this, the graphs are worth looking at) by the “American Association of University Women.” Certainly this sounds like a factually unreliable organization with an obvious agenda. However, their findings are broadly in line with what I would expect from my own research. Of course, the Forbes article is filled with a lot of ideological garbage blaming the patriarchy, racism, and the mythical wage gap. Feel free to read the article at the first link, but the only really useful information is the numbers.
- 56% of all college enrollments in the fall of 2016 were women.
- 833 billion dollars of the 1.3 trillion dollars of American student loan debt is owed by women. This is approximately 64.1% of student loan debt.
- At the end of a bachelor’s degree, women have on average about 1500 dollars more debt than men.
- Women on average take about 2 years longer than men to pay off their debt.
- Women earn about 20% less than men 5 years after receiving their bachelor’s.
- Within four years of graduation, men had paid on average 38% of their debt vs. 31% for women.
It is interesting that women are over-represented in incurring debt relative to their overall presence at universities. Possible explanations include affirmative action placement at more expensive schools, better scholarship opportunities for serious degrees which are male dominated, or male workforce participation during college years, which enables them to take on less debt. Or something else.
More women are taking on more debt, earning less, and taking longer to pay that debt back. I really have no trouble believing this is true. Unlike the Forbes writer, I don’t believe it has anything to do with patriarchy or gender discrimination. Biologically based gender differences can explain approximately the totality of the differences in outcomes here. For one thing, men have an innate superiority in visuospatial reasoning which makes them tend towards harder sciences, engineering, and computer science which more usually offer a higher wage. This makes it easier to pay back loans regardless of price. The following is a brief excerpt the book, Smart and Sexy which discusses in great detail the intelligence differences in intelligence. There is of course much more detail and information in the book about this topic.
If a closer look is taken at the specific degrees women are receiving the picture isn’t quite as rosy as is often implied. To be sure, men also succumb to pursuing essentially worthless degrees, but they do so at a lesser rate than women and since the absolute number of men pursing college degrees is less, the problem is quantitatively less severe even when they do. Some of the most common degrees women are getting, such as business, health, and biological sciences, do make them more employable and socially valuable. Most, however, are notorious for conferring little value in the job market and can be expected not to improve income significantly. Among the top ten most common subjects studied by women as undergraduates are education, social science, psychology, visual and performing arts, communications, liberal arts and humanities, and English. Graduate studies which can also be expected to produce less or no human capital and do not confer much in the way of high income also seem to be much more attractive to women than men. The following tables show the graduate degree paths that are dominated by women (i.e., 50% or more of the students are female) and men respectively, as well as the average GRE score for each major.
Graduate level fields dominated by women
The proportion of women in the ten graduate programs with the lowest GRE score
The male percentage of the top ten graduate programs by GRE score
All of the degree paths examined by the particular study and found to be female dominated are included. A number of these paths are essentially just “professionally” training women to be mothers or surrogate mothers of children. Elementary and early childhood education sticks out in this regard, though probably all of the education paths do this to one degree or another. How anyone could possibly think it is necessary for women to have expensive post-tertiary degrees to watch young children play is hard to understand. Women have been watching young children successfully without any education for millennia before this farce was introduced at universities. Other degree paths which seem particularly useless include English and foreign literature, art history, home economics (i.e., how to be a housewife; where is grandma when you need her?), and student counseling. Disciplines which in theory might be useful if properly designed, such as psychology, sociology, and anthropology, have the problem of being almost totally infested and controlled by people with very radical, far-left ideologies. Considering how far these ideologies force these areas of study away from realistic understandings of reality, their utility is heavily undermined. Though the study this table comes from does not provide information on the relative number of women pursuing each field, it does provide a general idea of the type of degrees women are more attracted to than men in post-tertiary education.
Another issue making it difficult for women to pay back their debt is that on average they prefer working significantly less hours than men. Again, from Smart and Sexy:
A study which tracked high ability men and women found that there are large gender differences in the preference for number of work hours per week even after controlling for the high general intelligence prerequisite. Those who prefer to work 40 hours a week or less are overwhelmingly female, and those who work or would be willing to work over 50 hours a week are overwhelmingly male. The preferences found in this study are supported by US department of labor statistics. 26% of working women were part-time in 2011, which is twice the rate of men.
Hours worked per week by gender
Now to ease up on “blaming women” a bit, we can look at the overall pattern of college debt. According to the AAUW report, for both genders, the accumulated student loan debt by the time of graduation increased by approximately 30% between 2004 and 2012; a mere 8 years!!! And it is probably even worse in 2017. Women may overall be more prone to bad decisions, but it would be a lie to say that this is the only important factor involved or that large numbers of men aren’t also making bad decisions with respect to education. Universities are churning out an increasing number of people with useless qualifications and exponentially increasing the cost of these degrees at the same time. Meanwhile, high schools, parents, counselors, media, etc are all highly encouraging both men and women to incur this ridiculous debt for these worthless credentials. Let’s not forget that the people expected to competently make financial decisions with respect to education are only 18 years old. 18 year olds are understandably not experienced nor well-read enough to be expected to make good decisions without proper support and good guidance from elders, which they are decidedly not getting. If I were assign blame with respect to the higher education farce, I would probably only assign 20-30% to the naïve kids being duped. The lion’s share of blame belongs to the propagandists and liars in the media and education who are willfully scamming kids out of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I had a female friend ask me for help with figuring out why ushe was falling financially behind. I asked her how big her credit card balances were. She said about $10,000. I had her go online and look them up.
$28,000.
I know a lot of women in their mid-twenties and early 30s. It amazes me how they spend money like water. Almost EVERY freaking day they are out drinking or eating out in general. Going to happy hour at some bar during the week, eating at a bar or restaurant during the week. Weekends? Go out drinking at bars and clubs FRI/SAT nights. Sundays? Brunch.
This is not including the money they spend on makeup, clothes, and spas. Then add their normal expenses like rent, car loans and groceries (that they rarely eat).
Just looking from the outside, one would think these people are rich, but they all make 50-60k and less.
I worked at a bank as a personal banker and most women had like $200 in their accounts (being really nice here) and more money on credit cards.
$28,000 on credit cards is just being stupid and irresponsible. Especially if they are in their 20s
Describes my friend to a T. She also had student loans.
Gotta go out and buy some self love every weekend, hahaha.
S/
Otherwise she'll feel bad being fiscally responsible and feeling bad for any reason is literally the worst thing ever
/s
Agreed. I date many of these educated women in my mid 30s.
I shit you not, they will be desperately looking for a guy as the wall approaches and after a few dates, I will learn that they have no savings, yet still have both credit card and possibly school loans.
So we will be chatting about what she wants in the future: typical marriage, house in the burbs, and kids, and lots of exotic travel.
The problem with that is we live in a very high COL area: homes here are at least $500k, typical wedding $50k, private schools, etc.
It's like I couldn't pay for all of this even if I wanted do (I don't). These women will be living with cats and roommates for the rest of their lives.
Not if captain-save-a-hoe marries them.
Most betas are interested in younger pussy and shell the bucks out. They are highly discriminatory against older woman. A 34yo woman will not have the pull power over the male population anymore. Betas with a significant income are led to the slaughterhouse of marriage quite fast. So, as many already pointed out, to luck out at the pussy lottery she has to make it or break it in her college years.
I agree and I would say this is true for myself. But I know some guys who are nerdy and inexperienced enough with women that a post-wall woman could reel them in. I worry for them.
The vacations kill me the most. I know a girl that will fly from her city to another city almost every weekend. But the other city is almost the same as the city she lives in but never explores
damn, thinking about all of this, like my recent comment.
women racking up debt and being financially retarded.
combined with men dropping out if it did happen massively, the government would almost have to force us to marry or give very high taxes to men like it's talked about here.
also economy collapsing and all that, the world would realize how financially stupid most(I know some smart, but most stupid asf) wymnz are and almost have to make them property if the government didn't force us to marry like above
Leasing and buying both have their pros and cons. I prefer leasing. In fact, I just picked up a new car last month. Of course, I just wrote them a check for the entire lease so all I need to do is bring the car back in three years. These women won't have the means to do that.
