So in various conversations on TRP, guys raised by single mom's have mentioned that they'd like a list of lessons that father's teach. Here are a dozen that I put down on paper (or electrons) some from my dad, some from other dads, etc.
Best of luck to everyone.
Believe in Yourself. In order to reach your goals, you have to believe you can accomplish them. Don’t worry, there will be plenty of people around to tell you that you can’t do something. Those people are talking based on their own limitations, not yours.
Take risks. It’s ok to make mistakes. Learning from mistakes is important. Push yourself. Dare to do great things. And if you fail, get up, dust yourself off, and get back at it. Don’t play it safe all the time. Columbus wouldn’t have found America if he never left the harbor.
Face your problems. Call them by their names. Learn to solve them yourself. That’s what brave people do.
Life is tough. You are going to be knocked down more times than you can count. It’s not the number of times you get knocked down that matters. What matters is that you get back up, and keep fighting for what you believe in.
Work Hard. Work hard, and rest afterwards. Be responsible. If you do a half-assed job of something, expect to get called out for it. A lot of people miss out on opportunity because when opportunity knocks on your door, very often it’s dressed in overalls and looks like “Work”.
Always get the other guy’s side of things. There are two sides to every story, and while those sides can be “Right” and “Wrong” that’s not often completely the case. When you’re wrong, admit it. If you owe someone an apology, make it and mean it.
Make Your Own Decisions. Just because someone is more educated than you are, doesn’t mean they know what’s best for you. If you make mistakes, let them be YOUR OWN mistakes, not someone else’s.
Loyalty is Not a Character Flaw. People remember who was still their friend when things got rough. Hold on to those people, and shred the assholes.
Keep your word. Once you break it, it’s broken forever. The day will come when you need the benefit of the doubt, and if you have a strong reputation for honesty and integrity, you will get it.
Respect is earned. It’s earned through keeping your word, and doing what you said you’d do. You can’t buy character, and money is a shit way to keep score.
Don’t Quit. Winners win; losers whine.
Never Put That First Cigarette in your mouth Then you will never have a problem.
As a 28 year old man who has been fatherless for going on 20 years now, I have had problems with nearly every item on this list. Specifically - believing in myself, taking risks, facing my problems, and making my own decisions.
The good - I've been making massive strides in all these areas in the past six months or so compared to the past six years.
The bad - This is something that haunts me on a consistent basis. Wondering if the reason behind getting into PUA and subsequently TRP are due to these lessons I never received when I was younger. That being said, figuring this shit out yourself builds character. At least that's what I tell myself. Hah.
In the same boat as you pretty much. I'm 24 and honestly, sad as it might be, I only started learning to be a man when I was 22 or so after breaking up with my 4 year girlfriend.
I used to think stuff like dominance and aggression were toxic/negative behaviors. Used to call myself a feminist.
Good news is for me I pretty much pulled a 180 and am doing way better now and you're right that it definitely builds character.
Everyone has problems with things on the list at some point in their lives. I was like Andy The 40 Year Old Virgin, I respected women so much I completely avoided them or put them on a pedestal like the Greek goddess Pussalia...
Feminism is toxic, to pretty much everything it touches. Glad you woke up, man.
I thought I was the only one that really connected with that line from the movie.
Once I realized what I was doing it all made sense.
My dad is very beta and gave almost no guidance on how to do life other than "work hard now so that life will be easier later" and "treat people with kindness". In retrospect, these are both bad advice. The former, because you shouldn't stop working hard, and the latter because of the multitude of scenarios where it's a way of self-sabotage.
Anyway, at 22 I had just broken up with a girlfriend of 3 years, and it wrecked me. I started figuring out some redpill stuff all on my own and figuring out how to become a man. I'm 30 this year and I found TRP a month ago. I'm digesting the sidebar as fast as I can. This subreddit helps so much with my sanity, and it helps to know that I'm not a psychopath for already coming to some of these conclusions Anyway, the fact that you find this place as early as you did is a godsend. Beat of luck.
Your dad's advice was not bad at all, and you have clearly failed to understand it or apply it properly. Do not blame him for your failings. Plenty of guys in here wish they had a father to give them the "work hard early" tip - it is solid advice. Grow up and own your shit, you should not need pats on the back and internet validation at your age
Sure, the "work hard early" tip is valid, but can be mis-guided by beta beliefs. My beta dad said the same thing, even telling me I would need to work 2 jobs to get what I wanted. When I pushed back, my psycho mom said I would need to work like a dog... just like them.
The better advice is to work smarter, not harder. The better path is to work at one job and go to school (or training) at night to better yourself, to get a skill, or a trade, or something in demand. That's how you get ahead. And if you are lucky, find a job or a career you actually like to do. There is no point is working your whole life in a job you can't stand...
So I actually like to combine both the Work Smarter - Not Harder concept with the Work Hard - Play Hard concept.
So, sure, a beta dad's advice to work hard is a good start (and yes, better then nothing), but really needs more clarification on what the end goal is.
I am currently 20 right now, and working 3 jobs over the summer totalling 70 hours a week. I need to work this hard to pay for my chemical engineering degree when I go back to school. I don't think there is anything wrong with working as hard as you can manage, as long as that's not the end goal.
I did the same thing when I was 13. I worked in a factory 4 hours after school every day. I figured if became acclimated to hard work early nothing could stop me later. The reality was I was acclimating myself to being blue collar in a blue collar culture. It was blue-pilling me as well. If I put that same effort in to building my own business (even if it was just series of controlled failures that needed to be weeded out before success) I would have been on a worthwhile path. At 13 it's hard to be taken seriously, but at 13 no-one can stop you from figuring out a niche product to sell on eBay, for example.
Can u explain why treating people with kindness is self-sabotage? just curious. Because u become too concerned about others rather than urself?
Kindness is not bad, but mostly when it's coming from someone who chooses to be kind but has power. If someone is weak and needy and is kind, it's just by necessity. They have no teeth.
Kindness can be self sabotage because people can have martyrdom complexes which means they will not take care of themselves and give everything they have for others, but they eventually collapse and down the road become resentful and bitter at others for not doing the same for them--which is unreasonable.
It's far better to take care of yourself, then others. I know this because my father was like that, did everything for everyone else to the point of creating burdens and problems for his own fucking family. He's not even a bad person, but he doesn't get it. By being too kind or too helpful you can even stunt other people's growth. If you never let someone suffer or face adversity without rushing in to help then you fix one problem only to create an enormous problem down the road. Looking at my fathers life, he worked his ass off for his family, but taking another look I see nothing but people who are well meaning but completely dependent on him. He became resentful and bitter that nobody helps him, yet at the same time he created this situation. He needs them to be dependent on him so he can fulfill his identity, yet he is sour that everyone is dependent on him. It's an ego thing.
Side Analogy
In the 70s there were a lot of weird cult secs. People would be absorbed by the sec and become completely brainwashed. At the time it was legal (i believe) for a family member to hire a 'de-programmer' to ubduct the brainwashed family member and talk to them a skilled way to deprogram them and bring them back to reality.
Some redpill posts (like above) bring so much clarity that it also becomes clear to me that men are raised to believe so much bullshit brainwashing that most of use need an equivalent of being deprogrammed.