The only time I've seen leasing make sense financially is if it's a business expense which can be deducted and you need something that implies financial success (i.e. sales guy, real estate agent).
The real problem with leases is that they're almost always for brand new cars. New cars are rarely a good choice.
I always buy the three year old, low milage lease right after you return it, and I get it for about half price.
For me it was. I gave the man a check for $30k and he gave me the key fob.
Your strategy is a sensible one. I'll set a reminder to offer you my auto in two years, eleven months.
Buying in cash is rarely the right choice. That 30k could've made you more money than the interest you would pay back on the loan. Unless you are horrible at investing, it's always better to get a low interest loan and keep your cash and invest and make more money.
You cant just buy a car for $30k? It'd last longer then 3 years and you wont have to give it back.
I'm not sure how leasing worked out in your case.
they don't care because eventually billy beta will take care of their financial woes. you'd do the same if some loser would bail you out too
Now you know why feminism is popular, whatever women want, businesses and marketing follows. Women are the consumers, women spend the money, not just their money but also the dudes money. Dudes spend money for chicks too.
For most women, their idea of doing ANYTHING involves spending money. To be fair, on this one it's for many men as well. People increasingly have less hobbies and social groups for those. For most people the idea of socializing almost always involves going out to eat, for drinks, activities, etc. The difference is that women have a greater variety of things catered to them to spend on. Blame the patriarchy for tempting women with all these things!
sounds like the collapse is sooner rather than later. save up money to buy in from these idiots when shtf
even more if more and more men stop marrying so they don't have to pay off mmladys debt(doubt it), it will be the economy and tons of other problems. have money ready to profit m8
back in my bluepill days, was dating this girl who went and got a masters in loser-for-life. even i wasn't dumbcucked enough to get that deep with her. she was working a shitty dead-end office job for under $40k in a major city. 3 roommates in a shit part of town, no car, and 100% of her income went to rent + minimum interest payments on her student loans and credit cards. she wasn't even paying down the principle. she had $150k in student debt, and over 20k in credit card debt (that she'd admit to) and climbing... and because she had no money after rent + interest payments, she was doing all her spending on credit cards (daily starbucks, lunch out with the girls at the local trendy salad cafes), never paying down the principle. her field is unemployable in most of the country and poorly employable in large expensive cities, so it's not likely she can even move out of the expensive city.
women want to play the game of life competing alongside and against men. they will never be able to compete unless, like men, they face the consequences of their shitty decisions. these women have lived the bulk of their lives with female privilege (aka "lack of agency"), everything handed to them on a silver platter, with no consequences for their shitty actions. and then suddenly they do something financially reckless like run up insane amounts of non-dischargeable debt to acquire useless degrees, and for the first time in their lives, the world finally doesn't give them the pussy pass. and since they spent so much time going to school pursuing shitty careers, they're now post-wall independent wymunz, and they're unable to attract anyone but the most cucked betas.
this girl in particular is now deeply post-wall and still single. she incessantly posts to facebook about her cats, which she can't afford, and how much she hates trump. unless she marries a rich man who pays off everything, or her parents bail her out, she will fall into poverty until she dies, and she'll die in debt.
this is what happens when the government backs loans without any respect for the borrower's ability to pay that loan back.
But she's saving money! It was all on sale!
I had a female acquaintance once ask me why men weren't sticking around. I only needed to ask one question: What kind of car do you drive.
"A Mercedes, but they gave me such a good deal I HAD to buy it."
Yep. There's your answer.
good
do your due diligence and know your customer they say in banking
I always do a background check before inviting anybody to my home
at least in my country is cheap and easy to do it, dont know in USA
the credit score of a person tells a lot about them, specially if they are up the neck in debt
The hottest girl I've ever been with (I'm talking a legit 9.5 she was a Tempe 12 model not TRP 9.5) I went out with a couple times. We banged on date 3.
We're laying in bed and she let out that she was 200k in debt. She was a history major finishing up her last semester. Was gonna get an MBA.
I was like you better join the FBI girlfriend because you are fucked. I think she actually might have come to think of it.
Half the women I met at university were going for the "Mrs." degree.
Is that a degree that works off her future husbands?
The degree is irrelevant, she is going to college to meet a guy and marry him.
The smart thing is that they are landing guys that have real degrees
Gotta admit, there are certainly far worse ways for a woman to go about finding herself a husband.
as long as she understands that she needs to do the finding... bc more and more men aren't looking.
Best part is that it's getting harder and harder to find a quality man willing to marry.
Exactly. What would you do as a father? Would you want your daughter to stay in her home town, or go to college? Most fathers know that college is a safe haven Segway - An escalator to men that are marriage material. I for one wouldn't want my daughter to go to community college, only to get pumped and dumped by guy after guy, because that's what I did and I'm an asshole.
Well, being as I'm in the Rocket City and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a rocket scientist or other engineer, I'd be fine keeping a daughter nearby for college. Lotsa thirsty beta types making bank for her to choose from.
The main factor in the pump and dump scenario is a low quality woman. Community College and University will not affect the pump and dump significantly. It just depends on what kind of daughter one raises to begin with...
as long as she understands that she needs to do the finding... bc more and more men aren't looking.
I was in grad school last year and our professor was kind of goofy. He made a slide show to tell us about himself and his life.
During the slide show he talked about his daughter going to college.
He said his happiest moment was not seeing her daughter graduate, but "finding a man."
Not even joking. Everyone in the class was laughing, but the more I thought about that quote, the more I began to realize that, that's what a lot of women try and do once they go to college.
You hit the nail on the head bud. It's make or break for these girls in college, and the more single they become the more desperate they get.
After getting degrees themselves it makes it easier for them to tell everyone they want a guy on their level weeding out the "non educated". Getting a guy who has more earning potential is just a lucky coincidence.
Yup, about half the women at my engineering college just wanted to find some guy who would eventually be rich and marry him, they definitely had little to no aptitude nor a single care in the world for the subject they were studying.
two of my classmates fucked the professor to pass one of our engineering classes... so (some) women will do whatever it takes, i guess.
I mean, wouldn't you fuck your professor as well to get a passing grade?
If she's hot enough I'll try to fuck her anyways.
deleted What is this?
but then how did they manage to succeed that the subject theyre studying? dont you need passion and interest to succeed? or did they just drop out?
When you go to an engineering college, the ratio of guys to girls is about 60% to 40%, which means there's no shortage of loser white knights who want to rescue m'lady fair from the horrors of having to complete homework and projects on their own. All the girls have to do is promise to spend some time with those losers and they'll do all the work for the girls without batting an eyelid.
My brother got thrown out of a facebook group and is hated by many people in his courses, because he snitched on the white knights and lazy bitches to the university that they were "helping" each other that way.
Really? What Engjneering College is that ? My course is about 90 percent male. Never seen that many girls in any engineering.
My school was about 90/95% male.
My school was officially 65/35% when I started and by the time I graduated it was about 60/40%, Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Your school, or your major?
Right then. On the Do Not Hire list.
Yes. We keep those.
You get someone else to help you, get your tutor to raise your marks because of patriarchal oppression, and if that doesn't work you sleep with him and blackmail him.
Colleges aren't going to fail women just because they can't do the work - that would be sexist.
Tons of colleges in the USA will pass almost anyone. You just go to "rateMyprofessor.com" and ask around what professors to avoid (the indians and Chinese).
Pick the right professor and all you have to do is DISPLAY that you are trying to learn, such as be active in class, do all the assignments and show up. You can get C's on every test or even D's and lots of professors will curve the grades boosting you one letter grade higher.
My point is, as long as you pick the right professor, its hard not to fail.
In some schools, some engineering (or any other STEM field) classes are nothing but group work. So you won't even have to take a test. Just write a paper and do well in your group presentation and you pass the class.
This is how a lot of women are getting good degrees (or anyone). College is a fucking joke now. At my grad school, you would have to be an idiot to fail. Seriously, take home test where you could google answers and shit. Not even lying.
Again this depends on the program, but if you have a program where you see 40% of the class being women (excluding asian), then you know its a shit program. There are some decent programs out there, but most colleges are a complete joke. They just want your money.
LOL bro that's spot on. Every indian or Chinese professor I had was so fucking hard. College is a joke, seriously. That's all I did was fake it to make it. I showed up early for class, did all the work and studied hard for the tests. I did really good on my tests though and made mostly A's. Still though, It's so true. If you look around the class and half are female, get ready for a smooth semester!
'Yeah dude I studied super hard and attended everything and passed??? College is a joke lol'
I met my college girlfriend in a finance class we had together. The course was graded on a midterm, final, and several group projects. We were in the same group, so we had identical grades for the projects. I saw her midterm and I beat her handily. At the end of the semester we only saw our final grade (we often didn't get to see our actual final exam in class) and she had a B+ and I had a B-.
I was enraged, and almost certain that the professor had given her some help because she would have to crush me on the final to get that much better of a grade in the class when I had beaten or tied her on everything else. I had also detected this weird over-friendliness from him towards her but didn't really think anything of it earlier in the semester. I didn't do anything because we had just started dating and I didn't want to fuck it up. And what was I going to do, demand to see both of our finals? He would've just said he can't discuss another student's grades.
Goddamn I was angry though. If it happened to my current self I probably would've demanded to see my final, then asked her to also independently check her final. I bet I could've fucking caught him and gotten him in trouble.
All you need is the right person's approval.
I knew girls starting in high school, up through college, and in my professional life that got through on their feminine charms.
One of the girls I fucked in college got through a semester of a public speaking course and only went to class twice.
because she was so good or the standard is so low .... ?
Because she fucked the professor.
Also remember in the long run the uni's making bank on them so its in their best interest to keep students in for as long as possible.
schools dont care if you try, they just wanna take your money. pass em through, enter the next round of students and do the same
I read an article back around 2007-2009ish that discussed a study of women in graduate school. The article claimed that 30% of women surveyed stated that their primary purpose for attending grad school was to find a husband. Damn, I'd give my neighbor's left arm to be able to find that study or article again.
i had a discussion with a group of females and we both agreed that spending money on plastic surgery was a better option than attending a shitty college for a worthless major.
Better option to achieve what goal? Divorce statistics indicate that there is an inverse relationship between level of education and incident of divorce, saying that pairs of highly educated people are less likely to get divorced.
So if their goal is to have a stable marriage, studies and statistics seem to indicate that going after that graduate degree is at least correlated with achieving that goal.
never said their goal was stable marriage- its simply to get married. women are hypergamous and will want out eventually anyway.
I can't tell you the number of girls I've had sex with who have studied/are studying/want to study criminology ie they want to be close to aggressive males. Women are so fucking transparent.
It's comparable to the girls sending pin up photos to mass murderers. Basic common sense is rare.
"They're going for the big D and I don't mean degree." - Mark Chestnutt
this does not surprise me at all... in this day and age where do people meet?
either at work or school.
Can you blame them? This sub is about sexual strategy for men, the Mrs degree works for women. Capitalize on their value at its height and lockdown a lower SMV (at the time) guy in engineering or pre med school
Saw some women do this, not many by any means, and it seems to work well for em.
Not sure if anyone caught this from the "Fair Pay Act" that they're proposing at the bottom of the link...
The Fair Pay Act offers an additional set of solutions aimed at curbing occupational segregation. By requiring employers to provide equal pay for work of equal value, *whether or not the jobs are the same*, this legislation addresses equal pay for women and men working in female-dominated jobs that are objectively rated equivalent to jobs traditionally dominated by men
Wow
You know how that would really work? Businesses would keep doing what they're doing, but hire an outside consultant to do the paperwork to justify it according to the new regulations.
Paid to be lazy, the end goal of socialism.
Women spend more money on useless crap.
Men will make a table out of bricks and a plank, women have to have a posh table, and it has to be new.
Women buy expensive brand-name heavily-marketed shampoo and then complain their products cost more than men's. Rather than buying men's shampoo or generics.
Women rack up debts knowing that Mr Billy Beta Bucks will absorb her debt into his earnings when they marry.
Women are more likely to go for bullshit degrees like women's studies, Art or History of the Oppression of Menstruating Native Indians 1853-187. Men are more likely to go for something that helps them get a job.
If you want to avoid debt, don't borrow. If you want a well paid career, study something useful.
Hey brah, don't rip on the History of Native Menstruating Indians 1853-1877. That was my favorite fucking class, learned a lot.
Show some respect.
That course is why I spend 45 minutes out of each day flagellating my penis with barbed wire. I only wish I had more time to do it, but I have to go and earn money to pay into the female collective and sometimes the blood dripping from my pants threatens my job.
lol it's hilarious how the cycle works. the shampoo is more expensive for wymnz because their stupider to pay more
since they're stupider to pay more shampoo companies know they can charge more
Not just that, but they won't buy "normal" supermarket women's shampoo, they'll buy fancy hairdresser shit and then complain
Damn Right! Bachelors in CS, and I'm about to ship off into the Marine Corp! Stingy as hell too.
Im young and i have a few years to save. I already have $600 so far. And my own car, new, a 2016 model, but cheap. Cost about $12,000.
I got this.
I racked up some debt, riding out the Great Recession in college. I told a buddy I was considering philosophy, to which he replied "That's great, that way you'll KNOW why you don't have a job." Went with mathematics, have a good job.
I do think little girls are not done any favors by assuming they can't learn math. They can. But it's clearly not "patriarchy" in the classroom, dominated by female teachers, that's the problem.
A female cousin racked up the same level of debt as me, in fine arts. She's basically wiping asses for a living, and bitterly resentful towards me because I have a good job. I add value, bitch.
It's insane, though, that loans are offered so broadly without respect to major. They helped me turn my career around, and that's the only reason loans should be available, to help people obtain education that moves society forward.
The thing that pisses me off is all art degrees are essentially a scam. I'm a working artist, and the one thing they don't teach you in art school is the business of art, merely how to make it, though with all the conceptual bullshit they don't even do that now.
I tell all the young artists I meet to grab an associates in business and marketing (or learn that shit online like I did), and get a job working with people early. Essential skills if you don't want to wipe asses for a living in this profession.
Most artists I've talked to believe in the labor theory of value, that the time they put into a piece somehow increases the value. Nope. That's just not how it works. It's all about supply and demand.
Incidentally, that's where Marxism is wrong, too. At its base is the labor theory of value.
Content is king. It takes talent to create valuable content. You can't teach talent.
I'm no philosopher but it seems like common sense would tell us that there is no inherent value in labor itself. Consider the guy digging a hole in the ground, then filling it back in, then digging it out again, day after day. Where's the value? The only thing I can think of is that so long as he's occupied he won't be causing trouble.
Valuable content is content people are willing to pay for. It sure takes talent to create content, but experience can replace talent, and talent doesn't teach the people and business skills to understand what people will be willing to pay for
The only truth in business is what the customer wants to buy and how much he is willing to pay for it.
The idea is that when you pick an apple, you've added value to the apple because someone else can eat it. If your boss pays you less than the mark up on the apple, he's "alienated you from the fruits of your labor."
...and the old "...see that guy over there, digging the hole, filling it up, then digging it again? Yeah, don't be that guy.."
I asked my dentist about that because he essentially runs a business with a partner and about 10-15 employees. He agreed that dentist school should have covered running a small business but didn't. I don't recall, but he may have learned from his father or taken the initiative to study that aspect of the job on his own. He agrees that it's critical to success in the field.
Just about all the most important things in life aren't taught in any school:
Pretty sure you learn to handle money as an accounting or finance major.
Sure, but everyone else also deals with money. How come school doesn't teach everyone how to budget, how to save money, to avoid credit cards, and more importantly that compounding interest means you should open a savings account as young as possible.