It's as if we are born in to a cult sect, and every man must overcome the default mental map of complete mind fuckery before they become a real man.
I suppose I came to a complete circle because this analogy is pretty close to the 'matrix' analogy.
Fuck thats a good response. Take my upvote and virginity if ure a grill.
I just turned 20 and it sounds like a few months back I was pretty much who you were with 22. Progressing now on becoming someone I actually wanna be, as you put it, a man. Good to hear how it turned out for you, I'm gonna be there as well.
This is something that's bothered me for a long time. Does being fully and adeptly guided into strong independence give you an opportunity to develop true agency? If they're never given the opportunity to experience the vulnerability of having no guidance, will they understand that? Would they make a good father if they never saw how important it is to be a good father?
Then, if someone had an absentee or nonexistent father, developed themselves, and felt the importance of that void, would they become too involved in their son's development that he become very successful, not seeing the necessity of fathering, leading him to become somewhat of an absentee father? It's a weird cycle.
My best guess is that you keep involved in your kids' personal lives only to help them become the best version of who they are, not who you want them to be. Get on their level, and get them on yours. But where do you draw the line? When do you let them learn and when do you steer them away? When do you try to teach them and when do you let them develop their own opinions?
I don't know, I'm 22. This stuff is difficult. Any thoughts/input appreciated.
Edit - holy fuck too long; Shortened.
any lesson however hard is beneficial. The intensity of stress for someone in a privileged life can be the same as someone in a third world country in some situations. I think the key is; To have lessons that are not permanent damage..... for example; "next time I better not drive too fast- too late im in a wheel chair.. or I better stop taking drugs- too late I have mental illness.....BETTER: i'm jobless & directionless for 20years, but I'm finally getting out of it, lost time but no permanent damage
Right, but do you really sit back and watch them be lost? That's why I'm saying be involved, so you can pose questions to get them thinking and have expectations so they have something driving them, stepping in to assist if needed - but if they're never left directionless, will they understand the importance of fathering? And if they are left alone, will they understand the importance of teaching their kids agency, or will they over-parent, leading to the first imposition of never being lost? It's a contradiction.
If alone and learnt the hard way then they'll probably over-parent.
There is a benefit of learning the hard way.
I think teach common sense- Teach them things to avoid in life: Example; Unplanned pregnancy/ marry too young, drugs, dont break the law, debt, long term stress and unhealthy habits leads to health problems... etc - these are things that can do permanent damage.... And I would say everything else I give advice if you ask for it but good luck with it. The above though I would drill in my offsprings head
Well I'm not a dad and I haven't really had a dad so most of this is speculation on my part.
The first half of your question is a "it depends" answer. I have plenty of friends who have had great fathers who will be good fathers themselves. It is an interesting question but one that there will never be a clear cut line in the sand for.
The second half of your question you pretty much hit the nail on the head. You help mold them into the person they are by instilling the right values and morals. The line is drawn on an instinctual level. As a dad, you're going to know when they have to learn a lesson the hard way and when you're going to have to dad the fuck out of a situation
Right, but I guess my specific concern is in letting someone be lost. There's definitely something to be gained from hitting rock bottom and learning to pull yourself up alone, but is it worth it? My ego says yes, but my liver and wallet say no.
legit dude, as someone whose had to learn a few lessons in corporate america the hard way, i can say that those who are succesful come from succesful families and have a strong mentorship program from the time they are young. having someone guide you along the way means you make less mistakes and can spot them from the getgo and learn from others mistakes.
I have a dad that's been pretty successful and generally seen as alpha by my friends who know him, and yet I read PUA years ago and TRP today. Few parents, or people, will spell all this stuff out for you.
You're not wrong about PUA and TRP - but I originally went there because I needed to solve the problem of building confidence in myself.
It's the question of nature v.s. nurture - was this journey inevitable because that's in my DNA, or was this journey inevitable because of that's how my environment was shaped.
The boy is father to the man.
I have no idea what this means but have an upvote because I'm hoping it's a real cool metaphor that went straight over my head.
Haha fair enough. It's from a poem by Wordsworth.
Long story short, he says we culture our adult selves whilst we're children. As an extension of this, it's true that the us of today cultures the us of tomorrow.
Relating this back to your post, if you (the boy) want to grow into a man you admire (the man) you need to culture (father) him yourself.
You seem down as fuck on yourself over your shortcomings, but at least you're owning up to them man.
I'm curious as to how you've come to the conclusion that, while you're working towards bettering yourself now, that at 28 you've failed at what you mentioned. I.e. Believing in yourself, taking risks. Etc.
I want to know, what makes you think you failed at those things at 28?
I'm in my 20s and I can learn from you man.
Hah - it's actually one of my wet dreams to eventually run a coaching business. I figure that if I fixed myself, then I can help fix you too. So I appreciate that last comment.
I'm not as down as fuck as I may have come across. I'm simply super self-aware (and hard on myself), and I know I have not lived up to my standards or my potential whatsoever so far in my life. That's why I have "failed" up to this point. My confidence is shaky at best - I've never truly believed in myself, I've never taken any risks - I've always done "what I was supposed to", I always went with the crowd and let my friends decide what I to do, and I didn't face my problems - I ran away from them straight into fifteen years of video games, porn, drinking and smoking.
I'm petrified of going up to a cute girl and saying "Hi." I get lucky off Bumble or Tinder dates every now and then. I'm a pretty boy, my friends tell me this all the time - guys and girls, "bthepill, just shut up and look em straight in the eyes with those damn blue eyes of yours." Some of them wonder if I'm gay because I haven't had a serious relationship in years. Hell I never have girls around. No guys, my confidence is just shit and I haven't the slightest clue how to actually put into action all this advice that I've read over the years. No idea how to consistently give girls tingles. Occasionally I get lucky and just happen to be on fire that night, but that's 1 out of 100 times. I know I can do better than that.
I've cut video games. I've cut porn. I've cut smoking. And I've nearly cut drinking. And every day I feel a little better. Working out or running six days a week. Reading. Meditating. Hitting yoga to fix my body. Cooking. Studying to advance my career. Actually getting this shit done. The shit I want to get done because I know it's the right thing for me. Not putting things off because I'm a slave to another smoke or a pixelated character or pair of boobs on the screen. I'm slowly becoming my own person. The person I want to be.
The funny thing is, I have ALL the confidence in the world that I can become the person I want to be. I know that I can live up to the standards and ambitions that I hold for myself. I have ZERO doubts about that. Now I'm finally starting to live up to it, finally starting to actualize it, instead of playing another video game.
I'm 38. Honestly you just get better with age. Yes, I wish a father or older brother have instilled this in me. But - I also get the freedom to discover masculinity as it applies for myself. My father was more old fashioned, so maybe he would've told me to be a better provider (and sacrificing myself). He himself wasn't that way, but when I was younger (we moved away from him at the age 10) he often voiced the "corporate line" of what it takes to be a good boy. Really - blue pill speech even though he himself was pretty red pilled.
You're missing the Red Pill problem caused by fatherless males. No Dad means a matriarchal family. So the center is life is pleasing Mom. There's nobody around to tease her, tell her no, or take the lead. So guy's don't learn the lesson and make all sorts of beta mistakes with women.
That's what the comments are for, bringing up stuff like this. I wanted to go lean and get the 12 points in.
Raised by a (busy) physician father + stay at home mom. This describes my childhood pretty well.
And even if you have an alpha father, you still spend the majority of your earliest and most formative years pleasing women: i.e. in elementary school. You have to be good and please teacher like the tattle-tale goody two shoes pig-tailed teacher pets; don't be destructive or physical or aggressive. It is horrible for little boys. Your first lessons are that your natural male behaviors are wrong and socially unacceptable. Sparta did it a bit differently, however ...
So the center is life is pleasing
Momthe Feminine.Its this, thats the causes the wider BP indoctrination.
At the end of the day when it comes to dating the big lesson many men need to learn today is " Women don't want to be treated like your mom". Simple as that , So many men desperately cling to women for attention and their presence as If they are as important and critical to their existence as the woman who pushed them out of her vagina.
It's ludicrous but explains why we have a problem with so many men fixated on being " good boys" into their golden years.
I've seen a handful of these in my life, and they're all very scary. Literally every girl in these types of families is a gigantic slut, and the boys are overweight/obese deadbeats. When a woman gets her way 24/7 in a home, it's a recipe for disaster. Men provide structure for a normal upbringing, ideally.
I just wanna comment on the loyalty point really quick. This only applies to people. Do not think your job/company is loyal to you. You are an expense. If you find a better opportunity always take it and do not consider being loyal to a business because they will not be loyal to you.
100% True. I am sometimes called upon by young women for advice as I am a reliable source of information about Men and How to Live With Them. One of my standard lines is: If you will serve a man or a company, choose the one that will love you back.
Lol love it when you're so good they message you for quick advice on another.
That is genuinely disturbing on several levels.
What's disturbing is that young women waste the flower of their youth working in meaningless jobs in cubicle farms.
I know so many intelligent men who don't understand this . I have tremendous respect for them as individuals but they are absolutely bound and committed to corporate slavery . The job is their identity and getting the company money in every way they can ( be it a sacrifice of personal time , money, relationship strain , whatever) . They will do it . All the men I have known who've gotten dramatic wage increases and better less stressful positions abandoned the idea of corporate loyalty long ago , the men who still believe in it though are underpaid and overworked.
corporate america is a scam. only betas think it is the way to success
Never put that first line of coke in your nose - then you'll never have a problem.
Results may vary on this one, but don't ever do it to be safe
I'm not a guy who uses drugs - although other people get to make their own choices, which I don't begrudge, so long as they can handle it - but as I understand it, as you get older, coke becomes more dangerous because it tends to be a vaso-constrictor, so if you have heart disease, it can be a problem, see "Entwhistle, John" for an example.
Just lost a friend of mine recently, guy was a well-known Hollywood producer, quite overweight, just over 40, loved his fast food, drinks, coke, women. We all knew it was just a matter of time. I checked in with him (or on him through mutual friends) every couple of months, guy was just off doing his own thing (partying), and then, one day, there it was, on my Facebook feed (in the Hollywood Reporter): guy was found dead in his house. Over 40, overweight, loved his blow: his death was surprising to exactly NO ONE. We all expected it, still hurt / sucked all the same. All I can think now is: damn, if our boy had cleaned himself up, he could have had another few decades of kicking ass and making awesome movies (and fucking chicks etc). But now it's like "Remember that guy? Yeah, he was funny. Anyway, moving on..."
He was the second friend of mine, by the way, that was just over 40, overweight, and had a heart attack and died from coke use.
TLDR: if you're over 40, and particularly if you're overweight, DO NOT DO COKE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. It's a death sentence.
Just to clarify: that's not to say that you can't do a little bit of it (coke) when you're younger and get away with it, certainly I had my brief coke phase working in the fashion scene when I first moved to NYC in my mid-20s (15 years ago). I was never really into it, did it if it was going around at parties etc but never sought it out on my own, for me it was strictly a social thing. When I left that scene I left that drug behind as well, was happy to do it.
So yeah, if you're young and in shape, feel free to indulge A LITTLE BIT. But once you get older, particularly into your 30s, watch out. It gets a lot tougher to recover. And when you get to your 40s, you need to cut that shit out entirely (that goes for pretty much all drugs after 40, actually, except for maybe very occasional pot smoking).
Get it all in in your 20s kids, then clean up in your early 30s. That's how I did it and that's what I recommend...
Why? Am I missing something? I can easily do some coke then not do it for months, never getting uncontrollable urges. Since it's not physically addicting, it's pretty easy to get control over
Just because it isn't an uncontrollable urge doesn't mean that it isn't a physically addicting substance. A plethora of studies have shown its capacity for physical dependency, even in animals not in the primate kingdom.
A quick google suggests that it's not "physically addictive" per se.
Whilst a "physical addiction" can occur, I'm under the assumption that it's not exactly the same as a "physical dependence". This is because there aren't any physical withdrawal symptoms
For my own reading, could I have a source? I've dabbled with drugs and researched things extensively before trying them. My research pointed towards a massive psychological addiction (which I can attest to) but nothing on the physical side (apart from the obvious health risks). Please note by "physical addiction" I'm talking the same class as Meth/Heroin.
Having said that, I also think it's important to clear up misconceptions about drugs (even coke). Most of them are no worse than alcohol. Regulation will help minimise the health risks.
As a cocaine addict in recovery I beg to differ.
Everybody is neurologically different and there is a genetic difference between those prone to addiction and those not. I'm sure there are people who can do half a gram in a night and then stop but there is a difference between them and I.
The second I get a line in my nose, something changes in my head, and my body. Until the second I either run out of coke, run out of money, or my dealer stops replying, I will be doing coke.
I completely lose control and by the time I'm coming down, I find I've either pawned stuff to keep the binge going, robbed a pharmacy or a person for opiates/benzos to sleep, or I've robbed a dealer for the rest of his blow.
I always envied my friends who could save a line for the morning because the second I opened that bag, chopped up a line, rolled that bill up and sniffed, I would be out anywhere from $70 to $2000. That's not a joke, I've done a few 30 gram binges in my life. At the height of my use I was spending over $1000 a day on cocaine.
Eventually I realized I was bleeding money for a high that wasn't as intense as it could be. I started freebasing. Ruined my teeth. It was obvious I was slowly killing myself and separating myself from reality but I couldn't stop.
Then came needles. Shooting coke changed my life. I went from still-functioning, engaged, and employed to rolling my car twice, my fiancé leaving me, homeless, and unemployed within 2 months of putting the blow in my arm.
The fucked up part is I still think about the taste you get 7 seconds after you hit the plunger. I still think about the skin tingles. The electricity racing up my arm. The ringing in my ears. Shooting my girl up for her first time.
I think about that and suddenly the 50 days sober I have don't sound like all that much. I could get 50 days again easily.
I think about that and I feel a shiver run from my ballsack up to the top of my head. It feels better than sex just thinking about it.
I had to slave so fucking hard through the physical withdrawal, the sobering up and realizing the woman I was going to have a family with had left me, the sleepless nights wondering where my savings had gone, I had to slave through all of that to make it to where I am today, less than two months since my last line.