Why should we teach anyone those skills? We need garbage men, men who die in wars etc to maintain society. Without leverage there can't be rulers and ruled.
Garbage men and soldiers don't need to go to school. But you're still right about society being shaped by the elites: School was invented to create a specialized workforce for urban factories, and these indeed don't need to learn how to budget or keep healthy.
I have two degrees in the field (heh) of agriculture from a very well known state university. The capstone class for that program wasn't even an ag class; it was a business and management class. The existence of that class alone pushes that school over the top of so many others.
This isn't necessarily so, but you have to work your ass off and generally get a PHD and do real research to have a chance. And even then, mostly in niche areas such as History or archaeology.
You can do it, even with degrees like Philosophy, but the amount of work required is way beyond what most people who actually get these degrees are actually willing to do.
That seems completely back asswards to me. Like the one thing they SHOULD teach is the business of art.
The kind of people who are into doing art studies aren't the kind who are good at, or willing, to learn how to deal with money and people. Just about every artist I meet fits that pattern and those few artists I meet who don't are the successful ones.
Seriously if anyone reading this is into business, associate with a couple artists to help them in exchange for a %
Oh, I don't doubt it, there's a reason for the phrase "starving artist" ha ha.
It's a losing proposition to be in a profession (if you can call it that) where the product of your efforts is more valuable after you die.
My thinking is there is no problem with arts education but it isn't for the masses. It should be reserved for elite students who have an interest in it.
A society needs a lot of plumbers and doctors and engineers. Even if you aren't th top of your field, you can still provide value in those kinds of jobs. But what value is being provided by a third rate intellectual?
Yep.
Instead, they keep hammering it into your head that you can be the next Picasso/Rothko/Warhol along with all the other "follow your dreams" sort of 'advice'
I majored in English. Figured I wasn't going to get a decent job in my second year. Started dabbling online and learned some marketing. Freelanced through college and went full-time after graduation.
Now I have three employees and sometimes have to turn down clients.
There is no excuse for being "unemployable" anymore. I learned marketing and a decent bit of coding through experience and free online resources.
"I add value, bitch" 😂👌🏽 I'm going to borrow that..
Funny enough I'm in a similar situation. Studied philosophy for a year and now switching to a math degree with a computer science track. Did you do applied or pure math? And what do you do now? I've got a few STEM major friends that tell me I'm better off just doing computer science but I think that having the math degree adds value that many computer science degrees can't. Your take on that?
I went with stats and am a technical analyst for a renewable energy consultancy.
To math and computer science, find something you love to apply those things to......the "data science Venn diagram" you need math, computing, and expertise in some field.
Don't do what I did and not collaborate on Stackoverflow.
I know this belongs on AskTRP, but do you have any bits of advice for an incoming college frosh who doesn't know what he wants to major in?
STEM or business. If business, don't go with marketing or business management or someshit. Lean towards stats, accounting, finance, or even business information systems (I recommend this one).
If STEM isn't your thing, then go for business. Avoid communication majors, history, art and all that other bullshit
STEM bro. I'm Math with a CS minor. I'm planning to go to law school but really I can do business, education, tech, etc. I'm set and I don't reaaallly have to decide for a while
I've heard this from many. So basically a STEM degree=options to different but powerful careers and/or opportunities?
Yep.
Software engineer here. Worked in tech, legal, healthcare, and finance.
You can do whatever you want because technology runs the world.
Engineering (except environmental), tech (like computer science), or at worst accounting (NO other business major). Don't study a hard/pure science unless you want to get a PhD. And certainly avoid the dumb bullshit majors discussed in the main post. If you don't want to major in one of the fields I listed, or in other words you don't want to do math, then stay out of college. Learn a trade (nothing wrong with that and your work can't be outsourced). The debt isn't worth a useless degree or "the college experience" (just go to local parties if that's what you're into).
finance and MIS you'll end up with a job. really, engineering and CS are your best bets. most everything else- you better have connections/low debt or its quite the gamble
^ don't listen to this guy
environmental engineering is a good option.
Align your goals with economic realities.
That's the right answer here.
You gotta work backwards: find a job type you would enjoy, which pays well & that has a future. Only then work out the minimum amount of studies you need to get that job.
I suggest STEM major. Biology related stuff is great. Chemistry might be a tad uninteresting to some people but once you get into the harder field (o-chem) it becomes extraordinarily fun.
Additionally, since you are in your first year..I STRONGLY suggest just taking GE. NOTHING but GE your first year until you figure out what you want to do. If all else fails, take some intro to "x" classes like general chem or general biology and see if you can pass those classes. They're very hard, but also very rewarding.
Biology and Chemistry has terrible job prospects except if you want to be a research wage-slave making $7 an hour with a 200K price for education.
I ADD VALUE, BITCH! -/u/Judo_ftw
It is not a stupid scam. It is better to milk a poor person for 3% minimum interest on the principal every year for the rest of their lives than financing a future rainmaker who pays off 60% in the first year on the job.
Out of interest, what kind of jobs can you get with a maths degree? I don't have any friends that went that route, so I'm intrigued what options there are outside of research.
I chose perhaps the most widely applicable sub discipline, probability & statistics. The renewable energy consultancy jumped first, so I went for it. I was a finalist for a job doing data analysis for a law firm (representing employers, I'd have had to shower in Clorox but I'd have taken it), doing natural gas analysis, search engine optimization, and natural language processing for an online educational outfit.
The more automation that goes on, the more important it will be to be a problem solver. That was what drove me to the major, and nothing I've seen since contradicts the idea.
Awesome, thanks for the information! Your last statement rings incredibly true.
This is going to keep snowballing into even higher levels of unhappiness for women. Which means more blaming. Freedom of choice comes with a price.
Jordan Peterson has some great videos that touch on the burden of choice, and also some great videos about the big lie that is being told to young women: that a career is the main goal in life. Now, he diverges off and makes a point about the importance of children and marriage, but his main point is that the majority of people do not have careers, they have jobs. The latter of course does not add significant meaning to one's life.
He has examples from his clinical work where law firms find it impossible to retain their top level female lawyers. Why? Because by 35 they realize that working 90+ hour weeks and not having a family is soul-crushing -- regardless of the pay. They typically are married to high power male lawyers who are pulling in 250k+, so why bother working anymore?
Feminists don't know this because they aren't the lawyers, the doctors, etc. They're just getting degrees in women's studies. If they actually wanted to "fix the imbalance" -- as they perceive it -- they would, themselves, strive to be lawyers and doctors. But it's so much easier to point the finger, do none of the work, and reap all of the benefits.
In fact, while feminists are asking: "why are there less women in high power careers", what they should be asking is "why is any man willing to do it at all". It's not easy, no matter what gender you are; but men are more prone to finding meaning in their lives by striving for hard shit that most soft people can't even fathom. A lot of them are hard asses who find the money is a secondary goal; what they really live for is the feeling of conquering their profession. Men have been conquering since the dawn of time, it's natural. It's not all cigar smoking and relaxing at the top; and if it is then they've already put the vast majority of their life to attain that level.
sources:
Degree and gre scores:
Templar, tomeo (2002) Mean graduate record examination (gre) score and gender distribution as function of academic discipline. Personality and individual differences. volume 32, issue 1, 5 january 2002, pages 175-179
Work hour preferences:
Lubinski, D., Benbow, C. P. (2006). Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth after 35 years: Uncovering antecedents for the development of math-science expertise. Perspectives on Psychological Science, 1, 316-345
Not just for degrees. When I first got together, my SO had racked up 10k by 23... And never went to school. People are fiscally irresponsible to begin with, women just seem to be worse.
Probably because theres always a man to bail her out. It's a hard lesson for men to learn if they don't treat it with the due importance.
I'm still kinda salty about the bubble tea I bought a girl for $1.50 one year later. Who the hell has $10K lying around to pay off someone's debt?
Where are you getting bubble tea for 1.50. Thats a good deal.
You're right, I think it was more like $3. Got it in Ann Arbor.