I can say without a doubt if someone offered me a line I would throw it all away.
I would die if I did coke again. If not through mixing alcohol, xanax, and heroin to come off a binge, like i did many times, it would be from robbing the wrong dealer or a cop seeing a gun when i crashed yet another car, coked out of my skull.
Cocaine is nowhere near as safe as some things are. I think alcohol is evil but I don't think it belongs in the same category as cocaine.
I am not a weak man. No other substance makes me do this, not even meth or heroin
Please don't say shit that amounts to "cocaine is as safe as alcohol".. Alcohol kills quickly and puts people in prison, cocaine kills slowly and puts you in a different type of prison.
sorry to word vomit but I needed to say it.
but he did a quick google search
damn homie sounds rough, good on you for making it 50 days though and here's to hopefully another 50 :)
Do you lift? If you don't, it might help on your road to recovery.
Fellow alcoholic in recovery here (almost 7 years--I never had a problem with the drugs but for me the booze was more than enough to get me to and through Step 1).
Stick with it man, 50 days sober is nothing to sneeze it. One day at a time, you'll have your 90 before you know it. I'm sure you've heard it all before but I'll say it again anyway: hit meetings (NA for you, I assume), get a sponsor, work the steps. Find community through the program as you can. You don't have to do it forever but do it for at least a year, get your sober legs under you, and then see how you feel. I promise 12 months from now your outlook on life will be very different.
I hear what you are saying and cocaine is incredibly addictive but what the other guy is saying is that it isnt physically addictive in the way that heroin and alcohol are, which is correct. Cocaines addictiveness cones from called positive reinforcement addiction and cocaine has the strongest effects in this category but it isnt physically addictive in the same way as those other drugs. I was suprised to learn this too.
Again, technically, what you're describing is a psychological addiction and not a physical one.
I'm sorry for what you're going through, but you're an outlier.
The fact is, there are millions of stories almost exactly the same as yours but with alcohol. With prescription meds. With ecstasy. With acid.
It's not entirely the drug
Youre right on all counts my man. Lmao at the downvoting ignorance.
I have a research background in drug policy.
It's like using a cheat in a game. You're artificially improving, without doing the work.
The problem lies in the fact that you view this as a viable method of acquiring that mental clarity, while it's nothing but an artificial boost which lasts a couple of hours before the after effects kick in. It gives you a false notion of the availabilty of peak performance.
I've done it twice. Just enough to know what it is and how it feels. Why do I not do it anymore? Because I know that such mental clarity is achievable organically, through dedicated self development and mental growth.
I much rather spend my time growing incrementally than injecting the occasional shot of peak performance while slugging along in the mean time since 'I can get peak performance whenever it suits me anyway, why put in the effort?'.
Are you sure you aren't talking about adderall?
You can apply it to most mind enhancing substances.
I was just gonna add that point. That is ram dass' take on drugs, their cheatcodes that can help you get there but really need to do the work yourself or you dont get the same benefits.
It's just a bit of fun. You don't play video games for anything other than to kill a few hours. If you're out and about and have a line or 2, nothing wrong with that in moderation. If anyone takes coke to "improve" themselves, that's an entirely seperate issue. You're right that it shouldn't be a crutch though.
But I digress, others want to be on the ball 24/7. I'm happy pissfarting around and making a fool of myself every other month when I get some time off. That's fine, to each their own.
That's how it get's you. You can stop easily, you're just doing it by choice. Then, as you enjoy it more, you take more. Before you know it you've lost yourself and have to pick your anorexic ass out of some gutter a hundred miles from home and you get ill after 2 days without taking anything.
Same can be said about alcohol
Wow. I come from a line of fathers who died young and absent fathers (going on four or five generations now, somehow - I'm at least the fifth). I have a feeling this post is going to get put up on my wall so that I read it every day. I need to internalize all of this as soon as possible.
Thanks, OP.
YW. You're the guy I'm writing this for.
You bring up an interesting point. My great grandfather made the career limiting move of dying when my grandfather was 11. It took 3 generations to completely fix.
This is an important point that I've often thought of and is probably worth a separate discussion. We know the damage of not having strong male figures in your life.
The compound effect of this when your father and his father didn't have strong father figures or those figure neglected to teach them intense.
Most of this boils down to self-respect, in a nutshell. And I agree with that entirely. Growing up without a father (and a weak mother at best) I was raised with no self-respect and had decided to be a pawn as that's how we're supposed to live happily. Thank god I found this community as it helped me realize my worth and gave me confidence. I realize now that we all have our own mission on earth and you don't HAVE to be somebodies pawn if you don't want to.
To this day my mother discourages me when I attempt to try new things and make risky decisions. 90% of the time they pay off, or at the least I learn valuable life knowledge that will help me down the road. To all the other fatherless guys out there, don't let anybody tell you what you can or can't do, even if you have no clue what you're doing. Do try it, learn, and gain some self-respect.
Love you all and thanks for the guidance over the last 2 years or so
solid man, some great advice. Kinda shit young men need to hear.
These are all rather trite, if we're being honest. The importance of the presence of a father figure in a young child's life stems more from its beneficial psychological and interpersonal impact on the child rather than lesson the father might verbalize to the child (though lessons are important as well). These kinds of motivational platitudes do not replace the psychologically stabilizing presence of a masculine figure.
Yep. But some guys didn't get that. So we can help them by building a community here.
I'm here to help. What are you here for?
These motivational platitudes are the beneficial psychological and interpersonal impacts that many fatherless men didn't have the opportunity to receive.
What's your suggestion as to helping them out and giving them the masculine presence and lessons they haven't had?
Fatherless boys find their own replacements for masculinity; they don't need help finding it. These replacements can either be constructive and positive, like friendships, sports, martial arts. Or they can be destructive and negative, like joining a gang or becoming a criminal.
Incorrect we live in a gynocentric society so yes some men will find replacements for a lack of masculinity in their lives however we have an increasing problem where men are instead demonizing masculinity and we have a few generations of feminized men running around who think merely standing up to a woman in their relationship is abuse . I grew up as a boy with such a situation up until I was 25 and I like to describe myself up until that point as a Tiger with no claw s , fangs, or killer instinct. Basically a glorified and oversized house cat . Some men are basically women with penises at this point .
You think pretty highly of yourself don't you?
Boys are the product of their environment. Boys with fathers become criminals and gang members, just like those without. Shit father=Worse than fatherless.
Go back to stroking yourself in the mirror, you offer no insight here.
You're a narrow minded, mental midget from what I have observed. A father figure is an all encompassing figure in a young boy's life. They're so much more than interpersonal skills or psychological security.
This list doesn't replace a dad, it supplements and provides what someone without one may have missed. As someone else asked..
What are you here for if you're not here to help? To make yourself feel superior with your opinionated bullshit?
The answer to your last question is, quite simply, no. I have higher expectations for posts than this, something I could read on the back of a Wheaties box. As to my narrow-mindedness, I did not imply that fathers are only good for interpersonal skills or psychological security, merely that without a stable father figure, these things severely lack. If a boy can't do basic things such as be grounded when talking to others, how much is a motivational piece such as this really going to help him?
Now, where are my tissues and lotion?
I think the biggest effect of growing up without a father is that it puts one decades behind guys who grew up with a father in terms of how to deal with/attract women. Think about it, you don't grow up seeing how your father handles your mother and so don't get that behaviour imprinted on some level. So when you go out into the dating world you really are starting from absolute zero.
Edit: a word
You're right,
7 Years ago I was hanging out with "friends" that has strong father figures and close relations with siblings and their extended families, they went to attract women in subtle cues that I was completely oblivious to, slayed pussy like there's no tomorrow, only recently I started to understand them now and trying to emulate them sadly (They already passed that stage, got married and have kids and careers in financing now).
I am 29 years old virgin guy that lives in conservative country, these stuff are making me angry, bitter and jealous right now, life isn't going as planned and as good as them for me, but trying to internalize as much as I can from reading the side bar and recommended books (48 laws of power for example, changed my outlook in life completely), but it isn't easy to push this alone when everyone around you against your change and want you to stay the "old" you.
Who are these "everyone around you"? Your single mom? You are a grown man, you don't have to listen to her any more. (said a female)
Nope, my family, it is traditional family structure here that values blood honor etc, can be good if the family is run by patriarchy, but a living hell if run by matriarchy (which is my case), with passive father.
Only way to gain their respect and rethink their choices is through finding a work as I am unemployed now, getting enough money to rent a humble apartment then I am off to go build my life, the plan is to soft next them and see what happens then will decide based on the results.
How can blood honour be good when "managed" by men, but not when "managed" by women? Genuinely curious.
In my case, the culture is patriarchal, so families run by men, I believe that's the natural order as well, women are incapable of leading as I have grown up with it and experienced it 1st hand.
These are the things I'm going to teach my son.
It's enough to be more than sound bite fluff. Everything doesn't have to be a twenty step guide for each bullet point.
Look I'm all for giving advice out to guys to make them better as men but this is just as bad as the typical "motivational quote" you see on Facebook or Reddit. Motivational words without any substance to guide men into actually taking them into action.
It's the equivalent of saying "Just be confident, bro". Okay. How do I be confident? Some men may read this post and take it all to heart and actually implement your advice but most will not. Men need someone to aim them in the right direction and then another to get them to follow. Once they start following then you let them go and let them learn from themselves. This post can aim them but now you need to show them how to follow through.
Otherwise the typical man reads this, gets motivated for about three days, then goes back to his routine of finding advice or answers to help him.
Exactly, single mothers tell you to be confident with words. Father's Show you how to be confident by actions.
Single mothers have to be both nurturers and bread-winners. Aren't they better at SHOWING their children how to survive than SAHMs?
Maybe, but a domineering single mother that is good at emasculating men (and is single because of this) will be terrible at raising sons.
So, here's the thing: not everything I write is going to be applicable to every guy. Older guys and guys who grew up with a father in the home can skip this thread. But I think you will see that it resonates with the target audience, so rather than come in and crap all over it because it doesn't apply to you, you might consider simply closing this thread and moving on to another one.
My expectation was that there would be further back and forth about application between younger guys and older guys in the comments. /shrugs
You missed my entire point. My point wasn't that it doesn't apply to me, my point was that the men who DO need this will read it, act on it for an hour, day, or maybe week and then forget all about it and go back to how they were. That's because you don't give any tangible steps on how to incorporate these principles into their personality and spirit. Very few men can change themselves entirely based off ideas or principles. They need action. Something to do to learn from.
My reasoning? I was one of those guys you describe in the post. I would read stuff like this all the time, get motivated for about a week and then go back to how I was looking for more advice/self-help/tips/guides/whatever. It wasn't until I actually sat down and took a step-by-step method to improve myself did my life change.
I'll say this again, most men need somewhere to aim and then someone to follow. You showed them where to aim. Now will you lead?
Or you can just get butt-hurt over my comment /shrugs
Look, I get that you would do things differently than I did. You are free to write your own top-level post. I used to be a teacher. I can write a long post about the twelve points I raised, but IME, it's going to be more practical to outline the frame work, let guys digest it, and then move though things in the comments. Let guys open up, share their own experiences, ask questions. When I was a teacher, I can tell you that some kids got the point right away, and other kids had to think it through. I'm writing for the second type of kid, the kid who had no role model, was taught to play it safe, was taught to be a momma's boy, etc. I chose to do it the way I did it on purpose.
That's, in part, what the comments section on this post is for. Or, as I say from time to time, anybody is free to message me at any time and if I can help, based on the situation and on a time-available basis, I will.
Lulz. The last thing I am is butthurt. If I was going to get all salty, you'd know. I'm quite happy with my life, etc., and I'm just here to help younger guys, like older guys helped me.
I think the problem - not your fault, just how it is - is that you don't learn this stuff by hearing it from your dad. You learn it through his example. So of course reading a list on a computer isn't going to be the same.
OP forgot to add take showers
I would say, speaking from experience, can challenge that. For myself, my own Father taught me the opposite of every single one of these EXCEPT for Life is Tough and Work Hard (he never said life was tough, but showed it, but he always said work hard and be smart). I would say even if you think you had a good Father, check with this list, and dont skip the list.
I don't think it's that bad. If you're on this subreddit and you've read the side bar (which you should have) this is only a reminder of principles that you should already be implementing.
I grew up with a rugby playing firefighter as my father figure and these were points he drove into me daily. Oddly enough, he never knew his dad. I would how ever add one thing to the list which is, Trust the guys you spend most your time with.
On a similar note... my life statements...
No one on their death bed regrets not working enough.
Just because you have an opinion it doesn't mean you're right.
Its easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone they've been fooled.
Winners are not people who never fail, but people who never quit.
I (female) would teach my son (or daughter) the same, except for loyalty. One should never be loyal to assholes just because he befriended them before they became assholes.
As for respect, I couldn't agree more. One has to EARN it. And here is what one guy said to me:
"Respect is given. It is something that those with a civilized upbringing extend to someone else until they have shown they do not deserve it. "You have to EARN my respect" is something a NaziFem says."
So much for masculinity...
Of course I would ALSO tell my son (daughter) that he (she) doesn't have to be respected by others in order to respect him/herself. Others' opinion about us doesn't have to be accurate.
This is the fake politicaly correct list of things Vasily's Father made for Western consumption. Luckily for you guys I have the real list made for internal consumption by real Russian men.
Russians Don't Surrender: Even if you lose and Americans make you pull your missiles out of Cuba you can always start some other bullshit in Vietnam, Angola, Nicaragua or by funding the Black Panthers. Be persistent keep starting bullshit.
Anglos Don't Negotiate Untill You Force Them To: Anglos are the most individualistic people on Earth and are more inclined to see things as a competition than other groups of people. Real negotiation begins only when you have leverage.
Exploit Their Short Short Attention Span: Americans are cowboys who like to run in shooting. They are not a Chess culture and you will have a considerable advantage in the long game. Start by arguing about insignificant things that you do not care about. Then once they are tired begin discussion of things of actual importance.