I'm studying for the LSAT at the moment and was considering applying to Michigan Law School (Ann Arbor). You convinced me with the cheap bubble tea.
Cheap? The price doubled rather quickly.
Only place I've seen it that cheap was Chinatown in SF. And even then it was probably $2.00.
Lowest I've found is still $2.50 in SF.
Probably depends on how hole-in-the-wall of a place and how many years ago it was. For me it was in 2015.
I'm not a poor man.
On the flip side, parents have paid me back, in spades. Since I learned to stop paying for her to keep fucking up, my warchest has grown exponentially
I'm from a working class family (now upper middle class I'd say) with a very cheap dad. His cheapness rubbed off on me big time. Also I'm a college student so I'm pretty broke.
Stay the college course. Do not deviate.
College is sweet. Learn cool stuff and drink a fuck ton. Def not giving this up.
Achievement unlocked: Validation from Stoney
I'm in my second year studying aerospace engineering. I roll my eyes every time I hear someone with a degree in psychology complain about their student loan debt...but then again, if we don't have psych majors, who will teach the new un in coming psych majors.
Graduated with a Psych degree, got a job as a data analyst. Psychology teaches a lot about research, data and the like. Most women studying the subject are quite vocal about hating the only thing that makes Psychology a viable field of study. (Statistics)
Would you have been better of majoring in stats or an applied mathematics field with a minor in some social science instead ?
Hindsight being 20/20, yes it would have. But I was a little late to the love for math train so if I wanted to finish in 4 years I had to pick something easier. The debt incurred by staying an extra year or two was not something I wanted. (I had a hard cap of 50k total debt since I was paying by myself.
I'm actually doing an SA in Math (actuarial) and a PoliSci minor currently. Figured it'd be much more useful than Psych.
I think you touchedon an overlooked fact. Men are more willing to take jobs outside of their major. My job has nothing to do with my major, but money talks
Its not a viable field of study. You are deluding yourself and others
I would have to politely disagree with your assessment. It seems that we have different operational definitions of "viable".
Yes my definition is based on 'likelihood of obtaining meaningful employment relative to other degrees of similar cost and effort'. Yours is based on delusion.
That's a pretty vague and meaningless definition. Perhaps you should've taken a Psych or Biology research course which would have helped you define things for your audience. But I digress.
Of course you digress, you're living in delusion. Good luck brah
As psychology is a very easy major to accomplish, what degree with similar effort (and cost) would get you more money or better employment?
Honestly, I respect many psychologists. The ones I know are genuinely trying to help people with mental health issues, and they are always booked. Even more so than doctors.
Having said that, I think there's too many idiots studying psychology. They either are doing it because they think it's easy, a way to get into social services (where the don't have to do shit if they don't want to), or declared that their major because they didn't know what else to do.
Get that chip off your shoulder. Worry about your life, try not to compare yourself to others. They are adults, made their own decisions. Plenty of unemployable engineers because they lack the basic abilities to communicate with other humans.
The engineers at my place of employment are loathed for this reason.
You can be very succesful as a psychologist in the US. You only have to be Jewish. The most famous psychologists were Jews because psychology is bollocks and is basically lies sold to people as science, something that Jews are very capable of.
lol dude you gotta cut this irrational Jew hatred man. It's pretty spergy
Early childhood education is objectively useless? Elementary school teaching is objectively useless? Special education is objectively useless? Social work? (As a child of foster care homes, I very much disagree that this work is objectively unimportant). They don't pay shit, that's for sure. Of course, 'the patriarchy' isn't a decent answer to this problem, if you consider it a problem, but society at large does demonstrate what it values by what it pays jobs of a certain industry. Those jobs are not very valued, though they impact people's quality of life substantially. Couldn't we ask ourselves what makes these jobs invaluable, in our society? Is it not in part because they are seen as unimportant, unskilled, and largely women's work?
The degrees are worthless because they cost too much and don't confer much benefit to the actual work. Especially if you are going all the way to the tertiary level. Obviously young children need to be looked after. You shouldn't need to go through 4-8 years of "well-rounded" (i.e. sit through courses extraneous to what you are actually going to do) and go into massive debt to take care of young kids, or handicapped people, or various other things.
ofc, a hot girl could marry after high school
This is a MSM article but it articulates the problem within its own lines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/upshot/rise-in-marriages-of-equals-and-in-division-by-class.html?_r=0
Many people today are equal (tm) in their marriages, mostly intellectually equal. Which translates basically in: Men marry within their own class out of divorce rape fear. Since one's own class right out of college, in the marriage years, is not determined by cultural eg. caste or establishment or financial class but by academic credentials.
Which heightens the need for a Ms. Degree. Now even for a lower middle-class man a Ms. Degree is needed as he will not marry the Walmart greater anymore, due to equality and the abundance of cheap pussy. Ironically, even if a woman can sport a degree she has still to qualify on the 1-10 scale, as having a degree is not special or even elevating anymore. So more BS degrees it is.
I am reasonably confident that a pretty, house-oriented young girl can easily catch a succesfull man in his thirties even without an high school diploma, so long as she doesnt show obviously red flags like debt or addictions. Especially if she is willing to sign a pre-nup.
This is basically what I did.
Zero red flags. Is more than attractive enough to me. Drama is still gonna be there but day & night less issues.
She would have to be absolutely smoking hot to close that kind of deal.
I think too many people carry the perception that smoking hot girls are rare for some reason, even though selective breeding and the hormones in school lunches are churning them out at an uncomfortable rate.
I think the rest of us are just meeting women at the usual places, not outside the high school after a swim meet, brah.
I met my wife while we were in high school, not my brah.
Women are occupying the majority of seats in college classrooms, and the majority of them will not work full-time for the rest of their lives.
Not only are they wasting billions of dollars, they're also halving the number of educated males in the workforce. Then, while they're crippling the economy in this way, they're also spending 80% of all the money and taking men's taxes to keep men's children away from them.
If anyone wanted to revive the economy and prevent the collapse of society, the first step would be to stop paying women to have children. They would need to deal fairly with one man, if they couldn't steal money from all men. They would also stop raising millions of criminals and losers.
2 would be to stop giving women extra legal rights and privileges without requiring equal responsibility and accountability. Currently women are encouraged and enabled into the delusional view that they are independent and that men don't do anything important. Since women are more important in our laws and culture, everything men do is therefore seen as inferior. Nothing good comes from social disrespect for work, responsibility, and survival.
And then #3 might be to stop subsidizing their waste of the university system, although they would probably start spending their time more wisely after #1 and #2 put them back into the real world with the rest of us.
One of my wall-struck friends graduated architecture. She just went to be a hostess on a cruise ship. I asked her if she ever intended to actually use her degree and she was like, nah. I realized she took an opportunity that someone else would have probably used for gainful employment, and for her it was just dawdling.
Women are the ultimate herd followers they only feelz so debt is irrelevant. White Knight will take on the debt.
Exactly. These women will find some schmuck to pay their debts while they raise children if they're smart and want to raise a happy, healthy family.
Debt is one of the things that will stop me from elevating a plate. I can't be the only one. As less and less men are willing to marry women will start advocating bachelor taxes.
bachelor taxes = mass amount of men leaving the country.
seems like the end of the country is on it's way
It's funny. I'm majoring in English, but I am no means in debt from it. Community College pretty much pays itself.
I told my kid there's no reason not to hit the local CC get an associates related to what he wants to study, then move on to a university and finish out a 4 year degree, and do it all while not going 1 cent into debt. Sure those "prestigious" degrees from expensive schools can give a graduate a leg up, but by the time they both have 5 years experience, job history and performance will be all anyone really cares about.
He brought home his ACT score yesterday, it's a 31 so I think how to pay for college shouldn't be an issue.
Wow that's great news. A lot of the times kids don't understand that scores matter in that little time period of four years then become pretty irrelevant after that, but those four years can be important.
Better yet go to the cheaper undergrad and then go to the expensive "prestigious" school for a masters degree.
Way less expensive, and no one will remember the undergrad when u have a masters. Plus the MS opens even more doors and counts as even better experience and in some cases automatic boost in salary.