I'm only sharing parts of the real list with you guys because the Red Pill Paramilitary Boy Cult is instrumental in taking back Alaska.
русские не сдаються.. i was raised by single mom, but this is one thing she has beaten into my head since i was a young boy. can't count how many times just thinking that gave me the will to keep going on and get shit done
Yes but on the bright side you can learn more about masculinity strength and character from Russian Grandmother then apologetic western father. So I guess we are the lucky ones here.
my grandmother spent a decade in the gulag and she has accomplished so much in her life after that. taught me so many lessons. rip.
Not what I was taught. 'Russkie pogibayut no ne zdautsa' is what I was taught.
But your point stands.
Last time I checked this was the redpill. Not the redstar...
But I'm just going to assume you're trolling...
Nah, he's not trolling. He is right in his assessment.
dude, russian guys get cucked all the time by their women. i mean, isnt ur country full of teen prostitutes anyway?
No. Europe is full of Ukranian prostitutes. And Russian men do get cucked by their women, but not to the same extent as in Western Europe or America.
Was in Ukraine last summer. It was full of German men who go there for cheap food and hot, cheap women.
This. This is so true. Being told countless times by even loved ones, sometimes till the extent of being labelled as arrogant. Failed at times (at least I know I tried), and proved them wrong many other times. Even then, they still behave like crabs in a bucket. Used to going my own way, its a lonely path with few that understands. (mentally playing Sinatra's song now).
This is were things can get weird. I entirely hear what you're saying however, ignoring others, even loved ones to pursue what you want can make you social autistic. Need to keep balanced by keeping good people around you.
Not till the extent of being socially awkward that gets you alienated like what you've stated.
Truth is, the path towards success is mostly, if not always lonely. It requires discipline, absence of convenience for both mind and body... paths which not the large majority would wanna embark together with you.
I have many "friends" and "associates". But, only a handful of real people that I bother to keep in connections with. That alone is enough. No need to be a social flower.
I have grown up without father. Have readed tons of material on this topic since then and still, I needed this SO much. Thank you for sharing, Vasiliy!
One thing I would like to add is:
A successful person isn't someone who has never failed. A successful person is someone who has failed many, many times but succeeded once.
Too many people are too scared to take risks because they are afraid that they will fail. The people who really make it big in life are the ones who are willing to fail, learn from those failures, and keep trying until they make it.
Most people if they try at all they try once and give up the first time it doesn't work out.
I just recently told my son "You fail your way to success..."
Great post. As an older man, I can identify with these life lessons.
The onlty amendement I would make is;
Conditional Loyalty is Not a Character Flaw
In other words, loyalty like respect should be two way and earned. For example "vagina" does not equal unconditional loyalty.
My father took off when I was 12. I saw him about 5 times after that, total. (I had no idea that was not normal until I was in my 40s.)
At first I was happy as hell -- I could run amok, and I did.
Later, I got bitter about it; I think it was about the time I had to figure out how to fucking shave my face on my own. But I got over it, didn't have much anger toward him.
I had to figure all my life lessons on my own, by myself, with myself as judge and jury. It was brutal at times, but it also made me who I am.
To young guys reading this post: the best way is the hard way. You can't just read a list of advice and implement it and all's good. You're going to have to fuck up trying. So don't be afraid to try, and know you will fuck it up, one way or another.
Also, I agree with this list for the most part, but there's a little bit of moralizing at the end, the stuff about loyalty, keeping your word, respect, etc. I'm sorry, maybe it's because my background made me a hard guy, but my advice would include a lot more Machiavellian shit.
Don't be afraid to fucking lie sometimes.
Induce drama if you have to.
Some people deserve some backstabbing.
Not everyone begging for a lifeline gets one.
I anticipate a shitload of moralizing faggotry for that, but I'm telling it like it is.
No morality judgement here, just a clarification. As a young kid I learned to lie to survive with my mother. It was the only way and I actually got really good at it. Very sad. Took many years to figure out that was wrong and I, as an adult, was lying to everyone, even myself, all the time.
I will say instead "You don't always need to tell the truth". That has a different tone to it. You don't need to tell everyone your business, your issues, your weaknesses. You can not answer, or change the question.
But, yes, sometimes you will need to outright lie. But I feel its better to avoid the lie, if you can, if sometimes, by just omitting the truth.
Its an integrity and respect issue. I've lost complete respect for people who I knew were lying to me (company going bankrupt example), but had complete respect for people who knew, but couldn't tell me the truth, but would not lie to my face about it either.
Most excellent clarification, very much what I meant.
Things we do with words are speech acts, and they are just as real as actions we perform with our hands or anything else in the world. They can't be un-performed any more than any other actions. They can hurt or help. We do them for reasons.
And this example is an excellent distinction. Shitty little people lie for shitty little reasons, just as they do any of the other shitty little things they do.
I'm not going to do that to you. While I can disagree with your opinions, I can't disagree with your experience. On the whole I find it better to avoid drama, but if someone needs to be taken down, I'm all in on making sure they are never a problem again, etc.
I know that you know that I didn't expect it from YOU.
By the way, LOL at all the guys who are bagging on you for providing a list of advice but not doing the work for them. You were a teacher; I had a professor who used to say I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Thank you, even though you're getting shit I appreciate the post. My father wasn't around much especially during my teen years only to die when I was 16.... I never once heard one piece of advice on how to be a man. Even if the advice sounds gay af and nondescriptive.
Um. You had me up until this.
Well I mean everyone else was saying that lol. I didn't particularly think so
Yeah, this post wasn't one that applies to everyone, like my job interview ones, or how to get girls to admit that they secretly fantasize about being tied up, etc. It does seem to be resonating with the target audience, though - 90+ upvotes for a post that's been up a couple of hours and I made after Europe had gone to bed. It's reaching the guys I was trying to reach with it.
Mine: 1.Live your own life do not care how others live theirs and do not try to make them live like you
3.You have not walked in anothers man shoes so do not pretend you can judge them
you can succeed in many ways in life
Owning your own business and being your own boss is like nothing else out there but everyone has their own talents so try to find what makes you happy
Respect other people's religion
Have a family, having kids is one of the reasons life is worth living
Enjoy while you can
People's job, rank, family history, money, cars, does not mean anything
Be kind easy going and get along with people without compromising your principles
You need to read the sidebar and get to the gym.
Generous, no. You're seeking validation in the wrong place. Be generous for yourself or occasionally bro's or occasionally family.
You can and should judge others. Just don't be ridiculous about it. Here's an example, when you're at the club you need to judge quite a bit to calibrate and get laid and keep from getting the snot knocked out of you by others for making social faux pas.
Screw other people's religion. You don't have to judge it but you don't need to respect it either.
If family is what you live for, good luck.
A person's job isn't everything but it means quite a bit. Family history is insanely important.
Be kind and easy going, yeah, I might like to hire you so I can overwork your ass while I'm in cabo banging the sloots.
I think in your mind you are some sort of leo dicaprio in the wolf of wallstreet, you are a badass , fine go get them tiger, go fuck until your dick falls off and go be the CEO cause you are the shit
You can be too bro. And you know deep down you want it. You're just afraid to go for it. And you use morality and nice guy bullshit as a crutch to why you can't go and be the badass you want to be. Swallow the pill.