As an English major, that's what I always tell others: the only way to study liberal arts is to do it without any debt.
Far better to be unemployable with $0 in debt than to be unemployable with $50k of debt.
Its really the parents fault. Lil Suzy and Johnny Deserve to go to College.
then the parents mortgage their house or something. full BS
That is what a lot of Asian parents do to send their children to college. Of course, Asian parents would mortgage their houses only if the children were going into engineering, medicine, law, and other professional fields. Asians ain't paying for any art or social science BS.
When I was a senior in high school in the mid 2000's, I didn't want to go to college because I wanted to pursue a career in music. I was coasting my way through HS classes, and didn't even apply to college until April of my senior year, when I was convinced/guilted/duped by my older sister and parents to apply to the local state university.
I only got into that school through a low-income student program which I qualified for because my family lived below the poverty line. The only way I could pay for school was through a combination of financial aid and student loans. I didn't want to take out loans, but again, was convinced to do so by my sister because that's something that she did and it was "normal" to do so. In the fall of my freshman year, the school even made me listen to a lecture on why student loans were beneficial.
Fast forward 3 years - I wasn't studying STEM, and my shitty liberal arts major was something I chose because I thought it would be easy, but I was too concentrated on music and my ONEitis GF at the time to give a fuck about anything else, so I stopped going to classes and failed out of school. That was an especially dark time in my life as I had gained close to 75 pounds from where I was my senior year of HS.
My net worth was literally $-40,000 because of my student loans.
It's been almost a decade since I failed out of school, and I have a great career in technology, a job paying 6 figures, zero debt, and a net worth of $60,000. All without a degree.
I'm not sure where my life would be had I decided not to go to college. I may have been a successful musician. I may have ended up homeless, or worse, married with children. But I'm happy about what I've achieved despite all of my failures.
You do not need a degree in order to be successful.
Must be nice to be able to just marry some cuck and have him pay for it. Being A Girl Is Hard....
I wonder how that "I'm hot so I'm going to school and find a trust fund baby" plan is working out for them? I wonder how Disney movies translate in real life?
Not very well.
Trust me. I know. They're all alpha widowed. Trust fund guys don't marry random college girls. They marry people their family shares a class with. It's kinda bred into you and an unspoken necessity.
But you can still grab a doctor or engineer pretty easily if you don't slut it up and go traditional.
if they want to talk logically...
this is all politically driven. we were warned about the dangers of women's suffrage and the effects it would have on liberalism, but we persisted anyway
government loans go up in order to cover tuition rates. tuition rates go up because the universities know it's free government money, so in turn government loans go up, and so on. it's an endless supply and demand death spiral propped up by the government because one side of politics believes the government should pay for school (the people inadvertently voted on enslaving themselves under government-driven financial pretenses)
so if you want to get technical, this is a result of giving women an inch. because they took a mile and they're looking for more
there are prageru videos that cover this at a middle school level of understanding that even college feminists could understand
A woman's SMV drops to near zero by 40 and is down 50% by 30. (The Wall)
So she must get a lot done in a very few years before she gets old.
Her logic is to go into debt because she needs to "peak" by 25.
She just doesn't have the time to wait.
Beta Bucks males are expected to pay for it all... though in reality that is becoming less and less realistic.
Most women will fail and become bitter as they age.
The more debt she carries the more likely she ends up circumstantially infertile.
The college degree is a female focused population control system. (lowered fertility)
You wish. In reality they don't think very far ahead (to be fair most men neither). One signature to get an easy loan to study something cool? When you're young, having no idea about the value of money or labor? Hurr durr I'm a college student now, where's the next party?
Imho it's a crime to not drastically limit the access to degrees with a bad employment prospect to only the very best and motivated. But the college education is an industry now. An industry exploiting our children and especially the girls.
And the debt is "public debt".
We know how that ends... the debt isn't paid.
(until the entire system ends up like Greece)
There is no patriarchy. Western women are the most "privileged" people in history. Serious measures have to be taken before they get us all killed. They're just a bunch of spoiled brats throwing temper tantrums like children, instead of growing up and facing reality. Don't want to get raped? How about you stop letting savages that think rape is okay into our countries? No way, that means they'd be wrong. They can't face the fact that they only think in idealisms. Women aren't fit to lead. They lack the cold blood required to deal with these kind of things that only men have. It's what surprises me the most. They keep denying reality and challenging it, then are shocked when they met their inevitable failure.
An undergrad degree is table stakes for most jobs. If you have the opportunity to get a good one, do it. Even if you get a stupid one, it gives you the option to go do a professional degree in your 30s like law, mba, med school, dentistry, teachers college, whatever. Those professional certificates are binary yes/no in working in those fields. A middle of the road degree will have all the costs with few of the benefits.
If you have to go into mountains of debt just to afford table stakes for what will be at best mediocre cards, reconsider the alternatives, including military, trades, coding, running a landscaping or cleaning business, buy and sell, real estate investing, etc.
Is a degree "worth it?" Well, you have to ask "worth what, for what?" If you can't answer that second question, you have work to do.
I couldn't tell you how many women I know that rack up tens of thousands of dollars in college debt just to be a stay at home mom. There's at least a dozen relatives or inner circle men who have been paying their wives debt off for over a decade. It's only been brought up a few times but I make the wife's shit list every time I speak my mind on it.
Did you ever mention saving their virginity/n-count as well?
(Which is the real reason SAHMs went to college in the first place)
So that's why free public college has become a major issue.
Trust me, we tighten up HB 1 visas and firms will start sending people to college like they did in the 50-70s as a part of the development plan. The number of Boomers I've met that had college paid for surprised the hella out of me
Plenty of companies still send their employees to business school. My brother had his MBA at Chicago Booth paid for by his employer, the only condition being that he had to do 2 years minimum at the employer.
He liked the employer anyway and tuition was like $60k/year so he agreed.
Makes $180k living in Atlanta...which is probably like $300k in NYC I reckon.
then there are also articles where they bitch about the lack of jobs with their human studies degrees and saying that there "should" be jobs like that created specifically for them. then they blame capitalism, men, patriarchy, and god knows what else.
Hahaha! Another reason not to marry, because then you assume their debt!
something I found out the hard way when the exwife began divorce proceedings two years ago
US college system -fake admissions, fake degrees, but the cost is very real.
I majored in English.
Even if I was to say that it wasn't a useless major (it was), it was definitely a wholly depressing one.
Worse, the English department had people - both as students and as faculty - who just had this air of defeat.
(Losers, as you might call them)
These were people with no ambitions, no grand plans, no schemes or plots or anything at all. All they wanted was to sound smart. And critique capitalism. Boy, did they love that.
I HATED the damn thing with a passion and got the fuck out as soon as I could
Funny you post this, I know (girl A) who lets say has 60k in college debt, now had a bach degree, thought it was a good idea to fly across the country to go get her masters and tack on another 40k in debt....
Id rather have 100K in the stock market than 100k in student/college debt, thats just me.
So wait if women on my computer engineer college just want to secure a beta and hunt for cock why do they even study for exams ?
Is it because they want plausible deniability and not taken away from it ?
These "intellectuals" are fucking idiots.
It's like they still haven't figured out that college costs money. Like no shit if more women go and graduate college then more women will have college debt.
Physics undergrad in the UK here, just did my last exam today. The percentage split is staggering between the sexes in both my university's engineering and physics classes (85% men, 15% women).
The truth be told, everyone would much prefer a higher % of women to be in STEM subjects and steps are taken to promote women in science throughout lower education in the UK but women seem to be adverse to a lot of STEM fields regardless. Yet a large amount of women are studying media/film studies/fine art at my university, even though they're seen as much worse degrees.
Ratios are a lot worse in computer science.
Actually my CS classes were about 50- 50 men / women, at least in CS 101.
After the weed out courses - algorithms, Programming C (with pointers), and digital logic, it was 90-10 men / women :)
Don't knock film man, I can make a 1-2k a week if I feel like and I've only been doing it for a year. Although film studies is bullshit that I'm mad I paid for instead of going to a real production school for 2 years, but I wanted the ole "college experience" instead of rational decisions
He was knocking a film degree, which you agreed wasn't the best decision...
Your comment reads "don't knock film man. But your right tho"
Women believe everything they're told and follow the pack. They don't have an independent bone in their body. "Daddy and Mommy told me I needed college, so I need college".
End of story.
Not entirely about debt, but still interesting discussion is going on here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1993044-the-only-major-ive-ever-really-considered-is-something-ill-probably-suck-at-what-do-i-do-p4.html
it starts on page three.
Its Fortune OP, not Forbes. Good points overall.
They are trying to force women to be something they arent. They are largely not go getters. Woman are convinced they can do things by words, then fail through action. If any patriarchy exists it's manufactured by themselves to damage themselves.
It's sad that they never place any responsibility on the women, it's always something or someone else's fault. I feel bad for young girls, their being raised to never take accountability for their actions, their being raised to either be treated as victims or be treated as children. They'll grow up to be entitled brats that never grow as people to be independent but to be a controlled and manipulated demographic.
That's sexism IMO. Modern equality groups are going full regressive and raising a generation of weak, controlled women.
There's such a push in recent times to absolve women of any accountability or responsibility for their actions. If a woman gets passed out drunk in an alley and gets assaulted she is accountable for putting herself at risk but society tells her she's free to be as reckless as she wants. If a woman stabs her boyfriend she gets spared jail because society does everything it can to spare women prison. Advising women not to poison their babies in the womb with alcohol is called sexist, if a woman has an abortion she's not a killer but if a man pushes her and she miscarries then he is a killer. If women earns less it's called a wage gap and society is to blame, if women choose crappy degrees that don't net them a decent income it's societies fault and if women splurge on 50 pairs of designer shoes while neglecting their student debt it's because patriarchy nothing is ever down to women's choices.
Is there anything left that a woman can do where she'll be 100% solely responsible without any blame on patriarchy, sexism or something else?
women luv them free resources
Everyone is this sub should read, So Good They Can't Ignore You by Cal Newport.
I'm 30, no debt. Still live at home tho. But I got a bumpin system and some decent toys and stuff.
Found a girl who also lives at home...but no car, and just quit her job.
I guess this is the level I can get...seems like women always have to be less than you're worth to like you I suppose.
Sell your "bumping system" and toys. Get an apartment live life and stop selling yourself short
I am living life. Lol at least I own my stuff. Fuck rent.
Women shouldn't be allowed to work nor study.
Most of the women who go to college or university end up wasting the best years of their youth chasing a degree in a field where they will work for a few years before getting pregnant or finding a guy that will finance their lifestyle or both. Since there are more women graduating, they will also make it hard for men to get a well-paid job.
It's actually horrible for the women.
I'm 35 and trained as a lawyer (left that racket to go off on my own, but that's an aside)...consequently I know a lot of succesful female solicitors/barristers in their 30s. And the ones who are still at it are mainly single and various degrees of depressed about their lives.
Women in their 30s want kids...need kids. But when they're 18 they don't realise that that's what they'll want. So they go off, make their careers the centre of their world, make themselves undateable by virtue of being too succesful for most men, while all the succesful men they would consider dating are already taken or after younger girls.
I know so many women who are going to be crazy cat ladies. And it's all because they actually did what society told them was the right thing for them. It wasn't.
The more a women's income or education increases, or the greater their innate iq, the less likely they are to have children. Of the three, education has the worst negative effect on female fertility.
http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/591690 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028961000005X
Peterson actually talked about this in his lectures. On mobile right now, so hard to find the link.
Law firms have trouble retaining female lawyers after 30 because their priorities change and they want kids.
They see the lifestyle that working 80-90 brings and they just want no part of it.
Prohibiting women from studying is not the proper solution to the problem, for several reasons:
The prohibition of education for females would bring us too close to the ideological idiosyncrasies of truly stupid nations, such as those dominated by Islam.
Some women (albeit a very small number) actually do have the capacity to work unaided in male-dominated disciplines. We do not and cannot know what we might lose by excluding them. It is better to let women emerge organically into the field that suits their demeanour.
The prohibition of education (law) is a hard social barrier, and capitalist economies tend to smash through hard social barriers in the name of profit.
A more tenable solution is to end the daemonization of femininity - the removal of the soft social barrier (expectation). Defeat poisonous ideologies like feminism, and truly empower women by allowing them to choose their life path according to their individual natures.
Without fear and shame influencing their actions, many more women will steer away from needless and expensive education. At the same time, the women who are determined (and who wouldn't have been deterred by fear and shame in the first place) will still be free to pursue STEM work.
Of course, achieving this kind of balance would be a feat unto itself. There is too much easy money and influence to be gained in manipulating women into pursuing useless educations for any present incumbent to let go of the "save wimminz" campaign. Achieving this would require a gradual shift in the zeitgeist over several generations. But it is the only apparent solution that seems to be sustainable.
End programs and scholarships that encourage women to go to college or for companies to hire them and women will disappear from the work place.
Great post. However the cynic in me is convinced this will never happen without collapse first. Our society is too far gone unfortunately.
Sexual harassment and false rape allegations are hugely expensive. Even real instances are extremely expensive and arguably avoidable. A real case can be made that keeping the door open for a small minority isn't worth the overall externalities.
I didn't include the data here, but the average opt-out from the workforce rate for women with university education is on average between 40-60% depending on the field and university tier. Often because they get married to rich men who end up paying for their debt. It explains the irony that women who went to the high end universities are also the most likely to opt-out. They have access to the (eventual) highest earning men.
Return of Kings featured an articled on this topic. If I remember correctly, men also pay more taxes than women. So basically we are all in a certain way beta bucking men.
Those girls are certainly smart. They didn't go to those elite universities for the fancy degree, but to chase a man that could feed them.
deleted What is this?
Ya, women opt out of all career paths, but it is worse for some careers than others, and it is probably the worst in medicine. People need doctors, and there is only so much capacity to train them. We have the same problem in America. It isn't the only important factor, but it does make a difference in the high cost of health care here. Less supply=higher prices. And less access to healthcare.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/opinion/12sibert.html
Ya, an in depth analysis of tax differences is also in the book. Basically men pay way more taxes, and women receive way more government benefits. You can be as alpha as you want personally, but the government makes every man who works a beta bucks slave.
I imagine the return of kings article was mostly based on this recent study from new Zealand.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2375926
Are these numbers as significant as you are making them seem?
Women taking longer to pay off debt when they make less would make sense. Making less could be due to the wage gap (which red pill doesn't believe in but never cites anything more than anecdotal evidence as to why). 38 vs 31% of debt paid off after four years isn't much of a difference and again, nothing special here. You make less, harder to pay off debt. 56% is hardly much of a majority (also just one semester, I'd be interested in seeing more data). 1500 dollars isn't much when put into context. What's the average overall debt of college grads? I think it's like 60k. So 2.5% more?
I understand the impulse, but it's frustrating when people pull numbers and push them to fill their previously confirmed ideas.
I cite 2 reason for the wage gap in this very article, women do not work as many hours as men. The work part time more often. Less money.
They choose useless degrees. Again less money.
Additional reasons that are well sourced in the book.
They opt out of high paying careers at a high rate. They leave the workforce entirely at a high rate.
Everyone is latching on to the parenthesis I put in there. You may be right, I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions with that comment. Fair enough.
Regardless, your other stats don't prove anything. It isn't significant. If there is a wage gap (which you say yes and below he says no) then that explains half of your "key points". I don't see how your drawing conclusions off of what you showed here.
Women in their 20s earn more than men of same age. Companies are also more likely to hire young women over young men in their 20s. Of course, no one talks about pay equality and job opportunity equality for young men.