I think that was bill cosby's pick up line
I would change this;
money is there to be
spendwork for you.And I would say, be careful how you use generousity. This should mostly be for blood relations only.
I agree with /u/lopsidedlucky.
Being generous gets you no where, fast. A whole bunch of alphas would come along and just take it all from you, if they could.
The world revolves around money, and without it, you would die of starvation or lack of shelter. Your money determines your standard of living.
You need to use and manage your money wisely. If you really think you have enough to just give away, generously, you are mistaken. You should be putting all that extra money you don't need into market accounts so that you can use it to make more money and eventually retire on.
Sure, when I was young, I borrowed money from friends...and in return I let them borrow my truck, or my time. It was reciprocal, not generous.
Sorry, but no. Absolutely fucking not. I can not respect a murderous religion of hate. Not at all, no one should. Religions (in general) are about control and dominance. (I do not believe in religion, but I do believe in God).
Back in my Blue Pill days, I believed I needed to have a family. (and I did have 2 kids) Now...not so much. I can be single and be very happy and satisfied, and better off financially.
If you believe you must have children to be complete, you are going to loose both your family and your money very quickly... The odds are against you (divorce rates being so high).
Nope. You will only be taken advantage of by a bunch of alphas. Seriously.
Advice is just that obviously use reason and adapt it to your circumstance, it takes a strong man to be kind without being weak I just dont see the world divided in such black and white as that, alpha and beta to me that are invented and derived from a valuation coming from women or more precisely men so desperate of women's atention that they live their lifes by trying to fit into a made mold of alpha amd beta, I am a man, whatever else is in someone's mind about me does not matter
I did not say bow down to isis, I know muslims who are normal people thats what I mean
It still confuses me how I wound up being such a massive beta for so long. My dad used to drill all of these lessons into me nearly every opportunity he got. He's an amazing role model and is a highly successful guy. Somehow though I listened to all these lessons, watched him build his life by following these lessons, and still managed to not follow them. It's changing now, but damn I still ask questions about what the fuck I was thinking for most of my life from ages 13-21
It's a great list, I have to tell you.
I have one to add: know when and how to defy women and women's behavior. Only the strongest and just person will also teach you how to defend yourself against their ways. And they're surely not all strong or just.
But like my above addition, they're all goals that require years of training to do because they require little gradual steps into thoroughly understanding how it's done. Also, a medium to good dad will also teach you how to remain calm and tranquil while doing them.
If you can reach some of them by yourself, great. But most are more complicated to achieve than just a sentence uttered to yourself.
I would also like to add, taking responsibility for your actions when things go wrong.
If you or a member of your team/unit fucks up. Hold your hand up and say so. Then figure out how & why it happened and make sure it doesn’t occur again. This links heavily into earning respect & keeping your word. Too many people try to absolve themselves of the outcome of their own actions.
If something turns out well and you’re proud about it, don’t go shouting from the rooftops either. It makes you seem like a prick. If people compliment you on the work, achievements etc. Say thank you, analyse how you could improve the process or way of working for next time and apply.
For some reason I like the last one the most. Good post.
Being raised by a single mom made me truly despise women as the vile creatures they are. Luckily my dad was still in my life, but not having a role model man to mold myself after really fucked me up. And all because my mom was a whore who cheated on my dad when I was 2. How can I ever truly love or trust a women if my fundamental view of women is from that incident?
Absolutely agree with everything except "Loyalty is Not a Character Flaw." because it absolutely is. If someone who respects you stops, drop them. If someone you feel for abuses you, drop them. Always remember that the only necessity in your life is you. People will come and go - there's literally billions of them.
This also applies to a professional environment. Brand loyalty is a joke that your bosses want you to believe still exists so they can abuse your hard work for less pay. People who spend years and years with the same company will almost always make vastly less money, have fewer benefits, and less job satisfaction than mercenaries who jump on the best deal every 2-3 years, provided you're capable of demonstrating value (which is a skill everyone should learn and constantly hone for their personal lives anyway).
My Dad gave me great advice. It has helped and guided me all my life. Sometimes painfully.
Here is one of his golden nuggets of advice. "You're going to meet another asshole every day. Don't bitch to me about them. Learn how to deal with them."
Edit. One more item.
"You are responsible for 50% of every interaction you have with someone." Corelating to this one.. "If they didn't do what you asked, you didn't make yourself clear enough. It's partly your fault." Some very similar notions to Extreme Ownership by Jocko.
Thanks for sharing. Golden nugget indeed!
Waiting for this post from you Vasia
I finally forced myself to write it, because I'd mentioned it some time ago, and felt I owed it to some guys.
Vasya, how many Fashistyu did you snipe with this one post?
Just found this page, and this exact post and glad I did. Have always struggled being a beta male I guess. Raised by single mother, and oddly my brother is more alpha. Anywho people have called me a pushover I like to think I am just way to passive. I go with the flow, when shit foes wrong I shrug and find a way around it. I always feel deep in love with women like Instantly...always got hurt and thinking back I was like will smiths character from "Hitch" being that too nice of guy. Eventually joined the military have travled etc and met my wife who is an alpha female. Things were cool at first and after years of ups and downs it's apparent I have no respect from her or my kids....she says it, constantly throwing in my face the things I am not doing as a dad or man and that I should be. It makes me angry 1. That she says that, and 2. Why my momma raise a pussy. I try on a daily basis to assert myself at work or in general and I always revert back to the yes ma'am yes sir, etc the genuine nice guy in which nothing bothers. I'm tired of this, tired of being down on myself for not being "that" guy. What do I do? No matter what male I talk to or what speech I listen too I cannot find answers. I get down on myself for thinking because my dad wasn't there I'm hurting my son by not knowing shit....either way just looking for words, any honestly. I use booze to calm my nerves and anxiety about it all and it doesn't help much just makes my wife think I'm a drunk too. Where do I start? How do I transition power in the house, at work and just in everyday life? Thx all
How do you start? Pick just one thing every day to stand up to your woman over. Change your behavior slowly, and pick small things to start. She doesn't like the shirt you're wearing? If the old you would have changed the shirt, then the new you should not - that's obviously just an example but hopefully you get the idea.
I had a stepdad who was an abusive loser and couldn't stand up to my mom... slowly learning though, 41 and been single for 14(!!) years. That's the amount of work I needed to do, and i still have so much more ahead of me.
Getting there, one day at a time. I am happy that I can finally explore what manhood is...
Fuck, I'm going to live in another country to continue my med studies. Sometimes when I get fucking tired after training, the thought gets to me and makes me anxious and kinda scared. It's funny because I've done some crazy shit before in my life but this is different. This post helps, thanks!
You'll be just fine. I've lived in 8 different countries. Some I liked more than others. It will take you a few months to get to grips with how things work. Have fun and good luck!
These are definitely things I had to learn on my own. The lack of guidance I had forced me to make these a part of my core beliefs and character.
I have had huge issues with this in my life. Dad divorced my mum when I was young and wasn't around a ton honestly. Never was around for the difficult stuff.
Fast forward to 19, picked up a drug habit with a coworker who I saw as a "father figure". Realized that he was a terrible role model, but stuck to the drugs. When deep in a cycle of drug use, you don't have the time or energy to grow. So I didn't. Now I am 25, 36 days clean and finally starting to grow again.
Now part of a group of sober responsible men who I hope will help lead me through. Just got to keep putting work in and hitting that gym. Thanks for the post.
Happy to help. One day at a time, brah, one day at a time.
That last one is the best one.
Good post. My father told me much of the same things your father told you, though it came to me after I was isolated with my mother.
Thanks a lot bud. That helps.
I was raised by a single mom and never had any issues implementing any of the above. What is the implication in thread title?
It's pretty clear that men and women are different, the implication is that women have a hard time teaching men what they need to know to be as set for success in life as they could be.
There's a very clear statistical correlation between single parenting and a ton of bad consequences such as mental illness, likelihood of going to prison, likelihood of being abusive, etc..
I wonder if it's not because lots of poor quality women - to put it lightly - become single mothers. I mean, just because you don't have a dad doesn't put you at risk of becoming a thug or going mad.
Yeah it's impossible to say and that's the downside of correlations studies. It is a fact though that the #1 thing prisoners have in common is single parents. One could also argue that they're shit parents and that's why they're single, you never really know.
People in prison also have below average IQs which almost always means their parents did too.
But it's like saying that marijuana is bad BECAUSE most drug addicts started with smoking pot. But how many marijuana users ended up with harder drugs? - one might ask. The same goes with single mothers: how many of them raise criminals?
You mean, shit PARTNERS?
Are you suggesting criminals are statistically less intelligent or only those who got caught?
Lol you seem to get really angry when I'm saying that this is basically the problem with correlative studies, there are too many variables.
I think the more important question is why are there so few people in prison that had both parents raising them? It's not a bad question, but I feel it deflects more than anything.
I believe these to be the same thing, when you raise a child you do it together and if you can't work with you're partner, that you chose, then you're also a shitty parent. I can understand why many would disagree and I'm aware there are exceptions.
Lol, what? Yes, people in prison are dumber than average people. What are you even getting at here? People in prison are representative of all people who do crime, the people who don't get caught are usually just lucky.
You're an exception. I'm happy for you. Not every guy is.
Ex. I work with a musician on the west coast from time to time - I sit in with his band, etc. So I handled a negotiation for them once and he commented on how easy it was for me. There's a bit more to the story, but it was basically the difference between having a dad (me) and not having a dad (him).
Did your mother provide for you or did you find a quality male role model that you were able to learn these things from? It is important that kids, especial if that don't have a father, have others to teach them. Sports coaches, older siblings/relatives, or other friend's fathers.
I was an only child raised by a single mom that worked a lot. My father was in and out of my life but large gaps of time passed where I didn't see him. He was a nomad of sorts. My grandfather and uncle were like surrogate fathers to me, in the sense that they'd come to my games, practices, help my mom in giving me rides places, babysitting, etc. but they didn't talk to me about 'the birds and the bees'.
Everything I learned about social settings, personal finance, women, etc. was learned through observing others and trial and error. I was a late bloomer and very immature when I was in high school/college, but I learned to grow past that and am in a good place today (just turned 30). I don't think my father would've been a great influence to me anyway, had he been more involved in my life, because he also was extremely immature and unstable. Although he was a womanizer and probably would've taught me a lot about women at an earlier age, if that's important.
thanks uncle V, your presence on TRP is invaluable. i wasnt fatherless, but my dad is a big time beta in some regards.
I'll add to this, from my dad.
Learn to take the blame.
You're going to have fuck ups in life, and when you do fuck up, own it. Admit it. Everyone hates hearing excuses and you lose respect when you make them. Just admitting to it lets everyone move on from it.
To Add you most likely have a Chad's DNA. This list would be more important to step kids raised by Beta Bucks.
Amendment: For those who didn't have hard-ass dads, I would add this:
Drive: If they haven't made you eager to get out of the house the instant you finish high school, they have coddled you to the point where you have no drive. My step father taught me very little, but he made me watch the calendar, counting the days till I could move out.
You have to fight your old man to be a man: Not sure if this is a lesson per se, or the best way to learn it. But theres that point when you realize you have lost your safety net (theres always a man above you that you can rely on if things get bad) that you learn to kill your risk aversion that every woman in your life drills into you from birth.
Not so much lessons they get the 'attaboy' for teaching me, but they were valuable nonetheless
Loved it all, except the Columbus finding America bit. Overall great post.
How do you write in electrons?
This is a great post, brief and on point. It also applies to people like me. Even though I have a father, and he was always around he never played any role in my life. He never taught me to be a man or what a man is. I discovered my full potential only 4-5 years ago (29 now). He would get drunk every day, beat my mom when she wanted him to change, cheat on her, call me names when he was mad for no reason. He never taught me any of what you listed. I had to learn the hard way. Just because of him, I don't smoke, don't smoke, I work a lot, I learned myself what it takes to be the real man! Whenever I would do something, he would tell me right away: "that won't work" or "you can't do that". Don't let anyone dictate what you can and cannot do. Better yourself every day, this sub is not just for getting laid, I see tons of useful information that people can utilize to better themselves in any aspect of their life.
Great post. The stuff a kid needs a dad for.
My father taught me: Everyone is corrupt and will try to fuck you over.
Also to never fight, always duck and cover. In a literal fight or if you have problems. But if you can cheat and trick a way out.
And everything else I had to figure out myself. Great.
Do / did you agree with what he taught you?
Agreed with everything until a cigarette. If you don't understand it, you probably never will. Sometimes you just have to smoke one
I'm not being critical of smokers, but given the health effects, the expense, and the addictive nature, it's better to forego. Cigs may be awesome for smokers but if I never understand it, I'm totally cool with that.
it's not that they're awesome for smokers. Most of the time when I have a cig sober they're disgusting. I view it more as an acknowledgement of our mortality, regardless of smoking or not. People that view it otherwise are just scared of it in my opinion
Some people jump out of airplanes for the same reason. I look at cigs and say, "The downside isn't worth whatever the reward is." /shrugs
Sounds like you don't know what the fuck you're talking about
Am Psychol. 1999 Oct;54(10):817-20. Does cigarette smoking cause stress?
Depends on how much you smoke and how long you can go without one. Smoking does relieve stress, saying that smokers are more stressed doesn't change that. A cig will still calm you down and settle your head after something has stressed you out.
Smoking cigarettes is not a problem, because when it becomes one you just quit. Unless you can't because you're a little bitch with no willpower.
Dude, you can't call people bitches for being addicted to smoking. Its been proven by science that nicotine is addictive, and most people will need a plan to get off of it.
And...if you are following Red Pill philosophy, you are working out at the gym anyways... and smoking and working out don't mix.
So, yea, smoking is a problem in the Red Pill world...
You can use willpower to overcome obstacles, to defeat demons in your mind. That's the whole point of getting strong.
Too tired to work out? Just go work out
Too tired to get up early for work? Just get up early, you can do it.
Too addicted to cigarettes to quit? Just stop smoking cigarettes, one day at a time. Literally the only thing you have to do is not smoke cigarettes.