Source:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3214854/Pay-gap-Women-earn-men-till-40s-20-woman-paid-men-age-group-decade.html
https://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704421104575463790770831192
So women started out earning more than men, but as time goes on, men gradually and ultimately catch up and surpass women - because men work harder and longer, and men and are willing (or conditioned) to make sacrifices that women are not willing to make.
No one talks about young men, period. That's how society works. No point whining about it (not saying you are, that's more a reflection on our society), all you can do is suck it up and become the strongest version of yourself and then society will respect you. Humanity is programmed to respect strong men.
Doesn't this directly contradict the statistics shown in this post?
There's some racist bullshit in these "articles."
WTF from the original article "As usual, there are some substantial racial differences involved. These differences almost certainly correlate with known racial differences in IQ which explain overall income differences."
30 years of research on racial differences in intelligence
It's funny, you can point out the obvious fact that blacks on average are more athletic. But to point out on average less IQ is just verboten. Even tho both make complete sense evolutionarily.
It would actually be astonishing if all relatively isolated ethnic groups (amerindians, East Asians, Africans, Caucasians, islanders, etc) evolved to have the same IQs. The fact that we see variance between groups make total sense.
Obviously you can find very intelligent members of any ethnic group. But it's also obvious that ashkenazi Jews are on average smarter than average blacks.
What's also astonishing is how this was just common knowledge up until recent decades. But now in the name of "progress", a delusional understanding of equality is the only acceptable opinion.
What I find astonishing is that there are some people in this sub who have no problem accepting IQ differences between men and women, but balk when you say there are race differences. How can you accept group differences in one instance and not the other? Especially since genetically men and women of the same race aren't going to be that different, and thus the causes of salient differences are much more subtle and nuanced. Racial differences should be easier to accept because there has been anywhere from 10s of thousands to millions of years of separation between groups, depending on who you ask. That is plenty of time to evolve in different directions. Like if you specialize in running from people you steal from vs. building better technology for farming.
Because humans are so genetically similar, that if we were dogs, we would all be the same breed. What you call racial differences are mostly just superficial local adaptations to ambient solar radiation levels.
Well, you can believe that if you want, but it isn't true. Small genetic can and do have large effects, including on intelligence.
But blacks on average aren't more athletic. Blacks have higher rates of obesity than whites in the United States.
Eh but you can be naturally athletic and if you become obese that just means you've hindered your natural ability. But your genes are still athletic.
It's clear that blacks are more likely to be ultra athletic by their high overrepresentation in the highly athletic sports, such as football, basketball, and Olympic track/field. They dominate those despite being a minority in society % wise.
You are retarded if you believe that shit. The differences in IQ are socio economic not genetic you fucking knob.
this is research straight out of liberal berkeley
what facts do you have that challenge this?
Black GI's who lived in Germany post war had children with German women, those kids had IQ's equal to their German counterparts and white Americans but Black Americans have a lower one. These are the same black people who had low IQ's in America, but their kids were just as smart as their German contemporaries. America treated black people so bad they got dumber. If your data is coming only from America (data recorded from Americans) then it will not show the whole truth.
source data would help
are you suggesting these subjects are half black, half german?
and finally, exceptions aren't the rule. how do you explain africa? led mostly by blacks, except where they've been dominated by arabic ideology or cornered whites in the south, suffering the worst average IQ on the planet compared to all other regions
socio-economic conditions don't really apply as they are represented at competitive levels to other races globally. do you believe they aren't responsible for their socio-economic conditions in africa as well? what about pure-blooded african inventions through their 6,000 years of recorded history?
in america 62% of black births are paid for by welfare
in america 21% of blacks are born to teenage mothers
in america 90% of interracial violence is black-on-white
in america blacks commit 50% of all murders
how are these trends occurring throughout the entire country in all of the major cities? this is somewhat a rhetorical question, as the answer is generally one of two choices. "muh oppression" or genetic differences in IQ
it's just easier to claim oppression, but in the grand scheme it is extremely self-destructive. remember, red pill concepts advocate truth, because truth is what allows us to enforce personal accountability. to make ourselves better
I would love to see how Africa developed without being literally raped by both Muslims and Europeans. If you honestly think that because Africa has worse socio economic conditions than Europe that proves they have lower IQ's then that is consciously forgetting 600 years of destruction and forced emigration which most definitely has an effect. The ramifications of colonization go so much deeper than can be comprehended.
Also, in anthropology, race is not accept as a valid way to split up groups of people. There are phenotypical variations between groups of people, but they don't matter. You people want to think that because the color on the outside is different then somehow the person must be different on the inside. That is wrong. Africans have more expected genetic diversity within their population than they do between populations. In other words, the amount of genetic difference between an african and another African is larger than expected, while comparing an African to an Asian or European reveals less expected variation.
The Eyferth study is crap. Two main problems, blacks who were accepted were made to pass an IQ test and the lowest 30-40% were not drafted. These fathers weren't representative of the population. 2 they were half white, so of course their iq wouldn't vary as highly.
This study has not been replicated in the 50 years since it came out, yet plenty of other studies have been done which are better and show race differences are real. Yet leftists still cite it as if it was relevant.
yup, facts have always been racist
The degrees are not objectively useless.
Objectively speaking, having a degree in underwater feminist studies returns a far better baseline income and grants greater wealth than having no degree.
How can a piece of paper that returns far more income be objectively useless?
Now, a degree in underwater feminist studies is objectively relatively useless compared to a dredge in accounting. But they are not objectively useless on their own.
My point is, is that any college degree is great compared to no college degrees.
When you combine it with the increasing amount of debt, a lot of that extra income washes out. Thus useless. As time goes on, and new students debt level increases, the more useless the degree is despite increasing income modestly.
Technically true that the value of any degree is diminishing. However, the delta is so massive between no degree and any degree that even borrowing 100k for a underwater feminist studies degree is still worthwhile.
Any degree is not just a "modest" increase income, you see. It is a dramatic increase. (Over a lifetime, of course)
I am not attacking the underlying tenants of your thesis. I'm saying that any person will be better off with any degree from any school that is not named devry. However, were in agreement that those people would be vastly more rewarded for their efforts if they study a more useful subject.
I strongly suspect that a degree in women's studies makes holders just about unemployable in mainstream society.
It's all nice and well written, but why would you link to a website that supports racial hatred?
How convenient to have these things to blame instead of blaming an economy that doesn't give a shit about us. The ignorance lives on for capitalist America.
Yes; the economy owes us! The economy must give us a shit!!!
You mean like jobs? Yeah, it does kind of owe us that.
I mean 'like jobs'. And, how do you figure it owes anybody anything? Actually, I don't want to know how you figure that, I'm just pointing out your delirium.
You want and desire something, and, childishly, you think that you are owed that thing; You are stating your wants, not an objective assessment.
Dude I have a job. I have a few. That's what I have to do to be able to maintain a family where I'm from. But a lot of people don't have nearly the fortunate circumstances I have, and I'm still making hardly crap because I just lost a server position at a nice restaurant because I couldn't handle myself beyond two tables. Just wasn't used to the environment. But man I don't care who you are, it's ignorant to think it's easy to get a good paying job when you aren't born into money. Besides, you don't even know me. Who shit in your Cheerios this morning?
WTF are you on about?? You think that some system is somehow indebted to you and/or others, by some mystical alchemical formula you are using.
WTF ever said getting a good paying job was easy, or, for that matter, even possible?? I'm addressing your pronouncement that 'the economy owes people jobs'.
Dude all that politicians and new presidents do is say that they will give jobs back to Americans. What does an economy exist for if not supplying and working the citizens of their countries? Look at how much better the US was doing when everything was still MADE in the US! I actually work for one of the few microphone companies that still build in the US, and the quality of these things... They can last 20 years!!! Do you know how Chinese workers are treated? Their punishments if they don't work fast enough? They get fucking whipped. They can be replaced immediately, and suicide nets are not a myth. But we as a country support this by supplying China's economy to be able to continue with this kind of work enforcement. Why? So corporations can save money and still sell their crap for the same price.
For being a member of RP you definitely haven't taken one for this stuff, dude.
"Objectively" lol you're actually retarded